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Author: Subject: Opening Up America Again

True Peach



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  posted on 4/28/2020 at 12:04 PM
quote:
Thanks for clarifying that with your first sentence. Had "dealing" remained, there are, as I'm sure you and everyone else here know, many messed up ways some people are "dealing" with this. Some are pretty sad.
Prior to the post from you that I quoted, I read about that nurse from NY Presbyterian Hospital in Manhattan, Lorna Breen, head of emergency department. Absolutely broke my heart. She couldn't deal with it...or live with it.

[Edited on 4/28/2020 by piacere]

[Edited on 4/28/2020 by piacere]


Yes, I do understand how that may've come across and that was not how I intended it.

Dr Lorna Breen is just so tragic. It is like war, health care employees and doctors are on the front lines. And many are and will experience PTSD, some forever unfortunately.

There are friends in health care among our forum. Some have friends or family that are doctors or nurses or aids, administrators. My sister-in-law is a nurse. I haven't had much chance to talk to her. Just normal people asked to do extraordinary things - and many places are just pressure packed, no relief, they take it home with them.

To Bhawk's point, the stay at home was to not exceed or overwhelm hospitals and in most places it has worked. Still has been a personal cost and burden for those who have had to help those who are sick. It is also why you can't just throw it all open now without precautions because that would negate the work that has been done and continue to wear on those that have already been stretched thin or exceed their ability to keep dealing with it all.

I see people on the beaches in California or Florida and it makes me mad. Everyone has a responsibility, but not everyone sees it that way. You can't get everyone to think the same. Maybe these local authorities that control the public beaches need to restrict access. There are parking lots and beach access that could be monitored, maybe you close parking lots, implement a shuttle program, do a head count for those entering the beach and close it when a certain number is listed. I don't know, our state doesn't have that problem.

If we do it right, we can relax some of our restrictions, open some businesses and still not overwhelm the hospitals. There certainly is going to still be a demand on those facilities and those people to treat new cases. I think it is about trying to manage the new cases all while relaxing restrictions. It is a balance. Since so many people never agree on how to do things I'm sure we'll probably fvck it up and make things worse. But really, it doesn't have to be that way. I'll do my part, what other people is out of my control. Governors and authorities can't be expected to keep a lid on this forever, or even much longer. More and more people are going to disobey after so long. If they can relax now there's a chance to still get people to listen. If people are just kept shuttered in longer and longer I see people just starting to do whatever they want when they want. This is just my point of view, the people I know are still willing to follow guidelines, but we can't keep doing everything we've been doing. If my state were still at peak or increasing cases, I would agree the timing is wrong. Eventually you get to a point where you have to try it, some will make the right call and some might make the wrong ones. You can't always know what is right or wrong until after you do it.


[Edited on 4/28/2020 by nebish]

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 4/28/2020 at 12:41 PM
quote:
Meanwhile, we lose a Doctor in New York. This brave and dedicated Doctor not only treated many patients, she suffered the disease herself. We whine about not being able to go to the park, we bitch because an upcoming show was cancelled ... pretty small stuff, wouldn't you say?

This poor woman had obviously just exceeded her personal stress limits by many miles. Suicide or not, she IS a hero in this mess. I've heard some real heart-breaking stories throughout all this ... but this one just about sinks my spirit.




100% on point!

 

True Peach



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  posted on 4/28/2020 at 01:32 PM
quote:
Meanwhile, we lose a Doctor in New York. This brave and dedicated Doctor not only treated many patients, she suffered the disease herself. We whine about not being able to go to the park, we bitch because an upcoming show was cancelled ... pretty small stuff, wouldn't you say?

This poor woman had obviously just exceeded her personal stress limits by many miles. Suicide or not, she IS a hero in this mess. I've heard some real heart-breaking stories throughout all this ... but this one just about sinks my spirit.




Yeah. I sometimes wonder if, because we're bombarded with numbers, we get desensitized and numb to the story behind the numbers. Occasionally one grabs you by the throat, Sandy Hook for example, that one hurt us all but generally, let's face it, we've got things to do (sarcasm intended). This woman though, this one knocked the stuffing out of me. Like you said, the park? the beach? a concert? You gotta be kidding me.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/28/2020 at 04:49 PM
quote:
Meanwhile, we lose a Doctor in New York. This brave and dedicated Doctor not only treated many patients, she suffered the disease herself. We whine about not being able to go to the park, we bitch because an upcoming show was cancelled ... pretty small stuff, wouldn't you say?

This poor woman had obviously just exceeded her personal stress limits by many miles. Suicide or not, she IS a hero in this mess. I've heard some real heart-breaking stories throughout all this ... but this one just about sinks my spirit.




It's a war time stress level situation. She reportedly told her family patients would die in the ambulances before they even got into the E.R. Doctors like everyone else have certain expectations, they want to help people and save people, when they can't the result is stress and conflict. In a war zone there's no time to deal with your emotions, you just have to function. It's sad and tragic what happened to her.

Anyone else in a situation like that should walk away. Quit the job. Get sleep, eat right and look at other options for work.

I worked in the 168th Street hospital for 5 years. Management changes, budget cuts because of federal Medicaid cuts, layoffs, 1199 contract crises, capital budget expenditures freezes when o.r. equipment was needed etc.etc. Two years after I was on the verge of 3 new ulcers, I left. It was a beautiful day, I felt good and I knew if I remained there I would be over-extended trying to fix a program that needed fixing or help with a new program startup. I finally realized I did enough and I was not sacrificing my health anymore for any programs or people. I did work in another hospital for 2 years and then left to pursue private sector work.

People can get so caught up in their jobs, it can be bad for them. You have to work to live, but living making work the most important thing in your life is not right. Doctors are God's hands but they are not God. He decides who lives and who dies and when and how. When Doctors see patients recover they get a sense that they saved them. In a crisis when so many die, this takes a heavy toll on them.

The hospitals need to stop demanding crisis ridden Doctors and Nurses work too many hours. An average nurse is working 12 hrs. On. I know one who works 3 twelve hour days back to back on a covid unit. If I were running it I would say no more than 9 hours five days a week and they must take a lunch break. Hospitals have to stop treating their Doctors and Nurses like horses in a race, just whip them and they'll do more.

There will be more waves of Covid-19. One researcher said 3 more waves. In a 24 hour day there should be 3 Doctors and 3 nurses for a 24 shift. Start there, then work on the rest of it. I cannot even imagine what the resident- Doctors are going thru.









[Edited on 4/28/2020 by gina]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 4/28/2020 at 05:30 PM
Doctors in places like New York City ... and Albany, GA are basically attempting to make "human levees" of themselves - trying to hold back billions and billions of gallons of rushing flood waters in the form of coronavirus patients. The current situation makes the military war-time madness (depicted in films like MASH) seem like a tea party at times.

Gina - good on you for years of service towards others! Walking away seems like a plan. I'll never second-guess any medical professional who says that they feel stress.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 4/28/2020 at 07:58 PM
quote:
quote:
Meanwhile, we lose a Doctor in New York. This brave and dedicated Doctor not only treated many patients, she suffered the disease herself. We whine about not being able to go to the park, we bitch because an upcoming show was cancelled ... pretty small stuff, wouldn't you say?

This poor woman had obviously just exceeded her personal stress limits by many miles. Suicide or not, she IS a hero in this mess. I've heard some real heart-breaking stories throughout all this ... but this one just about sinks my spirit.


100% on point!


Meanwhile, Pence is wandering around Mayo without a mask even though it's his administration's guidelines & Mayo's hospital policy - talking to doctors & elbow bumping a patient giving plasma. Why isn't he distancing & wearing a mask? Because he's the VP & gets tested regularly. Huh? What's the downside of wearing one? What about lead by example? What if he contracted the virus after his last test? Mayo offered him one & he said no, thanks.


 

True Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 10:30 AM
Pence wearing a mask would've been an example of LEADERSHIP BY EXAMPLE. Something neither he nor his boss is very big on. Of course, Pence obviously opts for a mask that covers the entire face - including eyes. I suppose it would've been difficult for folks to be inspired if they couldn't see his face.

 

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Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 10:39 AM
quote:
Pence wearing a mask would've been an example of LEADERSHIP BY EXAMPLE.


For an administration focused on optics, this was a chance for the VP/COVID19 Task Force Director to wear a mask according to the administration's own guidelines plus the hospital's policy & practice distancing. There's no downside at all. It's not like they couldn't use some good PR about now.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 10:56 AM
quote:
quote:
Pence wearing a mask would've been an example of LEADERSHIP BY EXAMPLE.


For an administration focused on optics, this was a chance for the VP/COVID19 Task Force Director to wear a mask according to the administration's own guidelines plus the hospital's policy & practice distancing. There's no downside at all. It's not like they couldn't use some good PR about now.


Its no different from Obama visiting the Gulf beaches swept clean of tar balls during the BP Oil spill crisis. Its about optics. Obama's gang wanted the public to believe that things weren't so bad. I guess the same applies here. instead of tar balls its covid patients.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 11:08 AM
quote:
Meanwhile, we lose a Doctor in New York. This brave and dedicated Doctor not only treated many patients, she suffered the disease herself. We whine about not being able to go to the park, we bitch because an upcoming show was cancelled ... pretty small stuff, wouldn't you say?

This poor woman had obviously just exceeded her personal stress limits by many miles. Suicide or not, she IS a hero in this mess. I've heard some real heart-breaking stories throughout all this ... but this one just about sinks my spirit.




My son is an EMT in Syracuse.

He left yesterday morning for a three week assignment in NYC.

I hope he survives this and doesn't get a case of PTSD like his disabled veteran sister.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 11:09 AM
quote:
Pence not wearing a mask while he thanked Mayo Clinic health workers, the vice president and his teamĖas well as Gov. Walz (D)


No doubt! Forget the Pence mask thing, minor detail. The real sick part of this is Pence THANKED A DEMOCRAT. He must be getting soft.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 11:11 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Pence wearing a mask would've been an example of LEADERSHIP BY EXAMPLE.


For an administration focused on optics, this was a chance for the VP/COVID19 Task Force Director to wear a mask according to the administration's own guidelines plus the hospital's policy & practice distancing. There's no downside at all. It's not like they couldn't use some good PR about now.


Its no different from Obama visiting the Gulf beaches swept clean of tar balls during the BP Oil spill crisis. Its about optics. Obama's gang wanted the public to believe that things weren't so bad. I guess the same applies here. instead of tar balls its covid patients.


But Obama.

Classic.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 11:13 AM
Tar balls. Even more classic, and Freudian.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 11:43 AM
quote:
But Obama.

Classic.


And hilarious!..Simply because it is no different than the little club here that takes every opportunity and then some to turn everything into a "But Trump" response.

But still classic.

 

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That Pro-Abortion chant, "My body, my choice"....Can this be applied to the wearing of masks?

 

True Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 12:11 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Pence wearing a mask would've been an example of LEADERSHIP BY EXAMPLE.


For an administration focused on optics, this was a chance for the VP/COVID19 Task Force Director to wear a mask according to the administration's own guidelines plus the hospital's policy & practice distancing. There's no downside at all. It's not like they couldn't use some good PR about now.


Its no different from Obama visiting the Gulf beaches swept clean of tar balls during the BP Oil spill crisis. Its about optics. Obama's gang wanted the public to believe that things weren't so bad. I guess the same applies here. instead of tar balls its covid patients.


Apples and ... fuel pumps! We are in a situation where EVERY American should be observing extreme sanitary practices. The tar balls were (and still are!) a nasty problem. But I haven't heard of anybody accidentally inhaling one or anything. I do not think that a mask would've been of much use.

Part of the "magic" of the Coronavirus is its ability to go unrecognized during the initial stages. From my understanding (and I've read VOLUMES on this), it is during this early, unrecognizable stage that the virus is most contagious. In my mind, Pence screwed the pooch on this one.

If Obama was trying to illustrate (or just suggest) that the coast was clear or not is one thing (and I am not saying that he was right or wrong). One thing that we KNOW right now about the Coronavirus is that the coast is most certainly NOT clear! This virus is still very much a live and hungry wild beast looking to feed!
Pence should really be working hard to drive that point home.

 

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Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 12:18 PM
quote:
We are in a situation where EVERY American should be observing extreme sanitary practices.


Certainly. Wash your hands with hot water Check. Social distancing. Check.

Masks?.... Up to the individual

 

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That Pro-Abortion chant, "My body, my choice"....Can this be applied to the wearing of masks?

 

True Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 12:28 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Pence wearing a mask would've been an example of LEADERSHIP BY EXAMPLE.





Its no different from Obama visiting the Gulf beaches swept clean of tar balls during the BP Oil spill crisis. Its about optics. Obama's gang wanted the public to believe that things weren't so bad. I guess the same applies here. instead of tar balls its covid patients.


Apples and ... fuel pumps! We are in a situation where EVERY American should be observing extreme sanitary practices. The tar balls were (and still are!) a nasty problem. But I haven't heard of anybody accidentally inhaling one or anything. I do not think that a mask would've been of much use.

Part of the "magic" of the Coronavirus is its ability to go unrecognized during the initial stages. From my understanding (and I've read VOLUMES on this), it is during this early, unrecognizable stage that the virus is most contagious.


Yes - itís very much like cancer in that respect - there is no telling & we just donít know where & how it originates -
Have seen those tar balls b4, they are yicky alright & smelled bad too as I recall


 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 02:06 PM
quote:
[you can't be serious. we know the spread of the virus comes from close contact with other people. it's this type of stupidity that hurts America.


It's this lack of leadership that hurts America. The Director of the US COVID-19 Task Force flaunting the policy of the hospital in which he was visiting is not ok. Mayo tweeted that they gave him a mask; he declined. No mask. No social distancing. Contact - elbow bump. What kind of message does that send to an already-confused public?

The knee jerk reaction to defend EVERYTHING no matter how heinous or ignorant or mistaken it is makes us unnecessarily divided. We are all equally vulnerable to COVID-19. We should unanimously say "Don't drink bleach" and "Follow the guidelines of the hospital you're in." How hard is that? What's wrong w/that? Why can't we collectively agree that some actions are just wrong? It has zero to do w/politics.

I posted the lack of a mask in response to the discussion of the doctor who worked in NYC's ER, contracted the virus & survived, went back to work & it was too much, & committed suicide. There are medical professionals & hospital staff risking their lives (& sanity) fighting this. Imagine how Dr. Breen's colleagues would feel if Pence was strolling around that hospital w/o a mask, not distancing, & elbow bumping plasma donors? Anyone knows if Mayo staff has been sickened or worse?

It's callous & disrespectful to members of the forum who are either working in hospitals themselves, have family members who do so, or working to supply hospitals w/adequate resources for patients & staff.

No part of this post is directed to the troll. It's directed to anyone who can't just once look at something objectively.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 02:23 PM
Total aside: who taught Pence how to "elbow bump"? Left arm -to-right arm results in the same effect as offering your left hand to someone offering their right in a handshake. It just looked goofy!

 

____________________
Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 02:29 PM
quote:
It's up to the law at the end of the day


Which or what Law are you referencing?

 

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That Pro-Abortion chant, "My body, my choice"....Can this be applied to the wearing of masks?

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 03:01 PM
If hospital policy is that everyone should wear a mask, then everyone should wear a mask.
Especially the VP

it's not like Mayo Clinic is a 2 bit operation

The VP is essentially saying to one of the leading institutions in the WORLD that either I am above your policy or I disagree with your policy or your policy is foolish.
It's not like Pence went to med school

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 07:57 PM
How about shut your god damned mouth and listen to the Health Care Professionals

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 08:04 PM
quote:
If hospital policy is that everyone should wear a mask, then everyone should wear a mask.
Especially the VP


Courtesy to the Hospital and its staff aside and respect given to their gallant efforts, would you take a moment to explain the difference between "Policy" & "Law"?

Thanks in advance

 

____________________

That Pro-Abortion chant, "My body, my choice"....Can this be applied to the wearing of masks?

 

True Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 08:07 PM
quote:
The lefties are all concerned about the petty while VP Pence is working to solve the problem.

Not one the lefties offers any solutions or supports anything that can help.





Yeah, good ol' Doctor Pence. Guy's a genius.


 

True Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2020 at 09:18 PM
quote:
quote:
How about shut your god damned mouth and listen to the Health Care Professionals



Having a hard time accepting that the lefties are all about the petty and President Trump and Vice President Pence are getting the job done?

Get over it.





NOBODY LIKES YOU, YOU ADD NOTHING - GO AWAY.

go make your lefty - rightyy argument somewhere else

 
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