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Author: Subject: Christians and Obamacare

Peach Extraordinaire





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  posted on 12/6/2018 at 08:12 AM
Is there anyone here that considers themselves a Christian, but opposes Obamacare? I’m hoping to understand that. Throughout the Bible, Jesus helps the less fortunate. It’s what Christian children are taught in Vacation Bible School. Yet when Obama proposes ACA, the most devout Christians in the country not only oppose the idea, but hate the man for even suggesting such a horrible idea. Wouldn’t a Christian be happy about it?
 
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Peach Head



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  posted on 12/6/2018 at 04:42 PM
I'm an atheist who supports Obamacare.

Does that count?

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2018 at 05:25 PM
quote:
I'm an atheist who supports Obamacare.

Does that count?


It does to me...........Peace.........joe

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2018 at 05:50 PM
Not even remotely "religious" count me among those who think Churches should be Taxed.

That being said, Helping your fellow man is a damn good thing. I just don't think it's up to the Government to decide that you should so. If you want to help those in need, write a check and send it off to what ever charitable organization you deem worthy.

Now to address the argument from the left that not everyone will do this, therefore Gov't needs to step in....

No.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2018 at 05:55 PM
quote:
Not even remotely "religious" count me among those who think Churches should be Taxed.

That being said, Helping your fellow man is a damn good thing. I just don't think it's up to the Government to decide that you should so. If you want to help those in need, write a check and send it off to what ever charitable organization you deem worthy.

Now to address the argument from the left that not everyone will do this, therefore Gov't needs to step in....

No.


Yet government decides on our behalf to subsidize all kinds of private companies for business expansion and in bailouts when businesses fall on hard times / are in need of assistance. The 2nd part of that could be seen as charity.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2018 at 06:02 PM
quote:
quote:
Not even remotely "religious" count me among those who think Churches should be Taxed.

That being said, Helping your fellow man is a damn good thing. I just don't think it's up to the Government to decide that you should so. If you want to help those in need, write a check and send it off to what ever charitable organization you deem worthy.

Now to address the argument from the left that not everyone will do this, therefore Gov't needs to step in....

No.


Yet government decides on our behalf to subsidize all kinds of private companies for business expansion and in bailouts when businesses fall on hard times / are in need of assistance. The 2nd part of that could be seen as charity.


No! to this as well

Merry Christmas!

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2018 at 09:04 PM
quote:
Is there anyone here that considers themselves a Christian, but opposes Obamacare? I’m hoping to understand that. Throughout the Bible, Jesus helps the less fortunate. It’s what Christian children are taught in Vacation Bible School. Yet when Obama proposes ACA, the most devout Christians in the country not only oppose the idea, but hate the man for even suggesting such a horrible idea. Wouldn’t a Christian be happy about it?
I'm a Christian who opposes Obamacare. Jesus made it clear that we were to help each other as individuals; He never said that the government should be involved in this.

As far as the government taxing churches is concerned, I'm opposed to this because it could easily give the gov't far too much influence over churches and other religious organizations. Religion must be free and uncontrolled. I infer this from the First Amendment. Once the gov't can interfere with church finances, etc., it becomes too easy to develop favorites, eventually leading to theocracies.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 12/6/2018 at 09:44 PM
quote:
quote:
Is there anyone here that considers themselves a Christian, but opposes Obamacare? I’m hoping to understand that. Throughout the Bible, Jesus helps the less fortunate. It’s what Christian children are taught in Vacation Bible School. Yet when Obama proposes ACA, the most devout Christians in the country not only oppose the idea, but hate the man for even suggesting such a horrible idea. Wouldn’t a Christian be happy about it?
I'm a Christian who opposes Obamacare. Jesus made it clear that we were to help each other as individuals; He never said that the government should be involved in this.

As far as the government taxing churches is concerned, I'm opposed to this because it could easily give the gov't far too much influence over churches and other religious organizations. Religion must be free and uncontrolled. I infer this from the First Amendment. Once the gov't can interfere with church finances, etc., it becomes too easy to develop favorites, eventually leading to theocracies.


Fair enough, but is the church not guilty of overstepping the first amendment by constantly influencing the govt. to legislate morality?

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2018 at 09:46 PM
The government pays for the education of those who can't pay for their own. School lunches for the poor get paid for. Expensive special ed programs get paid for. Are good Christians against the government doing that, as well?
 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2018 at 09:53 PM
Am against taxing religious establishments , but am for an accounting of every penny. Rolls Royces, Swiss ski vacations, Vegas whores, tax exemption revoked right now. This would keep the heat off smaller honest outfits who would be killed by taxation, who do a lot of good in their communities and put the screws to the organized crime religious mafias.

[Edited on 12/7/2018 by BrerRabbit]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2018 at 10:02 PM
quote:
The government pays for the education of those who can't pay for their own. School lunches for the poor get paid for. Expensive special ed programs get paid for. Are good Christians against the government doing that, as well?


Where do you draw the line?....Maybe the Gov't could/should pay for everything.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2018 at 10:06 PM
quote:
Where do you draw the line?


You'll know where the line is when you're one toke over it, sweet Jesus.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 12:58 AM
quote:
Is there anyone here that considers themselves a Christian, but opposes Obamacare? I’m hoping to understand that. Throughout the Bible, Jesus helps the less fortunate. It’s what Christian children are taught in Vacation Bible School. Yet when Obama proposes ACA, the most devout Christians in the country not only oppose the idea, but hate the man for even suggesting such a horrible idea. Wouldn’t a Christian be happy about it?


I'm not sure if I'm Christian or not, I'm religiously confused. I thought the primary objection religious people had with Obamacare was the whole birth control, abortion thing?

I don't know.

There are members of my family that are very active in charitable giving and volunteering with nonprofits. I've helped. When it comes down to it, people give their time and money to causes, organizations and people they believe in or feel connected to. What anyone does contributing their personal money and time is really different than what the government does with it. I mean, nobody I know ever thinks that they are making a difference via their taxes or some other government program that we are funding. There is no satisfaction or pride in the fact that our tax dollars might go somewhere to somebody who needs it. Yeah, some of the money the federal government gets goes back to people that need it most, but where is the control, where is the oversight, how much is lost along the way? And ultimately there is just no connection to the people who are receiving the assistance.

For people who really want to make a positive impact don't just rely upon and take for granted that the federal government is going to do it for you. There are so so many generous people who make a difference every day in both simple and extraordinary ways, I've seen it. Do what you think is right for yourself and the people around you and the community you live in. Lots of individuals and groups making a difference locally you can find. Don't trust far away groups to do the right thing with your money or your intentions, see it through yourself and love thy neighbor.

[Edited on 12/7/2018 by nebish]

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 07:37 AM
quote:
I'm a Christian who opposes Obamacare. Jesus made it clear that we were to help each other as individuals; He never said that the government should be involved in this.


Right, but don’t you think Jesus would support a government to help its people with regards to healing those who are unfortunate? He may not have specifically referenced “government”, but if we had to guess which way he’d vote on it........

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 10:11 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Is there anyone here that considers themselves a Christian, but opposes Obamacare? I’m hoping to understand that. Throughout the Bible, Jesus helps the less fortunate. It’s what Christian children are taught in Vacation Bible School. Yet when Obama proposes ACA, the most devout Christians in the country not only oppose the idea, but hate the man for even suggesting such a horrible idea. Wouldn’t a Christian be happy about it?
I'm a Christian who opposes Obamacare. Jesus made it clear that we were to help each other as individuals; He never said that the government should be involved in this.

As far as the government taxing churches is concerned, I'm opposed to this because it could easily give the gov't far too much influence over churches and other religious organizations. Religion must be free and uncontrolled. I infer this from the First Amendment. Once the gov't can interfere with church finances, etc., it becomes too easy to develop favorites, eventually leading to theocracies.


Fair enough, but is the church not guilty of overstepping the first amendment by constantly influencing the govt. to legislate morality?
I don't think so. All laws legislate morality. I don't know whether any particular church or denomination acts as a unified whole. As individuals we have the right to influence government.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 10:12 AM
quote:
The government pays for the education of those who can't pay for their own. School lunches for the poor get paid for. Expensive special ed programs get paid for. Are good Christians against the government doing that, as well?
I don't think the primary purpose of government (at least at the federal level) is to provide these services. There should be safeguards for catastrophes, but I think these programs should be left to the states or the parents.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 10:17 AM
quote:
quote:
Is there anyone here that considers themselves a Christian, but opposes Obamacare? I’m hoping to understand that. Throughout the Bible, Jesus helps the less fortunate. It’s what Christian children are taught in Vacation Bible School. Yet when Obama proposes ACA, the most devout Christians in the country not only oppose the idea, but hate the man for even suggesting such a horrible idea. Wouldn’t a Christian be happy about it?


I'm not sure if I'm Christian or not, I'm religiously confused. I thought the primary objection religious people had with Obamacare was the whole birth control, abortion thing?

I don't know.

There are members of my family that are very active in charitable giving and volunteering with nonprofits. I've helped. When it comes down to it, people give their time and money to causes, organizations and people they believe in or feel connected to. What anyone does contributing their personal money and time is really different than what the government does with it. I mean, nobody I know ever thinks that they are making a difference via their taxes or some other government program that we are funding. There is no satisfaction or pride in the fact that our tax dollars might go somewhere to somebody who needs it. Yeah, some of the money the federal government gets goes back to people that need it most, but where is the control, where is the oversight, how much is lost along the way? And ultimately there is just no connection to the people who are receiving the assistance.

For people who really want to make a positive impact don't just rely upon and take for granted that the federal government is going to do it for you. There are so so many generous people who make a difference every day in both simple and extraordinary ways, I've seen it. Do what you think is right for yourself and the people around you and the community you live in. Lots of individuals and groups making a difference locally you can find. Don't trust far away groups to do the right thing with your money or your intentions, see it through yourself and love thy neighbor.

[Edited on 12/7/2018 by nebish]
The activities you mention are Christlike. Whether you're a Christian is between you and God, but consider that "being a Christian" means committing your life to following Christ, acknowledging Him as the one and only Son of God, and believing that He rose from the dead. He had only two commands: "And He answered, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.'" (Luke 10:27)

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 10:33 AM
quote:
Am against taxing religious establishments , but am for an accounting of every penny. Rolls Royces, Swiss ski vacations, Vegas whores, tax exemption revoked right now. This would keep the heat off smaller honest outfits who would be killed by taxation, who do a lot of good in their communities and put the screws to the organized crime religious mafias.

[Edited on 12/7/2018 by BrerRabbit]
Amen!

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 10:54 AM
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He had only two commands: "And He answered, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.'" (Luke 10:27)


The second one is most interesting. “Love your neighbor as yourself”. Very subjective in nature, and I imagine we all have our own opinions about what it means to love thy neighbor. But forget what WE think......would Jesus support tax dollars to provide healthcare to those less fortunate? I just don’t see him objecting for any reason, do you?

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 11:07 AM
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would Jesus support tax dollars to provide healthcare to those less fortunate? I just don’t see him objecting for any reason, do you?


Yes, I do, because tax dollars make it mandatory. Is not Jesus about giving because you want to?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 11:10 AM
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I don't think the primary purpose of government (at least at the federal level) is to provide these services.


Boom

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 11:34 AM
quote:
quote:
He had only two commands: "And He answered, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.'" (Luke 10:27)


The second one is most interesting. “Love your neighbor as yourself”. Very subjective in nature, and I imagine we all have our own opinions about what it means to love thy neighbor. But forget what WE think......would Jesus support tax dollars to provide healthcare to those less fortunate? I just don’t see him objecting for any reason, do you?
In the Parable of the Good Samaritan He made this unarguably clear.

The Samaritans and the Jews despised each other. After the Jew had been beaten and left for dead, a priest and a levite (a type of priest) passed him rather than helping him. Only a Samaritan, an enemy, took care of him. He even took him to an inn, paid for his time there, and offered to cover any further expenses.

There's more. In the culture of the time, there was a custom called "blood vengeance", if I remember right. The idea was that if someone kills my brother, I have the moral responsibility to take vengeance on him. If I can't find him, a member of his family will do.

The Samaritan risked this kind of vengeance by getting involved. I don't understand the psychology or history of this, but it was a real concern in the situation, and Jesus' audience knew this. Essentially He wasn't just saying to love one's neighbor (or enemy) He was saying to do so regardless of the risks.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 12:07 PM
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Essentially He wasn't just saying to love one's neighbor (or enemy) He was saying to do so regardless of the risks


If I were a betting man, I’d bet that someone with this belief system would welcome Obamacare with open arms. Arguing that Jesus would oppose Obamacare seems impossible.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 12:20 PM
quote:
quote:
Essentially He wasn't just saying to love one's neighbor (or enemy) He was saying to do so regardless of the risks


If I were a betting man, I’d bet that someone with this belief system would welcome Obamacare with open arms. Arguing that Jesus would oppose Obamacare seems impossible.
I don't agree. Voluntary assistance matches His statements, but forced government assistance doesn't.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/7/2018 at 12:33 PM
Sure would be cool if the topic of insurance was this cut and dried.

 

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