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Author: Subject: Knee Outrage

True Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 10:53 AM
The health and safety risks of "congregations" in the street have been pointed out by many including mayors and newscasters. I read where an Oklahoma State football player tested positive after attending one of the protests.

On the surface - yes, this appears to be an irresponsible act. I suppose that many people have weighed their own health and safety risks against STANDING UP AND SPEAKING OUT against horrific police practices. If a person KNEW that they had the virus and attended - that's one thing. There are others who are perfectly healthy who are willing to take these risks. This is a pretty non-selfish act that borders on heroism.

As the Atlanta mayor recommended: "if you've attended one of the protests - you need to get the Covid test!"

(FYI - I just had my SECOND Covid test in 8 days! They do not get any easier! )

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 11:37 AM
quote:
On the surface - yes, this appears to be an irresponsible act. I suppose that many people have weighed their own health and safety risks against STANDING UP AND SPEAKING OUT against horrific police practices. If a person KNEW that they had the virus and attended - that's one thing. There are others who are perfectly healthy who are willing to take these risks. This is a pretty non-selfish act that borders on heroism.


"appears to be"..NO DOUBT.

quote:
If a person KNEW that they had the virus and attended - that's one thing.


Not one week ago, the CDC and WHO claimed you can carry this virus and not know it. Thus the reason for social distancing...Unless of course the risk of this virus returning is based on the "heroism" of standing in the streets among thousands...

 

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"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this". - Joe Biden, 1977

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 11:44 AM
Geez V, you're all over the place. I stand by what I said, you haven't refuted anything. I applaud your research here but I'm still not really sure what your overall argument is - you want everyone to be able to protest without masks? COVID-19 is a hoax? Or you want all protesters arrested? In typical V fashion you mischaracterize events, ignore context, and how responses are different to different situations or escalations (soccer moms vs. crowds of people). You seem to think no protesters have been arrested. And for some reason you have created the straw man argument that I want people to congregate for protests (or something?). As you championed, one size does not fit all, but now you want everything wrapped in an equal bow - pretty hypocritical.

quote:
Let's arrest a woman for going to a playground with the intent being "THE PARK IS CLOSED FOR HEALTH REASONS" and the possible endangerment of others and the concern of spreading Covid 19 to others including children. But when THOUSANDS show up in crowds with NO DISTANCING and with a good percentage not wearing masks, it's " really not a large portion of the population"

Now go ahead and claim the social unrest is an adequate reason to turn a blind eye to a killer virus, then state that it's a small percentage of the population..


Say what? No one has turned a blind eye to the virus - you completely made that up or just aren't paying attention. Police have been attempting to disperse crowds in many areas for the past week, curfews are back in place. Meanwhile, the conservative blogging soccer mom wanted to be arrested in protest. Protesters, kind of by definition, disrupt to get peoples' attention - we're not supposed to like it, even if we support the cause. Like people who stormed the MI and OH capitol buildings last month without masks on - you had no problem with their lack of safety precautions. There have been peaceful vigils, but in the month since that mother was arrested for refusing an officer of the law's orders on property she didn't own, many other protesters in the streets have been arrested. NYC is not Boise. Remember, as you championed, one size does not fit all.

quote:
"I think a good analogy is a seat belt"....Unless you are attending a protest with THOUSANDS where the seatbelt/mask comparison does not apply.


You misunderstand the analogy, as well as how masks and social distancing work. The analogy is that a mask/seat belt is a safety precaution for both you, the people around you (a mask walking on the street, be it in protest or to the market, or a seat belt while on a busy the highway), and health care professionals/responders. The mask is meant to help protect you from those in close proximity. In other cases, keep your distance. So it still applies, you just didn't understand any of it.

quote:
Another gem below that is evidently not applicable to large crowds because "it's really not a large portion of the population" but go to a playground!!!!!

quote:Is playing in parks while people suffer and die really the hill you want to die on, BIGV?

Are people still suffering from this virus PK Bob? Where do you think this virus is more likely to be spread?..In a playground?...Or on the streets where THOUSANDS are tightly packed together?..But oh yeah .."it's really not a large portion of the population"


I've already mentioned how the protests are not helping COVID-19 recovery. I know you read that because you responded to it. So this is a straw man that you've gotten yourself upset about. You've also taken my quote about the population of protesters out of context, not surprisingly.

quote:
And my favorite PorkChopBob!

quote:Restaurants pretty much every where are doing take out and delivery (including NYC) The issue is places where people congregate - bars, churches, parks, stadiums, theaters, etc. California had a lock down after they got hit hard with COVID cases before they even knew it. Other areas less densely populated are trying to be preventative so they don't have to be as aggressive in their response. It's really not that much to ask that you stay away from a park. Most people aren't taking their kids out of the house if they don't have to, these rules are often made for the dumbest or least responsible (like anti-vacc'ers). Because if everyone ignored them and went to the beach or the park, then you have an issue.

quote: The issue is places where people congregate

Tell us bob, are people "Congregating" in the streets at these protests? But oh yeah .."it's really not a large portion of the population"

Again, another straw man argument you've created. What I said is accurate, but no where did I say I want people to go protest right next to each other without masks on right now. Some vigils are occurring safely at a distance from each other with masks on, but I'm still staying home. Also, I'd wager there were more people across the country in restaurants than on the street protesting, neither of which keep COVID-19 from spreading. So you are arguing with yourself here.

quote:
Most people aren't taking their kids out of the house if they don't have to, these rules are often made for the dumbest or least responsible (like anti-vacc'ers)
There is a photo in this thread of a protester holding up a child with NO MASK and one of the first comments was a concern with the child being exposed to pepper spray


"Most" people and a single photo. Bravo! That's what you have? I linked to the article and there were 30 photos of people at that event spaced apart with masks on. One dad out with his kid (assuming?) in a safe, rich suburb doesn't prove that MOST people aren't taking their kids out of the house. You've got nothing here.


As you like to say, actions in life have consequences. If you can learn anything from these past weeks, it's that they have different consequences for different people. They always have. There are often variables out of our control.

Yes, it sucks that there are two situations that are overlapping each other in a potentially inflammatory way. A Boise soccer mom refusing an officer's orders is going to get a different response than a crowd of angry people marching. But no where are you ever concerned that a Boise soccer mom is treated differently by cops than a black man - she wasn't murdered with her face in the pavement. COVID-19 is a threat, but that doesn't mean it's the only issue we must deal with at one time. Maybe Venn Diagrams aren't your thing.

Finally, you have a tendency to create straw man arguments. Please save us time and stop inventing arguments that no one made, you will save yourself some energy.

Have a great day.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 11:46 AM
quote:
Not one week ago, the CDC and WHO claimed you can carry this virus and not know it. Thus the reason for social distancing...


They've known that for MONTHS - it's called asymptomatic.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 03:34 PM
There was a very moving Memorial Service today in Minneapolis for George Floyd. Rev. Al Sharpton asked people to stand for 8:46 seconds of silence. Then he said that's how long it took while the officer had his knee on George. He had time to reconsider the pleas of a dieing man he didn't. 8:46 seconds is enough time he could've stopped. Even Ben Crump the family's attorney cried.

Beautiful gospel music like Gregg Allman would do at a service like that.

From Minneapolis they go to Raeford, North Carolina for a private service, and then Monday will be a public viewing in Houston and the funeral Tuesday at the Fountain of Praise Church.

Yes he already has changed the country and now he can breathe.

Https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/you-changed-the-world-george-floyd-eulogi zed-at-emotional-memorial/ar-BB152gx9?li=BBnb7Kz



[Edited on 6/5/2020 by gina]

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 03:39 PM
There is yet another case of a suspect who was murdered by police. Cause of death Respiratory arrest. Hypoxia and physical restraint. SEATTLE. Manuel Ellis. March 2020.

Https://www.yahoo.com/news/another-man-said-cant-breathe-122007254.html

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 03:41 PM
quote:
You misunderstand the analogy, as well as how masks and social distancing work


I have "misunderstood" nothing. You put forth a conveniently hypocritical argument that suits your agenda.

Have a nice day.

 

____________________
"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this". - Joe Biden, 1977

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 03:42 PM
Thanks for reminding us what the thread is about gina.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 03:52 PM
The ongoing looting in NYC is now known to be being caused by an organized group behind the looters. They are being dropped off in luxury cars with power tools. There are buckets of concrete rocks and pallets of bricks along the routes of their looting. It is not happenstance or a protester whose anger has just boiled over. This is planned, premeditated and executed with excellent timing. Pick up and drop offs of looters. They hit and run get picked up and dropped off at the next looting target point.

Https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8384139/NYC-looters-dropped-cars-t ools-picked-driven-location.html


The pallets of bricks seen in more cities than NYC.

Someone wants a race/civil war and takedown of our government. What's worse is there are many known suspects. Antifa, Occupy Wall Street, China, Democrats?, Anarchists known and unknown, rogue government factions, new world order supporters.

So whose doing the looting? Any of the above.

[Edited on 6/4/2020 by gina]

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 04:16 PM
Chicago P.D. specifies carotid restraints are a deadly force technique.
Los Angeles says their cops are allowed to use the techniques in circumstances that call for deadly force.
NYPD banned chokeholds in 1993 but still used in on Eric Garner to kill him

San Diego is stopping use of carotid restraint.

Https://www.yahoo.com/news/several-police-departments-nationwide-banned-014 608638.html


When will other police forces honor life and stop using DEADLY FORCE techniques. They should never need to do this. Two officers should be able to subdue and handcuff someone. What gives them the right to use techniques that can KILL someone who has not even had due process or been to court and been found guilty? They are murdering SUSPECTS. Appointing themselves judge, jury, and executioner. Where do they get those powers from?

VAP must stop. Violence Against PEOPLE, any and all people.

Not just black people ALL people, all inclusive.

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 04:37 PM
quote:
I have "misunderstood" nothing. You put forth a conveniently hypocritical argument that suits your agenda.

Agenda? I would love to know what you think my agenda is. My agenda was to inform you, because you clearly don't even understand the purpose of a medical mask. But this is all too typical, when you've been completely contradicted, your own hypocrisy exposed with your own words, you pivot and make up new arguments out of thin air.

It's telling that you've high-jacked a thread about the outrage over to the murder of minorities into a thread about COVID-19 social distancing, something you previously didn't care about or even believe in. Talk about agenda, you more concerned about the injustice of a soccer mom than those murdered in the street.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 05:51 PM
quote:
My agenda was to inform you


Save it. I care little about being "enlightened" or "informed" by posters on a musical message board. I merely pointed out in detail what a hypocrite you are using your very own words....and you've very typically responded with the quote above. To disagree with you calls for an "education" and there is little chance for disagreement in principal, because people with opposing views "just do not understand"...

Oh my...

 

____________________
"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this". - Joe Biden, 1977

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 06:16 PM
^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG1NrQYXjLU
 

Peach Master



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 06:45 PM
quote:


Save it. I care little about being "enlightened" or "informed" by posters on a musical message board.




So what exactly do you care about here besides being a habitual sh!t stirrer?

 

True Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 07:00 PM
quote:
quote:
My agenda was to inform you


Save it. I care little about being "enlightened" or "informed" by posters on a musical message board. I merely pointed out in detail what a hypocrite you are using your very own words....and you've very typically responded with the quote above. To disagree with you calls for an "education" and there is little chance for disagreement in principal, because people with opposing views "just do not understand"...

Oh my...



Don't we all try to inform others of our different points of view, facts, issues, circumstances and thoughts that everyone might not be thinking about? BigV, don't you yourself try to inform others with your posts? Doesn't mean everyone has to accept that information or agree, just saying, exchanging information and ideas...isn't that the whole idea?

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 07:06 PM
quote:
Save it. I care little about being "enlightened" or "informed" by posters on a musical message board. I merely pointed out in detail what a hypocrite you are using your very own words....and you've very typically responded with the quote above. To disagree with you calls for an "education" and there is little chance for disagreement in principal, because people with opposing views "just do not understand"...


Dude, you wrote a big old smug post trying to contradict comments I've made, I countered and pointed out many inaccuracies and glaring hypocrisies of your own and you have conveniently ignored all of it because I pointed out a few items you mischaracterized (a month ago you didn't even know there was curbside grocery pickup). Toughen up dude, don't dish it if you can't take it. I'd love to discuss differences of opinion, but not continuous straw men.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2020 at 08:12 PM
Rev.Al Sharpton announced today that there will be a demonstration in Washington. DC on August 28, which is the anniversary of the historic Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. I Have A Dream speech. He was inspired by the protest marches of whites in London and other places and thinks this time maybe change can happen.

Https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/al-sharpton-on-anniversary-of-historic-de monstration/ar-BB153bdc?li=BBnbfcL




[Edited on 6/5/2020 by gina]

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2020 at 12:38 AM
quote:
quote:


Save it. I care little about being "enlightened" or "informed" by posters on a musical message board.




So what exactly do you care about here besides being a habitual sh!t stirrer?


Typical, to disagree with you is "Stirring the ****"

Please

 

____________________
"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this". - Joe Biden, 1977

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2020 at 12:42 AM
quote:
quote:
Save it. I care little about being "enlightened" or "informed" by posters on a musical message board. I merely pointed out in detail what a hypocrite you are using your very own words....and you've very typically responded with the quote above. To disagree with you calls for an "education" and there is little chance for disagreement in principal, because people with opposing views "just do not understand"...


Dude, you wrote a big old smug post trying to contradict comments I've made, I countered and pointed out many inaccuracies and glaring hypocrisies of your own and you have conveniently ignored all of it because I pointed out a few items you mischaracterized (a month ago you didn't even know there was curbside grocery pickup). Toughen up dude, don't dish it if you can't take it. I'd love to discuss differences of opinion, but not continuous straw men.


I did not "try"...I did.

 

____________________
"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this". - Joe Biden, 1977

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2020 at 07:16 AM
quote:
I did not "try"...I did.

No. All you did was prove COVID-19 and the response to several racially charged incidents are separate issues that are tangentially related. You linked comments superficially that contradicted arguments that only exist in your own head. I have asked what your actual point is, because it is still super unclear, and you can't even answer. Every time someone here contradicts you or corrects you, you completely ignore it and respond with bullish rhetoric.

As nebish mentioned, we come here to discuss and learn. I learn a lot from everyone, I read far more than I engage. We all have different experiences or live in different areas that are affected in unique ways. I have friends and family across the country and beyond who have insight into what is happening there. There are perspectives and articles here that I wouldn't normally come across that I find enlightening. But if you just want to drop the "gotcha!" hammer, at least know what the hell it is you are talking about.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2020 at 09:50 AM
As an aside, my sister in law attended a protest in SF. She only saw 1 person without a mask, and people were spaced (maybe not 6 feet - but it wasn't crowded)
No press there - it was boring, no violence

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2020 at 09:59 AM
quote:
quote:
I did not "try"...I did.


No. All you did was prove COVID-19 and the response to several racially charged incidents are separate issues that are tangentially related


"tangentially related" Nice try. You can not preach about the importance of defeating this virus and turn around in the next sentence and argue for an exception because it is "racially charged"....You are one of the biggest hypocrites here...

 

____________________
"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this". - Joe Biden, 1977

 

True Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2020 at 10:33 AM
quote:
As an aside, my sister in law attended a protest in SF. She only saw 1 person without a mask, and people were spaced (maybe not 6 feet - but it wasn't crowded)
No press there - it was boring, no violence


Media is good at sensationalizing things...not so good showing regular people give moving speeches on courthouse steps. But ultimately I guess they give us what we want and what gets viewers and what sells advertising.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2020 at 10:35 AM
quote:
"tangentially related" Nice try. You can not preach about the importance of defeating this virus and turn around in the next sentence and argue for an exception because it is "racially charged"....You are one of the biggest hypocrites here...

Not true at all. I never argued for an exception for protestors "because" it is racially charged - you're incorrectly applying the description of the situation as the cause for the response. I never even argued for an exception. I even mentioned here that protestors were going to complicate COVID-19 cases. This is yet another argument that you have created in your head.

And they are two issues that overlap like a Venn Diagram - they aren't the same issue, but affect each other! But you care more about the hypocrisy of every single police precinct's response to COVID-19 versus their response to protestors as if it should be exactly the same. As you have lauded, "one size does not fit all", these are all different situations even when similar, but you hypocritically want it to be the same because you think you have the right to go to a park anytime you want to. Talk about axe to grind. You can't see the forest from the trees.

Go play in park.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2020 at 11:06 AM
quote:
quote:
As an aside, my sister in law attended a protest in SF. She only saw 1 person without a mask, and people were spaced (maybe not 6 feet - but it wasn't crowded)
No press there - it was boring, no violence


Media is good at sensationalizing things...not so good showing regular people give moving speeches on courthouse steps. But ultimately I guess they give us what we want and what gets viewers and what sells advertising.


I rarely have time to watch the news or cable news punditry, I rely on a very robust twitter feed I've built, and the most heinous things I've seen are videos taken by actual citizens while they are 10 feet away from and in the middle of the brutality.

IMO, the viewing public has been completely played by the perceived size of "riots and looting" outside of Minneapolis and maybe New York when looking at how many people are involved and how much property is involved when compared to the overall size of the country and our population. People also continue to refuse to look deeper to who is actually doing what. Anarchy is a thing. Black Bloc Anarchy is a thing....independent of party or political ideology.

Here in Kansas City, the first six days there was a standoff of riot shields, tear gas, arrests, protesters, mostly peaceful but also some looking to fight the police. Two nights ago, the mayor rescinded the curfew, the cops took their helmets off and put the shields down, and we've since had two nights of peaceful protests with ZERO incidents. He believed that the issue was the curfew itself, it was putting the police in a horrific position of having to clear the streets at a certain time. It worked here, might not work elsewhere. The KCPD has also agreed to 24/7 body cams, and also has created a policy that the city council has already passed that any future incidents of excessive force or death must be investigated by an independent body outside of the police force. In this instance, one might say the protests are working.

There are cops I'm friends with and their feelings are varied and complicated, but to a person they are disgusted with what happened to George Floyd.

The world didn't change because everyone has a phone. The world has changed because everyone has a camera.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 
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