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Author: Subject: Baltimore votes down armed officers, changed minds

Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 02:38 PM
quote:
[quote ] Donít let a worship of the Second Amendment blind you of the First Amendment


Not sure I follow the attempt at logic here ......


Whatís difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country. The First Amendment gives me the ability to say there is something wrong without being hauled off to jail for dissent. You got all preachy about freedoms afforded by the Bill of Rights and suggested I emigrate. Since you seem to think that pointing out flaws in this country is not valid, I assumed you were not really giving the First Amendment much weight. Because my complaint and the thread discussion is about guns, I assumed you were referring to the Second.

Either way, I think most everybody caught the irony of your ďlove it or leave itĒ post.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 02:52 PM
quote:
Because my complaint and the thread discussion is about guns, I assumed you were referring to the Second.


No. I am always attempting to reference the unfortunate scenarios that exist because of freedom and that no new Law or "extra steps" in registering or the acquisition of a firearm deemed "over the top" is going to in anyway keep weapons out of the hands of criminals as long as there is a Black Market.

I have or offer no solutions, just pointing out what I feel will continue to be a "flaw" in our society that sadly will probably result in more innocent people losing their lives....

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 04:10 PM
quote:
. . . will continue to be a "flaw" in our society that sadly will probably result in more innocent people losing their lives....


It will get corrected eventually. My best guess is a total martial law clampdown at some point, indefinite suspension of rights.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 04:19 PM
quote:


I have or offer no solutions, just pointing out what I feel will continue to be a "flaw" in our society that sadly will probably result in more innocent people losing their lives....



That is exactly what I was doing when I said the gun nuts have ruined the place.

I am not sure why I would need to leave the country for that.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 04:49 PM
quote:
that no new Law or "extra steps" in registering or the acquisition of a firearm deemed "over the top" is going to in anyway keep weapons out of the hands of criminals as long as there is a Black Market.


You're telling me that you don't think the black market is a major hurdle and a deterrent for some entitled 18-year old brat with sh*tty parents? Going to the black market is risky, and makes their entire acquisition for a firearm a crime, and the perp can be caught by police in the act of purchasing. Some sort of responsible vetting process can weed these people out.

It doesn't matter. As long as there are people who want wide open doors to guns for all, then our kids will continue to be killed in school. Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 05:40 PM
quote:
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


"Every" public place?....or just schools?


 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 06:52 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Do you like the fact that we have mass shootings all of the time?


What part of Dont Like It Here Move dont you understand?

[Edited on 11/26/2019 by BrerRabbit]



I can't believe I had the nerve to say that I would prefer this country to have fewer gun deaths. I should have just left.


Nah, don't do that. I don't want more gun deaths, and would prefer to see a lot less.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 06:56 PM
quote:
Whatís difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country.


Come on adhill58, do you really believe all gun owners are nuts?

That's called painting with a broad brush.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 10:11 PM
quote:
quote:
Whatís difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country.


Come on adhill58, do you really believe all gun owners are nuts?

That's called painting with a broad brush.


I think people who think it is a good idea to have more guns than people in this country are nuts. I think people who say the answer to the problems caused by so many guns is more guns are nuts. I think people who would rather have schools and churches shot up than even start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws because it might infringe on their hobby/fetish are a-holes.

I donít think all gun owners are nuts, I never even remotely implied that. By gun nut, I mean someone who puts access to guns as a higher priority than public safety.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 10:20 PM
quote:
quote:
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


"Every" public place?....or just schools?





Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 10:35 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Whatís difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country.


Come on adhill58, do you really believe all gun owners are nuts?

That's called painting with a broad brush.


I think people who think it is a good idea to have more guns than people in this country are nuts. I think people who say the answer to the problems caused by so many guns is more guns are nuts. I think people who would rather have schools and churches shot up than even start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws because it might infringe on their hobby/fetish are a-holes.
___________________________________________________________________________ ________________

There is discussion. What do you think we are doing here? No one I know of wants to have any place endure a shooting incident.

Gun laws are constantly added, almost every time a shooting incident happens. Problem is, that the "legislators" don't realize that the laws they want are already on the books. There is even a law against murder, but it doesn't stop it from happening.

___________________________________________________________________________ ________________

I donít think all gun owners are nuts, I never even remotely implied that. By gun nut, I mean someone who puts access to guns as a higher priority than public safety.


___________________________________________________________________________ _______________

Read back to what you posted. You never refer to "those who are", just to "gun nuts". you don't differentiate at all, you include all. So what are we supposed to infer from your posts?

Myself, i think all adult age citizens should own a pistol, rifle, and shotgun. If their moral and religious beliefs are against them owning them, then they should do some type of compulsory social work in "distressed" areas to help teach and mentor kids on social manners and how to avoid being put into a situation where using a gun is not the answer.

Do you think that would help, or do you think gun confiscation is the answer?

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 10:43 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


"Every" public place?....or just schools?





Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.


Also airports

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 10:49 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


"Every" public place?....or just schools?





Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.


Also airports


They didn't have to envision it, it was already done in all places the public gathered since almost everybody was armed.

Women would have one in their purse or a pocket of their dress. Men would have one under their coat in their waistband.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 11:01 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Whatís difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country.


Come on adhill58, do you really believe all gun owners are nuts?

That's called painting with a broad brush.


I think people who think it is a good idea to have more guns than people in this country are nuts. I think people who say the answer to the problems caused by so many guns is more guns are nuts. I think people who would rather have schools and churches shot up than even start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws because it might infringe on their hobby/fetish are a-holes.
___________________________________________________________________________ ________________

There is discussion. What do you think we are doing here? No one I know of wants to have any place endure a shooting incident.

Gun laws are constantly added, almost every time a shooting incident happens. Problem is, that the "legislators" don't realize that the laws they want are already on the books. There is even a law against murder, but it doesn't stop it from happening.

___________________________________________________________________________ ________________

I donít think all gun owners are nuts, I never even remotely implied that. By gun nut, I mean someone who puts access to guns as a higher priority than public safety.


___________________________________________________________________________ _______________

Read back to what you posted. You never refer to "those who are", just to "gun nuts". you don't differentiate at all, you include all. So what are we supposed to infer from your posts?

Myself, i think all adult age citizens should own a pistol, rifle, and shotgun. If their moral and religious beliefs are against them owning them, then they should do some type of compulsory social work in "distressed" areas to help teach and mentor kids on social manners and how to avoid being put into a situation where using a gun is not the answer.

Do you think that would help, or do you think gun confiscation is the answer?


I did not say originally that gun nuts are anyone who owns a gun. V asked and I clarified.

My 75 year old mother is 4í10Ē and uses a cain because her inner ear balance mechanisms have been destroyed by chemotherapy. I donít know what benefits she would get from a pistol and a rifle and a shotgun. My older brother is a high school football coach who at the age of 45 still acts like a high school football player ready to show anybody who challenges him how tough he is. I am thrilled that he owns neither a pistol nor a rifle nor a shotgun.

If somebody wants to own a rifle to hunt, I am all for it.

Saying that ALL adults should own guns is ridiculous. Most people canít manage their own diets or not be sh!tty parents, why would we want to trust them with guns?

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 11:07 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


"Every" public place?....or just schools?





Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.


Also airports


They didn't have to envision it, it was already done in all places the public gathered since almost everybody was armed.

Women would have one in their purse or a pocket of their dress. Men would have one under their coat in their waistband.


Again, they also crapped in a hole in their front yard and assumed it was as good as it was going to get. Again, times change... hopefully in ways that make the public safer.

[Edited on 11/28/2019 by adhill58]

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 11:27 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:


I think people who think it is a good idea to have more guns than people in this country are nuts. I think people who say the answer to the problems caused by so many guns is more guns are nuts. I think people who would rather have schools and churches shot up than even start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws because it might infringe on their hobby/fetish are a-holes.
___________________________________________________________________________ ________________

There is discussion. What do you think we are doing here? No one I know of wants to have any place endure a shooting incident.

Gun laws are constantly added, almost every time a shooting incident happens. Problem is, that the "legislators" don't realize that the laws they want are already on the books. There is even a law against murder, but it doesn't stop it from happening.

?


This is not the discussion that needs to happen. I doubt the NRA and Senate Republicans are going to say, ďYou know Jerry and Adam and V had some good points over on the ABB forum.Ē

Also there have been over 200 people in this country this year that have wanted some place to endure a mass shooting incident and acted on their wishes.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/27/2019 at 11:30 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


"Every" public place?....or just schools?





Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.


Also airports


They didn't have to envision it, it was already done in all places the public gathered since almost everybody was armed.

Women would have one in their purse or a pocket of their dress. Men would have one under their coat in their waistband.


Again, they also crapped in a whole in their front yard and assumed it was as good as it was going to get. Again, times change... hopefully in ways that make the public safer.


They would go in the barn or stable.

In Germany during WWII some downed crewmen were captured because they couldn't follow the tradition of the local train station toilet was a long bench with holes in it over what the military calls a "slit trench" out in the open with males and females using it side by side. No walls, no dividers.
Which is a good story to learn while in Escape and Evasion school, but it has as much to do with the subject as the last line in your post.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2019 at 12:19 AM
quote:
start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws


You have the floor...Where would you start?

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/28/2019 at 01:06 AM
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quote:
start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws


You have the floor...Where would you start?


How about no private sales? If you want to sell your gun, you sell it to a licensed dealer who has to run a background check on the next person who owns it. It seems like a reasonable way to impede convicted domestic abusers from getting guns. If someone kills their ex-wife with your gun, you have to prove that they stole it from you.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2019 at 01:58 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws


You have the floor...Where would you start?


How about no private sales? If you want to sell your gun, you sell it to a licensed dealer who has to run a background check on the next person who owns it. It seems like a reasonable way to impede convicted domestic abusers from getting guns. If someone kills their ex-wife with your gun, you have to prove that they stole it from you.


I think the issue here is the application of any penalty for selling your gun. How do you prove it if the owner can just claim he never used it and one day it was just ...gone? Is the owner then as guilty as the individual who actually committed a crime in the form of a shooting?

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/28/2019 at 09:49 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws


You have the floor...Where would you start?


How about no private sales? If you want to sell your gun, you sell it to a licensed dealer who has to run a background check on the next person who owns it. It seems like a reasonable way to impede convicted domestic abusers from getting guns. If someone kills their ex-wife with your gun, you have to prove that they stole it from you.


I think the issue here is the application of any penalty for selling your gun. How do you prove it if the owner can just claim he never used it and one day it was just ...gone? Is the owner then as guilty as the individual who actually committed a crime in the form of a shooting?


Not as guilty. More like how bartenders can be held liable for car accidents. If the black market and inability to enforce existing laws are two problems that most people can agree on, wouldnít this go a long way? Most people donít want every adult to own three guns. Domestic abusers, parolees, people with mental illness, etc. can all buy guns without background checks in private sales right now.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2019 at 10:21 AM
Early education in the form of appropriate positive-based hands-on info that grade school-aged kids could understand, would be a sound first step IMO

As a kid I always played cops & robbers, cowboys & Indians & games like that w/cap guns or just toy guns - you knew thatís what they were & to stay away from the real thing lest you end up like a bad guy.....

The black market (private sales) is part&parcel of free enterprise - laws could be passed, yes - enforcing them, doubtful

[Edited on 11/28/2019 by Stephen]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2019 at 02:30 PM

quote:
More like how bartenders can be held liable for car accidents.



Not the best example: "there is a presumption that individuals should be responsible for how much alcohol they consume".

I agree wholeheartedly. People should be held fully responsible for their own actions. "If" a Bartender were to serve someone who is obviously incredibly intoxicated, this might hold water, just as if within the guidelines of the current background checks a Gun store were to sell a weapon of any kind to a person with a violent criminal history.....

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/28/2019 at 02:41 PM
quote:

quote:
More like how bartenders can be held liable for car accidents.



Not the best example: "there is a presumption that individuals should be responsible for how much alcohol they consume".

I agree wholeheartedly. People should be held fully responsible for their own actions. "If" a Bartender were to serve someone who is obviously incredibly intoxicated, this might hold water, just as if within the guidelines of the current background checks a Gun store were to sell a weapon of any kind to a person with a violent criminal history.....


So if you are not okay with a gun dealer selling the wrong person a weapon, why should a private individual be able to sell the weapon to the same person - knowingly or unknowingly?

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2019 at 03:19 PM
quote:
So if you are not okay with a gun dealer selling the wrong person a weapon


I am not. I think the immense difficulty is in how to legislate against this.

 

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