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Author: Subject: Where are the Republican Mental Health Solutions?

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 01:00 PM
quote:
Well, Charles Manson was held responsible for the Sharon Tate murders for doing nothing more than what Trump has done, influencing and inciting weak minded and mentally vulnerable, internally angry people to go out and commit violence, am I wrong???...........Peace......joe


You're not wrong. Jim Jones as well. In each case, it is always the outsiders fault. Always blame the media. That is the easy target. The only difference is when the cult is so big and wears MAGA hats, it becomes mainstream. But it doesn't keep the weak minded ones from hearing and reacting to the dog whistles.

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 01:12 PM
quote:
You're not wrong. Jim Jones as well. In each case, it is always the outsiders fault. Always blame the media. That is the easy target. The only difference is when the cult is so big and wears MAGA hats, it becomes mainstream. But it doesn't keep the weak minded ones from hearing and reacting to the dog whistles.


While the higher functioning "strong minded" devotees get more puffed up with glee and confidence every time the "weak minded" worker drones carry out their program. Whereupon the upper caste cultists act all shocked and immediately set to work protecting the Central Brain of Hive Mind.

Absolutely no point in engaging it in dialogue.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 01:32 PM
quote:
quote:
I agree that the white nationalist President may not intend for people to act on his words.



Well. there it is, it took a few posts, but once again the answer from the left always goes to color or racism.

What is wrong with placing the blame solely where it bongs?... ON THE SHOOTER


The shooter wrote a manifesto. It talks alot about...

(checks notes)

...color and racism.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 02:08 PM
quote:
Well, there ya go, can't be responsible for your own decision making?


The dude drove nine hours to kill as many Hispanic people as he could. He's taken responsibility for it, hell, he's proud of it.

What if he truly believes that America is being invaded by Hispanic people as a part of the Great Replacement, and he's fighting for the honor and sovereignty of his country?

Let's not pretend there's not been a ton of rhetoric and such portraying immigrants as sub-human invaders. Are you really that shocked someone took that to another level?

Is white supremacy a sign of mental illness?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 02:08 PM
quote:
quote:
You're not wrong. Jim Jones as well. In each case, it is always the outsiders fault. Always blame the media. That is the easy target. The only difference is when the cult is so big and wears MAGA hats, it becomes mainstream. But it doesn't keep the weak minded ones from hearing and reacting to the dog whistles.


While the higher functioning "strong minded" devotees get more puffed up with glee and confidence every time the "weak minded" worker drones carry out their program. Whereupon the upper caste cultists act all shocked and immediately set to work protecting the Central Brain of Hive Mind.

Absolutely no point in engaging it in dialogue.


This is the perfect analogy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great post.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 03:23 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I agree that the white nationalist President may not intend for people to act on his words.



Well. there it is, it took a few posts, but once again the answer from the left always goes to color or racism.

What is wrong with placing the blame solely where it bongs?... ON THE SHOOTER


Who wrote it? THE SHOOTER

The shooter wrote a manifesto. It talks alot about...

(checks notes)

...color and racism.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 03:28 PM
No talk from Trump today about how these mental health fixes are going to work...


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 03:31 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I agree that the white nationalist President may not intend for people to act on his words.



Well. there it is, it took a few posts, but once again the answer from the left always goes to color or racism.

What is wrong with placing the blame solely where it bongs?... ON THE SHOOTER


Who wrote it? THE SHOOTER

The shooter wrote a manifesto. It talks alot about...

(checks notes)

...color and racism.



You're right, the shooter wrote it.

"but once again the answer from the left always goes to color or racism"

No, it was the shooter's answer.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 04:09 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I agree that the white nationalist President may not intend for people to act on his words.



Well. there it is, it took a few posts, but once again the answer from the left always goes to color or racism.

What is wrong with placing the blame solely where it bongs?... ON THE SHOOTER


Who wrote it? THE SHOOTER

The shooter wrote a manifesto. It talks alot about...

(checks notes)

...color and racism.



You're right, the shooter wrote it.

"but once again the answer from the left always goes to color or racism"

No, it was the shooter's answer.


Then we agree?.....The sole responsibility falls on the shooter?....."Influences"..lol....the ultimate decision was his.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 04:18 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I agree that the white nationalist President may not intend for people to act on his words.



Well. there it is, it took a few posts, but once again the answer from the left always goes to color or racism.

What is wrong with placing the blame solely where it bongs?... ON THE SHOOTER


Who wrote it? THE SHOOTER

The shooter wrote a manifesto. It talks alot about...

(checks notes)

...color and racism.



You're right, the shooter wrote it.

"but once again the answer from the left always goes to color or racism"

No, it was the shooter's answer.


Then we agree?.....The sole responsibility falls on the shooter?....."Influences"..lol....the ultimate decision was his.


Pretty sure Hitler never pulled a trigger either. Never mind his influence. The fault always lies with the shooter. It's unfair to blame Hitler for anything. The sole responsibility lies with the shooter...always. Got it!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 04:39 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I agree that the white nationalist President may not intend for people to act on his words.



Well. there it is, it took a few posts, but once again the answer from the left always goes to color or racism.

What is wrong with placing the blame solely where it bongs?... ON THE SHOOTER


Who wrote it? THE SHOOTER

The shooter wrote a manifesto. It talks alot about...

(checks notes)

...color and racism.



You're right, the shooter wrote it.

"but once again the answer from the left always goes to color or racism"

No, it was the shooter's answer.


Then we agree?.....The sole responsibility falls on the shooter?....."Influences"..lol....the ultimate decision was his.


The sole responsibility? No.

You are a student of history. To dismiss any inflammatory rhetoric or communication from a powerful leader defies human history itself.

Unless, of course, one is willing to twist however far one needs to so he can prevent agreeing with anyone he perceives as a liberal. Then, all bets are off.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 04:59 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I agree that the white nationalist President may not intend for people to act on his words.



Well. there it is, it took a few posts, but once again the answer from the left always goes to color or racism.

What is wrong with placing the blame solely where it bongs?... ON THE SHOOTER


Who wrote it? THE SHOOTER

The shooter wrote a manifesto. It talks alot about...

(checks notes)

...color and racism.



You're right, the shooter wrote it.

"but once again the answer from the left always goes to color or racism"

No, it was the shooter's answer.


Then we agree?.....The sole responsibility falls on the shooter?....."Influences"..lol....the ultimate decision was his.
we have a president who spews venom and hatred toward Mexicans, calls them invaders, criminals, disease carriers, etc. we were bound to have a massacre of them. I did not see trump on tv calling out sympathy for the Mexican American community, and he won't, that would alienate his slimey supporters.

 

Peach Head



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 05:01 PM
we should be rejecting language from any leader that feeds into fear and hatred.
 

Peach Master



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 05:19 PM
quote:
Well, Charles Manson was held responsible for the Sharon Tate murders for doing nothing more than what Trump has done, influencing and inciting weak minded and mentally vulnerable, internally angry people to go out and commit violence, am I wrong???...........Peace......joe

YES, YOU ARE WRONG. Charles Manson, a career criminal starting as a juvenile with theft, pimping, assault, rape among other counts didn't manage to turn himself into a successful musician but did become the leader of a cult of mostly young women groupies who whored, stole, & supported him. Manson lived with them in a communal setting, told them what to do, & kept them in check through drugs, rape & fear. Every commune member who made a statement to investigators said they feared Manson.

The Tate/LaBianca KILLERS were convicted of 1st degree murder which at the time carried a death sentence. Manson was ALSO convicted of 1st degree murder & conspiracy & sentenced to death. In the interim, CA overturned capital punishment so all sentences became life imprisonment.

Manson never raised a NGRI (insanity) plea. He was portrayed as a druggie, belligerent, angry man but not mentally ill. It was not until his final parole hearing in 2012 when he was 78 YEARS OLD that a psychiatrist suggested he might be schizophrenic but couldn't be certain.

So, no, the POTUS who was elected, has never been convicted of a violent crime, doesn't have interpersonal relationships w/any mass shooters, and doesn't personally & physically confine citizens to a commune & control them w/drugs & rape, CANNOT BE COMPARED TO CHARLES MANSON or any other cult leader who ordered hits. MANSON DID SIGNIFICANTLY MORE THAN TRUMP.

KILLERS are responsible for murder. If others were involved, they can be charged. However, there still is personal accountability in the US for murder at least.

Reasonable people have been concerned that Trump's rhetoric could incite some individual to act, especially when the killer's actions in Charlottesville weren't immediately & strongly condemned by Trump. Racist fanatics have been emboldened. However, even on a music site that 20 people read, it's ludicrous to compare Manson to Trump. I hate everything about Trump & his corrupt organization & administration, but I do believe in the criminal justice system. I was tempted to ignore your post, but I chose to respond one last time.

BTW, you might want to re-consider your username since mental illness terms are being tossed around like word salad.






 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 05:22 PM
quote:
we have a president who spews venom and hatred toward Mexicans, calls them invaders, criminals, disease carriers, etc. we were bound to have a massacre of them.


What a bunch of crap. ANYONE who hears "venom" from any source has the power to walk away. If you are affected enough to feel a "call to action" that is on you and NO ONE ELSE

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 07:46 PM
quote:
quote:
we have a president who spews venom and hatred toward Mexicans, calls them invaders, criminals, disease carriers, etc. we were bound to have a massacre of them.


What a bunch of crap. ANYONE who hears "venom" from any source has the power to walk away. If you are affected enough to feel a "call to action" that is on you and NO ONE ELSE
Wrong. The scumbag in chief is provoking white nationalists, neo nazi punks and emboldens them with his big mouth.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2019 at 10:10 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
we have a president who spews venom and hatred toward Mexicans, calls them invaders, criminals, disease carriers, etc. we were bound to have a massacre of them.


What a bunch of crap. ANYONE who hears "venom" from any source has the power to walk away. If you are affected enough to feel a "call to action" that is on you and NO ONE ELSE
Wrong. The scumbag in chief is provoking white nationalists, neo nazi punks and emboldens them with his big mouth.


Is he provoking you?...Or are we going to give you the benefit of the doubt and applaud your ability to make your own decisions? Somewhere down the line these idiots are making a choice, that is on them, NO ONE ELSE.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/6/2019 at 12:50 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
we have a president who spews venom and hatred toward Mexicans, calls them invaders, criminals, disease carriers, etc. we were bound to have a massacre of them.


What a bunch of crap. ANYONE who hears "venom" from any source has the power to walk away. If you are affected enough to feel a "call to action" that is on you and NO ONE ELSE
Wrong. The scumbag in chief is provoking white nationalists, neo nazi punks and emboldens them with his big mouth.


Is he provoking you?...Or are we going to give you the benefit of the doubt and applaud your ability to make your own decisions? Somewhere down the line these idiots are making a choice, that is on them, NO ONE ELSE.
Im not a far right neo-nazi or klansman " are you?" They take his speeches and tweets as a call to arms. What other president talked his kind of **** ?.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/6/2019 at 01:15 AM
quote:
They take his speeches and tweets as a call to arms..


Well then, would not that make it their fault?...I mean they had a choice right?

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 8/6/2019 at 07:52 AM
We should be rejecting any leader who uses language that feeds into a climate of fear.
 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/6/2019 at 07:57 AM
quote:
quote:
They take his speeches and tweets as a call to arms..


Well then, would not that make it their fault?...I mean they had a choice right?



Right, but if they are so mentally ill, are they really capable of making real choices? Should anyone take that into consideration when making inflammatory statements knowing that these same severely mentally ill people probably possess a bunch of guns?

Suppose I went to a mental hospital where people are involuntarily committed and told the patients that the people responsible for their confinement lived on the east side of town. Then one of them escapes and kills somebody on the east side of town. Is there more than one person to blame in that situation?

I just think that asking the mentally ill to take responsibility and make better decisions can't be the ONLY solution.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 8/6/2019 at 09:25 AM
quote:

Right, but if they are so mentally ill, are they really capable of making real choices? Should anyone take that into consideration when making inflammatory statements knowing that these same severely mentally ill people probably possess a bunch of guns?

Suppose I went to a mental hospital where people are involuntarily committed and told the patients that the people responsible for their confinement lived on the east side of town. Then one of them escapes and kills somebody on the east side of town. Is there more than one person to blame in that situation?

I just think that asking the mentally ill to take responsibility and make better decisions can't be the ONLY solution.


Are you genuinely interested in mental health or are you just mocking people w/mental illness in this thread knowing that not one mass shooter had a mental illness?

You're probably surrounded by people w/a mental illness - OCD (compulsively checking their phone), bipolar disorder (overspending, overeating, over exercising), clinical depression (above average function when on medication), or anxiety disorder (fear of flying, meeting new people, or being in unfamiliar place who present a perfectly placid demeanor) just as you are w/physical illness (diabetes, heart disease, high PSA level).

You seem to think ALL people w/mental illness have substandard IQs, are violent, & have a stockpile of weapons. Your example isn't only ignorant, it's offensive. There's no such thing as your local mental hospital. There's a locked unit in a general hospital for 72 hour holds for schizophrenics off their meds or addicts violently acting out when the jail is full. Alzheimer's patients often end up in a psych unit if they're lost or violent. If people are sick enough to be hospitalized they're incapable of coming up w/a plan never mind carrying it out. And I mean a plan to make a telephone call to the intended person not to escape, obtain a weapon & murder someone on your suggestion. They know who involuntarily committed them - a judge. Because they're patients in a psych unit, they legally lack capacity to make decisions. They would most likely be found legally incompetent to stand trial. So, there's no question of responsibility. Think it through, man.

People who are drunk or high present a much more immediate danger than an anorexic teenager.



[Edited on 8/6/2019 by cyclone88]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/6/2019 at 12:26 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
we have a president who spews venom and hatred toward Mexicans, calls them invaders, criminals, disease carriers, etc. we were bound to have a massacre of them.


What a bunch of crap. ANYONE who hears "venom" from any source has the power to walk away. If you are affected enough to feel a "call to action" that is on you and NO ONE ELSE
Wrong. The scumbag in chief is provoking white nationalists, neo nazi punks and emboldens them with his big mouth.


Is he provoking you?...Or are we going to give you the benefit of the doubt and applaud your ability to make your own decisions? Somewhere down the line these idiots are making a choice, that is on them, NO ONE ELSE.


Vince, as far as I can tell, we've been conversing and arguing at this website for about 13 years now.

Over those years, you've made your views on illegal immigration and the laws passed around the matter quite clear during that time.

So, if I may ask a few questions, and yes, I have a point.

1. Do you believe that the United States of America is currently being invaded by Hispanic immigrants, both legal and illegal?
2. In the case of illegals, do you believe that the problem should be dealt with using deadly force?
3. Do you believe that the Democratic party and American liberals support allowing anyone and everyone into the country in order to create a new voting bloc and take jobs and a multitude of other things away from American citizens?
4. Do you believe that the country is being changed and/or lost because of immigration, legal or illegal?
5. Do you support the Second Amendment and a citizen's right to defend themselves or their country when the time comes?

I don't think you're mentally ill. I probably already know the answers to these questions. Even if you were to tell me that you believe that the country is being invaded and you are willing to do anything and everything to defend it, I still wouldn't think you were mentally ill. What I would think is that you were devoted to a cause defined by a set of beliefs and you are prepared to defend them, just as millions of others have felt throughout the course of human history. Wars have been fought over a great many things, up to and including inflammatory rhetoric. Take the American Civil War...certainly no shortage of rhetoric or inflammation leading up and during that one. Was everyone acting individually, of their own accord, all mentally ill?

The point is...El Paso Shooter feels perfectly justified, as he was acting in defense of his country, therefore, that's his rationalization and justification for his actions. Kinda like Timothy McVeigh.

Both of them mentally ill? To be honest, I'm not so sure. In a way, that's even more terrifying. What is different between the two is that the President's rhetoric and messages is clearly found in a manifesto. Is the President directly responsible? No. Is the President culpable? Hells to the yeah.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/6/2019 at 09:39 PM
quote:
quote:

Right, but if they are so mentally ill, are they really capable of making real choices? Should anyone take that into consideration when making inflammatory statements knowing that these same severely mentally ill people probably possess a bunch of guns?

Suppose I went to a mental hospital where people are involuntarily committed and told the patients that the people responsible for their confinement lived on the east side of town. Then one of them escapes and kills somebody on the east side of town. Is there more than one person to blame in that situation?

I just think that asking the mentally ill to take responsibility and make better decisions can't be the ONLY solution.


Are you genuinely interested in mental health or are you just mocking people w/mental illness in this thread knowing that not one mass shooter had a mental illness?

You're probably surrounded by people w/a mental illness - OCD (compulsively checking their phone), bipolar disorder (overspending, overeating, over exercising), clinical depression (above average function when on medication), or anxiety disorder (fear of flying, meeting new people, or being in unfamiliar place who present a perfectly placid demeanor) just as you are w/physical illness (diabetes, heart disease, high PSA level).

You seem to think ALL people w/mental illness have substandard IQs, are violent, & have a stockpile of weapons. Your example isn't only ignorant, it's offensive. There's no such thing as your local mental hospital. There's a locked unit in a general hospital for 72 hour holds for schizophrenics off their meds or addicts violently acting out when the jail is full. Alzheimer's patients often end up in a psych unit if they're lost or violent. If people are sick enough to be hospitalized they're incapable of coming up w/a plan never mind carrying it out. And I mean a plan to make a telephone call to the intended person not to escape, obtain a weapon & murder someone on your suggestion. They know who involuntarily committed them - a judge. Because they're patients in a psych unit, they legally lack capacity to make decisions. They would most likely be found legally incompetent to stand trial. So, there's no question of responsibility. Think it through, man.

People who are drunk or high present a much more immediate danger than an anorexic teenager.



[Edited on 8/6/2019 by cyclone88]


I was actually just trying to make a point in the very oversimplified discussion that was taking place.

I am absolutely not mocking people with mental illness. I am right there with you in agreeing that probably a majority of people have at least one form of mental illness, it may be minor or life-changing. My dad is in a nursing home for the last 16 moths due to Parkinsons-related issues including dementia. He is not going out and buying a gun anytime soon.

I am mocking the the lack of any logic or action in the same old Republican talking points that get dragged out after every new mass shooting. Republicans have no actual interest in treating mental health issues in this country. These mass shooters are not "mentally ill" like my aunt with anxiety, and they should be called what they actually are: psychopaths and terrorists.


There is no definition to what Republicans call "mentally ill" until after the person has committed a terrible crime.

There is no Republican plan for funding the treatment of mental health issues, THAT THEY CLAIM, might help stop these events.

In fact Republicans have always sided with health insurance companies that have always resisted providing mental health coverage. It has really only been widely covered by private insurers since Obamacare took effect.

The largest administrators of mental health services in the country are Medicare and Medicaid, which are not exactly where Republicans are happy to see our tax dollars end up, and the jail system.

Most mass shooters buy their guns legally and are not flagged as a mental health threat at the time, so I don't know what they are suggesting that would change that situation.

Anything that interferes with a single gun sale is dead-on-arrival for most Republican legislators because they are terrified about their NRA report card slipping.

The Republican Party and the NRA (which are the same thing) have been peddling this crap, at the expense of millions of people with mental illness, for decades at this point. Yet they have not explained what any such solution might entail nor have they attempted to enact any such solutions. It is just a way to eat up oxygen until the press coverage goes down and they can get back to making it easier for gun companies to sell guns.

For Republicans, apparently no number of victims is enough to trip up the business model of those who profit form flooding our country with dangerous weapons. Otherwise they would have done literally anything except what they have done for the last twenty years.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 8/6/2019 at 10:14 PM
quote:
I was actually just trying to make a point in the very oversimplified discussion that was taking place.

I am absolutely not mocking people with mental illness. I am right there with you in agreeing that probably a majority of people have at least one form of mental illness, it may be minor or life-changing. My dad is in a nursing home for the last 16 moths due to Parkinsons-related issues including dementia. He is not going out and buying a gun anytime soon.

I am mocking the the lack of any logic or action in the same old Republican talking points that get dragged out after every new mass shooting. Republicans have no actual interest in treating mental health issues in this country. These mass shooters are not "mentally ill" like my aunt with anxiety, and they should be called what they actually are: psychopaths and terrorists.

There is no definition to what Republicans call "mentally ill" until after the person has committed a terrible crime.

There is no Republican plan for funding the treatment of mental health issues, THAT THEY CLAIM, might help stop these events.


Glad you cleared that up. In other words, we agree that mental illness as accurately described by the medical profession has nothing to do with mass shootings. It's a misnomer that's trotted out when the appropriate words are terrorist & sociopath to distract from the real issue of the availability of weapons (the exception being Charlottesville when the weapon was a car).

IMO it's not a partisan issue. There are plenty of people on the other side of the aisle who haven't figured out that terrorism isn't a mental illness that can be treated.

I've always wondered exactly how a mental status exam would be administered to a potential gun purchaser by a gun store clerk whose sole interest is making a sale. That is definitely a scenario worthy of mockery.



 
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