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Author: Subject: Opening Up America Again

True Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2020 at 03:22 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
INteresting. Will see where it goes.

https://news.yahoo.com/as-more-states-reopen-georgia-defies-predictions-of- coronavirus-resurgence-whats-the-lesson-for-the-rest-of-the-country-1647348 15.html


yes
Florida and Texas have clearly increased since re-opening.

and this, from the article

quote:
In a sign, perhaps, of things to come, churches in both Texas and Georgia that briefly reopened for in-person worship services have had to close again as the virus spread in their pews. Holy Ghost Catholic Church in Houston closed after five leaders tested positive last weekend, following the death of one priest who had been diagnosed with pneumonia. In Ringgold, Ga., Catoosa Baptist Tabernacle started in-person services again in late April but stopped on May 11 after learning that members of several families had contracted the virus. And on Tuesday the CDC released a report about an outbreak in March at a rural Arkansas church: Of the 92 people who attended the church between March 6 and March 11, 35 tested positive and three died, the report said. Investigators found that 26 other contacts of these churchgoers later tested positive and one died.



And that paragraph certainly seems like cause & effect.
And the storms and flooding have not even begun yet,

 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2020 at 07:26 PM
quote:
according to a database maintained by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Georgia’s rolling seven-day average of new daily cases — an important metric that helps to balance out daily fluctuations in reporting — has fallen for three weeks in a row.

Those figures are undisputed — despite a clumsy effort by state officials to present the data in a way that made them look even better. And they are a lot better than the experience in two other states that are moving to end lockdowns, Florida and Texas.

For the seven-day period ending on May 4, Georgia’s daily average stood at 746 cases.

By May 11, the average had fallen 12.6 percent to 652 daily cases.

By May 18, it had dropped to 612 cases, a further decline of 6.1 percent.

At the same time, Georgia’s seven-day average of COVID-19 hospitalizations fell from 1,432 on May 4, to 1,239 on May 11, to 1,049 on May 18 — a three-week decline of 26.7 percent.


I wondered about Georgia manipulating data and PattyG posted about it. But AJC is keeping their own numbers that shows decline.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2020 at 07:34 PM
Driving home tonight, I have never, never seen the parking lot so packed at our TJ Max. I’m like ‘holy **** what is going on at TJ Max?’ My wife says there was a story on the news about a line as long as a football field of people waiting to get in.

Our mall parking lot had decent amount of cars, except Penny’s is closed. Most restaurants also had decent amount of cars. I can’t say busy because I’ve seen busy, but a couple dozen cars at big restaurants.

I was surprised to see how busy these places appear to be. Youngstown area Ohio.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2020 at 08:51 PM
My son is an EMT and on Tuesday returned froma three week deployment in NYC.

His company has already told staff to expect to deploy to the South and Midwest this summer as they expect the hospitals to be overwhelmed after opening up before the guidelines were met.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2020 at 09:20 PM
The 805 started opening up today - Phase 2. We'll see. Right now, I'll just stick to going to the supermarkets along with a few restaurants for take out. Might take my truck to the car wash.

Just hope everyone out and about is safe and not stupid. The operative word is "hope"...

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2020 at 03:57 PM
Last week on 5/14 I incorrectly said that Ohio was only conducting on average 4546 test per day. I was averaging all cells instead of just a 7 day average. So for 5/14 that number of average tests per day was 8185 and as of 5/21 it is 9400 7 day average. Ohio has doubled the number of tests daily since May 1st.

Our cases remain plateaued off of their respective highs.

On our rolling 7 day average the highest daily increase average was 562 on May 15th, our previous high was 623 on May 9th and earlier 920 April 21st. Today it is 548.

Our rolling 14 day average case increase high was 606 on May 12th, our previous high was 688 May 1st. Today it is 555.

21 day high 662 on May 8th. Today that 3 week average in daily case increases is 573.

After persistent hospitalizations between 1000-1100, the last week have seen daily hospitalized patients in the upper 800 to lower 900 range. Our number of patients in ICU one month ago was 524, today that figure is 362 with consistent and steady decline.

My county is averaging about 15 new cases a day, half of what we were averaging at the start of this month. We had been averaging about 1-2 new patients admitted to our hospitals, that average has ticked up to about 2-2.5 now. 2-4 Mahoning County resisidents are lost each day, we've lost a total of 163 lives. Our population is about 229,000 residents. We are 4th in the state for deaths and 7th for cases. 69% of the county's total deaths are from nursing homes.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 5/23/2020 at 11:31 AM
Dr. Anthony Fauci says staying closed for too long could cause ‘irreparable damage’

Stay-at-home orders intended to curb the spread of the coronavirus could end up causing “irreparable damage” if imposed for too long, White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said.
“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,” he told CNBC.


“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,” Fauci said during an interview with CNBC’s Meg Tirrell on “Halftime Report.”

He said the U.S. had to institute severe measures because Covid-19 cases were exploding then. “But now is the time, depending upon where you are and what your situation is, to begin to seriously look at reopening the economy, reopening the country to try to get back to some degree of normal.”
untry to try to get back to some degree of normal.”

However, Fauci also cautioned states against reducing social distancing measures too quickly, adding they must take “very significant precautions.”

“In general, I think most of the country is doing it in a prudent way,” he said. “There are obviously some situations where people might be jumping over that. I just say please proceed with caution if you’re going to do that.”

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 5/23/2020 at 11:32 AM
Dr Birx.

Birx announces ‘dramatic decline’ in coronavirus cases across the states

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/birx-announces-dramatic-decline-in-coronav irus-deaths-hospitalizations-across-the-country


 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 5/23/2020 at 11:34 AM
The state of Vermont has 2 covid patients in the hospital now. But still on partial lockdown. Insanity.

https://www.healthvermont.gov/response/coronavirus-covid-19/current-activit y-vermont

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 5/23/2020 at 08:54 PM
quote:
The 805 started opening up today - Phase 2. We'll see. Right now, I'll just stick to going to the supermarkets along with a few restaurants for take out. Might take my truck to the car wash.

Just hope everyone out and about is safe and not stupid. The operative word is "hope"...
Went today to a market in Hawkinsville (about 35 miles from here) to replenish the meat supply. They require masks to enter, provide gloves to those who don't have them, and allow only 10 customers in the store at one time. All employees wear masks and gloves.
You get a personal sales rep at the door and he/she handles the transactions from start to walking it to the register.

I feel that as businesses open up again, that's the policy they should enforce.

Rusty--If you know how to get to Hawkinsville, go to M&T Meats. My wife declared we are no longer going out to get steaks.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2020 at 09:44 AM
quote:
quote:
The 805 started opening up today - Phase 2. We'll see. Right now, I'll just stick to going to the supermarkets along with a few restaurants for take out. Might take my truck to the car wash.

Just hope everyone out and about is safe and not stupid. The operative word is "hope"...
Went today to a market in Hawkinsville (about 35 miles from here) to replenish the meat supply. They require masks to enter, provide gloves to those who don't have them, and allow only 10 customers in the store at one time. All employees wear masks and gloves.
You get a personal sales rep at the door and he/she handles the transactions from start to walking it to the register.

I feel that as businesses open up again, that's the policy they should enforce.

Rusty--If you know how to get to Hawkinsville, go to M&T Meats. My wife declared we are no longer going out to get steaks.
Lets hope your meats were not infected by covid19 infected workers.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2020 at 09:46 PM
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Lets hope your meats were not infected by covid19 infected workers.


Always the optimist.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2020 at 09:51 PM
quote:
Dr. Anthony Fauci says staying closed for too long could cause ‘irreparable damage’

Stay-at-home orders intended to curb the spread of the coronavirus could end up causing “irreparable damage” if imposed for too long, White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said.
“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,” he told CNBC.


“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,” Fauci said during an interview with CNBC’s Meg Tirrell on “Halftime Report.”

He said the U.S. had to institute severe measures because Covid-19 cases were exploding then. “But now is the time, depending upon where you are and what your situation is, to begin to seriously look at reopening the economy, reopening the country to try to get back to some degree of normal.”
untry to try to get back to some degree of normal.”

However, Fauci also cautioned states against reducing social distancing measures too quickly, adding they must take “very significant precautions.”

“In general, I think most of the country is doing it in a prudent way,” he said. “There are obviously some situations where people might be jumping over that. I just say please proceed with caution if you’re going to do that.”


If you wait long enough these people will state opinions all over the map and contradict themselves, even Fauci.

We are all only human. Nobody really knows.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2020 at 10:02 PM
quote:
Nobody really knows.


This has been my stated belief from day one

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/26/2020 at 06:32 AM
quote:
quote:
Dr. Anthony Fauci says staying closed for too long could cause ‘irreparable damage’

Stay-at-home orders intended to curb the spread of the coronavirus could end up causing “irreparable damage” if imposed for too long, White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said.
“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,” he told CNBC.


“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,” Fauci said during an interview with CNBC’s Meg Tirrell on “Halftime Report.”

He said the U.S. had to institute severe measures because Covid-19 cases were exploding then. “But now is the time, depending upon where you are and what your situation is, to begin to seriously look at reopening the economy, reopening the country to try to get back to some degree of normal.”
untry to try to get back to some degree of normal.”

However, Fauci also cautioned states against reducing social distancing measures too quickly, adding they must take “very significant precautions.”

“In general, I think most of the country is doing it in a prudent way,” he said. “There are obviously some situations where people might be jumping over that. I just say please proceed with caution if you’re going to do that.”


If you wait long enough these people will state opinions all over the map and contradict themselves, even Fauci.

We are all only human. Nobody really knows.


What we do know is that cases & deaths continue to go up. That should tell us something. And in some of the states that have opened up in some form, the trends have reversed and are heading back up. Do people really wonder why?

So, nobody may know, but in the end, the math doesn't care and life either goes on or doesn't. And a pandemic will continue to cause destruction regardless of how many people go pray in churches or do shots in a bar.

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/26/2020 at 08:45 AM
quote:
What we do know is that cases & deaths continue to go up. That should tell us something. And in some of the states that have opened up in some form, the trends have reversed and are heading back up. Do people really wonder why?

It does make one wonder what state could possibly "guarantee" a full house - no social distancing - for the RNC in late August should Trump decide NC is moving too slowly or the NC governor doesn't relax seating capacity based on the health & safety information he examines. FL, TX, & GA are all mentioned as possible replacements suggesting their governors will turn a blind eye to whatever spikes may appear in the next few months. The price of breaking a contract w/the City of Charlotte, of course, is nothing to a pres using Other People's Money or no consideration for legal obligations.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/26/2020 at 10:14 AM
quote:
quote:
What we do know is that cases & deaths continue to go up. That should tell us something. And in some of the states that have opened up in some form, the trends have reversed and are heading back up. Do people really wonder why?

It does make one wonder what state could possibly "guarantee" a full house - no social distancing - for the RNC in late August should Trump decide NC is moving too slowly or the NC governor doesn't relax seating capacity based on the health & safety information he examines. FL, TX, & GA are all mentioned as possible replacements suggesting their governors will turn a blind eye to whatever spikes may appear in the next few months. The price of breaking a contract w/the City of Charlotte, of course, is nothing to a pres using Other People's Money or no consideration for legal obligations.

I think there's a lot of bluster behind Dr. Trump's threat. Think about this - how many delegates would really feel good and feel safe hanging out for several days in a 20,000 seat or whatever size arena and doing a bunch of side partying with fellow delegates? You wonder if they think the dangers will...puff one day it'll be gone as the good doctor says, and it'll coincide with his crowning as the GOP candidate?

How many of you would want to attend a political event like this? No different at a big venue like MSG or a large outside shed.

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/26/2020 at 11:30 AM
quote:
I think there's a lot of bluster behind Dr. Trump's threat. Think about this - how many delegates would really feel good and feel safe hanging out for several days in a 20,000 seat or whatever size arena and doing a bunch of side partying with fellow delegates? You wonder if they think the dangers will...puff one day it'll be gone as the good doctor says, and it'll coincide with his crowning as the GOP candidate?

Yes, a lot of bluster & bullying, but his disciples don't really buy that COVID19 exists or that social distancing makes a difference. The same people that are marching on state capitols shoulder to shoulder & ignoring mask & distancing policies in the newly re-opened states might love cheering him on in a crowded venue. Trump's invincible & so are they or so they believe. Once again, it's Trump's obsession w/numbers. He doesn't want to look out into a 50% capacity arena (or worse have TV camera shots of one); he wants 110% so he can have a crowd even larger than his inauguration (not physically possible except in his mind).

 

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  posted on 5/26/2020 at 12:12 PM
quote:
How many of you would want to attend a political event like this? No different at a big venue like MSG or a large outside shed.


Not yet. But that would be MY choice.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/26/2020 at 12:39 PM
quote:
quote:
I think there's a lot of bluster behind Dr. Trump's threat. Think about this - how many delegates would really feel good and feel safe hanging out for several days in a 20,000 seat or whatever size arena and doing a bunch of side partying with fellow delegates? You wonder if they think the dangers will...puff one day it'll be gone as the good doctor says, and it'll coincide with his crowning as the GOP candidate?

Yes, a lot of bluster & bullying, but his disciples don't really buy that COVID19 exists or that social distancing makes a difference. The same people that are marching on state capitols shoulder to shoulder & ignoring mask & distancing policies in the newly re-opened states might love cheering him on in a crowded venue. Trump's invincible & so are they or so they believe. Once again, it's Trump's obsession w/numbers. He doesn't want to look out into a 50% capacity arena (or worse have TV camera shots of one); he wants 110% so he can have a crowd even larger than his inauguration (not physically possible except in his mind).


Question, cyclone - Can the RNC have attendees sign some sort of a liability waiver if those who choose to attend and contract Covid so that the RNC doesn't take responsibility? Same question for NC?

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/26/2020 at 04:15 PM
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Question, cyclone - Can the RNC have attendees sign some sort of a liability waiver if those who choose to attend and contract Covid so that the RNC doesn't take responsibility? Same question for NC?


Short answer: NO. You can't consent to something that a state has mandated against.


 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/26/2020 at 04:54 PM
So a lot to ponder.

Who knows where the pandemic will be at time of lead up to and during time frame of convention. How many more cases and deaths? What will be the culture in 2 months - rebel for "freedom" vs believe in science and take precautions of remaining healthy?

The state has to be willing to allow a convention a couple months from now. A lot of logistics goes into these events. Planning has to occur with contingencies in place. If NC says no, can another state other than Trump's state of mind host a convention in this time frame?

Delegates attend at their own risk. If they do attend, will they do social distancing and wear masks. Think about fearless leader not wearing a mask and 90 + pct of the audience doing this - not an optic that Trump would want because it would show an acknowledgement of reality & not the hoax he wanted America to believe and that it hasn't disappeared as he said it would. Or would the audience just play follow the leader and do as he does?

If delegates attend, and numbers contract Covid, where does this leave Trump & GOP? These delegates will go running for medical help knowing they risked their own health and safety to attend an event probably too early in the cycle.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/26/2020 at 05:00 PM
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Question, cyclone - Can the RNC have attendees sign some sort of a liability waiver if those who choose to attend and contract Covid so that the RNC doesn't take responsibility? Same question for NC?


Short answer: NO. You can't consent to something that a state has mandated against.




Sorry for the follow up, but take the state out of the equation if this is possible. If NC or any other state has not mandated against, then is there liability or liability waiver potential for RNC given the live pandemic and known risks? If answer = yes, is this something a political party would consider for an event like this or practical?

Or maybe this is just too hypothetical.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 5/26/2020 at 05:59 PM
"I love the Great State of North Carolina, so much so that I insisted on having the Republican National Convention in Charlotte at the end of August," Trump said in a series of tweets. "Unfortunately, Democrat Governor, @RoyCooperNC is still in Shutdown mood & unable to guarantee that by August we will be allowed full attendance in the Arena. In other words, we would be spending millions of dollars building the Arena to a very high standard without even knowing if the Democrat Governor would allow the Republican Party to fully occupy the space."


Yes, he loves the state of North Carolina so much that he wants the citizens to endanger their lives to satisfy his ego by allowing "full attendance in the Arena."

WTF is "Shutdown mood"??

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/26/2020 at 06:48 PM
quote:
Sorry for the follow up, but take the state out of the equation if this is possible. If NC or any other state has not mandated against, then is there liability or liability waiver potential for RNC given the live pandemic and known risks? If answer = yes, is this something a political party would consider for an event like this or practical?

Or maybe this is just too hypothetical.


You've hit upon hot legal topics. Not a day goes by that there isn't a webinar by the ABA, state, or city bar association addressing some aspect of COVID19 - liability, force majeur, enforceability & indemnification of leases, contracts & insurance, impossibility & conflicts between international laws. I got a notice for one this week re the the question of criminal liability (negligence to manslaughter) should someone intentionally fail to disclose their testing status & knowingly put themselves in a position to infect others (much like not disclosing HIV status to a potential sex partner).

A state is always going to have a compelling interest in protecting its occupants. National political conventions have the unique circumstance of people coming into the city/state from all 50 states plus territories all of which have different COVID19 statistics & policies over a varying amount of time & staying for varying duration. That alone increases risk to a state's citizens exponentially. There's no way (so far) to absolutely identify to a judicial standard how a person contracted COVID19 at a conference - the main events, a hospitality suite, the flight out, shuttle bus ride from the airport, hotel, restaurant, rental car, or a person - so a blanket waiver for the sponsor (the RNC) would essentially fail.

Although there are projections on which national, state, & local leadership in government & private sectors rely for short-term planning, there aren't any that I know of that can guarantee that social distancing wouldn't apply to any specific venue in late August given the broad range of characteristics of attendees.





 
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