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Author: Subject: Now we can impeach him - How long will it take

Peach Master



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 01:03 PM
"The word BUT negates or cancels everything that goes before it. And is generally accepted as a signal that the really important part of the sentence is coming up. When you use it most people listening to you will give more attention and more weight to what you say after you say BUT."

https://nlp-now.co.uk › be-careful-with-but

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 01:17 PM
quote:
quote:


There's your challenge. Learn, or continue to be ignorant of facts.




I prefer your method. Pick and choose what facts I want to remember.
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I don't pick and chose which facts to remember. I follow history, and don't try to make history fit my beliefs.
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You don’t think anything your family passed down about their history could be legend or revised to fit the narrative that they were just protecting themselves from the evil Yankees?

Yeah, families NEVER change stories to cover up things they don’t want to be remembered.
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My family had no dog in the fight for slavery, as I've said before. No slave was ever owned by any of my family.
The Union had invaded the Confederacy, the blockades kept goods from going out, and coming in, Ft. Pulaski had been bombarded and Savannah pretty much shut down. All of that is history, not family "legend". Family members joined after that point since the Union army had worked it's way down as far as Shilo Church in Tennessee. Again, history, not family legend.
They weren't there to defend slavery. They were there to defend their homes.
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And ps. I did search a couple of the things you mentioned despite already being aware of them, I still humored you, I am well aware that there were no angels in the Civil War but none of this changes nor will you acknowledge the fact that the south seceded because they had no fail safe to preserve their economy and infrastructure should slavery be outlawed.
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

I don't believe that you did. Why did you post at 6:30 pm on 12/23/2019 the following? "Tariffs and export restrictions are tied into the slavery economy, so you gave me nothing."
They weren't tied into the slavery economy as you claim. It's all history as to what the tariffs and restrictions were put in place for. You didn't check it, and the proof was in your response.
If you had checked on when slaves were freed in the areas I mentioned, you would have found some interesting facts. The best one being the District of Columbia compensated Emancipation Act of 1862.
The government purchased 3,185 slaves from their owners. Close to $1, 000,000 was spent. The freed slaves were offered an additional $100 and passage to colonize part of Central America.
You would have known that if you had checked.
I bet you didn't even check why New York City wanted to secede from the Union and join the Confederacy, even before the Union invaded.

If you had checked, you would have found out that proposals had been made in the south for compensated emancipation, and freedom for enlistment.


So again, if the war was fought to free slaves, why did they not free the slaves in the north before invading the south? Easy question, Shouldn't take too long with a Google search.
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There’s not really any good guys, just lesser of two evils. My initial point was that I’m just tired of these groups of lazy entitled white trash like Quantrill’s Raiders showing up in towns they are not welcome in trying to stir sh** up and preserve a heritage of treason.
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In other words you want to deny them their right to free speech. You know that they have that right, even if we don't agree with what they say.
Your opinion of them notwithstanding.
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

Rather than address any of the stuff about these morons who run over innocent people or try to intimidate African American store owners in the 21st century, you give a lecture about why the Union was just as bad....160 years ago. Interesting that any time someone mentions violent crimes perpetrated to by Neo-Confederate tools people immediately go on the defensive and cite Union atrocities as if it excuses White Supremacy in today’s society.


___________________________________________________________________________ _____________
Where have I said anything about how bad the Union was? Please quote where I did.
I have tried to get you to learn facts and real history so you don't look like a fool repeating myths, lies, and deception that has been forced on you since childhood.
I thought that maybe as an adult you would like to know what really happened,
what the real history of the conflict was.
It seems you just want to remain ignorant of facts.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 01:31 PM
quote:
"I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.


The Lincoln quote is just old Abe playing singlehanded tennis against multiple opponents. The man was the greatest master of rhetoric since Plato. He could talk the Devil into sending him to Heaven because Heaven is actually Hell.

He is simply saying that he is not going to allow disunion. That is his motive. He ripped slavery out by the roots, so we can infer that he viewed slavery as a threat to the Union. He set up that argument so that slavery would damn itself and his personal ethics would not be part of the equation.

This quote is not any indication of Lincoln's personal views on slavery. It actually has no bearing on slavery other than how it pertains to the Union.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 01:44 PM
quote:
This quote is not any indication of Lincoln's personal views on slavery. It actually has no bearing on slavery other than how it pertains to the Union.


Agreed. The Lincoln quote shows a leader doing whatever is necessary to protect the vision of the Founding Fathers, and went against a popular opinion to do so. Sounds to me like he doesn't really have an opinion one way or another on slavery, and was willing to toss it in the garbage pretty quickly and easily when he saw how divisive it was, which goes to show us how much he valued it to begin with.

Maybe a better preface to the quote would have been, "Slavery was an abomination, period. And here's evidence of how divisive and destructive it was."

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 01:58 PM
As a reminder *Donald J Trump was impeached 12/19/2019



How's about you guys make a civil war thread and go have the next Gettysburg there

Let's get back to the topic at hand....

*Donald J Trump will always have an asterisk next to his name because he was impeached on 12/19/2019

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 02:25 PM
quote:
How's about you guys make a civil war thread and go have the next Gettysburg there


This thread would be a tiny fraction of its length if it had not veered wildly off topic multiple times - why single out the civil war digression?

Anyway we were working our way back around to impeachment, until you tried to rush the process.



[Edited on 1/2/2020 by BrerRabbit]

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 03:12 PM
quote:
quote:
How's about you guys make a civil war thread and go have the next Gettysburg there


This thread would be a tiny fraction of its length if it had not veered wildly off topic multiple times - why single out the civil war digression?




It's just time to get back to the topic...I let it go way too long and now it has no relevance to what the topic was suppose to be about. If the thread dies so be it...he's been impeached lets talk about the trial and witnesses.

I'm all good with people creating a civil war thread and talking about that. Let's talk impeachment here

*Donald J Trump impeached as of 12/19/2019 There will always be an asterisk next to his name

[Edited on 1/2/2020 by goldtop]

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 03:15 PM
ok, here is a tie in - what's up with the hints at civil war if president booted?
 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 03:21 PM
quote:
ok, here is a tie in - what's up with the hints at civil war if president booted?


Does anyone here really think people are going to leave their jobs, take their kids out of school...form militias to go fight each other over *Donald J Trump

Will there be a few wack-a-do's that will try something sure...they already have. isn't there a guy siting in jail for sending bombs to people like Obama and HC???

Who here is going to reneg on their house payment to go fight for *Donald J Trump and exactly where will this big battle be on the highway during rush hour traffic....it's different world we live in...get real about what peoples lives are like.

Who here is going to join a militia and quit their job???

I want witnesses...all the *Prez mens

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 04:24 PM
quote:
quote:
Why did the Confederacy secede?


Slavery was the trigger issue, but the Civil War had been brewing since the Revolution. The Civil War was pretty much the USA testing the Union - filling in the blanks of the Constitution and figuring out the hard way that the idea of secession was officially and forever crushed. Sort of like a married couple that fights and destroys the house but stays together after. Anti-federalism was a huge factor in the original debates on the Constitution. - "Disunion" was the main political worry of the early US. Other states, even Northern states had argued for secession long before the Civil Wsr. The Southern Confederacy was the first attempt to actually secede. Talk of secession in the South had been going on since the early 1800s.

A lot of people killed, all Americans, so let''s not go feeling all bitter about one side or other, in the 21st century.


Thank you for answering the question because Jerry sure wasn't going to

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 04:58 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Why did the Confederacy secede?


Slavery was the trigger issue, but the Civil War had been brewing since the Revolution. The Civil War was pretty much the USA testing the Union - filling in the blanks of the Constitution and figuring out the hard way that the idea of secession was officially and forever crushed. Sort of like a married couple that fights and destroys the house but stays together after. Anti-federalism was a huge factor in the original debates on the Constitution. - "Disunion" was the main political worry of the early US. Other states, even Northern states had argued for secession long before the Civil Wsr. The Southern Confederacy was the first attempt to actually secede. Talk of secession in the South had been going on since the early 1800s.

A lot of people killed, all Americans, so let''s not go feeling all bitter about one side or other, in the 21st century.


Also, I assume the "unjust cause" mentioned in the other post refers to treason and armed rebellion against the United States in order to preserve the practice of buying, selling, and raping human beings in order to profit off of the forced labor of them and their offspring. This too seems like it shouldn't need an explainer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------

I was not trying to say that slavery is the only or even the worst problem in our past, just agreeing that it seems pretty lame to celebrate the men who died fighting to preserve it.


If the War of 1861 to 1865 was to free slaves, why didn't the Union Army go in and free all the slaves held in Union States, including Washington, DC, before invading the Confederacy?
It's a simple question, no need to worry it to death.
Just why did the Union Army invade the Confederacy to free slaves when there were slaves in Union States?


I never said the war was to free the slaves anywhere, that was the route you took. I simply asked why the south seceded. Literally everything you said was about what the Union did and didn't do while giving me nothing other than economic factors that hurt an economy that needed the Trans Atlantic slave trade to flourish. In short, you have dodged everything I've put out there, why should I humor you and answer your question when you keep intentionally dodging the issue of Neo Confederates in 2019? I don't don't really have any reason to think you are a racist or a member of a hate group like Quantrill's raiders but you apparently feel the need to justify their behaivor which seems odd. You can cite all the history you want but it is now 2020 and when it comes to Confederate monuments you are on the same side as the White Supremacists so I'm done talking Civil War here with you. Feel free to start another thread on the subject and you can continue to educate me while dodging the questions you don't like.

As for this turning into the Gettysburg of the whipping post, all I did was mention Neo Confederate dbags in 2019, sorry I should have known the resident snowflakes wouldn't have taken kindly to white bashing.




 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 05:32 PM
I'm all good with the direction the thread took it's just time to put it back on track and civil war thread might be a good topic...but I'm with you they don't have any statues of Hitler in Germany or statues of Mussolini in Italy

They fought against the US and they wanted to preserve the right to use humans as livestock EOS...How can you condone that??? The Union gave up their slaves and they didn't fight to preserve the right to use people as livestock.

Oh and by the way *Donald J Trump was impeached on 12/19/2019 and will forever have a asterisk next to his name

So who's for seeing witnesses in the Senate trial. I think the entire WH should testify

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 05:42 PM
quote:
I'm all good with the direction the thread took it's just time to put it back on track and civil war thread might be a good topic...but I'm with you they don't have any statues of Hitler in Germany or statues of Mussolini in Italy

They fought against the US and they wanted to preserve the right to use humans as livestock EOS...How can you condone that??? The Union gave up their slaves and they didn't fight to preserve the right to use people as livestock.
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Nope, they didn't. Four states and DC held slaves mostly until the 13th Amendment.
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Oh and by the way *Donald J Trump was impeached on 12/19/2019 and will forever have a asterisk next to his name
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________
Nope, only thing that has happened so far is the House voted on Articles of Impeachment. The trial to Impeach can't be held until the Articles have been presented to the Senate.
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So who's for seeing witnesses in the Senate trial. I think the entire WH should testify


I am, but some might not want to see the list of possible witnesses the Senate can call up to testify under oath.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 05:53 PM
quote:
So who's for seeing witnesses in the Senate trial


Why is this even a question? Legal trials have witnesses, or what? maybe our legal eagle cyclone could help me out here. Just looks off to me, we are down to for or against witnesses when here I thought it was a right - just a given part of the process.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 06:02 PM
quote:
quote:
So who's for seeing witnesses in the Senate trial


Why is this even a question? Legal trials have witnesses, or what? maybe our legal eagle cyclone could help me out here. Just looks off to me, we are down to for or against witnesses when here I thought it was a right - just a given part of the process.


I'm asking because Moscow Mitch doesn't want any

Jerry with all due respect Clinton is an impeached president that didn't get removed as was Johnson. The trial isn't about if, it's about removal or not. So stop the BS *Donald J Trump was impeached on 12/19/2019 and will forever be one of the 3 impeached prez no matter how hard you wish it not to be true, it is.

[Edited on 1/2/2020 by goldtop]

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 06:08 PM
quote:
I'm asking because Moscow Mitch doesn't want any


I get that, my question was rhetorical - point being how can McConnell legally refuse witness testimony?

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 06:18 PM
quote:
quote:
I'm asking because Moscow Mitch doesn't want any


I get that, my question was rhetorical - point being how can McConnell legally refuse witness testimony?


Seems norms aren't the norm anymore. I don't know what he's trying to pull I just know he gets away with all sorts of crap. Holding up close to 300 bi-partisan bills.

What do they all think the end game is? *Donald J Trump is Indiviual1 co-conspirator with his attorney that is sitting in jail...he's gonna be indicted when he leaves office. And why would anyone else go down with him while standing there and watching him throw anyone under the bus he wants. Any one of those GOP senators could be Brutus and end the madness if they actually gave a crap

[Edited on 1/2/2020 by goldtop]

[Edited on 1/2/2020 by goldtop]

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 08:40 PM
Why witnesses? It would just be another spectacle and not really helpful for the country. Mitch is in favor of following the Clinton impeachment model. If I recall, no witnesses were ever called to impeach Bill Clinton and history says he was afforded a fair process but screwed himself by lying.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2020 at 09:33 PM
quote:
As a reminder *Donald J Trump was impeached 12/19/2019


Do us a favor and "remind" of us of just exactly what this means.

Please

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/15/2020 at 11:12 AM
The impeachment managers

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2020 at 12:22 PM
quote:
[

Jerry with all due respect Clinton is an impeached president that didn't get removed as was Johnson. The trial isn't about if, it's about removal or not.

[Edited on 1/2/2020 by goldtop]


Goldtop, you are correct in that. Wikipedia, about the Articles of Impeachment. "Upon passage, the defendant has been "impeached."
Sometimes it pays to check more than two reference points.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/15/2020 at 12:43 PM
quote:
quote:
[

Jerry with all due respect Clinton is an impeached president that didn't get removed as was Johnson. The trial isn't about if, it's about removal or not.

[Edited on 1/2/2020 by goldtop]


Goldtop, you are correct in that. Wikipedia, about the Articles of Impeachment. "Upon passage, the defendant has been "impeached."
Sometimes it pays to check more than two reference points.


Thanks Jerry

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2020 at 01:31 PM
Without removal from office, impeachment becomes little more than a very expensive (to taxpayers) slap on the wrist.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2020 at 01:45 PM
quote:
Without removal from office, impeachment becomes little more than a very expensive (to taxpayers) slap on the wrist.


It's already been expensive. What's bad is what could have been done for the voters if they hadn't spent so much time over the past three years trying to find something to impeach Trump with.
The same thing happen pretty much when Clinton was impeached. Lot of money, and time spent for nothing.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/15/2020 at 03:33 PM
quote:
Why witnesses? It would just be another spectacle and not really helpful for the country. Mitch is in favor of following the Clinton impeachment model. If I recall, no witnesses were ever called to impeach Bill Clinton and history says he was afforded a fair process but screwed himself by lying.




Witnesses were called in both the Clinton and Johnson impeachment trials. Without witnesses, it will go down as a sham trial in the history books.

 
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