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Author: Subject: General Motors Closing Plants Cutting Jobs

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 12:25 PM
How much of the average Joe's Tax dollar goes toward subsidizing this floundering whale?

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 01:15 PM
Cars are basically just a means to consume oil. Any car domestic or foreign, keeps the oil-based economy rolling. The initial cost of a car is just the tip of the iceberg - that machine generates plenty moolah for the country. Next time you give a dirty look at someone driving a beat up Toyota, remember they gotta fillerup too.
 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 04:26 PM
GM, aka Greed Inc., is suffering from poor management and a line of cars people do not want.

All the crap about tariffs and "alternative energy" cars is a diversion from the reality of an inadequately run company, bad designs and technology which is lagging behind their competitors.

GM problem is self-inflicted.





 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 04:44 PM
Not true at all - as usual. My family has always had GM cars - I am on my second Equinox and love it.....

My wife has a Trax, my boys have Impalas, and my daughter has a Sonic. All have been good solid cars.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 05:08 PM
Saudi is providing plenty of jobs, likely in the trillions by now, so this shouldn’t be an issue so sayeth the Repubs.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 05:18 PM
quote:
Not true at all - as usual. My family has always had GM cars - I am on my second Equinox and love it.....

My wife has a Trax, my boys have Impalas, and my daughter has a Sonic. All have been good solid cars.



If their cars are so good why are their sales so bad?
What excuse are you using for GMs layoffs and plant closings?


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 06:04 PM
Trump tariffs is part of it ...... has nothing to do with the quality of the cars - I think all car dealers are having issues.....
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 06:05 PM
Ford also dropped sedans at the end of the second quarter - it's not just GM
 

Peach Master



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 06:36 PM
The Chrysler dealer here told me a few years ago that the cars on his lot were just about wasted space as his business was the truck/SUV sales.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 06:40 PM
quote:
How much of the average Joe's Tax dollar goes toward subsidizing this floundering whale?


How much of the average Joe's tax dollar should go toward paying for Trump's beautiful wall - you know - the same one he campaigned on ad nauseum insisting that Mexico would pay for the wall. You know - the same wall that "President Donald Trump would "totally be willing" to shut down the federal government if Congress does not approve $5 billion for construction of a wall along the U.S.-Mexican border, he said during an Oval Office interview with Politico."


 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 07:36 PM
quote:
Ford also dropped sedans at the end of the second quarter - it's not just GM


Ford adapted to a changing market, closed no plants and hired more workers.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 08:44 PM
quote:
Trump tariffs is part of it ...... has nothing to do with the quality of the cars - I think all car dealers are having issues.....


quote:
Ford also dropped sedans at the end of the second quarter - it's not just GM


quote:
The Chrysler dealer here told me a few years ago that the cars on his lot were just about wasted space as his business was the truck/SUV sales.


The tariffs are really not part of this decision. A $33,000-$35,000 car would see cost increases of $144-175 due to increased steel price. Just because imported steel has a 10% tariff increasing the cost, or manufacturers are forced to source higher priced US steel, as the raw material moves through the production process that cost gets spread out quite a bit. Those figures are from Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross (we'll call him biased), but also echoed by an anti-tariff and anti-protectionist market analyst firm (IHS Markit's John Mothersole).

I'm not saying that higher input costs may not have negative consequences for some companies. What we are dealing with here is declining sales on autos that the consumer is losing interest in. The decision to discontinue these slumping models has little to do with a minimal % increase of cost per auto.

Happy you buy GM products and glad you are satisfied with them. How ironic though that each model you listed is made outside the US.

People aren't buying cars right now. The auto companies are all adapting. GM probably has more excess US capacity than the other companies. If they want to cease production on these cars, fine. Just build the other ones that people do want and are buying here.

These kinds of decisions happen way in advance. GM didn't just decide this at their 2018 Q3 meeting. That is why many people are so upset that the announced the production of a new model in Mexico, when now we know, they likely already had plans to idle these plants. What should've happened is one of these now idled plants should be retooled to build that new model.

All quotes below from earlier this year when GM announced the reintroduction of the Chevy Blazer would be built in Mexico:

quote:
"On the same day GM is laying off workers in Youngstown (then Lordstown's second shift), the company is bypassing American workers and sending more jobs to Mexico. GM should reverse this irresponsible decision, and use its tax windfall to invest in American workers," said Senator Sherrod Brown


quote:
"This news that the iconic Blazer nameplate will be built in Mexico is disappointing to UAW families and communities across this country. GM employs over 15,000 production workers in Mexico, pays the workers less than $3 per hour and exports over 80% of the vehicles to the U.S. to sell here. This is all happening while UAW-GM workers here in the U.S are laid off and unemployed. We in the UAW have always supported products manufactured and produced in the U.S. and will continue to do so as a part of the fabric of our union," said UAW President Terry Dittes.


quote:
Dear Ms. Barra,

As a Member of Congress who voted during the Great Recession to provide economic aid to embattled domestic automakers, I am very disappointed at the recent announcement by General Motors (GM) to manufacture the Chevy Blazer at the Ramos Arizpe, Mexico plant. This decision is an insult to hard-working families all across the country. Thousands of GM workers in America-including the second and third shifts at Lordstown-who have been permanently laid off are hearing the news that GM is sending jobs to Mexico instead of putting people back to work here.

General Motors had pledged to invest more than $1 billion in domestic factories and create 7,000 new jobs, which makes today's announcement more troubling, especially in conjunction with the second shift at Lordstown plant officially ending this past weekend. The men and women of our community walked out of the plant for the last time with anxiety and concern for the future, and woke up recently to learn that GM is creating jobs in Mexico.

In response to the elimination of the second shift, your statement said that "we're working hard to get additional business for the complex." This morning's announcement proves that while there is plenty of investment in the 15,000 production workers in Mexico - and their sub-par wages of less than $3 per hour-more can and should be done by GM to position the Lordstown plant for next 20 years. As GM employees around the country are being laid off, I am requesting an explanation for this decision and urging GM to reconsider and bring the jobs back to the United States.

The men and women of my district are ready to go back to work, and I stand ready to support GM in promoting domestic job creation. I appreciate your attention to this matter, and I look forward to your response outlining the reasons behind this decision. Should you have any questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to contact me or my staff anytime.

Sincerely,
Tim Ryan
Member of Congress



 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 09:12 PM
It would be nice if GM used their tax windfall to keep those jobs in the US, but unfortunately the new tax law wasn't set up in a way to encourage that. That said, it is seems rediculous that Trump is throwing a fit about this when he and his family continue to manufacture their products in China (and set everything up so that their families products do not face tariffs).
 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 09:20 PM
quote:
It would be nice if GM used their tax windfall to keep those jobs in the US, but unfortunately the new tax law wasn't set up in a way to encourage that. That said, it is seems rediculous that Trump is throwing a fit about this when he and his family continue to manufacture their products in China (and set everything up so that their families products do not face tariffs).



Obama's tax money bailout for GM lacked any stipulations that GM build and hire American. Obama's wanted what turned out to be the Volt which Gm is now discontinuing due to lack of sales.

"The new tax law" had nothing to do with bailing out GM's incompetent management.

The rest of your post is your typical ignorant rant about something that has nothing to do with the GMs failures.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 09:43 PM
quote:
It would be nice if GM used their tax windfall to keep those jobs in the US, but unfortunately the new tax law wasn't set up in a way to encourage that. That said, it is seems rediculous that Trump is throwing a fit about this when he and his family continue to manufacture their products in China (and set everything up so that their families products do not face tariffs).


I 100% agree with your feelings about the Trump family products and have always and will always say that.

And I also agree, corporations have armies of lawyers and tax analysts so they can fully maximize their returns and minimize their expenses, which taxes are one. The old system, foreign profits earned and held overseas were not taxed at all. So while the tax on foreign earnings is less than that on domestic earnings, it is an improvement still and overall the corporate tax reform bill made operating and earning profit inside the US more attractive than it had been - so that is an incentive. I think corporations will be capitalizing on any and every advantage they see, some of that will be here and some of that will be there. I would certainly personally prefer more of it to be here and would not give any preferential treatment to foreign earnings vs domestic earnings, but I must acknowledge that there may have been good reason to help US businesses compete abroad with the lower rate.

The US has sweetened the incentive to be here. For those that don't want to come (or stay) and sell their goods here, there are different ways to also incentivize that (or penalize them not doing so).

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 10:45 PM
Here are some figures for thought.

This was on a CNBC graphic - 2017 US auto sales = 17.23 million
Sales by where built:
US 56%
Mexico 12.5%
Canada 11.6%
Japan 9.3%
Europe 6.7%
Korea 4.9%

56% of 17.23 million is 9,648,800
44% is 7,581,200

The trade.gov link at the bottom of this post says 2017 saw 8,271,840 units imported (passenger and light truck)(231,901 medium and heavy trucks imported).

US Exports of passenger vehicle and light trucks for 2017 was 1,983,979 and I'm not sure how medium and heavy trucks get factored in (commercial vehicles), but we can state those here as 129,575. A January 2018 Automotive News article stated exports to be 1.4 million.

Whichever source is used, be it 7.5mill or 8.2mill, there is quite a disparity on the number of autos imported into the US and the number exported, 1.9mill or 1.4mill.

Foreign producers are more dependent on sales here than US producers are dependent on foreign sales.

https://www.trade.gov/td/otm/autostats.asp

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 11:01 PM
An interesting informed opinion:

Don't blame Donald Trump's tariffs for GM layoffs
https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/editorials/2018/11/28/president-donald- trump-gm-tariffs/2128278002/


 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 11:22 PM
quote:
An interesting informed opinion:

Don't blame Donald Trump's tariffs for GM layoffs
https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/editorials/2018/11/28/president-donald- trump-gm-tariffs/2128278002/




That is a good contribution to the thread.

A couple things that popped in my mind reading it. With Chrysler, Ford and now GM reducing or abandoning car production, that is definitely going to hand more sales in that segment to the foreign brands.

We and they say things like "nobody is buying cars". That isn't exactly factual. There are still alot of people buying cars, just not enough to justify their production based on volume and margins.

The Impala for instance, US sales were 44,000 in the first 3 quarters this year. The Cruze they sold 110,000 US. Now for perspective the high water mark for the Cruze was 2014 when they sold over 273k. And the Impala has declined every year since 2010's 172k.

Chevy still has some cars in their portfolio, but the people who are still interested in buying cars are going to buy cars, they just aren't going to be buying the discontinued nameplates. Those sales are going to go do somebody.

I also think that with all the assembly and production plant talk, I have overlooked the 8,000 while collar jobs. Some of those definitely could be management at the plants, but some must be in engineering and other office type jobs. That is concerning because GM can do R&D or accounting anywhere, so they could be getting rid of some of that work to offshore. Another big concern that isn't getting as much attention.

A final thing I thought about when they were talking about what could, if anything swing people back to cars and they mention an oil embargo or a large gas tax. While large trucks and SUVs are very popular, take a closer look at alot of the SUVs you see on the road. And if you want to go one step further, take a look at some of the engines they are offering. Very small displacement 4 and 6 cylinders with active fuel management on V8s to make those engines run with less fuel when they can. Heck, what Ford has been doing with their small engines, fuel economy and still producing power is pretty amazing.

So the movement is towards trucks and SUVs, many of the ones on the road now are different than they were 10 years ago and alot different than what we had out there 20+ years ago.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/28/2018 at 11:26 PM
Another thing before I run off here, a lighter note, I can probably understand why GM has to save some money because they apparently have plowed it all into their holiday advertising budget! Are you all seeing that same annoying commercial over and over where the couple goes outside and the guy gets a his and hers truck and SUV, the truck was supposed to be for him but the girl loves it. The last 2 weeks I must've seen that commercial well over 100 times. Now I watch alot of TV right now with football season, still I think anyone even just watching TV occasionally would be getting blasted with that commercial. You all seeing it?
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2018 at 12:12 AM
Yes - I hate that commercial - it is on all the time......

Saw an article today that blamed a lot on the republican tax plan - makes it beneficial for companies to have assets in other countries.....

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2018 at 08:39 AM
I have no problem with anyone criticizing the President for his statements or lack of effective leadership.

Two things related to the steel/aluminum tariffs and the tax plan regarding this GM news. I know opponents of the President and his policies will make any and every attempt to link economic problems to this administrations actions, but I think it is important to remember that this was a global restructuring plan announced by GM. They are deallocating a plant in Canada and their official press release states they will cease operations at two additional plants outside of North America by the end of 2019. Actions taken at facilities in Canada and around the globe have nothing to do with US imposed steel and aluminum tariffs and contradict the foreign asset holding for tax purposes argument since apparently they stand to have fewer foreign assets as a result of this announcement.

Here is the full GM official release:
https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/ en/2018/nov/1126-gm.html

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2018 at 12:50 PM
quote:
Are you all seeing that same annoying commercial over and over where the couple goes outside and the guy gets a his and hers truck and SUV, the truck was supposed to be for him but the girl loves it.


I don't watch television and will never purchase a new American Car.

GM, Ford & Chrysler are all out of step. Who under the age of 80 buys a Lincoln or a Cadillac these days?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2018 at 02:14 PM
quote:
quote:
How much of the average Joe's Tax dollar goes toward subsidizing this floundering whale?


How much of the average Joe's tax dollar should go toward paying for Trump's beautiful wall - you know - the same one he campaigned on ad nauseum insisting that Mexico would pay for the wall. You know - the same wall that "President Donald Trump would "totally be willing" to shut down the federal government if Congress does not approve $5 billion for construction of a wall along the U.S.-Mexican border, he said during an Oval Office interview with Politico."





I suggest a tax deduction for rich people to make a contribution towards building the wall, and a check off box for the rest of us on our tax returns you know where they have those "do you want to contribute $1 towards the presidential re-election campaign boxes. Let people contribute $1 or $5 or $10. They have all those boxes for people to contribute towards different charities, but the wall is vital to the security interests of this country. So let people contribute $1 or more towards building the wall. Let volunteers from former military and retired construction etc. workers be able to work on the wall, rather than just having some companies bid on building it. Let the bidding companies have oversight and exclusivity in the essential parts of the structure, but there is no reason you cannot have other volunteers who will help transport materials, remove debris etc. Make it a nationwide effort and the wall will be built.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2018 at 02:19 PM
quote:
quote:
Are you all seeing that same annoying commercial over and over where the couple goes outside and the guy gets a his and hers truck and SUV, the truck was supposed to be for him but the girl loves it.


I don't watch television and will never purchase a new American Car.

GM, Ford & Chrysler are all out of step. Who under the age of 80 buys a Lincoln or a Cadillac these days?


"Who under the age of 80 buys a Lincoln or a Cadillac these days?"

People whose parents thought those cars were status symbols, but since their parents couldn't afford them, they now buy them to show how successful they are. Sad to say it impacted a whole generation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nkxACJkqjM



 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2018 at 02:29 PM
Used to own two Saturns. LOVED those cars and that company. If they were still around, I'd still be driving one.

Then I owned a Pontiac. LOVED it. If they were still around, I'd still be driving one.

Then I went and test drove a Toyota and a Chevrolet.

Been driving Toyotas ever since. Stuff happens, I guess.

 

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