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Author: Subject: Now we can impeach him - How long will it take

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/15/2020 at 04:41 PM
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Without removal from office, impeachment becomes little more than a very expensive (to taxpayers) slap on the wrist.


It's already been expensive. What's bad is what could have been done for the voters if they hadn't spent so much time over the past three years trying to find something to impeach Trump with.
The same thing happen pretty much when Clinton was impeached. Lot of money, and time spent for nothing.


I'm going to have to differ here. The impeachment of *Donald J Trump has significance because when he leaves office and the state of NY will indicts him he won't be able to be pardoned for those crimes as he's already Individual1 with his co-conspirator, Michael Cohen, who sits in jail. Those aren't the only crimes he's going to face in the future and his impeachment means no pardon for state crimes. So any state that is now investigating him and finds charges they wish to bring. He will have to stand trial and if convicted again, can't be pardoned. And Nancy Pelosi knew that so removal would be great because that lessens the time we have to wait for him to go to jail. But either way he's cooked and he's knows it

 

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  posted on 1/15/2020 at 04:51 PM
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Jerry with all due respect Clinton is an impeached president that didn't get removed as was Johnson. The trial isn't about if, it's about removal or not.
Goldtop, you are correct in that. Wikipedia, about the Articles of Impeachment. "Upon passage, the defendant has been "impeached." Sometimes it pays to check more than two reference points.


THIS is the stuff of basic civics. The country and people on this forum have discussed impeachment for months and people are STILL looking to Wiki (which can be edited by almost anyone who wants to screw w/it) as a "second source" for the meaning of the word impeachment.

I have been polite and respectful and impersonal. I even started another thread to get out of the morass of the Civil War, but it is astounding to me that there is such a fundamental lack of knowledge of what impeachment is much less what it means. Impeachment is a constitutional process (& yes, I'm fully aware that I keep banging on about the constitution, but it's WHY impeachment is important.)

Impeachment is the same as an indictment. It's a charge. It sticks. Johnson was impeached. Clinton was impeached. Trump was impeached. Nixon was about to be impeached when he decided to resign rather than have that permanent asterisk by his name. Now, there will be a trial in the Senate to determine whether Trump should be removed from office. Johnson wasn't removed. Clinton wasn't removed. There is speculation that Trump won't be removed, but it is just that - speculation - until there is a vote.

It's especially staggering that most of us lived through Clinton's impeachment trial and can't seem to remember anything about it, including the meaning of impeachment or the fact that there were witnesses.

I suggest people read any one of the zillion sites that has basic "Impeachment 101" - even foreign news sites have one to inform their citizens of what's going on in the US. - if you want to have any credibility at all. Of course, this is a music site & the WP isn't known for its credibility.

 

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  posted on 1/15/2020 at 08:33 PM
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Jerry with all due respect Clinton is an impeached president that didn't get removed as was Johnson. The trial isn't about if, it's about removal or not.
Goldtop, you are correct in that. Wikipedia, about the Articles of Impeachment. "Upon passage, the defendant has been "impeached." Sometimes it pays to check more than two reference points.


THIS is the stuff of basic civics. The country and people on this forum have discussed impeachment for months and people are STILL looking to Wiki (which can be edited by almost anyone who wants to screw w/it) as a "second source" for the meaning of the word impeachment.


Cyclone88, I said "sometimes it pays to check more than two reference points." Wiki was not the third, or fourth. It had the shortest line I could find to quote that put the message across. You do notice that I didn't say "according to wiki"?

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/16/2020 at 09:53 PM


So now Nancy is demanding the Senate is tasked with cleaning up her shoddy mess? Since when can Nancy have the gall to call out the Senate when under her process she has not put together a compelling case?

Congrats to the elected democrats for your one and only big accomplishment- Impeachment

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/16/2020 at 11:06 PM
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So now Nancy is demanding the Senate is tasked with cleaning up her shoddy mess? Since when can Nancy have the gall to call out the Senate when under her process she has not put together a compelling case?

Congrats to the elected democrats for your one and only big accomplishment- Impeachment




In every impeachment of either judges or presidents the senate has in every single impeachment trial had witnesses and documents. Why is this different?

So exactly what is it you can't come to terms with? The fact that he's a conman and you didn't care or the fact that now that he's been impeached he will be indicted once he's out of office and can't be pardoned for the current state crimes he's committed and the one's I'm sure they have under lock and seal just waiting for him to leave the WH.

Ton's of extra evidence and the GOA's assessment that he in fact did commit a crime when he held back aid to Ukraine. Lot's more evidence to come and if there's a trial it should be heard. If's he's innocent it'll come out.

 

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  posted on 1/20/2020 at 08:26 PM
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quote:


So now Nancy is demanding the Senate is tasked with cleaning up her shoddy mess? Since when can Nancy have the gall to call out the Senate when under her process she has not put together a compelling case?

Congrats to the elected democrats for your one and only big accomplishment- Impeachment




In every impeachment of either judges or presidents the senate has in every single impeachment trial had witnesses and documents. Why is this different?
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

I don't see why it should. Myself, I'd like to see them call the Bidens to testify under oath, along with others.
___________________________________________________________________________ ____________

Ton's of extra evidence and the GOA's assessment that he in fact did commit a crime when he held back aid to Ukraine. Lot's more evidence to come and if there's a trial it should be heard. If's he's innocent it'll come out.


___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

Doesn't he still fall under the presumption of innocence, and the testimony has to prove the crimes, not that he has to prove his innocence?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/20/2020 at 10:14 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:


So now Nancy is demanding the Senate is tasked with cleaning up her shoddy mess? Since when can Nancy have the gall to call out the Senate when under her process she has not put together a compelling case?

Congrats to the elected democrats for your one and only big accomplishment- Impeachment




In every impeachment of either judges or presidents the senate has in every single impeachment trial had witnesses and documents. Why is this different?
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

I don't see why it should. Myself, I'd like to see them call the Bidens to testify under oath, along with others.
___________________________________________________________________________ ____________

Ton's of extra evidence and the GOA's assessment that he in fact did commit a crime when he held back aid to Ukraine. Lot's more evidence to come and if there's a trial it should be heard. If's he's innocent it'll come out.


___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

Doesn't he still fall under the presumption of innocence, and the testimony has to prove the crimes, not that he has to prove his innocence?




Kind of hard to prove anything when they won't allow for witnesses. Why not conduct a real honest to goodness trial that the history books will consider ligit. The only reason I can think of is because it will further make Trump look bad and make it harder for Republican senators to vote for acquittal.

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/21/2020 at 10:31 AM
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Doesn't he still fall under the presumption of innocence, and the testimony has to prove the crimes, not that he has to prove his innocence?

Jerry, I posted the full texts of both the prosecution and defense cases on the other impeachment thread. I know you like to read the original source & not rely on some filtered/subjective version. They seem long, but you can skip the Appendix in both docs & still get the gist. Also, unless McConnell's Organizational Rules change, the arguments are 12 hrs long from 1 pm to 1 am for 4 days. I'd rather read than listen to that.

This isn't a case of guilt or innocence. This is a case where the Senate has to decide if the wrongdoings presented by the HR are supported by evidence & if so, rise to the level of being removed from office.

IMO, the prosecution case is well laid out in terms of historical intentions of the Founders, actions undertaken by the president, and the concept that asking for help from a foreign government to improve personal political prospects is exactly what the Founders had in mind when they included impeachment in the constitution. The defense case is that although he did do what's charged it doesn't mean he should be removed from office. They're not defending his actions as much as arguing the purpose of impeachment.

One thing is clear. The Founders didn't include a mechanism for over-turning the electoral vote (except in court as w/GWB & Gore). They specifically said impeachment is the mechanism by which a DULY-ELECTED president can be removed from office if his acts warrant it as determined by the Senate. The prosecution completely accepts the results of the 2016 election.

 

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  posted on 1/21/2020 at 10:36 AM
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Doesn't he still fall under the presumption of innocence, and the testimony has to prove the crimes, not that he has to prove his innocence?

Jerry, I posted the full texts of both the prosecution and defense cases on the other impeachment thread. I know you like to read the original source & not rely on some filtered/subjective version. They seem long, but you can skip the Appendix in both docs & still get the gist. Also, unless McConnell's Organizational Rules change, the arguments are 12 hrs long from 1 pm to 1 am for 4 days. I'd rather read than listen to that.

This isn't a case of guilt or innocence. This is a case where the Senate has to decide if the wrongdoings presented by the HR are supported by evidence & if so, rise to the level of being removed from office.

IMO, the prosecution case is well laid out in terms of historical intentions of the Founders, actions undertaken by the president, and the concept that asking for help from a foreign government to improve personal political prospects is exactly what the Founders had in mind when they included impeachment in the constitution. The defense case is that although he did do what's charged it doesn't mean he should be removed from office. They're not defending his actions as much as arguing the purpose of impeachment.

One thing is clear. The Founders didn't include a mechanism for over-turning the electoral vote (except in court as w/GWB & Gore). They specifically said impeachment is the mechanism by which a DULY-ELECTED president can be removed from office if his acts warrant it as determined by the Senate. The prosecution completely accepts the results of the 2016 election.


You can lead him down the road all you want. He and many others can't come to terms that *tRump is a conman and that they didn't care when they voted for him so all is just great now that he does nothing but be a conman

 

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  posted on 1/21/2020 at 11:11 AM
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Congrats to the elected democrats for your one and only big accomplishment- Impeachment


x2. Showed some spirit for sure. I didn't think those wishy washy gutless bureaucrats had it it in them to pull off such a historic achievement.



 

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  posted on 1/21/2020 at 11:14 AM

You can lead him down the road all you want. He and many others can't come to terms that *tRump is a conman and that they didn't care when they voted for him so all is just great now that he does nothing but be a conman


He's asked for info in the past & based on the questions he asks, he does read it. I'm not preaching. I'm providing info. He's entitled to his opinion.

Agreed. Trump has been a conman his entire adult life & voters knew it. Now, he's a guy who has asked for foreign interference in 2 elections - multiple times. From Russia, Ukraine, & China that we know of. That sounds more like a traitor than a conman to me, but that's off the table.


 

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  posted on 1/21/2020 at 11:58 AM
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You can lead him down the road all you want. He and many others can't come to terms that *tRump is a conman and that they didn't care when they voted for him so all is just great now that he does nothing but be a conman


He's asked for info in the past & based on the questions he asks, he does read it. I'm not preaching. I'm providing info. He's entitled to his opinion.

Agreed. Trump has been a conman his entire adult life & voters knew it. Now, he's a guy who has asked for foreign interference in 2 elections - multiple times. From Russia, Ukraine, & China that we know of. That sounds more like a traitor than a conman to me, but that's off the table.




Yes traitor works very well for me...What amazes me most is the fact *tRump would phuck any of them sideways and backwards to get what he wants and not give it a second thought....yet they stand there and support the con against themselves with pride to be that ignorant and wave the flag that they are proud of being ignorant...remember they "Like the way he talks"...yep like the drunk at the end of the bar screaming madness at the TV while all his friends say "You tell em Donny"..."yeah Donny for prez"...woo hoo....what a bunch of maroons...

 

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  posted on 1/21/2020 at 02:16 PM
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Yes traitor works very well for me...What amazes me most is the fact *tRump would phuck any of them sideways and backwards to get what he wants and not give it a second thought....yet they stand there and support the con against themselves with pride to be that ignorant and wave the flag that they are proud of being ignorant


Which is why I, who am NOT a conspiracy theorist in the least, don't understand why even the ones who are in Congress, don't say "this guy is a traitor & a lunatic." Not one. Occasionally, Susan Collins of Maine will make a disgruntled noise. Otherwise, they act like he's the Messiah or more appropriately, the Mafia Don.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/21/2020 at 07:23 PM
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Yes traitor works very well for me...What amazes me most is the fact *tRump would phuck any of them sideways and backwards to get what he wants and not give it a second thought....yet they stand there and support the con against themselves with pride to be that ignorant and wave the flag that they are proud of being ignorant


Which is why I, who am NOT a conspiracy theorist in the least, don't understand why even the ones who are in Congress, don't say "this guy is a traitor & a lunatic." Not one. Occasionally, Susan Collins of Maine will make a disgruntled noise. Otherwise, they act like he's the Messiah or more appropriately, the Mafia Don.


Collins makes noise but in the end votes party line for the most part. See her Judge Cav statements and her vote. I expect little difference here. In the end she probably lines up behind Trump. The people in Maine need to vote her out. She is really not a moderate - only pretends to be. See if she follows through on votes for 1) witnesses and 2) impeachment.

 

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  posted on 1/22/2020 at 07:48 PM
The trial has not started yet so no ones mind is made up yet on how to vote. Once you strip away all the democrats puffery, and get down to laying out the evidence worthy to vote on. Call witnesses and include cross-examining the whisssle blower.

 

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  posted on 1/22/2020 at 08:01 PM
Republicans are correct that witnesses aren't needed. what for? we have video of Trump asking for foreign interference multiple times. we know that the right is ok with it. there's no need for documents and witnesses. if the right says they are cool with this, fine, but they had better shut the F up when Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and VP Omar start making calls overseas to go and git McConnell and Graham. Imagine AOC bribing Venezuela to investigate Graham - Graham goes to prison on bogus charges, and the right has to watch AOC and Omar laugh about it on TV and on Twitter everyday. if this happens, the blame would be 100% on the entire right for betraying their country and their God.
 

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  posted on 1/23/2020 at 04:42 PM

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/23/2020 at 05:48 PM
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They should send him to one of those "Summer camps" on the southern border and give him a tinfoil blanket to go with his tinfoil hat

I'd love if we shipped him off to the Hague to stand trial for world crimes against humanity and mass child abuse, along with his entire administration

 

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  posted on 1/23/2020 at 06:24 PM
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Yes traitor works very well for me...What amazes me most is the fact *tRump would phuck any of them sideways and backwards to get what he wants and not give it a second thought....yet they stand there and support the con against themselves with pride to be that ignorant and wave the flag that they are proud of being ignorant


Which is why I, who am NOT a conspiracy theorist in the least, don't understand why even the ones who are in Congress, don't say "this guy is a traitor & a lunatic." Not one. Occasionally, Susan Collins of Maine will make a disgruntled noise. Otherwise, they act like he's the Messiah or more appropriately, the Mafia Don.


I'll tell you why I think they can't say "this guy is a traitor and a lunatic"....They're simply afraid of being voted out of office by the Republican base and losing the power and privilege that comes with being a member of the Congress. In other words, it's purely for their own survival the republic be damned.

Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, Lindsey Graham, and many, many others are cowards plain and simple....

As I've said numerous times, this is exactly why Trump immediately flies off to some wacky rally immediately following any buffoonery he engages in. The rallies are meant to remind Congressional Republicans that the base, especially the red hats, are behind him no matter what stupidity and dangerous behavior he engages in. It's all saber rattling for the Republicans in Congress who know Trump is a traitor.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/23/2020 at 06:32 PM
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Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, Lindsey Graham, and many, many others are cowards plain and simple....

As I've said numerous times, this is exactly why Trump immediately flies off to some wacky rally immediately following any buffoonery he engages in. The rallies are meant to remind Congressional Republicans that the base, especially the red hats, are behind him no matter what stupidity and dangerous behavior he engages in. It's all saber rattling for the Republicans in Congress who know Trump is a traitor.


Lindsey is the worst of the bunch. Went from a Never Trumper to the guy who carries Trump's golf clubs.

The Republicans in Congress do know he's a traitor, but as they don't stand up to him that makes them all complicit traitors and a bunch of big pu$$ies. They sold their souls.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/23/2020 at 06:35 PM
Rudy Giuliani needs to be locked up, and disbarred. Horse whipped would be a nice touch.
 

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  posted on 1/23/2020 at 07:15 PM
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Rudy Giuliani needs to be locked up

I kept thinking yesterday when the detailed facts of the Ukraine scheme were presented w/the overarching theme of "if you want something from Trump, don't go through official channels, go thru Rudy" that he must've committed a crime somewhere in all those months & he most likely will end up in jail. The bad thing is that Guiliani was once the best US attorney in the SDNY - successfully prosecuting Wall St. & mafia defendants that no one thought could be touched. He peaked. He was a great prosecutor & that's where he should've stayed. It was all downhill after that. He was a lousy mayor & now he's a blowhard's bag man.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/23/2020 at 07:37 PM
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Rudy Giuliani needs to be locked up

I kept thinking yesterday when the detailed facts of the Ukraine scheme were presented w/the overarching theme of "if you want something from Trump, don't go through official channels, go thru Rudy" that he must've committed a crime somewhere in all those months & he most likely will end up in jail. The bad thing is that Guiliani was once the best US attorney in the SDNY - successfully prosecuting Wall St. & mafia defendants that no one thought could be touched. He peaked. He was a great prosecutor & that's where he should've stayed. It was all downhill after that. He was a lousy mayor & now he's a blowhard's bag man.


I keep wondering what's their end game. Most will probably roll over and croak in the few years and the last time I looked there were no luggage racks on coffins so exactly what is it all for? Rudy's revels in being a troll...sounds like a low T problem to me...screaming and acting like an idiot is one of the signs...they just need to get on some good roids and boost their true manhood back up....LOL...sorry I just had to go there...

Look at them all, the manboob trope

 

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  posted on 1/23/2020 at 08:40 PM
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I keep wondering what's their end game


This is their end game - scattering the game board like brats - pitiful last gasps and death throes of a fading demographic.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 1/23/2020 at 10:42 PM
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I keep wondering what's their end game


to own the libs. to feel the thrill of victory, after suffering for years in the agony of defeat. the feeling of loss and losing will make a man become drastic, irrational, desperate, and dangerous. we must accept that bad immoral people have infiltrated our leadership and poisoned our people. at this point we just have to hope the good people can prevent the fall of the United States.

 
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