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Author: Subject: Why is the Immigration Problem so Difficult

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/3/2018 at 03:41 PM
We should close the border until the legalities of asylum are resolved. Trump has said if the protesters get violent and throw rocks they can be shot (that's what Israel does to the Palestinians who throw rocks at them). This could get out of hand very quickly.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/3/2018 at 05:27 PM
quote:
We should close the border until the legalities of asylum are resolved. Trump has said if the protesters get violent and throw rocks they can be shot (that's what Israel does to the Palestinians who throw rocks at them). This could get out of hand very quickly.


The ports of entry can be closed. Closing all of any of our borders is impossible.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/4/2018 at 09:23 AM
My dad RIP had two sayings. 1 - "People only talk about sex and money when they don't have enough." And 2 - "People for the most part don't kill each other when there is enough to go around."

Hate to sound apocalyptic but the worlds resources are overtaxed by a wide margin. Dirty water; overfishing; climate change. We are overpopulated by billions.

So here in America people can't afford health care. When our grandparents came into the country c 1900 they were vouched fo (and will pay cashr. Charities paid for housing and health care. There was no Medicare/Medicaid.

I work in health care in an underserved largely immigrant (many undocumented) area. I worry about the ability of my young adult children to find jobs with health care. Despite what the government says there are people who come in the country illegally who have coverage within the month. Especially the children.

I have advocated for 20 years to amend the constitution so that people born here are citizens. It is absolutely insane that someone is entitled to the same benefits for life just cause their mother happened to be in the US during childbirth. And it is not just "happened." Women intentionally come here to get citizenship for their kids; often hoping for chain migration. Wealthy people fly in (and will even pay cash) so that their child has the protection of American citizenship.

Medicare and Social Security are in a death spiral due to underfunding. Health care costs are spiraling. I have a mildly handicapped child who would be set if we had some form of national health care. He works; benefits are tough to come by.

So everyone who thinks racism is at the root of anti-immigration sentiment is not looking at the big picture. You have not seen the big picture concerning the social costs of illegal immigration; especially re health care.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/4/2018 at 09:36 AM
"__________________________________________________________________________ _____________
My dad RIP had two sayings. 1 - "People only talk about sex and money when they don't have enough." And 2 - "People for the most part don't kill each other when there is enough to go around."

Hate to sound apocalyptic but the worlds resources are overtaxed by a wide margin. Dirty water; overfishing; climate change. We are overpopulated by billions.

So here in America people can't afford health care. When our grandparents came into the country c 1900 they were vouched fo (and will pay cashr. Charities paid for housing and health care. There was no Medicare/Medicaid.

I work in health care in an underserved largely immigrant (many undocumented) area. I worry about the ability of my young adult children to find jobs with health care. Despite what the government says there are people who come in the country illegally who have coverage within the month. Especially the children.

I have advocated for 20 years to amend the constitution so that people born here are citizens. It is absolutely insane that someone is entitled to the same benefits for life just cause their mother happened to be in the US during childbirth. And it is not just "happened." Women intentionally come here to get citizenship for their kids; often hoping for chain migration. Wealthy people fly in (and will even pay cash) so that their child has the protection of American citizenship.

Medicare and Social Security are in a death spiral due to underfunding. Health care costs are spiraling. I have a mildly handicapped child who would be set if we had some form of national health care. He works; benefits are tough to come by.

So everyone who thinks racism is at the root of anti-immigration sentiment is not looking at the big picture. You have not seen the big picture concerning the social costs of illegal immigration; especially re health care."

___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

Agree

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/4/2018 at 09:43 AM
quote:
"____________________________________________________________________ ___________________
My dad RIP had two sayings. 1 - "People only talk about sex and money when they don't have enough." And 2 - "People for the most part don't kill each other when there is enough to go around."

Hate to sound apocalyptic but the worlds resources are overtaxed by a wide margin. Dirty water; overfishing; climate change. We are overpopulated by billions.

So here in America people can't afford health care. When our grandparents came into the country c 1900 they were vouched fo (and will pay cashr. Charities paid for housing and health care. There was no Medicare/Medicaid.

I work in health care in an underserved largely immigrant (many undocumented) area. I worry about the ability of my young adult children to find jobs with health care. Despite what the government says there are people who come in the country illegally who have coverage within the month. Especially the children.

I have advocated for 20 years to amend the constitution so that people born here are citizens. It is absolutely insane that someone is entitled to the same benefits for life just cause their mother happened to be in the US during childbirth. And it is not just "happened." Women intentionally come here to get citizenship for their kids; often hoping for chain migration. Wealthy people fly in (and will even pay cash) so that their child has the protection of American citizenship.

Medicare and Social Security are in a death spiral due to underfunding. Health care costs are spiraling. I have a mildly handicapped child who would be set if we had some form of national health care. He works; benefits are tough to come by.

So everyone who thinks racism is at the root of anti-immigration sentiment is not looking at the big picture. You have not seen the big picture concerning the social costs of illegal immigration; especially re health care."

___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

Agree


X3

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/4/2018 at 10:56 AM
quote:
I work in health care in an underserved largely immigrant (many undocumented) area


Some of their coverage goes in your pocket. at least you are making a decent living off the situation - despite the drawbacks you mentioned.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/4/2018 at 03:19 PM
quote:
quote:
I work in health care in an underserved largely immigrant (many undocumented) area


Some of their coverage goes in your pocket. at least you are making a decent living off the situation - despite the drawbacks you mentioned.


Doesn't make it right, and it doesn't include that in an emergency everyone i entitled to care through a hospital. Lots of 3:00AM visits that the providers don't ever get paid for.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/4/2018 at 08:34 PM
quote:
You have not seen the big picture concerning the social costs of illegal immigration; especially re health care.


As a healthcare professional, you must know these costs pale in comparison to what obesity does to our healthcare system. Our doctors offices and hospitals across the country, in all states and cities, are over-saturated and burdened with obese Americans needing treatment for lifestyle diseases......diseases they wouldn’t have if they had the self control to take care of their bodies. If we’re going to talk about burdening our healthcare system, it begins with obesity.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/4/2018 at 09:15 PM
Obesity i a huge problem; but there is no mechanism in our system of healthcare for punishing people for being non compliant. No one can legally be reufused emrgency care at a hospital; so there is no means of punishment.
But these are our citizens

And btw obesity; hypertension; diabetes are rampant in the underclass as well as immigrants. It adds to the costs of caring for them

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/4/2018 at 09:27 PM
quote:
But these are our citizens


Priority #1

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/4/2018 at 09:42 PM
quote:
But these are our citizens[/quote[

I’m just saying that it’s our own citizens’ obesity problem that is by far the largest burden on our healthcare system.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/4/2018 at 11:08 PM
quote:
quote:
You have not seen the big picture concerning the social costs of illegal immigration; especially re health care.


As a healthcare professional, you must know these costs pale in comparison to what obesity does to our healthcare system. Our doctors offices and hospitals across the country, in all states and cities, are over-saturated and burdened with obese Americans needing treatment for lifestyle diseases......diseases they wouldn’t have if they had the self control to take care of their bodies. If we’re going to talk about burdening our healthcare system, it begins with obesity.


May I ask, what does this have to do with the illegal immigrant caravans?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/5/2018 at 10:40 AM
quote:
May I ask, what does this have to do with the illegal immigrant caravans?


emr posted the excerpt that I quoted about how the caravan, along with illegal immigration in general, is a risk of burdening our healthcare system, which I point out is true, but far from the largest burden on the system, which is the epidemic of obesity. Worst part about it is that our system can be freed and be a well-oiled machine if people would just take care of themselves.

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 11/5/2018 at 06:31 PM
So if there weren't as many fat white guys we could allow more illegal aliens, many of whom are also fat, don't speak English and are not US citizens?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2018 at 09:45 AM
quote:
It's very simple. Escort them across the border to camps. In the camps they are interviewed as to what status do they seek.
Do they seek long term asylum of more than 5 years.
Do they seek short term asylum of 2 or less years.
Do they seek to be recognized as a refugee from a conflict.
Do they wish to apply for an immigration visa?
Do they wish to become citizens?

When they declare their intentions, we offer to allow them to remain in the camps until their status is settled, a DNA sample is gathered, and a non-removable GPS bracelet is issued.

After the DNA check shows the subject has no issues through law enforcement, it is then used to determine if the subject really belongs with the family he claimed upon arrival.

No one is released except whole families who have a certified sponsor who is responsible for their behavior(physical and monetary) while waiting for their court appearance.

Families with small children should get first court appearance (out of this group) with husband/wife couples next. Then brother/sister, brother/brother, each type of family grouping, would come next as the courts clear.

If there are any unaccompanied children in the caravan, they are placed in foster homes after any medical problems are taken care of.

Speaking of which, upon arrival at the camps a military induction style medical exam should be given each person. Eye, ear, nose, and throat, bend over and smile, turn head and cough, urine-blood-stool samples, teeth, joints and bones, heart health, should all be done. Any one with a communicable disease is isolated
and treated.

Anyone who has had problems with law enforcement, been previously deported, gives false information on the asylum papers, will face immediate deportation. They will need to be loaded onto a military C-130, handcuffed with chains locked into the air frame, flown to an airport of their home country, and turned over to the local authorities.

Anybody have something they want to add or discuss about on this post feel free to let me know.



So, let's get back to the original topic.

Why do you think the immigration problem is so difficult?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/6/2018 at 04:22 PM
quote:
So, let's get back to the original topic.

Why do you think the immigration problem is so difficult?


Well, for one, what do you mean by “immigration problem”? Do you mean illegal immigration or immigration in general?

It’s hard to find the right balance I guess. Farmers, businesses, and large corporations all rely on their cheap labor, and we also need the world’s best innovators to choose the U.S. for work. Going too far to the right could compromise that. Going too far left could be a huge financial burden. Finding the perfect middle ground will always be the challenge.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2018 at 05:14 PM
quote:
quote:
So, let's get back to the original topic.

Why do you think the immigration problem is so difficult?


Well, for one, what do you mean by “immigration problem”? Do you mean illegal immigration or immigration in general?

It’s hard to find the right balance I guess. Farmers, businesses, and large corporations all rely on their cheap labor, and we also need the world’s best innovators to choose the U.S. for work. Going too far to the right could compromise that. Going too far left could be a huge financial burden. Finding the perfect middle ground will always be the challenge.


The cheap labor isn't so cheap when you factor in the social costs. Restaurants and builders made fortunes hiring illegals. Everyone else pays the bills.

 

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  posted on 11/6/2018 at 09:04 PM
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Restaurants and builders made fortunes hiring illegals. Everyone else pays the bills.


Which makes me wonder if both sides intentionally keep policies as loose as they are.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2018 at 09:09 PM
quote:
quote:
So, let's get back to the original topic.

Why do you think the immigration problem is so difficult?


Well, for one, what do you mean by “immigration problem”? Do you mean illegal immigration or immigration in general?

It’s hard to find the right balance I guess. Farmers, businesses, and large corporations all rely on their cheap labor, and we also need the world’s best innovators to choose the U.S. for work. Going too far to the right could compromise that. Going too far left could be a huge financial burden. Finding the perfect middle ground will always be the challenge.


Why don't we go with ILLEGAL immigration. Legal immigrants seem to be able to follow the rules and laws to get here so i don't think they are a problem.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2018 at 09:15 PM
quote:
quote:
Restaurants and builders made fortunes hiring illegals. Everyone else pays the bills.


Which makes me wonder if both sides intentionally keep policies as loose as they are.


There is no doubt that this was a bipartisan disaster for 30 years. Everyone wanted cheap labor. Remember when you were a kid and company owners actually performed manual labor rather than bringing along a truckfull of illegals?

 

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  posted on 11/6/2018 at 09:17 PM
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Why don't we go with ILLEGAL immigration. Legal immigrants seem to be able to follow the rules and laws to get here so i don't think they are a problem.


Same principle. Business owners and farmers, who tend to be Republican, rely on them for cheap labor. The left wants to help them. Both sides have a need to let them in. I think Republicans may be vocal about opposing illegal immigration, but vote the other way to keep the cheap labor flowing for their business owner lobbyists.

 

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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 10:43 AM
Why is the punishment of American companies that use undocumented laborers not the real priority? Why don't we make it easier to come in legally to work? These are people willing to work the jobs that are here.

I also don't understand how illegal immigrants bleed government benefits and take jobs a way from "hard-working Americans" at the same time. It is a sad statement about our workforce if it can lose jobs to "lazy immigrants".

Two years ago, I was working in an area where a large agricultural seed supply company operates. They had buses with port-a-potties on trailers hauling crews of workers around to the different fields to harvest by hand so that the product (seed) is not damaged by machinery. It was 95 degrees for a good stretch that year. These guys were sitting in the ditches along the roads to take their lunch breaks. I had a major realization that they were not "stealing" any job that any American would even imagine doing at this point in time. There were no Caucasians or African-Americans in these crews. I have no idea if the men were undocumented or not. I do know that they were doing some seriously hard work in seriously uncomfortable conditions. I also know that the seed company would have to make some drastic changes in order to hire Americans to perform the same functions. These weren't guys coming in to live off of the government dole... they were here to work. I am sure that their wages were a better deal for the company than it was for them.

If the same President can brag about the lowest unemployment rates in 50 years, but claim that illegal immigrants are have wrecked the whole labor market, something doesn't really add up. There are clearly some businesses that benefit from undocumented labor. Usually for Republicans, that is enough to make it okay. It probably wouldn't be such a problem if all of the immigrants were from Norway, right?

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 11:34 AM
quote:
I also don't understand how illegal immigrants bleed government benefits and take jobs a way from "hard-working Americans" at the same time. It is a sad statement about our workforce if it can lose jobs to "lazy immigrants".


How easily people seem to forget about Americans in unions who have worked hard, followed the rules and paid their dues. Plumbers, Carpenters, Landscapers, Roofers & Contractors, all of whom have their work stolen and prices undercut by people who have not only entered Illegally, but are working w/o licensing. It's not always about "Hard working" people who "only" do jobs Americans will not....

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 11:56 AM
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How easily people seem to forget about Americans in unions who have worked hard, followed the rules and paid their dues. Plumbers, Carpenters, Landscapers, Roofers & Contractors, all of whom have their work stolen and prices undercut by people who have not only entered Illegally, but are working w/o licensing. It's not always about "Hard working" people who "only" do jobs Americans will not....


Wait, wait, since when do Libertarians support unions over the free market? And I don't think adhill58 was referring to illegal immigrant contractors or roofers (you roll the dice with a non-licensed contractor to work on your house, you get what you deserve), he's referring to tomato pickers at the bottom of the work force. My brother works construction, sometimes union sometimes not, and he's not losing jobs to illegal immigrants.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 12:01 PM
quote:
quote:
How easily people seem to forget about Americans in unions who have worked hard, followed the rules and paid their dues. Plumbers, Carpenters, Landscapers, Roofers & Contractors, all of whom have their work stolen and prices undercut by people who have not only entered Illegally, but are working w/o licensing. It's not always about "Hard working" people who "only" do jobs Americans will not....


Wait, wait, since when do Libertarians support unions over the free market? And I don't think adhill58 was referring to illegal immigrant contractors or roofers (you roll the dice with a non-licensed contractor to work on your house, you get what you deserve), he's referring to tomato pickers at the bottom of the work force. My brother works construction, sometimes union sometimes not, and he's not losing jobs to illegal immigrants.


I lived in San Diego for 30+ years and now reside in AZ ( where this is rampant). What state does your Brother live in? My opinion is, if you do not live near the U.S./ Mexico border, you have no idea.

And it is not literally all about Unions, it's about U.S. citizens losing work, some of whom who just happen to be in unions.

 

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