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Author: Subject: Police acted stupidly

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 09:22 AM
None of us were there, nor was Obama, so why is he saying the police acted stupidly? I thought the President commenting on this was inappropriate. There are three sides to every story and apparently he is taking the side of his friend. He even admits that he is biased. If this cop is such a racist, why was he giving Reggie Lewis mouth to mouth back in 1993?


(CNN) -- President Obama said that police in Cambridge, Massachusetts, "acted stupidly" in arresting a prominent black Harvard professor last week after a confrontation at the man's home.

"I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played," Obama said Wednesday night while taking questions after a White House news conference.

Cambridge authorities dropped disorderly conduct charges against Henry Louis Gates Jr. on Tuesday.

Obama defended Gates on Wednesday night, while admitting that he may be "a little biased," because Gates is a friend.

"But I think it's fair to say, No. 1, any of us would be pretty angry; No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, No. 3 ... that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately."

The incident, Obama said, shows "how race remains a factor in this society."
The mayor of Cambridge said she is going to meet with the city's police chief to make sure the scenario that caused Gates' arrest does not happen again.

"This suggests that something happened that should not have happened," Mayor E. Denise Simmons said on CNN's "American Morning." "The situation is certainly unfortunate. This can't happen again in Cambridge." Watch how the mayor plans to handle the situation

Gates said Simmons called him to apologize.

He told CNN on Wednesday that although charges had been dropped, he will keep the issue alive.

"This is not about me; this is about the vulnerability of black men in America," Gates told CNN's Soledad O'Brien. Have race relations improved since Obama's election?

Gates said he'd be prepared to forgive the arresting officer "if he told the truth" about what the director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research said were "fabrications" in the police report.


The officer, Sgt. James Crowley, told CNN affiliate WCVB earlier Wednesday that he will not apologize.

"There are not many certainties in life, but it is for certain that Sgt. Crowley will not be apologizing," he said.

Gates said the mayor of Cambridge, Massachusetts, called him to apologize about the incident, in which he was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct.
CNN could not confirm Wednesday night that an apology was made. Cambridge Mayor E. Denise Simmons did not respond to requests by CNN for comment.

Crowley wrote in the Cambridge police report that Gates refused to step outside to speak with him, the police report said, and when Crowley told Gates that he was investigating a possible break-in, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed, "Why, because I'm a black man in America?" the report said.

The report said Gates initially refused to show the officer identification, but eventually produced a Harvard identification card, prompting Crowley to radio for Harvard University Police.

"While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence, I was quite surprised and confused with the behavior he exhibited toward me," Crowley said, according to the report.

Gates was arrested for "loud and tumultuous behavior in a public space" and was released from police custody after spending four hours at the police station.

He said Wednesday that he and his lawyers were considering further actions, not excluding a lawsuit.


Gates said that although the ordeal had upset him, "I would do the same thing exactly again."

Earlier this week, a prosecutor dropped the charge against Gates and the city's police department recommended that the matter not be pursued.


 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 09:25 AM
quote:
No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home


I think that puts it quite well.

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 09:29 AM
OK, a man is in his house, shows his ID that proves this is his house. Police leaves. See, that would be acting intelligently. Sometimes cops act stupidly and should be called out when they do.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 09:31 AM
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



I think that puts it quite well.


Does this mean no one can be arrested in their own home if they are being loud and tumultuous?

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 09:33 AM
quote:
OK, a man is in his house, shows his ID that proves this is his house. Police leaves. See, that would be acting intelligently. Sometimes cops act stupidly and should be called out when they do.


And sometimes people do, by saying provactive, idiotic things, like Gates allegedly did.

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 09:35 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



I think that puts it quite well.


Does this mean no one can be arrested in their own home if they are being loud and tumultuous?


Knock on my door and accuse me of breaking into my own home when I can easily prove it's my house and I'd be loud and tumultuous too. What, you'd happily put your hands behind your back and say "you're so right, officer! Arrest me!"

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 09:44 AM
quote:
Knock on my door and accuse me of breaking into my own home when I can easily prove it's my house and I'd be loud and tumultuous too. What, you'd happily put your hands behind your back and say "you're so right, officer! Arrest me!"


If you are belligerent with cops, you should probably expect to be arrested, black, white, green, purple or whatever.

How about the cops show up, they ask for id, you present id, thank them for their diligent response and their service. Now that would be the appropriate response. Instead the response was are you doing this because you're a white cop and I'm a black man in america?

If it was you, you would be loud and belligerent? Why, because they were initially responding to help you?

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 09:50 AM
Righteuos indignation is the correct response to someone hassling you in your own home. If that is an arrestable offense I doubt they would have dropped the charges. Sounds like the cop was suffering from roid rage and he was unable to control his temper and acted stupidly. It happens all the time. Gates was lucky he did not get tasered repeatedly. Some cops act stupidly, I don't see how that can be contested. It is a simple fact.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 09:55 AM
quote:
quote:
No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home


I think that puts it quite well.


Well, hang on a minute... if he broke the law in some way, it doesnt matter if he is in his home or not. Not being familiar with this case, I dont want to say much more other than Obama shouldnt be commenting on this issue at all at this point.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 10:02 AM
quote:
Well, hang on a minute... if he broke the law in some way, it doesnt matter if he is in his home or not. Not being familiar with this case, I dont want to say much more other than Obama shouldnt be commenting on this issue at all at this point.


Hey, stop agreeing with me!!

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 10:11 AM
I'm going to side with Jim here. When I was a teen, my best friend's father was a former cop. His advice to us, if you get into trouble, or are questioned by the police, be respectful, be obedient and keep your smart ass comments to yourself. His reasoning: the cops would go easier on us if we did, and if we were in real trouble, if the cop told the prosecutors we were difficult, he wouldn't be able to get us out of the mess.

That advice has served me well in the last 30 years. I'm a hotheaded Italian that thinks he's always right (as anyone who reads my posts here can attest). I have an unhealthy dislike for authority and being told what to do. It's nearly impossible to follow this advice, but I do. The one time I didn't led to the only time I was arrested, and I'm no angel.

Whether you think the police are justified in their actions is IRRELEVANT. In that situation, they have the power and the control. This professor is a man with means and friends in high places. He was released and he'll probably sue. Most people don't have those attributes and wind up spending money and time they don't have to beat charges they could have avoided by eating a little crow. Remember, the cop decides if you're arrested and that in and of itself is a royal pain in the ass.

I'll reiterate the former policeman's advice to anyone who'll listen "Say 'sir', be polite, do what you're told and DON'T MOUTH OFF".

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 10:54 AM
I'm surprised that Obama made the comment about the police "acted stupidly", especially since he admiits he didn't have all the facts. I might expect such a comment from Al Sharpton and/or Jesse Jackson, but the President of the United States? And from what I understand, the police were responding to a "possible break-in", and seems to me that Gates was the one that "acted stupidly" with his racially charged comment " "Why, because I'm a black man in America?" and his behavior toward the officer in general. Truth, if any of us had behaved in such a manner, towards a police office, chances are we also would be arrested for " disorderly conduct". Race has nothing to do with this incident, and more to do with Gates acting like an ass.

[Edited on 7/23/2009 by sibwlkr]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 10:55 AM
quote:
I'm going to side with Jim here. When I was a teen, my best friend's father was a former cop. His advice to us, if you get into trouble, or are questioned by the police, be respectful, be obedient and keep your smart ass comments to yourself. His reasoning: the cops would go easier on us if we did, and if we were in real trouble, if the cop told the prosecutors we were difficult, he wouldn't be able to get us out of the mess.

That advice has served me well in the last 30 years. I'm a hotheaded Italian that thinks he's always right (as anyone who reads my posts here can attest). I have an unhealthy dislike for authority and being told what to do. It's nearly impossible to follow this advice, but I do. The one time I didn't led to the only time I was arrested, and I'm no angel.

Whether you think the police are justified in their actions is IRRELEVANT. In that situation, they have the power and the control. This professor is a man with means and friends in high places. He was released and he'll probably sue. Most people don't have those attributes and wind up spending money and time they don't have to beat charges they could have avoided by eating a little crow. Remember, the cop decides if you're arrested and that in and of itself is a royal pain in the ass.

I'll reiterate the former policeman's advice to anyone who'll listen "Say 'sir', be polite, do what you're told and DON'T MOUTH OFF".


This is really good advice. During the traffic stop, criminal investigation, etc. whatever it is, is no time to debate with the officer over whether you think they are wrong or you are right etc. Your best bet is to be a good observer. Get names and badge numbers. Ensure you have correct times and dates and sequence of events. Every department has either an internal affairs section or office of professional standards and integrity. Contact them and present your facts. If the officer did something against the law or their department policy, they will be punished, but it requires YOU the complainant to make the effort to file the complaint and follow through with the requests from the internal affairs section. Typically this might involve you going in and making an official statement or even taking a lie detector test. If you are not willing to do this, they will not give your complaint much consideration. All that said, when Ive dealt with people that were hostile, unfriendly etc. their behavior, rightly or wrongly absolutely influenced any decision to 'cut them a break' etc. If you act like a dickhead to me, Im going to be far less inclined to let you go with a warning rather than hooking you up for the warrants you have or something else. Some people get it, others dont. Interestingly enough, the people that have usually had the worst time of it (prison, repeated trips to jail etc.) are usually the ones that are the easiest to deal with. Ill take doing an investigation with a hard core con over some street kid any day of the week. They understand the relationship between the officer and themselves and if you are just doing your job, they know that too. Start messing with them for no reason and its going to get ugly. Bottomline is that if you cooperate, you have less of a chance of having problems.

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 10:59 AM
quote:
I'm surprised that Obama made the comment about the police "acted stupidly", especially since he admiits he didn't have all the facts. I might expect such a comment from Al Sharpton and/or Jesse Jackson, but the President of the United States? And from what I understand, the police were responding to a "possible break-in", and seems to me that Gates was the one that "acted stupidly" with his racially charged comment " "Why, because I'm a black man in America?" and his behavior toward the officer in general. Truth, if any of us had behaved in such a manner, towards a police office, chances are we also would be arrested for " disorderly conduct". Race has nothing to do with this incident, and more to do with Gates acting like an ass.

[Edited on 7/23/2009 by sibwlkr]


As much as I disagree with you, Fred, it pains me to have to agree with you here.

Seriously though, you are absolutely right. As I understand it, there were also black officers present at the arrest so the issue of race goes right out the window maybe? Anyway, its almost a given that if you are arresting an African American down here, that you might get an accusation that you are only doing it because "Im black".

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 11:11 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home


I think that puts it quite well.


Well, hang on a minute... if he broke the law in some way, it doesnt matter if he is in his home or not. Not being familiar with this case, I dont want to say much more other than Obama shouldnt be commenting on this issue at all at this point.


agreed. or at any point. I think this has to do with the dude being a Harvard prof more than anything but Obama really shouldn't be commenting on a civic affair, at least not this one. If it were some heinous act the cops did, then yeah but not this.

Is this a priority for Obama on national tv?

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 11:14 AM
Appears from this interview, the officer acted in an apporiate manner.

quote:
The police officer responded to the charges on radio in Boston today. From the Boston Globe:

\\. . .This morning on WEEI, Crowley spoke for 22 minutes and offered his most detailed public explanation of why he handcuffed the renowned professor of African-American studies.

"He was arrested after following me outside the house, continuing the tirade, even after being warned multiple times, probably a few more times than the average person would have gotten," Crowley said.

The hosts asked: "How many times?

"He was cautioned in the house, meaning calm down, lower your voice," Crowley said. "Once we got outside in front of the general public and the police officers that were assembled there, two warnings, the second warning with me holding a set of handcuff in my hand. It was something I really didn't want to do, but the professor at any point in time could have resolved the issue by quieting down and or going back in his house."

Crowley continued, "There are so many things in this incident that keep me scratching my head wondering. I apologize, I was not aware who professor Gates was. And when I read the name off the card, it wasn't like I said, 'Oh, Wow, that's Professor Gates.' I'm still just amazed that somebody of his level of intelligence could stoop to such a level and berate me, accuse of being a racist, of racial profiling, and speaking about my mother. It's just beyond words."

During the interview, the radio hosts made it clear how they felt about the arrest of Gates, telling Crowley that he did not "have to defend your character here because there is no reason to, you didn't do anything wrong."

"God knows the public is supporting you," one of the hosts said. "Maybe not the elites, maybe not the President of the United States, but the reaction on message boards, the reaction on talk shows, and just people on the street -- they are on your side, officer, you can be sure of that."//

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 11:16 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home


I think that puts it quite well.


Well, hang on a minute... if he broke the law in some way, it doesnt matter if he is in his home or not. Not being familiar with this case, I dont want to say much more other than Obama shouldnt be commenting on this issue at all at this point.


agreed. or at any point. I think this has to do with the dude being a Harvard prof more than anything but Obama really shouldn't be commenting on a civic affair, at least not this one. If it were some heinous act the cops did, then yeah but not this.

Is this a priority for Obama on national tv?


Well, I think what it does is open the door for there to be more comments in the future, or lack of comments. Meaning, since he saw fit to open his mouth about this issue, why not every other questionable police act that makes it to the news?

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 11:18 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home


I think that puts it quite well.


Well, hang on a minute... if he broke the law in some way, it doesnt matter if he is in his home or not. Not being familiar with this case, I dont want to say much more other than Obama shouldnt be commenting on this issue at all at this point.


agreed. or at any point. I think this has to do with the dude being a Harvard prof more than anything but Obama really shouldn't be commenting on a civic affair, at least not this one. If it were some heinous act the cops did, then yeah but not this.

Is this a priority for Obama on national tv?


Well, I think what it does is open the door for there to be more comments in the future, or lack of comments. Meaning, since he saw fit to open his mouth about this issue, why not every other questionable police act that makes it to the news?


...or every act of racism...

there isn't enough time in the day.

racism will never...ever, end.

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 11:41 AM
So as I understand it, it's perfectly fine for cops to walk into your house and accuse you of breaking into your own house, and if you get upset about it, you deserve to be arrested....and there is absolutely no way at all that this particular officer in no way acted inappropriately because, after all, he said he didn't. If that's the case, why did they drop the charges?

From reading the details, it was 12:30 in the afternoon, and a bespectacled 60 year old man wearing a blue blazer and sporting a cane, at his own front door with luggage was having some difficulty opening his front door, so his white lady neighbor called the cops. Gee, that sure fits the appearance of a burglar profile to me. Also, and in case this is wrong I'll recant, but the cops didn't knock. They walked right in.

Wow. And they call liberals communists. I really don't feel like getting into an argument with anyone, so, I'll have to be in the minority and simply disagree.

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 12:04 PM
Just so Im clear, I think that this officer was completely in the wrong based on what we know so far.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 12:13 PM
quote:
So as I understand it, it's perfectly fine for cops to walk into your house and accuse you of breaking into your own house,


The neighbor called the cops because the neighbor thought there was a break in, in progress. Then, this happened...allegedly:

quote:
"He was cautioned in the house, meaning calm down, lower your voice," Crowley said. "Once we got outside in front of the general public and the police officers that were assembled there, two warnings, the second warning with me holding a set of handcuff in my hand. It was something I really didn't want to do, but the professor at any point in time could have resolved the issue by quieting down and or going back in his house."




quote:
a bespectacled 60 year old man wearing a blue blazer and sporting a cane, at his own front door with luggage was having some difficulty opening his front door, so his white lady neighbor called the cops.


Ted Bundy use to walk around with a fake broken arm and was well dressed. He must be innocent because he was well dressed and had an ailment....allegedly?

Why do you describe the woman as white, but Gates as a bespecled man? Why is race being injected into this. Its absurd.

quote:
If that's the case, why did they drop the charges?


Because the whole thing was obviously a misunderstanding. The issue is that Gates is out there saying the guy is a racist, when in actuality, the guy is not. If the cop apologizes, its an admission that he was acting in a racist manner as Gates claims. He wasn't. It was a misunderstanding.


For someone who always wants to hear all the facts before commenting, I was very surprised that the President commented at all on it, but then again, he is biased because Gates is his friend.









 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 12:15 PM
quote:
quote:
OK, a man is in his house, shows his ID that proves this is his house. Police leaves. See, that would be acting intelligently. Sometimes cops act stupidly and should be called out when they do.


And sometimes people do, by saying provactive, idiotic things, like Gates allegedly did.


Exactly. He was not arrested for being black or breaking into his own house. He was arrested for behaving like a horse's ass.

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 12:28 PM


[Edited on 7/23/2009 by SquatchTexas]

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 12:37 PM
quote:
The neighbor called the cops because the neighbor thought there was a break in, in progress. Then, this happened...allegedly:



Can you honestly say that him standing in front of his own house having difficulty with the door, older man, luggage, CANE...you would call the cops too?

quote:
Ted Bundy use to walk around with a fake broken arm and was well dressed. He must be innocent because he was well dressed and had an ailment....allegedly?


Unbelieveable. Truly.

quote:
Why do you describe the woman as white, but Gates as a bespecled man? Why is race being injected into this. Its absurd.


Because I firmly believe that if the man were white, she would not have called the cops.

quote:
Because the whole thing was obviously a misunderstanding. The issue is that Gates is out there saying the guy is a racist, when in actuality, the guy is not. If the cop apologizes, its an admission that he was acting in a racist manner as Gates claims. He wasn't. It was a misunderstanding.



A misunderstanding. Accused of breaking into his own home, arrested, booked, mug shotted, everything. A misunderstanding. Go Gestapo!

 

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  posted on 7/23/2009 at 12:38 PM
I hope gates gets a good settlement from the law suit. howdya like them apples, grand wizard arby!.
 
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