Thread: Valid I.D. to vote?..Yes or No?

BIGV - 6/24/2020 at 02:06 AM

Straightforward question.


kevdab - 6/24/2020 at 01:03 PM

yes


Rusty - 6/24/2020 at 01:11 PM

I consider myself an independent voter. I'm fed up with both major parties. Hard for me to name a politician that I even respect - much less one that I love.

Having said this, I'll relate an instance that I once saw.

Years ago, I was scheduled for an out of town biz trip on a presidential election day. I went through the procedure to get an early absentee ballot. There was no provision to mail in the vote. I had to go to a polling place and pull levers in the booth.

While there, I could not help but notice a group of activists bringing van loads of people in to vote. Voter ID? A piece of mail - preferably a utility bill was all that was required. Many of these voters could've passed for alley winos. Just an observation on my part (fire away).

It is quite possible that all of this was on the up and up. But it started the wheels rolling in my brain: if I knew exactly who was in the hospital, retirement homes or bedridden - I could snatch a telephone bill from their mailbox and steal their vote!

It leads to a discussion about voter theft and fraud - which always leads to a bunch of defenders decrying that if such theft DID exist, it would be on such a small scale that no difference in the outcome could be achieved. And they're probably correct.

My own opinion is that my vote is one of the most powerful tools that I own (I can tell myself this!). If buying an airline ticket or cashing a check requires showing a picture ID - why shouldn't voting? So, personally I have no qualms with requiring an ID to vote. I know - I'm an @$$hole.


porkchopbob - 6/24/2020 at 01:34 PM

I'm fine with some form of verification, but there should be a broad range of acceptable forms. A utility bill should still be acceptable as proof of residency and no one is stealing electric bills or bank statements - I get mine in my email. If you vote by mail, you don't need to show an ID. More people are doing that these days anyways, it keeps lines to a minimum at the polls.

Voting should be easy and accessible, ID laws should not be narrow. In 2016 my wife was actually turned away at the polls here in FL, she still had a NY state DL even though she had her FL voter registration on hand. She had a second form that was listed as acceptable (just in case) but the poll clerk denied it on some arbitrary technicality. A NY license is good enough to get on a plane, but not vote. We had to go home and get her passport and a piece of mail. How many people just don't bother to go back? That's the issue, not proving you are you, but that it shouldn't be more difficult than getting on a plane.

[Edited on 6/24/2020 by porkchopbob]


piacere - 6/24/2020 at 02:43 PM

A utility bill?

Picture i.d., yes.


BrerRabbit - 6/24/2020 at 03:46 PM

Oregon's fine with voting by mail. May be more an issue where you live, or swing states. Votng by mail is a real blessing for folks like me for whom getting out for simple errands is sometimes impossible. I am sure a lot of other shut-ins feel the same.


BrerRabbit - 6/24/2020 at 04:14 PM

quote:
I could not help but notice a group of activists bringing van loads of people in to vote. Voter ID? A piece of mail - preferably a utility bill was all that was required. Many of these voters could've passed for alley winos.


They most likely were alley winos. Homeless advocacy organizations help folks with registering and transport to the polls. Alley winos have as much a right to vote as craft beer afficionados in nice condos.

A quick glance at this homeless assistance site offers a better explanation than vanloads of dirty infiltrators:

https://nationalhomeless.org/campaigns/voting/

I think these are excellent efforts, I can personally sympathize as someone who can't get to the polls myself.

[Edited on 6/24/2020 by BrerRabbit]


Rusty - 6/24/2020 at 04:52 PM

quote:
quote:
I could not help but notice a group of activists bringing van loads of people in to vote. Voter ID? A piece of mail - preferably a utility bill was all that was required. Many of these voters could've passed for alley winos.


They most likely were alley winos. Homeless advocacy organizations help folks with registering and transport to the polls. Alley winos have as much a right to vote as craft beer afficionados in nice condos.

A quick glance at this homeless assistance site offers a better explanation than vanloads of dirty infiltrators:

https://nationalhomeless.org/campaigns/voting/

As most always, you are 100% correct. Everybody deserves a voice and a ride to the polls - even alley winos with sketchy identification who never bother to update their voter credentials. You are absolutely correct.

[Edited on 6/24/2020 by BrerRabbit]


Sang - 6/24/2020 at 05:01 PM

I'm sure there are many articles to be found to explain why a picture ID is easy to get if you live in a suburban area like I do. It is much different for elderly, poor, and minorities in many states. Alabama is a prime example - closing DMV offices in minority areas and making it almost impossible to get to the closest office 60 miles away during limited hours. Also, the requirements for these id's require things like birth certificates, which for many poor and elderly may be hard to find or get, and costs money.

In Illinois, some areas have early voting for about 3 weeks before an election. As a retiree, I take full advantage of this. You must show an ID for early voting. You must also sign the book at the polling place, and they check your signature against the one they have on file. My township has an early voting site, very convenient. If you wait until election day to vote, you vote at your precinct, and no ID is required, but you do have to provide a signature that is checked.

If it were easy and fair for everybody to get an ID, I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, that is still not the case everywhere in the country, and other types of voter suppression (see Wisconsin and Kentucky, for example) seem to always happen in the poor and minority areas.


BrerRabbit - 6/24/2020 at 05:29 PM

quote:
. . . alley winos with sketchy identification who never bother to update their voter credentials.


The homeless advocacy groups who transport folks to the polls help them get current with registration. They don't just cruise the bridges and look behind dumpsters, pile em into vans, hand them all stolen utility bills and say go for it and a twenty $ blll bonus if you vote Democrat.


Rusty - 6/24/2020 at 05:37 PM

quote:
quote:
. . . alley winos with sketchy identification who never bother to update their voter credentials.


The homeless advocacy groups who transport folks to the polls help them get current with registration. They don't just cruise the bridges and look behind dumpsters, pile em into vans, hand them all stolen utility bills and say go for it and a twenty $ blll bonus if you vote Democrat.


$20 bills to vote Democrat? Who said anything like that?


BrerRabbit - 6/24/2020 at 05:43 PM

^ It was just a reference to voter fraud paranoia - I said it, nobody else. We might as well get used to vans full of homeless voters, their numbers are growing exponentially, many fine folks whose incomes are shot.


Chain - 6/24/2020 at 05:54 PM

How about we simply do automatic voter registration when you turn 18 via the social security system and the voter provides or verifies the number when at the polling site or when voting with an absentee ballot?

Your SS number is after all a form of ID...One the govít and your township and/or polling site already has.....

This automatic registration should NOT include party affiliation initially but may be changed later by the voter....It's one way to simplify voting and weaken the power of political parties.


Rusty - 6/24/2020 at 05:57 PM

I'm sure this was an acceptable tactic to round up voters no matter who they cast their ballot for.

You'd never know it (I certainly wouldn't), but I guess I've led a sheltered life. Utility bills for identification ... I'm sorry, but this is where it starts to sound sketchy. FYI - you can get a photo ID - basically a DL with a "non-driver" stamp on it - at "satellite courthouses" located out in the boonies in most every state. Takes about the same effort to get to one of these places as it does to get to a polling place. My mom had one of these - as does my 82 year-old aunt right now.

Lastly, I didn't mean to come off sounding insensitive to those without transportation. It's what I get for going essay on a yes/no question.


BrerRabbit - 6/24/2020 at 06:06 PM

Essay on Rusty! Way better dialogue than Archie Bunker one liners and pitbull knotted rope lockjaw arguments and interrogation tactics.

What I would like to hear ideas on is how come it is always conservatives firing up the voter fraud angle?


piacere - 6/24/2020 at 06:12 PM

Wait a few, it'll get there...


BrerRabbit - 6/24/2020 at 06:25 PM

Is the WP down to how many now? We are getting to be like the Supreme Court of HTW now.


porkchopbob - 6/24/2020 at 06:32 PM

quote:
Is the WP down to how many now? We are getting to be like the Supreme Court of HTW now.

with or without Boynton Bro's alter-egos?


BIGV - 6/24/2020 at 06:49 PM

quote:
Utility bills for identification ... I'm sorry, but this is where it starts to sound sketchy.


Agreed. Can I show my utility bill to a Police officer when I am pulled over for a traffic violation?

How about when I am cashing my paycheck?

Can I get a drug prescription refilled with this?

Shall I go on?


piacere - 6/24/2020 at 07:54 PM

quote:
quote:
Is the WP down to how many now? We are getting to be like the Supreme Court of HTW now.

with or without Boynton Bro's alter-egos?


Counting those? We'd be like the Senate.


stormyrider - 6/24/2020 at 08:20 PM

sounds like a no brainer

but some states find a way to make it hard for minorities and elderly to vote
before my mom died, she probably did not have a valid drivers license, so, depending on how easy or difficult it was to get some sort of non driving photo ID she may not have been able to vote

Vote by mail should be allowed - what is the ID form for that?

voter suppresion in the US is a real thing.

not a simple question.


BrerRabbit - 6/24/2020 at 09:53 PM

Who cares? Voting is for liberal sheeple!

ZIEG TRUMP


BIGV - 6/24/2020 at 10:43 PM

quote:
sounds like a no brainer

but some states find a way to make it hard for minorities and elderly to vote
before my mom died, she probably did not have a valid drivers license, so, depending on how easy or difficult it was to get some sort of non driving photo ID she may not have been able to vote

Vote by mail should be allowed - what is the ID form for that?

voter suppresion in the US is a real thing.

not a simple question.


Fair enough. But the question remains.."If you can get to the Polling Booth, can you not find a way to get to the DMV & The Post Office"?


pops42 - 6/24/2020 at 11:38 PM

quote:
quote:
sounds like a no brainer

but some states find a way to make it hard for minorities and elderly to vote
before my mom died, she probably did not have a valid drivers license, so, depending on how easy or difficult it was to get some sort of non driving photo ID she may not have been able to vote

Vote by mail should be allowed - what is the ID form for that?

voter suppresion in the US is a real thing.

not a simple question.


Fair enough. But the question remains.."If you can get to the Polling Booth, can you not find a way to get to the DMV & The Post Office"?
Voting in the USA should be easy, mail in ballots should be expanded, especially in the time of a pandemic. republicans and especially trump dont want it to be easy for black, Brown, Poor or Elderly to vote, because they [republicans] would be out of a job.

[Edited on 6/25/2020 by pops42]


crazyjoe - 6/25/2020 at 12:01 AM

quote:
quote:
sounds like a no brainer

but some states find a way to make it hard for minorities and elderly to vote
before my mom died, she probably did not have a valid drivers license, so, depending on how easy or difficult it was to get some sort of non driving photo ID she may not have been able to vote

Vote by mail should be allowed - what is the ID form for that?

voter suppresion in the US is a real thing.

not a simple question.
.

Fair enough. But the question remains.."If you can get to the Polling Booth, can you not find a way to get to the DMV & The Post Office"?


The US Mail Service still will pick up, as well as deliver to the same home mailbox, this solves the problem for countless thousands of house bound old folks to still participate?...........joe


BIGV - 6/25/2020 at 01:12 AM

quote:
republicans and especially trump dont want it to be easy for black, Brown, Poor or Elderly to vote, because they [republicans] would be out of a job.


Is this the only group that can not provide I.D.?

How do they drive?.....Open Bank accounts?....Get their prescriptions filled?


pops42 - 6/25/2020 at 02:41 AM

quote:
quote:
republicans and especially trump dont want it to be easy for black, Brown, Poor or Elderly to vote, because they [republicans] would be out of a job.


Is this the only group that can not provide I.D.?

How do they drive?.....Open Bank accounts?....Get their prescriptions filled?
Why cant mail in voting be expanded??, why are people having their voting rights trampled in Georgia?.


BIGV - 6/25/2020 at 03:18 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
republicans and especially trump dont want it to be easy for black, Brown, Poor or Elderly to vote, because they [republicans] would be out of a job.


Is this the only group that can not provide I.D.?

How do they drive?.....Open Bank accounts?....Get their prescriptions filled?
Why cant mail in voting be expanded??, why are people having their voting rights trampled in Georgia?.


I do not know. Why does the left always bring up "black, Brown, Poor & eldery" as the only groups who struggle with the formalities tied to casting a ballot?

[Edited on 6/25/2020 by BIGV]


2112 - 6/25/2020 at 04:54 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
republicans and especially trump dont want it to be easy for black, Brown, Poor or Elderly to vote, because they [republicans] would be out of a job.


Is this the only group that can not provide I.D.?

How do they drive?.....Open Bank accounts?....Get their prescriptions filled?
Why cant mail in voting be expanded??, why are people having their voting rights trampled in Georgia?.


I do not know. Why does the left always bring up "black, Brown, Poor & eldery" as the only groups who struggle with the formalities ties to casting a ballot?


Maybe because rich, young people don't have a problem getting a drivers license or passport.


BIGV - 6/25/2020 at 06:30 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
republicans and especially trump dont want it to be easy for black, Brown, Poor or Elderly to vote, because they [republicans] would be out of a job.


Is this the only group that can not provide I.D.?

How do they drive?.....Open Bank accounts?....Get their prescriptions filled?
Why cant mail in voting be expanded??, why are people having their voting rights trampled in Georgia?.


I do not know. Why does the left always bring up "black, Brown, Poor & eldery" as the only groups who struggle with the formalities ties to casting a ballot?


Maybe because rich, young people don't have a problem getting a drivers license or passport.


In California it costs all of $37 to acquire a DL, does that kind of expenditure qualify you as "rich"?


porkchopbob - 6/25/2020 at 01:03 PM

quote:
In California it costs all of $37 to acquire a DL, does that kind of expenditure qualify you as "rich"?

It shouldn't cost anything to vote. $37/person can be a luxury when you're feeding and clothing kids on a budget. If an ID is required at poling stations, any ID and proof of residency should suffice. Otherwise we are solving a problem that barely exists (voter fraud) while creating a larger one (turning voters away).

Driving might seem universal to you in your world, but in many parts of the country it isn't. My grandmother didn't learn to drive until she was in her late 50s, after my grandfather passed. Many elderly refrain from driving at a certain point in life. Meanwhile, I know plenty of people in large metro areas with public transportation who never learned to drive.


BIGV - 6/25/2020 at 04:14 PM

quote:
It shouldn't cost anything to vote.


It does not. The same I.D. that costs $37 serves a multitude of purposes including the ability to open a bank account which over a very short time pays for itself and saves all of the money a cash checking convenience store probably charges.

Acquiring a valid I.D. does not require a college degree and if you can not figure out how to make that a priority in life, well that is on you.


porkchopbob - 6/25/2020 at 04:53 PM

quote:
quote:
It shouldn't cost anything to vote.

It does not. The same I.D. that costs $37

So it should cost $37 is what you're saying. Plus traffic school costs. If you don't drive, which I mentioned still occurs, there are other identification options.

quote:
If you do not have a California driver license or identification card number, but you enter your other information, the website will create a pre-filled voter registration application for you to print, sign, and mail. All of your information will be sent directly to your county elections office so that when your signed application arrives in the mail, the county elections staff will simply add your signature to your voter registration record.


But in fact, it costs nothing to vote in CA, no ID is typically required, including a DL because you are not proving that you are legally allowed to drive (which is the purpose of a DL) you are proving that you are a resident of that voting district.



BrerRabbit - 6/25/2020 at 05:22 PM

This voting hoohaw is nothing but an effort to sabotage the voting process and create more chaos around the 2020 election.


MartinD28 - 6/25/2020 at 05:33 PM

quote:
This voting hoohaw is nothing but an effort to sabotage the voting process and create more chaos around the 2020 election.


Trump has already admiited the more people that vote that it'll not be good for the GOP.

So using that reasoning - make it as difficult as possible to vote - mandate id's, dissuade vote by mail (even though the royal family and much of the Trump Circle does this regularly), and gerrymandering. Sounds like a good formula .


BIGV - 6/25/2020 at 10:44 PM

quote:
in the financial industry at least, major banks do indeed consider an electric bill as a legitimate proof of residence.


Boynton Brother returns yet again!


piacere - 6/25/2020 at 11:04 PM

quote:
quote:
in the financial industry at least, major banks do indeed consider an electric bill as a legitimate proof of residence.


Boynton Brother returns yet again!


Geez, the guy's a one man pandemic.


BIGV - 6/26/2020 at 01:31 PM

quote:
are you two sensitive about discussing the financial industry or something?


Sensitive? That is a riot.

Boynton Brother is back for a 4th time!


piacere - 6/26/2020 at 01:57 PM

quote:
are you two sensitive about discussing the financial industry or something?


C'mon man, you know better than that...


Pdouble - 6/26/2020 at 03:25 PM

Sure as long as the ID is free.


tcatanesi - 6/26/2020 at 03:40 PM

quote:
Geez, the guy's a one man pandemic.


More like endemic ó stubbornly resisting efforts to be stamped out.


cyclone88 - 6/26/2020 at 04:10 PM

quote:
why do you care what my screen name is? i wanted to change my screen name, and you guys are melting down over it. either i bother Rowland to officially change my screen name, or i create it myself and leave the guy alone. or, if you think it's a good look for you to bother Rowland yet again, freak out over a screen name, when we're all anonymous on here, be my guest. or, man up and just respond to what i say and stop acting like children. IP addresses change every couple days, or when you reset your router - are you going to bother Rowland every time I create the screen name that I want to have? grow up guys, seriousely.
[Edited on 6/26/2020 by FLhurricane89]


Frankly, I thought your name was Boynton Brother & didn't learn until recently that it was Boyton Brother so I really don't care what you call yourself.

What's objectionable is that instead of changing your username w/Rowland as per the policy you agreed to when you joined, you pretend to be 4 different users in less than 3 weeks AND LIE when asked if you were ever Boyton Brother or Muleman1994 when it's obvious you're either a fake or a troll. It's hardly a bother to Rowland to change your name & then you could just say "Hey guys, it's me Boyton Brother w/a new username."

Don't make us the bad guys for recognizing you. Act like a normal guy who wants to change his username & abide by the same policies we all do.


porkchopbob - 6/26/2020 at 04:45 PM

quote:
Sure as long as the ID is free.

Agreed.


Chain - 6/26/2020 at 06:02 PM

Another reason to automatically register individuals via the SS system and use that same number when voting...Itís already been applied for and registered at birth...Make the system more secure for the digital age and use it for voting....It really isnít rocket science. Just improve the security measures that safeguard our SS number....


Jerry - 6/26/2020 at 07:50 PM

quote:
quote:
. . . alley winos with sketchy identification who never bother to update their voter credentials.


The homeless advocacy groups who transport folks to the polls help them get current with registration. They don't just cruise the bridges and look behind dumpsters, pile em into vans, hand them all stolen utility bills and say go for it and a twenty $ blll bonus if you vote Democrat.


Three easy questions to answer:
1) If they are homeless, what utility bills do they have? Water, gas, cable, phone, electric?
2) How much if they vote GOP?
3) Why don't they help them get a state ID card?


Jerry - 6/26/2020 at 07:55 PM

quote:
How about we simply do automatic voter registration when you turn 18 via the social security system and the voter provides or verifies the number when at the polling site or when voting with an absentee ballot?

Your SS number is after all a form of ID...One the govít and your township and/or polling site already has.....

This automatic registration should NOT include party affiliation initially but may be changed later by the voter....It's one way to simplify voting and weaken the power of political parties.


In most counties in GA, there is a voter registration drive at the start of the school year for those who will be eligible to vote in the next election.
Also, you don't register under any party affiliation.


Jerry - 6/26/2020 at 08:05 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
in the financial industry at least, major banks do indeed consider an electric bill as a legitimate proof of residence.


Boynton Brother returns yet again!


Geez, the guy's a one man pandemic.


I've been gone two days. Are you telling me he got bounced again, then came back again, and got bounced, again?
roland needs to put a lock on that IP address.

Of course if he sends me the 12 AR-15s he owes me, I might back his return for a bout two days.


cyclone88 - 6/26/2020 at 08:36 PM

quote:
Boynton Brother returns yet again!
quote:
Geez, the guy's a one man pandemic.


quote:
I've been gone two days. Are you telling me he got bounced again, then came back again, and got bounced, again?
roland needs to put a lock on that IP address.

Came back w/a 4th username but this time when discovered after 3 posts, he admitted it. Says he's Boyton Brother who doesn't want to "bother" Rowland w/changing his username. He seems desperate to get back on this forum.


Jerry - 6/26/2020 at 08:46 PM

quote:
quote:
Boynton Brother returns yet again!
quote:
Geez, the guy's a one man pandemic.


quote:
I've been gone two days. Are you telling me he got bounced again, then came back again, and got bounced, again?
roland needs to put a lock on that IP address.

Came back w/a 4th username but this time when discovered after 3 posts, he admitted it. Says he's Boyton Brother who doesn't want to "bother" Rowland w/changing his username. He seems desperate to get back on this forum.


I guess he needs that psychological testing that he touts as a panacea for bad cops, and for firearms ownership. Which, as we've seen lately, doesn't seem to be so reliable.


Bhawk - 6/26/2020 at 10:50 PM

Photo ID required, but if you donít have one, provisional ballot until SSN and birth certificate are verified.

This issue never dies around here. Where are the documented cases of voter fraud that mandate such a concern of voter identity? Not the one-off, the huge numbers, or even enough thatís been proven to swing an election.

And, if everyone is THAT concerned with the integrity of elections, gotta look past the ID part and look at everything surrounding it. Everything.


Jerry - 6/27/2020 at 01:57 AM

In Ga if your information doesn't check out you're given a provisional ballot, you cast your vote, and if you come in with the corrections to your info, you ballot is cast. If you don't correct your information in the time provided, your ballot is considered "spoiled".

Back to the voter registration and ID cards.
Why can't the different parties make arrangements for the closest DMV or whoever can give out state ID be open on several Saturdays a year and offer to pay for the "inconvenience" of having it open. It would benefit both parties, and show a semblance of bi-partisanship once in a while.
Church vans, school buses, Greyhounds, chartered buses, all could be used to transport to where the ID could be made.
Secondly, mobile units could go into nursing homes, low income areas, high schools, malls, shopping centers (grocery stores would be an excellent choice), anyplace where people gather, and issue the state photo ID.
How hard would it be to set up?


gina - 6/27/2020 at 02:51 AM

quote:
Straightforward question.


Https://www.nypost.com/2020/06/19/stormy-daniels-child-predator-tried-to-ab duct-my-daughter/

The cops would not let her file a complaint because she had an expired license. She had a passport they said it was not valid i.d.

Is there anyone who doesn't know who she is? A sergeant posted on her social media that she can take the passport to DMV and get a license. DMV was closed because of coronavirus.

Can Stormy even vote?


BIGV - 6/27/2020 at 04:02 AM

quote:
Sure as long as the ID is free.


No problem with that as long as it is considered a legitimately recognized from of Identification.


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