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Author: Subject: Baltimore votes down armed officers, changed minds

Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/28/2019 at 08:06 PM
quote:
quote:
So if you are not okay with a gun dealer selling the wrong person a weapon


I am not. I think the immense difficulty is in how to legislate against this.


For private sales, you simply outlaw them. Enforcement may be tough, but it would at least make most people stop.

You are right that a black market will always exist, but shutting down the gray market should be a reasonable step.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2019 at 07:49 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
So if you are not okay with a gun dealer selling the wrong person a weapon


I am not. I think the immense difficulty is in how to legislate against this.


For private sales, you simply outlaw them. Enforcement may be tough, but it would at least make most people stop.

You are right that a black market will always exist, but shutting down the gray market should be a reasonable step.


Mmmmmmm, NO. Let's get the mistaken use of "private sales=black market" out of the vernacular. There are private sales, then there is the black market.

There have been discussions of making private sales go through an FFL dealer. problems with that is that not everyone lives close to an FFL dealer that can do a background check.
If you looked at the ATF form 4473 you will see that there is a provision (Question 21) that does not require the background check if the buyer has the state permit.
The permits have their own background check and are to be issued from the local law enforcement agency. Problem is that some states and counties do not follow the shall issue and have a much cavalier attitude about issuing the permits.
NY sate and California are two of the worst offenders. Several county departments have had arrests due to everything from bribery to personal attacks toward those who file for permits.
WHEN, not if, this problem is taken care of, those who have the permits have no problem purchasing a firearm.
I have bought and sold firearms privately, but only if I can see their permit. If not, they have to purchase from a dealer.

Second reason that proposal was shut down was that if you gave a firearm to your son, daughter, wife, husband, or if any of them inherited your firearms, the legislation said you would have to turn it over to a dealer and have background checks run on the people you were giving, or willed them to.

Here's a little factoid for you about how far criminals will go to acquire firearms.
A few, well actually about 30 years ago, convicts at Reidsville prison were found to be manufacturing reasonably
well made single shot pistols and rifles in the prison machine shop. A shakedown found several dozen hidden in places around the prison.

So, you could shut down every gun shop, gun show, private sale, confiscate every known firearm in the country, and criminals would still find a way to get a firearm.

Anytime I see a politico fervently pushing "gun control", I think back about Leland Yee and his unabashed support for getting firearms out of the hands of the general public.
https://huffpost.com/entry/leland-yee-gun-trafficing_n_5038152

I also think about how Nancy Pelosi has a concealed carry permit when few in her district can't get one.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2019 at 07:55 PM
Oh, and you can go to:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/california-state-sen-leland-yee-indicted-we apons-charges/story?id=23082339

If you haven't figured it out yet, he was trying to get in full automatic weapons and shoulder fire missiles (RPGs) and other types of weapons for a Chinese gang.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 11/29/2019 at 11:29 PM
"California", "NY", "Chicago", all a bunch of code for "I blame Democrats for gun violence", which contributes nothing to the coversation and is counterproductive to finding a way to combat an epidemic unique to the United States. When reasonable gun measures are proposed, Republicans in Washington sell out to the NRA and the pro-gun base. Despite the fact that there are many Americans who suffer from a wide variety of mental disorders who go their whole lives untreated, who had very sh*tty parents, there's a significant portion of our population, as we've heard in this thread, that would sell them firearms. You guys win - go ahead and sell, sell, sell.

Pretty crazy that the Republican base is condoning the President's repeated attacks on distinguished military heroes, undermining all intelligence agencies, praising foreign dictator adversaries, collaboration with foreign entities to attack an American, and now proposing armed guards in our schools, and a society where all adults are carrying loaded firearms in public to protect against domestic terrorism - just how the Founding Fathers envisioned it!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2019 at 11:59 PM
quote:
"California", "NY", "Chicago", all a bunch of code for "I blame Democrats for gun violence"


quote:
When reasonable gun measures are proposed


Could not one argue that in the States above; the highest criminal activity with firearms "The Reasonable" measures in place are Democratic in origin?

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 12:19 AM
quote:
Could not one argue that in the States above; the highest criminal activity with firearms "The Reasonable" measures in place are Democratic in origin?


7 out of the 10 worst mass shootings in U.S. history occurred in red states, so yeah, one can argue that point if they want to be irrelevant. TX is by far the king of mass shootings, but I would never suggest that it's because of the Republican leadership, because that would be stupid.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 01:11 AM
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quote:
Could not one argue that in the States above; the highest criminal activity with firearms "The Reasonable" measures in place are Democratic in origin?


7 out of the 10 worst mass shootings in U.S. history occurred in red states, so yeah, one can argue that point if they want to be irrelevant. TX is by far the king of mass shootings, but I would never suggest that it's because of the Republican leadership, because that would be stupid.


quote:
"California", "NY", "Chicago", all a bunch of code for "I blame Democrats for gun violence"


Are these words not from your quote?...Where it would appear that simply by mentioning these states you had an issue?...Are these states not under Democratic policy making as they refer to firearms?

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 01:18 AM
quote:
Are these words not from your quote?...Where it would appear that simply by mentioning these states you had an issue?...Are these states not under Democratic policy making as they refer to firearms?


I don't know what your point is, but my issue was with Jerry's post. No need to take it any other way.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 10:39 AM
quote:
"California", "NY", "Chicago", all a bunch of code for "I blame Democrats for gun violence", which contributes nothing to the conversation and is counterproductive to finding a way to combat an epidemic unique to the United States. When reasonable gun measures are proposed, Republicans in Washington sell out to the NRA and the pro-gun base. Despite the fact that there are many Americans who suffer from a wide variety of mental disorders who go their whole lives untreated, who had very sh*tty parents, there's a significant portion of our population, as we've heard in this thread, that would sell them firearms. You guys win - go ahead and sell, sell, sell.

Pretty crazy that the Republican base is condoning the President's repeated attacks on distinguished military heroes, undermining all intelligence agencies, praising foreign dictator adversaries, collaboration with foreign entities to attack an American, and now proposing armed guards in our schools, and a society where all adults are carrying loaded firearms in public to protect against domestic terrorism - just how the Founding Fathers envisioned it!


Got that out of your system now?

Please get a spell check on your browser, or at least correct the words it highlights if you already have one.
Then again, you might be typing faster than your brain can register "Oh, I misspelled that word."

I've never come across a school system that didn't have armed guards on campus. You posted that most do not. I asked you where those systems were, but you have as yet given any information of those locations, not the first one.
So, yes, there armed guards at schools, and have been for a long time.

I have not seen any type of "reasonable" gun measures proposed since the 1968 GCA which stopped the mail order business of firearms except for muzzle loaders.
Every "reasonable" proposal since then has been more and more restrictions on law abiding citizens, not criminals. Some "reasonable" proposals would have made some citizens criminals, and even would have violated SEVERAL amendments in the Bill Of Rights.

Some were even proposed by Republicans.

I hope to God that our representatives keep selling out to the gun base. We're of BOTH parties, all walks of life, all income brackets, all races, and most religions. Some are even politicians. Which means, NO, I don't hate democrats for gun violence. I despise the ones who wish to disarm by small measures. Constant increments of denying the gun rights are in use in several places around the country. Little bit by little bit the hue and cry of "we must do this about gun violence" and there actually isn't anything in the proposals to help curb violence. No provisions of longer jail terms, stiffer fines, or anything that might result in lower crime rates with firearms.

I posted about California and New York due to their attitude of issuing state gun permits. Why don't they issue them? A full background check is done before it can be issued, so that objection is moot.
BUT, very few are issued to civilians, even when they pass the background checks. Now if you could give me an answer why the Dems now keep proposing background checks as a measure to purchase a firearm when the
program is already in effect for those who wish to purchase a firearm?

Note: I have yet to bring up Chicago. I will, and include several other Michigan towns if you wish.

Did you enjoy the links to why I distrust any politician who is rabidly fervent about civilian disarmament?
Or do you think it was ok for former senator Yee to keep firearms out of the hands of civilians while he was negotiating with a Chinese Tong to illegally bring in actual machine guns, rocket launchers, and RPGs for criminals to use and/or sell on the actual Black Market?

You couldn't keep up the dialog so you included a diatribe about the President?

By the way, I'm not a member of the NRA. They don't go far enough to protect the rights of the American citizen.

AND, I'm still waiting for you to let me know who "they" are that knows where those millions of untreated mentally ill
citizens are that "they" know are going to purchase firearms and go about creating mass havoc.

Last note on this post: Gun control is aiming true on your target, letting out a breath, slowly pulling on the trigger, and hitting the target you are aiming for.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 10:49 AM
Good for you!
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 10:53 AM
quote:
quote:
Are these words not from your quote?...Where it would appear that simply by mentioning these states you had an issue?...Are these states not under Democratic policy making as they refer to firearms?


I don't know what your point is, but my issue was with Jerry's post. No need to take it any other way.


My "Point" is that the States you've listed are among the ones with the most stringent Gun Laws, yet they are all high firearm related crime states. If the "argument" is both moral and legal, then countering with "7 out of 10" is pretty weak if your defense is anyway trying to push across the image that "More nuts are to be found in Red States"....

Too Funny

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 11:11 AM
good for you both.
 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 11:17 AM
quote:
Good for you!


Does this mean no answers to questions?

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 01:43 PM
quote:
Does this mean no answers to questions?


If I thought it would be productive, or if I saw any relevance, I'd answer them, but since we're so far off, no point in moving forward.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 06:15 PM
quote:
quote:
Does this mean no answers to questions?


If I thought it would be productive, or if I saw any relevance, I'd answer them, but since we're so far off, no point in moving forward.



Why do you think we are so far off? Everything I have asked you has been relevant to the discussion.

Of course this could be just you deciding that the discussion isn't going your way and want to quit and act like you won since the facts seem to get in the way of your agenda.

Let me ask this one question and see if you can answer it.

"Do you think that it was ok for former senator Yee to keep firearms out of the hands of civilians while he was negotiating with a Chinese Tong to illegally bring in actual machine guns, rocket launchers, and RPGs for criminals to use and/or sell on the actual Black Market?"

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 06:43 PM
That was a doozie alright
A politician lobbying/legislating for gun control at work
& after hours, supplying gangs w/automatic weapons
That to me is mental illness - a Dr Jeckyl-Mr Hyde type - at the very least a big time identity problem on the part of this elected official

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 08:03 PM
quote:
Of course this could be just you deciding that the discussion isn't going your way and want to quit and act like you won since the facts seem to get in the way of your agenda.


Pretty much. Since the Democratic answer for most things is "More laws/Legislation" if you choose not to agree.....then there is no point in continuing.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 09:40 PM
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Pretty much. Since the Democratic answer for most things is "More laws/Legislation" if you choose not to agree.....then there is no point in continuing.


If you don’t like it, move to another country.


 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 09:49 PM
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quote:
Pretty much. Since the Democratic answer for most things is "More laws/Legislation" if you choose not to agree.....then there is no point in continuing.


If you don’t like it, move to another country.




Well, if you don't like us owning firearms, you could move, to North Korea where nobody owns a firearm.

Tried to throw in a little Henny Youngman delay in there

You still haven't answered any of the questions I put forth.

I guess you're going to keep coming back with non relevant one liners as your contribution to the discussion.

But, if that's the way you put forth your opinion, keep at it.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 09:55 PM
quote:
quote:
Pretty much. Since the Democratic answer for most things is "More laws/Legislation" if you choose not to agree.....then there is no point in continuing.


If you don’t like it, move to another country.


Think I'll stay and take every opportunity to vote my conscience. You know what's great?

You can do the same

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 10:49 PM
This goes both ways. I have asked for the “mental health” solutions on many of these threads and have yet to see a single suggestion from the people who say the problem is not guns.

Why should a someone with mental illness or a domestic abuser be allowed to inherit or buy a weapon from a family member, even if they live miles from a dealer who can run a legit background check?

Also, the “one bad apple” example about a politician pushing gun control is pretty weak in defense of having everyone everywhere carrying guns.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 11:24 PM
quote:
Why should a someone with mental illness or a domestic abuser be allowed to inherit or buy a weapon from a family member


How do you stop this?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 11:26 PM
quote:
This goes both ways. I have asked for the “mental health” solutions on many of these threads and have yet to see a single suggestion from the people who say the problem is not guns.

Why should a someone with mental illness or a domestic abuser be allowed to inherit or buy a weapon from a family member, even if they live miles from a dealer who can run a legit background check?

Also, the “one bad apple” example about a politician pushing gun control is pretty weak in defense of having everyone everywhere carrying guns.


A person with a domestic abuse conviction is prohibited from owning, purchasing, or be in possession of a firearm. I'm pretty sure that the family would know about any charges or mental health issues within their group and find other ways to pass on the firearm.

Who said that the posts about Leland Yee was about everyone carrying firearms? it was about the issue of how some people that are fervently opposed to civilians owning firearms are actually working behind the scenes to help criminals get firearms that civilians cannot legally own without background checks to hold an FFL class III license.
The post is available for everyone to read. You can go back and check it if you want and see it doesn't say anything about arming everyone.

BoytonBrother used to push the mental health issue about having gun purchasers undergo a mental health test before they could get a permit to purchase, just like the ones given to police officers.
It was pointed out that there are quite a few bad police officers across the country and it seems that they weren't picked out as "bad apples" by the tests.

Would you suggest that we have every high school kid be subjected to mental health testing before they get a learners permit? I think they could use some testing before they take a large heavy machine out on the streets. Do you agree?

If not, where would you start doing your mandatory testing to find all those "millions" of mentally ill you refer to?

Note: Leland Yee was not the first, nor will he be the last one to be a "law and order" anti-gunner that had criminal dealings going in the background.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 11:26 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:

Anytime I see a politico fervently pushing "gun control", I think back about Leland Yee and his unabashed support for getting firearms out of the hands of the general public.
https://huffpost.com/entry/leland-yee-gun-trafficing_n_5038152

I also think about how Nancy Pelosi has a concealed carry permit when few in her district can't get one.


Anytime I see someone fervently pushing the idea that there are already too many obstacles and laws in the way of anybody getting their hands on a gun, I think back about Las Vegas, Sandy Hook, Orlando, Dayton, El Paso, Midland, Aurora, Columbine, Charleston, Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, Chattanooga, Virginia Beach, San Bernadino... and the other 40,000 annual firearm deaths in this country annually.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/30/2019 at 11:45 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:

Myself, i think all adult age citizens should own a pistol, rifle, and shotgun.


You want ALL adults to own three guns. The guy who follows the little league umpire to his car to cuss him out should have three guns. The guy who cuts people off in the grocery store parking lot to get the front parking spot should have three guns. The guy who has not been convicted of anything yet, but is currently stalking his ex-girlfriend should have three guns. The guy who gets kicked out of the bar every weekend should have three guns.



 
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