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Author: Subject: Anybody use one of these yet?

World Class Peach





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  posted on 2/19/2011 at 09:50 AM
Tone Rite

http://tonerite.com/guitar/vmchk



http://www.amazon.com/ToneRite%C2%AE-3G-Guitar/dp/B004BA83ZO/ref=sr_1_1?ie= UTF8&qid=1298126194&sr=8-1

This device is being touted as a way of playing in a guitar, whether vintage or brand new, to open up its voice and make it sound hands-over-fist better than before. Since I am mainly an acoustic guy I feel the $150 is worth it to take, say, my '52 Gibson L-48, or my 2001 Taylor 314 (koa) and see if there is any noticeable difference.

It works by producing a vibration that is sonically similar to the one produced by playing the instrument. While I think this is one element of what opens up the voice of a guitar the price tag is right to help the process along.

A little test study (?) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtDXnTGnNc8

Any thoughts?

 
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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 2/19/2011 at 12:12 PM
I'm always skeptical about gagets that make claims. Sound is influenced by too many variables and the way a guitar sounds changes even as it warms up. Especially an acoustic that can go from cold and lifeless, when taken out of the case, to alive and singing just a few minutes later. For me a week is such a long time to a/b something that I don't believe I can truely remember what I heard a week ago in detail. What was being recorded is also a week later and again things change even though he tried to keep everything the same. Also after you do this to your 2 guitars then what? It's 150 bucks....I guess you could sell the service to others if you believe it works.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 2/19/2011 at 02:45 PM
A vibrator for a guitar...ha ha.
Lean it against a stereo speaker, same effect.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 2/20/2011 at 05:50 PM
What do y'all think about this?

I've been pondering what may be going on here and I think I may be on to something.

After watching that video I noticed that before the "treatment" the voice of the guitar was very "sharp", with the highs and mids well-defined. Afterward they blended much more. And so I got to thinking about the wood, in particular the top. Since wood is by nature very porous (? filled with pores?) the vibration may be condensing the pores, or collapsing them, much like having a bottle of sand and pebbles. If you turn it, or vibrate it, the sand will sink and the pebbles will rise to the top. Could it be that the vibration is doing something similar to the wood? They also say that it takes continuous treatments to get it to open up. This would jive with the wood pore idea because over time they would begin to expand again, if it is not played for a while?

Or am I just really f'n bored . . . ? ? ?

 

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  posted on 2/20/2011 at 11:48 PM
You're really efn bored.

I have have Bad ears, but I heard a very slight difference and I liked it more before the treatment, it seemed brighter, which might be written off to the strings being a week older.

 

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  posted on 2/21/2011 at 01:13 AM
quote:
You're really efn bored.

I have have Bad ears, but I heard a very slight difference and I liked it more before the treatment, it seemed brighter, which might be written off to the strings being a week older.


This is another variable to sound...personal preference.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 2/22/2011 at 10:58 AM
The more I think about it the more I believe that the vibrations produced by the Tone Rite are somehow making the wood more dense, producing a different tone. Think about this- Ever pick up a space fan- like a box or oscillating fan? The rotating fan produces a certain amount of vibration that affects the whole object, often vibrating the surface near it as well. If you pick it up you can feel a certain amount of resistance to the force you are exerting by unsettling it (the table or floor that it had been sitting on was offering a consistent amount of resistance), and then grab it more firmly to attempt to exert a more consistent force against its vibration. Something similar is going on with the wood of the guitar offering a specific amount of consistent resistance to the vibrations created by playing. But because the wood is porous with only a thin coat of finish applied it is less measurable; and also more susceptible to changing depending upon the amount and amplitude of vibration it is exposed to. The result appears to be the condensing of the wood, possible collapsing the fibrous wood pores, and producing a more resonant surface through which sound is carried more efficiently.

Maybe?

 

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  posted on 2/23/2011 at 04:14 PM
quote:
The more I think about it the more I believe that the vibrations produced by the Tone Rite are somehow making the wood more dense, producing a different tone. Think about this- Ever pick up a space fan- like a box or oscillating fan? The rotating fan produces a certain amount of vibration that affects the whole object, often vibrating the surface near it as well. If you pick it up you can feel a certain amount of resistance to the force you are exerting by unsettling it (the table or floor that it had been sitting on was offering a consistent amount of resistance), and then grab it more firmly to attempt to exert a more consistent force against its vibration. Something similar is going on with the wood of the guitar offering a specific amount of consistent resistance to the vibrations created by playing. But because the wood is porous with only a thin coat of finish applied it is less measurable; and also more susceptible to changing depending upon the amount and amplitude of vibration it is exposed to. The result appears to be the condensing of the wood, possible collapsing the fibrous wood pores, and producing a more resonant surface through which sound is carried more efficiently.

Maybe?


Wouldn't goldtoppers suggestion to lean it against a speaker then accomplish the same effect. I don't think the wood pores collapse I think they stay open but the wood around the pores dries and allows the wood to move more freely. But again the guitar or any wood instrument will accept any mositure in the air around it so to accomplish your goal you first need to know what the correct humidy levels are for the type of wood in your instrument. I know Piano companies dry wood based on where the instrument is suppose to go in the world. A instrument that is designed for a humid environment will have major problems if brought to the SF Bay Area where the humidity levels are much lower. Just like a guitar in Az will crack if left out of it's case and a guitar in GA will swell. So in those environments your device will give you a different result.... Just some thoughts

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/28/2011 at 12:25 AM
quote:
The more I think about it the more I believe that the vibrations produced by the Tone Rite are somehow making the wood more dense, producing a different tone. Think about this- Ever pick up a space fan- like a box or oscillating fan? The rotating fan produces a certain amount of vibration that affects the whole object, often vibrating the surface near it as well. If you pick it up you can feel a certain amount of resistance to the force you are exerting by unsettling it (the table or floor that it had been sitting on was offering a consistent amount of resistance), and then grab it more firmly to attempt to exert a more consistent force against its vibration. Something similar is going on with the wood of the guitar offering a specific amount of consistent resistance to the vibrations created by playing. But because the wood is porous with only a thin coat of finish applied it is less measurable; and also more susceptible to changing depending upon the amount and amplitude of vibration it is exposed to. The result appears to be the condensing of the wood, possible collapsing the fibrous wood pores, and producing a more resonant surface through which sound is carried more efficiently.

Maybe?


How can it make the wood more dense? That requires adding mass, you can't do that with vibrations.
you would have to expose your guitar to intense radiation to add mass. or more humidity.

If the wood has gotten too light
That is a function of humidity. If you take a guitar that is dried out and store it with a humidifier
then It will get heavier and more dense from reabsorbing the moisture. But I don't think that could
happpen with just vibration. To compress the wood the way you propose would take intense forces
to compress the fibers the way you suggest. Again I don't think the device can produce those forces.

(I did get an Alvarez 12 string that was dried out and re-humidifying the guitar improved its tone and did
make it slightly but noticeably heavier (more dense))



I have heard of folks sitting guitars by a speaker to "break them in" I used to leave my Taylor
next to my speakers when I first got it, Figured it couldn't hurt.

Since all matter is just vibrating energy does it cause the wood to realign at the subatomic level?

In such a way that it optimizes or refines the sound of the wood?

I say just sit your guitar with appropriate humidity in front of some good speakers and play some ABB
vinyl through them. that ought to get those particles vibrating in harmony!

Or send your hard earned dollar to the snake oil salesman.



 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/28/2011 at 01:00 AM
The testimonials on the web site are all anecdotal The one luthier says the guitar sounds louder!
That is very subjective, perhaps he played louder.

The objective way to prove this device is to take nice instrument with woods that have cured and aged
and play it and record its sonic output at a certain db of output. Then use this device as instructed
maintaining the same humidity and all other controls you can manage and then record the instrument again
in the same way at the same levels and then compare the recordings. Produce histograms of frequency response
for both recordings and see if results change. This how the guys at stereophile look at the changes manufacturers make in their Hi Fi Products. You maintain controls and record the results.
And then give their analysis of the data and trained but subjective opinion on how it sounds to them.

You would have to use a mechanical device to strum to test the claim of making the instrument louder
or measure the force in both cases with an accelerometer. You could align those measurements to
ensure the force is the same in both analysis.

I don't see that kind of analysis to support these claims. Subjective measures can often be self fulling or
a placebo effect. You think it sounds better because that was the hope of using the device.

I would be interested to see some scientific analysis of the type the Stereophile guys do of their claims.

I did some of this type of analysis for a microphone selection and design for a product we were developing and
really find that interesting to do. That is what got me into computer digital recording of sound.
We made field recordings on a DAT and then transferred that to a Mac 840 AV where we did
our analysis, design and simulations in MATLAB.

fun stuff.

 

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