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Author: Subject: Immigration Reform

Zen Peach





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  posted on 7/10/2014 at 06:06 PM
Why can't the Republican delegation come up with a plan that Obama can sign related to Immigration Reform? Obama recently met with Texas Governor Rick Perry to try to get his point of view on what he thinks is needed, and still people just keep blaming Obama for not solving the problem.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/10/2014 at 06:15 PM
I watched Obama's speech on C Span, he took some questions, then there was another meeting after that with people like Ted Cruz, John McCain giving their points of view, with some very interesting ideas.

One of Obama's ideas was why should we keep spending so much money to try to hunt down those who have already been living here, and working and making some sort of life for themselves, when that money if appropriated elsewhere could do something about the border problem. That money alone could fund 20,000 new border patrol agents, who could be deployed next week.

One of the more interesting things that came out, came from Senator John McCain. He said that groups use the immigration problem to smuggle people in here, then their relatives come in, and he knows some of them come here to commit acts of terrorism. He then said they (the intelligence community) know that the head of ISIS in Iraq was in a masjid in Syria and told the worshippers "you will see us in New York".

Ted Cruz was concerned about children being exploited by groups and gangs, and if we just send them back to their native countries, it will continue. People in California recently refused to allow busses of immigrants to come into their town, they just refused, the busses had to go someplace else. One of the disclosures in the Congressional meeting was that families pay $5,000-12,000 dollars to help get their children smuggled into the US. They hope they will get citizenship, then perhaps they can join them later.

Some of the delegation felt we need to work on the problems in the countries of those coming here, others said, just do what other countries do, put them on a bus and send them back. Still others say but they must have jurisprudence, be seen by a judge and then sent back.

What should be done to solve this problem? Maybe we should just build housing in other countries and create safe havens for them there. We do not have the $$$ to provide housing, medical benefits for them here, but we want to be humanitarians. Build four story apartment bldgs. there in communities, teach them how to protect themselves, talk to some of the charity groups that do it on smaller scales in these countries.


[Edited on 7/10/2014 by gina]

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/10/2014 at 10:10 PM
Well for starters we need more willingness to compromise and less polarization and demonization between the parties in Washington. And without that it is hard to see a good plan emerging. So really I'm sure they can't get anything accomplished.

Just like about every major issue, it is wildly complicated. Trying to simplify it; I have always believed that I could go along with the 'path to citizenship" plan for those already here without criminal records only if the flow into this country is absolutely and immediately stopped, be that cold hearted or cold blooded if necessary. Woman, children, any person caught entering illegally would be forced to turn around and return the way they came. No deporation hearing, no temporary housing, no food, no medicine, no water - just if caught an immediate trip back to the border with orders to walk south. There should be no expectation that America will provide any of those things to people who have not gone through the proper proceedure to gain legal access to our country. What obligation do we have to clothe, house and feed these people? If we make our country appear as the destination they are seeking then why would it ever stop? If word got around that America was not a safe haven for illegals and instead those coming were dealt with harshly I would have to believe the desire of many to want to come would be reduced.

Central America and Mexico might be **** holes, but we have our own problems here to worry about and we can't prop up and seek to improve the lives of those around the world when we have so many of our own in need.

[Edited on 7/11/2014 by nebish]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/9/2014 at 01:07 PM
I agree with just send them back within a week after they get here. Give them a box lunch, some water, fruit juice, a blanket if they are cold, and send them on a bus or a van back to their country.

As a nation we are hypocritical saying we have to be humanitarian to some people yet others are ripe for targeted assassination without anything even having been proven. Nevermind the so called strikes on terrorists, all the people in Iraq right now are not with Isis or Al Qaida, some of them just happen to live there and are fighting all insurgency on their home soil, yet they are subjected to be killed by our drones. That is not humanitarian. Killing some but not others is a political game.

This whole debate with Congress we must be humanitarian to people coming thru our borders but not to anyone on the other side of the ocean means we are not humanitarians, we just need things from the countries south of our borders so we want to maintain relations with them and if we sent drones to the Mexican border, the world view would be very bad for us.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/9/2014 at 01:13 PM
quote:
Well for starters we need more willingness to compromise and less polarization and demonization between the parties in Washington. And without that it is hard to see a good plan emerging. So really I'm sure they can't get anything accomplished.


What is Mexico's role here?

quote:
Just like about every major issue, it is wildly complicated. Trying to simplify it; I have always believed that I could go along with the 'path to citizenship" plan for those already here without criminal records only if the flow into this country is absolutely and immediately stopped, be that cold hearted or cold blooded if necessary. Woman, children, any person caught entering illegally would be forced to turn around and return the way they came. No deporation hearing, no temporary housing, no food, no medicine, no water - just if caught an immediate trip back to the border with orders to walk south. There should be no expectation that America will provide any of those things to people who have not gone through the proper proceedure to gain legal access to our country. What obligation do we have to clothe, house and feed these people? If we make our country appear as the destination they are seeking then why would it ever stop? If word got around that America was not a safe haven for illegals and instead those coming were dealt with harshly I would have to believe the desire of many to want to come would be reduced.


Agree with it all except for the "Path to citizenship". We have that now, it's called "Legal Immigration"

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 8/9/2014 at 07:58 PM
why not take a simple approach and enforce the laws already on the books? that would probably be a good start. why pass legislation when this administration has a difficult time EXECUTING existing law? this is all politics in an election year.
 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/9/2014 at 08:45 PM
quote:
why not take a simple approach and enforce the laws already on the books? that would probably be a good start. why pass legislation when this administration has a difficult time EXECUTING existing law? this is all politics in an election year.
This administration IS following the law. the william wilberforce trafficking law [signed by dumbya bush in 2008] says that children from non bordering countries shall be held [not deported] in a humane fashion until the court can assign them to a suitable relative. what don't you get about this???. Obama is trying to get the law changed. republicans will not budge. and YOU blame obama for not doing anything.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/11/2014 at 05:11 PM
quote:
quote:
why not take a simple approach and enforce the laws already on the books? that would probably be a good start. why pass legislation when this administration has a difficult time EXECUTING existing law? this is all politics in an election year.
This administration IS following the law. the william wilberforce trafficking law [signed by dumbya bush in 2008] says that children from non bordering countries shall be held [not deported] in a humane fashion until the court can assign them to a suitable relative. what don't you get about this???. Obama is trying to get the law changed. republicans will not budge. and YOU blame obama for not doing anything.


First, read the legislation. It was written to combat human trafficking in the sex trade and forced labor. Those are listed as "extreme trafficking".

Second, I can't find anything in there that gives a determination to place large numbers of children in cities. They are either placed within a secure facility, or placed as stated in Section 235, subsection c , Paragraph 3, Sub-Paragraph A. There is no differentiation as to if the country is bordering the US or not. Section 235, subsection b is the only differentiation of if the country borders the US or not.

Again, are these children being forced across the border for the sex trade or forced labor? If not, then that law doesn't apply to them.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/11/2014 at 05:21 PM
quote:
Why can't the Republican delegation come up with a plan that Obama can sign related to Immigration Reform? Obama recently met with Texas Governor Rick Perry to try to get his point of view on what he thinks is needed, and still people just keep blaming Obama for not solving the problem.


Why can't Obama sign the Immigration Reform Bills that have been presented to him such as the SAFE Act HR 2278? I'm glad that Senate Bill 744 never came up.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/11/2014 at 06:20 PM
This explains the unintended consequences of WWTL http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/15/politics/immigration-unintended-consequences/

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 8/12/2014 at 07:23 AM
quote:
quote:
why not take a simple approach and enforce the laws already on the books? that would probably be a good start. why pass legislation when this administration has a difficult time EXECUTING existing law? this is all politics in an election year.
This administration IS following the law. the william wilberforce trafficking law [signed by dumbya bush in 2008] says that children from non bordering countries shall be held [not deported] in a humane fashion until the court can assign them to a suitable relative. what don't you get about this???. Obama is trying to get the law changed. republicans will not budge. and YOU blame obama for not doing anything.


Obama is hiding behind the law when it suits him as in this case. He has no problem breaking the law or practicing selective enforcement when it suits his agenda. How many times has the Obamacare law been postponned or revised since he signed it?

Also, one of the main points about immigration reform put forth by republicans is to secure the border .

They are smart enough to realize if you continue to have a porous border and move this group towards amenesty than more will flood over as was the case back in the '80s. No imigration proposal should be entertained with first sealing the border, either by more fencing or the national guard.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/12/2014 at 08:59 AM
So bush the heartless passed one humanitarian law which has not gone well so he's evil? As someone else mentioned there have been a gazillion delays/exceptions in the ACA.

This is not good vs evil This is two political parties and ideologies so far apart that there is no compromise; both sides are stonewalling the other. I am getting tired of the right won't let Obama perform magic arguments. Both sides think their answers are magic; both fight the other parties " magic" tooth and nail This is bipartisan political blockade.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/12/2014 at 04:49 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
why not take a simple approach and enforce the laws already on the books? that would probably be a good start. why pass legislation when this administration has a difficult time EXECUTING existing law? this is all politics in an election year.
This administration IS following the law. the william wilberforce trafficking law [signed by dumbya bush in 2008] says that children from non bordering countries shall be held [not deported] in a humane fashion until the court can assign them to a suitable relative. what don't you get about this???. Obama is trying to get the law changed. republicans will not budge. and YOU blame obama for not doing anything.


Obama is hiding behind the law when it suits him as in this case. He has no problem breaking the law or practicing selective enforcement when it suits his agenda. How many times has the Obamacare law been postponned or revised since he signed it?

Also, one of the main points about immigration reform put forth by republicans is to secure the border .

They are smart enough to realize if you continue to have a porous border and move this group towards amenesty than more will flood over as was the case back in the '80s. No imigration proposal should be entertained with first sealing the border, either by more fencing or the national guard.
Show us an example of selective enforcement by obama in regards to the border and security. fence??, how did george dumbya's fence work out?? how much will it cost the taxpayer to have the national guard protect 1000 miles of border???

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/12/2014 at 07:53 PM
I don't understand the hysteria these days about illegal immigration. Hasn't the illegal immigration rate been at or near net zero for several years now? Just as many illegals are going home as are arriving. It's kind of like arguing over closing the barn door after all the cows have already left.

http://knowledge.allianz.com/demography/migration/?1863/mexican-net-migrati on-to-america-zero

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/12/2014 at 07:58 PM
quote:
This explains the unintended consequences of WWTL http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/15/politics/immigration-unintended-consequences/


The unintended consequences are that we are letting other countries interpret the law as they see it.
Enforce the law as it was written, to deal with those who were brought to this country under the term "extreme trafficking" as pointed out in the law, deal with the others under the normal laws for illegal immigration.

PS: That's one of the ways Obama is deciding which laws to follow.

 

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