Thread: Baltimore votes down armed officers, changed minds

Jerry - 11/23/2019 at 04:07 AM

Baltimore. Not only are the schools designated as a "gun free zone", but Baltimore school board has voted unanimously to disarm the school police officers while the kids are in school.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/baltimore-school-board-armed-officers

[Edited on 1/29/2020 by Jerry]


Stephen - 11/23/2019 at 05:18 AM

If the board’s unanimous vote came in concert w/input from & approval of the Baltimore PD’s school officers, the student councils of the various schools, PTA groups etc - it could work out

if the vote however came over objections....that prediction might happen - I for one applaud it, it’s a start to try something different after presumably having been discussed by all concerned

It would be a great thing if at the end of the school year it proved to be a good call & what people wanted all along


BIGV - 11/23/2019 at 05:36 AM

>>>>>........the next school where there is a kid who has shi^^y parents, access to a gun and an excuse for his behavior....


Skydog32103 - 11/23/2019 at 01:07 PM

quote:
a kid who has shi^^y parents, access to a gun and an excuse for his behavior....


You post quite a bit about sh*tty parents and excuses. Seems to be on your mind these days. How is your relationships with your parents?


Skydog32103 - 11/23/2019 at 01:14 PM

quote:
Not only are the schools designated as a "gun free zone", but Baltimore school board has voted unanimously to disarm the school police officers while the kids are in school.


The absence of guns is a reason why a school will be shot up? Somebody wants attention today.


Stephen - 11/23/2019 at 01:17 PM

What the heck - he was participating in the discussion, what does his relationship w/his parents have to do w/it


Jerry - 11/23/2019 at 02:41 PM

quote:
If the board’s unanimous vote came in concert w/input from & approval of the Baltimore PD’s school officers, the student councils of the various schools, PTA groups etc - it could work out

if the vote however came over objections....that prediction might happen - I for one applaud it, it’s a start to try something different after presumably having been discussed by all concerned

It would be a great thing if at the end of the school year it proved to be a good call & what people wanted all along


Stephen, you didn't read the article, did you?
The school police officers wanted it, some parents want it. A group of students disrupted the meeting with chants and different demands from the school.
The students seem to be more against police officers in the school than anything else.

Here's an article, with video, that gives a little better idea of what went on at the meeting.

https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2019/01/22/baltimore-city-school-board-votes -10-0-opposing-bill-to-arm-officers-in-schools/


Stephen - 11/23/2019 at 02:59 PM

Right, read it after posting, saw the students disrupted the meeting - should’ve read it first - yes mayb police presence in schools in the first place causes tension


pops42 - 11/23/2019 at 07:20 PM

I predict Florida or texas.


BIGV - 11/24/2019 at 12:49 AM

quote:
How is your relationships with your parents?


Haha, nice grammar


Jerry - 11/24/2019 at 01:49 AM

quote:
The psychotic rampage massacres are mostly a white suburban phenomenon. Inner city black gun problems are generally extracurricular and gang-related, the kids with guns aren't in school.
Baltimore schools will be fine - it is their streets they need to work on.


Not all Baltimore schools are located in the inner city, or majority black.

Note: to keep everything straight, the vote was to allow offices to carry firearms while during school hours when students are present. All other hours, they are armed. This has been the scenario for several years.
The proposal was put forth because when is a shooting likely to happen, not before or after school, but when the students are there.
The kids are not protected when they are in school, but the buildings are protected when they are empty.


Fretsman - 11/24/2019 at 03:31 AM

I'm praying we're done, No More, Hopefully gone the way of the Tide Pod Challenge.


StratDal - 11/24/2019 at 04:50 PM

What a horrible theme for a thread. Disappointing.


BrerRabbit - 11/24/2019 at 05:42 PM

quote:
What a horrible theme for a thread. Disappointing.


Most troubling. And disturbing to realize that some folks would now like to see a Baltimore school suffer an episode, to justify their position.

Thanks for the criticism - I am deleting my posts, my part in the bad karma being generated here.

It is not just this thread - the motive for every shooting thread here is gun politics, mostly gun promotion. No point in topping them any more. Time to stop dumping this garbage out to the universe. This is my last massacre post.



[Edited on 11/24/2019 by BrerRabbit]


gina - 11/24/2019 at 08:24 PM

quote:
quote:
a kid who has shi^^y parents, access to a gun and an excuse for his behavior....


You post quite a bit about sh*tty parents and excuses. Seems to be on your mind these days. How is your relationships with your parents?


Are you auditioning for the Rush Limbaugh show, or Jerry Springer perhaps? Jerry has a right to his opinion, and if he is right will you apologize?

[Edited on 11/24/2019 by gina]


Jerry - 11/24/2019 at 11:00 PM

quote:
quote:
What a horrible theme for a thread. Disappointing.


Most troubling. And disturbing to realize that some folks would now like to see a Baltimore school suffer an episode, to justify their position.

Thanks for the criticism - I am deleting my posts, my part in the bad karma being generated here.

It is not just this thread - the motive for every shooting thread here is gun politics, mostly gun promotion. No point in topping them any more. Time to stop dumping this garbage out to the universe. This is my last massacre post.



[Edited on 11/24/2019 by BrerRabbit]


I don't hope for, or want, any school, business, or church to have an "active shooter" incident. Like Fretsman, I hope we never see another one.

Brer, I wouldn't have taken up the bet anyway, since I hope i'm wrong.

BUT, having said that, the publicity that the Baltimore school system has gotten that they are the ONLY school system in Maryland that does not have armed officers when the children are present does open the possibility an incident in the near future.

Gina, thanks for the support, but they weren't responding to my posts.


pops42 - 11/25/2019 at 12:54 AM

When the response is: "more guns", "prayers for the victims", it will only get worse unfortunately.


Skydog32103 - 11/25/2019 at 02:52 PM

quote:
Are you auditioning for the Rush Limbaugh show, or Jerry Springer perhaps? Jerry has a right to his opinion, and if he is right will you apologize?


Gina, how is your relationship with your parents?


Skydog32103 - 11/25/2019 at 02:58 PM

quote:
BUT, having said that, the publicity that the Baltimore school system has gotten that they are the ONLY school system in Maryland that does not have armed officers when the children are present does open the possibility an incident in the near future.


"open the possibility"? Most schools don't have armed officers, and people know this already. What does the news story have to do with anything?





[Edited on 11/25/2019 by Skydog32103]


Jerry - 11/25/2019 at 03:52 PM

quote:
quote:
BUT, having said that, the publicity that the Baltimore school system has gotten that they are the ONLY school system in Maryland that does not have armed officers when the children are present does open the possibility an incident in the near future.


"open the possibility"? Most schools don't have armed officers, and people know this already. What does the news story have to do with anything?

[Edited on 11/25/2019 by Skydog32103]



Seems like the Baltimore school board changed their minds after a relative of a student came to Frederick Douglass High School and shot a special education assistant.

This happened about two weeks after the decision not to allow officers to carry during school hours was made.

baltimoresun.com/education/bs-md-ci-school-board-police-vote-20190226-story .html

Skydog32103, I haven't come across any school systems that don't have armed officers at the schools.

Which ones do you know of that don't?


Stephen - 11/25/2019 at 04:23 PM

It’s a combustible trap alright - “both sides stridently believe” in their point of view of a disagreement involving guns & their kids’ safety

“It would be nice if we lived in a world where we didn’t need guns at all, but that’s not the reality in Baltimore City” -
....or anywhere else in the world


Skydog32103 - 11/25/2019 at 04:29 PM

quote:
Skydog32103, I haven't come across any school systems that don't have armed officers at the schools.

Which ones do you know of that don't?


Who cares which ones....what does the publicity of a news story have to do with whether a school shooting will happen in that area? Are you suggesting that an armed officer at a school is a deterrent? We've already seen at least one instance where the armed officer did absolutely nothing. Even if he went into the building, several children would've been dead already, so what is the point?

I'm not opposed to having armed guards at schools, but first priority ought to be keeping guns out of the hands of those who aren't mentally competent, and force them to resort to the difficulty and risk of the black market, rather than hand them an AR-15 just because they turn 18. Only an idiot would hand over such a dangerous object to a teenager in this day and age, without any vetting process in place. The excuses I hear that object to better vetting is just a bunch of nonsense to me, sorry.


Jerry - 11/25/2019 at 09:30 PM

quote:
quote:
Skydog32103, I haven't come across any school systems that don't have armed officers at the schools.

Which ones do you know of that don't?


Who cares which ones....what does the publicity of a news story have to do with whether a school shooting will happen in that area? Are you suggesting that an armed officer at a school is a deterrent? We've already seen at least one instance where the armed officer did absolutely nothing. Even if he went into the building, several children would've been dead already, so what is the point?

I'm not opposed to having armed guards at schools, but first priority ought to be keeping guns out of the hands of those who aren't mentally competent, and force them to resort to the difficulty and risk of the black market, rather than hand them an AR-15 just because they turn 18. Only an idiot would hand over such a dangerous object to a teenager in this day and age, without any vetting process in place. The excuses I hear that object to better vetting is just a bunch of nonsense to me, sorry.



1) Who told you that you can purchase an AR-15 at age 18? You can only purchase an AR-15 when you turn 21. Federal Law.

2) Who cares which ones? You said many schools don't have armed officers on site, so naturally I asked you which ones they are since you seem to be knowledgeable of that.

3) Yes, the Parkland officer, Scot Peterson, did remain outside and advised other leos not to come close to the building. Are you saying all officers are like him?

4) On site armed officers would be there to respond to the incident. Police usually do not get there in less than seven minutes ( national average response time). Students and teachers most likely would already be injured, or dead, since you can't respond to an active shooter incident before it happens. If an armed person has been spotted on campus, they could more than likely prevent an active shooter incident, call for a lockdown or evacuation of a building before an incident occurs.

5) Anyone who has been legally adjudged to be mentally ill or incompetent are barred from owning firearms.
If they try to purchase firearms, the NICS (no, that is not a tv show) background check will block the sale. That has been in effect for many years.

Here's a pdf of the ATF Form 4473 that must be filled out during a firearms purchase.
You might get some real information off it concerning firearms and background checks other than what someone told you.
atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter- atf-form-53009/download

Question 11e was put in by the Obama admin.


Bhawk - 11/25/2019 at 11:59 PM

The title of this thread hasn’t gotten any less awful or cold since the first day it was posted, but it’s interesting that it comes from a person so passionate about trying to dispel myths about guns while assuring that more violence will come from their use.


Bhawk - 11/26/2019 at 12:00 AM

If the next shooting is indeed in Baltimore, what’s the prize for being right?


Skydog32103 - 11/26/2019 at 01:02 AM

quote:
1) Who told you that you can purchase an AR-15 at age 18? You can only purchase an AR-15 when you turn 21. Federal Law.

2) Who cares which ones? You said many schools don't have armed officers on site, so naturally I asked you which ones they are since you seem to be knowledgeable of that.

3) Yes, the Parkland officer, Scot Peterson, did remain outside and advised other leos not to come close to the building. Are you saying all officers are like him?

4) On site armed officers would be there to respond to the incident. Police usually do not get there in less than seven minutes ( national average response time). Students and teachers most likely would already be injured, or dead, since you can't respond to an active shooter incident before it happens. If an armed person has been spotted on campus, they could more than likely prevent an active shooter incident, call for a lockdown or evacuation of a building before an incident occurs.

5) Anyone who has been legally adjudged to be mentally ill or incompetent are barred from owning firearms.
If they try to purchase firearms, the NICS (no, that is not a tv show) background check will block the sale. That has been in effect for many years.


Hey man, if you think the publicity from a news story has a correlation to the odds of a mass school shooting happening in that metro area, then be my guest.


adhill58 - 11/26/2019 at 03:09 AM

I agree that this may be the most tasteless thread title ever.

I predict the next mass shooting will be in the USA, because other civilized nations do not have this problem. The gun worshipers have trashed the place.


BIGV - 11/26/2019 at 03:37 AM

quote:
I agree that this may be the most tasteless thread title ever.

I predict the next mass shooting will be in the USA, because other civilized nations do not have this problem.


How many "civilized nations" have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights guaranteeing the FREEDOM we have here? How many have donned the uniform and laid their lives on the line to protect these freedoms?

Don't like it here?

Move


Stephen - 11/26/2019 at 03:54 AM

Whether a school, church, shopping mall parking lot, a youth sports game, esp Little League, where parents can get livid and Very angry.......

...point being, more gun violence Will occur - it’s a tragic reality we have to acknowledge & brace ourselves for

Would be curious to know how many less mass shootings ‘civilized’ nations have than the US, & why - Canada was recently mentioned as an example

[Edited on 11/26/2019 by Stephen]


BrerRabbit - 11/26/2019 at 04:26 AM

quote:
Don't like it here?

Move


You're just another American who is willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick being shoved up your @sshole every day... The owners of this country know the truth... it's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it!

- George Carlin



[Edited on 11/26/2019 by BrerRabbit]


Skydog32103 - 11/26/2019 at 01:00 PM

"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist."

- George Carlin


Skydog32103 - 11/26/2019 at 01:27 PM

Carlin:

"Most comedians, myself included, pick on people who have some power and position and abuse it," he said. "But Clay, he picks on foreigners, homosexuals and women - who are all underdogs in this society.

"And it makes me wonder what he's thinking, because he says all these things and his audience responds because he plays to their prejudices. But he's Jewish and doesn't he know that these same people who hate gays and foreigners and women have Jews somewhere on their list?"


adhill58 - 11/26/2019 at 02:15 PM

quote:
quote:
I agree that this may be the most tasteless thread title ever.

I predict the next mass shooting will be in the USA, because other civilized nations do not have this problem.


How many "civilized nations" have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights guaranteeing the FREEDOM we have here? How many have donned the uniform and laid their lives on the line to protect these freedoms?

Don't like it here?

Move


Do you like the fact that we have mass shootings all of the time? That is what I am complaining about.


BrerRabbit - 11/26/2019 at 05:35 PM

quote:
Do you like the fact that we have mass shootings all of the time?


What part of Dont Like It Here Move dont you understand?

[Edited on 11/26/2019 by BrerRabbit]


adhill58 - 11/26/2019 at 09:09 PM

quote:
quote:
Do you like the fact that we have mass shootings all of the time?


What part of Dont Like It Here Move dont you understand?

[Edited on 11/26/2019 by BrerRabbit]



I can't believe I had the nerve to say that I would prefer this country to have fewer gun deaths. I should have just left.


BrerRabbit - 11/26/2019 at 09:26 PM

quote:
I can't believe I had the nerve to say that I would prefer this country to have fewer gun deaths. I should have just left.


You also said that there are other civilized countries besides the USA. You think they are so great just pick one and go.



adhill58 - 11/26/2019 at 09:28 PM

quote:
quote:
I can't believe I had the nerve to say that I would prefer this country to have fewer gun deaths. I should have just left.


You also said that there are other civilized countries besides the USA. You think they are so great just pick one and go.





My bad! "USA...USA...USA...!"


BrerRabbit - 11/26/2019 at 09:40 PM

Too little too late man, might as well get a hammer and sickle tattoo, put a bone through your nose and catch the next boat to Borneo ya savage.


Skydog32103 - 11/27/2019 at 02:13 PM

You would think a mea culpa is warranted in this thread, but I won't hold my breath.


BIGV - 11/27/2019 at 03:55 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
I agree that this may be the most tasteless thread title ever.

I predict the next mass shooting will be in the USA, because other civilized nations do not have this problem.


How many "civilized nations" have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights guaranteeing the FREEDOM we have here? How many have donned the uniform and laid their lives on the line to protect these freedoms?

Don't like it here?

Move


Do you like the fact that we have mass shootings all of the time? That is what I am complaining about.




Do I like it?...Hell no, "I don't like it"...It saddens me deeply. I just don't think the knee jerk reaction is to think that more laws will solve anything. The problem goes way deeper than that....But speak out against the leftist narrative of Gun restrictions, more laws, more steps or what other Countries have done and wham, one would think they had the nerve to next state they didn't believe in the "Science" of Global Warming....


Stephen - 11/27/2019 at 04:10 PM

Multiple complexities cloud issues like gun control, global warming etc
Dialogue/discussion/discourse can get confusing>not too civil after awhile (also repetitive)


BrerRabbit - 11/27/2019 at 04:37 PM

quote:
Do I like it?...Hell no, "I don't like it"


THEN MOVE


BIGV - 11/27/2019 at 04:40 PM

quote:
quote:
Do I like it?...Hell no, "I don't like it"


THEN MOVE


Notice I am not the one complaining, I merely answered a question, snowflake


BrerRabbit - 11/27/2019 at 04:45 PM

I was merely flippin ya sh!t grouchpuppy


BIGV - 11/27/2019 at 04:50 PM

quote:
I was merely flippin ya sh!t grouchpuppy


Oh!...Well in that case...


Happy Thanksgiving!


BrerRabbit - 11/27/2019 at 04:52 PM

backatcha !


adhill58 - 11/27/2019 at 06:01 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Do I like it?...Hell no, "I don't like it"


THEN MOVE


Notice I am not the one complaining, I merely answered a question, snowflake


I was the one complaining. Nothing would ever change if people don’t voice their dissatisfaction.

Don’t let a worship of the Second Amendment blind you of the First Amendment.


BIGV - 11/27/2019 at 06:40 PM

quote:
Don’t let a worship of the Second Amendment blind you of the First Amendment


Not sure I follow the attempt at logic here ......


BrerRabbit - 11/27/2019 at 06:42 PM

quote:
Nothing would ever change if people don’t voice their dissatisfaction.


For sure - look how much rocknroll changed when the Rolling Stones voiced their dissatsfaction.


Skydog32103 - 11/27/2019 at 07:02 PM

quote:
But speak out against


Your way of speaking out is to tell someone to move out of the country?


adhill58 - 11/27/2019 at 07:38 PM

quote:
[quote ] Don’t let a worship of the Second Amendment blind you of the First Amendment


Not sure I follow the attempt at logic here ......


What’s difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country. The First Amendment gives me the ability to say there is something wrong without being hauled off to jail for dissent. You got all preachy about freedoms afforded by the Bill of Rights and suggested I emigrate. Since you seem to think that pointing out flaws in this country is not valid, I assumed you were not really giving the First Amendment much weight. Because my complaint and the thread discussion is about guns, I assumed you were referring to the Second.

Either way, I think most everybody caught the irony of your “love it or leave it” post.


BIGV - 11/27/2019 at 07:52 PM

quote:
Because my complaint and the thread discussion is about guns, I assumed you were referring to the Second.


No. I am always attempting to reference the unfortunate scenarios that exist because of freedom and that no new Law or "extra steps" in registering or the acquisition of a firearm deemed "over the top" is going to in anyway keep weapons out of the hands of criminals as long as there is a Black Market.

I have or offer no solutions, just pointing out what I feel will continue to be a "flaw" in our society that sadly will probably result in more innocent people losing their lives....


BrerRabbit - 11/27/2019 at 09:10 PM

quote:
. . . will continue to be a "flaw" in our society that sadly will probably result in more innocent people losing their lives....


It will get corrected eventually. My best guess is a total martial law clampdown at some point, indefinite suspension of rights.


adhill58 - 11/27/2019 at 09:19 PM

quote:


I have or offer no solutions, just pointing out what I feel will continue to be a "flaw" in our society that sadly will probably result in more innocent people losing their lives....



That is exactly what I was doing when I said the gun nuts have ruined the place.

I am not sure why I would need to leave the country for that.


Skydog32103 - 11/27/2019 at 09:49 PM

quote:
that no new Law or "extra steps" in registering or the acquisition of a firearm deemed "over the top" is going to in anyway keep weapons out of the hands of criminals as long as there is a Black Market.


You're telling me that you don't think the black market is a major hurdle and a deterrent for some entitled 18-year old brat with sh*tty parents? Going to the black market is risky, and makes their entire acquisition for a firearm a crime, and the perp can be caught by police in the act of purchasing. Some sort of responsible vetting process can weed these people out.

It doesn't matter. As long as there are people who want wide open doors to guns for all, then our kids will continue to be killed in school. Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


BIGV - 11/27/2019 at 10:40 PM

quote:
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


"Every" public place?....or just schools?



Jerry - 11/27/2019 at 11:52 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Do you like the fact that we have mass shootings all of the time?


What part of Dont Like It Here Move dont you understand?

[Edited on 11/26/2019 by BrerRabbit]



I can't believe I had the nerve to say that I would prefer this country to have fewer gun deaths. I should have just left.


Nah, don't do that. I don't want more gun deaths, and would prefer to see a lot less.


Jerry - 11/27/2019 at 11:56 PM

quote:
What’s difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country.


Come on adhill58, do you really believe all gun owners are nuts?

That's called painting with a broad brush.


adhill58 - 11/28/2019 at 03:11 AM

quote:
quote:
What’s difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country.


Come on adhill58, do you really believe all gun owners are nuts?

That's called painting with a broad brush.


I think people who think it is a good idea to have more guns than people in this country are nuts. I think people who say the answer to the problems caused by so many guns is more guns are nuts. I think people who would rather have schools and churches shot up than even start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws because it might infringe on their hobby/fetish are a-holes.

I don’t think all gun owners are nuts, I never even remotely implied that. By gun nut, I mean someone who puts access to guns as a higher priority than public safety.


adhill58 - 11/28/2019 at 03:20 AM

quote:
quote:
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


"Every" public place?....or just schools?





Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.


Jerry - 11/28/2019 at 03:35 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
What’s difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country.


Come on adhill58, do you really believe all gun owners are nuts?

That's called painting with a broad brush.


I think people who think it is a good idea to have more guns than people in this country are nuts. I think people who say the answer to the problems caused by so many guns is more guns are nuts. I think people who would rather have schools and churches shot up than even start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws because it might infringe on their hobby/fetish are a-holes.
___________________________________________________________________________ ________________

There is discussion. What do you think we are doing here? No one I know of wants to have any place endure a shooting incident.

Gun laws are constantly added, almost every time a shooting incident happens. Problem is, that the "legislators" don't realize that the laws they want are already on the books. There is even a law against murder, but it doesn't stop it from happening.

___________________________________________________________________________ ________________

I don’t think all gun owners are nuts, I never even remotely implied that. By gun nut, I mean someone who puts access to guns as a higher priority than public safety.


___________________________________________________________________________ _______________

Read back to what you posted. You never refer to "those who are", just to "gun nuts". you don't differentiate at all, you include all. So what are we supposed to infer from your posts?

Myself, i think all adult age citizens should own a pistol, rifle, and shotgun. If their moral and religious beliefs are against them owning them, then they should do some type of compulsory social work in "distressed" areas to help teach and mentor kids on social manners and how to avoid being put into a situation where using a gun is not the answer.

Do you think that would help, or do you think gun confiscation is the answer?


Stephen - 11/28/2019 at 03:43 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


"Every" public place?....or just schools?





Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.


Also airports


Jerry - 11/28/2019 at 03:49 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


"Every" public place?....or just schools?





Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.


Also airports


They didn't have to envision it, it was already done in all places the public gathered since almost everybody was armed.

Women would have one in their purse or a pocket of their dress. Men would have one under their coat in their waistband.


adhill58 - 11/28/2019 at 04:01 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
What’s difficult to follow? I complained that gun nuts had trashed the country.


Come on adhill58, do you really believe all gun owners are nuts?

That's called painting with a broad brush.


I think people who think it is a good idea to have more guns than people in this country are nuts. I think people who say the answer to the problems caused by so many guns is more guns are nuts. I think people who would rather have schools and churches shot up than even start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws because it might infringe on their hobby/fetish are a-holes.
___________________________________________________________________________ ________________

There is discussion. What do you think we are doing here? No one I know of wants to have any place endure a shooting incident.

Gun laws are constantly added, almost every time a shooting incident happens. Problem is, that the "legislators" don't realize that the laws they want are already on the books. There is even a law against murder, but it doesn't stop it from happening.

___________________________________________________________________________ ________________

I don’t think all gun owners are nuts, I never even remotely implied that. By gun nut, I mean someone who puts access to guns as a higher priority than public safety.


___________________________________________________________________________ _______________

Read back to what you posted. You never refer to "those who are", just to "gun nuts". you don't differentiate at all, you include all. So what are we supposed to infer from your posts?

Myself, i think all adult age citizens should own a pistol, rifle, and shotgun. If their moral and religious beliefs are against them owning them, then they should do some type of compulsory social work in "distressed" areas to help teach and mentor kids on social manners and how to avoid being put into a situation where using a gun is not the answer.

Do you think that would help, or do you think gun confiscation is the answer?


I did not say originally that gun nuts are anyone who owns a gun. V asked and I clarified.

My 75 year old mother is 4’10” and uses a cain because her inner ear balance mechanisms have been destroyed by chemotherapy. I don’t know what benefits she would get from a pistol and a rifle and a shotgun. My older brother is a high school football coach who at the age of 45 still acts like a high school football player ready to show anybody who challenges him how tough he is. I am thrilled that he owns neither a pistol nor a rifle nor a shotgun.

If somebody wants to own a rifle to hunt, I am all for it.

Saying that ALL adults should own guns is ridiculous. Most people can’t manage their own diets or not be sh!tty parents, why would we want to trust them with guns?


adhill58 - 11/28/2019 at 04:07 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


"Every" public place?....or just schools?





Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.


Also airports


They didn't have to envision it, it was already done in all places the public gathered since almost everybody was armed.

Women would have one in their purse or a pocket of their dress. Men would have one under their coat in their waistband.


Again, they also crapped in a hole in their front yard and assumed it was as good as it was going to get. Again, times change... hopefully in ways that make the public safer.

[Edited on 11/28/2019 by adhill58]


adhill58 - 11/28/2019 at 04:27 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:


I think people who think it is a good idea to have more guns than people in this country are nuts. I think people who say the answer to the problems caused by so many guns is more guns are nuts. I think people who would rather have schools and churches shot up than even start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws because it might infringe on their hobby/fetish are a-holes.
___________________________________________________________________________ ________________

There is discussion. What do you think we are doing here? No one I know of wants to have any place endure a shooting incident.

Gun laws are constantly added, almost every time a shooting incident happens. Problem is, that the "legislators" don't realize that the laws they want are already on the books. There is even a law against murder, but it doesn't stop it from happening.

?


This is not the discussion that needs to happen. I doubt the NRA and Senate Republicans are going to say, “You know Jerry and Adam and V had some good points over on the ABB forum.”

Also there have been over 200 people in this country this year that have wanted some place to endure a mass shooting incident and acted on their wishes.


Jerry - 11/28/2019 at 04:30 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Armed guards at every public place is not the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, so I don't know how anyone could suggest such a thing.


"Every" public place?....or just schools?





Not every public place... just schools, churches, synagogues, mosques, Wal-Marts, concerts, bars, gay bars, garlic festivals, post offices, factories, malls, city halls, armed forces recruiting centers, and college campuses.


Also airports


They didn't have to envision it, it was already done in all places the public gathered since almost everybody was armed.

Women would have one in their purse or a pocket of their dress. Men would have one under their coat in their waistband.


Again, they also crapped in a whole in their front yard and assumed it was as good as it was going to get. Again, times change... hopefully in ways that make the public safer.


They would go in the barn or stable.

In Germany during WWII some downed crewmen were captured because they couldn't follow the tradition of the local train station toilet was a long bench with holes in it over what the military calls a "slit trench" out in the open with males and females using it side by side. No walls, no dividers.
Which is a good story to learn while in Escape and Evasion school, but it has as much to do with the subject as the last line in your post.


BIGV - 11/28/2019 at 05:19 AM

quote:
start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws


You have the floor...Where would you start?


adhill58 - 11/28/2019 at 06:06 AM

quote:
quote:
start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws


You have the floor...Where would you start?


How about no private sales? If you want to sell your gun, you sell it to a licensed dealer who has to run a background check on the next person who owns it. It seems like a reasonable way to impede convicted domestic abusers from getting guns. If someone kills their ex-wife with your gun, you have to prove that they stole it from you.


BIGV - 11/28/2019 at 06:58 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws


You have the floor...Where would you start?


How about no private sales? If you want to sell your gun, you sell it to a licensed dealer who has to run a background check on the next person who owns it. It seems like a reasonable way to impede convicted domestic abusers from getting guns. If someone kills their ex-wife with your gun, you have to prove that they stole it from you.


I think the issue here is the application of any penalty for selling your gun. How do you prove it if the owner can just claim he never used it and one day it was just ...gone? Is the owner then as guilty as the individual who actually committed a crime in the form of a shooting?


adhill58 - 11/28/2019 at 02:49 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
start a real discussion about maybe changing some of our gun laws


You have the floor...Where would you start?


How about no private sales? If you want to sell your gun, you sell it to a licensed dealer who has to run a background check on the next person who owns it. It seems like a reasonable way to impede convicted domestic abusers from getting guns. If someone kills their ex-wife with your gun, you have to prove that they stole it from you.


I think the issue here is the application of any penalty for selling your gun. How do you prove it if the owner can just claim he never used it and one day it was just ...gone? Is the owner then as guilty as the individual who actually committed a crime in the form of a shooting?


Not as guilty. More like how bartenders can be held liable for car accidents. If the black market and inability to enforce existing laws are two problems that most people can agree on, wouldn’t this go a long way? Most people don’t want every adult to own three guns. Domestic abusers, parolees, people with mental illness, etc. can all buy guns without background checks in private sales right now.


Stephen - 11/28/2019 at 03:21 PM

Early education in the form of appropriate positive-based hands-on info that grade school-aged kids could understand, would be a sound first step IMO

As a kid I always played cops & robbers, cowboys & Indians & games like that w/cap guns or just toy guns - you knew that’s what they were & to stay away from the real thing lest you end up like a bad guy.....

The black market (private sales) is part&parcel of free enterprise - laws could be passed, yes - enforcing them, doubtful

[Edited on 11/28/2019 by Stephen]


BIGV - 11/28/2019 at 07:30 PM


quote:
More like how bartenders can be held liable for car accidents.



Not the best example: "there is a presumption that individuals should be responsible for how much alcohol they consume".

I agree wholeheartedly. People should be held fully responsible for their own actions. "If" a Bartender were to serve someone who is obviously incredibly intoxicated, this might hold water, just as if within the guidelines of the current background checks a Gun store were to sell a weapon of any kind to a person with a violent criminal history.....


adhill58 - 11/28/2019 at 07:41 PM

quote:

quote:
More like how bartenders can be held liable for car accidents.



Not the best example: "there is a presumption that individuals should be responsible for how much alcohol they consume".

I agree wholeheartedly. People should be held fully responsible for their own actions. "If" a Bartender were to serve someone who is obviously incredibly intoxicated, this might hold water, just as if within the guidelines of the current background checks a Gun store were to sell a weapon of any kind to a person with a violent criminal history.....


So if you are not okay with a gun dealer selling the wrong person a weapon, why should a private individual be able to sell the weapon to the same person - knowingly or unknowingly?


BIGV - 11/28/2019 at 08:19 PM

quote:
So if you are not okay with a gun dealer selling the wrong person a weapon


I am not. I think the immense difficulty is in how to legislate against this.


adhill58 - 11/29/2019 at 01:06 AM

quote:
quote:
So if you are not okay with a gun dealer selling the wrong person a weapon


I am not. I think the immense difficulty is in how to legislate against this.


For private sales, you simply outlaw them. Enforcement may be tough, but it would at least make most people stop.

You are right that a black market will always exist, but shutting down the gray market should be a reasonable step.


Jerry - 11/30/2019 at 12:49 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
So if you are not okay with a gun dealer selling the wrong person a weapon


I am not. I think the immense difficulty is in how to legislate against this.


For private sales, you simply outlaw them. Enforcement may be tough, but it would at least make most people stop.

You are right that a black market will always exist, but shutting down the gray market should be a reasonable step.


Mmmmmmm, NO. Let's get the mistaken use of "private sales=black market" out of the vernacular. There are private sales, then there is the black market.

There have been discussions of making private sales go through an FFL dealer. problems with that is that not everyone lives close to an FFL dealer that can do a background check.
If you looked at the ATF form 4473 you will see that there is a provision (Question 21) that does not require the background check if the buyer has the state permit.
The permits have their own background check and are to be issued from the local law enforcement agency. Problem is that some states and counties do not follow the shall issue and have a much cavalier attitude about issuing the permits.
NY sate and California are two of the worst offenders. Several county departments have had arrests due to everything from bribery to personal attacks toward those who file for permits.
WHEN, not if, this problem is taken care of, those who have the permits have no problem purchasing a firearm.
I have bought and sold firearms privately, but only if I can see their permit. If not, they have to purchase from a dealer.

Second reason that proposal was shut down was that if you gave a firearm to your son, daughter, wife, husband, or if any of them inherited your firearms, the legislation said you would have to turn it over to a dealer and have background checks run on the people you were giving, or willed them to.

Here's a little factoid for you about how far criminals will go to acquire firearms.
A few, well actually about 30 years ago, convicts at Reidsville prison were found to be manufacturing reasonably
well made single shot pistols and rifles in the prison machine shop. A shakedown found several dozen hidden in places around the prison.

So, you could shut down every gun shop, gun show, private sale, confiscate every known firearm in the country, and criminals would still find a way to get a firearm.

Anytime I see a politico fervently pushing "gun control", I think back about Leland Yee and his unabashed support for getting firearms out of the hands of the general public.
https://huffpost.com/entry/leland-yee-gun-trafficing_n_5038152

I also think about how Nancy Pelosi has a concealed carry permit when few in her district can't get one.


Jerry - 11/30/2019 at 12:55 AM

Oh, and you can go to:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/california-state-sen-leland-yee-indicted-we apons-charges/story?id=23082339

If you haven't figured it out yet, he was trying to get in full automatic weapons and shoulder fire missiles (RPGs) and other types of weapons for a Chinese gang.


Skydog32103 - 11/30/2019 at 04:29 AM

"California", "NY", "Chicago", all a bunch of code for "I blame Democrats for gun violence", which contributes nothing to the coversation and is counterproductive to finding a way to combat an epidemic unique to the United States. When reasonable gun measures are proposed, Republicans in Washington sell out to the NRA and the pro-gun base. Despite the fact that there are many Americans who suffer from a wide variety of mental disorders who go their whole lives untreated, who had very sh*tty parents, there's a significant portion of our population, as we've heard in this thread, that would sell them firearms. You guys win - go ahead and sell, sell, sell.

Pretty crazy that the Republican base is condoning the President's repeated attacks on distinguished military heroes, undermining all intelligence agencies, praising foreign dictator adversaries, collaboration with foreign entities to attack an American, and now proposing armed guards in our schools, and a society where all adults are carrying loaded firearms in public to protect against domestic terrorism - just how the Founding Fathers envisioned it!


BIGV - 11/30/2019 at 04:59 AM

quote:
"California", "NY", "Chicago", all a bunch of code for "I blame Democrats for gun violence"


quote:
When reasonable gun measures are proposed


Could not one argue that in the States above; the highest criminal activity with firearms "The Reasonable" measures in place are Democratic in origin?


Skydog32103 - 11/30/2019 at 05:19 AM

quote:
Could not one argue that in the States above; the highest criminal activity with firearms "The Reasonable" measures in place are Democratic in origin?


7 out of the 10 worst mass shootings in U.S. history occurred in red states, so yeah, one can argue that point if they want to be irrelevant. TX is by far the king of mass shootings, but I would never suggest that it's because of the Republican leadership, because that would be stupid.


BIGV - 11/30/2019 at 06:11 AM

quote:
quote:
Could not one argue that in the States above; the highest criminal activity with firearms "The Reasonable" measures in place are Democratic in origin?


7 out of the 10 worst mass shootings in U.S. history occurred in red states, so yeah, one can argue that point if they want to be irrelevant. TX is by far the king of mass shootings, but I would never suggest that it's because of the Republican leadership, because that would be stupid.


quote:
"California", "NY", "Chicago", all a bunch of code for "I blame Democrats for gun violence"


Are these words not from your quote?...Where it would appear that simply by mentioning these states you had an issue?...Are these states not under Democratic policy making as they refer to firearms?


Skydog32103 - 11/30/2019 at 06:18 AM

quote:
Are these words not from your quote?...Where it would appear that simply by mentioning these states you had an issue?...Are these states not under Democratic policy making as they refer to firearms?


I don't know what your point is, but my issue was with Jerry's post. No need to take it any other way.


Jerry - 11/30/2019 at 03:39 PM

quote:
"California", "NY", "Chicago", all a bunch of code for "I blame Democrats for gun violence", which contributes nothing to the conversation and is counterproductive to finding a way to combat an epidemic unique to the United States. When reasonable gun measures are proposed, Republicans in Washington sell out to the NRA and the pro-gun base. Despite the fact that there are many Americans who suffer from a wide variety of mental disorders who go their whole lives untreated, who had very sh*tty parents, there's a significant portion of our population, as we've heard in this thread, that would sell them firearms. You guys win - go ahead and sell, sell, sell.

Pretty crazy that the Republican base is condoning the President's repeated attacks on distinguished military heroes, undermining all intelligence agencies, praising foreign dictator adversaries, collaboration with foreign entities to attack an American, and now proposing armed guards in our schools, and a society where all adults are carrying loaded firearms in public to protect against domestic terrorism - just how the Founding Fathers envisioned it!


Got that out of your system now?

Please get a spell check on your browser, or at least correct the words it highlights if you already have one.
Then again, you might be typing faster than your brain can register "Oh, I misspelled that word."

I've never come across a school system that didn't have armed guards on campus. You posted that most do not. I asked you where those systems were, but you have as yet given any information of those locations, not the first one.
So, yes, there armed guards at schools, and have been for a long time.

I have not seen any type of "reasonable" gun measures proposed since the 1968 GCA which stopped the mail order business of firearms except for muzzle loaders.
Every "reasonable" proposal since then has been more and more restrictions on law abiding citizens, not criminals. Some "reasonable" proposals would have made some citizens criminals, and even would have violated SEVERAL amendments in the Bill Of Rights.

Some were even proposed by Republicans.

I hope to God that our representatives keep selling out to the gun base. We're of BOTH parties, all walks of life, all income brackets, all races, and most religions. Some are even politicians. Which means, NO, I don't hate democrats for gun violence. I despise the ones who wish to disarm by small measures. Constant increments of denying the gun rights are in use in several places around the country. Little bit by little bit the hue and cry of "we must do this about gun violence" and there actually isn't anything in the proposals to help curb violence. No provisions of longer jail terms, stiffer fines, or anything that might result in lower crime rates with firearms.

I posted about California and New York due to their attitude of issuing state gun permits. Why don't they issue them? A full background check is done before it can be issued, so that objection is moot.
BUT, very few are issued to civilians, even when they pass the background checks. Now if you could give me an answer why the Dems now keep proposing background checks as a measure to purchase a firearm when the
program is already in effect for those who wish to purchase a firearm?

Note: I have yet to bring up Chicago. I will, and include several other Michigan towns if you wish.

Did you enjoy the links to why I distrust any politician who is rabidly fervent about civilian disarmament?
Or do you think it was ok for former senator Yee to keep firearms out of the hands of civilians while he was negotiating with a Chinese Tong to illegally bring in actual machine guns, rocket launchers, and RPGs for criminals to use and/or sell on the actual Black Market?

You couldn't keep up the dialog so you included a diatribe about the President?

By the way, I'm not a member of the NRA. They don't go far enough to protect the rights of the American citizen.

AND, I'm still waiting for you to let me know who "they" are that knows where those millions of untreated mentally ill
citizens are that "they" know are going to purchase firearms and go about creating mass havoc.

Last note on this post: Gun control is aiming true on your target, letting out a breath, slowly pulling on the trigger, and hitting the target you are aiming for.


Skydog32103 - 11/30/2019 at 03:49 PM

Good for you!


BIGV - 11/30/2019 at 03:53 PM

quote:
quote:
Are these words not from your quote?...Where it would appear that simply by mentioning these states you had an issue?...Are these states not under Democratic policy making as they refer to firearms?


I don't know what your point is, but my issue was with Jerry's post. No need to take it any other way.


My "Point" is that the States you've listed are among the ones with the most stringent Gun Laws, yet they are all high firearm related crime states. If the "argument" is both moral and legal, then countering with "7 out of 10" is pretty weak if your defense is anyway trying to push across the image that "More nuts are to be found in Red States"....

Too Funny


Skydog32103 - 11/30/2019 at 04:11 PM

good for you both.


Jerry - 11/30/2019 at 04:17 PM

quote:
Good for you!


Does this mean no answers to questions?


Skydog32103 - 11/30/2019 at 06:43 PM

quote:
Does this mean no answers to questions?


If I thought it would be productive, or if I saw any relevance, I'd answer them, but since we're so far off, no point in moving forward.


Jerry - 11/30/2019 at 11:15 PM

quote:
quote:
Does this mean no answers to questions?


If I thought it would be productive, or if I saw any relevance, I'd answer them, but since we're so far off, no point in moving forward.



Why do you think we are so far off? Everything I have asked you has been relevant to the discussion.

Of course this could be just you deciding that the discussion isn't going your way and want to quit and act like you won since the facts seem to get in the way of your agenda.

Let me ask this one question and see if you can answer it.

"Do you think that it was ok for former senator Yee to keep firearms out of the hands of civilians while he was negotiating with a Chinese Tong to illegally bring in actual machine guns, rocket launchers, and RPGs for criminals to use and/or sell on the actual Black Market?"


Stephen - 11/30/2019 at 11:43 PM

That was a doozie alright
A politician lobbying/legislating for gun control at work
& after hours, supplying gangs w/automatic weapons
That to me is mental illness - a Dr Jeckyl-Mr Hyde type - at the very least a big time identity problem on the part of this elected official


BIGV - 12/1/2019 at 01:03 AM

quote:
Of course this could be just you deciding that the discussion isn't going your way and want to quit and act like you won since the facts seem to get in the way of your agenda.


Pretty much. Since the Democratic answer for most things is "More laws/Legislation" if you choose not to agree.....then there is no point in continuing.


Skydog32103 - 12/1/2019 at 02:40 AM

quote:
Pretty much. Since the Democratic answer for most things is "More laws/Legislation" if you choose not to agree.....then there is no point in continuing.


If you don’t like it, move to another country.


Jerry - 12/1/2019 at 02:49 AM

quote:
quote:
Pretty much. Since the Democratic answer for most things is "More laws/Legislation" if you choose not to agree.....then there is no point in continuing.


If you don’t like it, move to another country.




Well, if you don't like us owning firearms, you could move, to North Korea where nobody owns a firearm.

Tried to throw in a little Henny Youngman delay in there

You still haven't answered any of the questions I put forth.

I guess you're going to keep coming back with non relevant one liners as your contribution to the discussion.

But, if that's the way you put forth your opinion, keep at it.


BIGV - 12/1/2019 at 02:55 AM

quote:
quote:
Pretty much. Since the Democratic answer for most things is "More laws/Legislation" if you choose not to agree.....then there is no point in continuing.


If you don’t like it, move to another country.


Think I'll stay and take every opportunity to vote my conscience. You know what's great?

You can do the same


adhill58 - 12/1/2019 at 03:49 AM

This goes both ways. I have asked for the “mental health” solutions on many of these threads and have yet to see a single suggestion from the people who say the problem is not guns.

Why should a someone with mental illness or a domestic abuser be allowed to inherit or buy a weapon from a family member, even if they live miles from a dealer who can run a legit background check?

Also, the “one bad apple” example about a politician pushing gun control is pretty weak in defense of having everyone everywhere carrying guns.


BIGV - 12/1/2019 at 04:24 AM

quote:
Why should a someone with mental illness or a domestic abuser be allowed to inherit or buy a weapon from a family member


How do you stop this?


Jerry - 12/1/2019 at 04:26 AM

quote:
This goes both ways. I have asked for the “mental health” solutions on many of these threads and have yet to see a single suggestion from the people who say the problem is not guns.

Why should a someone with mental illness or a domestic abuser be allowed to inherit or buy a weapon from a family member, even if they live miles from a dealer who can run a legit background check?

Also, the “one bad apple” example about a politician pushing gun control is pretty weak in defense of having everyone everywhere carrying guns.


A person with a domestic abuse conviction is prohibited from owning, purchasing, or be in possession of a firearm. I'm pretty sure that the family would know about any charges or mental health issues within their group and find other ways to pass on the firearm.

Who said that the posts about Leland Yee was about everyone carrying firearms? it was about the issue of how some people that are fervently opposed to civilians owning firearms are actually working behind the scenes to help criminals get firearms that civilians cannot legally own without background checks to hold an FFL class III license.
The post is available for everyone to read. You can go back and check it if you want and see it doesn't say anything about arming everyone.

BoytonBrother used to push the mental health issue about having gun purchasers undergo a mental health test before they could get a permit to purchase, just like the ones given to police officers.
It was pointed out that there are quite a few bad police officers across the country and it seems that they weren't picked out as "bad apples" by the tests.

Would you suggest that we have every high school kid be subjected to mental health testing before they get a learners permit? I think they could use some testing before they take a large heavy machine out on the streets. Do you agree?

If not, where would you start doing your mandatory testing to find all those "millions" of mentally ill you refer to?

Note: Leland Yee was not the first, nor will he be the last one to be a "law and order" anti-gunner that had criminal dealings going in the background.


adhill58 - 12/1/2019 at 04:26 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:

Anytime I see a politico fervently pushing "gun control", I think back about Leland Yee and his unabashed support for getting firearms out of the hands of the general public.
https://huffpost.com/entry/leland-yee-gun-trafficing_n_5038152

I also think about how Nancy Pelosi has a concealed carry permit when few in her district can't get one.


Anytime I see someone fervently pushing the idea that there are already too many obstacles and laws in the way of anybody getting their hands on a gun, I think back about Las Vegas, Sandy Hook, Orlando, Dayton, El Paso, Midland, Aurora, Columbine, Charleston, Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, Chattanooga, Virginia Beach, San Bernadino... and the other 40,000 annual firearm deaths in this country annually.


adhill58 - 12/1/2019 at 04:45 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:

Myself, i think all adult age citizens should own a pistol, rifle, and shotgun.


You want ALL adults to own three guns. The guy who follows the little league umpire to his car to cuss him out should have three guns. The guy who cuts people off in the grocery store parking lot to get the front parking spot should have three guns. The guy who has not been convicted of anything yet, but is currently stalking his ex-girlfriend should have three guns. The guy who gets kicked out of the bar every weekend should have three guns.



adhill58 - 12/1/2019 at 05:09 AM

How about this one, Jerry? My wife’s cousin is about 32 years old. He did two tours in Iraq, and then six years with a Blackwater-type private security company in Iraq. He is back home and working as a police officer in Ohio. Two years ago, he was home from Iraq and all of his siblings took him out to the bars. He ended up beating the crap out of his younger sister. The family would not let her report him because he “has had too much to deal with” and told her she should not have pissed him off. His uncle told me that he owns about 30 guns. His wife was going to leave him to get their two young daughters away from him about nine months ago, but now has decided to stay.

Does this sound like a situation where the family can be trusted to do what is safe, and gun ownership is a patriotic endeavor? Obviously, he has no convictions because his sister was coerced to not file a report.


Stephen - 12/2/2019 at 12:16 PM

Tough tough situation, feel for your wife, hopefully it works out for her cousin - not to stick my nose in it, but he should’ve been arrested for the attack on his sister - maybe he was provoked but still no excuse for that

Not a school, but The Big Easy has has some shoot em ups of late
Overall tho mass shootings seem to be subsiding from the epidemic levels of a few months ago - it will never cease completely but minimizing them, letting gun criminals know they face the strongest most exacting punishment for their crimes, is the right trend/a good start

[Edited on 12/2/2019 by Stephen]


Skydog32103 - 12/2/2019 at 05:49 PM

It seems incredibly disrespectful towards the firearm itself, to let the reckless irresponsible fools of our country to purchase such a powerful weapon. Shouldn't we want people to have to work for this a little? Maybe put a little bit of effort into showing you can handle one first? If your only requirement is a clean record, then you aren't really holding the object in the highest regard. I respect guns, so I think only the competent should be able to have one. And if you bust your butt everyday, despite having sh*tty parents, to overcome their shortcomings, work hard, and support your loved ones, then why would you offer the same benefits to someone who never put any effort into any of those things?



[Edited on 12/2/2019 by Skydog32103]


BIGV - 12/2/2019 at 06:09 PM

quote:
It seems incredibly disrespectful towards the firearm itself, to let the reckless irresponsible fools of our country to purchase such a powerful weapon. Shouldn't we want people to have to work for this a little? Maybe put a little bit of effort into showing you can handle one first? If your only requirement is a clean record, then you aren't really holding the object in the highest regard. I respect guns, so I think only the competent should be able to have one. And if you bust your butt everyday, despite having sh*tty parents, to overcome their shortcomings, work hard, and support your loved ones, then why would you offer the same benefits to someone who never put any effort into any of those things?



Once again, you and your ilk have failed to address the most important question we all face....

"How do we keep these weapons out of the hands of CRIMINALS"?


Skydog32103 - 12/2/2019 at 06:13 PM

quote:
Once again, you and your ilk have failed to address the most important question we all face....

"How do we keep these weapons out of the hands of CRIMINALS"?


Ilk? It ain't my fault you are working class, so don't take it out on me. Second, criminals are not legally allowed to purchase, as Jerry has pointed out several times...pay attention.


Stephen - 12/2/2019 at 06:24 PM

quote:
”How do we keep these weapons out of the hands of CRIMINALS”
quote:


IMO, with the harshest most unyielding penalties the law would allow
Trigger fingers would get a lot less itchy if first time offenders were looking at jail time/2nd time offenders, mandatory life sentence........the punishment would have to fit the crime

Just finished reading an account of the memorial service for the 10 year old boy killed by crossfire in a gang gunfight at a HS football game last month in NJ - hundreds attended - can be found online


BIGV - 12/2/2019 at 06:29 PM

quote:
quote:
Once again, you and your ilk have failed to address the most important question we all face....

"How do we keep these weapons out of the hands of CRIMINALS"?


Ilk? It ain't my fault you are working class, so don't take it out on me. Second, criminals are not legally allowed to purchase, as Jerry has pointed out several times...pay attention.


How do we keep the guns out of the hands of criminals?.."Purchasing"...has NEVER been the issue here, Acquisition is.

Solutions?

I didn't think so

You might want to look up the definition of "Ilk"..before you go all snowflake on me.


Skydog32103 - 12/2/2019 at 06:39 PM

quote:
How do we keep the guns out of the hands of criminals?.."Purchasing"...has NEVER been the issue here, Acquisition is.

Solutions?

I didn't think so

You might want to look up the definition of "Ilk"..before you go all snowflake on me.


Purchasinig might not be the issue for you maybe, but our mass shooters tend to purchase their guns legally, which is an issue for many Americans whether you like it or not. My posts are about purchasing laws, in response to Jerry's post that all adults should own. If you want to discuss how to stop the black market, something that has existed worldwide for thousands of years, then I suggest you start a thread about it.


BIGV - 12/2/2019 at 09:00 PM

quote:
quote:
How do we keep the guns out of the hands of criminals?.."Purchasing"...has NEVER been the issue here, Acquisition is.

Solutions?

I didn't think so

You might want to look up the definition of "Ilk"..before you go all snowflake on me.


Purchasinig might not be the issue for you maybe, but our mass shooters tend to purchase their guns legally, which is an issue for many Americans whether you like it or not. My posts are about purchasing laws, in response to Jerry's post that all adults should own. If you want to discuss how to stop the black market, something that has existed worldwide for thousands of years, then I suggest you start a thread about it.


"I predict the next school shooting will be in"

Unless I am mistaken, this is the title of this thread and nowhere is there any allusion to guns being "purchased legally"..

"Purchasing" vs. "Acquisition"

Citizens can "Purchase" legally. Criminals "acquire"....

quote:
which is an issue for many Americans whether you like it or not


Once again, my "issue" has everything to do with the Left's knee-jerk reaction that more Laws are the answer for everything....."Mass shootings" disgust and alarm me as much if not more than anyone.

quote:
but our mass shooters tend to purchase their guns legally


Evidence? And if this is the case, does this not give stock to the thought that Mental Illness is at the forefront?


Skydog32103 - 12/2/2019 at 09:40 PM

quote:
Evidence? And if this is the case, does this not give stock to the thought that Mental Illness is at the forefront?


Why let these undiagnosed mentally ill folks purchase legally? How is that showing respect for the object? That's treating a firearm the same as a pack of cigarettes - any reckless idiot can get one. It's like giving a Green Jacket to all golphers in the tournament, or giving trophies to all the kids in the league just for playing...whatever happened to reverence, merit, and earning your badge of honor?


BrerRabbit - 12/2/2019 at 10:40 PM

quote:
Once again, you and your ilk have failed to address the most important question we all face....

"How do we keep these weapons out of the hands of CRIMINALS"?


You are correct, an ilk other than your ilk has failed to address that question. What is YOUR ilk's answer to the question?

Has any ilk addressed the question? Maybe instead of going all snowflake on us all the time you could put some thought into how your ilk has succeeded in answering the question where another ilk has failed.

Instead of constantly finding fault with others try coming up with constructive ideas of your own for a change.

Then you could help the other ilk learn from your ilk.
.


[Edited on 12/2/2019 by BrerRabbit]


BIGV - 12/2/2019 at 11:01 PM

quote:
Why let these undiagnosed mentally ill folks purchase legally?


Agreed, they should not, their names should and must be added to the existing electronic background check list.




BrerRabbit - 12/2/2019 at 11:10 PM

quote:
quote:
Why let these undiagnosed mentally ill folks purchase legally?


Agreed, they should not, their names should and must be added to the existing electronic background check list.



So undiagnosed mentally ill should be barred from purchasing firearms?


BrerRabbit - 12/2/2019 at 11:42 PM

Then you and your ilk think that a quarter of the US population should be barred from purchasing firearms:

Percentage of US population that is mentally ill, CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6003a1.htm


BIGV - 12/3/2019 at 12:09 AM

quote:
quote:
Once again, you and your ilk have failed to address the most important question we all face....

"How do we keep these weapons out of the hands of CRIMINALS"?


You are correct, an ilk other than your ilk has failed to address that question. What is YOUR ilk's answer to the question?

Has any ilk addressed the question? Maybe instead of going all snowflake on us all the time you could put some thought into how your ilk has succeeded in answering the question where another ilk has failed.

Instead of constantly finding fault with others try coming up with constructive ideas of your own for a change.

Then you could help the other ilk learn from your ilk.


You seem to be somewhat preoccupied with the word "Ilk" ...Perhaps you might be able to use it in the same sentence as "Concentration Camp"....

That would be cool


BrerRabbit - 12/3/2019 at 12:20 AM


Snowflake grudge - remembers one little thing forever. Mulemind used to do the same thing.


Skydog32103 - 12/3/2019 at 01:13 AM

quote:
Agreed, they should not, their names should and must be added to the existing electronic background check list.


Perfect. In order to put them on the list, we must somehow identify the undiagnosed mentally ill. How? It would take new legislation to screen for them during reformed purchasing procedures. How about federal mandates to expand the application process to include an in-person screening? Purchase whatever you want upon passing. I would imagine that an in-person screening process would be able to detect the red flags that indicate a ticking time bomb. Wouldn't have to be anything thorough, just some basic questions to get a feel for the customer.

This is all our ilk would ever want. Even you and I can agree it would be best not to legally sell guns to people who are mentally unstable, but the Republicans in Washington won't stand up to the NRA. I don't think it has to do with the voters. Even my far-right Trump-loving friends and family think we need to make it a lot harder to purchase, therefore I don't believe blocking such legilsation is popular among the people. I can only think that there must be a TON of money floating around to keep gun sales as high as possible, and any threat to that flow could mean trouble for whoever is behind it. Sad.


BrerRabbit - 12/3/2019 at 01:31 AM

I think all paranoid schizos should have RPGs.


BIGV - 12/5/2019 at 01:12 AM

quote:
remembers one little thing forever.


People who live in glass houses


BrerRabbit - 12/5/2019 at 02:23 AM

He who go to bed with itchy @sshole wake up with smelly finger


Jerry - 12/5/2019 at 04:01 PM

quote:
quote:
Agreed, they should not, their names should and must be added to the existing electronic background check list.


Perfect. In order to put them on the list, we must somehow identify the undiagnosed mentally ill. How? It would take new legislation to screen for them during reformed purchasing procedures. How about federal mandates to expand the application process to include an in-person screening? Purchase whatever you want upon passing. I would imagine that an in-person screening process would be able to detect the red flags that indicate a ticking time bomb. Wouldn't have to be anything thorough, just some basic questions to get a feel for the customer.
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

Who would form the committee to set the guidelines? Who would do the pre-purchase check? What would happen to the person who doesn't pass the "test"? There are different types of mental illness, many of which are treatable. What about those persons? Just how political would the program become when it's at the mercy of elected officials?

To add someone to the NICS database as one of the "un-diagnosed" mentally ill and barred from purchasing firearms you have to have them adjudged, meaning found by a court of law to be mentally unsound.
They would have to be found either mentally insane or mentally incompetent.
Here's the thing about that. They could never go into contracts, get a drivers license, probably would never be able to get a decent job, basically, their lives would be ruined.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----


This is all our ilk would ever want.
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

No, it won't be. It would be another one of many steps the anti-gunners have worked at to disarm citizens.
Every time a scheme like this has come up the armed citizens are told, "See, you compromised here, why won't you compromise with this. It's not like we're going to take away all your guns, just these few."

For over 50 years I've watched this happen over and over. Don't fall for it again.
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

Even you and I can agree it would be best not to legally sell guns to people who are mentally unstable, but the Republicans in Washington won't stand up to the NRA.

___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

There it is, the dreaded NRA boogeyman. Did you know that the ACLU, not the NRA, is trying to get the "mentally ill" question off the Form 4473? The ACLU claims that the mentally ill have gun rights, just like anybody else and should be allowed to purchase firearms. The NRA has been pushing the government about mental illness and firearm purchases since 1966. The NRA supported legislation to have the records of those judged mentally incompetent or insane added to the NICS background checks.
Legislation backed by the NRA was enacted in 1968 to deny firearms purchases to those who have been "adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution".

Tell me again about how the NRA is such a bad group.
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________


Jerry - 12/5/2019 at 04:06 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:

Anytime I see a politico fervently pushing "gun control", I think back about Leland Yee and his unabashed support for getting firearms out of the hands of the general public.
https://huffpost.com/entry/leland-yee-gun-trafficing_n_5038152

I also think about how Nancy Pelosi has a concealed carry permit when few in her district can't get one.


Anytime I see someone fervently pushing the idea that there are already too many obstacles and laws in the way of anybody getting their hands on a gun,


I don't know where you have seen that since I haven't seen anyone on this thread mention "too many obstacles" anywhere.


Stephen - 12/6/2019 at 07:31 PM

Military bases can be as deadly as schools
The one in Pensacola (4 dead others wounded) might be terrorism-related they’re saying as the shooter was a Saudi aviation student
Earlier this week, a similar incident at Pearl Harbor

Seems to hardly be news anymore - the shooting involving a UPS truck at a Fla. intersection leaving 4 dead, including a nearby motorist, is atrocious
As always, it’s the people not the guns doing the damage - it’s up to people to control guns, not vice versa

[Edited on 12/6/2019 by Stephen]


BIGV - 12/6/2019 at 08:43 PM

quote:
it’s the people not the guns doing the damage


Boom!


BrerRabbit - 12/6/2019 at 09:06 PM


Personally I feel more at ease among unarmed people than I do around folks packing heat.


gina - 12/6/2019 at 11:29 PM

quote:
Military bases can be as deadly as schools
The one in Pensacola (4 dead others wounded) might be terrorism-related they’re saying as the shooter was a Saudi aviation student
Earlier this week, a similar incident at Pearl Harbor

Seems to hardly be news anymore - the shooting involving a UPS truck at a Fla. intersection leaving 4 dead, including a nearby motorist, is atrocious
As always, it’s the people not the guns doing the damage - it’s up to people to control guns, not vice versa

[Edited on 12/6/2019 by Stephen]



It gets worse Stephen because the shooter is from Saudi Arabia, and a military man. He was here for training per middle eastern news sources. He is dead now.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/473409-trump-speaks-with-saudi- king-after-pensacola-shooting

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/473455-senator-calls-for-review-of-mili tary-programs-for-foreign-nationals-after

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/gunman-dead-opening-fire-navy-base-f lorida-navy-191206140438074.html

"The suspect used a handgun in the shooting, which took place over two floors in a classroom building at a base whose main function is training, officials said.

"Walking through the crime scene was like being on the set of a movie," Sheriff David Morgan said.

The first reports of an "active shooter" on the base came through to the Escambia County sheriff's office at about 6:51am, officials said.

A few minutes later, a sheriff's deputy fatally shot the attacker in a classroom on the base, Morgan added.

The Pensacola base, which is near Florida's border with Alabama, is a major training site for the Navy and home to its aerobatic flight demonstration squadron, the Blue Angels. The base employs about 16,000 military and 7,400 civilian personnel, according to the base's website.

"In recent weeks, 18 naval aviators and two aircrew members from the Royal Saudi Naval Forces were training with the US Navy, including a stint at Pensacola, according to a November 15 press release from the Navy. It was not clear if the suspected shooter was part of that delegation.

The delegation came under a Navy programme that offers training to US allies, known as the Naval Education and Training Security Assistance Field Activity.

A person familiar with the programme said that Saudi Air Force officers selected for military training in the US are intensely vetted by both countries.

The Saudi personnel are "hand-picked" by their military and often come from elite families, the person said, speaking to Reuters News Agency on condition of anonymity because they did not have permission to speak to a reporter. Trainees must speak excellent English, the person said."






[Edited on 12/6/2019 by gina]


gina - 12/8/2019 at 07:37 PM

The post on Pensacola may require MORE. I was going to make a cheap remark about well at least they weren't training to put any planes into any buildings but sadly there is additional info. linking the former WTC attack hijackers to THIS naval facility AND people who go to this Naval Facility are fully vetted before being allowed to come, so the post additional stuff on the shooting will be moved to Terrorism updates.

https://nypost.com/2019/12/07/pensacola-shooter-hosted-dinner-party-to-watc h-mass-shooting-videos-report/



Jerry - 12/11/2019 at 06:44 PM

quote:

Personally I feel more at ease among unarmed people than I do around folks packing heat.



WHAT? You feel you wouldn't be safe around me?


BrerRabbit - 12/11/2019 at 07:55 PM

No I am fine around armed friends. Point was I would feel uneasy in say a restaurant full of armed people, or any place where there were a lot of people. One little thing goes wrong and it's 4th of July. No thanks.


Skydog32103 - 12/12/2019 at 12:20 AM

Who can watch this video and honestly say she deserves the right to own?

https://www.wbtv.com/2019/12/10/watch-manager-catches-baby-falling-headfirs t-off-utah-store-counter/


Jerry - 12/12/2019 at 01:43 AM

quote:
Who can watch this video and honestly say she deserves the right to own?

https://www.wbtv.com/2019/12/10/watch-manager-catches-baby-falling-headfirs t-off-utah-store-counter/


Depends on how child services sees the situation. She will always have the RIGHT to purchase and own until/if she gets charged with a felony.

Now, did you mean to ask if we think she shouldn't own a firearm, that would be different.

PS: Good job Bill!!!


Stephen - 12/21/2019 at 05:40 AM

Malls in Atlanta, San Antonio, OKC - Winston-Salem N.C., Westerly RI - they’ve all had gun violence & fatalities recently - hell even a sub-human being used her car to intentionally run over a 14 year old girl in Iowa because she thought the girl was Mexican

So people don’t just use guns to kill - ask Catrina Costello - she deserves general population - in A Male Prison - for what she did


Stephen - 12/24/2019 at 06:08 AM

quote:
even a sub-human being used her car to intentionally run over a 14 year old girl in Iowa because she thought the girl was Mexican
/quote]

It’s just one of the faults in the system of justice
Knowing this slimeball is an avowed racist, they still put her back on the streets after she ran over that girl b/c, she later said herself, the girl was Mexican - she spewed out racist trash to the cops as she was being arrested, article said, & the girl was hospitalized for 2 days

This SKUNK has now been charged with a second hit and run in which a 12 year old boy was injured, also DUI 2nd
Yet the county prosecutor is saying a hate crime doesn’t apply in her case
So she gets another citation to appear in court
& goes back to her mudhole>booze>car keys & the next attack
People like that belong in jail, Period

[Edited on 12/24/2019 by Stephen]


Stephen - 12/24/2019 at 06:35 AM

Hopefully someone in that Iowa town won’t have to die before this individual is put away
That’s what happened earlier tho year in NH

Oh they put her away alright (45 years to life)
But not before she killed her elderly neighbors & their dog by intentionally running them over as they were out walking

This after years of unprovoked criminal harassment of this couple, to the point where they’d sold their house & were planning to move

Cops/neighbors knew about her, restraining orders were issued yadadada
Did nothing
Terribly discouraging to see the legal system fail so bad in cases like this

[Edited on 12/24/2019 by Stephen]


Stephen - 12/30/2019 at 02:43 AM

This Time, They Fought Back
Some deranged demonic loser slithered into a church service in White Settlement TX, and murdered 2 parishioners
A member of the congregation then returned fire, killing the assailant

Where have we gone so far wrong as to make religion the lightning rod for hatred & senseless violence?

The other crime today is also sickly - photos showed the rotten skunk in handcuffs after he stabbed 5 people at a Hanukkah celebration in Monsey NY

I know that violence in religion is not new - countries have gone to war over it
Now that we have “hate crimes,” people of faith seem to have become ready targets
No end to it....


BIGV - 12/30/2019 at 05:17 AM

quote:
A member of the congregation then returned fire, killing the assailant


This is a good thing!


lukester420 - 12/30/2019 at 11:28 AM

quote:
quote:
A member of the congregation then returned fire, killing the assailant


This is a good thing!


Yeah shootouts in houses of worship. Great thing.
I get it though, this is the 1/100 instances where a “good guy with a gun” actually did something, be sure to cite this instance as the norm.


Skydog32103 - 12/30/2019 at 01:49 PM

2 people were murdered while praying in church. Countless others who witnessed it are rightfully traumatized. And I highly doubt the hero who took out the shooter feels good about what happened. The family of the shooter is now suffering. There are ways to regulate gun ownership to reduce these incidents, but any proposal will cause the biggest babies of our country to throw a fit, panic, and make it about themselves and how they are the ones who are actually losing something - and murdered children in school doesn't even change their ignorant minds.



[Edited on 12/30/2019 by Skydog32103]


BIGV - 12/30/2019 at 03:16 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
A member of the congregation then returned fire, killing the assailant


This is a good thing!


Yeah shootouts in houses of worship. Great thing.
I get it though, this is the 1/100 instances where a “good guy with a gun” actually did something, be sure to cite this instance as the norm.


Yeah, I guess this is like a "worst case scenario" for the left?...What's the old saying?..."If it saves one life"?...Well. how many were saved here?....When saving INNOCENT people from a mentally deranged lunatic, does it really matter how this is accomplished?...I'll wager the other parishioners and their families are pretty damned pleased their friend took action....

I repeat, this is a good thing and if we saw more of it there would be far less attempts at mass shootings.


Skydog32103 - 12/30/2019 at 03:45 PM

quote:
When saving INNOCENT people from a mentally deranged lunatic, does it really matter how this is accomplished?


Wow, look at that - when it comes to gun control measures, you have an extreme left point of view about it.


BIGV - 12/30/2019 at 03:56 PM

quote:
quote:
When saving INNOCENT people from a mentally deranged lunatic, does it really matter how this is accomplished?


Wow, look at that - when it comes to gun control measures, you have an extreme left point of view about it.


Is it OK with you that this man's actions WITH A GUN, saved lives?

Yes or No?


Skydog32103 - 12/30/2019 at 04:03 PM

quote:
Is it OK with you that this man's actions WITH A GUN, saved lives?

Yes or No?


My only point to you is that liberals also want to save innocent lives from deranged lunatics, and we don't think it matters how it's accomplished, so we agree on that.


porkchopbob - 12/30/2019 at 05:18 PM

quote:
When saving INNOCENT people from a mentally deranged lunatic, does it really matter how this is accomplished?

If it didn't matter to you "how", you would also be ok if neither person had a gun. Especially keeping them away from the "mentally deranged".

Also, can the original poster please change the despicable thread title since their child death prediction was super wrong? I'm tired of seeing it when I want to talk football.


lukester420 - 12/31/2019 at 11:13 AM

quote:
quote:
When saving INNOCENT people from a mentally deranged lunatic, does it really matter how this is accomplished?

If it didn't matter to you "how", you would also be ok if neither person had a gun. Especially keeping them away from the "mentally deranged".

Also, can the original poster please change the despicable thread title since their child death prediction was super wrong? I'm tired of seeing it when I want to talk football.


Good luck with this crowd admitting being wrong, Obama still isn’t an Uhhhmurrrican citizen in their eyes


BIGV - 12/31/2019 at 05:19 PM

quote:
quote:
When saving INNOCENT people from a mentally deranged lunatic, does it really matter how this is accomplished?



If it didn't matter to you "how", you would also be ok if neither person had a gun. Especially keeping them away from the "mentally deranged"..


You don't seem to be "OK" with the fact that yet another tragic day was cut short short and who knows how many lives were saved by a very brave man with a gun.

Fact: A "Mentally deranged" individual somehow acquired a gun and walked into a house of worship with the intent of killing innocent people and was sent to his maker by a law abiding citizen.


Stephen - 12/31/2019 at 05:54 PM

By all accounts there’s been only relief and gratitude for the presence of the armed parishioners who stood up to this madman

Yes it’s an ironic crying shame that strict security measures must now be taken at places of worship - not to mention unmentionable conduct among some of their officiates....
But in this case, those who gave this creep a taste of his own medicine, are only heroes


porkchopbob - 12/31/2019 at 05:56 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
When saving INNOCENT people from a mentally deranged lunatic, does it really matter how this is accomplished?


If it didn't matter to you "how", you would also be ok if neither person had a gun. Especially keeping them away from the "mentally deranged"..


You don't seem to be "OK" with the fact that yet another tragic day was cut short short and who knows how many lives were saved by a very brave man with a gun.


You presume much, as usual. I'm glad more people are safe and a murderer is no longer a threat, but would prefer we try harder to keep guns away from deranged lunatics in the first place.

I just pointed out that if you don't care how, you would also be ok with neither person in that room having a gun. Rather than try to understand that, you pivoted using a straw man argument. Try to stick to what people write, because you're either really bad at reading in between the lines or you purposefully misrepresent.

[Edited on 12/31/2019 by porkchopbob]


BrerRabbit - 12/31/2019 at 06:23 PM

quote:
By all accounts there’s been only relief and gratitude for the presence of the armed parishioners who stood up to this madman

Yes it’s an ironic crying shame that strict security measures must now be taken at places of worship - not to mention unmentionable conduct among some of their officiates....
But in this case, those who gave this creep a taste of his own medicine, are only heroes


Wow, sympathy, respect, reflection, acknowledgement of irony. The miracle of the bicameral brain.








BrerRabbit - 12/31/2019 at 07:11 PM

quote:
Yeah, I guess this is like a "worst case scenario" for the left?


You need professional help.


BIGV - 12/31/2019 at 09:16 PM

quote:
quote:
Yeah, I guess this is like a "worst case scenario" for the left?


You need professional help.


Thanks Doc.

Happy New Year!

quote:
Rather than try to understand that, you pivoted using a straw man argument. Try to stick to what people write, because you're either really bad at reading in between the lines or you purposefully misrepresent.


Yada, yada yada...followed by a big long yawn.


porkchopbob - 12/31/2019 at 09:33 PM

quote:
quote:
Rather than try to understand that, you pivoted using a straw man argument. Try to stick to what people write, because you're either really bad at reading in between the lines or you purposefully misrepresent.

Yada, yada yada...followed by a big long yawn.

Agreed. BabyV needs his nap.


BrerRabbit - 12/31/2019 at 09:53 PM

quote:
Thanks Doc.


Nope. Whatever is eating you is way above my pay grade.


BIGV - 12/31/2019 at 09:59 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Rather than try to understand that, you pivoted using a straw man argument. Try to stick to what people write, because you're either really bad at reading in between the lines or you purposefully misrepresent.

Yada, yada yada...followed by a big long yawn.

Agreed. BabyV needs his nap.


You guys and your little club are too funny. Disagree with you in anyway shape or form.....


Happy New Year


lukester420 - 12/31/2019 at 11:05 PM

“Little club”
meehhhahahahahah BIIIG Man strikes again, Always the size queen. Happy New Year Snowflake!


Jerry - 1/1/2020 at 04:43 AM

quote:
quote:
When saving INNOCENT people from a mentally deranged lunatic, does it really matter how this is accomplished?

If it didn't matter to you "how", you would also be ok if neither person had a gun. Especially keeping them away from the "mentally deranged".

Also, can the original poster please change the despicable thread title since their child death prediction was super wrong? I'm tired of seeing it when I want to talk football.


Why would you want to talk football on this thread? I could change the title if the real need arises, but the prediction was right. One week after the school board vote was held, a shooting happened right there in Baltimore. Also, there is nothing in the title about child death.


BIGV - 1/1/2020 at 05:14 AM

quote:
“Little club”
meehhhahahahahah BIIIG Man strikes again, Always the size queen. Happy New Year Snowflake!


Hope the new Year brings all the good stuff


Jerry - 1/1/2020 at 05:19 AM

quote:
quote:
“Little club”
meehhhahahahahah BIIIG Man strikes again, Always the size queen. Happy New Year Snowflake!


Hope the new Year brings all the good stuff


Back out to all posters, even those who don't know how to read.


porkchopbob - 1/1/2020 at 06:12 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Rather than try to understand that, you pivoted using a straw man argument. Try to stick to what people write, because you're either really bad at reading in between the lines or you purposefully misrepresent.

Yada, yada yada...followed by a big long yawn.

Agreed. BabyV needs his nap.


You guys and your little club are too funny. Disagree with you in anyway shape or form.....



Club? You will have to explain that one. Disagree? No, you simply misunderstood, as usual, by a long shot.


porkchopbob - 1/1/2020 at 06:14 AM

quote:
Why would you want to talk football on this thread?

The Whipping Post has an NFL thread.


porkchopbob - 1/1/2020 at 06:16 AM

quote:
Also, there is nothing in the title about child death.

So "School Shooting" only refers to faculty? Gotcha.

quote:
One week after the school board vote was held, a shooting happened right there in Baltimore

There were several other shootings in rural US prior to that.


Skydog32103 - 1/1/2020 at 05:18 PM

quote:
Disagree with you in anyway shape or form.....


No, you're just being called out and you don't like it. Linking this to the left isn't normal, so I'm with Brer.



[Edited on 1/1/2020 by Skydog32103]


Skydog32103 - 1/1/2020 at 05:22 PM

quote:
Rather than try to understand that, you pivoted using a straw man argument. Try to stick to what people write, because you're either really bad at reading in between the lines or you purposefully misrepresent.


quote:
Yada, yada yada...followed by a big long yawn.


Notice, there is no denial.



[Edited on 1/1/2020 by Skydog32103]


Skydog32103 - 1/1/2020 at 05:27 PM

quote:
Why would you want to talk football on this thread?


He didn't insinuate this at all. When you got to the Whipping Post page, there is a list of thread titles, and we see this grotesque title every time we come to the Whipping Post to select a thread. But you know this, and just want to be ignorant.

quote:
I could change the title if the real need arises, but the prediction was right. One week after the school board vote was held, a shooting happened right there in Baltimore.


Your prediction and hypothesis is garbage nonsense, based on a bunch of fake news, like our leader tells us, so wake up. Any correlation you make between a law being the reason for a shooting, is nothing but foolish nonsense, but go ahead and brand yourself with it for all I care. Makes me happy to see you wear that badge.



[Edited on 1/1/2020 by Skydog32103]


Jerry - 1/2/2020 at 01:15 AM

quote:
quote:
Why would you want to talk football on this thread?


He didn't insinuate this at all. When you got to the Whipping Post page, there is a list of thread titles, and we see this grotesque title every time we come to the Whipping Post to select a thread. But you know this, and just want to be ignorant.

quote:
I could change the title if the real need arises, but the prediction was right. One week after the school board vote was held, a shooting happened right there in Baltimore.


Your prediction and hypothesis is garbage nonsense, based on a bunch of fake news, like our leader tells us, so wake up. Any correlation you make between a law being the reason for a shooting, is nothing but foolish nonsense, but go ahead and brand yourself with it for all I care. Makes me happy to see you wear that badge.



[Edited on 1/1/2020 by Skydog32103]


Oh, Shame,Fear, and Agony on me. You've discovered my plan for world dominance by duping people with actual facts and not rumors, lies, and deceit.

For Porkchopbob, yes, there was one actual school shooting in the eight days between the two votes in Baltimore. so i apologize for the mistake.

For my penitence in the mistake i will let you chose the new title. How about that?


Stephen - 1/2/2020 at 02:55 AM

Your prediction was largely correct tho, there was NYE gun violence in Baltimore, also St. Louis, 3 deaths total

How about “Baltimore,” that’s a generic ‘code word’ title that applies - just a hellhole there apparently, w/one of highest per capita murder rates in the US
Or just, “Schools, Churches & Malls”

[Edited on 1/2/2020 by Stephen]


Skydog32103 - 1/2/2020 at 04:29 PM

quote:
How about “Baltimore,” that’s a generic ‘code word’ title that applies - just a hellhole there apparently, w/one of highest per capita murder rates in the US


I’d like to see you go to Baltimore and tell the residents there that their home is a hell hole. Id pay to see that video.


BrerRabbit - 1/2/2020 at 06:06 PM

quote:
Yeah, I guess this is like a "worst case scenario" for the left?


Dont mind me, just keeping this psychotoxic beauty topped.

By this logic, what would be a "worst case scenario" for the Right?




Stephen - 1/2/2020 at 06:22 PM

Doubt they’d disagree -

quote:

At 347, Baltimore broke its per capita homicide rate last week and is the 2nd highest ever recorded
in a city of 600G residents that’s 57 per 100G residents
By contrast, NYC (8 million residents) had 306 homicides through Dec. 15
Baltimore’s 2019 violence eclipses its 1993 record, when there were 353 killings but it was much more populous before years of population exodus
quote:


Jerry - 1/2/2020 at 06:23 PM

quote:
quote:
Yeah, I guess this is like a "worst case scenario" for the left?


Dont mind me, just keeping this psychotoxic beauty topped.

By this logic, what would be a "worst case scenario" for the Right?




I think Baltimore is just a worst case scenario on how to not run a city. Corruption in city government has been going on for many decades. Ask Nancy Pelosi since she was in the middle of it most of her early life.


Skydog32103 - 1/2/2020 at 06:35 PM

quote:
Doubt they’d disagree -


But you wouldn't say it to their faces.


Stephen - 1/4/2020 at 05:35 AM

quote:
quote:
even a sub-human being used her car to intentionally run over a 14 year old girl in Iowa because she thought the girl was Mexican
/quote]

It’s just one of the faults in the system of justice
Knowing this slimeball is an avowed racist, they still put her back on the streets after she ran over that girl b/c, she later said herself, the girl was Mexican - she spewed out racist trash to the cops as she was being arrested, article said, & the girl was hospitalized for 2 days

This SKUNK has now been charged with a second hit and run in which a 12 year old boy was injured, also DUI 2nd
Yet the county prosecutor is saying a hate crime doesn’t apply in her case
So she gets another citation to appear in court
& goes back to her mudhole>booze>car keys & the next attack
People like that belong in jail, Period

[Edited on 12/24/2019 by Stephen]


That was incorrect, they did get her off the streets & behind bars, setting bail at $1 million - applause

Update, her public defender says she has a mental disorder, is incompetent to stand trial & wants a competency evaluation - which the judge granted - no applause this time, what is this bull, Obviously she has a mental disorder

Just keep this racist pig locked up & the bail intact

[Edited on 1/4/2020 by Stephen]


Skydog32103 - 1/5/2020 at 01:08 PM

quote:
quote:
Yeah, I guess this is like a "worst case scenario" for the left?



quote:
Dont mind me, just keeping this psychotoxic beauty topped.


Same.



[Edited on 1/5/2020 by Skydog32103]


Stephen - 1/13/2020 at 03:10 PM

12 Shot, Five Dead in eight separate shootings over the weekend in Baltimore - I know, it’s not news - it’s not ‘fake’ news, they did actually happen - just not noteworthy news in a nation numbed to gun violence,

Certainly nothing new in a city overrun by lawlessness & gun violence - it’s the everyday humdrum of things down there - incredible


BrerRabbit - 1/13/2020 at 04:07 PM

quote:
12 Shot, Five Dead in eight separate shootings over the weekend in Baltimore


Best case scenario for the right.


BIGV - 1/13/2020 at 05:04 PM

quote:
12 Shot, Five Dead in eight separate shootings over the weekend in Baltimore


This is a city of 610,000 people, which neighborhoods are facing the most violence?


Stephen - 1/13/2020 at 05:15 PM

Article doesn’t specify - one was “in the northeastern section of the city,” 2 others in “northwest Baltimore & northeast Baltimore........” etc


BrerRabbit - 1/13/2020 at 07:05 PM

When you can't come right out and say it you gotta be crafty. Must be a lot more of a fun challenge stealth trolling "the Little Club" on Whipping Post than hang out on Stormfront where everyone agrees with you.


Skydog32103 - 1/13/2020 at 07:09 PM

quote:
12 Shot, Five Dead in eight separate shootings over the weekend in Baltimore - I know, it’s not news - it’s not ‘fake’ news, they did actually happen - just not noteworthy news in a nation numbed to gun violence,

Certainly nothing new in a city overrun by lawlessness & gun violence - it’s the everyday humdrum of things down there - incredible


quote:
which neighborhoods are facing the most violence?


Watching you two trying to discuss black on black violence in Baltimore, while relating it to school shootings, is just sad. No need to speak in code...if you want to talk about black on black crime in cities like Baltimore, Philadelphia, or Chicago, just do it. Stop hiding.


BrerRabbit - 1/13/2020 at 07:18 PM

I think he was just asking which neighborhoods were most violent out of the sympathy and basic understanding of the root causes of inner city strife he gained from reading "White Rage". Asking leading questions to get us to figure it out for ourselves, like any good teacher would.


Stephen - 1/13/2020 at 07:36 PM

No one is trolling or trying to hide anything, I’m quoting a newspaper article about the latest in ongoing violence in Baltimore - it says nothing about race, that’s just your assumption of what it’s about - read it yourself if you want to clarify anything


Skydog32103 - 1/13/2020 at 07:46 PM

I forgot that this thread was about how Democrats’ flawed values contribute to school shootings, my bad. Continue!


BrerRabbit - 1/13/2020 at 09:04 PM

Your bad indeed ! Muleman would have been all over this thread to inform you that you are a genocidal bloodthirsty liberal who wants to commit genocide on inner city blacks.


BrerRabbit - 1/13/2020 at 10:31 PM

quote:
No one is trolling or trying to hide anything


You aren't. Others most certainly are. My post wasn't directed at you. The stealth bullcrap is coming from elsewhere. You are on the level. You strike me as one of the few who are genuinely concerned and aren't using shootings to fuel a macabre agenda.


[Edited on 1/13/2020 by BrerRabbit]


BIGV - 1/13/2020 at 11:15 PM

quote:
Article doesn’t specify - one was “in the northeastern section of the city,” 2 others in “northwest Baltimore & northeast Baltimore........” etc


Thanks Stephen.


Skydog32103 - 1/14/2020 at 02:17 AM

quote:
I’m quoting a newspaper article about the latest in ongoing violence in Baltimore - it says nothing about race, that’s just your assumption of what it’s about


I wasn’t referring to the author of the article, and I wouldn’t think it did mention race. I’m referring to the ongoing dishonest and deceitful trend among right wing outlets and their audience to immediately point towards inner-city gang violence in prominently black cities, as a way to dismiss, undermine, and criticize Democratic ideas on gun control. It’s a sleazy and cowardly way of expressing the opinion that Democratic laws are to blame for violence in poor black communities.

If that doesn’t describe you, then it was probably a bad idea to revive a thread that is trying to make that exact trash point.


Stephen - 1/14/2020 at 11:35 AM

It has nothing to do with political affiliation/agendas, left/right leanings or black on black violence - no one ever said anything about that until you did, not myself, Brer or the article

Would love to visit the Babe Ruth Birthplace & Museum - the Bambino was born in Baltimore - would have to think twice tho - who wouldn’t

hopefully the museum doesn’t suffer from low patronage b/c of What The Article Says, Is rampant violence in Baltimore - city officials cited statistics, not politics or a racial divide, in making this claim in the article

Best wishes, good day to all

[Edited on 1/14/2020 by Stephen]


Skydog32103 - 1/14/2020 at 12:53 PM

quote:
no one ever said anything about that until you did


Exactly. Now you get it. It's my observation of a cowardly act that has been going on for years among the right wing. If that's not what you were doing, then fine, but this thread is an exact example of it.



[Edited on 1/14/2020 by Skydog32103]


Jerry - 1/15/2020 at 06:12 PM

quote:
quote:
I’m quoting a newspaper article about the latest in ongoing violence in Baltimore - it says nothing about race, that’s just your assumption of what it’s about


I wasn’t referring to the author of the article, and I wouldn’t think it did mention race. I’m referring to the ongoing dishonest and deceitful trend among right wing outlets and their audience to immediately point towards inner-city gang violence in prominently black cities, as a way to dismiss, undermine, and criticize Democratic ideas on gun control. It’s a sleazy and cowardly way of expressing the opinion that Democratic laws are to blame for violence in poor black communities.

If that doesn’t describe you, then it was probably a bad idea to revive a thread that is trying to make that exact trash point.


Skydog, I don't get where you think this is going on. Could you perhaps quote where you see this happening?

Where exactly is this

[Edited on 1/15/2020 by Jerry]


Stephen - 1/15/2020 at 07:58 PM

quote:
quote:
no one ever said anything about that until you did


Exactly. Now you get it. It's my observation of a cowardly act that has been going on for years among the right wing. If that's not what you were doing, then fine, but this thread is an exact example of it.



[Edited on 1/14/2020 by Skydog32103]


No I Don’t Get It
I’d ask what “cowardly act” you could possibly be referring to, but your reply would make no sense nor relate to the topic

Jerry I wouldn’t bother following up on whatever Skydog03210 is talking about - it’s all right wing this, left wing that - he called me trash b/c of newspaper info I posted about Baltimore - it’s nothing


Stephen - 1/15/2020 at 08:11 PM

Reverting back to topic, one student dead, two arrested in latest high school shooting, this one in the Houston area


Jerry - 1/15/2020 at 08:12 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
no one ever said anything about that until you did


Exactly. Now you get it. It's my observation of a cowardly act that has been going on for years among the right wing. If that's not what you were doing, then fine, but this thread is an exact example of it.



[Edited on 1/14/2020 by Skydog32103]


No I Don’t Get It
I’d ask what “cowardly act” you could possibly be referring to, but your reply would make no sense nor relate to the topic

Jerry I wouldn’t bother following up on whatever Skydog03210 is talking about - it’s all right wing this, left wing that - he called me trash b/c of newspaper info I posted about Baltimore - it’s nothing


Actually, I think we could let the thread die and just ignore him.


Skydog32103 - 1/16/2020 at 02:22 AM

quote:
this one in the Houston area


Keep it up, chump. I see you.


Jerry - 1/16/2020 at 02:38 AM

quote:
quote:
this one in the Houston area


Keep it up, chump. I see you.


I remember a poster that acted, and posted a lot like you do now. Possibly you could be him, or just copying his style, just remember that he was banned when he went too far over the line of decency.


Skydog32103 - 1/16/2020 at 02:53 AM

Thank you I think?

I think you are well aware that the right always brought up gun violence in Chicago quite a bit whenever Democrats wanted to propose ideas to stop suburban mass shootings. It was everywhere in the media and on this very site. Now it's Baltimore because Cummings was from there. I think it's a cheap way to say that Democratic leaders, like Cummings, are bad at stopping gun violence, and therefore should be dismissed when trying to propose logical common sense gun laws.

Don't mind me, I'm just watching from afar.


Jerry - 1/16/2020 at 03:39 AM

quote:
Thank you I think?

I think you are well aware that the right always brought up gun violence in Chicago quite a bit whenever Democrats wanted to propose ideas to stop suburban mass shootings. It was everywhere in the media and on this very site. Now it's Baltimore because Cummings was from there. I think it's a cheap way to say that Democratic leaders, like Cummings, are bad at stopping gun violence, and therefore should be dismissed when trying to propose logical common sense gun laws.

Don't mind me, I'm just watching from afar.


You are welcome.
Chicago, New York, and other Democratic held towns were often brought up since the "logical common sense gun laws" proposed were often already in effect in those towns. Hopefully it was to show that the proposed legislation didn't work there, so why did anyone think it would work elsewhere.
One of the "logical common sense gun laws" that are being proposed by some Democrat candidates is to outlaw bump stocks? Did you know that bump stocks are already illegal? Some are proposing laws to ban those convicted of domestic violence from purchasing firearms? Did you know that this is already a Federal Law?
Some propose to ban the sale of automatic weapons. That already, with conditions, falls under the National Firearms Act.
Democrats continuously propose laws that are already on the books. Many Democrats show no knowledge on what they are proposing legislation on.
It seems that they also don't realize that criminals, by the definition of the word, don't follow laws.
Take a look at this and ask yourself if you would trust legislation by people who show they don't know what they are talking about, by talking about it.
ie "heat seeking bullets" "30 caliber clip that fire 30 bullets in half a second", "its legal to hunt humans"?? "perfectly functioning weapons that fire with no ammo"

https://twitter.com/ARmastrangelo/status/968165387694235648

Click on the center of the video to hear audio.

Look at what is being called "logical common sense gun laws", compare it to what is already on the books and you will see what I'm posting about.


Bhawk - 1/16/2020 at 04:50 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
I’m quoting a newspaper article about the latest in ongoing violence in Baltimore - it says nothing about race, that’s just your assumption of what it’s about


I wasn’t referring to the author of the article, and I wouldn’t think it did mention race. I’m referring to the ongoing dishonest and deceitful trend among right wing outlets and their audience to immediately point towards inner-city gang violence in prominently black cities, as a way to dismiss, undermine, and criticize Democratic ideas on gun control. It’s a sleazy and cowardly way of expressing the opinion that Democratic laws are to blame for violence in poor black communities.

If that doesn’t describe you, then it was probably a bad idea to revive a thread that is trying to make that exact trash point.


Skydog, I don't get where you think this is going on. Could you perhaps quote where you see this happening?

Where exactly is this



LOL. This response belongs in the Purposefully Obtuse Hall of Fame.


BIGV - 1/16/2020 at 07:26 PM

quote:
I think you are well aware that the right always brought up gun violence in Chicago quite a bit whenever Democrats wanted to propose ideas to stop suburban mass shootings. It was everywhere in the media and on this very site. Now it's Baltimore because Cummings was from there. I think it's a cheap way to say that Democratic leaders, like Cummings, are bad at stopping gun violence, and therefore should be dismissed when trying to propose logical common sense gun laws..


I think it's fair to ask "Why are these cities at the forefront of this issue"?...Why are not Bozeman, Mt., Portland Maine & Des Moines IA, included in this discussion?... This is a reality that the left does not want to face.


BrerRabbit - 1/16/2020 at 07:36 PM

quote:
I think it's fair to ask "Why are these cities at the forefront of this issue"?...Why are not Bozeman, Mt., Portland Maine & Des Moines IA, included in this discussion?


How about telling us your answer first. Then we will share ours. Instead of your constant suggestive questions, just let it out man.


BIGV - 1/16/2020 at 07:48 PM

quote:
quote:
I think it's fair to ask "Why are these cities at the forefront of this issue"?...Why are not Bozeman, Mt., Portland Maine & Des Moines IA, included in this discussion?


How about telling us your answer first. Then we will share ours. Instead of your constant suggestive questions, just let it out man.


Because my answer is straightforward and is in direct conflict with what the left deems "PC"...

And your response will be 100% predictable and will include "labels"

You know and I know it. Why the dance?


BrerRabbit - 1/16/2020 at 07:52 PM

quote:
Because my answer is straightforward . . .


Ok, so you are not going to offer your straightforward answer. Why are you expecting answers from others on a question you won't answer?

Looks a discussion D.O.A. to me.


BIGV - 1/16/2020 at 07:57 PM

quote:
quote:
Because my answer is straightforward . . .


Ok, so you are not going to offer your straightforward answer. Why are you expecting answers from others on a question you won't answer?

Looks a discussion D.O.A. to me.


Economically depressed cities where education, career and family are not priorities.

This is the result.


BrerRabbit - 1/16/2020 at 07:59 PM

quote:
Economically depressed cities where education, career and family are not priorities.



Why the dance? You mean black areas.


BIGV - 1/16/2020 at 08:17 PM

quote:
quote:
Economically depressed cities where education, career and family are not priorities.



Why the dance? You mean black areas.


No. You mean Black areas. I stated clearly above where I thought the issue was. YOU brought color to this.

Exactly the response I anticipated. Your assumption and yours alone.


BrerRabbit - 1/16/2020 at 08:31 PM

Oh sorry. My bad. Just looked like you needed some help to be straightforward and stop dancing.


BIGV - 1/16/2020 at 08:36 PM

quote:
Just looked like you needed some help to be straightforward and stop dancing.


No "help" needed. You are describing a "Truth" as the left sees it and can therefore label it. It must be racist!

Just as I predicted.


Bhawk - 1/16/2020 at 08:36 PM

The implication was quite clear, as such things usually are.


BrerRabbit - 1/16/2020 at 08:39 PM

"Hoisted by his own petard," as the old saying goes. lol


BIGV - 1/16/2020 at 08:44 PM

quote:
The implication was quite clear, as such things usually are.


To you and your narrative.... I mean your vision is the only one, right? I have always and will continue to believe in the positives behind the value of Education, Career and Family.

Label that anyway you please.


BrerRabbit - 1/16/2020 at 08:45 PM

quote:
No. You mean Black areas.


Nope, I haven't answered your question yet. We were still working on trying to interpret your "straightforward" answer!


Skydog32103 - 1/16/2020 at 08:56 PM

quote:
I think it's fair to ask "Why are these cities at the forefront of this issue"?...Why are not Bozeman, Mt., Portland Maine & Des Moines IA, included in this discussion?... This is a reality that the left does not want to face.



Baltimore and Chicago are NOT at the forefront of mass shootings. The onus is on you to explain why you make that connection.




BrerRabbit - 1/16/2020 at 08:58 PM

So, do you think people in economically depressed cities where education, career and family are not priorities are to blame for their situation due to inherent character flaws?


Skydog32103 - 1/16/2020 at 09:04 PM

quote:
Because my answer is straightforward and is in direct conflict with what the left deems "PC"...


quote:
Economically depressed cities where education, career and family are not priorities.

This is the result.


Can you explain why your answer above would be viewed as politically incorrect by the left?


BrerRabbit - 1/16/2020 at 09:05 PM

Because it is straightforward.


BrerRabbit - 1/16/2020 at 09:05 PM

Whatever man, you are so busted.


gina - 1/16/2020 at 09:14 PM

Not sure what is going on down there, but it isn't good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVgG95VCcxE



Bhawk - 1/16/2020 at 09:37 PM

quote:
quote:
The implication was quite clear, as such things usually are.


To you and your narrative.... I mean your vision is the only one, right? I have always and will continue to believe in the positives behind the value of Education, Career and Family.

Label that anyway you please.


I don’t have a narrative. I’m reading what you typed.

Of course we see the usual smug “You just don’t like that I have a different opinion” nonsense that you somehow continually believe that no one sees through.

You’ve been posting for years how little you think of immigrants and the poor. “Education, career and family” plays off just about every single implied racist statement going back fifty years or more, which everyone knows, including you. You know it or you wouldn’t have tried to throw it back at someone calling you out on it.

As a matter of fact, you typed “Education, career and family” on purpose to see what response you’d get.

“It’s not my fault if I imply racist statements and you all hear it as racist. I just have a different opinion and you don’t like it.” Isn’t that about right?

What you never seem to understand is that no one really cares if you have an opinion or not. It’s yours. You have every right to it. Have it. Post it. Say it. Live it. Be it. Own it.

Now, someone disagreeing with it doesn’t mean that disagreement comes from the point that you merely have a differing opinion and that somehow you have convinced yourself that’s the only reason anyone would dare disagree with you in the first place.

Your opinion is yours and you have every right to it. Me thinking your opinion is awful harms you in no way, no matter how much you wish it to be so.




Stephen - 1/16/2020 at 09:51 PM

quote:
quote:
I think it's fair to ask "Why are these cities at the forefront of this issue"?...Why are not Bozeman, Mt., Portland Maine & Des Moines IA, included in this discussion?... This is a reality that the left does not want to face.



Baltimore and Chicago are NOT at the forefront of mass shootings. The onus is on you to explain why you make that connection.




The confusion might lie in the definitions
Baltimore was at the forefront last year with 348 homicides, the most violent year ever on a per capita basis

In terms of mass shootings, true, Baltimore may not be - unsure about Chicago - completely lost about the “left” & “right”
Are homicides & mass shootings one & the same - if so, could that explain statistical info getting tangled up/misinterpreted etc


BrerRabbit - 1/17/2020 at 12:12 AM

quote:
. . .YOU brought color to this.


Of course I did. I am the Whipping Post Leading Racist. A badge of honor earned the hard way from years of Mulebarf.

[Edited on 1/17/2020 by BrerRabbit]


Skydog32103 - 1/17/2020 at 01:05 AM

quote:
The confusion might lie in the definitions
Baltimore was at the forefront last year with 348 homicides, the most violent year ever on a per capita basis

In terms of mass shootings, true, Baltimore may not be - unsure about Chicago - completely lost about the “left” & “right”
Are homicides & mass shootings one & the same - if so, could that explain statistical info getting tangled up/misinterpreted etc


Some may be confused, sure. But when we hear horror stories of innocent men, women, and children being slaughtered like sheep in churches, schools, theatres, clubs, and festivals, there's no logical reason to immediately point to inner city gun violence in black communities, but it happened frequently on Fox News, and right here. Are you denying this?


Stephen - 1/17/2020 at 03:03 AM

Probably missing something, but IMO it’s a different conversation, Skydog32103 - never said gun violence was restricted just to black communities in inner cities - was just pointing out the horrific crime rate in Baltimore - didn’t have the other atrocities you mentioned in mind when doing so - I don’t watch Fox News

Brad Marchand is left wing, David Pastrnak right wing - that’s the extent of my knowledge about that - other than one means liberal, the other conservative - overall, am not the brightest crayon in the box on this end of things

Most recently, “Federal officials have charged another Baltimore detective with corruption in a rogue unit....allegedly planted a BB gun on a suspect, then lied to a federal grand jury about it”

This kind of stuff is what I decry in mentioning Baltimore - all the best, hope that clarifies things

[Edited on 1/17/2020 by Stephen]


Skydog32103 - 1/17/2020 at 03:44 AM

quote:
Probably missing something, but IMO it’s a different conversation, Skydog32103 - never said gun violence was restricted just to inner cities - was just pointing out the horrific crime rate in Baltimore - I don’t watch Fox News - didn’t have the other atrocities you mentioned in mind when doing so

Brad Marchand is left wing, David Pastrnak right wing - that’s the extent of my knowledge about that - other than one means liberal, the other conservative - overall, am not the brightest crayon in the box on this end of things

Most recently, “Federal officials have charged another Baltimore detective with corruption in a rogue unit....allegedly planted a BB gun on a suspect, then lied to a federal grand jury about it”

This kind of stuff is what I decry in mentioning Baltimore


Well at least you didn't deny my point. As for your point, I guess my question is, why are you taking an interest in Baltimore in a thread about school shootings and Democratic leadership? After he made that point, you have made numerous posts about Baltimore, as if to underscore Jerry's point.


Stephen - 1/17/2020 at 04:19 AM

The part about the Democratic leadership I missed, but you make a valid point - I have kinda beaten into the ground, a topic that had little to do with the thread - got me cranky reading about how bad it was & for some reason posted it here, the lone connection being to Jerry’s original prediction
Not keen to predict the next school shooting, it’ll come soon enough



[Edited on 1/17/2020 by Stephen]


BrerRabbit - 1/17/2020 at 05:31 AM

quote:
. . .got me cranky reading about how bad it was & for some reason posted it here


np man, you are probably the only person here who actually cares about this issue at face value and is not a jaded heartless bastard using it for a political springboard. We don't see genuine concern here much so forgive our skepticism.

We're all like "wow, this guy actually gives a sh!t and is taking it to heart. Gotta be an act."


Skydog32103 - 1/17/2020 at 12:54 PM

quote:
The part about the Democratic leadership I missed, but you make a valid point - I have kinda beaten into the ground, a topic that had little to do with the thread - got me cranky reading about how bad it was & for some reason posted it here, the lone connection being to Jerry’s original prediction
Not keen to predict the next school shooting, it’ll come soon enough


Fair points.

I think it's clear that the threat of school shootings exists everywhere, such as Newtown, CT, Bozeman, Mt., Portland, ME, Des Moines, IA, Orlando, FL, Baltimore, MD......we don't have to list the towns and cities that have suffered this.


Skydog32103 - 1/17/2020 at 01:05 PM

quote:
I think you are well aware that the right always brought up gun violence in Chicago quite a bit whenever Democrats wanted to propose ideas to stop suburban mass shootings. It was everywhere in the media and on this very site. Now it's Baltimore because Cummings was from there. I think it's a cheap way to say that Democratic leaders, like Cummings, are bad at stopping gun violence, and therefore should be dismissed when trying to propose logical common sense gun laws..


quote:
I think it's fair to ask "Why are these cities at the forefront of this issue"?...Why are not Bozeman, Mt., Portland Maine & Des Moines IA, included in this discussion?... This is a reality that the left does not want to face.
quote:
Because my answer is straightforward and is in direct conflict with what the left deems "PC"...



quote:
Economically depressed cities where education, career and family are not priorities.

This is the result.


quote:
No. You mean Black areas. I stated clearly above where I thought the issue was. YOU brought color to this.

Exactly the response I anticipated. Your assumption and yours alone.


The conversation was finally getting honest and we were getting somewhere. Was hoping to hear from you....if you aren't bringing race into the equation, then can you explain why your answer above would be viewed as politically incorrect by the left?

And why did you insinuate that Baltimore and Chicago are at the forefront of mass shootings when they are not?


BrerRabbit - 1/17/2020 at 03:14 PM

That is probably about as close as you are gonna get.


Stephen - 1/17/2020 at 04:08 PM

A story out of Madison Wisc. demonstrates the difficulty of getting a handle on gun violence in schools
In this case, the system worked - for the most part
It’s an informative thought-provoking read describing the whole process, especially the purchase of the gun - headline,
Man Sentenced For Buying ‘New School Shooter Gun’ For Boy

Hesitated to post this......worth looking up IMHO

[Edited on 1/17/2020 by Stephen]


BrerRabbit - 1/17/2020 at 08:17 PM

quote:
A story out of Madison Wisc . . .


Yep, the mean streets of Madison Wisconsin! The urban blight of Columbine! The garbage-strewn bullet-riddled 'hood of Sandy Hook! The inherently flawed character of the savage layabouts of concrete jungle Parkland! The inner city Heart of Darkness of Aurora Colorado!


Sang - 1/17/2020 at 10:22 PM

Drive By Truckers weigh in.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkD4xSqNVII


BrerRabbit - 1/17/2020 at 10:33 PM

quote:
Drive By Truckers weigh in.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkD4xSqNVII


Powerful good thx


Jerry - 1/19/2020 at 05:59 AM

Hey Skydog32103, no comment on my reply, or the video?


Jerry - 1/19/2020 at 06:22 AM

Skydog, since you are a proponent of mental screening, I thought you would find this interesting.

With people pushing for mental health screening, I found a website that offers it FOR FREE. If anyone wishes to take it, do the following.
Go to the website, click on "Get A Free Screening Here" and follow the prompts. Real easy. If you find you can't pass it, please report yourself to the local authorities for your "this dummy can't even pass an on line test" badge.


https://walkthetalkamerica.org/love/


Skydog32103 - 1/19/2020 at 11:28 AM

quote:
Hey Skydog32103, no comment on my reply, or the video?


I don’t even know what comment or link you are referring to. We are so far apart on how to manage firearms so there’s truly no point.


Stephen - 1/19/2020 at 12:55 PM

Good morning folks - Skydog03210, take a look at that vid - it’s very effective - very well done - ups to the DBT, Thoughts & Prayers speaks for all of us IMHO


Jerry - 1/19/2020 at 02:28 PM

This one where you asked about why Chicago and Baltimore keep coming up in the "guncontrol" narrative.

quote:
quote:
Thank you I think?

I think you are well aware that the right always brought up gun violence in Chicago quite a bit whenever Democrats wanted to propose ideas to stop suburban mass shootings. It was everywhere in the media and on this very site. Now it's Baltimore because Cummings was from there. I think it's a cheap way to say that Democratic leaders, like Cummings, are bad at stopping gun violence, and therefore should be dismissed when trying to propose logical common sense gun laws.

Don't mind me, I'm just watching from afar.


You are welcome.
Chicago, New York, and other Democratic held towns were often brought up since the "logical common sense gun laws" proposed were often already in effect in those towns. Hopefully it was to show that the proposed legislation didn't work there, so why did anyone think it would work elsewhere.
One of the "logical common sense gun laws" that are being proposed by some Democrat candidates is to outlaw bump stocks? Did you know that bump stocks are already illegal? Some are proposing laws to ban those convicted of domestic violence from purchasing firearms? Did you know that this is already a Federal Law?
Some propose to ban the sale of automatic weapons. That already, with conditions, falls under the National Firearms Act.
Democrats continuously propose laws that are already on the books. Many Democrats show no knowledge on what they are proposing legislation on.
It seems that they also don't realize that criminals, by the definition of the word, don't follow laws.
Take a look at this and ask yourself if you would trust legislation by people who show they don't know what they are talking about, by talking about it.
ie "heat seeking bullets" "30 caliber clip that fire 30 bullets in half a second", "its legal to hunt humans"?? "perfectly functioning weapons that fire with no ammo"

https://twitter.com/ARmastrangelo/status/968165387694235648

Click on the center of the video to hear audio.

Look at what is being called "logical common sense gun laws", compare it to what is already on the books and you will see what I'm posting about.


Skydog32103 - 1/19/2020 at 03:48 PM

It seems illogical to me to link inner-city street gang violence with suburban mass shootings.

"Because gangs circumvent laws and purchase guns on the black market, then we shouldn't listen to Democrats who want to devise a way to help prevent deranged fools from purchasing firearms. If Democrats can't stop the black market, then their ideas for stopping deranged shooters won't work either." I don't have any respect for this opinion, not because it's critical of Democrats, but because it shows a lack of intelligence, in my humble opinion.

To have the only requirement be a clean criminal record, to me shows a complete disrespect towards the object.


Jerry - 1/19/2020 at 03:54 PM

quote:
It seems illogical to me to link inner-city street gang violence with suburban mass shootings.

"Because gangs circumvent laws and purchase guns on the black market, then we shouldn't listen to Democrats who want to devise a way to help prevent deranged fools from purchasing firearms. If Democrats can't stop the black market, then their ideas for stopping deranged shooters won't work either." I don't have any respect for this opinion, not because it's critical of Democrats, but because it shows a lack of intelligence, in my humble opinion.

To have the only requirement be a clean criminal record, to me shows a complete disrespect towards the object.


Skydog, where did the quote come from?

And, to follow your logic, you shouldn't be able to own a vehicle if you have a good driving record.

Did anybody take the mental health test?


Skydog32103 - 1/19/2020 at 07:44 PM

quote:
And, to follow your logic, you shouldn't be able to own a vehicle if you have a good driving record.


One reason I don't have an interest in talking to you about guns is that you don't see the problem with comparing guns to other objects. Do it all you want, but please stop wasting my time.

quote:
Did anybody take the mental health test?


I wish they had, Jerry. I wish they had.



[Edited on 1/19/2020 by Skydog32103]


Jerry - 1/19/2020 at 11:48 PM

quote:
quote:
And, to follow your logic, you shouldn't be able to own a vehicle if you have a good driving record.


One reason I don't have an interest in talking to you about guns is that you don't see the problem with comparing guns to other objects. Do it all you want, but please stop wasting my time.

quote:
Did anybody take the mental health test?


I wish they had, Jerry. I wish they had.

[Edited on 1/19/2020 by Skydog32103]


Still didn't answer my question since you again skirt the subject and misread what was written.

1) Did you read the post?
2) Did you watch the video?
3) Did you take the test?

Simple questions. A yes or no would be sufficient.


Skydog32103 - 1/20/2020 at 01:39 AM

quote:
Still didn't answer my question since you again skirt the subject and misread what was written.

1) Did you read the post?
2) Did you watch the video?
3) Did you take the test?

Simple questions. A yes or no would be sufficient.


Yes, I read your post. I watched as much of the video as I could stomach, and I went to the website. Do you have a point?


BIGV - 1/20/2020 at 01:45 AM

quote:
"If Democrats can't stop the black market, then their ideas for stopping deranged shooters won't work either."


As long as Criminals and people with any type of Mental Health issue can circumvent existing laws by purchasing guns on the Black Market, ANY attempt at MORE laws is futile.

How many more times are we willing to hear "How in the Hell did this idiot acquire a gun"?

New methods have to be adopted, the paradigm must change. We can not as a society continue to place yet another band-aid on a wound requiring an amputation and walk around saying, "Well, at least we are doing something"

Asinine.


Skydog32103 - 1/20/2020 at 02:04 AM

quote:
New methods have to be adopted, the paradigm must change.


So then you agree with liberals.....and there's only one group refusing new methods.


BIGV - 1/20/2020 at 02:14 AM

quote:
quote:
New methods have to be adopted, the paradigm must change.


So then you agree with liberals.....and there's only one group refusing new methods.


Please.... Enlighten us. Exactly what NEW methods and ideas is the Left offering up?


Skydog32103 - 1/20/2020 at 02:45 AM

quote:
Please.... Enlighten us. Exactly what NEW methods and ideas is the Left offering up?


I'll answer your questions even though you ran from mine. You agree with liberals because liberals would agree in a heartbeat to any new methods and paradigms that will help keep guns out of the hands of the deranged and incompetent. Whatever you suggest I bet liberals would support.


BIGV - 1/20/2020 at 03:42 AM

quote:
quote:
Please.... Enlighten us. Exactly what NEW methods and ideas is the Left offering up?


I'll answer your questions even though you ran from mine. You agree with liberals because liberals would agree in a heartbeat to any new methods and paradigms that will help keep guns out of the hands of the deranged and incompetent. Whatever you suggest I bet liberals would support.


What NEW methods and ideas is the Left offering up?

2nd time


Skydog32103 - 1/20/2020 at 03:50 AM

Liberals also want a new paradigm, right?


BIGV - 1/20/2020 at 03:57 AM

quote:
Liberals also want a new paradigm, right?


Tough question?

What NEW methods and ideas is the Left offering up?


Skydog32103 - 1/20/2020 at 04:12 AM

quote:
We can not as a society continue to place yet another band-aid on a wound requiring an amputation


In your gun control analogy, what is the wound that needs amputation?


BIGV - 1/20/2020 at 06:06 AM

quote:
quote:
We can not as a society continue to place yet another band-aid on a wound requiring an amputation


In your gun control analogy, what is the wound that needs amputation?


What NEW methods and ideas is the Left offering up?


Skydog32103 - 1/20/2020 at 12:02 PM

quote:
What NEW methods and ideas is the Left offering up?


My only point is that you and liberals both want a new paradigm - if you need to explore that further with somebody, good luck.


BIGV - 1/20/2020 at 05:34 PM

quote:
quote:
What NEW methods and ideas is the Left offering up?


My only point is that you and liberals both want a new paradigm - if you need to explore that further with somebody, good luck.


Your only point is that like all on the left, you have zero NEW ideas on how to "fix" this. If it does not pertain to some sort of new step in making the purchase of legal firearms a wee bit more lengthy, you have nothing. How about this for a change in the paradigm? Found in possession of a firearm that is not registered?...Lose your vehicle. 2nd time?...Lose your home.

Build facilities that incarcerate those who defy this a 3rd time or have no home or car to lose.

"But what about their livelihoods and families the left will more than likely counter"?

"YOU made the choice, here is the price society has deemed you shall pay"

It is time to start protecting the law abiding citizen and beating the you know what out of those who CHOOSE to circumvent the system.


BrerRabbit - 1/20/2020 at 05:48 PM

Sounds EXACTLY like something some dumberthanaboxofrocks Liberal new world order globalist socialist more laws more govt LOSER would propose as a plank in a doomed platform.


porkchopbob - 1/20/2020 at 06:59 PM

quote:
Your only point is that like all on the left, you have zero NEW ideas on how to "fix" this. If it does not pertain to some sort of new step in making the purchase of legal firearms a wee bit more lengthy, you have nothing. How about this for a change in the paradigm? Found in possession of a firearm that is not registered?...Lose your vehicle. 2nd time?...Lose your home.
Build facilities that incarcerate those who defy this a 3rd time or have no home or car to lose.

Build new facilities and revoke unrelated rights? Sounds downright fascist, not to mention incredibly expensive - prisons and legal proceedings cost the public far more than a background check. Most states have repeat felony laws already, expanding punishment would not be much of a deterrent (and how many repeat felons own their own home? Not having stuff is usually why they are using illegal firearms in the first place).

When it comes to an issue that involves fatalities, typically you try to use preventative measures first. Unless, of course, you're the gun manufacturer who is only concerned with completing the sale, regardless of the result. When Reagan implemented such a preventative bill, most gun owners agreed they didn't mind waiting another week or two for public safety's sake. If someone can't wait a week for a gun, I'd say that's a pretty big red flag.


Stephen - 1/20/2020 at 07:08 PM

It makes a whole lot more sense than the insulting 12:48 pm reply - unfortunately, politics, not common sense, will always drive gun control debate, rendering it unsolvable - how many times have we seen that, most recently today in Richmond Ba

It’s a rampant epidemic, the graph posted here by adhill58 shows that
So, more extreme/exacting measures such as the one outlined by BigV, can’t be dismissed



[Edited on 1/20/2020 by Stephen]


BrerRabbit - 1/20/2020 at 07:41 PM

quote:
. . .the insulting 12:48 pm reply


Nevermind. Man - it is called 'wit'. Poor wit maybe I will grant, but a sight better than none at all.

[Edited on 1/20/2020 by BrerRabbit]


Skydog32103 - 1/20/2020 at 08:24 PM

quote:
It makes a whole lot more sense than the insulting 12:48 pm reply


quote:
So, more extreme/exacting measures such as the one outlined by BigV, can’t be dismissed


They cannot be dismissed? You've got to be kidding me. His idea for the first and second offense would only apply to a portion of people who own homes or cars......and y'all are making fun of liberals for bad ideas?

quote:
Build facilities that incarcerate those who defy this a 3rd time


Facilities that incarcerate.....those thingies are called prisons, and people already go there for a third repeated offense of illegal possession of a firearm. Thank GOD you two aren't in charge of anything.

And what kind of person believes that a mass shooter who is ready for death and life in prison, would be deterred by losing their car or home that they don't even have??? Not to mention, we've seen a focus in this thread about inner-city gang violence who obtain firearms on the black market - what do you suppose these folks would do if a judge tells them they are going to take their car away, and next time their home. They would laugh hysterically.




[Edited on 1/20/2020 by Skydog32103]


Skydog32103 - 1/20/2020 at 08:29 PM

quote:
It is time to start protecting the law abiding citizen


Another example of how you are similar to liberals! I think you are a lot more liberal than you might think. A new paradigm, protecting the citizens first....now you're talkin!

quote:
and beating the you know what out of those who CHOOSE to circumvent the system.


Do us all a favor, and be the first in line to the South side of Chicago and Baltimore to do this, and please videotape your success. Or, if you were referring to having the cops do your dirty work for you, then you don't understand America and belong somewhere else, because our Constitution rejects that 100%.


Skydog32103 - 1/20/2020 at 09:11 PM

maybe we all agree that we need a new paradigm, but nobody has any good ideas apparently?

we should start by respecting the firearm a little more. a clean record.....that's it? if this is the only requirement for adults, then we're allowing millions of dangerous scum with intent to harm others legally purchase a firearm. it simply shouldn't happen. we are better than this. y'all are telling me that we can't come up with an agreed upon screening process to get a license to purchase? the most likely reason to oppose this is a fear of failing it yourself.


Jerry - 1/20/2020 at 09:51 PM

quote:
quote:
Still didn't answer my question since you again skirt the subject and misread what was written.

1) Did you read the post?
2) Did you watch the video?
3) Did you take the test?

Simple questions. A yes or no would be sufficient.


Yes, I read your post. I watched as much of the video as I could stomach, and I went to the website. Do you have a point?


Then you agree that people who don't know about, or take time to learn about items they are trying to make legislation on should not be allowed to vote on that legislation?

Do you also agree that trying to pass the same laws over and over again, or try to make a platform on passing laws that are already on the books makes no sense?

Are you starting to get the point? Would you trust those in the video to make your health plan legislation if they show the same amount of knowledge on the subject as they do firearms?


porkchopbob - 1/20/2020 at 11:33 PM

quote:
unfortunately, politics, not common sense, will always drive gun control debate, rendering it unsolvable - how many times have we seen that, most recently today in Richmond Ba [sic]

Oh are you referring to all of the white people walking around the former Capital of the Confederacy with sniper rifles on the day we celebrate MLK, Jr, a black leader who was killed by a racist with a sniper rifle? Yeah, I agree, they are not helping solve anything.


Skydog32103 - 1/20/2020 at 11:45 PM

quote:
Then you agree that people who don't know about, or take time to learn about items they are trying to make legislation on should not be allowed to vote on that legislation?

Do you also agree that trying to pass the same laws over and over again, or try to make a platform on passing laws that are already on the books makes no sense?

Are you starting to get the point? Would you trust those in the video to make your health plan legislation if they show the same amount of knowledge on the subject as they do firearms?


Ever see those montage videos that Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert would play, of a bunch of edited snippets from Republicans at various events and discussions, and edit it together to make Republicans look stupid? You are falling for one of those videos. Jerry, Twitter videos are not intended to be sources of honest educational material. I think it's silly to give them any time of day, let alone try to use it as evidence of something. And I don't really respect civilian spectators who act as if they know better than professionals - if you have experience running a municpality on any level, I'll listen to your critcisms of career politicians who have law degrees and experience.


BIGV - 1/21/2020 at 01:10 AM

quote:
and beating the you know what out of those who CHOOSE to circumvent the system.


Do us all a favor, and be the first in line to the South side of Chicago and Baltimore to do this, and please videotape your success. Or, if you were referring to having the cops do your dirty work for you, then you don't understand America and belong somewhere else, because our Constitution rejects that 100%.


I was referring to any "Beating" that is to take place being in the criminal justice system, as in a Court of Law.

Why the reference to the South side of Chicago and Baltimore?


BIGV - 1/21/2020 at 01:19 AM

quote:
Build new facilities and revoke unrelated rights? Sounds downright fascist, not to mention incredibly expensive - prisons and legal proceedings cost the public far more than a background check.


Thanks for making my point. "More background checks"...please. How have "more background checks" done with limiting shootings since their inception?...The Liberal/Democrat answer for everything....More laws. It's obvious that the current means for "stopping" the horrific incidents is not working and yes, "new facilities" exclusively for people who continue to break laws pertaining to the illegal purchasing and possession of guns obtained on the black market. Hem and haw all you want, laugh even louder, but undeniably, weapons purchased / obtained illegally are and will continue be the back breaker in this issue, stop that and the war is that much closer to being won.


Jerry - 1/21/2020 at 01:29 AM

quote:
Sounds EXACTLY like something some dumberthanaboxofrocks Liberal new world order globalist socialist more laws more govt LOSER would propose as a plank in a doomed platform.


Which post are you replying to?


Jerry - 1/21/2020 at 02:08 AM

quote:
quote:
Then you agree that people who don't know about, or take time to learn about items they are trying to make legislation on should not be allowed to vote on that legislation?

Do you also agree that trying to pass the same laws over and over again, or try to make a platform on passing laws that are already on the books makes no sense?

Are you starting to get the point? Would you trust those in the video to make your health plan legislation if they show the same amount of knowledge on the subject as they do firearms?


Ever see those montage videos that Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert would play, of a bunch of edited snippets from Republicans at various events and discussions, and edit it together to make Republicans look stupid? You are falling for one of those videos. Jerry, Twitter videos are not intended to be sources of honest educational material. I think it's silly to give them any time of day, let alone try to use it as evidence of something. And I don't really respect civilian spectators who act as if they know better than professionals - if you have experience running a municpality on any level, I'll listen to your critcisms of career politicians who have law degrees and experience.


Are you saying that the video is false, that the democrat lawmakers did not say what they said, and did not act like idiots in front of news cameras?
Bloomberg stating that a semi-automatic rifle fires all the cartridges at one pull of the trigger during an interview by ABC News, that "this rifle has a 30 caliber clip magazine that fires 30 bullets in half a second" as said by Senator Kevin Leon in front of news cameras from several different networks, Feinstein saying "yes, it's legal to hunt humans" in front of the Judiciary committee, and you declare this is a joke video?


I don't have to have experience running a municipality, or even a small village to see what doesn't work. Just like you don't have to have a degree in computer science to know your computer isn't working.
If it doesn't work in several cities, what makes you think it would work nationally?

Again, do you agree that people who do not take the time to learn what an item is and how it works should not be allowed to form legislation about that item?


Jerry - 1/21/2020 at 02:22 AM

quote:
quote:
unfortunately, politics, not common sense, will always drive gun control debate, rendering it unsolvable - how many times have we seen that, most recently today in Richmond Ba [sic]

Oh are you referring to all of the white people walking around the former Capital of the Confederacy with sniper rifles on the day we celebrate MLK, Jr, a black leader who was killed by a racist with a sniper rifle? Yeah, I agree, they are not helping solve anything.


What about all the black people at the Lobby Day annual event? You do remember this is held yearly?
https://thefederalistpapers.org/opinion/black-gun-rights-activist-virginia- rally

Click on the video and see what a black man has to say.

If the video Old Town Road is still on after it, watch.


Skydog32103 - 1/21/2020 at 02:53 AM

quote:
Are you saying that the video is false, that the democrat lawmakers did not say what they said, and did not act like idiots in front of news cameras?


Think whatever you want about those folks, I'm not trying to get you to change your mind. In Bowling for Columbine, Michael Moore uses a snippet from a Charleton Heston interview, and takes it out of context to make him look really really bad. Did Charleton Heston say those words? Well yes. Did Michael Moore take it out of context to further his agenda? Of course. What would you think of a liberal using a Michael Moore movie as their proof and evidence to back some point? Well, you are doing the exact same thing. I don't want you to change your mind on gun control - I want you to show me intelligent evidence or logic to back your position. So far, you've never done that.

quote:
I don't have to have experience running a municipality, or even a small village to see what doesn't work. Just like you don't have to have a degree in computer science to know your computer isn't working.


I don't want to play any straw argument games - I never said anything about acknowledging that our gun laws aren't perfect - I was referring to your arrogant assumption that you know better than people with law degrees and experience running complex organizations, and managing enormous budgets of taxpayer dollars. Observing cracks from afar means absolutely nothing and takes zero skill. It's just complaining, which any kid can do.

quote:
If it doesn't work in several cities, what makes you think it would work nationally?


If what doesn't work in several cities? If you are referring to the Twitter video, don't bother explaining.




[Edited on 1/21/2020 by Skydog32103]


BrerRabbit - 1/21/2020 at 03:19 AM

quote:
The Liberal/Democrat answer for everything....More laws.


Wait a sec, you were just calling for more laws with that house seizure and incarceration facility thing.


Jerry - 1/21/2020 at 04:06 AM

quote:
quote:
Are you saying that the video is false, that the democrat lawmakers did not say what they said, and did not act like idiots in front of news cameras?


Think whatever you want about those folks, I'm not trying to get you to change your mind. In Bowling for Columbine, Michael Moore uses a snippet from a Charleton Heston interview, and takes it out of context to make him look really really bad. Did Charleton Heston say those words? Well yes. Did Michael Moore take it out of context to further his agenda? Of course. What would you think of a liberal using a Michael Moore movie as their proof and evidence to back some point? Well, you are doing the exact same thing. I don't want you to change your mind on gun control - I want you to show me intelligent evidence or logic to back your position. So far, you've never done that.
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________
Are you saying that NBC, ABC, CSpan,CBS and other news outlets took their words, as they said them, out of context as did Michael Moore did in Bowling For Columbine?
These are snippets of what they said, as they said them, and is available on the respected websites if you want to look them up.
I can't believe that you just agreed that Michael Moore makes propaganda rather than movies by using out of context video and editing.
And yes, I've shown you plenty of evidence, and you just make snide remarks about it since it doesn't fit your narrative.
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

quote:
I don't have to have experience running a municipality, or even a small village to see what doesn't work. Just like you don't have to have a degree in computer science to know your computer isn't working.


I don't want to play any straw argument games - I never said anything about acknowledging that our gun laws aren't perfect - I was referring to your arrogant assumption that you know better than people with law degrees and experience running complex organizations, and managing enormous budgets of taxpayer dollars. Observing cracks from afar means absolutely nothing and takes zero skill. It's just complaining, which any kid can do.
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________
I'm glad that you acknowledge that our gun laws are not perfect. I totally agree. Any gun law that restricts access to firearms by law abiding citizens should be changed. There are many gun laws that are needed, and are pretty much already on the books. Those who have been found guilty of domestic violence are already restricted from owning firearms (problem is that those who have been charged with one and found innocent still cannot purchase firearms Question 11h and 11i on Form 4473), those found to be legally insane do not have the right to purchase firearms, those with criminal records cannot own firearms, minors cannot legally own a firearm, aliens (except under specific rules) cannot own or possess a firearm, if you have an excessive amount of traffic tickets you pretty much won't pass the background check.
Laws we don't need are those that are passed to show "see, we did something about those scary guns" kneejerk type law.
Laws that restrict the law abiding citizen from purchasing any type of firearm they want, or how many, or how much ammo they think they need.
Laws that allow celebrities (some that aren't even citizens), politicians, the wealthy, and select few to have licenses to own and carry a firearm while those who aren't of the select few, even if they pass the extra background check, aren't allowed the permits.
Laws that disarm those in areas of economic depression, high violence, and robbery need to be gotten rid of.
Laws that disarm the general population and have only the police and the select few allowed to protect themselves.
Pretty much any law that restricts the Constitutional rights of any citizen that can pass the background check as described in Federal Law should be struck down.
Wait a minute, what about Heller V DC? Didn't that actually strike down most of those laws?
HHHHMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!

OH yeah, and we need to quit voting in laws that are already in effect.


Let's talk about that "zero skill" for a moment.
How much skill does it take to see that a city continues to have problems with violence, poverty, poor education, anger issues from citizens about how their city is run, infrastructure not being taken care of, areas of town that police arrive only en mass, areas where ambulances and fire trucks will not go without police protection, parts of the town where whole neighborhoods close down when it gets dark, places where that even when the city has some of the strictest gun laws, people get shot and killed at record paces?
Then ask yourself, when has Jerry been talking about that?
I haven't. Your mind has gotten you confused about where you have tried to change the nature of the threads to fit your narrative.

I have been talking about gun laws that keep firearms out of the hands of law abiding citizens. The ones that you don't want to have access to firearms.

You and I have not in my recollection ever posted back and forth about what is in the first paragraph.
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

Noticing that, wouldn't you say that the policies of the administration isn't working?

quote:
If it doesn't work in several cities, what makes you think it would work nationally?

___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

On the firearms laws, yes, I would say that the policies of the administration isn't working, and why anyone would think those policies would work on a national scale is just ridiculous, reckless, and down right dangerous to other citizens. The firearm laws that aren't working should be repealed and the rights of the citizens should be restored in owning firearms. In fact, they never should have been restricted.
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________


If what doesn't work in several cities? If you are referring to the Twitter video, don't bother explaining.
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

It doesn't need explaining to people who actually watch the video and ask the question "Are these the people who we want to form legislation on something they have no knowledge on?" Which was the original question, as you know.

Don't keep such a closed mind about how you don't want anyone to own a firearm. If you don't want one, that's fine, don't own one.
Don't keep trying to stop anyone from owning one.





BrerRabbit - 1/21/2020 at 05:35 AM

Does a homemade blunderbuss need to be registered?


porkchopbob - 1/21/2020 at 01:34 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
unfortunately, politics, not common sense, will always drive gun control debate, rendering it unsolvable - how many times have we seen that, most recently today in Richmond Ba [sic]

Oh are you referring to all of the white people walking around the former Capital of the Confederacy with sniper rifles on the day we celebrate MLK, Jr, a black leader who was killed by a racist with a sniper rifle? Yeah, I agree, they are not helping solve anything.


What about all the black people at the Lobby Day annual event? You do remember this is held yearly?
https://thefederalistpapers.org/opinion/black-gun-rights-activist-virginia- rally

Click on the video and see what a black man has to say.

If the video Old Town Road is still on after it, watch.

The blog doesn't refute anything I wrote, manages to get its bias across pretty thick. Glad the militia cosplayers carried out their rally peacefully this time.


Skydog32103 - 1/21/2020 at 02:09 PM

quote:
Don't keep such a closed mind about how you don't want anyone to own a firearm. If you don't want one, that's fine, don't own one.
Don't keep trying to stop anyone from owning one.


This is beyond stupid, and all emotion, like a kid.


Skydog32103 - 1/21/2020 at 02:16 PM

quote:
I can't believe that you just agreed that Michael Moore makes propaganda rather than movies by using out of context video and editing.


You’ll find that many of my posts are about my opposition to dishonest propaganda and the people who push such garbage. Michael Moore, CNN, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, all part of the same sleazy game that hurts Americans. I think you sometimes get swayed by these people using bogus out of context fear tactics. “I don’t want anyone to own a firearm”? You ask me for my opinion and then reduce it to tabloid fodder? Stop wasting my time.


porkchopbob - 1/21/2020 at 02:17 PM

quote:
quote:
The Liberal/Democrat answer for everything....More laws.

Wait a sec, you were just calling for more laws with that house seizure and incarceration facility thing.

Yeah, I suggested expanding/enforcing an existing bipartisan law (which has denied over 1 million potential purchasers), and somehow that's "more laws" than a redundant, Kafka-esque gun enforcement facility with additional statutes. It's what happens when someone only reads the parts they want.

quote:
Don't keep trying to stop anyone from owning one.

No one is. If you believe this, you're part of the problem. Liberals own guns, too.


Skydog32103 - 1/21/2020 at 02:30 PM

quote:
Oh are you referring to all of the white people walking around the former Capital of the Confederacy with sniper rifles on the day we celebrate MLK, Jr, a black leader who was killed by a racist with a sniper rifle? Yeah, I agree, they are not helping solve anything.


quote:
What about all the black people at the Lobby Day annual event? You do remember this is held yearly?
https://thefederalistpapers.org/opinion/black-gun-rights-activist-virginia- rally

Click on the video and see what a black man has to say.


Do you not understand the absurdity of expecting people to give credence to a illegitimate website, labeled as an opinion piece? Dude, I’m trying to help you - read up on journalism and how to identify journalistic integrity. It’s no wonder you’re mixed up. Lastly, that article showed ONE black person, LOL, and you wrote “....all the black people”. I’m not mocking your position - I’m mocking your choice of evidence.


BrerRabbit - 1/21/2020 at 03:44 PM

quote:
. . . the militia cosplayers . . .


LOL this pretty much nails it


BIGV - 1/21/2020 at 10:09 PM

quote:
quote:
Don't keep such a closed mind about how you don't want anyone to own a firearm. If you don't want one, that's fine, don't own one.
Don't keep trying to stop anyone from owning one.


This is beyond stupid, and all emotion, like a kid.


But on the other side of the coin..."If you don't believe in Abortion, don't have one" is OK?


Skydog32103 - 1/21/2020 at 11:00 PM

quote:
But on the other side of the coin..."If you don't believe in Abortion, don't have one" is OK?


boy, you are the king of straw arguments. there’s more straw in you than the scarecrow. I don’t know if it’s a game you enjoy playing or just a lack of debate skills, but that gig is up. Let me explain. the abortion debate centers around the Republican attempt to ban it outright in states, denying people the right to choose, and we even had a Supreme Court case that deemed the ban unconstitutional. since you do know this, why relate it to a discussion that had nothing to do with banning firearms? This is what makes it a straw - there’s no correlation. I won’t expect an answer since you run and hide when challenged.

I don’t have any issue with Jerry telling me not to own one if I don’t like guns (even though I have three). But the conclusion that an agreed upon screening process is “not wanting anyone to own guns”, is beyond stupid and immature, especially with what’s at stake. People need to step up and do better.



[Edited on 1/21/2020 by Skydog32103]


porkchopbob - 1/21/2020 at 11:07 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Don't keep such a closed mind about how you don't want anyone to own a firearm. If you don't want one, that's fine, don't own one.
Don't keep trying to stop anyone from owning one.

This is beyond stupid, and all emotion, like a kid.

But on the other side of the coin..."If you don't believe in Abortion, don't have one" is OK?

Except a firearm is not a part of your body and a woman never killed a crowd of people with an abortion. This is a false equivalency. Just because the sentences sound the same, doesn't mean they mean the same thing.


BIGV - 1/22/2020 at 12:21 AM

quote:
quote:
But on the other side of the coin..."If you don't believe in Abortion, don't have one" is OK?


boy, you are the king of straw arguments. there’s more straw in you than the scarecrow. I don’t know if it’s a game you enjoy playing or just a lack of debate skills, but that gig is up. Let me explain. the abortion debate centers around the Republican attempt to ban it outright in states, denying people the right to choose, and we even had a Supreme Court case that deemed the ban unconstitutional.


Nope. The abortion "debate" has everything to do with the lack of agreement as to where life begins. You raise only the legal argument. You referred to a post as being "Beyond stupid" because of an opinion expressed you disagreed with, nothing more, no less. My statement about abortion had zero to do with changing the course of this thread; only shared to show how one's opinion is about as meaningful...as you know what.



quote:
I won’t expect an answer since you run and hide when challenged.


You...are a riot. Similar to the question I posed to you no fewer than three times concerning NEW ideas pertaining to the acquisition of black market firearms.

quote:
I don’t have any issue with Jerry telling me not to own one if I don’t like guns (even though I have three). But the conclusion that an agreed upon screening process is “not wanting anyone to own guns”, is beyond stupid and immature, especially with what’s at stake. People need to step up and do better.


Is there a "screening process" in place today when purchasing a firearm?



BIGV - 1/22/2020 at 12:24 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Don't keep such a closed mind about how you don't want anyone to own a firearm. If you don't want one, that's fine, don't own one.
Don't keep trying to stop anyone from owning one.

This is beyond stupid, and all emotion, like a kid.

But on the other side of the coin..."If you don't believe in Abortion, don't have one" is OK?

Except a firearm is not a part of your body and a woman never killed a crowd of people with an abortion. This is a false equivalency. Just because the sentences sound the same, doesn't mean they mean the same thing.


The question directly to personal responsibility and how easily people can stand behind both sides of the same curtain. So enough with the "False equivalency" B.S.


gina - 1/22/2020 at 01:05 AM

The states want to disarm their citizens. You are aware of the demonstrations in Richmond, Virginia aren't you?They are due to laws that state wants to pass.

Abortion should be decided between the woman and her Doctor. There could be reasons why she needs one. It is not just financial/convenience reasons. It has to be between the woman and her Doctor. I think adoption is a better idea if the reasons for wanting one are financial/convenience/job related [ie. can't work if pregnant etc.].


Skydog32103 - 1/22/2020 at 02:26 AM

quote:
The abortion "debate" has everything to do with the lack of agreement as to where life begins. You raise only the legal argument.


quote:
But on the other side of the coin..."If you don't believe in Abortion, don't have one" is OK?


You are going in circles Scarecrow.



Skydog32103 - 1/22/2020 at 02:31 AM

quote:
You referred to a post as being "Beyond stupid" because of an opinion expressed you disagreed with, nothing more, no less.


Anyone who thinks that asking for a better screening process is the same thing as "not wanting anyone to have a gun", is a moron, and you know it.


Skydog32103 - 1/22/2020 at 02:36 AM

quote:
You referred to a post as being "Beyond stupid" because of an opinion expressed you disagreed with, nothing more, no less.


Then I guess I have the right's vote for President of the United States.

quote:
only shared to show how one's opinion is about as meaningful...as you know what.


Sherlock Holmes everyone.


Stephen - 1/22/2020 at 04:46 AM

2 dead, 5 injured in shooting in San Antonio bar - commonplace, people are used to it etc etc

What happened in Bloomington Indiana Sunday, however, is sheer stupidity -
a father decided to play-wrestle with his 4 year old son
While in possession of a loaded gun
Where are peoples’ brains anyway

Gun accidentally fell out of his pocket, discharged - and his son is in critical condition after being shot in the head -

Know this doesn’t connect to the current conversation & only indirectly to the thread


porkchopbob - 1/22/2020 at 05:00 AM

quote:
The question directly to personal responsibility and how easily people can stand behind both sides of the same curtain. So enough with the "False equivalency" B.S.

Except it’s not the same curtain in any way. Like how some people think prevention for gun violence is pointless because people are going to get guns illegally, yet people want to build a wall to prevent illegal immigration even though people will still attempt to get here illegally. By your logic, you’d have to believe in prevention OR punishment. Take your pick if you think all issues are so black and white.


Skydog32103 - 1/22/2020 at 02:44 PM

I apologize for being hostile towards some in this thread. the gun debate should never be politicized considering innocent loved ones are being slaughtered in schools and stores. crazy people go undetected and purchase guns legally to commit these atrocities, and some people can only think about themselves. new ideas won’t work? put your money where your mouth is. how about we try and see the results before assuming? the refusal to try speaks volumes. if all of these mass shootings were committed by black people, we’d have the toughest laws in the world to purchase. rejecting common sense laws demonstrates no concern for the victims whatsoever.



[Edited on 1/22/2020 by Skydog32103]


Skydog32103 - 1/22/2020 at 02:57 PM

quote:
The question directly to personal responsibility and how easily people can stand behind both sides of the same curtain. So enough with the "False equivalency" B.S.


now I see where you get tripped up. its a good thing to apply different logic to different topics. It makes perfect sense to do so since different topics are very different in nature. It’s actually foolish to apply the same logic to different topics. “Standing behind both sides of the curtain” doesn’t make someone a hypocrite - it makes them intelligent. For example, you support building the wall despite knowing it won’t prevent them all. But for gun control, it’s a different t topic....2nd amendment right comes into play for you, so you use different logic. That’s why straw arguments are rejected - because there’s no sense in comparing apples and oranges, which you do a lot. You can’t hold this against liberals when we are all supposed to be doing it.


BrerRabbit - 1/22/2020 at 05:00 PM

Says pro choice votes and talks anti.

Says pro 2nd calls for tougher gun laws.

I gave a 22 mag to a navajo in 89 to kill coyotes - no papers with it. If that gun kills someone and traced back to me I should lose my property? Go away.



[Edited on 1/22/2020 by BrerRabbit]


Stephen - 1/22/2020 at 05:51 PM

quote:


I gave a 22 mag to a navajo in 89 to kill coyotes - no papers with it. If that gun kills someone and traced back to me I should lose my property? Go away.

[Edited on 1/22/2020 by BrerRabbit]


Agree wholeheartedly Brer - however that was 30 years ago - things are different now

Example, the gun was located yesterday & identified as the one used in the most recent school shooting in which a student was murdered last week by a 16 year old fellow student at a Houston area high school

Who owns the gun, is still unclear -
Once the owner is ID’d, am guessing he’ll be in trouble - hopefully not to the point of having his property confiscated or other unreasonable extremes -
but still, a minor committing murder with his, the owner’s, gun -

Reasonable or unreasonable, the law will not like this
That there’s no end to gun violence proves IMO there’s no solution to it


BrerRabbit - 1/22/2020 at 05:55 PM

Yeah. I pretty much stay out of the gun trip. Just not a big fan of more laws on everything, practically can't even wipe my ass these days without some narc hollering how it should be done.

[Edited on 1/22/2020 by BrerRabbit]


Stephen - 1/22/2020 at 06:38 PM

Haha! That’s for sure
Btw did ya see that vid posted yesterday of the father of of a high school wrestler rushing onto the mat and blindsiding his son’s opponent after the opponent took down his son - crazy bro

apparently the move his son’s opponent used was an illegal one
....yet the son’s teammates wrote a letter to the other wrestler & his school apologizing for what the father did, citing shame & embarrassment

Some people defended the father’s actions too, saying the tactic was dangerous
So, one just never knows - the other kid could’ve been injured too, blindsided like he was

Sorry man, I go off on tangents too easy - all good


BrerRabbit - 1/22/2020 at 07:11 PM

No figuring people. Don't let it bring you down, it's only castles burning


Skydog32103 - 1/22/2020 at 07:19 PM

quote:
That there’s no end to gun violence proves IMO there’s no solution to it


That there’s no end to American gun violence proves we have the lowest standards and have been foolish in our management of this right. No other country has this epidemic. Raise your standards when it comes to innocent lives being taken by crazy people. You tell yourself there’s no solution because the truth hurts - the truth that it’s just the United States and our failures to be responsible about it. That your desire to “beat” the liberals is stronger than your desire to save innocent lives. "You" in general terms, for those that oppose additional measures....not trying to get personal.



[Edited on 1/22/2020 by Skydog32103]


BrerRabbit - 1/22/2020 at 10:44 PM

Way it is going looks like it will get so bad that there will be a huge martial crackdown and folks won't be allowed to even have bb guns. The holdouts like fat kinky gun fetish guy will be blown to pieces by the US Army, intel has all their data from them parading around brandishing their arsenals. Nat Guard will patrol the cities and take out the punks with guns.

It will sort itself out. Not saying I hope this goes down, just putting the pieces together. This is not going to continue - it is a huge sick joke by now - society will force a conclusion. The zillions being spent on security now, at schools, everywhere, it is taking a huge bite out of our quality of life.

Probably won't affect rural people with their gun collections much if at all other than buying ammo.

Done deal. Gonna be some fireworks at first, a lot more innocents will die, then backlash. There's your paradigm shift.


Jerry - 1/24/2020 at 03:00 AM

quote:
Does a homemade blunderbuss need to be registered?

Not that I know of. I'll check it out for you.


Jerry - 1/24/2020 at 03:39 AM

quote:
I apologize for being hostile towards some in this thread. the gun debate should never be politicized considering innocent loved ones are being slaughtered in schools and stores. crazy people go undetected and purchase guns legally to commit these atrocities, and some people can only think about themselves. new ideas won’t work? put your money where your mouth is. how about we try and see the results before assuming? the refusal to try speaks volumes. if all of these mass shootings were committed by black people, we’d have the toughest laws in the world to purchase. rejecting common sense laws demonstrates no concern for the victims whatsoever.
[Edited on 1/22/2020 by Skydog32103]


Sorry, but the Dems in general have politicized it for years, sometimes with GOP support. They campaign on passing gun laws, pass laws already on the books, and then strut around saying "see i did something".
There needs to be something done to help prevent violence, not just gun violence, in places where it is rampant.
Your phrase:" If all these mass shootings were committed by black people, we'd have the toughest laws in the world to purchase."
Is this your manifesto on the black race, that you think blacks with guns are the scourge of the nation?
Why are you afraid of blacks with firearms?
If you haven't gotten the drift, I think that phrase was exceptionally RACIST.

Show me a "common sense law" that doesn't restrict the rights of the law abiding citizens, doesn't call for more bans, doesn't call "buy backs" (how you buy back something you didn't sell confuses me) for firearms, doesn't call for illegal acts like the Virginia governor wants to use the National Guard to do weapons searches to "find" those who don't like the laws he is proposing, and I'll back you. I'll help you campaign for it, I'll even give financial support.
Now, here's the challenge. Try to talk a modern day Democrat to help you form that legislation.

See, there is no refusal to try, there is a refusal to lay down and give up our rights.



Skydog32103 - 1/24/2020 at 03:44 AM

No denial. Speaks volumes.


Stephen - 1/24/2020 at 03:52 AM

“A 43 year old Okla City man was sentenced Wednesday to 42 months in prison after admitting to making a hoax threat of a mass shooting at a community college
“In March 2017 he sent false information to police and local news outlets about s pending mass shooting at Redlands Comm. College in the OKC suburb of El Reno”

Remarks, this is a just sentence that sends a message to potential mass shooters what their actions will bring them - a lengthy stay at a maximum-security prison
I see it that the awareness of the epidemic is there & is being treated with the most exacting standards allowed under law - as it is the investigation into the phony threats cost $30,000

It’s a screwy world alright


Jerry - 1/24/2020 at 04:11 AM

quote:
quote:
Does a homemade blunderbuss need to be registered?

Not that I know of. I'll check it out for you.


Here's something from Criminal Defense lawyer:

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/homemade-guns-are-they-lega l-must-they-be-registered.


Jerry - 1/24/2020 at 04:14 AM

quote:
quote:
Oh are you referring to all of the white people walking around the former Capital of the Confederacy with sniper rifles on the day we celebrate MLK, Jr, a black leader who was killed by a racist with a sniper rifle? Yeah, I agree, they are not helping solve anything.


quote:
What about all the black people at the Lobby Day annual event? You do remember this is held yearly?
https://thefederalistpapers.org/opinion/black-gun-rights-activist-virginia- rally

Click on the video and see what a black man has to say.


Do you not understand the absurdity of expecting people to give credence to a illegitimate website, labeled as an opinion piece? Dude, I’m trying to help you - read up on journalism and how to identify journalistic integrity. It’s no wonder you’re mixed up. Lastly, that article showed ONE black person, LOL, and you wrote “....all the black people”. I’m not mocking your position - I’m mocking your choice of evidence.


You say that wasn't a black man talking, giving his views on the gun laws proposed by Virginia Democrats?
You want to deny him his civil rights to free speech by ignoring his message.
How RACIST can you be?


Skydog32103 - 1/24/2020 at 04:24 AM

quote:
It’s a screwy world alright


Might be a good reason to be a little more selective in our purchase application process, and maybe make the process a bit more challenging. how can we acknowledge that it’s a screwy world with undetected screwy people everywhere, and throw up our hands? there’s no logical reason to oppose ways to make it tougher. the only thing getting in the way of making it tougher is the right’s sensitivity to their manhood. their concern for effectiveness is a complete load of b.s.


Jerry - 1/26/2020 at 12:31 AM

quote:
quote:
It’s a screwy world alright


Might be a good reason to be a little more selective in our purchase application process, and maybe make the process a bit more challenging. how can we acknowledge that it’s a screwy world with undetected screwy people everywhere, and throw up our hands? there’s no logical reason to oppose ways to make it tougher. the only thing getting in the way of making it tougher is the right’s sensitivity to their manhood. their concern for effectiveness is a complete load of b.s.


I'm reminded of the old joke: "Confusion say, man who talks of other mens manhood, often has problems with his own."


Stephen - 1/26/2020 at 01:38 AM

quote:

a father decided to play-wrestle with his 4 year old son
While in possession of a loaded gun
Where are peoples’ brains anyway

Gun accidentally fell out of his pocket, discharged - and his son is in critical condition after being shot in the head -




Sadly, the 4 year old passed away
The father was also injured but will recover
By all online accounts a respected and well liked family, & just a terrible tragedy
The torment the poor father will have to endure, is unimaginable
While obviously a preventable tragedy, there’s no being safe enough around guns no matter what

[Edited on 1/26/2020 by Stephen]


Skydog32103 - 1/26/2020 at 02:52 AM

quote:
Sadly, the 4 year old passed away

there’s no being safe enough around guns no matter what


yup. a dead 4-year old boy was killed by his father because in this country, you don't need to be educated on a firearm if you want to buy one....you only have to have a clean record. this is what happens. so, more and more 4-year olds will be continue to be shot by their uneducated idiots fathers. price of freedom though, right? if only there was a system in place to teach these people in advance, then that 4-year old little boy would probably be alive today.


Jerry - 1/26/2020 at 04:52 AM

quote:
quote:
Sadly, the 4 year old passed away

there’s no being safe enough around guns no matter what


yup. a dead 4-year old boy was killed by his father because in this country, you don't need to be educated on a firearm if you want to buy one....you only have to have a clean record. this is what happens. so, more and more 4-year olds will be continue to be shot by their uneducated idiots fathers. price of freedom though, right? if only there was a system in place to teach these people in advance, then that 4-year old little boy would probably be alive today.


We've suggested it before. Mandatory firearms education in schools. Safety classes early, marksmanship at later grades.
For those who didn't get it earlier, a three week course in safety, education (laws and responsibility), and marksmanship. All could be paid for by taxes on sales of candy, soda, and smokes.


Skydog32103 - 1/26/2020 at 05:59 AM

quote:
We've suggested it before. Mandatory firearms education in schools. Safety classes early, marksmanship at later grades.


“We”, lol.


Stephen - 1/28/2020 at 04:52 AM

quote:


We've suggested it before. Mandatory firearms education in schools. Safety classes early, marksmanship at later grades.
For those who didn't get it earlier, a three week course in safety, education (laws and responsibility), and marksmanship. All could be paid for by taxes on sales of candy, soda, and smokes.


It’s worth serious consideration if not a try - there would be opposition b/c of higher taxes, the newness of it etc
But it’s a new angle that is better than what we’ve had

In Kentucky, 4 instance, the state senate voted 34-1 to send to the House, legislation requiring that police officers be armed when assigned to schools
adding more firearms to a problem is ineffective - but it could prove to be otherwise there, if the legislation is voted through & enacted

Nope those high school daze aren’t what they used to be

[Edited on 1/28/2020 by Stephen]


Skydog32103 - 1/28/2020 at 12:49 PM

quote:
It’s worth serious consideration if not a try - there would be opposition b/c of higher taxes, the newness of it etc
But it’s a new angle that is better than what we’ve had


y’all need to work on your trolling better. you need to say something poignant and thoughtful to get people riled up. looking like stooges doesn’t help your case.

Yes, we’ll add a new class to all schools, extend school hours, hire hundreds of thousands of shooting instructors....each school will of course need massive insurance policies, even more massive health plans for accidents, new legal teams for the lawsuits.....oh yeah, and forget the freedom of the people. Screw freedom! Don’t want your kid to shoot guns at school? TOUGH! “Better than what we’ve had”??? Wow.

nowadays the right side seems to love those fascist foreign dictator type societies.


Jerry - 1/28/2020 at 10:08 PM

quote:
quote:
We've suggested it before. Mandatory firearms education in schools. Safety classes early, marksmanship at later grades.


“We”, lol.


Yes, WE. It's been proposed as legislation to over 30 states.
How about that.

Now, quit wasting my time with snarky comments.


Jerry - 1/28/2020 at 10:10 PM

quote:
quote:
It’s worth serious consideration if not a try - there would be opposition b/c of higher taxes, the newness of it etc
But it’s a new angle that is better than what we’ve had


y’all need to work on your trolling better. you need to say something poignant and thoughtful to get people riled up. looking like stooges doesn’t help your case.

Yes, we’ll add a new class to all schools, extend school hours, hire hundreds of thousands of shooting instructors....each school will of course need massive insurance policies, even more massive health plans for accidents, new legal teams for the lawsuits.....oh yeah, and forget the freedom of the people. Screw freedom! Don’t want your kid to shoot guns at school? TOUGH! “Better than what we’ve had”??? Wow.

nowadays the right side seems to love those fascist foreign dictator type societies.


You don't like it because it really would be a "common sense" gun law very much unlike your total confiscation laws would be.


BrerRabbit - 1/28/2020 at 10:20 PM

I am aware of gun classes as elective in Illinois high schools, being considered elsewhere. I haven't seen anything about "mandatory" firearm training. Could use a link or two on that if not too much trouble thx.

Not a huge fan of the word "mandatory", to me that means move forward with extreme caution.


Skydog32103 - 1/29/2020 at 12:31 AM

quote:
You don't like it because it really would be a "common sense" gun law very much unlike your total confiscation laws would be.


I’ve only posted about a tougher vetting system. where did you get confiscation from you big silly goose? common sense huh? then walk us through the financials, your plan for accidental injuries and death, and how families can exercise their freedom if it’s mandatory?

quote:
It's been proposed as legislation to over 30 states.
How about that.


What was the end result in the red states?

quote:
Now, quit wasting my time with snarky comments.


oh Jerry, you really do make me smile.


Jerry - 1/29/2020 at 12:32 AM

quote:
I am aware of gun classes as elective in Illinois high schools, being considered elsewhere. I haven't seen anything about "mandatory" firearm training. Could use a link or two on that if not too much trouble thx.

Not a huge fan of the word "mandatory", to me that means move forward with extreme caution.


So far only 12 states have the program implemented.
Here's a few articles.

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/12/23/mandatory-gun-training-launched-for -middle-schoolers-education-out-performs-fear-mongering-706219

https://www.foxnews.com/us/iowa-middle-schools-to-begin-gun-safety-program

https://redoubtnews.com/2018/01/firearms-safety-schools/

While not a mandatory class state wide:



Jerry - 1/29/2020 at 12:40 AM

Hit send before I finished.

https://www.joplinglobe.com/news/kansas-bill-would-require-schools-offering -gun-safety-use-nra/article_5c20b77a-19cb-11e8-8f31-97bce05f46f8.html
Not mandatory state wide, but class is mandatory where taught.


BrerRabbit - 1/29/2020 at 12:42 AM

Those are all hunter safety, gun safety, shooter situation drill - no live rounds used in curriculum - with opt out for parents who object - looks sensible.


Jerry - 1/29/2020 at 12:50 AM

quote:
quote:
It’s worth serious consideration if not a try - there would be opposition b/c of higher taxes, the newness of it etc
But it’s a new angle that is better than what we’ve had


y’all need to work on your trolling better. you need to say something poignant and thoughtful to get people riled up. looking like stooges doesn’t help your case.

Yes, we’ll add a new class to all schools, extend school hours, hire hundreds of thousands of shooting instructors....each school will of course need massive insurance policies, even more massive health plans for accidents, new legal teams for the lawsuits.....oh yeah, and forget the freedom of the people. Screw freedom! Don’t want your kid to shoot guns at school? TOUGH! “Better than what we’ve had”??? Wow.

nowadays the right side seems to love those fascist foreign dictator type societies.


Grade school-Eddie Eagle, free, videos and material. Middle school-marksmanship and hunter safety taught by local LEOs and DNR at the police range. Generally free except for ammo., which is cheap since they use BB guns. High school-Advanced marksmanship, pistol and rifle clubs, skeet and trap shooting.
Only costs ammo since the kids can't own a firearm.

"Screw freedom!" That's your expertise since you want to disarm everyone.


Skydog32103 - 1/29/2020 at 12:55 AM

quote:
"Screw freedom!" That's your expertise since you want to disarm everyone.


I’m only for an effective vetting system, but if you was to sound like someone in over your head, because you can’t figure out a response, please go right ahead.


BIGV - 1/29/2020 at 01:54 AM

quote:
quote:
"Screw freedom!" That's your expertise since you want to disarm everyone.


I’m only for an effective vetting system, but if you was to sound like someone in over your head, because you can’t figure out a response, please go right ahead.


"Effective"...keyword. Please elaborate and while you're at it, include your plan to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals.


Skydog32103 - 1/29/2020 at 02:16 AM

quote:
"Effective"...keyword. Please elaborate and while you're at it, include your plan to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals.


who said anything about the black market? you have got to stop with the straw arguments. I’m only interested in ways of preventing undiagnosed deranged psychos from purchasing.


BIGV - 1/29/2020 at 05:46 AM

quote:
quote:
"Effective"...keyword. Please elaborate and while you're at it, include your plan to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals.


who said anything about the black market? you have got to stop with the straw arguments. I’m only interested in ways of preventing undiagnosed deranged psychos from purchasing.


I mentioned it and I will continue to mention it because it is THE problem in the gun issue ...

quote:
I’m only interested in ways of preventing undiagnosed deranged psychos from purchasing.


And you truly believe that deranged individuals just stroll down to the nearest gun shop to purchase?

Dude


Jerry - 1/29/2020 at 06:40 AM

quote:
quote:
"Effective"...keyword. Please elaborate and while you're at it, include your plan to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals.


who said anything about the black market? you have got to stop with the straw arguments. I’m only interested in ways of preventing undiagnosed deranged psychos from purchasing.


If I'm not mistaken, you mentioned it in several threads.
Your straw argument about the "undiagnosed deranged psychos" has lost any value in the discussion. We've asked several times who they are, and you can't tell us.
Your figures of "millions" are made up since you can't give any evidence of those numbers.
Your constant refrain of "common sense gun laws" is nothing but a mantra for the anti-gunners, the ones who wish to disarm the populace slowly and deceitful by using the old, tired phrase "well, you compromised here, why can't you compromise now".
Think of those who you would disarm. What protection would they have against those who would do violence to them or their families? Think of the children that would live in fear, mothers who pull their children off playgrounds and back from friends when it gets dark, dads who feel helpless that they can't protect their loved ones, whole areas of towns that lock down before dark because they can't defend themselves against the evil that awaits outside, arm the populace and make those who would do evil afraid to go out do harm.
Your constant refusal to answer when asked, repeatedly posting the same thing, always ridiculing those who don't fall in line with your narrative, and dismissing anything that can actually help with the reduction of violence has given me the feeling, and opinion, that you are either a shill for the anti-gunners, or a troll.
Which one are you, if you are, and why do you continue to do the above things?

Begin edit: As far as a plan to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, we've asked you the same question, that is answered with a snarky response, or by the internet version of crickets. We've answered yours, now answer ours.
So again, WHAT IS YOUR PLAN TO KEEP GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF CRIMINALS?

We're patient, and can wait a while for an answer.

[Edited on 1/29/2020 by Jerry]


Skydog32103 - 1/29/2020 at 02:19 PM

quote:
I mentioned it and I will continue to mention it because it is THE problem in the gun issue ...


But I thought you said it was a mental health issue? Yet another straw argument from the scarecrow.


Skydog32103 - 1/29/2020 at 02:24 PM

quote:
Your constant refusal to answer when asked, repeatedly posting the same thing, always ridiculing those who don't fall in line with your narrative, and dismissing anything that can actually help with the reduction of violence has given me the feeling, and opinion, that you are either a shill for the anti-gunners, or a troll.


does this mean the right will worship me and elect me as President?


BIGV - 1/29/2020 at 02:59 PM

quote:
quote:
I mentioned it and I will continue to mention it because it is THE problem in the gun issue ...


But I thought you said it was a mental health issue? Yet another straw argument from the scarecrow.


Anyone who deems it OK and sane to acquire a weapon and turn it loose on innocent people has a Mental Health issue, period. Make all the new laws you want, this will do absolutely nothing to stop people from gaining access to guns illegally.


BrerRabbit - 1/29/2020 at 03:45 PM

Been unarmed thru a lifetime of plenty real danger and around lots of screwed up people with guns, cops and robbers both - situations where if I had pulled a gun instead of using my wits I would have been dead. Pulled a gun nothing, more like sneezed and been dead And been armed in a lot of situations where it was unnecessary.

I have a lot more faith in humanity than you think. You wanr to carry all day every day go ahead. I dont need it.



Skydog32103 - 1/29/2020 at 04:47 PM

quote:
Anyone who deems it OK and sane to acquire a weapon and turn it loose on innocent people has a Mental Health issue, period.


agreed. we should probably figure out a way to stop them from buying legally. i bet we agree on this, just a matter of how.

quote:
Make all the new laws you want, this will do absolutely nothing to stop people from gaining access to guns illegally.


Criminals already cannot purchase because of background checks, and yes, they’ll always get them on the black market. we’ve seen so many mass shooters that are deranged millennials who live with their parents (giffords shooter in AZ, the kid who dressed as the joker in the theater).....do you really believe these weaklings would be able to navigate the black market? I just think we should force these fools into the black market so they can maybe get caught prior to the shooting. just my own personal opinion. but if that would upset folks, then whatever. It is what it is.



[Edited on 1/29/2020 by Skydog32103]


BrerRabbit - 1/29/2020 at 05:03 PM

This whole endless "what is your plan for keeping guns away from criminals" is just the old "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" bumpersticker.

What you are saying is criminals are going to have guns no matter what. I agree. So carry if you want. Gun awareness classes, fine - I would have been happy to have weapons training in school.

Mandatory carry for all citizens is over the top, we have the right to not bear arms same as the right to bear arms.


BIGV - 1/30/2020 at 02:31 AM

quote:
What you are saying is criminals are going to have guns no matter what. I agree.


Exactly. So, how do we end the "Black Market"? My thoughts?...You have to make the penalty for owning an unregistered weapon very severe. Want a "New Law"....


Start with that.


BrerRabbit - 1/30/2020 at 02:53 AM

quote:
Want a "New Law"....


Nope, dont want new laws, not in my state anyway. I cant speak for other states - but the laws in places I lived, AZ, Pacific NW are fine.


[Edited on 1/30/2020 by BrerRabbit]


BIGV - 1/30/2020 at 04:51 PM

quote:
quote:
Want a "New Law"....


Nope, dont want new laws, not in my state anyway. I cant speak for other states - but the laws in places I lived, AZ, Pacific NW are fine.


Look at that, we agree!


Skydog32103 - 1/30/2020 at 04:54 PM

i’m glad the thread title was finally changed, thanks Jerry. now it’s 100% professional and respectful of others.


BrerRabbit - 1/30/2020 at 05:25 PM

quote:
Look at that, we agree!


Oregon is a true blue state, but the gun laws are rock solid constitutional here. We probably would diverge on L.A. or Chicago, I think urban freefire zones need to be handled by our military, with full ban and house to house disarmament. Kinda nazi of me I guess.



[Edited on 1/30/2020 by BrerRabbit]


Stephen - 1/30/2020 at 06:26 PM

They’ve denied bail for the policeman who shot & killed a handcuffed suspect as the suspect sat in the police car, citing the cop as a danger to the community (not Baltimore but Temple Hills MD) - not directly pertinent to the thread, but a criminal has been taken off the streets, so the system works - this is plain-out murder


Jerry - 1/31/2020 at 08:36 PM

quote:
quote:
What you are saying is criminals are going to have guns no matter what. I agree.


Exactly. So, how do we end the "Black Market"? My thoughts?...You have to make the penalty for owning an unregistered weapon very severe. Want a "New Law"....


Start with that.


No, let's not.
Canada tried that, didn't work, costly and inefficient.
The US Supreme Court says that criminals do not have to get licenses or register their weapons, as that would be "self incrimination" and against the 5th Amendment.
Germany did that in 1935. A few years later laws were introduced to ban Jews and others from owning firearms. Guess how they knew where to go?
Russia, same thing.

There are thousands of gun laws on the books. Some are good ones. Unfortunately politicians keep passing laws already on the books.


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