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Author: Subject: Welcome to Part Time America

Zen Peach





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  posted on 8/1/2013 at 08:35 AM
Just when a report is out saying that 80% of Americans are "near poverty."

How will this help the Middle Class? It's hard to imagine how this won't have a disastrous effect on them as well as the economy at large, millions getting their hours cut to under 30...

http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2013/07/31/obamacare-increases-part-t imers-at-schools-local-governments/

We need policies that will lead exactly in the opposite direction, to where employers are paying overtime -- not cutting hours!

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/1/2013 at 09:47 AM
quote:
Just when a report is out saying that 80% of Americans are "near poverty."

How will this help the Middle Class? It's hard to imagine how this won't have a disastrous effect on them as well as the economy at large, millions getting their hours cut to under 30...

http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2013/07/31/obamacare-increases-part-t imers-at-schools-local-governments/

We need policies that will lead exactly in the opposite direction, to where employers are paying overtime -- not cutting hours!


Some have suggested that with technology, automation, robotics, etc. now being at the point where humans are no longer needed as much as just a generation, or even a decade ago, that modern economies should restructure their human work schedules and compensation models to better align with such a reality. For example, things like the traditional work week, overtime, taxing structures, etc. need a complete rethink.

In other words, is humankind finally on the horizon of a period, at least in modern, developed economies, where we scrap much of how view labor and compensation and develop a completely new model?

You know, the things many have predicted would come to pass at some point as technology progressed more and more. Is it possible that time has come and was pushed along by the financial crisis and the fall-out in job loss that we've experienced?

[Edited on 8/1/2013 by Chain]

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/1/2013 at 10:39 AM
i also fully expect in the next 50-75 yrs that 3D printing will replace much of the mfg'ing sector. so yes a rethinking by the general public is needed because those at the top are already thinking about it.
 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/1/2013 at 11:27 AM
I'm sure a worker can get all the overtime they want in China.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/1/2013 at 11:27 AM
quote:
i also fully expect in the next 50-75 yrs that 3D printing will replace much of the mfg'ing sector. so yes a rethinking by the general public is needed because those at the top are already thinking about it.


I think the development of 3-D printing will have a significant effect well sooner than 50-75 years. I would guess within the next decade, actually.

I'm waiting to read a book my boss is currently reading in which the author suggests we're on the cusp of completely eliminating human labor altogether as robotics and technology advance at pace exponentially every year. I'm curious to read what the author suggests we replace our current system of monetary compensation for labor with.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/1/2013 at 11:44 AM
Everybody is already aware of the effect that technological advances have had and will continue to have on labor. But these cuts I'm referring and the link is referring to have nothing to do with that.

They have to do with the government coming in and shoving mandates down everybody's throat, forcing business and individuals into compliance whether they like (or want) it or not. They have written a law that greatly effects the cost of labor whether the technology is there to replace it or not.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/1/2013 at 12:30 PM
All I know is that in the white collar world, there is still an expectation of at least 50 hours of work a week for that 40 hour paycheck........

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 8/1/2013 at 12:37 PM
Fox news advocating for higher payrolls? This is comical, unless it didnt jab Obama in the eye, than its a real concern.



[Edited on 8/1/2013 by OriginalGoober]

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/1/2013 at 12:43 PM
Faux news is now concerned with the shrinking size of government employment? All this time I was under the impression they've been pushing for just such a thing to happen. Suddenly now that the Affordable Care could be the culprit, they're the saviors of government employment.

I have a solution, Medicare for all....Take the responsibility for health care completely off the backs of corporations, small businesses, state and local gov't, not-for profits, school districts, etc....I wonder if Faux news would support such a single payer system?

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 8/1/2013 at 09:27 PM
Chain you should try government health care sometime. I have no choice in the matter and I'm here to tell you that is dehumanizing, inefficient and staffed with the worst that the profession has to offer. Health care is not a human right it is a resource that needs to be left untouched by government intervention.

As far as robots are concerned. Well the Luddites had the same argument back in the early 19th century and that proved to bee false. Robots need repairs, they need to be programmed and they need to be supervised. We are headed to a future where mind power will greatly surpass manpower. The next leap forward will be mining other planets for resources and then Terra-forming other worlds for human colonization. Mankind has done well and we will continue to move upward and onward. So have courage

Fire was our first true piece of technology.
100,000 BC stone tools.
4,000 BC the wheel.
9.th century A.D, gun powder. Bit of a game changer that one!
19th century, eureka the light bulb!
20.th century, the auto-mobile, manned flight, television, nuclear weapons, space crafts,and the Internet.
21.st century, biotech, nanotech, fusion and vision and M-theory and that was just the first decade.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/2/2013 at 07:20 AM
quote:
Chain you should try government health care sometime. I have no choice in the matter and I'm here to tell you that is dehumanizing, inefficient and staffed with the worst that the profession has to offer. Health care is not a human right it is a resource that needs to be left untouched by government intervention.

As far as robots are concerned. Well the Luddites had the same argument back in the early 19th century and that proved to bee false. Robots need repairs, they need to be programmed and they need to be supervised. We are headed to a future where mind power will greatly surpass manpower. The next leap forward will be mining other planets for resources and then Terra-forming other worlds for human colonization. Mankind has done well and we will continue to move upward and onward. So have courage

Fire was our first true piece of technology.
100,000 BC stone tools.
4,000 BC the wheel.
9.th century A.D, gun powder. Bit of a game changer that one!
19th century, eureka the light bulb!
20.th century, the auto-mobile, manned flight, television, nuclear weapons, space crafts,and the Internet.
21.st century, biotech, nanotech, fusion and vision and M-theory and that was just the first decade.


Scotty,

I have government health care in a sense as I get it through the State of New York. And I hate to break the news to you, but government is and has been involved in everyone's health care to a large extent no matter if you have private insurance, medicare, medicaid, TriCare through the military, Veterans adm. healthcare, whatever. What I'm saying is the government plays a role to some degree in the entire system no matter how you access it or who ultimately pays for it.

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't improve, reform, make more cost efficient the current Medicare/Medicaid system as we absolutely should. But we should move to a single payer system that everyone contributes to and at least receives basic medical coverage from. Taking the gargantuan expense of health insurance off the backs of corporations, small businesses, state/local government, not for profits, school districts etc. would be one of the best ways to make them all more competitive and sustainable in the long run. The worst thing this nation ever did with regard to health care was to shackle the above entities with the responsibility of providing their employees with health care coverage.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/2/2013 at 11:07 AM
More evidence to support this issue....

quote:
Obamacare Full Frontal: Of 953,000 Jobs Created In 2013, 77%, Or 731,000 Are Part-Time

When the payroll report was released last month, the world finally noticed what we had been saying for nearly three years: that the US was slowly being converted to a part-time worker society. This slow conversion accelerated drastically in the last few months, and especially in June, when part time jobs exploded higher by 360K while full time jobs dropped by 240K. In July we are sad to report that America's conversation to a part-time worker society is not "tapering": according to the Household Survey, of the 266K jobs created (note this number differs from the establishment survey), only 35% of jobs, or 92K, were full time. The rest were... not.

Charts and story


 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/2/2013 at 11:20 AM
info about the zero hedge website......they seem very credible......LOL

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/2/2013 at 01:57 PM
quote:
Chain you should try government health care sometime. I have no choice in the matter and I'm here to tell you that is dehumanizing, inefficient and staffed with the worst that the profession has to offer. Health care is not a human right it is a resource that needs to be left untouched by government intervention.

As far as robots are concerned. Well the Luddites had the same argument back in the early 19th century and that proved to bee false. Robots need repairs, they need to be programmed and they need to be supervised. We are headed to a future where mind power will greatly surpass manpower. The next leap forward will be mining other planets for resources and then Terra-forming other worlds for human colonization. Mankind has done well and we will continue to move upward and onward. So have courage

Fire was our first true piece of technology.
100,000 BC stone tools.
4,000 BC the wheel.
9.th century A.D, gun powder. Bit of a game changer that one!
19th century, eureka the light bulb!
20.th century, the auto-mobile, manned flight, television, nuclear weapons, space crafts,and the Internet.
21.st century, biotech, nanotech, fusion and vision and M-theory and that was just the first decade.


Right on. Most modern Luddites suffer from a failure of imagination.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/3/2013 at 08:04 AM
Let's be careful not to say anything that can be construed as a criticism of the job creators. We all know that they are trying to do everything in their power to achieve full employment in America. The Obama administration has levied such harsh taxes and regulations that even Corporate America's record profits aren't sufficient consolation.

I'm sure if Mittens had gotten elected, everyone would have a "good job" with benefits and security. That may have necessitated killing off the 47% Mittens mentioned but, you can be sure that loyal Americans would be better off.





 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2013 at 09:17 AM
I am a wounded Soldier and your rant is as cretinous as it is puerile.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2013 at 10:00 AM
quote:
quote:
I am a wounded Soldier and your rant is as cretinous as it is puerile.


Are you receiving VA benefits?

I would say that veterans fall into a completely different category in this issue than private citizens. As veterans, we entered into an agreement with the government to put our lives and limbs on the line anywhere, anytime they asked us to. In return, they agree to provide us lifetime medical benefits(however inept and inneficient they might be), compensation if we are disabled in the line of duty, and a free burial, along with some other benefits. Private citizens enter into no such agreement.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2013 at 10:31 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I am a wounded Soldier and your rant is as cretinous as it is puerile.


Are you receiving VA benefits?

I would say that veterans fall into a completely different category in this issue than private citizens. As veterans, we entered into an agreement with the government to put our lives and limbs on the line anywhere, anytime they asked us to. In return, they agree to provide us lifetime medical benefits(however inept and inneficient they might be), compensation if we are disabled in the line of duty, and a free burial, along with some other benefits. Private citizens enter into no such agreement.


I'm just trying to figure out where to draw the line between sarcasm and hypocrisy with his statement, and where to draw the line for an appropriate time to feel a sense of entitlement to something that was promised to you. The right always like to throw that word 'entitlement' around. When is it ok to feel entitled? For what it's worth, I agree that the military deserve to be cared for at taxpayer expense. With ethics and efficiency. I happen to also believe that the value of a human life is not calculated by what is in his/her wallet. There are people who love and depend upon people of all financial worths.

Someday, the U.S. will have to contend with the fact that their veil of propaganda has been lifted, and people are leaving the country for countries that offer better social welfare programs. When there is nobody to serve their burgers or work in their factories, I guess they'll be just fine with their line of robots to take care of that stuff. Oh wait--they need people to buy that stuff, as well as make it. Hmmm. Maybe robots like burgers.


And Doug, as a teacher, what percentage of your medical benefits are paid for by taxpayers?

It costs @ $1,000 a month to insure myself and my kids through the school district. That is the cheapest p;lan available, and comes with a 5,000 deductible before insurance will pay anything. the district pays @ $250 of that amount. In reality though, taxpayers pay for all of it as they also pay my salary, which is 43k a year after 6 years of employment and holding a Master's degree. And I totally agree with this:
" For what it's worth, I agree that the military deserve to be cared for at taxpayer expense. With ethics and efficiency. I happen to also believe that the value of a human life is not calculated by what is in his/her wallet. There are people who love and depend upon people of all financial worths."

I think people should feel entitled to something that was part of an agreement they entered into, such as getting a paycheck for work performed. Yu are entitled to that money as part of the agreement. I don't agree with this statement:
Someday, the U.S. will have to contend with the fact that their veil of propaganda has been lifted, and people are leaving the country for countries that offer better social welfare programs. When there is nobody to serve their burgers or work in their factories, I guess they'll be just fine with their line of robots to take care of that stuff. Oh wait--they need people to buy that stuff, as well as make it. Hmmm. Maybe robots like burgers.

Way more people are trying to get into the country than leave it. If you make 36k a year or more you are in the top 1% income bracket in the world.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2013 at 10:52 AM
That sounds very interesting. Got any links to those stats? Half of the world's richest 1% live in the US
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/04/news/economy/world_richest/index.htm.

I'd be interested in knowing which countries people are fleeing to that have a higher standard of living.

[Edited on 8/3/2013 by DougMacKenzie]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2013 at 11:10 AM
quote:
quote:
That sounds very interesting. Got any links to those stats? Half of the world's richest 1% live in the US
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/04/news/economy/world_richest/index.htm.

I'd be interested in knowing which countries people are fleeing to that have a higher standard of living.

[Edited on 8/3/2013 by DougMacKenzie]


well, no chit! That's who this country caters to. I'm talking about countries that cater a little bit more to the people at the bottom end of the food pyramid. I'm not even going to bother researching the sources. I've shared plenty of them elsewhere. Believe what you want. I have no desire to convince you of anything. Plenty of countries out there who offer true universal healthcare, law-enforced vacation time and much cheaper post-secondary public education. And more effective banking regulation that prevents disasters like ours from occurring rather than allowing them to happen and then throw money at the source of the problem without anybody going to jail. Not to mention stronger economies. You have either been paying attention to the news sources who report this information or not.

Uh, 36K a year puts you in the richest 1% in the world. If you deline to source your claims that's fine. Do you personally plan on leaving the US for greener pastures, or do you plan to stay here?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2013 at 11:29 AM
Which race are you talking about? Are you talking about whether or not you leave the US? If so, I'm curious if things are bad enough for you to leave your home country for another country where you believe things are better. Several members of this forum have talked about such moves for years. With all it's faults and flaws, I don't believe you will find a place with a higher standard of living or more opportunities than the US. I'm curious if you are just venting or if you really believe life is better elsewhere.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2013 at 11:35 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
That sounds very interesting. Got any links to those stats? Half of the world's richest 1% live in the US
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/04/news/economy/world_richest/index.htm.

I'd be interested in knowing which countries people are fleeing to that have a higher standard of living.

[Edited on 8/3/2013 by DougMacKenzie]


well, no chit! That's who this country caters to. I'm talking about countries that cater a little bit more to the people at the bottom end of the food pyramid. I'm not even going to bother researching the sources. I've shared plenty of them elsewhere. Believe what you want. I have no desire to convince you of anything. Plenty of countries out there who offer true universal healthcare, law-enforced vacation time and much cheaper post-secondary public education. And more effective banking regulation that prevents disasters like ours from occurring rather than allowing them to happen and then throw money at the source of the problem without anybody going to jail. Not to mention stronger economies. You have either been paying attention to the news sources who report this information or not.

Uh, 36K a year puts you in the richest 1% in the world. If you deline to source your claims that's fine. Do you personally plan on leaving the US for greener pastures, or do you plan to stay here?


Gonna leave all of ya with a cliffhanger there. What dog do you personally have in that race, anyways, Doug?


And why do you keep quoting the number 36K? What does that have to do with me? For you to think that has any bearing on my stance on the issue and puts me on the same side of the aisle as you, then you apparently think I am making that much money. I don't believe I have shared my earnings with you at all. Care to ellaborate?

It has nothing to do with you personally. I guess I should have said "Puts one in the richest 1% in the world." That is the cutoff point worldwide for the richest 1% in the world, half of which live in the US. Goes to show standard of living here in rebuttal to your assertion that things are better elsewhere. What we choose to spend that money on, whether it's cell phones, plasma scren TVs, health insurance, or education is another matter.

[Edited on 8/3/2013 by DougMacKenzie]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2013 at 11:41 AM
quote:
quote:
Which race are you talking about? Are you talking about whether or not you leave the US? If so, I'm curious if things are bad enough for you to leave your home country for another country where you believe things are better. Several members of this forum have talked about such moves for years. With all it's faults and flaws, I don't believe you will find a place with a higher standard of living or more opportunities than the US. I'm curious if you are just venting or if you really believe life is better elsewhere.


Then you are certainly free to stay and keep earning a whopping 43k with a Master's Degree. Sorry to hear you are so underpaid. Perhaps my aunt's school district would treat you better. Belief has nothing to do with it. We are no longer in a courtroom where all that really matters is the belief that a jury has. What matters are the facts. And I've seen the facts. If you haven't, and you choose to follow the irrational logic that since you have not seen it, it cannot be true, then so be it. It doesn't matter to me.

I don't believe I'm underpaid; I believe I'm fairly compensated for this part of the country and we get along pretty well. I've looked at all the information i can find, and what I see tells me the US has a very nice standard of living, with lots of opportunities, and I like it here. I've asked you for the "facts" that you have that prove otherwise, and you've declined to share them. Oh well.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2013 at 11:45 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
That sounds very interesting. Got any links to those stats? Half of the world's richest 1% live in the US
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/04/news/economy/world_richest/index.htm.

I'd be interested in knowing which countries people are fleeing to that have a higher standard of living.

[Edited on 8/3/2013 by DougMacKenzie]


well, no chit! That's who this country caters to. I'm talking about countries that cater a little bit more to the people at the bottom end of the food pyramid. I'm not even going to bother researching the sources. I've shared plenty of them elsewhere. Believe what you want. I have no desire to convince you of anything. Plenty of countries out there who offer true universal healthcare, law-enforced vacation time and much cheaper post-secondary public education. And more effective banking regulation that prevents disasters like ours from occurring rather than allowing them to happen and then throw money at the source of the problem without anybody going to jail. Not to mention stronger economies. You have either been paying attention to the news sources who report this information or not.

Uh, 36K a year puts you in the richest 1% in the world. If you deline to source your claims that's fine. Do you personally plan on leaving the US for greener pastures, or do you plan to stay here?


Gonna leave all of ya with a cliffhanger there. What dog do you personally have in that race, anyways, Doug?


And why do you keep quoting the number 36K? What does that have to do with me? For you to think that has any bearing on my stance on the issue and puts me on the same side of the aisle as you, then you apparently think I am making that much money. I don't believe I have shared my earnings with you at all. Care to ellaborate?

It has nothing to do with you personally. I guess I should have said "Puts one in the richest 1% in the world." That is the cutoff point worldwide for the richest 1% in the world, half of which live in the US. Goes to show standard of living here in rebuttal to your assertion that things are better elsewhere. What we choose to spend that money on, whether it's cell phones, plasma scren TVs, health insurance, or education is another matter.

[Edited on 8/3/2013 by DougMacKenzie]


Sorry, statistics that encourage complacency with a situation that brings me grief does not change my mind about anything. I took psych 101 in college too, Doug.

I'm sorry you are experiencing grief, but your grief does not equate to the stats encouraging complacency. I'd be more than happy to examine any sources you have about the truth. And congrats on your coursework, although I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2013 at 11:53 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Which race are you talking about? Are you talking about whether or not you leave the US? If so, I'm curious if things are bad enough for you to leave your home country for another country where you believe things are better. Several members of this forum have talked about such moves for years. With all it's faults and flaws, I don't believe you will find a place with a higher standard of living or more opportunities than the US. I'm curious if you are just venting or if you really believe life is better elsewhere.


Then you are certainly free to stay and keep earning a whopping 43k with a Master's Degree. Sorry to hear you are so underpaid. Perhaps my aunt's school district would treat you better. Belief has nothing to do with it. We are no longer in a courtroom where all that really matters is the belief that a jury has. What matters are the facts. And I've seen the facts. If you haven't, and you choose to follow the irrational logic that since you have not seen it, it cannot be true, then so be it. It doesn't matter to me.

I don't believe I'm underpaid; I believe I'm fairly compensated for this part of the country and we get along pretty well. I've looked at all the information i can find, and what I see tells me the US has a very nice standard of living, with lots of opportunities, and I like it here. I've asked you for the "facts" that you have that prove otherwise, and you've declined to share them. Oh well.


You've got to look outside Fox News to get those facts, Doug. And I'm glad that your perception is that you're well paid. However, perception is not fact. You're underpaid. My father retired from teaching making nearly 70k at age 55, and continues to receive nearly 60% of his final year's salary, and he doesn't even need to get out of bed to do that. And he didn't have a Master's Degree. But he did have a number of graduate credits...atleast enough to certify him. And that was nearly 20 years ago that he was earning that (after 30 years). You live near Dallas, right? 43k in Dallas doesn't get you very far.

Actually, I don't watch Fox news. I'm more of an ESPN - History Channel guy. I get my information by reading as many varied sources as I can. I live west of Ft. Worth, and in this area my salary combined with my wife's, who is also a Master's level teacher, puts us in a comfortable position. I did not say I was well paid, I said I believe I was fairly compensated. I'm fine with our standard of living and the family time it affords us, which is much more important to me than how much money I make. We've worked hard to get here,and endured some difficult times in the process. We're happy with what we have.

 

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