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Author: Subject: Knee Outrage

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 11:13 AM
The usual bs about outside agitators. Which of course there are some but the actual evidence of this is sorely lacking.



Officials blame 'out-of-state' agitators but those at the heart of protests are homegrown

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/05/31/george-floyd- protest-agitators-mostly-homegrown-not-outsiders/5300362002/

But it’s not true. The overwhelming majority of people who posted on social media from the precinct fire and those arrested Friday night at the protests in the Twin Cities live in the area, according to USA TODAY's review of police jail records and more than 100,000 tweets.

In an analysis of more than 1,800 Twitter users who posted from within a 3-mile radius of the precinct fire on Thursday, 85% had a history of posting inside the greater Minneapolis area before George Floyd’s death. The data – which represent only a fraction of protesters and could include some people who were not directly involved – indicate most live or work nearby, not out of state.

And

t. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter claimed Saturday morning that "every single person" arrested in his city the night before had been from out of state. Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz reiterated the idea that the troublemakers were outsiders: His "best estimate," he said, was that "about 80 percent" of the rioters were from elsewhere. Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey warned that "white supremacists, members of organized crime, out of state instigators, and possibly even foreign actors" were trying "to destroy and destabilize our city and our region." President Donald Trump didn't agree with Frey's list of culprits—"It's ANTIFA and the Radical Left," he proclaimed—but he grabbed hold of the governor's number, tweeting as a settled fact that "80% of the RIOTERS in Minneapolis last night were from OUT OF STATE."

the end of the day, those figures had fallen apart. KSTP-TV reported that St. Paul had seen 18 civil unrest arrests from Thursday through Saturday morning; just four of the arrestees were clearly from out of state, with two more of uncertain origins. In Minneapolis too, the vast majority of the people arrested were in-state. St. Paul's mayor soon conceded that he had given out bad information, and by Saturday evening KARE-TV was reporting that the governor "declined to repeat" his 80 percent claim. (KARE also pushed back, less conclusively, against Frey's list of villains: "Of those arrested from out of state, only one had a Facebook page [with] clearly identifiable support of white supremacy.")

Now, that still leaves enough gaps in the evidence to keep the outside-agitator story alive if you really like it. After all, you can project pretty much anything you want onto the masked rioters who weren't arrested. Some of those projections may even turn out to be true, or half-true, or related in some familial way to truth.

But mostly they'll be wishful thinking.




 

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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 11:36 AM
Trump fiddles while the U.S. burns.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 12:05 PM
quote:
I honestly believe that reeling in the other 3 - then, upgrading the charge on the original to Murder I might go along way towards quelling the unrest.


Totally agree. Upgrading the charge & transferring Chauvin's prosecution to the MN AG is the 1st step - despite taking 7 dates. Having those 3 at large this long is unsettling. It would demonstrate not that government is just talking, but they're taking the case seriously & acting swiftly to ensure those 3 will not "walk" for their part in the murder.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 12:31 PM
Out of state is misleading - I know that area pretty well. The suburbs and outlying towns around Minneapolis are a practically a different country, predominantly white, while Minneapolis has a concentration of minorities. I could easily see how whites from outside Minneapolis who have long chafed at the strange and threatening brown city at the heart of their empire would take this opportunity to drive the half hour to go and help destroy the place.
 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 12:52 PM
quote:
Out of state is misleading

Granted, I've only been there about 5 times, but are there any out of state suburbs - like in WI, IA, & the Dakotas? I totally get that out-of-city might be included in stats, but if published reports are relying on license plates & DLs, they'd be from another state.

Legit question. NYC's suburbs include NJ & CT & I wouldn't classify them as outside agitators.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 01:02 PM
quote:
quote:
Out of state is misleading

Granted, I've only been there about 5 times, but are there any out of state suburbs - like in WI, IA, & the Dakotas? I totally get that out-of-city might be included in stats, but if published reports are relying on license plates & DLs, they'd be from another state.

Legit question. NYC's suburbs include NJ & CT & I wouldn't classify them as outside agitators.

The Minneapolis metro area is too far from Iowa and the Dakotas. WI is very close, but the twin cities don't sprawl across the state line except for maybe 2 rural WI counties that are part of the "metro area". But I doubt that affects the stats.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 01:13 PM
quote:
quote:
I honestly believe that reeling in the other 3 - then, upgrading the charge on the original to Murder I might go along way towards quelling the unrest.


Totally agree. Upgrading the charge & transferring Chauvin's prosecution to the MN AG is the 1st step - despite taking 7 dates. Having those 3 at large this long is unsettling. It would demonstrate not that government is just talking, but they're taking the case seriously & acting swiftly to ensure those 3 will not "walk" for their part in the murder.


Agree on charges being brought against the 3 additional cops.

I have seen several legal analysts indicate that upgrading Chauvin's charges from 3 to 1 may make a conviction harder based upon intent. It may make people feel better based on charging, but the goal is to put him away. One legal analyst indicated that once in the big house murder is murder. Not sure about the number of years difference in one charge vs another, but Chauvin is toast.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 01:18 PM
We had riots & destruction in my city last couple nights. The chief of police said he has credible evidence and intel that much of this is being instigated by outsiders. They are looking to go after these people.
 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 01:23 PM
quote:
Agree on charges being brought against the 3 additional cops.

I have seen several legal analysts indicate that upgrading Chauvin's charges from 3 to 1 may make a conviction harder based upon intent. It may make people feel better based on charging, but the goal is to put him away. One legal analyst indicated that once in the big house murder is murder. Not sure about the number of years difference in one charge vs another, but Chauvin is toast.


In MN, 1st degree is life v. 25 years for 3rd. When I read the original charge, it seemed appropriate. The inclusion of lesser charges like manslaughter is risky, too, because it gives the jury an option if the prosecution can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Bumping up the charge was probably a PR move to look serious. People watch too much TV & think 1st degree is magically more serious; it just may not apply

I know I've been going on about the 3 other ex-cops but it's been a week. Get them into custody.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 01:28 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I honestly believe that reeling in the other 3 - then, upgrading the charge on the original to Murder I might go along way towards quelling the unrest.


Totally agree. Upgrading the charge & transferring Chauvin's prosecution to the MN AG is the 1st step - despite taking 7 dates. Having those 3 at large this long is unsettling. It would demonstrate not that government is just talking, but they're taking the case seriously & acting swiftly to ensure those 3 will not "walk" for their part in the murder.


Agree on charges being brought against the 3 additional cops.

I have seen several legal analysts indicate that upgrading Chauvin's charges from 3 to 1 may make a conviction harder based upon intent. It may make people feel better based on charging, but the goal is to put him away. One legal analyst indicated that once in the big house murder is murder. Not sure about the number of years difference in one charge vs another, but Chauvin is toast.


Not necessarily, the 4 cops who beat up Rodney King were acquitted
Just hoping the Thursday funeral will serve to calm things down & not be a powderkeg

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 01:32 PM
quote:
We had riots & destruction in my city last couple nights. The chief of police said he has credible evidence and intel that much of this is being instigated by outsiders. They are looking to go after these people.


Any indication of whether the outsiders are white supremacists making their rounds or Antifa? I've learned just saying "outside" has some people immediately blaming Antifa - "those radical left." I feel like I'm back in time hearing about the SDS/weathermen again.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 01:48 PM
quote:
In MN, 1st degree is life v. 25 years for 3rd. When I read the original charge, it seemed appropriate. The inclusion of lesser charges like manslaughter is risky, too, because it gives the jury an option if the prosecution can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Bumping up the charge was probably a PR move to look serious. People watch too much TV & think 1st degree is magically more serious; it just may not apply

It has to do with intent, 3rd degree murder in MN is categorized as murder "without intent". First degree requires intent to kill, and recent reports suggest Chauvin knew Floyd since they both worked security at the same night club.

https://www.newsweek.com/george-floyd-attorney-calls-first-degree-murder-ch arge-against-derek-chauvin-says-officer-knew-1507683

Even if they didn't know each other, purposefully crushing a man's neck for minutes after he has gone unconscious looks intentional to me. Here is a breakdown of the entire incident:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-investigation.html

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 01:56 PM
quote:
quote:
We had riots & destruction in my city last couple nights. The chief of police said he has credible evidence and intel that much of this is being instigated by outsiders. They are looking to go after these people.


Any indication of whether the outsiders are white supremacists making their rounds or Antifa? I've learned just saying "outside" has some people immediately blaming Antifa - "those radical left." I feel like I'm back in time hearing about the SDS/weathermen again.


No indication on detail of outsiders. I worked with the chief many years ago when he was in Information Systems long before he changed careers. He always was a stand up guy. One of the most decent & capable people I've worked with.

Maybe you want to direct your question to Trump because he's already made up his mind. Has he even mentioned white supremacists?

By Jessica Suerth | CNN
As protests over George Floyd’s death spread across the country, officials have blamed the violent nature of some demonstrations on members of a controversial group known as Antifa.

President Donald Trump on Sunday said the United States would designate Antifa a terrorist organization, though the federal government has no legal authority to label a wholly domestic group the way it designates foreign terrorist organizations.

Speaking at the Kennedy Space Center on Saturday, Trump said the recent “violence and vandalism” seen across the country “is being led by Antifa and other radical left-wing groups who are terrorizing the innocent, destroying jobs, hurting businesses and burning down buildings.”

The President did not provide any evidence for his assertion.


 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 02:03 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I honestly believe that reeling in the other 3 - then, upgrading the charge on the original to Murder I might go along way towards quelling the unrest.


Totally agree. Upgrading the charge & transferring Chauvin's prosecution to the MN AG is the 1st step - despite taking 7 dates. Having those 3 at large this long is unsettling. It would demonstrate not that government is just talking, but they're taking the case seriously & acting swiftly to ensure those 3 will not "walk" for their part in the murder.


Agree on charges being brought against the 3 additional cops.

I have seen several legal analysts indicate that upgrading Chauvin's charges from 3 to 1 may make a conviction harder based upon intent. It may make people feel better based on charging, but the goal is to put him away. One legal analyst indicated that once in the big house murder is murder. Not sure about the number of years difference in one charge vs another, but Chauvin is toast.


Not necessarily, the 4 cops who beat up Rodney King were acquitted
Just hoping the Thursday funeral will serve to calm things down & not be a powderkeg


I'd be shocked if you see a repeeat of Rodney King or many of the other similar cases. Chauvin & friends will go down. If not, what you have seen in the last week will look like the minor leagues.

I truly believe the culture will change from the events of the last few months & with a new President who will not egg on cops & violence. Look at Trump's words over the last 3 years & in the last week.

No calming press conference as of yet from this prez. However today he blames the governors. As usual, blaming is his greatest attribute as "a leader".

 

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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 02:11 PM
quote:

Let me ask you a question. The people (Regardless of race or color) who've taken to the streets to loot, pillage and burn under the banner of "revolt" do you believe them to be Liberals or Conservatives?


Honestly, I think most of those who loot and burn are neither. I think those who loot are opportunist criminals who find the protests as a chance to take advantage of police being overwhelmed. I think the vast majority of those burning buildings are anarchist who hate everybody and would like to destroy all government, regardless of who is in charge. I doubt either of these groups put any thought into politics, and I highly doubt that most have ever voted in their entire life.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 03:02 PM
quote:
Honestly, I think most of those who loot and burn are neither. I think those who loot are opportunist criminals who find the protests as a chance to take advantage of police being overwhelmed. I think the vast majority of those burning buildings are anarchist who hate everybody and would like to destroy all government, regardless of who is in charge. I doubt either of these groups put any thought into politics, and I highly doubt that most have ever voted in their entire life.

This is spot on, I agree.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 03:22 PM
quote:
quote:
Honestly, I think most of those who loot and burn are neither. I think those who loot are opportunist criminals who find the protests as a chance to take advantage of police being overwhelmed. I think the vast majority of those burning buildings are anarchist who hate everybody and would like to destroy all government, regardless of who is in charge. I doubt either of these groups put any thought into politics, and I highly doubt that most have ever voted in their entire life.

This is spot on, I agree.


Agree also. Plus a very large number of the people who are not looting, but out in the streets to protest have probably never voted and pay very little attention to what the political parties are about. They have grown up knowing they are screwed no matter who is in power. When you are the poorest of the poor, you stay poor. It's really hard to get out. This applies to people living in inner city ghettos and hillbilly trailer parks. Politicians and elections are way down on their list of worries. They are not liberal or conservative... they are just vulnerable and powerless in a lot of ways.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 03:23 PM
quote:
quote:
Honestly, I think most of those who loot and burn are neither. I think those who loot are opportunist criminals who find the protests as a chance to take advantage of police being overwhelmed. I think the vast majority of those burning buildings are anarchist who hate everybody and would like to destroy all government, regardless of who is in charge. I doubt either of these groups put any thought into politics, and I highly doubt that most have ever voted in their entire life.

This is spot on, I agree.


X2. Every word.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 03:41 PM
Minneapolis has history of these cops getting away with murder literally and figuratively but that doesn't matter to the pigs and their supporters. The Chief of the Police Union up there has started to stir the pot even more labeling Floyd as a "violent criminal".
He is one of those types that favors mass incarceration and systemic oppression over rehabilitation.


https://www.insider.com/president-minneapolis-police-union-wore-white-power -patch-lawsuit-2020-5

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/01/bob-kroll-george-floyd-minn eapolis-police-union-chief

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 08:31 PM
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Trump fiddles while the U.S. burns.


He "ain't wastin' time no more"...after being sent to the bunker in the White House for his own safety 2 out of the last four days and after discussion with General Milley and Mark Esper he announced he will stop the rioting. If the Governors and Mayors cannot do it, he will deploy the military and do it for them.

Each night things are worse in every city. He has to do this.

Https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-he-will-use-military-to-put-down-riot s-235749948.html

It is so bad on Florida, Polk County Police Chief Grady Judd tells citizens to shoot the people trying to break in their homes.

"If you try to break into their houses to steal, to set fires,I'm highly recommending they blow you back out of the house with their guns. So leave the community alone. "

NYC disaster. Protest tonight starts at 10 pm. We are supposed to be on lockdown meaning people are home and stay there by 8 pm. The Mayors daughter was out there over the weekend and was arrested. So he is not enforcing anything. The Governor has to deal with the coronavirus. It is just bad.

I have a report from Rome, NY and Utica NY, the Walmarts closed because someone threatened to shoot people in the stores and or parking lots. Rome has the air force base.

The NYC protesters want to come out to Long Island also. I'm not into martial law. All these other places look at what has happened. The anarchists have hijacked national empathy for their own agenda. Riots are not a form of peaceful assembly or a way to change anything.







[Edited on 6/2/2020 by gina]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 08:44 PM
quote:
quote:
Trump fiddles while the U.S. burns.


He "ain't wastin' time no more"...after being sent to the bunker in the White House for his own safety 2 out of the last four days and after discussion with General Milley and Mark Esper he announced he will stop the rioting. If the Governors and Mayors cannot do it, he will deploy the military and do it for them.

Each night things are worse in every city. He has to do this.

Https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-he-will-use-military-to-put-down-riot s-235749948.html

It is so bad on Florida, Polk County Police Chief Grady Judd tells citizens to shoot the people trying to break in their homes.

"If you try to break into their houses to steal, to set fires,I'm highly recommending they blow you back out of the house with their guns. So leave the community alone. "

NYC disaster. Protest tonight starts at 10 pm. We are supposed to be on lockdown meaning people are home and stay there by 8 pm. The Mayors daughter was out there over the weekend and was arrested. So he is not enforcing anything. The Governor has to deal with the coronavirus. It is just bad.




Leave it to you to condone trump's illegal actions.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 08:52 PM
I have seen so much horror over the last week. People being brutalized by cops while in demonstrations, reporters being deliberately targeted. What is the resolution to these things?

The cops shoot reporters, anarchists antagonize cops, innocent people are getting hurt, fires everywhere.

How can this be resolved?

I don't want to see Jade Helm on Americas streets.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 09:20 PM
quote:
Says that by 2014 $787,000 per year was spent providing battlefield weaponry to police departments. - Glen Ford

US Senator Brian Schatz of Hawaii is introducing a bill as an amendment to the NDAA to discontinue the program that transfers military weapons to local police departments because they do not "train and supervise for restraint and de-escalation and some officers are just plain racist and violent".


All these years questioning why police departments are militarizing their forces...isn't this the prime example why they have done it? This is the exact moment they have obtained that stuff for. Glad they have it.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 09:30 PM
quote:
This is exactly right, for the last 60 yrs, who has planned, plotted and executed activities designed to bring about the fall and collapse of the U.S. government??? It's not the impoverished minorities, I can tell You that!!! Why it's our idolized fighters for justice, our heroes like Randy Weaver and the Aryan Brotherhood??......joe


Oh come on. yeah...the earth liberation front...WTO protests in Seattle 20 years ago...the Occupy movement was hijacked in a similar way that BLM is seeing now. We've already had one mention of the SDS/Weather Underground.

Sure, there are the Timothy McViegh's the Randy Weavers out there.

Anyone who focuses on one side of the extremist spectrum while ignoring the other has an agenda. Be that members here or in the White House.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2020 at 09:34 PM
quote:
Trump fiddles while the U.S. burns.


Would you actually prefer he gave an address?

You wouldn't agree with his words or proposed actions, so then isn't the better alternative is he doesn't address the nation?

Sure, a normal President would do what normal Presidents do. When Trump talks he normally makes things worse...so I suspect you would be happier if he keeps fiddling.

 
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