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Author: Subject: Skynyrd. Dowd bashing

Peach Head



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  posted on 5/11/2020 at 08:46 PM
Butch was set up by a guy named Kent Griffith when he blogged that **** , and to anyone who knew about it, he looked like a fool. Butch didn't even know who Ed King was beforehand.

King BTW, was talking about what Dowd did to the 91 Skynyrd CD. They didn't like the way it sounded, King took some of the tapes and reworked them, Dowd got mad and severed ties with Skynyrd, and it caused some internal Skynyrd conflicts. Ed king was the artist, and if he didn't like the work Dowd did, it was his right to change it.

Also, If you read some of the Skynyrd books, especially the Ron Eckerman book, or interviews of their crew, Even Ronnie Van Zant lost confidence in Dowd in 1977. The Street Survivors record was rerecorded and mixed by their sound guy mostly with the Dowd stuff shelved. I believe the quote from RVZ is something like "Fuckin Dowd man, He's lost his mind" So there's a long history of Skynyrd people who didn't agree with the Dowd work on their stuff. Maybe their type of music wasn't Dowds forte.

Again, Butch was set up, bought Kent's hate for Ed King hook, line, and sinker, and made an ass of himself, and later apologized. Butch wouldn't have known Ed King if he bumped into him in the street. Ed King wrote and played one of the most popular and most recognizable songs and guitar intro's in music history. Butch played drums in the Allman Bros.

 

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  posted on 5/11/2020 at 09:00 PM
quote:
Then again, I hate to say this, but Layla is pretty muddy here and tbere.
Maybe they did blow off Tom Dowd. Or maybe Tom Dowd saved it from total botch job by those guys. Who knows. I do know I have a decent ear, and Layla sounds pretty bad in places. I have the MFSL, the 40th, etc, there are definitely some weak spots. Interesting stuff.


I agree here, Layla sounds worse than awful in spots. "Weak" doesn't even com close, I would use the term "muddy". Maybe it's the origin of the recordings, maybe it's the mix, whatever it is, Dowd's name is all over it...

 

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  posted on 5/11/2020 at 09:37 PM
Another thing about this that I just remembered. When Butch was attacking Ed King, completely ignoring his writing of Sweet Home Alabama, Ed was laying in a hospital days from death awaiting a donor heart to become available. Ed came days from dying, Butch who didn't even know of him was attacking him. Ed King "a arrogant, ignorant, redneck" said Butch. Ed King was from CA. As far from redneck as he could be. Meanwhile it was Butch who came across as arrogant and ignorant.
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/11/2020 at 09:51 PM
^ Took me buying several different releases all different remasters to figure this is just how it sounds, and stop chasing the Holy Grail of the Perfect Layla.

Mustnt forget the listener is part of the production as well. One thing has changed since I was kneehigh to an amp and that is in the early 70s we cranked this record so damn loud the "mix" was not a concern. Now that I think on it I didn't even know what a "mix" was. What I did know was this was one of those records that you had to feed. The speakers had to be inflated to the spec psi.

Maybe the record requires more air movement than modern playback gear and contemporary listening habits offer, and the "mud" is that we just aren't unfurling the sheets letting the sails fill up, and becalmed like bored sailors we start picking at details. I cant recall the last time I cranked this record up to the volume it demands.

I sure don't recall any sound problems back when I was feeling the wind from the ripping cones listening to Derek and the Dominoes..Other than ringing ears, it sounded great.

Another analogy - if the tires are low and you dont run it up to the sweet rpm, your Porsche is gonna suck. So maybe we all need to revisit the correct amplification of Layla, then discuss Tom Dowd.

Turn it up!

[Edited on 5/12/2020 by BrerRabbit]

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/11/2020 at 10:20 PM
I was just thinking. Did Tom Dowd mean Jim Gordon played the piano on Layla's long coda?

It's often regarded as THE solo from Bobby Whitlock.

 

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  posted on 5/12/2020 at 06:27 AM
quote:
I was just thinking. Did Tom Dowd mean Jim Gordon played the piano on Layla's long coda?

It's often regarded as THE solo from Bobby Whitlock.


i think you mean Rita Coolidge





 

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  posted on 5/12/2020 at 08:09 AM
Wow I never knew this. Thanks lonomon for making me curious. Just did some digging and Rita Coolidge came out a few years ago saying that her then boyfriend Jim Gordon stole that song from her. She said Eric Clapton wrote the main part of the song then they tacked on the coda. When Rita heard it the first time on the radio, she immediately recognized that part as her song "Time" which was presented to Clapton as a demo. Rita said she wrote the melody and the bridge by herself and Jim Gordon contributed little to it.

Rita said she rushed to see a copy of the album and the credit was Eric Clapton, Jim Gordon. Rita contacted the record company and said she wrote that and her name has to be on the record moving forward.

It went to Robert Stigwood's office and he rejected her demand. Rita was going to fight for her share but was advised to drop it. Rita was told Robert Stigwood was wealthy, powerful and very mean and Stiggy usually gets his way. In short she couldn't afford to take him on and he could also damage her career.

And in recent years Bobby Whitlock has admited that one of the world's most famous piano solos in rock history is mostly Jim Gordon. Whitlock said he added some support parts because Gordon was a terrible piano player. Rita said the same and said Gordon wasn't much of a song writer either but Clapton loved his drumming so he got hired for that. I think Clapton recently said Jim Gordon is the best drummer he has worked with. I read that in the last few years.

In 1983 Jim Gordon brutally murdered his mother with a hammer and continues to be confined to a California prison for the insane.

[Edited on 5/12/2020 by blackey]

 

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  posted on 5/12/2020 at 12:31 PM
quote:
Just did some digging and Rita Coolidge came out a few years ago saying that her then boyfriend Jim Gordon stole that song from her. She said Eric Clapton wrote the main part of the song then they tacked on the coda. When Rita heard it the first time on the radio, she immediately recognized that part as her song "Time" which was presented to Clapton as a demo. Rita said she wrote the melody and the bridge by herself and Jim Gordon contributed little to it.

She tells the story here. https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/7318951/rita-coolidge-layla -memoir-delta-lady-eric-clapton-derek-dominos

Rita's sister Priscilla was married to Booker T. Jones and they recorded the song together a few years after Layla, with its original title and lyrics. It's clearly the exact same piece of music, so it's kind of crazy that this was kept so quiet for 40 years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IJPLcwHOes

quote:
And in recent years Bobby Whitlock has admited that one of the world's most famous piano solos in rock history is mostly Jim Gordon.

I don't think that's a recent admission. I've known it ever since I first heard Layla, and that was probably 25 years ago.

[Edited on 5/13/2020 by Marley]

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/13/2020 at 09:07 AM
Here's more on Jim Gordon from Wikipedia. According to this, Gordon and Rita Coolidge were in a relationship for awhile............but it didn't end well.

quote:

Mental health
Gordon developed schizophrenia and began to hear voices, including those of his mother, which compelled him to starve himself and prevented him from sleeping, relaxing or playing drums.[8] His physicians misdiagnosed the problems and instead treated him for alcohol abuse.[citation needed]

While on tour with Joe Cocker in the early 1970s, Gordon reportedly punched his then-girlfriend Rita Coolidge in a hotel hallway, thereby ending their relationship.[9]

Murder of mother, conviction and incarceration
On June 3, 1983, he attacked his 72-year-old mother, Osa Marie Gordon, with a hammer before fatally stabbing her with a butcher knife; he claimed that a voice told him to kill her.[7][10][11]

Only after his arrest for murder was Gordon properly diagnosed with schizophrenia. At his trial, the court accepted that he had acute schizophrenia, but he was not allowed to use an insanity defense because of changes to California law due to the Insanity Defense Reform Act.[8]

On July 10, 1984, Gordon was sentenced to 16 years to life in prison.[12] He was first eligible for parole in 1991, but parole has been denied several times. At a 2005 hearing, he claimed his mother was still alive. In 2014, he declined to attend his hearing and was denied parole until at least 2018. A Los Angeles deputy district attorney stated at the hearing that he was still "seriously psychologically incapacitated" and "a danger when he is not taking his medication".[13] In November 2017, Gordon was rediagnosed with schizophrenia. On March 7, 2018, Gordon was denied parole for the tenth time and is tentatively scheduled to become eligible again in March 2021.[14] As of 2018, he is serving his sentence
at the California Medical Facility, a medical and psychiatric prison in Vacaville, California.[15]


 

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  posted on 5/13/2020 at 09:59 AM
Awful story behind one of the prettiest pieces of music ever recorded. Dowd must have really had a lot of extra bs to deal with. Other than Duane, the impression I am getting from that bunch thru the echoes of time is pure @ss-holery.
 

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  posted on 5/13/2020 at 09:59 AM
It's a very upsetting and very sad story.
 

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  posted on 5/13/2020 at 10:41 AM
Yes that is the wildest and scariest rock story I've heard. Think of the money Rita Coolidge missed getting. And Gordon's cut is waisted. Hopefully Rita or some one in Gordon 's mothers family gets it.

I remember reading people saying for years that was Bobby Whitlock playing on the coda. And Butch Trucks during an interview while they were recording Seven Turns that the piano Bobby Whitlock played on Layla is in the next room at Criteria in Miami.

Wow obviously Claptom did the right thing when he withdrew from playing for some time and left those people and Duane did the right thing when he declined to join the Dominos. Maybe he would still be alive now if he had been doing a show with them instead of being on break in October, 1971.

All these years I thought Clapton and Gordon wrote Layla but in truth Clapton wrote all of it and the coda was tacked on later and Gordon didn't write much of that either. Stole it from Rita Coolidge.

 

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  posted on 5/13/2020 at 10:46 AM
Also I didn't know Robert Stigwood was demanding and could be nasty and mean. Not who Clapton should have joined for manager. Sounds like a Twiggs.

 

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  posted on 5/13/2020 at 10:51 AM
quote:
Yes that is the wildest and scariest rock story I've heard. Think of the money Rita Coolidge missed getting. And Gordon's cut is waisted. Hopefully Rita or some one in Gordon 's mothers family gets it.



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"There was no way Jim could have forgotten we’d written the song together. If I sound bitter, I’m not. “Layla” has generated hundreds of thousands of dollars in songwriting royalties -- maybe millions -- over the years for Eric. But I know that part of Jim’s share actually went to his daughter, Amy. And that, finally, was how I was able to deal with it, just knowing that she had something from her dad."

All these years I thought Clapton and Gordon wrote Layla but in truth Clapton wrote all of it and the coda was tacked on later and Gordon didn't write much of that either. Stole it from Rita Coolidge.


[Edited on 5/13/2020 by Wayne]

 

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  posted on 5/13/2020 at 10:52 AM
https://youtu.be/t54NeRX03_o

Here they are. Watch that drummer Johnny!! Don't get too close.

 

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  posted on 5/13/2020 at 02:00 PM
quote:
I know that part of Jim’s share actually went to his daughter, Amy. And that, finally, was how I was able to deal with it, just knowing that she had something from her dad."

That's very thoughtful. I'm glad it helped her come to terms with it, not that she had much choice. But I didn't know that she'd played her song for Clapton, and that puts him in a different light, to me, because that's the second person who contributed to Layla and didn't get a penny for it. We know Clapton promised Duane a cut of the royalties on the album and they never materialized until Galadrielle pursued it in recent-ish years, and then there's this story. When I thought that only happened to Duane, I though maybe Clapton just wasn't paying attention to business and finances because he was a mess at the time. Knowing Rita Coolidge also deserved money she didn't get and that Clapton's manager told her to get lost, you might start to wonder if that manager was doing what his client wanted him to do in both of those cases.

[Edited on 5/13/2020 by Marley]

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/13/2020 at 10:02 PM
Excuse me while I physically assault you and steal your chops
 

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  posted on 5/14/2020 at 12:14 AM
Lesson rarely learned in the music industry especially in that era. When you are high and playing is smoking and someone says "we'll work out the details later" then you better have fun because you won't get paid.

 

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  posted on 5/14/2020 at 06:04 AM
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Lesson rarely learned in the music industry especially in that era. When you are high and playing is smoking and someone says "we'll work out the details later" then you better have fun because you won't get paid.


Kinda was thinking the same thing.

 

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  posted on 5/14/2020 at 01:32 PM
To Dowd's credit (according to one of the bios I read, can't remember which), he and Ertugan pulled Duane and Gregg aside summer of 71 and told them they needed to stop - not only were they wasting Dowd's time, but they were throwing their careers and lives away. He then gave Parker, Holliday among others as examples.

 

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  posted on 5/17/2020 at 06:50 AM
It is very easy to knock the sound of an album recorded nearly 50 years ago like Layla. Tom Dowd did an excellent job with the tools available. And like all older recordings it depends on which version and equipment you listen to it on. There is no doubt that my original 1970 vinyl two disc LP is the truer sound. But listening to hi resolution versions through studio quality headphones or balanced IEM, to me the 20th anniversary edition is the best. This remastered version brought the guitars forward and with the IEM, you to get to hear all the guitars as they would have sounded on the day.
And another point on the album, Bobby Whitlock like Carl Radle and Jim Gordon however good musicians they were and whatever their contribution they were only sidemen to the two greatest white blues guitarist of all time.

 
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  posted on 5/17/2020 at 08:33 AM
That is true. Eric and Duane are the stars on that album.

Same with Duane and Dickey. AlPaul interviewing Reese Wyman both agreed that Duane and Dickey are the best twin lead guitar team for this kind of music. Not Warren and Derek.....who did a great job recreating what Duane and Dickey did the best.

 

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  posted on 5/17/2020 at 10:12 AM
Recreating, replicating, imitating, original band uppermost in mind during shows etc
Never heard any of that in this century’s ABB
Warren & Derek helped forge a fantastic sound that gave the band its own identity irrespective of its origins - just my .02 cents worth

 

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  posted on 5/17/2020 at 01:17 PM
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All that matters to me when it comes to LS and guitars.

The best player that they ever had died in that plane crash sadly. Steve Gaines added so much to the band in such a short time with them. I will disagree with Bullets being the best sounding. Street Survivors is to me - the tightest that they ever were.

Also Gaines added song writing and singing to the mix also.

Sad


He's my favorite player from the band also. Awesome all around performer and songwriter.

 

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  posted on 5/17/2020 at 02:35 PM
Yes I too would say Gaines was their best player. And it was over before we got to enjoy it.

Stephen the 21st century Allman Brothers created and forged it's own sound and idenity? And irrespective of what the original band and Duane and Dickey did? So to you the Allman Brothers is the 21st century band and the original band was a different, separate unit that just happened to use the same name?

Well what was the deal with pictures of the original band on the screen behind them? And what are they doing playing all those songs from the original band or the Chuck Lamar lineup? Why didn't they created their own just as Butch wanted ( except with Butch it was only Dickey's songs he wanted axed).

I guess that is why Derek and Warren never topped what Dickey and Duane did with those songs on Fillmore East and Eat A Peach. Derek and Warren were trying to forge and create the new band's sound from scratch and it just fell a little short.

Link me a One Way Out, Statesboro Blues, In Memory of Elizabeth Reed, You Don't Love Me etc by the 21st century band that tops what is on those live tracks from 1971 and 72. Love to hear it.

And I say that with all due respect to Derek and Warren who are fantastic players. If they topped what Duane and Dickey did together in 1970 and 71 then I haven't heard it so far.

[Edited on 5/17/2020 by blackey]

 

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