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Author: Subject: Officially Declared Democrat 2020 POTUS Candidates

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/30/2019 at 03:27 PM
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Did anyone catch any of the debates this past week? I didn't but of course heard Kamala Harris garnered the most attention by most accounts...I don't agree with her entire platform, but like her intelligence and toughness. I'm also glad she called out Biden (who I'm not a big fan of) on some of his past stances on issues.


I have watched every minute. My honest take is that these Candidates are going to keep trying to pound a square peg into a round hole because " this is what we do"


The bigger question is who is Trump's next victim of pounding his peg into a hole. Remember, he never met any of his victims.


Once again, I have watched every minute of the debates and feel the leadership of the democratic party is lost for this reason in particular (among many)..If you've watched, there was a moment in the last debate where the question was asked "Should everyone, including illegal aliens receive medical benefits"? ALL of them raised their hands. Does the democratic Party represent all of their constituents? or just the extreme left? Their are zero voting democrats who do not agree with this? Think that show of hands alienated ......anyone? The Dems have so far to go in realizing that not everyone votes in a straight line.

Biggest mistake they can make?...Nominating another "older" hard liner in Joe Biden. Obama won with youth and change, everything Biden is not.

I predict right now that Kamala Harris will be the nominee and that she will talk HC into being her V.P.

That, is change.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/30/2019 at 03:52 PM
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I tend to think that Kamala can and will elevate.

Martin, why do you think she will not become a front-runner? Are you taking the angle that "America" isn't ready for a black woman President? I think if we limited poll respondents to "likely Democrat voters" that she has potential to poll quite well, perhaps a leading role at some point.

I don't have anything against Biden, I think he could be fine in the role of POTUS. One thing that really seemed odd last night, 3x I believe, there must be some kind of light that the candidates can see when their time is up or when a commercial break is coming, 3 times I think, Biden stopped talking dead in his tracks and yielded - almost like he was relieved to be "saved by the bell" or something. It was really odd. Not a great night for Joe and I am kind of pessimistic that these debates are going to help him much.


I'm one of those who choose words carefully. The original question by bigv was "Kamala Harris - the new front runner?" To me this is <> to your question, "why do you think she will not become a front-runner?" There is a difference here between "a front runner" and "the front runner". My initial response was an implication that as a result of this debate she will not overtake Biden. In time...maybe...we'll see.

Your next question - "Are you taking the angle that "America" isn't ready for a black woman President?" Response - no, or at least I hope not. She is quite skilled in prosecuting issues as witnessed when she took apart Attorney General Barr when he testified before the Senate as well as her performance last night. Quite frankly, it would be better than reality TV to see her eat Trump's lunch in a debate. She appears to be quite strong, and I doubt Trump could handle her. She's too quick & too smart for him. I suspect she would be much much stronger on stage opposing Trump than HC. If she is the nominee, she certainly has my vote. I would like to see her on the ticket as prez or VP nominee.

We'll see where the next polls take us. Who knows as dynamics potentially shift as result of events such as debates. They evolve. My gut tells me Biden remains at the top possibly dropping a few % points, Warren gains maybe enough to surpass Bernie, and that Harris gains. The actual numbers in the next polls (plural) will be interesting.


Here's the Morning Consult Poll narrative following the debate.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/30/20611577/kamala-harris-el izabeth-warren-2020-primary-third-post-debate-poll

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/30/2019 at 03:58 PM
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Did anyone catch any of the debates this past week? I didn't but of course heard Kamala Harris garnered the most attention by most accounts...I don't agree with her entire platform, but like her intelligence and toughness. I'm also glad she called out Biden (who I'm not a big fan of) on some of his past stances on issues.


I have watched every minute. My honest take is that these Candidates are going to keep trying to pound a square peg into a round hole because " this is what we do"


The bigger question is who is Trump's next victim of pounding his peg into a hole. Remember, he never met any of his victims.


Once again, I have watched every minute of the debates and feel the leadership of the democratic party is lost for this reason in particular (among many)..If you've watched, there was a moment in the last debate where the question was asked "Should everyone, including illegal aliens receive medical benefits"? ALL of them raised their hands. Does the democratic Party represent all of their constituents? or just the extreme left? Their are zero voting democrats who do not agree with this? Think that show of hands alienated ......anyone? The Dems have so far to go in realizing that not everyone votes in a straight line.

Biggest mistake they can make?...Nominating another "older" hard liner in Joe Biden. Obama won with youth and change, everything Biden is not.

I predict right now that Kamala Harris will be the nominee and that she will talk HC into being her V.P.

That, is change.


Your prediction is laughable. HC is done as prez or VP candidate. I will bet you $100.00 or even $1000.00 right here right now that HC will not be on the ticket. Will you step up to the plate and back your prediction?

 

True Peach



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  posted on 6/30/2019 at 05:22 PM
The election is a long way off, Biden could croak, Mayor Pete could get caught getting a tuggie from Beto?, lots of time folks!.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/1/2019 at 01:04 AM
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Your prediction is laughable.


OK, point taken, you disagree with my prediction. Let's laugh together!...Ready? Hahahahaha!

Now, do you feel like addressing the hands being raised in support of medical benefits for Illegal Immigrants?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 7/1/2019 at 10:24 AM
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Your prediction is laughable.


OK, point taken, you disagree with my prediction. Let's laugh together!...Ready? Hahahahaha!

Now, do you feel like addressing the hands being raised in support of medical benefits for Illegal Immigrants?


I didn't surprise me that you wouldn't have the fortitude to step up and back your prediction with anything more than deflection.

To answer your deflection - I don't support providing medical benefits to illegal immigrants.

I also don't condone Trump's policy of family separation.

 

Peach Head



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  posted on 7/1/2019 at 11:00 AM
i would hope every single one of us here would call 911 if an illegal alien was dying in front of our eyes. in this scenario the alien would receive free medical benefits, then be arrested and deported, and we taxpayers would foot the bill. while an unfortunate reality, this is the humane thing to do, and itís how Jesus wants Christians to be.

i pray I live long enough to see our country rise above these click bait distractions.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 7/1/2019 at 11:23 AM
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i would hope every single one of us here would call 911 if an illegal alien was dying in front of our eyes. in this scenario the alien would receive free medical benefits, then be arrested and deported, and we taxpayers would foot the bill. while an unfortunate reality, this is the humane thing to do, and itís how Jesus wants Christians to be.

i pray I live long enough to see our country rise above these click bait distractions.



I don't disagree here. So let me clarify my position - I don't have a problem with necessary medical care which is not the same as medical benefits. There is a difference. That is an entire discussion unto itself.

These are complicated issues from multiple angles - compassion, social, economic, political, legal, etc. Somehow society needs to figure the best and acceptable / reasonable solutions.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/1/2019 at 04:14 PM
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I didn't surprise me that you wouldn't have the fortitude to step up and back your prediction with anything more than deflection.


Fortitude ? Are you serious?...That's your choice of verbiage for one who predicts the outcome of a Political Parties nomination process?

quote:
I don't support providing medical benefits to illegal immigrants.


We agree here

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I also don't condone Trump's policy of family separation.


Did you throw your support behind this policy when the Obama administration did the exact same thing?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 7/1/2019 at 04:48 PM
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I didn't surprise me that you wouldn't have the fortitude to step up and back your prediction with anything more than deflection.


Fortitude ? Are you serious?...That's your choice of verbiage for one who predicts the outcome of a Political Parties nomination process?

quote:
I don't support providing medical benefits to illegal immigrants.


We agree here

quote:
I also don't condone Trump's policy of family separation.


Did you throw your support behind this policy when the Obama administration did the exact same thing?


"Fortitude ? Are you serious?...That's your choice of verbiage for one who predicts the outcome of a Political Parties nomination process?"

No - not the prediction. The challenge to your prediction. Sorry you wouldn't accept a challenge. I put hard $ behind it because I'm more than convinced that you will be proven dead wrong and was thinking you might back your belief in a friendly bet. I was prepared to donate the $ to charity. Several years ago an acquaintance bet me that Obama would not be reelected. I donated the $100.00 that he lost to an inner city school here.

You like to make your points then move on to do a follow up & unrelated question. I guess I could do the same and ask you about Trump's G-20 meetings kissing ass to Putin & MBS and giving accolades & kind words to these dictators, murderers, and abusers of human rights violations, but I won't waste my time.

Re: Obama - do a google search on family separation Obama. Below are just the start of many hits for context and perspective.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/did-the-obama-administration-separate-fam ilies/

Donald Trump, again, falsely says Obama had family separation policy ...
https://www.politifact.com/.../donald-trump-again-falsely-says-obama-had-fa mily-s/

Claim: "When I became president, President Obama had a separation policy. I didnít have it. He had it."
Claimed by: Donald Trump
Fact check by PolitiFact: False
Feedback
Trump again falsely says Obama started family separation policy
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/.../06/...obama...family-separation/154 0733001/
Jun 23, 2019 - Trump said Obama initiated the policy of separating those children from their caregivers, even though fact checkers have found that claim to be ...
Trump Falsely Claims Obama Began Migrant Family Separations | Time
https://time.com õ Politics õ White House

Jun 23, 2019 - President Donald Trump dismissed the plight of migrant children housed in U.S. detention centers and falsely claimed that his predecessor enacted a policy to separate kids from their caregivers after they illegally cross the border. Asked in an interview broadcast Sunday about ...

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/1/2019 at 09:54 PM
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Jun 23, 2019 - President Donald Trump dismissed the plight of migrant children housed in U.S. detention centers and falsely claimed that his predecessor enacted a policy to separate kids from their caregivers after they illegally cross the border. Asked in an interview broadcast Sunday about ...


quote:
It isn't the fault of law enforcement that people get separated. It's the fault of the perpetrator. If someone enters this country illegally and knows he's in the country illegally and is found to be in the country illegally and is ordered removed from the country and chooses to have a child in this country that's a U.S. citizen by virtue of birth, he put himself in that position, so ICE is not separating that family.


Thomas Homan, Obamaís executive associate director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 7/1/2019 at 10:31 PM
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It isn't the fault of law enforcement that people get separated. It's the fault of the perpetrator. If someone enters this country illegally and knows he's in the country illegally and is found to be in the country illegally and is ordered removed from the country and chooses to have a child in this country that's a U.S. citizen by virtue of birth, he put himself in that position, so ICE is not separating that family.


a classic ďif x then zĒ charade by Homan, who conveniently made that comment after Obama left office. ďif itís not law enforcementís fault, it must be the migrants.Ē what fool believes there are no other options? the leader should also be in the discussion, especially since one chose to decriminalize migrants, and the other chose to criminalize them.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/1/2019 at 10:53 PM
quote:
quote:
It isn't the fault of law enforcement that people get separated. It's the fault of the perpetrator. If someone enters this country illegally and knows he's in the country illegally and is found to be in the country illegally and is ordered removed from the country and chooses to have a child in this country that's a U.S. citizen by virtue of birth, he put himself in that position, so ICE is not separating that family.


a classic ďif x then zĒ charade by Homan, who conveniently made that comment after Obama left office. ďif itís not law enforcementís fault, it must be the migrants.Ē what fool believes there are no other options? the leader should also be in the discussion, especially since one chose to decriminalize migrants, and the other chose to criminalize them.


Here's my issue with that sentiment.

"Are illegal immigrants breaking the Law"?

Then they have zero right to complain about the consequences

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 7/2/2019 at 07:24 AM
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Here's my issue with that sentiment.

"Are illegal immigrants breaking the Law"?

Then they have zero right to complain about the consequences


migrants seeking asylum are not illegal immigrants. thatís a pretty big distinction that we must make if we want to be responsible.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/2/2019 at 08:19 AM
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Here's my issue with that sentiment.

"Are illegal immigrants breaking the Law"?

Then they have zero right to complain about the consequences


migrants seeking asylum are not illegal immigrants. thatís a pretty big distinction that we must make if we want to be responsible.




Think "seeking asylum" has become a "loophole"?....Now they have to be processed and tell me, where do you keep this many "asylum seekers"? That is over 140,000 in one month. Only a Democrat would argue that is our "obligation" to care for these people and every Candidate at that debate raised their hand in support of these "asylum seekers" receiving free health care.....

Way to hand the WH right back to them man you despise

Btw, thae above graph is from the Dept of Homeland security/U.S. customs and border protection. But as you Dems like to say "It's a manufactured crises"!

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 7/2/2019 at 09:30 AM
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Only a Democrat would argue that is our "obligation" to care for these people


good grief. i think Iíll exit the conversation now.

to clarify for everyone on the board Obama in no way did the same things Trump is doing regarding family separations. anyone suggesting this is irresponsibly failing to acknowledge a major distinction in policy, in an attempt to deflect and smear.

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 7/2/2019 at 09:34 AM
If they are in US custody they are entitled to humane treatment.
 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 7/2/2019 at 11:21 AM
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If they are in US custody they are entitled to humane treatment.


You are correct, but Trumpco would take exception. Compassion at its best.

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/trump-administration-argues-detained-migrant-chi ldren-may-not-necessarily-need-soap-toothbrushes

"Trump administration argues detained migrant children may not necessarily need soap, toothbrushes"

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/2/2019 at 11:27 AM
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Only a Democrat would argue that is our "obligation" to care for these people


good grief. i think Iíll exit the conversation now.

to clarify for everyone on the board Obama in no way did the same things Trump is doing regarding family separations. anyone suggesting this is irresponsibly failing to acknowledge a major distinction in policy, in an attempt to deflect and smear.


Wrong, the Obama policy was to separate children from adults when there was no documentation stating the accompanying adults were the Parents. As time has passed and the border and its facilities continue to be overwhelmed, this is just one more loophole illegal immigrants are exploiting.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/2/2019 at 11:28 AM
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If they are in US custody they are entitled to humane treatment.


Agreed, until they can be humanely returned to the border

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 7/2/2019 at 11:36 AM
They should and will be afforded basic comfort, adequate nutrition and medical care while detained on US soil. Even our prisons provide this.

Playing the blame game and arguing about legal status does not change the reality that is occurring. The US has to care for these people when they are detained.

The only obvious alternative is immoral, inhumane, unAmerican, and anyone who supports it is a dirty nazi.

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 7/2/2019 at 11:55 AM
If children are separated from their parents and unable to be reunited then they are wards of the US. Automatic citizenship. You break it, you buy it.

[Edited on 7/2/2019 by BrerRabbit]

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 7/2/2019 at 12:02 PM
I'm not really sure why this is an issue or a even a question. Any home owner knows that if something is on your property, you're likely responsible for it. That's why the U.S. has been deporting illegal immigrants consistently under every administration.

So, if you're an illegal immigrant and you end up at the hospital, you'll most likely be reported to INS and deported because they take your information upon admittance. That means it's not like there are illegal immigrants getting comfortable long-term stays while receiving expensive cancer treatment or liver transplant surgeries and sending the bill to tax payers/insurance companies. They are avoiding hospitals and clinics if they can because they get documented

But, if an illegal immigrant is in a car wreck, he's going to be treated because that's the humane, hippocratic thing to do. Once healed, likely deported, so it's not likely we can give him (or his country of origin) a hospital bill on his way out. It happened on our property, you mitigate the damage.

Sadly, thanks to the profit-driven U.S. Health Insurance industry, there are plenty of citizens who can't afford their emergency medical bills, which should be the actual issue.

[Edited on 7/2/2019 by porkchopbob]

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 7/2/2019 at 12:16 PM
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I'm not really sure why this is an issue or a even a question.


Same here. But conditions for detainees are deteriorating, so reality is kicking in - if we don't like the idea of concentration camps then we are going to have to regard this situation as a necessary expense.

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 7/2/2019 at 01:11 PM

That's right, no way around it. It is a crisis. It is real. It is happening. We either handle it with justice and compassion, incurring expense in the process, or we incur expense in "final solution" tactics that will cost plenty too, and infinitely more costly in loss of national character.

 
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