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Author: Subject: I'm disapointed

Zen Peach





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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:03 PM
I'm a firm believer that if we really want change we have to have a third party, be it the Libertarian, Constitution, Green or some other party.

looking at the results in the paper, my precinct with over 1000 people voting for president only three did not vote for either McCain or Obama. Only two other people besides me had the real commitment to change and voted for someone whose party isn't deep into the pockets of PACs and lobbyists

I don't think we will ever have any real change

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:06 PM
I know how you feel

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:07 PM
I am not opposed to a third party, but it is going to take political leadership that has yet to rise to the surface on the national level.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:08 PM
I was wondering what the total popular third party vote tally would be. Are there any national figures yet ?

Since I'm from NY and it was a no brainer for Obama, I voted for Bob Barr. I figured if an impressive number of third party votes came up, there would be more dialouge about this. I don't feel the Repubs or Dems represent the middle class.

If I lived in a swing a state, I would of voted Obama.

[Edited on 11/5/2008 by tommars]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:08 PM
Being involved and active in a political party is pretty hard work...and most of it is volunteer time. I would think that getting a third party off the ground would be a massive project.

However, regardless of where you stand on yesterday's result, it's obvious that the Obama campaign's mastery of the internet was/is nothing short of breathtaking. There's a lesson there - I don't know what the cyber term for "grassroots" is, but a third party with an organized internet arm could really make some noise.

Also, as this election also showed with both Obama and Palin, good ol' star power doesn't hurt either.

I think a third party could really take off, but a whole bunch of somebodies have to actually go out and do it.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:11 PM
Obama's first major appointment represents anything but "change." Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of Staff? Way to think out of the box there, Barack..

Geeze.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:13 PM
I voted for a party other then the Republicans or Democrats.

I wish people didn't have the idea that their vote wouldn't be worth anything if they didn't pick one of those two parties. Showing independence of thought and supporting your ideas against opposition is at the very center being American, even if you don't win (or maybe especially if you don't win). It would actually make me feel un-American to choose to vote that way.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:15 PM
I think a third party will emerge when a national political figure with a lot of money, (Bloomberg?) decides to run as 3rd party with a platform that appeals to the middle. However, to succeed, I think will take a crisis - for example, the crushing weight of the federal budget and national debt drives taxes to a truly uncomfortable level and the platform calls for a radical downsizing of government, with moderate, centrist policies in all other areas. Beholden to neither the right or the left, the silent majority has its day.

This would have been a great election for something like that to occur, two very weak candidates, poor approval ratings for Bush and Congress, two wars, a domestic economic mess.....conditions were SO right this time around, we just didn't have the candidate.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:20 PM
quote:
Obama's first major appointment represents anything but "change." Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of Staff? Way to think out of the box there, Barack..

Geeze.


The fellow who said, "The Republicans can go f-ck themselves"? Wow, what a demonstration of bipartisan unity.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:21 PM
quote:
quote:
Obama's first major appointment represents anything but "change." Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of Staff? Way to think out of the box there, Barack..

Geeze.


Why would Obama, or any President for that matter, want someone "outside of the box" to be his Chief Of Staff?


Exactly my point. How is this symbolic of anything "different?" How many Republicans do you think will be on his Cabinet?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:42 PM
the point missed by the republican/democratic bickering mob, is that there is no real difference between
republicans and democrats. It s just the same old network of K street crooks.

I don't expect to see a lot of K street lawyers and lobbyists closing up shop today.

Barak is no different than Bush or Clinton because its the same corporate lobbyists and lawyers that
run the show in DC.

Barak has not shown any effort to step away from this crowd and this chief of staff appoints just confirms it.


But I'll reserve final judgement until we see his cabinette appointees





[Edited on 11/5/2008 by spacemonkey]

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:47 PM
quote:


Barak is no different than Bush or Clinton because its the same corporate lobbyists and lawyers that
run the show in DC.

Barak has not shown any effort to step away from this crowd and this chief of staff appoints just confirms it.

[Edited on 11/5/2008 by spacemonkey]


But, but, but... I thought he was all about the "change"? I thought things are supposed to be different? He hasn't even been president-elect for 24 hours and already you're apologizing for him?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:48 PM
keep the faith

Nader Blog today

quote:
Against all odds.

We prevailed.

On $4 million total what Obama raised in one day.

Nader/Gonzalez overcame ballot access obstacles.

We put our shift the power agenda on 45 state ballots.

We set the world record for campaigning in 21 towns and cities in 24 hours during our Massachusetts Marathon.

We exposed Obama and Biden for the corporate politicians they are.

(And today, ABC News is reporting that Obama wants the militarist reactionary Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff.)

We drew the line.

And together, we choose to make a stand.

You stood with hundreds of thousands of Americans.

Against the corporate militaristic machine.

Our consciences are clear.

Our hands are clean.

We made the moral choice.

History will look back and say those Americans back in 2008 who supported Nader/Gonzalez they were right.

So, thank you fellow traveler.

Thank you for your donations.

And your hard work.

It has been a joy standing with you.

Fighting for justice.

Onward

The Nader Team

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:49 PM
quote:
the point missed by the republican/democratic bickering mob, is that there is no real difference between
republicans and democrats. It s just the same old network of K street crooks.



[Edited on 11/5/2008 by spacemonkey]


Thank you John.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:49 PM
quote:
Obama's first major appointment represents anything but "change." Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of Staff? Way to think out of the box there, Barack..

Geeze.


I hear Sarah Palin is available...

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 03:55 PM
quote:
Obama's first major appointment represents anything but "change." Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of Staff? Way to think out of the box there, Barack..

Geeze.


Who was he supposed to pick? Rush Limbaugh? It's Chief of Staff for Christ's sake. Did Drudge also happen to mention that the Obama team has already approached Secretary Gates about staying on for a year or so? Colin Powell is being tossed around as a name for SecEd, Chuck Hagel is being discussed, talk about Geeze. How about you actually let the guy do something before you spend the next four years ripping the $hit out of everything he does? The endless cycle continues...

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 04:08 PM
quote:
quote:


Barak is no different than Bush or Clinton because its the same corporate lobbyists and lawyers that
run the show in DC.

Barak has not shown any effort to step away from this crowd and this chief of staff appoints just confirms it.

[Edited on 11/5/2008 by spacemonkey]


But, but, but... I thought he was all about the "change"? I thought things are supposed to be different? He hasn't even been president-elect for 24 hours and already you're apologizing for him?



how stupid are you Mr Troll,
I have never supported barak obama so why would I apologize?. you have no clue.

this thread is about the lack of a viable third party, yet you can't help but attack obama.
even to the point of attacking one of his critics as an apologist.

go away, find a new hobby, the election is over.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 04:11 PM
quote:


this thread is about the lack of a viable third party, yet you can't help but attack obama.
even to the point of attacking one of his critics as an apologist.



Hmmn. I never took from your posts that you don't support BarryO. If I'm wrong I apologize.

As for attacking BarryO, he can't be attacked enough. Those who enabled this travesty will have much to answer for in years to come.

 

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As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 04:20 PM
quote:
quote:


this thread is about the lack of a viable third party, yet you can't help but attack obama.
even to the point of attacking one of his critics as an apologist.



Hmmn. I never took from your posts that you don't support BarryO.


because that would actually require thinking instead of just playing attack obama
in every thread on the board.

don't apologise, just go away, Troll

your fake apology fools no one.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 06:37 PM
quote:
I'm a firm believer that if we really want change we have to have a third party, be it the Libertarian, Constitution, Green or some other party.

looking at the results in the paper, my precinct with over 1000 people voting for president only three did not vote for either McCain or Obama. Only two other people besides me had the real commitment to change and voted for someone whose party isn't deep into the pockets of PACs and lobbyists

I don't think we will ever have any real change


I agree in theory. The change will come when one of the big 2 are overtaken by a third party. We must have a clear majority in elections.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 06:40 PM
quote:
We must have a clear majority in elections.
I don't agree with this. but it does make people more comfortable I suppose.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 06:47 PM
"I am not opposed to a third party, but it is going to take political leadership that has yet to rise to the surface on the national level."

Bullseye. This is one of the 2 or 3 times a year that Derek and I agree on something.

I don't mind opening up the American political system to third parties, but Bob Barr? Really? I'm supposed to get excited about voting for Bob Barr? Ron Paul should have stayed in the Libertarian Party instead of wasting a bunch of money and time with the GOP. If he had, he might have been able to shake things up in this election.

As for Nader, I worked for two of his many organizations, and while I respect his accomplishments as a public advocate, trust me when I say he is the last person you would want to run the country. He is very inflexible, combative and ego-driven, and tends to see everything as "my way or the highway." You're either with me, or against me.

We've had more than enough of that personality type in the White House, in my opinion.

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 06:53 PM
quote:
quote:
We must have a clear majority in elections.
I don't agree with this. but it does make people more comfortable I suppose.


I would like to see 2 or more viable alternative parties, so that no one gets a majority to run whatever they want through.


compromise and cooperative measures by the smaller parties could get real change implemented.

There continues to be obstruction of the third partys in ballot measures and pseudo independant debate
commissions rules. Volunteers spend all the effort and funds to just get on a ballot vs. any real chance to
get a message out.

It goes to show that the Republicans and democrats care more about preserving their own power than
allowing democracy to have a real chance at change.

I still think the best way to affect your own way of life is to get involved with local politics.
That is what will make the most of your efforts.

Peace
John





 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 07:05 PM
quote:

Ron Paul should have stayed in the Libertarian Party instead of wasting a bunch of money and time with the GOP. If he had, he might have been able to shake things up in this election.

.


I agree with that

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/5/2008 at 07:47 PM
some of the Nader Folk are going here


http://November5.org

 

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