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Author: Subject: Frank Zappa playing Whippin' Post (video)

Peach Bud





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  posted on 1/30/2006 at 10:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/w/Frank-Zappa-Whippin-post?v=ezapY2QpUQc&search=zapp a

Chad Wackerman on drums.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/31/2006 at 11:30 AM
I used to like Frank in the early (late '60s) days of the Mothers of Invention. This playing is so soulless, so pointless, so cold, that I stopped halfway through his solo.

Duane tore through the solo, skating on thin ice and dancing on a tightrope (sorry about the mixed metaphors ). Frank seemed to be thinking about each note.

Shortly before Duane died he said something about his guitar being so connected with his mind that his fingers wouldn't be a part of the playing process--or something very much like that! On the other hand, Frank seemed to intellectualize his playing a lot. Technically he was exceptionally good, but he didn't have the passion that Duane did.

Just my two cents' worth....

Billastro

 

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Peach Bud



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  posted on 1/31/2006 at 03:01 PM
I love Zappa.

Here is another cool clip -- Purple Lagoon -- from SNL:

http://www.youtube.com/w/Frank-Zappa%3A-Purple-Lagoon-%28SNL%2C-featuring-J ohn-Belushi%29?v=2NeUhn3v9Nk&search=zappa%20snl%201970s%20music%20tv%20belu shi

John Belushi plays Samuri Be-Bop man

A young Terry Bozzio on drums is very impressive.

 

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  posted on 2/1/2006 at 09:11 AM
quote:
http://www.youtube.com/w/Frank-Zappa-Whippin-post?v=ezapY2QpUQc&searc h=zappa

Chad Wackerman on drums.


I suppose it's inevitable that a Wackerman who becomes a musician would play drums !

Billastro

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/1/2006 at 10:44 PM
I am not fond of this version. It really shows you the difference between men truly steeped in the blues and those who are not and I mean both the vocals and the guitar. The agony and passion is not there. And Zappa's guitar, though technically brilliant is much more metallic and less fluid and jazzy than Duane and Dickey. As for the singing, when Gregg sings this song, especially on the original studio version, you can actually feel those metaphorical whips slamming into his back. This is not easy to capture.

Doug

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 2/2/2006 at 09:35 AM
Listening to Zappa through rock ears is usually a mistake. Zappa was a composer first and as such his improvisations were not structured in what I would call the "American artistic tradition" - or the more participatory musicial structure. To play in Zappa's band, you had to be able to read sheet music and follow musical direction from a contuctor. In short, Zappa's music, despite the fact that he employed elements from rock, jazz, doo-wop, etc. genres, was heirarchical - or what I would call of the "European artistic tradition" (which may explain why he was always more popular in Europe than he was in the US).

So, as for Zappa's "Whipping Post" - the decision he made to interrupt the "natural flow" of the music so that the time signature was changed, the tempo was changed, and the feel was changed was primarily a compositional decision. In the context of the song as a whole I think it works and I think that Zappa's guitar solo here (what he referred to as an "air sculpture" works as well - but for different reasons than a traditional guitar solo.

Having said all of that, I think that the fact that Zappa does Whipping Post at all is a great testament of 2 facts:
1) Whipping Post was the most requested song at concerts in the 70s (for good reason, I'd say)
2) Zappa cared enough about his audience to play it.

In fact - ever heard "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore Vol 2"? Recorded in Finland in 1974. An audience member shouts out "Whipping Post" and instead of ignoring the request or laughing it off - he polls the band to see if anyone knows it before going ahead with their originally planned song ("Montana") - and even in the course of performing Montana, FZ would interject Whipping Post lyrics.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 2/2/2006 at 12:29 PM
Thanks for the explanation Vaylor. That was so informative I think I should get a couple college credits just for reading it, lol. Thanks again.

 

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  posted on 2/2/2006 at 10:06 PM
speaking of 'you can't do that onstage vol 2' i really really like zappa's whole deal/band/guitar playing on that disc along with roxy and elsewhere, i just couldn't get into him on that whipping post video, but i wouldn't dismiss it as crap there are just things about him that i love and things i don't love so much
 

Peach Pit



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  posted on 4/11/2006 at 06:42 AM
quote:
speaking of 'you can't do that onstage vol 2' i really really like zappa's whole deal/band/guitar playing on that disc along with roxy and elsewhere, i just couldn't get into him on that whipping post video, but i wouldn't dismiss it as crap there are just things about him that i love and things i don't love so much

I agree with you on that one. Those are two of my favorites as well. I think the band in that era of the Mothers was the best, Napoleon, Ruth, Tom, Chester & George, they jelled so well together. And Franks playing never sounded better.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/12/2006 at 05:55 PM
I'd say the 88 band was by far the best.

Frank put them through some unbelievable musical paces on stage.

Too bad they melted down during the tour.

[Edited on 4/15/2006 by PhotoRon286]

 

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  posted on 4/18/2006 at 04:07 AM
i'm sitting here laughing my ass off at the comment that frank was technically good but his playing felt cold and intellectual. when FZ strapped on a guitar, all that thinking went out the window. like Duane Allman, FZ never played anything he didn't intend to or was in the process of going for or getting to. even Zappa would tell you he was no great technician or guitarist. what he did have was the same thing duane had and that was passion and fire. while duane was world class on a level that even chet atkins recognized(chet liked duane's playing when the allman joys were playing in nashville) and got there quick because of the amount of work he put in, zappa was rough and ready to go in addition to having an amazing knowledge of rhythm/polyrhythms/counterrhythms that was how he intrinsically felt music to go along with his penchant for modern/post modern orchestral music like stravinsky and varese.

frank's influences were johnny guitar watson and guitar slim. i'll eat my hat if that's intellectual. he's just on a higher plane, especially by the time that concert clip of whipping post was recorded. the fact that he puts a polyrhythmic solo over a single chord vamp w/reggae backing for his solo was his way of putting his own stamp on the song as his very unique and personal and sloppy playing(even with the ability to think complicated polyrhythms like we count 1,2,3,4) could not and would not fit with the regular solo sections of whipping post.

po-jama people, inca roads, even apostrophe come to mind and none of them suggest someone facile enough to burn like Duane. hence franks preference and proclivity for stagnant vamps with one or two chords that allowed him to go as far out on a limb as he could with a lovely underpinning. (or as he said " i like to create a harmonic climate with one or maybe two chords suggested and then play what i want to on top)

heh. FZ technically adept...no, bucket of slop comes to mind but that was what he was going for. as john lee hooker would say "haw haw haw haw".

ooh, get baby snakes with that black napkins solo or anything with him in g minor. he ate that UP, baby.


found somethng from guitar player back around 82-83 when that clip was from addressing blues and guitar playing...even the guy from the guitar magazine is clueless as to frank's real taste in music because of the mixture of the modern atonal/polyrhythmic stuff. to wit:


"Do you think young guitarists who start by learning every flashy technique are missing anything by not learning basics such as blues a la Elmore James?

Well, Elmore James is an acquired taste, and I happen to really like Elmore James, and I like all blues-type guitar players and all that sort of stuff. I happen to think that what they play really means something, as opposed to most of what happens on most rock and roll records -- it's very calculated sound effects that fit the song. But to say that a person has to start with Elmore James before he graduates up to fire-breathing guitar-playing status is stupid, because you really don't need to. If you don't have any feelings for that type of music, why involve yourself with it? I would rather see a guitar player totally ignore that realm of music in a honest way -- saying, "That's just not my stuff" -- than get a cursory glance of it and say, "Now I understand it," because they'll just do a parody of it. You've really got to love that stuff. I really hope that one of these days that sort of blues comes back. Everything else comes back. And I think that kind of music is great.

But the recording of the great bulk of original old blues material isn't that great.

Well, I'm not talking about re-releasing those old things. I'm talking about the idea that a person can stand up there with a guitar and just play blues on it. Not just play flash and trash, but play the **** ing blues, because it's good to listen to."



i know taste is subjective but frank wails the blues from his soul, even when he's starting from mars and he himself would tell you he ain't fit to carry Duane's guitar case.


whew, i need to get out more, huh? my 1/2 cent.

peace.

p.s.
final words from the man himself about the whipping post(i love the joke he makes at the end, especially in light of his estimation of his own abilities):

"Last year you were doing the Allman Brothers' "Whipping Post" [At Fillmore East]. Why?

It started about ten or twelve years ago when some guy in the audience at a concert in Helsinki, Finland, requested it.

In English?

Yes, he just yelled out "Whipping Post" in broken English. I have it on tape. And I said, "Excuse me?" I could just barely make it out. We didn't know it, and I felt kind of bad that we couldn't just play it and blow the guy's socks off. So when [pianist/vocalist/saxophonist] Bobby Martin joined the band, and I found out that he knew how to sing that song, I said, "We are definitely going to be prepared for the next time somebody wants 'Whipping Post' -- in fact we're going to play it before somebody even asks for it." I've got probably 30 different versions of it on tapes from concerts all around the world, and one of them is going to be "Whipping Post" -- the apex "Whipping Post" of the century.

Maybe they mistook you for Duane Allman.

Oh, sure they did. People do all the time."


 

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  posted on 4/23/2006 at 08:50 PM
In Frank's world, Sky Dog's name was "Phideaux"

 

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  posted on 4/24/2006 at 03:10 PM
I respect Frank Zappa but not enuff to buy his music,I think doing Whipping Post ala Zappa is an insult, I have NEVER been moved by any of his music. I thought he was more concerned about making sure his music was humorous/comical. I think he did Whipping Post because it was always requested at concerts everywhere back in the day. To me Zappa doing Allman stuff, is like Britney Spears doin Robert Johnson
 

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  posted on 4/26/2006 at 02:51 AM
frank was a blues/r and b guitar player. i reckon that whole not listening to his music has hampered your appreciation of that fact. just because he mixed modern orchestral music with satirical lyrics and made fun of contemporary society didn't detract from his ability to wail.

of course, taste being subjective, one man's meat is another man's muffin!

all he did was play the song because a) he liked it and b) it was requested like freebird i.e. all the time so he took it as a challenge when they got someone in the band who could sing it. they played it straight before and after the solo and the solo he did his thing which was play over a vamp with some sort of odd meter feel.

inca roads from one size fits all, apostrophe(w/jack bruce, no less), black napkins, the hot rats album, transylvania boogie, the illinois enema bandit...all these have smoking soloing that holds up against anyone.

not that i've thought about it or anything!

[Edited on 4/26/2006 by JazzBass]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/5/2006 at 07:44 PM
quote:
I respect Frank Zappa but not enuff to buy his music,I think doing Whipping Post ala Zappa is an insult, I have NEVER been moved by any of his music. I thought he was more concerned about making sure his music was humorous/comical. I think he did Whipping Post because it was always requested at concerts everywhere back in the day. To me Zappa doing Allman stuff, is like Britney Spears doin Robert Johnson


CONGRATS!!!

That is THE dumbest post I've read this year.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 5/5/2006 at 09:17 PM
quote:
quote:
I respect Frank Zappa but not enuff to buy his music,I think doing Whipping Post ala Zappa is an insult, I have NEVER been moved by any of his music. I thought he was more concerned about making sure his music was humorous/comical. I think he did Whipping Post because it was always requested at concerts everywhere back in the day. To me Zappa doing Allman stuff, is like Britney Spears doin Robert Johnson


CONGRATS!!!

That is THE dumbest post I've read this year.


Thanks a lot Ron,, Green tea all over my screen and keyboard

 

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  posted on 5/7/2006 at 09:28 AM
To me Zappa doing Allman stuff, is like Britney Spears doin Robert Johnson

THAT IS THE DUMBEST THING I EVER READ !

Please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Gregg say that he thought It WAS AN HONOR that someone of Frank's stature would record & play "Whipping Post" ? Didn't he say Duane respected Frank's work ? I know I read that somewhere ! I hate when people try to rate guitarists , who's better , etc. There are plenty of different styles that can be appreciated and loved . For those who think Frank can't play , you truly haven't heard nothing of huge catalog of music & that is a shame !

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/7/2006 at 06:45 PM
just when you think music can't get any worse along come people like Britney Spears, anyways perhaps my previous post was a bad analogy,but in my opinion and we all got our own opinion Duane and Dicky, played, play from the heart.Zappa to me just seems like musical masturbation. Would you wanna hear Barry Manilow sing Please Call Home? I think not. The bong awaits,later.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/7/2006 at 07:25 PM
quote:
Zappa to me just seems like musical masturbation.


Nice, quoting Sammy Hagar, a true musical pioneer.


quote:
The bong awaits.


That explains the earlier posts.

 

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  posted on 5/7/2006 at 08:54 PM
Sammy who??
 

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  posted on 5/8/2006 at 04:51 PM
Sammy Hagar is the guy who replaced David Lee Roth in Van Halen.

I had a friend who used to accuse Zappa of musical masturbation, and my response was always "If more than one person is enjoying it, it isn't masturbation!"

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/8/2006 at 07:52 PM
quote:
Sammy Hagar is the guy who replaced David Lee Roth in Van Halen.

I had a friend who used to accuse Zappa of musical masturbation, and my response was always "If more than one person is enjoying it, it isn't masturbation!"


Thank you, Rob.

I know there were many more than one enjoying Frank's music.

 

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  posted on 5/9/2006 at 06:21 AM
I know there were many more than one enjoying Frank's music.

Count me in the Zappa appreciation society !! There are so many great Zappa CD'S to listen to ! Have you heard "Imaginary Diseases" yet ? It's a new release & it's awesome live stuff from 1972 .

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/9/2006 at 08:13 PM
Haven't heard it yet.

I've been downloading all the 88 tour I can find.

Best band you never heard in your life.

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 5/18/2006 at 02:12 PM
When I hear that someone has never been moved by any of FZ's music, the first thing that comes to my mind is: you haven't heard eough. I can appreciate that there are different tastes out there, but hearing "I don't like any FZ" is like hearing "I don't like chocolate."

Peaches En Regalia is as close to perfect as music has gotten in the last 100 years. This is no hyperbole on my part. I literally think that Peaches En Regalia - as recorded on Hot Rats - ranks with Mozart's Eine Kleinen Nachtmusik or Bach's Air on the G String as examples of the finest pieces of music ever composed for a small ensemble.

But if its the viscera you're after, have you heard Roxy and Elsewhere? Village of the Sun grooves harder than 9/10ths of Parliment's output. Echidna's Arf of You -> Don't You Ever Wash That Thing is just sick!

Maybe it all has to do with first exposure. If the first works of Zappa you heard were selected highlights from his late-70's early-80's social satire era (Bobby Brown, Jewish Princess, Catholic Girls, etc.) and all you hear since is some wise-ass playing hard music - I don't know, maybe that can turn you off. But heck, you have to keep an open mind. There are even flashes of musical brialliance to be heard on Weird Al records, if you listen close enough.

Bottom line - IMHO, Zappa is in my top 5 for any category of music you want to name over the past 150 years. For real. In my mind, Zappa > Beatles + Stones. Zappa > Elvis. You'd have to get to Stravinsky or Bartok before that greater-than sign ponts the other way.

 
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