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Author: Subject: The NEW Impeachment Thread

Peach Master



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 10:34 AM
quote:
Yessir and we are on it. He just started a war all by himself
Illegal bullsh*t. This isn't just about impeachment. He wants to f*ck it all up so bad it can't be fixed. We are marked now.

This is all on the Redhats. .


This is what they want. The redhats are celebrating all the danger. They are excited for it. No sense in calling them out anymore. We either vote him out or just shut up, deal with it all, and hope for the best. And then we remember who the redhats are and avoid them like the plague. Thatís the only option.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 10:42 AM
Trouble ahead, lady in red
 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 10:57 AM
quote:
This isn't just about impeachment. He wants to f*ck it all up so bad it can't be fixed. We are marked now.

This is all on the Redhats. .

I respectfully disagree about the motivation, Mr. Rabbit. It is ALL about a distraction from impeachment & he made it so big & so illegal & so destructive that he's got McConnell & Graham talking about not even negotiating rules for impeachment & some clown vowing to request a dismissal. It's SOP for him in business - implode a building rather than lose it in foreclosure.

I agree that it IS on the Redhats now to finally see him for the madman he is. There is no government if a cowardly legislature allows him to violate laws re their notification of certain acts, violate international laws re targets & sites, & cover it up w/pronouncements the Pentagon has made for almost 20 years - yes, Soulamani was the kingpin in the Middle East & there have been opportunities before to take him out but at a cost no administration wanted to risk. It's absurd for an Exec to announce that his required notice to any other branch of government will be done after the fact via twitter. Of course, Redhats will see him as a Man of Action Who Dared To Do What No Prez Before Him Would for some unfathomable reason. It's also on the Senate for not expelling Comrade McConnell for abetting this dangerous idiot.

None of this will stop impeachment process which was expected to result in his remaining in office. Perhaps, with this latest stunt, some senators won't be so quick to keep him. One can only hope.


 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 12:06 PM
quote:
I respectfully disagree about the motivation, Mr. Rabbit. It is ALL about a distraction from impeachment


Let me try to rephrase my vague reply. I agree it is all about impeachment, and I was upping the ante to they are trying to create chaos and bring down American Democracy altogether.

Ask any Redhat if they would like to see their boy a fascist Putin-style president for life, and prune off a couple branches of govt. I have suggested this here several times, never once disagreed with or told hey rabbit that is over the top. Redhats are flat out fascists.

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 12:41 PM
quote:
I agree it is all about impeachment, and I was upping the ante to they are trying to create chaos and bring down American Democracy altogether. Ask any Redhat if they would like to see their boy a fascist Putin-style president for life, and prune off a couple branches of govt. I have suggested this here several times, never once disagreed with or told hey rabbit that is over the top.

Got it. Trump, however, isn't a long-term strategic thinker & most certainly doesn't want to be CEO of the US for life. IMO, were it not for legal proceedings awaiting his departure from office, he'd have resigned long ago so he wouldn't have to constantly be told what he can't do. The news that there are other branches was a shock to his system.

As for his disciples, the news that a large portion of Americans don't understand how government works or even the meaning of the terms democracy v. fascism has finally reached SCOTUS. In his year-end report on the judiciary, CJ Roberts decried the lack of basic civic knowledge & enumerated all the judicial initiatives that exist to combat that. He stopped short of dissing the education system. It's taken the ignorance of Trump & Co to be an "AHA moment" for leadership to realize that Americans can't be trusted to protect democracy & the constitution if they don't know what it is. I don't disagree that there are some undercurrents of revolution, but neither side wants to disrupt their comfortable lives.


 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 12:57 PM
quote:
Americans can't be trusted to protect democracy & the constitution if they don't know what it is.


The RatherBeRussians know what democracy is. They are revolting, a passive revolution, but revolting nonetheless.

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 01:00 PM
quote:
As I understand it, and I could be wrong on this, he can compel witness testimony and demand evidence be presented even if the Senate votes not to. Maybe you can clarify this cyclone as you're an attorney?

Yes, I'm an attorney but not an impeachment scholar and you may have already gotten the answer to this. Impeachment is a legislative process w/rules made by the Senate. The blueprint of 26 rules was first drafted for Johnson's impeachment in 1868 & tweaked for Clinton's trial. Every single rule has to be approved by the majority of the Senate. My understanding is that the Trump trial was using the Clinton rules as a blueprint and Clinton DID have 3 witnesses who testified under oath in closed sessions.

CJ Roberts' role is to preside - basically keep order (all the Senators have to remain seated & silent & show up at the appointed time), make limited evidentiary rulings, and generally make sure that the rules and the constitution are followed. He can be over-ruled by the Senate.

So, the short answer is no. His mentor was CJRehnquist who presided over Clinton's trial and by his own account "did very little very well." Although Roberts is likely to follow Rehnquist's example in most instances, he may mediate negotiations re the rules or at least move them in a "fair" direction so that the trial isn't a travesty.

The assassination of Soleimani may change the timing, approach to rule-making, & outcome of the trial. Some senators may use the opportunity to show that they will NOT be dismissed when it comes to the Exec notifying them of such actions.

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 01:12 PM
quote:
The RatherBeRussians know what democracy is. They are revolting, a passive revolution, but revolting nonetheless.

You certainly have the ability to take any position on any topic. Again, I disagree w/you that the RBRs know what democracy is in practical terms - like 3 branches of government. But the real question is WTH is a passive revolution? They eat more fast food? Pay off their mistresses? Hang posters of Putin in their children's bedrooms? Cheat on their taxes?

And now back to impeachment...

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 02:12 PM
quote:
You certainly have the ability to take any position on any topic.


I actually pride myself in knowing my position and being happy to state it without deflection or obfuscation. I do tend towards the big picture however, which can be irritating when trying to nail down specifics, I will grant that. If you are going to call me a chameleon you will allow me the chance to defend myself, as that is a serious accusation in my book.

It seems to me that the ignorance of democracy is willful, and it is naive to think that it is from lack of education. Every Redhat on this board is aware of the mechanics of democracy.


 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 03:42 PM
quote:
I actually pride myself in knowing my position and being happy to state it without deflection or obfuscation. I do tend towards the big picture however, which can be irritating when trying to nail down specifics, I will grant that. If you are going to call me a chameleon you will allow me the chance to defend myself, as that is a serious accusation in my book.
It seems to me that the ignorance of democracy is willful, and it is naive to think that it is from lack of education. Every Redhat on this board is aware of the mechanics of democracy.


Oh, pull yourself together silly Rabbit. That was a compliment - to be able to see not only both sides of a question but the short & long term consequences. It requires both knowledge & critical thinking.

I'm not saying a lack of civic education is the problem - CJRoberts alluded to it in his annual report. His remarks were for generations NOT represented on this forum who seem to be clueless as well as disinterested in anything beyond their favorite IG influencers.


 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 04:06 PM
Ah So. You will forgive my obtuse defensiveness - it hit nerve because I juggle a lot of conflict : Confuse-us say "He who juggle cat, chainsaw, and torch end up with hairless cat with no tail."

When all else fails, retreat into remotely relevant absurdism.

[Edited on 1/6/2020 by BrerRabbit]

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 04:53 PM
quote:
quote:
As I understand it, and I could be wrong on this, he can compel witness testimony and demand evidence be presented even if the Senate votes not to. Maybe you can clarify this cyclone as you're an attorney?

Yes, I'm an attorney but not an impeachment scholar and you may have already gotten the answer to this. Impeachment is a legislative process w/rules made by the Senate. The blueprint of 26 rules was first drafted for Johnson's impeachment in 1868 & tweaked for Clinton's trial. Every single rule has to be approved by the majority of the Senate. My understanding is that the Trump trial was using the Clinton rules as a blueprint and Clinton DID have 3 witnesses who testified under oath in closed sessions.

CJ Roberts' role is to preside - basically keep order (all the Senators have to remain seated & silent & show up at the appointed time), make limited evidentiary rulings, and generally make sure that the rules and the constitution are followed. He can be over-ruled by the Senate.

So, the short answer is no. His mentor was CJRehnquist who presided over Clinton's trial and by his own account "did very little very well." Although Roberts is likely to follow Rehnquist's example in most instances, he may mediate negotiations re the rules or at least move them in a "fair" direction so that the trial isn't a travesty.

The assassination of Soleimani may change the timing, approach to rule-making, & outcome of the trial. Some senators may use the opportunity to show that they will NOT be dismissed when it comes to the Exec notifying them of such actions.


Thanks for the clarification Cyclone....And for the very interesting and informative discussion between you and Rabbit....Thanks to both of you.

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2020 at 07:02 PM
quote:
Thanks for the clarification Cyclone....And for the very interesting and informative discussion between you and Rabbit....Thanks to both of you.

The clarification may change, of course, as Trump rips up the constitution to suit himself. I don't think the Founders had a post-hoc explanation via twitter in mind when war powers were addressed. Re impeachment, things like Bolton's public announcement today that he's willing to testify should he be called could put pressure on McConnell to actually have a trial w/witnesses & evidence. What a concept!

The constitution is consistent in the complete division of powers w/checks & balances. A trial in the legislature is run by the legislature. The SCOTUS chief justice presides to make sure the wheels don't totally come off & to protect the Exec office if not its occupant.

Rabbit is always up for a good exchange. I fully expected Trump to do something to get impeachment off the front page while Congress was in recess but I certainly didn't expect an assassination!

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/7/2020 at 11:43 PM
I'm still amazed that 40% of people still support a rich guy who was born into money and cheated his way through school and life.

While they're living pay to pay and barely scratching by.

Gaslighting works on the uninformed.

Sad but true.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/8/2020 at 07:13 AM
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I'm still amazed that 40% of people still support a rich guy who was born into money and cheated his way through school and life.

While they're living pay to pay and barely scratching by.

Gaslighting works on the uninformed.

Sad but true.


Thanks for pointing out that many of his supporters are living pay to pay & barely scratching by despite this highly touted 3.9% unemployment number ( I'd really like to see that broken down. Are we talking "healthcare" jobs that are actually $8/hr home health aides?)

I'm amazed that senators who are NOT uninformed continue to support a reckless, impulsive, mercurial, unstable man who can be baited w/a tweet are standing behind him, especially in the context of this escalation of tensions (I'm not saying war) w/Iran of which Congress wasn't informed beforehand. They have a chance to get him out of office through impeachment before he does further damage, but they're marching in lock-step behind McConnell who apparently is either 1) ignorant of the constitution or 2) blithely choosing to ignore it for which he should be expelled from Congress.

The answer can't be that ALL of them fear losing their senate seat (some aren't even running for re-election) & their constituents got what they wanted w/"pro-life" justices appointed. Does Pence scare them? WTH are they afraid of? If the choice is Trump or nuclear war, isn't nuclear war scarier?

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 1/8/2020 at 08:59 AM
quote:
quote:
I'm still amazed that 40% of people still support a rich guy who was born into money and cheated his way through school and life.

While they're living pay to pay and barely scratching by.

Gaslighting works on the uninformed.

Sad but true.


Thanks for pointing out that many of his supporters are living pay to pay & barely scratching by despite this highly touted 3.9% unemployment number ( I'd really like to see that broken down. Are we talking "healthcare" jobs that are actually $8/hr home health aides?)

I'm amazed that senators who are NOT uninformed continue to support a reckless, impulsive, mercurial, unstable man who can be baited w/a tweet are standing behind him, especially in the context of this escalation of tensions (I'm not saying war) w/Iran of which Congress wasn't informed beforehand. They have a chance to get him out of office through impeachment before he does further damage, but they're marching in lock-step behind McConnell who apparently is either 1) ignorant of the constitution or 2) blithely choosing to ignore it for which he should be expelled from Congress.

The answer can't be that ALL of them fear losing their senate seat (some aren't even running for re-election) & their constituents got what they wanted w/"pro-life" justices appointed. Does Pence scare them? WTH are they afraid of? If the choice is Trump or nuclear war, isn't nuclear war scarier?



My opinion is that all of the enablers have gone along with and defended Trump through so many objectively ridiculous situations that there is no way to stop now. They are "all-in' whether they want to be or not because they have given him so many passes already. How do you say "y" is inexcusable behavior from a president when you already let "x" slide? They knew it was wrong before the 2016 RNC convention, but he was popular with the base. It has to be a bad feeling to know that if you lose the racist vote you don't have a chance in elections.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 1/8/2020 at 10:19 AM
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The answer can't be that ALL of them fear losing their senate seat (some aren't even running for re-election) & their constituents got what they wanted w/"pro-life" justices appointed. Does Pence scare them? WTH are they afraid of?


Among his supporters: unrest, threats of domestic terrorism towards other civilian Americans, loss of public trust and loyalty to the United States. They are rabid and radicalized. The Republicans in the Senate recognize the instability of his base, recognize the threat they pose, and are trying to prevent mass violence. They are backing him to create the perception that ďthey are tryingĒ for them.

Because there are millions of brainwashed ticking time bombs ready to retaliate and destroy America even more than they have already, we have to let him leave office in the most natural way possible so as not to set them off.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/8/2020 at 12:33 PM
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quote:
The answer can't be that ALL of them fear losing their senate seat (some aren't even running for re-election) & their constituents got what they wanted w/"pro-life" justices appointed. Does Pence scare them? WTH are they afraid of?


Among his supporters: unrest, threats of domestic terrorism towards other civilian Americans, loss of public trust and loyalty to the United States. They are rabid and radicalized. The Republicans in the Senate recognize the instability of his base, recognize the threat they pose, and are trying to prevent mass violence. They are backing him to create the perception that ďthey are tryingĒ for them.

Because there are millions of brainwashed ticking time bombs ready to retaliate and destroy America even more than they have already, we have to let him leave office in the most natural way possible so as not to set them off.


Is it possible that so many like the President solely because of the alternatives (or lack thereof) ?

What other choices do voters have?

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 1/8/2020 at 01:20 PM
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Is it possible that so many like the President solely because of the alternatives (or lack thereof) ?

What other choices do voters have?


Some yes, but Iím referring to his core base, the ones who threaten domestic terrorism if heís impeached. If you think that type of passion is about policy, I have some real estate in FL to sell you.

During his campaign, he asked Russia to hack our election and another Americanís email, mocked a disabled person, tried to turn Americans against the FBI, CIA, federal judges, John McCain, asked his supporters to commit violence against protestors, and the list goes on, all while praising foreign adversaries. Itís extremely dysfunctional to choose this type of personality to lead our country, simply because you donít like Democrats.

People donít even know why they hate Hillary. Trump created the fake narrative about her to give folks like you all the justification they needed to commit domestic terrorism. He suckered all of you folks, and the Scarlett letter will forever hurt you.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/8/2020 at 01:51 PM
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People donít even know why they hate Hillary.


Personally, I believe voters should be given more credit than that. One voter's reasoning is judged to be ridiculous by the next and yes, it goes both ways.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/8/2020 at 02:17 PM
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People donít even know why they hate Hillary.


That "Why do you hate Hilary" thread I started a while back was page after page of not one actual reason why. Even when given the floor to cut her to pieces her worst detractors had nothing to offer.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/8/2020 at 02:19 PM
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Because the other impeachment thread has been derailed by posters into name-calling about something other than impeachment, I wanted a place to talk about impeachment.

Today is Impeachment Tuesday. More than 550 demonstrations (at least one in each state) are being held (w/sponsors from the Sierra Club to unions) to remind Congress that several polls indicate Americans are IN FAVOR of impeachment (the process). I'm not a big believer in polls but the point is that we're fine w/Congress proceeding w/the constitutional blueprint to examine a president's behavior as opposed to watching a bunch of old white men screeching at each other on TV until the election.

Four GOP politicos (campaign strategists) announced the formation of the Lincoln Project with an aim of defeating DJT because he doesn't represent what the GOP stands for (or did before 2016).

I'd like to make the assumption that the HR has proceeded according to the constitution & that Articles of Impeachment were drafted & voted on & will go to the Senate.

If you want to rant about liberals v. yourself, the Dem plan to do this since 2016, or Nancy Pelosi's cosmetic surgery, the other thread is still available. This may be the 1st & last post of the thread because maybe no one else cares, but I thought I'd give it a shot keeping in mind that we're here for the music & this is just an aside.




cyclone88, I would say that this thread is about to fall victim to the same diversions the other thread did...

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/8/2020 at 02:40 PM
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quote:
People donít even know why they hate Hillary.


That "Why do you hate Hilary" thread I started a while back was page after page of not one actual reason why. Even when given the floor to cut her to pieces her worst detractors had nothing to offer.


The "Hate Hilary" movement began long before Trump ever considered running for the presidency. The movement began literally decades ago as a way for many on the right to foment a lucrative living bashing the Clinton's.

Roger Ailes, Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingraham, Kelly Ann Conway, that other skinny, pale white women (her name escapes me at the moment) have made a boatload of money basically creating the "Hate Hilary" campaign. To their credit, they've milked it for money, power, ratings, and ultimately getting a buffoon reality tv star elected to the presidency.

But yeah, actually ask for specifics as to why they hate Hilary and many can't answer the question as they've simply been spoon fed conspiracy theories and outright lies so much for so long they can't remember what it is they actually hate about her.

I do agree with Big V however in that there are enough that can articulate their hate and it's those that convince the others. They're the herd leaders, the alpha males and females so to speak.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/8/2020 at 02:43 PM
quote:
quote:
People donít even know why they hate Hillary.

That "Why do you hate Hilary" thread I started a while back was page after page of not one actual reason why. Even when given the floor to cut her to pieces her worst detractors had nothing to offer.

99% of the people chanting "Lock Her Up" couldn't even name a crime she should have been charged with. It was all hate. So, no, I don't give them much credit.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/8/2020 at 03:25 PM
quote:
Is it possible that so many like the President solely because of the alternatives (or lack thereof) ? What other choices do voters have?

Liking someone isn't the same as having no alternatives. Accepting, putting up with, bearing up, waiting him out, or hoping there are grown-ups in the room while he's still around isn't "liking."

There is no "choice" during his term except impeachment which is underway or invoking the 25th amendment which was my choice early on. Voters can only pressure their senators to vote for rules for a fair trial & to vote according to what evidence is presented at trial.


 
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