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Author: Subject: Greenpeace Co-Founder: No Evidence of Man-Made Global Warming

Ultimate Peach





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  posted on 3/1/2014 at 09:11 AM
Here's an excerpt from http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/greenpeace-co-founder-no-evide nce-of-man-made-global-warming/ :
quote:
A Greenpeace co-founder testified in Congress on Tuesday about global warming. What he said is hardly what anyone would expect.

“There is no scientific proof that human emissions of carbon dioxide are the dominant cause of the minor warming of the Earth’s atmosphere over the past 100 years,” said Moore, who was testifying before the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee’s Subcommittee on Oversight.

“If there were such a proof, it would be written down for all to see. No actual proof, as it is understood in science, exists.”

Moore didn’t hold back in his Senate appearance. He quickly zeroed in on the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and strongly scolded it for claiming there is a “95-100% probability” that man “has been the dominant cause of” global warming. Those numbers, he said, have been invented.

He also characterized the IPCC’s reliance on computer models as futile; told senators that history “fundamentally contradicts the certainty that human-caused CO2 emissions are the main cause of global warming”; and noted that “during the Greenhouse Ages,” a period that precedes our fossil-fuel burning civilization, “there was no ice on either pole and all the land was tropical and subtropical from pole to pole.”

Moore further crossed the line of accepted climate change discourse when he insisted “that a warmer temperature than today’s would be far better than a cooler one” and reminded lawmakers “that we are not capable, with our limited knowledge, of predicting which way” temperatures “will go next.”
David Horowitz founded FrontPage Mag after becoming disillusioned with the New Left (of which he was a cofounder). Here's an excerpt from his online biography:
quote:
David Horowitz was one of the founders of the New Left in the 1960s and an editor of its largest magazine, Ramparts. He is the author, with Peter Collier, of three best selling dynastic biographies: The Rockefellers: An American Dynasty (1976); The Kennedys: An American Dream (1984); and The Fords: An American Epic (1987). Looking back in anger at their days in the New Left, he and Collier wrote Destructive Generation (1989), a chronicle of their second thoughts about the 60s that has been compared to Whittaker Chambers’ Witness and other classic works documenting a break from totalitarianism. Horowitz examined this subject more closely in Radical Son(1996), a memoir tracing his odyssey from “red-diaper baby” to conservative activist that George Gilder described as “the first great autobiography of his generation.”
The full story is at http://www.frontpagemag.com/biography .

BTW, how does the current winter square with the theory of man-made global warming?

Billastro

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/1/2014 at 10:15 AM
http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/02/27/who-is-patrick-moore-a-look-at- the-former-green/198266

Who Is Patrick Moore? A Look At The Former Greenpeace Member's Industry Ties And Climate Denial
Patrick Moore's Climate Misinformation Is Nothing New

Research February 27, 2014 6:11 PM EST ››› DENISE ROBBINS

Conservative media are latching on to the climate change denial of Patrick Moore, who has masqueraded as a co-founder of Greenpeace. But Moore has been a spokesman for nuclear power and fossil fuel-intensive industries for more than 20 years, and his denial of climate change -- without any expertise in the matter -- is nothing new.

Patrick Moore Denies Human-Caused Climate Change In Testimony

Moore Claims There Is "No Scientific Proof" That Humans Are "Dominant Cause" Of Global Warming. On February 25, Patrick Moore, who used to work at Greenpeace before becoming a communications consultant for the nuclear and fossil fuel energy industries, testified before the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee to deny that humans are the dominant cause of climate change:

There is no scientific proof that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are the dominant cause of the minor warming of the Earth's atmosphere over the past 100 years. If there were such a proof it would be written down for all to see. No actual proof, as it is understood in science, exists. [U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, 2/25/14]

Contrary To Moore, Actual Climate Scientists Have Extensive Scientific Proof Of Man's Impact. The U.S. National Academy of Sciences and the United Kingdom's Royal Society released a report on February 26, 2014, saying that "t is now more certain than ever, based on many lines of evidence, that humans are changing Earth's climate." NASA has explained some of the evidence showing that recent warming is due to an amplified greenhouse effect rather than an increase in solar output:

How do we know that changes in the sun aren't to blame for current global warming trends?

Since 1978, a series of satellite instruments have measured the energy output of the sun directly. The satellite data show a very slight drop in solar irradiance (which is a measure of the amount of energy the sun gives off) over this time period. So the sun doesn't appear to be responsible for the warming trend observed over the past 30 years.

[...]

If the warming were caused by a more active sun, then scientists would expect to see warmer temperatures in all layers of the atmosphere. Instead, they have observed a cooling in the upper atmosphere, and a warming at the surface and in the lower parts of the atmosphere. That's because greenhouse gasses are trapping heat in the lower atmosphere.
Climate models that include solar irradiance changes can't reproduce the observed temperature trend over the past century or more without including a rise in greenhouse gases. [National Academy of Sciences, 2/26/14; NASA, accessed 2/27/14]
This Is Not The First Time Moore Has Used Misleading Claims To Deny Climate Change. Moore has denied climate change since at least 2007. In May 2007, Moore cited the debunked "Oregon Petition" to dismiss the scientific consensus on climate change in an interview with Glenn Beck. But the petition gathered the signatures of more than 18,000 so-called "scientists," many of which were fake and the vast majority of which were not climate experts (the petition counts anyone with a bachelor's degree in various fields including computer science and statistics as a "scientist"). [CNN Headline News, Glenn Beck, 5/2/07, via Media Matters; Skeptical Science, 7/9/10]

Patrick Moore's Climate Denial Misleadingly Hyped By Conservative Media Pundits

Fox Business Uses Moore's Statement To Call Climate Change A "Scam." On the February 27 edition of Varney & Company, host Stuart Varney introduced Patrick Moore by exclaiming incredulously, "the co-founder of Greenpeace," going on to repeat Moore's statement that "environmentalists have been using faulty climate models and scare tactics to back up their claims." Fox's Charles Payne agreed, saying "we shouldn't base policy on this because it's more of a scam."

http://mediamatters.org/embed/clips/2014/02/27/34262/fbn-varney-20140227-mo ore

[Fox Business, Varney & Company, 2/27/14]

Fox News' Gretchen Carlson Hyped "A Stunning Admission About Climate Change." On February 27's The Real Story With Gretchen Carlson, Carlson touted "a stunning admission about climate change" from "the co-founder of Greenpeace, who says there is no scientific proof that man is contributing to climate change."

CNBC's Joe Kernen Used Moore's Talking Points To Compare Climate Science To "Witchcraft." On the February 27 edition of Squawk Box, CNBC co-host Joe Kernen read Moore's testimony as a segue into his own climate misinformation, asking, "why isn't it the warmest month every year? ... Looking at this, it's almost like witch[craft]. In the Middle Ages, you would attribute adverse weather events to witchcraft, now we just have CO2."

http://mediamatters.org/embed/clips/2014/02/27/34235/cnbc-squawkbox-moorecl imate-20140227

For more on higher carbon dioxide levels before humans existed and the natural variability in temperature records, see Skeptical Science and Carbon Brief. [Skeptical Science, 11/26/13; Carbon Brief, 1/23/14]
Fox News Uncritically Airs Moore's Claim That "There Is No Scientific Proof That Humans Cause Global Warming." Fox News' Fox & Friends First highlighted Moore's comments in a headline roundup, stating, "there is no scientific proof that humans cause global warming." In the segment, they referred to Moore as a "Greenpeace co-founder":

And Moore Received Wide Pick Up In Conservative News Sites. Moore's testimony, particularly his comments denying manmade climate change, was featured uncritically in The Washington Times, FoxNews.com, the Daily Caller, Newsmax, and the Daily Mail. In every case, Moore was characterized as a co-founder of Greenpeace. [The Washington Times, 2/26/14; FoxNews.com, 2/26/14; Daily Caller, 2/25/14; Newsmax, 2/27/14; Daily Mail, 2/27/14]

Moore, An Industry Spokesman, Is Not A "Greenpeace Co-Founder"

Patrick Moore Is Not A Co-Founder Of Greenpeace. Moore frequently portrays himself as a co-founder of Greenpeace, a title often repeated by the media. But Moore was not a co-founder, as explained by Greenpeace:

Patrick Moore frequently portrays himself as a founder or co-founder of Greenpeace, and many news outlets have repeated this characterization. Although Mr. Moore played a significant role in Greenpeace Canada for several years, he did not found Greenpeace. Phil Cotes, Irving Stowe, and Jim Bohlen founded Greenpeace in 1970. Patrick Moore applied for a berth on the Phyllis Cormack in March, 1971 after the organization had already been in existence for a year. A copy of his application letter and Greenpeace's response are available here (PDF). [Greenpeace, 12/7/10]

Greenpeace: Moore Left Greenpeace For "Financial Gain." Moore has repeatedly claimed that he left Greenpeace because their policies shifted to the radical left, saying for instance in his testimony, "I had to leave as Greenpeace took a sharp turn to the political left, and began to adopt policies that I could not accept from my scientific perspective." But Greenpeace has a different view of the situation, saying "what Moore really saw was an opportunity for financial gain. Since then he has gone from defender of the planet to a paid representative of corporate polluters." [U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, 2/25/14; Greenpeace, 10/10/08]

Moore Has Been An Industry Spokesman For Over 20 Years. Patrick Moore founded Greenspirit Strategies Ltd. in 1991, a communications strategy firm that promotes energy-intensive industries including "mining, energy, forestry, aquaculture, biotechnology, pharmaceuticals and manufacturing," and supports "environmentally sound oil extraction, like is being done in the Canadian oil sands." Moore has worked as a spokesman for many different nuclear energy companies, as reported by Media Matters:

Moore is co-chair and paid spokesman for the Clean and Safe Energy Coalition (CSEC), which describes itself as "a large grassroots coalition that united unlikely allies across the business, environmental, academic, consumer and labor community to support nuclear energy." In fact, as the Columbia Journalism Review reported, CSEC was formed by the Nuclear Energy Institute in 2006 and continues to receive most of its funding from that body. NEI is the policy organization of the nuclear energy and technology industry, and seeks to "promote the beneficial uses of nuclear energy and technologies in the United States and around the world."

As the Brattleboro Reformer reported on January 16, Moore serves as spokesman for the Vermont Energy Partnership, a nuclear industry front group that seeks to prevent the closure of the Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant. He is also an adviser for the New York Affordable Reliable Electricity Alliance, a lobby group that promotes the renewal of the operating license for the Indian Point nuclear power plants. [Greenspirit Strategies, accessed 2/27/14; Greenspirit Strategies, accessed 2/27/14; Media Matters, 5/3/07]

 

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  posted on 3/1/2014 at 10:39 AM
even jesus believes in climate change.

 

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  posted on 3/1/2014 at 01:09 PM
When did it become bad to be a smart, well educated human being who believes in science? The pillars of the community used to be looked upon as the best educated. Plato, Socrates, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Einstein... today's conservatives would have you believe these guys are bad because they are elitist.

I don't want a mouth breathing, uneducated rabble to making the decisions.

 

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  posted on 3/1/2014 at 03:18 PM


[Edited on 10/7/2014 by jerryphilbob]

 

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  posted on 3/1/2014 at 03:37 PM
"Money can buy you anything today, even a scientist views."

True. Who has more money, the oil / energy /chemical team, or the environmentalists?

I would think the oil / energy /chemical team.

Who stands to profit more, those who see restrictions implemented on emissions, or those who have the restrictions removed?

Again, probably the oil / energy /chemical team.

So, if there is anyone who has the money AND the motivation to buy scientists in this debate, and it is the oil / energy /chemical team, why the kneejerk dismissal of the other side, JPB?

 

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  posted on 3/1/2014 at 05:42 PM
quote:
"Money can buy you anything today, even a scientist views."

True. Who has more money, the oil / energy /chemical team, or the environmentalists?

I would think the oil / energy /chemical team.
That natural reaction would be wrong.

Gov't has more money, and our gov't prints whatever they need. Gov't can regulate and tax any business it wants. And nothing compares to the govt's and politician's desire for control. Especially when it comes to energy, because it's absolute need makes it the pot of gold to tax and regulate.

The buying of scientists angle doesn't hold up very well either, given that most scientists already work either a private firm or one getting public funds. The latter group has as much motivation to promote concepts gov't favors (those which will end in govt's control or expansion of power) as the former one does to favor their company. Their future existence depends on grants and funding which typically source from gov't. To think that just because they might be a professor somewhere doesn't establish in the least that they are an independent, non-influenced, or objective voice.

I understand the suspicion of big oil, but at least they do the work and provide something we all need. What exactly will the scumbag cronies like Al Gore or the power-grabbing politicians provide to you, other than higher expense for something you absolutely need. Their schemes of carbon-exchanges or higher taxes are just another invention to ride on the backs of producers and make billions off the public's need. Talk about parasites of society!

 

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  posted on 3/1/2014 at 05:57 PM
quote:
BTW, how does the current winter square with the theory of man-made global warming?


One is called weather, the other is called climate.

 

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  posted on 3/1/2014 at 09:51 PM
Why do we hear the devotees blame various occurrences in the weather on global warming/climate change?

On the other hand, when a skeptic points out some weather occurrence it "doesn't prove anything."

That's called playing both sides against the middle.






[Edited on 3/2/2014 by alloak41]

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/1/2014 at 11:52 PM
quote:
Why do we hear the devotees blame various occurrences in the weather on global warming/climate change?


Who is we? What have you got? A mouse in your pocket?

I've suspected for awhile that you are hearing voices. I didn't realize they were the voices of devotees. Are these devotees of a specific Guru? Perhaps a specific religious sect or cult?

Once you sign up for Obamacare you will be able to see a licensed doctor to get some help with those voices.

You should probably hurry.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 3/2/2014 at 06:12 AM
quote:
Why do we hear the devotees blame various occurrences in the weather on global warming/climate change?

On the other hand, when a skeptic points out some weather occurrence it "doesn't prove anything."

That's called playing both sides against the middle.


I don't know what you are talking about, but weather and climate are not the same thing. You get that, right?

 

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  posted on 3/2/2014 at 09:22 AM
quote:
quote:
Why do we hear the devotees blame various occurrences in the weather on global warming/climate change?

On the other hand, when a skeptic points out some weather occurrence it "doesn't prove anything."

That's called playing both sides against the middle.


I don't know what you are talking about, but weather and climate are not the same thing. You get that, right?


Of course climate and weather are different things. Hurricanes, downpours, droughts, and tornados are climate. Ice storms, subfreezing temperatures, and snow storms are weather.

 

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  posted on 3/2/2014 at 09:40 AM
weather and climate perspective

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/noaa-n/climate/climate_weather.html

 

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  posted on 3/2/2014 at 11:22 AM
This is an interesting stand...

quote:

Tim Cook to Climate Change Deniers: Get Out of Apple Stock

Apple CEO Tim Cook has not been known for taking a strong stand on, well, just about anything. Caution has been the watchword of Cook's three-year tenure at the top of the world's wealthiest technology company. So far his legacy is largely comprised of incremental improvements in established products, tweaks to the supply chain, and more corporate transparency.

But Cook does care about the environment — and that became very clear on Friday, when the CEO had a terse exchange with an anti-environmental lobbying group.

Apple has made vast improvements in its use of renewable energy since Cook took over from Steve Jobs. More than three-quarters of the company's facilities worldwide, including all of its data centers and its Cupertino HQ, now run on solar, wind, geothermal or hydro power, up from about a quarter under Jobs. Last year, Cook hired Lisa Jackson, former head of the EPA, to lead the company's sustainability efforts.

None of that sits well with folks who don't think climate change is a big deal — such as the National Center for Public Policy Research, a conservative think tank based in Washington, D.C. and an Apple shareholder. At the company's annual shareholder meeting, the NCPPR urged Cook and the board to pledge that Apple wouldn't pursue any more environmental initiatives that didn't improve its bottom line.

"We object to increased government control over company products and operations, and likewise mandatory environmental standards," wrote NCPPR general counsel Justin Danhof in a statement before the meeting. "This is something [Apple] should be actively fighting, not preparing surrender."

Cook's response was blistering. First of all, he insisted, environmental efforts also make economic sense. Even so, "we do a lot of things for reasons besides profit motive," the CEO said. "We want to leave the world better than we found it."

Anyone who had a problem with that? They should sell their Apple shares. "Get out of the stock," Cook suggested. Danhof's proposal was voted down by shareholders.

It's a measure of the strength of Apple's position that Cook can afford to irritate such a large and powerful shareholder on a matter of principle. But it also offers hope for environmentalists frustrated by the lack of progress on climate change that — in Apple's drought-ridden home state, at least — now seems all too real. Greenpeace recently applauded Cook for working to reduce the number of "conflict minerals" in Apple products. Now it has one more reason to cheer.

 

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  posted on 3/3/2014 at 06:33 AM
WARNING: Climate Science Imposter On The Loose On Fox News
Posted by Mark on February 28, 2014 at 6:02 pm.

Be On The Lookout: In recent days a disreputable character has been making the rounds on Fox News claiming to be a co-founder of Greenpeace while peddling PR spin straight from the ivory tower suites of the energy industry.This imposter is Patrick Moore. He was last seen on the Sean Hannity program where he continued to misrepresent his association with Greenpeace. Hannity’s introduction was typically dishonest and dripping with animus as he declared that “For years the left has been spinning their lies about global warming, all in an effort to push through their radical agenda.” And he took full advantage of Moore’s subterfuge by noting that his climate science denial was surprising “coming out of your mouth.” What is surprising is that Moore is getting away with passing himself off as a co-founder of Greenpeace and an environmentalist.

The recent sightings of Moore in the media have been exploited by conservative outlets eager to dismiss the broad agreement in the scientific community that the Earth’s climate is changing at a rapid pace, and that it is caused by human activity. In fact, 97% of the scientists in the field have affirmed this in peer reviewed publications and research.

That hasn’t stopped Moore from conducting his charade wherein he asserts that there is “zero evidence that the earth is warming because of human activity.” His persistence is understandable with the knowledge that he is a paid representative of a variety of nuclear power and energy firms. Without any credentials in the field of climatology, Moore makes broad allegations that are not supported by verified research. Then he invents a vast liberal cabal that he claims is conspiring to build some sort of holy congregation of environmental opportunists:

“It is a powerful convergence of interests among a very large number of elites including politicians who want to make it seem as though they’re saving the world, environmentalists who want to raise money and get control over very large issues like our energy policy, media for sensationalism, universities and professors for grants [...] it is a kind of nasty combination of extreme political ideology and religious cult all rolled into one.”

Contrary to his false identification as a co-founder of Greenpeace, Moore actually became affiliated with the group’s Canadian branch after it was already operating for a year. He left Greenpeace in 1991 to cash in on the lobbying fees he could collect from America’s pollution industries. And that’s what he has been doing for the last twenty-plus years. Greenpeace set the record straight about Moore a couple of years ago refuting any claim that Moore represents Greenpeace. They posted a detailed description on their website that revealed the facts of their past association and Moore’s current pro-pollution activities:

“Patrick Moore, a paid spokesman for the nuclear industry, the logging industry, and genetic engineering industry, frequently cites a long-ago affiliation with Greenpeace to gain legitimacy in the media. Media outlets often either state or imply that Mr. Moore still represents Greenpeace, or fail to mention that he is a paid lobbyist and not an independent source.”

This is just another example of how Fox News deliberately deceives their audience. With full knowledge of the false representations, and utter disregard for the truth that qualified scientists provide, Fox dispenses a litany of lies that keeps their viewers ignorant. For more information about Moore’s deceit, and the cooperation from Fox News and other rightist media organizations in proliferating his hoax, see the analysis by Media Matters.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2014 at 08:00 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Why do we hear the devotees blame various occurrences in the weather on global warming/climate change?

On the other hand, when a skeptic points out some weather occurrence it "doesn't prove anything."

That's called playing both sides against the middle.


I don't know what you are talking about, but weather and climate are not the same thing. You get that, right?


Of course climate and weather are different things. Hurricanes, downpours, droughts, and tornados are climate. Ice storms, subfreezing temperatures, and snow storms are weather.

???

 

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  posted on 3/3/2014 at 08:04 AM
quote:
Without any credentials in the field of climatology, Moore makes broad allegations that are not supported by verified research.

Hmmm, sounds like a few folks here...ok, so which one of you is really Patrick Moore?

 

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  posted on 3/3/2014 at 08:48 AM
quote:
quote:
Without any credentials in the field of climatology, Moore makes broad allegations that are not supported by verified research.

Hmmm, sounds like a few folks here...ok, so which one of you is really Patrick Moore?




This must be the WP version of the old CBS TV show To Tell The Truth.

 

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  posted on 3/3/2014 at 01:40 PM
quote:
Without any credentials in the field of climatology, Moore makes broad allegations that are not supported by verified research.
Gore has no formal credentials in field either, but wears the papal robes of the greenies nonetheless. A fitting image, since religious-style faith and a willingness to fork over your money to evangelical hustlers for unprovable theories is the movement's model.


And in other news; once again the ideals of the green movement shatter against reality, as expensive standards and lofty visions end up producing a worse result...

quote:
Report: DC’s green-approved buildings using more energy

Washington, D.C. may have the highest number of certified green buildings in the country, but research by Environmental Policy Alliance suggests it might not be doing much good.

The free-market group analyzed the first round of energy usage data released by city officials Friday and found that large, privately-owned buildings that received the green energy certification Leadership in Energy Design (LEED) actually use more energy than buildings that didn’t receive this green stamp of approval.

LEED is the brainchild of the U.S. Green Building Council (USGBC), a private environmental group.

Washington, D.C.’s Department of Environment made the capital the first city in the nation to mandate LEED certifications in the construction of public buildings. The standards are now being phased in.

The results are measured in EUI’s, a unit that relates a building’s energy consumption to its size; the higher the number, the more energy is expended by a smaller building.

Take the Green Building Council’s Washington headquarters. Replete with the group’s top green-energy accolade, the platinum LEED certification, the USGBC’s main base comes in at 236 EUI. The average EUI for uncertified buildings in the capital? Just 199.

Certified buildings’ average comes in at 205 EUI, still less efficient than that didn’t take home the ultimate green trophy.

“LEED certification is little more than a fancy plaque displayed by these ‘green’ buildings,” charged Anastasia Swearingen, LEED Exposed’s lead researcher on the project. “Previous analyses of energy use by LEED-certified buildings have consistently shown that LEED ratings have no bearing on actual energy efficiency.”

Swearingen told The Daily Caller News Foundation the system doesn’t take into account any proof of energy efficiency. The LEED model grades buildings on ideal conditions — the certification is based on “if everyone shuts their blinds, turns off their computers at the end of the day, makes sure the lights are off — but it doesn’t factor in how much energy is really used after it’s actually occupied,” Swearingen contended.

In its own report released with the data, even the city’s Department of Environment acknowledged the concerns raised by the “dependence on a third-party organization, over which the government has no oversight, to set the District’s green building standards.” But while it understands the risks, the D.C. government continues to mandate the ratings for public buildings — and get cash from the program.

The city has collected $5.2 million in permit fees from the program since 2010.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/02/report-dcs-green-approved-buildings-using -more-energy/


 

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  posted on 3/3/2014 at 01:48 PM
quote:
Gore has no formal credentials in field either, but wears the papal robes of the greenies nonetheless. A fitting image, since religious-style faith and a willingness to fork over your money to evangelical hustlers for unprovable theories is the movement's model.



What a bitter, bile filled statement.

The way you lump people together is astounding. Do you really think that every liberal is the same?

Has Gore pretended to have credentials he doesn't have? Did his book cite people with credentials?

 

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  posted on 3/3/2014 at 04:24 PM
If it matters any, this Tennesseean considers Al Gore to be a worthless piece of **** and his Incovenient Truth to be convenient pandering to a gullible audience. The whole premise of "carbon credits" smells loudly of fraud.

Science can certainly be bought - and influenced by an individual scientist's socio-political leanings - and climate change is undeniably cyclical. Whether or not it is affected on a global basis by the activities of mankind is obviously still open for debate.

On a localized basis... No one can deny that it is hard to breathe in Beijing.

Call me a flat earther or what ever other derisive term you choose, but I remain unconvinced.

[Edited on 3/3/2014 by alanwoods]

 

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  posted on 3/3/2014 at 05:00 PM
quote:
On a localized basis... No one can deny that it is hard to breathe in Beijing.

Or that glacial ice is melting/disappearing all over the world.

quote:
Science can certainly be bought - and influenced by an individual scientist's socio-political leanings - and climate change is undenyably cyclical. Whether or not it is affected on a global basis by the activities of mankind is obviously still open for debate.


This is from NOAA:

"Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities(1), and most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position. The following is a partial list of these organizations, along with links to their published statements and a selection of related resources."

Hard to agree that it is open for debate from the scientific standpoint if you accept that 97% percent of climate scientists agree. From a political standpoint it is an entirely different matter.

From the same source...

Statement on climate change from 18 scientific associations:
"Observations throughout the world make it clear that climate change is occurring, and rigorous scientific research demonstrates that the greenhouse gases emitted by human activities are the primary driver." (2009)(2)

List of worldwide scientific organizations:
The following page lists the nearly 200 worldwide scientific organizations that hold the position that climate change has been caused by human action: http://opr.ca.gov/s_listoforganizations.php




[Edited on 3/3/2014 by gondicar]

 

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  posted on 3/3/2014 at 05:01 PM
quote:
quote:
Gore has no formal credentials in field either, but wears the papal robes of the greenies nonetheless. A fitting image, since religious-style faith and a willingness to fork over your money to evangelical hustlers for unprovable theories is the movement's model.
What a bitter, bile filled statement.

The way you lump people together is astounding. Do you really think that every liberal is the same?
Lump? I'm describing the specific group that takes these global warming - oops; climate change (since the first moniker was becoming laughable) - theories as solid, proven science. As absolute as 2+2=4. It is nothing of the kind.

And Gore? He's just another parasite, looking to make billions off fear while producing nothing. If he was honest, he'd tell the world that the only way to significantly alter the man-made CO2 trend is to get rid of about 2/3rds of the humans. And even then, there are no assurances of stable temperatures, because natural forces far outweigh human contributions in the equation. Let's see what kind of following he has then.

No thinking person could not want clear air and water. But one has to recognize when ideas and expenses go past the point of diminishing returns. Throwing hundreds of billions down solar, wind, and biofuel ratholes, or even considering a carbon exchanges, fall into that category. Convert coal power generators to natural gas, convert some portion of our transportation to natural gas, and fund fusion research. The others will find niches in which they will fit as dictated by the market. But only natural gas and eventually fusion will be sufficient to power the foreseeable need.

 

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  posted on 3/3/2014 at 05:09 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Gore has no formal credentials in field either, but wears the papal robes of the greenies nonetheless. A fitting image, since religious-style faith and a willingness to fork over your money to evangelical hustlers for unprovable theories is the movement's model.
What a bitter, bile filled statement.

The way you lump people together is astounding. Do you really think that every liberal is the same?
Lump? I'm describing the specific group that takes these global warming - oops; climate change (since the first moniker was becoming laughable) - theories as solid, proven science. As absolute as 2+2=4. It is nothing of the kind.

And Gore? He's just another parasite, looking to make billions off fear while producing nothing. If he was honest, he'd tell the world that the only way to significantly alter the man-made CO2 trend is to get rid of about 2/3rds of the humans. And even then, there are no assurances of stable temperatures, because natural forces far outweigh human contributions in the equation. Let's see what kind of following he has then.

No thinking person could not want clear air and water. But one has to recognize when ideas and expenses go past the point of diminishing returns. Throwing hundreds of billions down solar, wind, and biofuel ratholes, or even considering a carbon exchanges, fall into that category. Convert coal power generators to natural gas, convert some portion of our transportation to natural gas, and fund fusion research. The others will find niches in which they will fit as dictated by the market. But only natural gas and eventually fusion will be sufficient to power the foreseeable need.


I'm glad you never met Orville Wright as I'm sure you would have convinced him that his flying contraption was pure folly and a waste of time and resources and would only set society back by not focusing on how to make the locomotive better.


[Edited on 3/3/2014 by gondicar]

 

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  posted on 3/3/2014 at 05:12 PM
quote:

Or that glacial ice is melting/disappearing all over the world.




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-A rctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html

 

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