Thread: I Call Bullsh!t, or.........does Trump really take Hydrochloriquine?

crazyjoe - 5/19/2020 at 01:17 AM

I say no way is this idiot taking this drug, if so, he is absolutely even dumber, more narcissistic than I thought? I figure it's just a big bunch of horsecrap to keep his numb skulled and rabid followers foaming at the mouth.........joe


2112 - 5/19/2020 at 03:05 AM

I doubt he is taking it. Just a distraction.


cyclone88 - 5/19/2020 at 04:01 AM

He's been obsessed about it for a while now. He desperately wants to prove he's smarter than all the medical experts OR someone in his family has stock in the maker OR he's tested positive. After 3 WH staffers tested positive, I don't believe any test results coming from there.

From media reports, it's not given outside a hospital or a clinical trial except to malaria & lupus patients. There are 1st responders who have COVID19 who are part of clinical trials to see if it's an effective treatment. It's already proven to be ineffective as prevention. Worse, it causes cardiac problems (& death) if someone already has a cardiac condition like Trump does. He didn't actually say his doctor prescribed it.

It's a helluva distraction if he's really taking it. Of course, he could be washing it down w/bleach...


MartinD28 - 5/19/2020 at 12:53 PM

quote:
He didn't actually say his doctor prescribed it.



There was a statement released by the WH doc that was very carefully worded. My guess is that IF Trump IS TAKING and just not another lie or distraction, then Dr. Trump more than likely told the doc what to say in the released statement. See below:

"After numerous discussions he and I had regarding the evidence for and against the use of hydroxychloroquine, we concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweighed the relative risks," physician Sean Connely said.

All of the the legit doctors that I've seen interviewed after this announcemnet criticized this and spoke of the significant dangers. But hey, Dr. Trump knows best.

My concerns are not for Trump because he's going to say or do what he wants to advance a narrative. The concern is more for cult followers or those who would follow the leader walking the plank into shark infested waters.


MarkRamsey - 5/19/2020 at 01:19 PM

President Plump knows best!


kevdab - 5/19/2020 at 01:28 PM

If the war hero said he was taking it, that means he hasn't taken it. Everything that comes out of his mouth, means the opposite.


cyclone88 - 5/19/2020 at 01:42 PM

quote:
There was a statement released by the WH doc that was very carefully worded. My guess is that IF Trump IS TAKING and just not another lie or distraction, then Dr. Trump more than likely told the doc what to say in the released statement. See below:

"After numerous discussions he and I had regarding the evidence for and against the use of hydroxychloroquine, we concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweighed the relative risks," physician Sean Connely said.

All of the the legit doctors that I've seen interviewed after this announcemnet criticized this and spoke of the significant dangers. But hey, Dr. Trump knows best.

My concerns are not for Trump because he's going to say or do what he wants to advance a narrative. The concern is more for cult followers or those who would follow the leader walking the plank into shark infested waters.


In that same statement the doctor also says this is a direct result of Trump's valet testing positive so Trump must not believe COVID19 isn't dangerous or is "like the flu." He's scared.

I'm stunned that a doctor would prescribe it to a man who is over 60, obese, has a pre-existing heart condition, & has been exposed to COVID19. Of course, his doctor is in the navy & Trump is CIC.

Agreed that the message "what's the harm?" is false. Studies have proven it's harmful/fatal when used except as intended. Trump's disciples will do whatever he says. The good news is that they have to have a doctor's prescription so there's a barrier that Trump doesn't have. The bad news is that there was a shortage of the drug for lupus patients when Trump was touting it in March. He & his TV Dr. Oz stopped talking about it when the first reports of deaths & halted trials were released a few weeks ago.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I don't trust this WH to tell the truth about staff testing after 3 staffers were positive. Should anyone test positive it will be announced that person was "working from home" if the results are made public at all.


nebish - 5/19/2020 at 02:20 PM

It's not a distraction, it is just standard operating procedure. Even when there is some good news that Trump should let ride, he steps all over it with some tweet or bonehead comment.

Trump is just doubling down. He's never wrong, he never backs down. This is just him proving that he is right and everyone else is wrong. Only he knows what is best. It's Trump being Trump doing what Trump does saying what Trump says. It is all very normal for this President.

There are soooo many studies and trials still ongoing for the prevention and treatment of this drug related to covid19. NIH's website lists 197 studies for hydroxychloroquine for covid19. Almost 200! To say based on a handful of studies it does this or that or doesn't do this or that is all premature.

Every drug has a laundry list of side effects and precautions. And really, this is what we do in society now. We are inundated with commercials and advertising for prescription drugs, for supplements, for treatments for one ailment, disease, irritation, diagnosis, whatever - we are told "hey this can help you" so immediately people think they know something about their condition and are like "why hasn't my doctor mentioned this?". "Why am I hearing about this for me on TV instead of my doctor's office". The patient thinks they know more than the doctor. Doctors should be recommending drugs to their patients, but that isn't how we are trained now. And if every doctor is an expert, why do people get second or third opinions?

Trump's touting of hydroxychloroquine is a product of where our society is. The patients are empowered to figure out what might work for them first and ask the doctors second. Coupled with word of mouth and anecdotal stories of so-and-so took it and it worked or my friend's cousin's aunt's co-worker's brother took it and saved his life.

Sure some people still look towards the "experts" to tell them what to do and how to do it. But what about when the experts don't all agree, or all the data isn't in to really say one way or the other. Or what about variables that make a study unreliable to apply to other conditions with different variables.

Trump is just another advertisement for another drug for another problem that is so common these days. To me it doesn't mean anything else than any of the throw away ads we see all day long. But Trump sure does love himself some hydroxychloroquine. Wish I watched Laura Ingram last night, she loves herself some hydroxychloroquine too. Her and her medical cabinet.


cyclone88 - 5/19/2020 at 03:16 PM

quote:
There are soooo many studies and trials still ongoing for the prevention and treatment of this drug related to covid19. NIH's website lists 197 studies for hydroxychloroquine for covid19. Almost 200! To say based on a handful of studies it does this or that or doesn't do this or that is all premature.

Yes, big pharma buys a lot of TV ads.

This is different because Trump - who has a devoted disciples who believe everything he says - is putting people at risk. Most everyone knows not to drink bleach when he proposed that but the 2 leading manufacturers re-designed their packaging w/large warning labels not to ingest it. They know Trump's America's #1 Influencer.

It's not too soon to say things about a drug. Clinical trials don't just happen in the US funded by NIH. They're conducted throughout the world, funded privately, & guess what - negative findings or lethal drug trials don't get published. Trump himself latched on to a French article (not a clinical trial) about 20 people - 4 of whom died or stopped taking the drug combination because of side effects. That summary was about a drug cocktail of which one ingredient was hydrochloroquine.

Doctors conducting proper trials in France, Brazil, & Sweden as well as the US have all published reports that the drug is dangerous & sometimes fatal to people w/heart conditions when used as a prophylaxis as Trump says he's doing. Cardiologists all over the world are refusing to prescribe it. So why argue that it's too soon to draw a conclusion?

Do we know how many people drank bleach after Trump talked about it? No, but we know poison control centers were overwhelmed w/calls. Do we know whether hydrochloroquine by itself might work as a treatment? Not yet; it may work on people who already have COVID19. What we do know is that it doesn't work as a prophylaxis & can cause death.

Having a lying president saying "there's no harm" to his disciples is beyond irresponsible. It's Trump saying "give it a try just like I am." He's a conman. A huckster. Remember, TRUMP HAS BEEN EXPOSED. Not all of his disciples have. The only thing that saves his disciples is that doctors - fearing malpractice & wrongful death litigation - won't prescribe it.

Should Trump develop any cardiac symptoms & stop taking the drug, he's not going to announce it. What people will remember is that he touted it & took it himself.

If there was ever a time for the 25th amendment, it's now. The man is off the rails.


MartinD28 - 5/19/2020 at 04:25 PM

quote:
quote:
There are soooo many studies and trials still ongoing for the prevention and treatment of this drug related to covid19. NIH's website lists 197 studies for hydroxychloroquine for covid19. Almost 200! To say based on a handful of studies it does this or that or doesn't do this or that is all premature.

Yes, big pharma buys a lot of TV ads.

This is different because Trump - who has a devoted disciples who believe everything he says - is putting people at risk. Most everyone knows not to drink bleach when he proposed that but the 2 leading manufacturers re-designed their packaging w/large warning labels not to ingest it. They know Trump's America's #1 Influencer.

It's not too soon to say things about a drug. Clinical trials don't just happen in the US funded by NIH. They're conducted throughout the world, funded privately, & guess what - negative findings or lethal drug trials don't get published. Trump himself latched on to a French article (not a clinical trial) about 20 people - 4 of whom died or stopped taking the drug combination because of side effects. That summary was about a drug cocktail of which one ingredient was hydrochloroquine.

Doctors conducting proper trials in France, Brazil, & Sweden as well as the US have all published reports that the drug is dangerous & sometimes fatal to people w/heart conditions when used as a prophylaxis as Trump says he's doing. Cardiologists all over the world are refusing to prescribe it. So why argue that it's too soon to draw a conclusion?

Do we know how many people drank bleach after Trump talked about it? No, but we know poison control centers were overwhelmed w/calls. Do we know whether hydrochloroquine by itself might work as a treatment? Not yet; it may work on people who already have COVID19. What we do know is that it doesn't work as a prophylaxis & can cause death.

Having a lying president saying "there's no harm" to his disciples is beyond irresponsible. It's Trump saying "give it a try just like I am." He's a conman. A huckster. Remember, TRUMP HAS BEEN EXPOSED. Not all of his disciples have. The only thing that saves his disciples is that doctors - fearing malpractice & wrongful death litigation - won't prescribe it.

Should Trump develop any cardiac symptoms & stop taking the drug, he's not going to announce it. What people will remember is that he touted it & took it himself.

If there was ever a time for the 25th amendment, it's now. The man is off the rails.


Great post, cyclone. Full of good info & to the point!


rmack - 5/19/2020 at 07:59 PM

It's bullish!t. He's not taking it.


gina - 5/19/2020 at 08:10 PM

I think he is taking it. He really believes it works. I don't think it works, the virus was designed like Sars with some HIV1 material tweaked into it. There is no malaria in it.


MartinD28 - 5/19/2020 at 11:53 PM

Yesterday over on State Run TV, even Neil Cavuto argued against Dr. Trump's assertions. You know something is going badly for Trump when FOX TV counters his position and advises against it.


https://twitter.com/i/status/1262484050964631557


MartinD28 - 5/19/2020 at 11:59 PM

quote:
I think he is taking it. He really believes it works. I don't think it works, the virus was designed like Sars with some HIV1 material tweaked into it. There is no malaria in it.




After all these years - a post from Gina I can agree with.

If you look at Trump's behavior in the last couple weeks, he's even more unhinged than previoulsy. I'm convinced it's his cocktail of hydrochloroquine and the ajax he injected into himself. The racoon look around his eyes is gone, but that behavior...off the charts. Can only imagine what surprise he gifts us tomorrow.


cyclone88 - 5/20/2020 at 12:18 AM

quote:
Yesterday over on State Run TV, even Neil Cavuto argued against Dr. Trump's assertions. You know something is going badly for Trump when FOX TV counters his position and advises against it.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1262484050964631557


"Based on the VA study of a vulnerable population hospitalized with the disease, they died. THIS WILL KILL YOU." Can't get any stronger than that.

I think Cavuto made this particularly strong statement to counteract Trump saying it's harmless. It's dangerous to a public taking it as a prophylaxis because their idol Trump does. Trump has the benefit of 24/7 monitoring. It's alarming not only to the American public, US health professionals, but foreign leaders as well. No one is wild about POTUS taking an extremely risky drug.

Agree w/Gina that he's taking it & not just saying he is. He was shocked that his valet tested positive & insisted on getting this drug knowing he'd been exposed to COVID19. The second he shows any cardiac problems, his doctor will discontinue it & the public won't be told.

I'm mystified as to why he's fixated on this particular drug other than someone convinced him it's a miracle drug & he wants to prove he's smarter than all the doctors when it works. He believes his own hype. It doesn't seem to occur to him that it might not work & he could end up on a vent in ICU. Hubris.


cyclone88 - 5/20/2020 at 12:30 AM

quote:
If you look at Trump's behavior in the last couple weeks, he's even more unhinged than previoulsy. I'm convinced it's his cocktail of hydrochloroquine and the ajax he injected into himself. The racoon look around his eyes is gone, but that behavior...off the charts. Can only imagine what surprise he gifts us tomorrow.



The scary part is that hallucinations & confusion are symptoms of the virus AND side effects of the drug. Other drug side effects include paranoia & agitation. How can anyone tell if it's the normal Trump or a drug effect since he exhibits 3 of the 4 all the time? I also think he sounds more hoarse than usual & his voice has gone up about 1/2 an octave - signs of a respiratory illness, but I don't pretend to be a doctor.

At least Pence isn't taking it. Still, he chair the NASA meeting today & not a single person in the room wore a mask.


nebish - 5/20/2020 at 02:59 AM

quote:
What we do know is that it doesn't work as a prophylaxis & can cause death.



There trials ongoing for hydroxychloroquine as prophylaxis (Henry Ford Health Detroit, Perelman School of Medicine University Pennsylvania, Hospital Clinic of Barcelona, Tunisia military health professionals are the ones that showed up on page 1 of a google search, I assume there are more listed on additional pages).

Has there been some trials already completed revealing it didn't work as a preventative?


nebish - 5/20/2020 at 03:01 AM

Regarding Cavuto, he's the best thing Fox News has going. I have always said for years now that the 4:00 hour on Fox is pretty good subjective news from Neil. Many also liked Shep at 3, but Neil at 4 has always been a favorite of mine. He's not a lock-step Republican spokesperson.


OriginalGoober - 5/20/2020 at 03:04 AM

Cavutos show is a milque-toast business recap and rarely offers a politcal side or agenda. Its a corporate talking head like a corporate HR department head explaining the days events being careful to not upset the people who pay his salary.


nebish - 5/20/2020 at 03:52 AM

Jury still out?

The more you look the more you see active trials to study prophylaxis:

quote:

From the existing data, which need validation in a trial, it looks like hydroxychloroquine could be a good agent for prophylaxis. It actually blocks the entry of the virus into the cell, so the hypothesis makes a lot of sense: if you have the drug in your system and you get exposed, you won’t let the virus get into your cells and you won’t get onset of disease. That is what the trials are aimed at showing.
.
.
.
The second study is investigating pre-exposure prophylaxis, just like what we do for HIV — the equivalent of PrEP but for coronavirus. This would be for highly at-risk individuals: front-line healthcare workers, first responders and others who work in situations where they’re coming in contact with people.

This trial will be done by the University of Oxford and is being funded by Wellcome through the Accelerator. It will be a much longer study — two years.

https://www.gatesfoundation.org/TheOptimist/Articles/coronavirus-interview- trevor-mundel-drug-trials


cyclone88 - 5/20/2020 at 12:58 PM

quote:
There trials ongoing for hydroxychloroquine as prophylaxis (Henry Ford Health Detroit, Perelman School of Medicine University Pennsylvania, Hospital Clinic of Barcelona, Tunisia military health professionals are the ones that showed up on page 1 of a google search, I assume there are more listed on additional pages).

Has there been some trials already completed revealing it didn't work as a preventative?

You're missing the point that the drug KILLS people when used for something other than malaria & lupus. Trials ARE HALTED when lethal side effects are significant & a high number of patients die.

Otherwise, human drug trials take years - 18 to 24 months at least. I know, I've run them for 20 years. Hydroxychlorquine trials have been HALTED because patients developed life-threatening cardiac problems. The largest were in Brazil. Reports of deadly cardiac side effects were published in both The Lancet & JAMA in April 2020. On 4/22, Dr. Bright was fired for daring to say the Trump administration was pushing pursuit of hydroxychloroquine - as a vaccine, prophylaxis, treatment - rather than other drugs w/preliminary findings that were far more promising & he refused.

Perhaps you should read Dr. Bright's testimony to the Senate committee earlier in the week for further enlightenment. I don't understand your persistence in proving that hydroxychloroquine is really Trump's "miracle drug." You don't have to wait for trials to be finished to know that when a drug is killing patients when used for something other than its intended use & it's not something to spend $ on when there are drugs w/preliminary findings are effective & aren't killing anyone. Worse, Trump has the cardiac condition that hydroxychlorquine causes & exacerbates until it kills patients. Do you need a study to understand that's not a great idea for the POTUS? Especially one that already has 2 strikes against him - age & obesity?

nebish, you're smarter than this. There is absolutely nothing other than Trump's "good feeling" that indicates this drug is effective for COVID19 in any way & there is science that says it can be fatal when used off-label.


Brendan - 5/20/2020 at 01:15 PM

quote:
Cavutos show is a milque-toast business recap and rarely offers a politcal side or agenda.


Some might call that....news.


nebish - 5/20/2020 at 01:27 PM

Yes, some drugs can kill people. I am aware of warnings and side effects. Hydroxychloroquine is not the first or only prescription drug that might have a lethal effect on a person taking said drug as prescribed or off label.

Some trials may have been stopped. Some trials are on going. Or have all the preventative studies been halted and I missed that? If the other trials have not been halted, why haven't they if the drug is so deadly? People dying when using this drug as a prophylactic, why would any other trials still be ongoing then, why haven't all the trials been stopped, are you saying they have?

The only thing I am interested in doing is stating that not all the facts are in on the use of this drug. Trump can take it, Trump can not take it. Trump can lie about taking it. My position and postings has nothing to do with Trump. It might work, it might not work. Some people might die, it might help some people. Some people might have died without it, some people might have only died due to taking it.

You can take the information to date as the be all end all, I take a more open look that more information and data is yet to come. I didn't say any results would be in tomorrow or next week or next month. I'm just trying to say that more results on the effectiveness of this drug for different uses are yet to come. I don't know what they will all yield. I don't think anyone should suggest they know what all the results of the pending trials will yield, good, bad or indifferent.


nebish - 5/20/2020 at 01:40 PM

You mentioned The Lancet, this article from April 17 states it might have some prophylaxis use, they suggest studies:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30296-6/ fulltext


MartinD28 - 5/20/2020 at 01:41 PM

When questioned about hydrochloriquine for details, his response was he's been "hearing really good things". He makes these genralizations all the time. Who knows if there is any truth to his paint brush strokes. By all means - "hearing really good things" is a great reason for Dr. Trump to take the drug and try to sell the public.


Rusty - 5/20/2020 at 01:49 PM

I am reminded of the comedic line, "the operation was a success but the patient died". Hydrochloriquine just might kill ya - but then you won't get the virus. I can see where some might declare victory.


cyclone88 - 5/20/2020 at 02:13 PM

quote:
You can take the information to date as the be all end all, I take a more open look that more information and data is yet to come. I didn't say any results would be in tomorrow or next week or next month. I'm just trying to say that more results on the effectiveness of this drug for different uses are yet to come. I don't know what they will all yield. I don't think anyone should suggest they know what all the results of the pending trials will yield, good, bad or indifferent.


As professional who works in this field, I consider data we know to date. Hydroxychlorquine has not proven effective as anything vis a vis COVID19 but it has definitely been reported to cause cardiac problems & fatalities. Fact. It is a high risk thing for Trump as POTUS to do. First & foremost, it is dangerous to his health. Further, his use of it despite all medical evidence to the contrary confuses the American public & unsettles other world leaders. Between that & his bleach comment, he sounds irresponsible at best & unhinged at worst.

I can't speak to every study you find on google, but I can say there are federal laws that govern human research trials from funding to informed consent by the participants to ethical guidelines to liability to oversight to factors that must be reported & when a trial must be ended. There are equivalents in most other countries. Heads roll when a non-starter is allowed to continue past the checkpoint of likelihood of success.

The most important research issues for COVID19 are a vaccine, antibody tests, & treatment(s). Right now, we have nothing - no more than when this started. We're on a tight timeframe. The logical thing to do is follow the courses that are the most promising.

You state the obvious that in the future, vaccines & drugs may be developed that address COVID19. Or there may not; there still isn't a vaccine for HIV even though there is a non-lethal prophylaxis that is sometimes effective. Obviously, researchers & drug manufacturers make their living study prevention & treatments for every disease on the planet. What's your point? You're not going to say you don't know the results of every trial for every drug in the world? Has anyone ask you to do so? No one else - especially those who allocate resources to researchers - should rank probabilities of success for COVDI19 as of today when decisions have to be made?

Intentionally or not, you sound like a Trump apologist.


nebish - 5/20/2020 at 02:24 PM

You said:

quote:
What we do know is that it doesn't work as a prophylaxis


I'm saying we don't know.

How do you know so confidently to put it in bold?


cyclone88 - 5/20/2020 at 02:25 PM

quote:
When questioned about hydrochloriquine for details, his response was he's been "hearing really good things". He makes these genralizations all the time. Who knows if there is any truth to his paint brush strokes. By all means - "hearing really good things" is a great reason for Dr. Trump to take the drug and try to sell the public.


Yes, he's been saying "hearing really good things" since he read the French anecdotes about 20 people which the doctor who wrote it has said has no scientific value. It was really more a journal of his patients. The other favorite line is "I've got a really good feeling."

He's been exposed. Maybe he genuinely believes in the drug & is willing to risk making his heart condition worse. I still think he or one of his handlers has a stake in the manufacturer. Trump doesn't do anything that doesn't feed his ego or offshore bank account.


cyclone88 - 5/20/2020 at 02:28 PM

quote:
You said:

quote:
What we do know is that it doesn't work as a prophylaxis


I'm saying we don't know.

How do you know so confidently to put it in bold?


This is getting tiresome & insulting.

Rusty answered your question - it worked but it killed the patient.


nebish - 5/20/2020 at 02:36 PM

How many people died where hydroxychloroquine was used in a study for prophylaxis? How do you know so boldly it doesn't work for prophylaxis use?

I am providing evidence we don't yet know the effectiveness of this drug for that use because studies are ongoing.

If you make such a bold definitive statement please be prepared to back it up...or else it will grow tiresome for you.


BrerRabbit - 5/20/2020 at 05:09 PM

So now they are using malaria pills for prophlactics? Now ive heard it all


tbomike - 5/20/2020 at 05:43 PM


President Trump disclosed that he was taking hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) with zinc to protect himself against COVID-19—with the approval of his physicians. Although some in the media may find this startling or concerning, the Association of American Physicians & Surgeons (AAPS) states that thousands and probably millions of people worldwide are doing likewise.

In the U.S., however, patients and physicians who wish to use this long-approved drug, taken safely by 100 million patients over 70 years, are running into barriers set up by the FDA, governors, and state bureaucracies. Among the reports brought to the attention of AAPS is that of a family physician who cannot obtain HCQ for his nursing-home patients.

“It is perfectly legal for physicians to prescribe an approved drug for a newly discovered indication, and very frequently done,” states AAPS. “It is unprecedented for licensure boards to threaten pharmacists who dispense or physicians who prescribe ‘off-label.’”

“Basic science research from 15 years ago provides solid reason to expect that HCQ could be effective early in COVID-19, preventing hospitalization and death, and clinical experience from the U.S. and around the globe bears this out,” states AAPS. “It is not likely to work well in seriously sick patients, the only ones who can get it under the FDA’s emergency use authorization (EUA).”

In late April, the FDA issued a new special warning about potential heart problems from use of HCQ in COVID-19—which advises patients with other conditions to continue taking it because benefits exceed the risks.

“The benefit of potentially preventing thousands of hospitalizations and deaths vastly exceeds the risks of HCQ, which has an outstanding safety record,” states AAPS. “And if President Trump’s doctor can prescribe it, why can’t yours?”

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) has represented physicians of all specialties in all states since 1943. The AAPS motto is omnia pro aegroto, meaning everything for the patient.


tbomike - 5/20/2020 at 05:45 PM

Turkish company develops hydroxychloroquine drug
Hydroxychloroquine is being used by doctors to treat COVID-19 symptoms

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkey/turkish-company-develops-hydroxychloroquine -drug/1834022



tbomike - 5/20/2020 at 05:46 PM

French doctors renew bid to clear HCQ to treat Covid-19 ahead of lockdown exit

http://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200505-french-doctors-renew-push-to-clear-mal aria-drug-hydroxychloroquine-to-secure-covid-19-lockdown-exit


tbomike - 5/20/2020 at 06:02 PM

So I think Trump is a moron but I have included the 3 articles above to ask how did this drug discussion become all about Trump? Amd to show I don't have any agenda here beyond asking that question here is an article why New York doctors have moved away from using it.

from the article linked below.

It wasn’t just Trump: Governor Andrew Cuomo also expressed optimism about hydroxychloroquine’s potential. But studies, including one that looked at 600 patients in the New York City area, were inconclusive.

“Basically it was not seen as a positive. Not seen as a negative. And didn’t really have much of an effect on the recovery rate,” Cuomo said of the results during a CNN town hall on April 23.

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/05/07/hospitals-in-nyc-aband on-hydroxychloroquine-treatment-touted-by-trump-


pops42 - 5/20/2020 at 06:13 PM

hopefully this will kill him, could we be that lucky?.


tbomike - 5/20/2020 at 06:19 PM

The drug has been around for decades. It is not going to kill Trump.


crazyjoe - 5/20/2020 at 06:49 PM

My buddies wife was put on it for lupus, caused a serious Cardiac Arythmia in her?.........joe


stormyrider - 5/20/2020 at 08:04 PM

I have a little knowledge here in that when I am not posting on message boards, my day job is a cardiologist.

Chloroquine can cause changes in the EKG that can lead to lethal arrhythmias. People taking it should have ekgs monitored on a semi regular basis. If they are taking 2 drugs that cause the same thing, for example azithromycin, the drug that was initially used with chloroquin, then the risks are higher. Other drugs or other conditions can increase the risk.

Is it a dangerous drug? In the grand scheme of things, when given properly, no. Certain situations are riskier than others and more caution is required.

Have people died from it? yes

Should Trump be taking it? Studies are being done to see what the benefit of it is. Right now, it shouldn't be given for covid 19 unless the patient is part of a clinical trial.

Personally, I don't give a **** if he is taking it. I don't think he, or anyone, should be espousing it publicly because we just don't know. That's not a political statement (discolsure - I hate him) but we just can't state one way or the other if there is a benefit. The initial report was promising, later data less so. There have been MANY times where initial data looked good, but when put to the proper test it didn't pan out. We don't know. It's not benign.

[Edited on 5/20/2020 by stormyrider]


tbomike - 5/20/2020 at 08:11 PM

quote:
I have a little knowledge here in that when I am not posting on message boards, my day job is a cardiologist.

Chloroquine can cause changes in the EKG that can lead to lethal arrhythmias. People taking it should have ekgs monitored on a semi regular basis. If they are taking 2 drugs that cause the same thing, for example azithromycin, the drug that was initially used with chloroquin, then the risks are higher. Other drugs or other conditions can increase the risk.

Is it a dangerous drug? In the grand scheme of things, when given properly, no. Certain situations are riskier than others and more caution is required.

Have people died from it? yes

Should Trump be taking it? Studies are being done to see what the benefit of it is. Right now, it shouldn't be given for covid 19 unless the patient is part of a clinical trial.

Personally, I don't give a **** if he is taking it. I don't think he, or anyone, should be espousing it publicly because we just don't know. That's not a political statement (discolsure - I hate him) but we just can't state one way or the other if there is a benefit. The initial report was promising, later data less so. There have been MANY times where initial data looked good, but when put to the proper test it didn't pan out. We don't know. It's not benign.

[Edited on 5/20/2020 by stormyrider]


I get all that and agree ( heck we can even take Trump's name out entirely ) that no President should be advocating for a particular drug in this way. Do you agree though that it is unfortunate that this drug is now largely being discussed only though a filter of Trimp says blah blah? There are clearly doctors who are not crazy quacks who do still think this is useful in early treatment of covid patients.


BrerRabbit - 5/20/2020 at 08:12 PM

^ @stormyrider . Kind of a buzzkill when once every few years someone posts and actually knows what they are talking about. Kills the whole Bedlam idiot say whatever the hell BS we want feel of the place that makes it so much fun.

[Edited on 5/20/2020 by BrerRabbit]


2112 - 5/20/2020 at 08:14 PM

It's becoming more and more obvious that this whole thing is an elaborate hoex by Trump to sell Hydrochloiriqine.


BrerRabbit - 5/20/2020 at 08:18 PM

Now we are talking. Damn, was making me nervous there for a sec - people actually making sense.


stormyrider - 5/20/2020 at 08:36 PM

quote:
quote:
I have a little knowledge here in that when I am not posting on message boards, my day job is a cardiologist.

Chloroquine can cause changes in the EKG that can lead to lethal arrhythmias. People taking it should have ekgs monitored on a semi regular basis. If they are taking 2 drugs that cause the same thing, for example azithromycin, the drug that was initially used with chloroquin, then the risks are higher. Other drugs or other conditions can increase the risk.

Is it a dangerous drug? In the grand scheme of things, when given properly, no. Certain situations are riskier than others and more caution is required.

Have people died from it? yes

Should Trump be taking it? Studies are being done to see what the benefit of it is. Right now, it shouldn't be given for covid 19 unless the patient is part of a clinical trial.

Personally, I don't give a **** if he is taking it. I don't think he, or anyone, should be espousing it publicly because we just don't know. That's not a political statement (discolsure - I hate him) but we just can't state one way or the other if there is a benefit. The initial report was promising, later data less so. There have been MANY times where initial data looked good, but when put to the proper test it didn't pan out. We don't know. It's not benign.

[Edited on 5/20/2020 by stormyrider]


I get all that and agree ( heck we can even take Trump's name out entirely ) that no President should be advocating for a particular drug in this way. Do you agree though that it is unfortunate that this drug is now largely being discussed only though a filter of Trimp says blah blah? There are clearly doctors who are not crazy quacks who do still think this is useful in early treatment of covid patients.


agree - the conversation has been taken to the wrong place. imo that's partlu Trumps fault, but partly all of us and the media.
and yes, I'm sure there are well intentioned docs who are prescibing it. I'm not being critical of them per se.
There was a huge rush on the drug when this first hit the news. Everyone wanted it, so people like crazyjoe's wife who have been on it and needed it couldn't get it.
The Gov of NH actually prohibited docs from prescribing it to new patients who weren't in a trial.


2112 - 5/20/2020 at 08:50 PM

quote:

The Gov of NH actually prohibited docs from prescribing it to new patients who weren't in a trial.


That doesn't seem fair. They are going to make Trump declare bankruptcy again.


cyclone88 - 5/20/2020 at 10:09 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
I have a little knowledge here in that when I am not posting on message boards, my day job is a cardiologist.

Chloroquine can cause changes in the EKG that can lead to lethal arrhythmias. People taking it should have ekgs monitored on a semi regular basis. If they are taking 2 drugs that cause the same thing, for example azithromycin, the drug that was initially used with chloroquin, then the risks are higher. Other drugs or other conditions can increase the risk.

Is it a dangerous drug? In the grand scheme of things, when given properly, no. Certain situations are riskier than others and more caution is required.

Have people died from it? yes

Should Trump be taking it? Studies are being done to see what the benefit of it is. Right now, it shouldn't be given for covid 19 unless the patient is part of a clinical trial.

Personally, I don't give a **** if he is taking it. I don't think he, or anyone, should be espousing it publicly because we just don't know. That's not a political statement (discolsure - I hate him) but we just can't state one way or the other if there is a benefit. The initial report was promising, later data less so. There have been MANY times where initial data looked good, but when put to the proper test it didn't pan out. We don't know. It's not benign.

[Edited on 5/20/2020 by stormyrider]


I get all that and agree ( heck we can even take Trump's name out entirely ) that no President should be advocating for a particular drug in this way. Do you agree though that it is unfortunate that this drug is now largely being discussed only though a filter of Trimp says blah blah? There are clearly doctors who are not crazy quacks who do still think this is useful in early treatment of covid patients.


agree - the conversation has been taken to the wrong place. imo that's partlu Trumps fault, but partly all of us and the media.
and yes, I'm sure there are well intentioned docs who are prescibing it. I'm not being critical of them per se.
There was a huge rush on the drug when this first hit the news. Everyone wanted it, so people like crazyjoe's wife who have been on it and needed it couldn't get it.
The Gov of NH actually prohibited docs from prescribing it to new patients who weren't in a trial.


Thank you for professional perspective. My contention is that no one would know about the drug except lupus & malaria pts were it not for Trump & his TV Dr Oz flogging it based on Trump's "good feeling."

My day job for the past 20 years as legal counsel includes supervising drug trials at 4 Manhattan hospitals, 2 in the Bronx, selected DOD hospitals & sitting on the IRBs for human research trials. I know what stops trials, I know what gets shredded, & I know what #s get "massaged." So, I'm more cynical & blunt that a physician.

In this case, the best that can be said about it is exactly what you said - "it's not benign."

After Dr. Bright was fired for not throwing $ at the drug & the 1st halted trial due to cardiac complications/deaths in April, it (& Dr. Oz) disappeared from Fox news. Other more promising drugs were given more research money & attention.The public heard nothing more until Trump announced he was taking it - after his exposure to COVID19 through his valet - & Dr. Bright's whistleblower testimony on the same day.

I was stunned that a man who has 3 categories of COVID19 risk - age, obesity, cardiac arrhythmia - would be prescribed the drug. His doctor - who may or may not be a cardiologist - released the statement that he & Trump had the customary risk/benefit analysis discussion.

As POTUS, Trump will be closely monitored. No one is concerned he'll die from the drug. What I believe to be the more likely outcome is that Trump's arrhythmia will worsen & he'll quietly stop taking the drug. As you said, we know that it shouldn't be given to people for COVID19 outside of a hospital or clinical trial.

I despise Trump going back to his alleged heydays in the 1980s in NYC. However, I don't think the US should have both a Prez & a VP sick w/COVID19. I've never understood why the two weren't separated from Day 1, why masks weren't mandatory in the WH, & why Pence's promise to wear a mask lasted 2 days. Both seem cavalier even after exposure.

The topic of this thread is whether Trump is really taking the drug or is it puffery. [I still don't understand Trump's fixation on the drug - & hence the puffery - unless he or his friends have a monetary interest in its success.] I found it alarming that the POTUS w/all his risk factors would take an at best "not benign" & at worst, potentially lethal drug knowing full well that what he does is copied by his MAGA supporters. He knows how influential he is to his supporters & the shortage of the drug for lupus pts is an example of that.

I don't think it's a good idea for the 2 leaders of the US to be at risk for COVID19 as a general principle. What I find egregious is his "what's the harm?" suggestion to his supporters when that most certainly is not the case.


MarkRamsey - 5/20/2020 at 11:33 PM

"What I find egregious is his "what's the harm?" suggestion to his supporters when that most certainly is not the case."

My PCP is also one of my best friends so I texted him (jokingly) as to whether I should start taking the stuff. His reply in all caps: HELL NO!!! He then proceeded into a bunch of DocTalk about cardiac stuff and I and a couple others (group text) had to tell him to ease up. Just kidding.


tbomike - 5/21/2020 at 01:43 PM

40,000 medical workers to start taking it in the UK. Oxford study. A bunch of quacks.

UK healthcare workers begin COVID-19 hydroxychloroquine trial

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/uk-healthcare-workers-begin-co vid-19-hydroxychloroquine-trial/ar-BB14pbbA?li=BBnb7Kz


BrerRabbit - 5/21/2020 at 03:22 PM

^ Sounds like a solid unbiased study. Looking forward to the results.


MarkRamsey - 5/22/2020 at 02:33 PM

"We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19."


Just released from Lancet. But Dr. Trump has "a feeling".


pops42 - 5/22/2020 at 05:19 PM

quote:
"We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19."


Just released from Lancet. But Dr. Trump has "a feeling".
He has no "feeling" between his ears.


2112 - 5/23/2020 at 06:29 AM

I changed my mind. I think he is taking it and it has already fried his brain more than usual:

https://youtu.be/6gJdf7LyGpg


crazyjoe - 5/23/2020 at 04:25 PM

Those "feelings" he gets is what happens when them 2 brain cells he has bouncing around in his skull randomly collide, this causes a little spark, like a mini nuclear fusion, it's not quite a big enough explosion to generate any useful thought, but it does cause him to blurt out jumbled, nonsensical and downright idiotic things he hears from Limbaugh, Hannity and Jones, crazy situation???..............joe


cyclone88 - 5/25/2020 at 09:16 PM

So, Trump announces he "just finished" taking hydroxychlorquine coincidentally when the WHO announced it's temporary suspension of its trials due to safety concerns.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/who-temporarily-halts-trial-hydroxychlor oquine-over-safety-concerns-n1214341

"The steering committee met over the weekend and decided that in the light of this uncertainty, that we should be proactive, err on the side of caution, and suspend enrollment, temporarily, into the hydroxychloroquine arm," WHO's chief scientist said.




https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-he-s-no-longer-tak ing-hydroxychloroquine-n1214301

And since Trump has offered nothing other than a vaguely worded letter from the WH physician, there's no reason given for him to stop taking it. He'd decided 14 days was the time he "had a good feeling about" using it? In clinical trials for prophylaxis use once a person has been exposed, most researchers are testing the drug to be given at various intervals over 3-5 days. Nothing about 14 days being the magic #. Could it be that he actually had some cardiac symptoms that suggested he should stop? Certainly, he didn't believe anything coming out of WHO.



BrerRabbit - 5/25/2020 at 10:36 PM


cyclone88 - 5/26/2020 at 12:02 AM

^ I'll bet there's a trademark pending for that Trump Snake Oil Company label. Perfect.


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