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Author: Subject: Opening Up America Again

True Peach



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  posted on 5/1/2020 at 05:57 PM
It’s About Time - thank you Mr McConnell
“The Country Needs Sports”

“We’ve all missed that during the pandemic, and the sooner we can get at least some of our sports - and I think the one eligible to begin first would be baseball - it would be a great morale booster for the country & an indication that we’re going to begin to get back to normal”

I don’t see how anyone could disagree
We’ve done our part, now it’s time to have our lives back
It will be downright lunacy not to have hoop/puck seasons - have conceded no baseball, but if there’s been no change in this thing by say summer, the only change is to give normal life a go again

Sports is the way to start the process of opening up America again!

[Edited on 5/1/2020 by Stephen]

 

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“Man in the scheme of life we ain’t got no contract” - Butch 2000
“Boston has always been one of our most righteous gigs” - BO 1971

 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/1/2020 at 06:56 PM
"now it's time to have our lives back"

It's important that we don't negate everything we have done and every sacrifice people have made up to this point, or it was all for nothing. Everyone wants to be back, and I want to get on the road to recovery. We're going to walk before we run. A lot of people are going to throw caution to the wind, but most people I believe will be responsible. We have to trust people with some judgement. Not everyone is going to be careful, some people will be extra careful. We can't make everyone do the same thing. Like I said, we'll get what we get out of it. If more of us act appropriately than otherwise we can get through this and continue with further openings and relaxing. One step at a time.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/2/2020 at 08:55 AM
My statement is as apolitical as I can make it: We're not ready. Georgia Governor Simp is pretty much forcing this on our state. Restaurateurs from Atlanta to Savannah are advising so.

I know everybody is in a hurry for our lives to get back to normal, but the measures that are in place (self-quarantine, 6' social distancing and (for now ... maybe a little longer) no congregating in public ARE WORKING! As bad as this sucks, I firmly believe we need another few weeks (at least) of this.

I predicted weeks ago - and have since been "agreed with" by Dr. Birx - we are going to experience a new spike that will likely cause the shutdown of stores and malls - and overload the livin' $hit out of "on-line" establishments - that will likely result in another economy crash due to THE LOSS OF CHRISTMAS/HOLIDAY RETAIL. You have no idea how much I'd love to be wrong on this.

 

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People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 5/2/2020 at 11:22 AM
quote:
"now it's time to have our lives back"

It's important that we don't negate everything we have done and every sacrifice people have made up to this point, or it was all for nothing. Everyone wants to be back, and I want to get on the road to recovery. We're going to walk before we run. A lot of people are going to throw caution to the wind, but most people I believe will be responsible. We have to trust people with some judgement. Not everyone is going to be careful, some people will be extra careful. We can't make everyone do the same thing. Like I said, we'll get what we get out of it. If more of us act appropriately than otherwise we can get through this and continue with further openings and relaxing. One step at a time.


+1 Well said Nebish. Agree with your mask take on your other recent post.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 5/2/2020 at 02:12 PM
An ESPN analysis predicted that
“The sudden disappearance of sports will cost $12 billion in revenue and hundreds of thousands of jobs, an economic catastrophe that could more than double if the college & NFL schedules are shut down this fall”

& that’s just in sports - so that’s the other very upsetting part of the virus -
We’re walking w/eyes wide open into an abyss of economic disaster worse than the Great Depression


[Edited on 5/2/2020 by Stephen]

 

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"We improvise a lot better playin music than we do talkin” - Dickey 1989
“Man in the scheme of life we ain’t got no contract” - Butch 2000
“Boston has always been one of our most righteous gigs” - BO 1971

 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/2/2020 at 02:34 PM
Just back from a beach drive-by.

Despite the signage on the causeway that reads (in English): BEACHES OPEN FOR EXERCISE ONLY. NO CHAIRS, COOLERS. TENTS OR TABLES ... the beach is packed with "tourons" doing these and other activities. A drive through the village (area with pier, restaurants, bars etc) revealed more tourons lined up tightly to enter establishments that are now open for business as per our Unstable Genius Governor.

I'd bet a testicle that most of these tourons are the very folks who were stating that this virus was nothing more than the flu several weeks ago.

I'll bet the other testicle that in about 6-8 weeks, some of these tourons are going to file lawsuits against the state of Georgia and every single dining establishment after they develop Coronavirus - because not enough steps were taken to protect them.

Any takers? I've only got two testicles!

 

____________________
Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/2/2020 at 03:27 PM
quote:
Just back from a beach drive-by.

Despite the signage on the causeway that reads (in English): BEACHES OPEN FOR EXERCISE ONLY. NO CHAIRS, COOLERS. TENTS OR TABLES ... the beach is packed with "tourons" doing these and other activities. A drive through the village (area with pier, restaurants, bars etc) revealed more tourons lined up tightly to enter establishments that are now open for business as per our Unstable Genius Governor.

I'd bet a testicle that most of these tourons are the very folks who were stating that this virus was nothing more than the flu several weeks ago.

I'll bet the other testicle that in about 6-8 weeks, some of these tourons are going to file lawsuits against the state of Georgia and every single dining establishment after they develop Coronavirus - because not enough steps were taken to protect them.

Any takers? I've only got two testicles!

This shouldn't surprise anyone. These are the people that rank their "freedoms", economy, and health in that order. That's assuming they even think instead of just act or react. No doubt some of these will learn that a few minutes in the sun didn't reward them well if they contract Covid. One person in a crowd can do significant damage to many.

Have the GA numbers met the prez's 14 day guidelines?

It will be an interesting observation to see how the numbers play out in the next several weeks as more & more people come out. I hope the numbers drop, but would it surprise anyone if there is cause and effect of more cases and death? It's a hard price to pay. The good doctors say what they do for a reason. Trump and governors say what they do for a different reason.




 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/2/2020 at 03:48 PM
quote:
I'll bet the other testicle that in about 6-8 weeks, some of these tourons are going to file lawsuits against the state of Georgia and every single dining establishment after they develop Coronavirus - because not enough steps were taken to protect them.


Good luck with any lawsuit filed against any business where the core is "not enough steps were taken to protect them."..Dining out is a choice and diners should be well aware of the risks after 75 days of the media bombarding them with the death tolls.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/2/2020 at 05:01 PM
All this hand wringing and fear about getting the virus, spreading the virus, keeping the country shut down, waiting for a cure, etc. will almost certainly be seen in hindsight as one of the stupidest reactions mankind has ever had to a threat. We've let fear overcome reason, and we over-reacted to something that is turning out to be no worse for the majority than an average seasonal flu. While there are certainly groups that require more care and closer attention, the vast majority are at no more risk of dying than they are every year from the flu. The difference this time is that our insane over-reaction by shutting down most of the world's economy will have more devastating impact to the lives and well being of far more people than the actual illness itself.

quote:
The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation

The tragedy of the COVID-19 pandemic appears to be entering the containment phase. Tens of thousands of Americans have died, and Americans are now desperate for sensible policymakers who have the courage to ignore the panic and rely on facts. Leaders must examine accumulated data to see what has actually happened, rather than keep emphasizing hypothetical projections; combine that empirical evidence with fundamental principles of biology established for decades; and then thoughtfully restore the country to function.

Five key facts are being ignored by those calling for continuing the near-total lockdown.

Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19.

The recent Stanford University antibody study now estimates that the fatality rate if infected is likely 0.1 to 0.2 percent, a risk far lower than previous World Health Organization estimates that were 20 to 30 times higher and that motivated isolation policies.

In New York City, an epicenter of the pandemic with more than one-third of all U.S. deaths, the rate of death for people 18 to 45 years old is 0.01 percent, or 10 per 100,000 in the population. On the other hand, people aged 75 and over have a death rate 80 times that. For people under 18 years old, the rate of death is zero per 100,000.

Of all fatal cases in New York state, two-thirds were in patients over 70 years of age; more than 95 percent were over 50 years of age; and about 90 percent of all fatal cases had an underlying illness. Of 6,570 confirmed COVID-19 deaths fully investigated for underlying conditions to date, 6,520, or 99.2 percent, had an underlying illness. If you do not already have an underlying chronic condition, your chances of dying are small, regardless of age. And young adults and children in normal health have almost no risk of any serious illness from COVID-19.

Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding.

We can learn about hospital utilization from data from New York City, the hotbed of COVID-19 with more than 34,600 hospitalizations to date. For those under 18 years of age, hospitalization from the virus is 0.01 percent, or 11 per 100,000 people; for those 18 to 44 years old, hospitalization is 0.1 percent. Even for people ages 65 to 74, only 1.7 percent were hospitalized. Of 4,103 confirmed COVID-19 patients with symptoms bad enough to seek medical care, Dr. Leora Horwitz of NYU Medical Center concluded "age is far and away the strongest risk factor for hospitalization." Even early WHO reports noted that 80 percent of all cases were mild, and more recent studies show a far more widespread rate of infection and lower rate of serious illness. Half of all people testing positive for infection have no symptoms at all. The vast majority of younger, otherwise healthy people do not need significant medical care if they catch this infection.

Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem.

We know from decades of medical science that infection itself allows people to generate an immune response — antibodies — so that the infection is controlled throughout the population by “herd immunity.” Indeed, that is the main purpose of widespread immunization in other viral diseases — to assist with population immunity. In this virus, we know that medical care is not even necessary for the vast majority of people who are infected. It is so mild that half of infected people are asymptomatic, shown in early data from the Diamond Princess ship, and then in Iceland and Italy. That has been falsely portrayed as a problem requiring mass isolation. In fact, infected people without severe illness are the immediately available vehicle for establishing widespread immunity. By transmitting the virus to others in the low-risk group who then generate antibodies, they block the network of pathways toward the most vulnerable people, ultimately ending the threat. Extending whole-population isolation would directly prevent that widespread immunity from developing.

Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections.

Critical health care for millions of Americans is being ignored and people are dying to accommodate “potential” COVID-19 patients and for fear of spreading the disease. Most states and many hospitals abruptly stopped “nonessential” procedures and surgery. That prevented diagnoses of life-threatening diseases, like cancer screening, biopsies of tumors now undiscovered and potentially deadly brain aneurysms. Treatments, including emergency care, for the most serious illnesses were also missed. Cancer patients deferred chemotherapy. An estimated 80 percent of brain surgery cases were skipped. Acute stroke and heart attack patients missed their only chances for treatment, some dying and many now facing permanent disability.

Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures.

The overwhelming evidence all over the world consistently shows that a clearly defined group — older people and others with underlying conditions — is more likely to have a serious illness requiring hospitalization and more likely to die from COVID-19. Knowing that, it is a commonsense, achievable goal to target isolation policy to that group, including strictly monitoring those who interact with them. Nursing home residents, the highest risk, should be the most straightforward to systematically protect from infected people, given that they already live in confined places with highly restricted entry.

The appropriate policy, based on fundamental biology and the evidence already in hand, is to institute a more focused strategy like some outlined in the first place: Strictly protect the known vulnerable, self-isolate the mildly sick and open most workplaces and small businesses with some prudent large-group precautions. This would allow the essential socializing to generate immunity among those with minimal risk of serious consequence, while saving lives, preventing overcrowding of hospitals and limiting the enormous harms compounded by continued total isolation. Let’s stop underemphasizing empirical evidence while instead doubling down on hypothetical models. Facts matter.

Scott W. Atlas, MD, is the David and Joan Traitel Senior Fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution and the former chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University Medical Center.


https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-pani c-and-end-the-total-isolation

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 5/2/2020 at 05:48 PM
quote:
All this hand wringing and fear about getting the virus, spreading the virus, keeping the country shut down, waiting for a cure, etc. will almost certainly be seen in hindsight as one of the stupidest reactions mankind has ever had to a threat. We've let fear overcome reason, and we over-reacted to something that is turning out to be no worse for the majority than an average seasonal flu. While there are certainly groups that require more care and closer attention, the vast majority are at no more risk of dying than they are every year from the flu. The difference this time is that our insane over-reaction by shutting down most of the world's economy will have more devastating impact to the lives and well being of far more people than the actual illness itself.

quote:
The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation

The tragedy of the COVID-19 pandemic appears to be entering the containment phase. Tens of thousands of Americans have died, and Americans are now desperate for sensible policymakers who have the courage to ignore the panic and rely on facts. Leaders must examine accumulated data to see what has actually happened, rather than keep emphasizing hypothetical projections; combine that empirical evidence with fundamental principles of biology established for decades; and then thoughtfully restore the country to function.

Five key facts are being ignored by those calling for continuing the near-total lockdown.

Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19.

The recent Stanford University antibody study now estimates that the fatality rate if infected is likely 0.1 to 0.2 percent, a risk far lower than previous World Health Organization estimates that were 20 to 30 times higher and that motivated isolation policies.

In New York City, an epicenter of the pandemic with more than one-third of all U.S. deaths, the rate of death for people 18 to 45 years old is 0.01 percent, or 10 per 100,000 in the population. On the other hand, people aged 75 and over have a death rate 80 times that. For people under 18 years old, the rate of death is zero per 100,000.

Of all fatal cases in New York state, two-thirds were in patients over 70 years of age; more than 95 percent were over 50 years of age; and about 90 percent of all fatal cases had an underlying illness. Of 6,570 confirmed COVID-19 deaths fully investigated for underlying conditions to date, 6,520, or 99.2 percent, had an underlying illness. If you do not already have an underlying chronic condition, your chances of dying are small, regardless of age. And young adults and children in normal health have almost no risk of any serious illness from COVID-19.

Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding.

We can learn about hospital utilization from data from New York City, the hotbed of COVID-19 with more than 34,600 hospitalizations to date. For those under 18 years of age, hospitalization from the virus is 0.01 percent, or 11 per 100,000 people; for those 18 to 44 years old, hospitalization is 0.1 percent. Even for people ages 65 to 74, only 1.7 percent were hospitalized. Of 4,103 confirmed COVID-19 patients with symptoms bad enough to seek medical care, Dr. Leora Horwitz of NYU Medical Center concluded "age is far and away the strongest risk factor for hospitalization." Even early WHO reports noted that 80 percent of all cases were mild, and more recent studies show a far more widespread rate of infection and lower rate of serious illness. Half of all people testing positive for infection have no symptoms at all. The vast majority of younger, otherwise healthy people do not need significant medical care if they catch this infection.

Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem.

We know from decades of medical science that infection itself allows people to generate an immune response — antibodies — so that the infection is controlled throughout the population by “herd immunity.” Indeed, that is the main purpose of widespread immunization in other viral diseases — to assist with population immunity. In this virus, we know that medical care is not even necessary for the vast majority of people who are infected. It is so mild that half of infected people are asymptomatic, shown in early data from the Diamond Princess ship, and then in Iceland and Italy. That has been falsely portrayed as a problem requiring mass isolation. In fact, infected people without severe illness are the immediately available vehicle for establishing widespread immunity. By transmitting the virus to others in the low-risk group who then generate antibodies, they block the network of pathways toward the most vulnerable people, ultimately ending the threat. Extending whole-population isolation would directly prevent that widespread immunity from developing.

Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections.

Critical health care for millions of Americans is being ignored and people are dying to accommodate “potential” COVID-19 patients and for fear of spreading the disease. Most states and many hospitals abruptly stopped “nonessential” procedures and surgery. That prevented diagnoses of life-threatening diseases, like cancer screening, biopsies of tumors now undiscovered and potentially deadly brain aneurysms. Treatments, including emergency care, for the most serious illnesses were also missed. Cancer patients deferred chemotherapy. An estimated 80 percent of brain surgery cases were skipped. Acute stroke and heart attack patients missed their only chances for treatment, some dying and many now facing permanent disability.

Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures.

The overwhelming evidence all over the world consistently shows that a clearly defined group — older people and others with underlying conditions — is more likely to have a serious illness requiring hospitalization and more likely to die from COVID-19. Knowing that, it is a commonsense, achievable goal to target isolation policy to that group, including strictly monitoring those who interact with them. Nursing home residents, the highest risk, should be the most straightforward to systematically protect from infected people, given that they already live in confined places with highly restricted entry.

The appropriate policy, based on fundamental biology and the evidence already in hand, is to institute a more focused strategy like some outlined in the first place: Strictly protect the known vulnerable, self-isolate the mildly sick and open most workplaces and small businesses with some prudent large-group precautions. This would allow the essential socializing to generate immunity among those with minimal risk of serious consequence, while saving lives, preventing overcrowding of hospitals and limiting the enormous harms compounded by continued total isolation. Let’s stop underemphasizing empirical evidence while instead doubling down on hypothetical models. Facts matter.

Scott W. Atlas, MD, is the David and Joan Traitel Senior Fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution and the former chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University Medical Center.


https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-pani c-and-end-the-total-isolation



Totally agree and I have been saying it for weeks. Dangerous group think has overrun the public. Scared to go to a beach? Get a grip. The other day the state of Maine had like 35 patients TOTAL with covid-19 in their hospitals yet their Governor extended much of their lockdown. I am stunned at the willing acceptance of Governor, Mayoral and health director edicts often with no constitutional or scientific basis and anecdotal stories about random cities in 1918 are not a scientific basis for such drastic measures. We turned a 79 year old scienstist into a reality star who can't pass up an interview all the while a 79 year old man who works 19 hours a day gets to tell everyone over the age of 60 they are in danger. Yet none of these measures protected our folks in nursing homes. Everyone wants to complain about Trump ( and I am no fan ) yet all the Governors and Mayors as well spend all their time telling all of us what an amazing job they and their teams are doing. It is all remarkable.

[Edited on 5/2/2020 by tbomike]

 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/2/2020 at 05:52 PM
Have never fully understood the correlation of shutting down commerce and as a way to fight the virus
Aren’t we just making it twice as hard on ourselves? What benefit does a ruined economy have in stopping the spread?
Good read, & re the 1st paragraph, FDR’s words come to mind
“The only thing we have to fear is fear itself”

I say reopen everything Memorial Day wknd - people can still wear masks etc, they can just remove them when they go out to eat, cheer at a game etc, & do social distancing on their own etc

The 6 feet apart/self quarantining/stay at home approach hasn’t been effective - resuscitating/restarting the economy must now take equal priority w/finding a cure imo

 

____________________
"We improvise a lot better playin music than we do talkin” - Dickey 1989
“Man in the scheme of life we ain’t got no contract” - Butch 2000
“Boston has always been one of our most righteous gigs” - BO 1971

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 5/2/2020 at 06:00 PM
Seriously folks don't think this is a public health threat?

Food lines a mile long in America’s second-wealthiest state

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/food-lines-a-mile-long-in-americas-second -wealthiest-state/ar-BB13wa7b

Or this?

Pay Cuts, Furloughs, Redeployment for Doctors and Hospital Staff
— Health systems see massive disruption from COVID-19

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85827




 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 10:23 AM
When Rowland did his latest round of member clean-up this thread got bumped off the forum, so I'll bring it back in case we want to keep it going.

[Edited on 5/3/2020 by nebish]

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 10:51 AM
quote:
Dangerous group think has overrun the public. Scared to go to a beach? Get a grip.
If you're worried about your personal well-being then don't go to the beach. Simple as that. Others who don't feel threatened should do as they please. "Group think" is a good description. But power hungry politicians (as well as foreign enemies) now see it can be used against us to suppress our freedoms and have us cower at home. A very dangerous precedent.

quote:
Seriously folks don't think this is a public health threat?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/food-lines-a-mile-long-in-americas-second -wealthiest-state/ar-BB13wa7b

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85827
Not saying it isn't a threat. Just that the response will end up being far worse than the virus itself. These are early reactions to ordering shut downs of businesses and the overall economy. Had we rode it out as we have for many past virus threats, this would not be occurring.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 12:00 PM
quote:
Seriously folks don't think this is a public health threat?


Of course it is a public health "threat"...But to what degree?..Anything that can kill is a threat and my heart goes out to anyone who has lost a loved one due to this, the flu, Cancer, heart disease or.....BUT, it does not appear to be the threat the Media and the Gov't are saying.....

We've been played, either out of ignorance, fear or something more sinister. One thing stands above all else to me, there are too many experts in the fields of Government, Health Care & Education who can't seen to agree on anything....

 

____________________
"We have to take care of the cure, that will make the problem worse, no matter what" - Joe Biden - 4/2020

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 01:19 PM
quote:
quote:
Dangerous group think has overrun the public. Scared to go to a beach? Get a grip.
If you're worried about your personal well-being then don't go to the beach. Simple as that. Others who don't feel threatened should do as they please. "Group think" is a good description. But power hungry politicians (as well as foreign enemies) now see it can be used against us to suppress our freedoms and have us cower at home. A very dangerous precedent.

quote:
Seriously folks don't think this is a public health threat?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/food-lines-a-mile-long-in-americas-second -wealthiest-state/ar-BB13wa7b

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85827
Not saying it isn't a threat. Just that the response will end up being far worse than the virus itself. These are early reactions to ordering shut downs of businesses and the overall economy. Had we rode it out as we have for many past virus threats, this would not be occurring.


Not sure but it seems like you don't recognize both my posts were and are in agreement with what you said and the article you posted. This post is just pointing out for the pro lockdown folks that I agree with your points and that post was in furtherance of your points.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 01:20 PM
quote:
quote:
Seriously folks don't think this is a public health threat?


Of course it is a public health "threat"...But to what degree?..Anything that can kill is a threat and my heart goes out to anyone who has lost a loved one due to this, the flu, Cancer, heart disease or.....BUT, it does not appear to be the threat the Media and the Gov't are saying.....

We've been played, either out of ignorance, fear or something more sinister. One thing stands above all else to me, there are too many experts in the fields of Government, Health Care & Education who can't seen to agree on anything....


You and fuji who I was posting in agreement with do not seem to have followed what I was getting at.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 04:44 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Dangerous group think has overrun the public. Scared to go to a beach? Get a grip.
If you're worried about your personal well-being then don't go to the beach. Simple as that. Others who don't feel threatened should do as they please. "Group think" is a good description. But power hungry politicians (as well as foreign enemies) now see it can be used against us to suppress our freedoms and have us cower at home. A very dangerous precedent.

quote:
Seriously folks don't think this is a public health threat?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/food-lines-a-mile-long-in-americas-second -wealthiest-state/ar-BB13wa7b

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85827
Not saying it isn't a threat. Just that the response will end up being far worse than the virus itself. These are early reactions to ordering shut downs of businesses and the overall economy. Had we rode it out as we have for many past virus threats, this would not be occurring.


Not sure but it seems like you don't recognize both my posts were and are in agreement with what you said and the article you posted. This post is just pointing out for the pro lockdown folks that I agree with your points and that post was in furtherance of your points.
I was just adding to what you said - not trying to conflict with it. Sorry it didn't come across better.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 04:51 PM
quote:
Opinion: We Wrecked Our Economy for Nothing

Imagine, if you will, an edict from your Mayor, Governor, the President, or all three. This edict targets you and 30 million other citizens simply because you are a member of a specific economic class or category of worker. Your vocation has been determined to be “non-essential.” The directive is clear. You will forgo your wages for an indeterminate period of time. You have no choice. If you fail to comply, you face fines and/or imprisonment. The stated objectives of all of this, are to preclude the medical system from being overwhelmed and to increase the lifespan of one million people, many of whom would perish within 6 months anyhow from already existing conditions.

This is exactly what has happened. The federal government has encouraged mayors and governors to enact certain “social distancing” guidelines and forbade workers in “non essential’ occupations from earning a paycheck. This has, over the past few months, caused over 30 million people to become newly unemployed and unable to feed their families. This number will continue to rise. It is not much of a reach to believe we could hit 20% unemployment…numbers we haven’t gotten to since the Great Depression.

There is little-to-no actual science behind this draconian decision. The experts told us that by sacrificing the jobs of 30 million people (and still counting) we would “flatten the curve” on new infections and thus keep our hospital system from being overwhelmed. The “experts” and their models have been proven wrong time and again throughout this debacle.

The expected tidal wave never struck the hospital system as a whole. Point of fact, because of deferred procedures put off in order to free up bed space for the expected surge, many hospitals have laid of staff and some have shut their doors…permanently. The United States is now exporting ventilators.

As more and more information comes in, we are seeing that this virus is not nearly as infectious as previously thought, and it is far less deadly. When it comes right down to it, this disease is going to end up with a Mortality Rate at or below our annual flu average. For that, we brought direct harm, pain, and suffering to 30 million other Americans.

The Chicken Little folks supporting Dr. Fauci and COL/Dr. Birx are claiming that we saved a million U.S lives by shutting down our economy. Fine. Let’s do some math. For the sake of argument, let’s agree here that without closing up our economy, the number of U.S. Fatalities would have reached 1.1 Million. Let’s also assume that by invoking Dr. Fauci’s draconian measures, we were able to cut that number down to 100,000 (I chose 1.1M and 100K in order to make the math simpler).

Bottom line? For each life allegedly saved, we as a nation, the states & localities severally, DEMANDED under threat of fines and/or imprisonment, that 30 other (non-essential) American workers forgo their paychecks. We (corporate we) told select classes of people that we were going to essentially deny them the ability to make a living…and without any sort of due process whatsoever.

Basically, the governors and mayors with the encouragement of the federal government denied the civil rights of broad swaths of the American citizenry. They abridged the right to earn a living on the unproven chance that it might save a stranger’s life. What’s worse, it wasn’t like we demanded that all of America make this sacrifice. No. We actually forced the weakest (financially) among us to carry this load. Interestingly, I find anecdotally that the folks most interested in keeping this shutdown in place until we are “perfectly safe,” aren’t the hourly wage, service industry workers who have been forced to shoulder almost this entire burden. Nope. It’s the “essential workers,” people whose occupation allows telecommuting, the media, and, of course, folks on government salaries.

Mind you, none of the above was done via legislative action, which might have made it somewhat more palatable. It was all done via executive orders, big and small. As new data comes in, we are seeing that all of this had little-to-no effect on the spread of the virus nor the number of fatalities. We trampled on the Constitution, destroyed our economy, and wrecked the lives of millions of Americans…for nothing. And we aren’t done yet.
https://www.redstate.com/darth641/2020/05/03/opinion-we-wrecked-our-economy -for-nothing/

 

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If the Ukrainians didn't know, there ain't no quid pro quo

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 05:58 PM
The latest from Bill Maher

https://youtu.be/28I5WyLp15o

 

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"We have to take care of the cure, that will make the problem worse, no matter what" - Joe Biden - 4/2020

 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 07:46 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
One of the most f*cked up posts I've ever wasted 20 seconds of my life on.


Is that how you greet a member we haven't seen for 5 years?


Is that what a member who hasn't been here for five years posts upon his return?

OK, fine. Welcome back Bruce. My 90+ year old family members, affectionately referred to as "geezers", sure are glad about your return

Better?


That's fine. He did refer to himself as a geezer for what it's worth.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 07:55 PM
quote:
quote:
Have you seen that person, driving in a car by themselves, wearing a mask?
Follow the money.


To all y'all, QUIT STARING AT ME.


I've seen that. I take mine off immediately upon leaving the store. But consider a couple things - maybe the person did not want to touch their face to take the mask off. Or maybe they had somebody in the back seat? Or they just dropped somebody off or are about to pick somebody up?

I just picked up curbside food the other day, the server came to me with a mask on, as she approached I put mine on. Maybe it made her feel a little better. Like I said earlier, if our state is going to make employees here wear masks, I feel I should too in their presence.

The first couple times I saw it I thought it was odd, but people have a right to wear a mask in their car if they want.

By the way, Pence just said in the Fox News virtual town hall "I should've worn the mask at the Mayo Clinic". I appreciate him saying that and admitting he was wrong.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 07:58 PM
quote:
Any takers? I've only got two testicles!


LOL, no thanks I don't want any part of your testicles!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 08:21 PM
quote:
When Rowland did his latest round of member clean-up this thread got bumped off the forum, so I'll bring it back in case we want to keep it going.

[Edited on 5/3/2020 by nebish]


I haven't been on in a couple days. Did I miss something? I did a quick member search and couldn't find the member name I was searching...

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/3/2020 at 08:39 PM
Myself, I am astounded at how compliant the general public has been in giving up their basic freedoms. It's really scary.

And the shaming practiced by either side is sickening.

I'm going to agree with Vince on this one. We've been played - and played on an unprecedented scale. I don't think sheeple is a bigoted term to use.

When history looks back on this, just like any other historical event is revisited, there will either be heroes or fools. It remains to be seen who will be counted among the fools. Hindsight is always 20-20.

I just want a table full of Mexican food.

 

____________________

 
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