Thread: At least 6 hurt in shooting at California high school, suspect in custody

BIGV - 11/14/2019 at 07:50 PM

https://youtu.be/JyOcvMB-cvk

Another minor who is also a Student. So sad.

But it's NOT a Mental Heath issue...


BrerRabbit - 11/14/2019 at 08:12 PM

Wow - didn't miss a beat there, not even a pause for breath - two seconds of bogus sentiment then straight into gun politics. Quickest I've ever seen that happen on a shooting thread, though of course gun politics is the only reason for these threads, so you aren't being singled out - this was just more honest and to the point - real fast some Charlie Brown teacher noise wawawaA wa wa waaa wa then boom "Mental health".

[Edited on 11/14/2019 by BrerRabbit]


adhill58 - 11/14/2019 at 09:24 PM

quote:
https://youtu.be/JyOcvMB-cvk

Another minor who is also a Student. So sad.

But it's NOT a Mental Heath issue...


You have made this point endlessly. What are the mental health solutions that you or your right-wing heroes have ready to go that will do anything to fix this epidemic?


Stephen - 11/14/2019 at 10:01 PM

Right wing heroes, left wing liberals, moderates, BLAH - has nothing to do with it
There’s no answer/solution to gun violence
Would also hesitate to call it an epidemic, they happen occasionally, not often IMO - one of these are one too many, of course there have been several
All the ensuing discussion will have been posted many times before (see POTUS thread)


BIGV - 11/14/2019 at 10:06 PM

quote:
quote:
https://youtu.be/JyOcvMB-cvk

Another minor who is also a Student. So sad.

But it's NOT a Mental Heath issue...


You have made this point endlessly. What are the mental health solutions that you or your right-wing heroes have ready to go that will do anything to fix this epidemic?


What do I think?

Horrific parenting


KCJimmy - 11/14/2019 at 10:14 PM

I am right there with ya BV but that is a cause not a solution. Try this, BETTER (as in not liberal) parenting.

Now I must edit. Even liberal parenting is better than horrific parenting. Knee Jerk reaction for me to assume there is not much difference. But that is my flaw.

[Edited on 11/14/2019 by KCJimmy]


KCJimmy - 11/14/2019 at 10:50 PM

I am guessing that some laws dealing with horrible parenting are not utilized any more effectively than some of the laws regarding gun ownership and background checks.




BrerRabbit - 11/14/2019 at 10:58 PM

quote:
Horrific parenting


What do you know about parenting?


KCJimmy - 11/14/2019 at 11:01 PM

quote:
quote:
Horrific parenting


What do you know about parenting?
I Know a Little.


Bhawk - 11/14/2019 at 11:14 PM

quote:
I am right there with ya BV but that is a cause not a solution. Try this, BETTER (as in not liberal) parenting.

Now I must edit. Even liberal parenting is better than horrific parenting. Knee Jerk reaction for me to assume there is not much difference. But that is my flaw.

[Edited on 11/14/2019 by KCJimmy]


My wife and I are liberal. One daughter, 16. 3.8 GPA, choir, varsity cheer, rep theatre, National Honor Society. Works 20 hours a week, works on homework as many or more hours a week. Career goal is Medical Lab Scientist.

You and the rest of the perfect conservatives and perfect conservative parents can GFY, pal.


Stephen - 11/14/2019 at 11:24 PM

One recalls the 1979 shooting at a California elementary school (2 dead 9 injured) by a 16 yr old teenager, Brenda Spencer - when asked why she did it, she said, “I don’t like Mondays”

How do you craft legislation to anticipate someThing, or keep guns out of the hands of someOne, like that
Never any easier to read about this stuff

[Edited on 11/15/2019 by Stephen]


BrerRabbit - 11/14/2019 at 11:24 PM

quote:
I Know a Little.


Was asking BigV - you strike me as a parent type. I have noticed "liberal dads" tend to help out more with the dirty work, more equality and respect between men and women in general.


BIGV - 11/14/2019 at 11:47 PM

quote:
I am right there with ya BV but that is a cause not a solution. Try this, BETTER (as in not liberal) parenting.

Now I must edit. Even liberal parenting is better than horrific parenting. Knee Jerk reaction for me to assume there is not much difference. But that is my flaw.


Let me make myself perfectly clear. I have in no way insinuated that one type of Parent is better than the other, Liberal, Conservative or Libertarian...But someone should be held responsible here, how about a new direction?..Let's start holding the Parents responsible for the actions of their Minor children.....


BrerRabbit - 11/14/2019 at 11:55 PM

You didn't, and you are right - and the "horrific parenting" is a huge rabbit hole of why that is happening.


Bhawk - 11/15/2019 at 12:01 AM

Shooter was the son of an alcoholic father who had recently committed suicide.

Definitely liberal parenting. There’s no conservative alcoholics and conservatives don’t commit suicide.


DOVETAIL - 11/15/2019 at 12:56 AM

Have we heard from any congenital idiot gun nuts and/or the NRA crowing something like "See!?!?!....Strict regulations would not have stopped this!?!?!?!?!"


BIGV - 11/15/2019 at 01:01 AM

quote:
Have we heard from any congenital idiot gun nuts and/or the NRA crowing something like "See!?!?!....Strict regulations would not have stopped this!?!?!?!?!"


I think a better question is "What drives a Juvenile to act in this manner"?

Until we figure that out, you can ban all the guns you want while the mental Health issue remains...


Bhawk - 11/15/2019 at 01:06 AM

More reporting has come in, the shooter’s father didn’t commit suicide, but was an alcoholic. All signs still point to liberal parenting.


OriginalGoober - 11/15/2019 at 01:25 AM

Its looking like its another kid who didn't fit in at a random school in a random US town seemingly committing some random act. There are kids like this in every school. there should be more of a focus for some alternative methods to get through/engage kids like these. We cant change their home situation but there should be some outlet when they are at school.


Stephen - 11/15/2019 at 01:51 AM

There are numerous things for disenfranchised kids to do at school, like athletics, drama, music, others - My jr high school had Community Sing, where they played music w/the words projected onto a screen for a full assembly of kids to sing along with - but just stuff like shop (woodworking), glee club (choir).....
It was the kid’s 16th birthday
His attempt at suicide failed
Grotesque - very depressing

[Edited on 11/15/2019 by Stephen]


DOVETAIL - 11/15/2019 at 02:51 AM

quote:
quote:
Have we heard from any congenital idiot gun nuts and/or the NRA crowing something like "See!?!?!....Strict regulations would not have stopped this!?!?!?!?!"


I think a better question is "What drives a Juvenile to act in this manner"?

Until we figure that out, you can ban all the guns you want while the mental Health issue remains...

"Until we figure that out, you can ban all the guns you want while the mental Health issue remains..."...how about we ban all guns for say, ten to fifteen years, as we work to eradicate those acmental health issues....Meanwhile, you can just confine yourself to,playing video games til you lose your mind or shoot yourself with a gun you bought at a show (sic)-----sound good there Gaylord?


BIGV - 11/15/2019 at 04:02 AM

quote:
how about we ban all guns for say, ten to fifteen years, as we work to eradicate those acmental health issues....


Not ever going to happen


StratDal - 11/15/2019 at 04:26 AM

Some friends of ours go to school at Saugus High. Fortunately, they don't have a first period class so they were on there way there when the shooting happened. They returned home and are safe. Right now, that's all the matters to me and my family.



Stephen - 11/15/2019 at 08:24 AM

Can’t help seeing the similarities
Two 16 year old California kids shoot up their schools, one an elementary school in San Diego, the other a high school in Santa Clarita,
each leaving two dead, a handful wounded & onlookers/witnesses shaken to the core by what they saw
& separated by almost 41 years
bookending many other such incidents
each time, spurring renewed calls for stricter laws to prevent such tragedies from ever happening again

We can’t ever become so jaded as to become blasé about & indifferent to these scenes - one recalls Mississippi as depicted in the lyrics “Where they smile & shrug their shoulder at the murder of a man”
But we must also be realistic - it’ll happen again w/loved ones lost - glad your friends were spared StratDal


adhill58 - 11/15/2019 at 01:11 PM

What do I think?

Horrific parenting

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------

So, are you saying that people in every other modern industrialized country are incredibly better parents than parents in the USA? What makes Canadian parents so much better?


adhill58 - 11/15/2019 at 01:28 PM

quote:
Right wing heroes, left wing liberals, moderates, BLAH - has nothing to do with it
There’s no answer/solution to gun violence
Would also hesitate to call it an epidemic, they happen occasionally, not often IMO - one of these are one too many, of course there have been several
All the ensuing discussion will have been posted many times before (see POTUS thread)


https://www.vox.com/a/mass-shootings-america-sandy-hook-gun-violence

This is a great graphic that Vox keeps current about mass shootings. I know some have a problem with Vox's perceived liberal slant, but it is worth a look. They use 4 people shot in the same incident as their definition - nobody has to die. They also do not exclude gang-related shootings as some other researchers do.

When I first looked at the calendar on this study a few months ago, there had only been one Sunday through Saturday calendar week in the USA since the Sandy Hook shooting in 2012 without a mass shooting. Many weeks or even single days have multiple incidents.

My opinion is that it qualifies as an epidemic or, at the very least, something that deserves to not just be shrugged off.





[Edited on 11/15/2019 by adhill58]


Stephen - 11/15/2019 at 01:39 PM

Mental Illness - we’ll never know, he’s in the hospital w/a self inflicted shattered skull
Horrific Parenting - unsure about where the Canadian vs US parenting angle comes in - it might yet come out that he was raised in an abusive environment, triggering his rampage - or mayb bullied at school
The words Republican & Democrat don’t belong here - neither do temporary insanity, it’s no different from a temper tantrum & would’ve been no defense against what the kid did


Stephen - 11/15/2019 at 02:22 PM

Good post indeed Skydog32103 - less a part of the problem, the frustration I feel in saying nothing can be done about gun violence is that, That Very Thing You Mentioned - let’s brainstorm & figure out a plan right away - has been done so many times before - yet the carnage continues
As you said, as long as there are guns in every home, & easily purchased from stores.....there will be more such tragedies - that is how I see it as well

Thanks for the graphic adhill58 - gosh just a quick look at it shows how widespread gun violence is - certainly a lot more so than what I thought

[Edited on 11/15/2019 by Stephen]


adhill58 - 11/15/2019 at 02:40 PM

quote:
Mental Illness - we’ll never know, he’s in the hospital w/a self inflicted shattered skull
Horrific Parenting - unsure about where the Canadian vs US parenting angle comes in - it might yet come out that he was raised in an abusive environment, triggering his rampage - or mayb bullied at school
The words Republican & Democrat don’t belong here - neither do temporary insanity, it’s no different from a temper tantrum & would’ve been no defense against what the kid did




The question about parents in Canada was because they don't have a sliver of a fraction of the number of mass shootings that we have here. If horrific parenting is the main contributor to mass shootings, Canadian parents must be astonishingly better at parenting than parents in the USA.


Stephen - 11/15/2019 at 03:28 PM

Mayb that could be a start - whether it’s superior parenting, realistic attainable gun control measures we haven’t thought of or enacted here, or how they might approach mental illness etc.....
......Open lines of communication w/Canada, investigating if we could model our approach after theirs in hopes of lessening mass shootings here

[Edited on 11/15/2019 by Stephen]


KCJimmy - 11/15/2019 at 05:34 PM

quote:
quote:
I am right there with ya BV but that is a cause not a solution. Try this, BETTER (as in not liberal) parenting.

Now I must edit. Even liberal parenting is better than horrific parenting. Knee Jerk reaction for me to assume there is not much difference. But that is my flaw.

[Edited on 11/14/2019 by KCJimmy]


My wife and I are liberal. One daughter, 16. 3.8 GPA, choir, varsity cheer, rep theatre, National Honor Society. Works 20 hours a week, works on homework as many or more hours a week. Career goal is Medical Lab Scientist.

You and the rest of the perfect conservatives and perfect conservative parents can GFY, pal.
GOOD JOB! and right back at bro.


KCJimmy - 11/15/2019 at 05:37 PM

quote:
quote:
I Know a Little.


Was asking BigV - you strike me as a parent type. I have noticed "liberal dads" tend to help out more with the dirty work, more equality and respect between men and women in general.
I am a parent but not as good as BHAWK. I do dishes & laundry if that's what you mean. I even make coffee on occasion. Tried making Cofevet once but couldn't spell it right and didn't have a proper tweeter machine.

[Edited on 11/15/2019 by KCJimmy]


BIGV - 11/15/2019 at 05:53 PM

quote:
Unfortunately, sometimes it takes the people to revolt for politicians to listen and act, and if both sides can come together with an honest effort to create a plan of action, then we can reverse this trend.



It has nothing to do with a "Plan of action" or a "trend" and the only "Revolution" that will avail itself is the Parent seeking help for the Son or Daughter who is exhibiting behaviors that require an opinion from a Mental health professional. Tough call?......I can only imagine. Otherwise give us one valid reason a minor would have for turning a weapon of any kind on his fellow classmates.


KCJimmy - 11/15/2019 at 05:56 PM

quote:
.Let's start holding the Parents responsible for the actions of their Minor children.....
THAT is a GOOD solution.

quote:
Shooter was the son of an alcoholic father who had recently committed suicide.

Definitely liberal parenting. There’s no conservative alcoholics and conservatives don’t commit suicide.
Look man I realized how bad the post looked immediately and edited it to indicate that. I could have deleted that part but felt like it would be dishonest. So I poked at my own flaw. You sound like an excellent parent. I am sorry that your political beliefs are flawed, But clearly mine are as well. Perhaps somewhere in middle....yeah not likely, I've seen a lot of your posts and you have seen a lot of mine.

quote:
Some friends of ours go to school at Saugus High. Fortunately, they don't have a first period class so they were on there way there when the shooting happened. They returned home and are safe. Right now, that's all the matters to me and my family.
Amen to that.

quote:
The words Republican & Democrat don’t belong here
Amen to that too.


Bhawk - 11/15/2019 at 09:51 PM

quote:
Look man I realized how bad the post looked immediately and edited it to indicate that. I could have deleted that part but felt like it would be dishonest. So I poked at my own flaw. You sound like an excellent parent. I am sorry that your political beliefs are flawed, But clearly mine are as well. Perhaps somewhere in middle....yeah not likely, I've seen a lot of your posts and you have seen a lot of mine.


There's no reason for any lingering bad blood. Wasn't even comparing my worth as a parent to you. We've never met.

But, politics is very mean and very nasty these days. We all make our own choices when it comes to responses. I used to give a lot of thought to them and at one time I was committed to finding better conversations. Sure, there were always swipes at each other, but some of the best conversations I've ever had about a lot of political issues I've had on this website.

Over time, people cared less and less about the longer, more analytical responses, I realized no one cares, so I gave up. Why bother if no one reads it?

The only way to survive in political discourse is to always reply in kind. Rush Limbaugh went on air 30 years ago and the demonization of liberals hasn't stopped since. I wish more liberals would stand up for themselves and reply with the same vitriol that they receive, just as much as I wish that more liberals would realize that the right will always hate them. Always. No matter what, nothing trumps that hatred, and nothing ever will. Pun intended.

But, in the end, I'm only one schmo with an opinion.

I wish you well.


KCJimmy - 11/15/2019 at 10:55 PM

quote:
quote:
Look man I realized how bad the post looked immediately and edited it to indicate that. I could have deleted that part but felt like it would be dishonest. So I poked at my own flaw. You sound like an excellent parent. I am sorry that your political beliefs are flawed, But clearly mine are as well. Perhaps somewhere in middle....yeah not likely, I've seen a lot of your posts and you have seen a lot of mine.


There's no reason for any lingering bad blood. Wasn't even comparing my worth as a parent to you. We've never met.

But, politics is very mean and very nasty these days. We all make our own choices when it comes to responses. I used to give a lot of thought to them and at one time I was committed to finding better conversations. Sure, there were always swipes at each other, but some of the best conversations I've ever had about a lot of political issues I've had on this website.

Over time, people cared less and less about the longer, more analytical responses, I realized no one cares, so I gave up. Why bother if no one reads it?

The only way to survive in political discourse is to always reply in kind. Rush Limbaugh went on air 30 years ago and the demonization of liberals hasn't stopped since. I wish more liberals would stand up for themselves and reply with the same vitriol that they receive, just as much as I wish that more liberals would realize that the right will always hate them. Always. No matter what, nothing trumps that hatred, and nothing ever will. Pun intended.

But, in the end, I'm only one schmo with an opinion.

I wish you well.
Back at ya again. I couldn't find one damn thing to disagree with in that post. I might add a vice-versa to the 2nd to last paragraph.(That's wice-wersa in Russian) Guess I'll look somewhere else for conflict.


2112 - 11/16/2019 at 02:22 AM

quote:
quote:
But it's NOT a Mental Heath issue...


Who is saying this? Any links? Or is this just more huffing and puffing about Democrats?



It's just a way to try to change the discussion away from guns. I have yet to hear somebody who thinks these shootings are due to mental health issues propose that the government put more resources into treating mental illness, and most also oppose expanded background checks to keep guns out of the hands of those with mental illness.

It basically means that I support the status quo, it's not the guns, so just move along.


BIGV - 11/16/2019 at 03:04 AM

quote:
It's just a way to try to change the discussion away from guns.


No. "It's a way" of saying the gun is not to blame when someone with Mental health challenges turns a gun on innocent people...


Stephen - 11/16/2019 at 03:30 AM

His condition was initially listed as “grave” but the shooter has now been upgraded to critical & might survive
There was no apparent mental illness on his part, it took everyone by complete surprise
On a more positive note an apparently-credible threat at another school was thwarted, so mayb some of the anti mass-shooting measures in place, are proving out


BIGV - 11/16/2019 at 03:44 AM

quote:
There was no apparent mental illness on his part, it took everyone by complete surprise


"Took everyone by complete surprise"....."no apparent mental illness"

What other possible reason could there be that does not lead back to Mental illness?


Stephen - 11/16/2019 at 04:01 AM

I get ya, for sure - mayb he had some sort of undetected dormant imbalance that got activated who knows how - was described in one account as “a quiet dude” - they found other guns at his house apparently


2112 - 11/16/2019 at 05:42 AM

quote:
quote:
It's just a way to try to change the discussion away from guns.


No. "It's a way" of saying the gun is not to blame when someone with Mental health challenges turns a gun on innocent people...


Yet I see you propose zero solutions to the problem. You oppose increased background checks. I haven't seen you propose additional resources going toward mental health. So, what is your solution?


Bhawk - 11/16/2019 at 05:33 PM

quote:
I'll never understand why some people get so defensive whenever we acknowledge the gun part of this issue.


Because they believe that all you want is to take all the guns away, and there is no middle ground.

If you say you only want compromise, they’ll never believe you anyway.

The core tenet of hyper-polarization and hyper-partisanship is that the “other” lives their lives in a way that is unacceptable...it’s about how people live their lives.

That’s why phrases like “agree to disagree” and “honest, respectful debate” have become so silly and quaint.

There’s no going back.


Stephen - 11/16/2019 at 05:45 PM

Guns became a problem the minute they were invented. They continue to be today, always will be & no rhetoric, conversation or legislation will change things
One media outlet is reporting that the shooter has passed away


BrerRabbit - 11/16/2019 at 06:14 PM

Bhawk nailed this ages ago. Honest fatalism, hard to take but easier to listen to than all the bullsh!t wishwash.

The gun bought us our liberty, now it has taken it away.

Gotta get real, accept we live in ballistic hell, might as well be in shootemup shantytown in Kingston Jamaica.

So we have chosen the Way of the Gun. That is a whole new world, with a whole new set of rules.

Bummer - hate to say this, but generally when folks start running around with guns and killing people it is a state of war, or emergency.

National emergency. Martial law. A soldier with a machine gun in every classroom, armed squads in every public gathering place.


Stephen - 11/16/2019 at 06:52 PM

Yes he did, & the grim possibilities portrayed by you & he of armed squads in public places/classrooms, as part of national martial law in addressing Gun Violence/Mass Shootings

....we saw the makings of it in airports after 9/11, with armed US marshals & federal lawmen posted in every major airport & on some flights - it was very intense the one or two times I went to an airport (Logan) around then - soldiers in fatigues & berets, machine gun in hand

We can only Monitor, not control the ebb & flow of GV/MS - continued communication/conversation (brainstorming as skydog3210 said) is also paramount


BIGV - 11/17/2019 at 05:17 AM

quote:
quote:
I'll never understand why some people get so defensive whenever we acknowledge the gun part of this issue.


quote:
Because they believe that all you want is to take all the guns away, and there is no middle ground.


What was that statement by "Beto" the former Candidate for President of the United States?


BIGV - 11/17/2019 at 05:23 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
It's just a way to try to change the discussion away from guns.


No. "It's a way" of saying the gun is not to blame when someone with Mental health challenges turns a gun on innocent people...


Yet I see you propose zero solutions to the problem. You oppose increased background checks. I haven't seen you propose additional resources going toward mental health. So, what is your solution?


I am not opposed to increased background checks, I do however feel they are not the solution, because more Laws are never the answer. Imho, this is an issue that can not be "fixed" until the public takes individual responsibility....which at this rate will never happen.

I am not a Legislator.

I suggest you purchase a gun and protect you and yours.


Bhawk - 11/17/2019 at 01:51 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
I'll never understand why some people get so defensive whenever we acknowledge the gun part of this issue.


quote:
Because they believe that all you want is to take all the guns away, and there is no middle ground.


What was that statement by "Beto" the former Candidate for President of the United States?




Your commitment to asking the most ridiculous questions just to remain smug and obtuse at all times will never cease to amaze me.


Stephen - 11/17/2019 at 04:34 PM

Gunfire erupted at a high school football game yesterday in NJ, leaving a 10 year old boy caught in the crossfire & in critical condition

It’s sick - yes am convinced it’s an epidemic - all the recent one-year stories of the Pittsburgh synagogue & Ft. Hood massacres, now these most recent two
It’s an epidemic for which there’s no cure or end in sight


2112 - 11/18/2019 at 02:32 AM

Clearly the only solution is to require all school children to be armed as is their right under the second amendment.


BIGV - 11/18/2019 at 03:33 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'll never understand why some people get so defensive whenever we acknowledge the gun part of this issue.


quote:
Because they believe that all you want is to take all the guns away, and there is no middle ground.


What was that statement by "Beto" the former Candidate for President of the United States?




Your commitment to asking the most ridiculous questions just to remain smug and obtuse at all times will never cease to amaze me.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I look forward to your future defense of the opaque "leadership" as conferred by the "geniuses" of the Democratic Party.


Stephen - 11/18/2019 at 11:48 AM

There was a backyard cookout yesterday in Fresno Calif w/people watching football etc
Four shot dead at this BBQ - people showed up, starting shooting, fled - other circumstances unclear
These last two incidents may not be charted on the graph adhill58 provided as ‘mass shootings’ but they should be

nothing abstract or mysterious about it, this is a horrendous thing that is happening all the time

Jerry mentioned the Eddie the Eagle program that used to be offered in elementary schools

Something like that needs to be reintroduced into grade school in an effort to properly educate youngsters about guns - that yes, they’re toys now but as grownups they’re not toys anymore

Otherwise the scenario described in 2112’s most recent post, may not be so far fetched

David Ortiz was the victim of gun violence but has completely recovered, & happy birthday Big Papi - 44 today

[Edited on 11/18/2019 by Stephen]


goldtop - 11/18/2019 at 06:26 PM

So who exactly is the "Well regulated militia" can anyone point to those people?? "Well regulated" doesn't seem to be the way it is. Nor is there a militia. We have local, county, state, federal police, FBI, CIA, Army, Navy, USMC, Air Force, National Guard, Coast Guard did I leave out any of the "Well regulated militia".

I think the founders would have found those institutions to be the one covered in the 2A not a bunch of fat phucks who want to jerk off at the shooting range with military grade weapons until they become another of the "law abiding citizen" that suddenly have "mental health" issues or their kids find the weapon and has a "temper tantrum"

Is Joe Blow AR15 gun owner that sits at the end of the bar that spouts nonsense a part of the "Well regulated militia"?

I doubt the founder fathers would have thought so


porkchopbob - 11/18/2019 at 06:45 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'll never understand why some people get so defensive whenever we acknowledge the gun part of this issue.

quote:
Because they believe that all you want is to take all the guns away, and there is no middle ground.

What was that statement by "Beto" the former Candidate for President of the United States?

Your commitment to asking the most ridiculous questions just to remain smug and obtuse at all times will never cease to amaze me.


But BIGV proves the very point since he ask rhetorically, thereby implying the extreme sound bite ("hell yes"), but ignores the actual content of Beto's statement ("taking AR-15s, your AK47s"). It was relatively middle ground, but for some reason some people insist on the NRA line that some guns=all guns. If only the Lawn Dart lobby was so strong.


BrerRabbit - 11/18/2019 at 06:50 PM

quote:
. . .fat phucks who want to jerk off at the shooting range with military grade weapons until they become another of the "law abiding citizen" that suddenly have "mental health" issues. . .


HahahaHAHAA!!! Same magaJabbas who are gonna have a civil war, if they can manage to ooze out of their La-Z Boys.



[Edited on 11/18/2019 by BrerRabbit]


BrerRabbit - 11/18/2019 at 06:56 PM


Stephen - 11/18/2019 at 07:16 PM

3 DEAD IN SHOOTOUT AT WALMART PARKING LOT IN OKLA
No more reminders necessary, will stop


BrerRabbit - 11/18/2019 at 07:23 PM


Keep em comin St. Stephen - looking like it is every day now.


BrerRabbit - 11/18/2019 at 08:24 PM

quote:
. . .nothing will change.


If everyone were to arm themselves at all times everything will change. We will live in a ballistic dystopia we can't even conceive of - total military alert, total surveillance, the measure of weapons and personnel in law enforcement will increase in direct proportion to the number of armed citizens carrying.

The only winner in all this is the firearm industry - every massacre increases sales, every sale increases massacres - they are laughing all the way to the bank.


Stephen - 11/18/2019 at 08:47 PM

quote:
quote:
. . .nothing will change.


If everyone were to arm themselves at all times everything will change.


SOMEthing has to change - WHAT that change is, is the blank area - don’t forget, 22 people were shot dead at a Walmart in El Paso in August
All these scenarios of a fully armed citizenry could happen - you certainly can’t take all the guns away


Jerry - 11/18/2019 at 09:17 PM

quote:
So who exactly is the "Well regulated militia" can anyone point to those people?? "Well regulated" doesn't seem to be the way it is. Nor is there a militia. We have local, county, state, federal police, FBI, CIA, Army, Navy, USMC, Air Force, National Guard, Coast Guard did I leave out any of the "Well regulated militia".

I think the founders would have found those institutions to be the one covered in the 2A not a bunch of fat phucks who want to jerk off at the shooting range with military grade weapons until they become another of the "law abiding citizen" that suddenly have "mental health" issues or their kids find the weapon and has a "temper tantrum"

Is Joe Blow AR15 gun owner that sits at the end of the bar that spouts nonsense a part of the "Well regulated militia"?

I doubt the founder fathers would have thought so



The "well regulated militia" is not who the founding fathers addressed in the 2nd Amendment.

Here's the 2nd Amendment in full:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. (Caps so you know where the break is.)

It doesn't say the right of the militia, it states the right of the people, you know the same the people as in the first line of the Constitution, and the only line that was in capitol letters throughout the Constitution.

Goldtop, your seemingly hatred for those who own firearms has been noted. I don't believe it to be an opinion, just somehow you don't like firearms and those who own them. I also find your descriptive phrases to be offensive.

In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone would have possessed a firearm, and carried on them.

There are militias out there, but you don't have to be a member of a militia to be part of the people.


adhill58 - 11/18/2019 at 09:24 PM

quote:
quote:
. . .nothing will change.


If everyone were to arm themselves at all times everything will change. We will live in a ballistic dystopia we can't even conceive of - total military alert, total surveillance, the measure of weapons and personnel in law enforcement will increase in direct proportion to the number of armed citizens carrying.

The only winner in all this is the firearm industry - every massacre increases sales, every sale increases massacres - they are laughing all the way to the bank.



I was having this same discussion with my boss the other day. I stated the point of view of the gun industry like this, "We have sold enough guns to create a problem to which the only solution is selling more guns."


Jerry - 11/18/2019 at 09:31 PM

quote:


Jerry mentioned the Eddie the Eagle program that used to be offered in elementary schools

Something like that needs to be reintroduced into grade school in an effort to properly educate youngsters about guns - that yes, they’re toys now but as grownups they’re not toys anymore
[Edited on 11/18/2019 by Stephen]


https://eddieeagle.nra.org/about/

It's a great program. Teaches kids what to do if they see a firearm. "STOP, Don't Touch, Run Away, Tell A grownup."

Problem is that so many "enlightened" parents see the dreaded letters NRA and don't want their kids having anything to do with it.

When my kids were little it wasn't available. I started teaching them firearm safety at about three years old. That's when their curiosity sometimes get the better of them and we've seen what sometimes happen when kids get curious about things, even deadly things.

So really, the earlier they learn firearm safety, the better.


Jerry - 11/18/2019 at 09:34 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'll never understand why some people get so defensive whenever we acknowledge the gun part of this issue.

quote:
Because they believe that all you want is to take all the guns away, and there is no middle ground.

What was that statement by "Beto" the former Candidate for President of the United States?

Your commitment to asking the most ridiculous questions just to remain smug and obtuse at all times will never cease to amaze me.


But BIGV proves the very point since he ask rhetorically, thereby implying the extreme sound bite ("hell yes"), but ignores the actual content of Beto's statement ("taking AR-15s, your AK47s"). It was relatively middle ground, but for some reason some people insist on the NRA line that some guns=all guns. If only the Lawn Dart lobby was so strong.


You left out the part of forced confiscations.


adhill58 - 11/18/2019 at 09:39 PM

Goldtop, your seemingly hatred for those who own firearms has been noted. I don't believe it to be an opinion, just somehow you don't like firearms and those who own them. I also find your descriptive phrases to be offensive.

In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone would have possessed a firearm, and carried on them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------

If you are not one of the "shootin' range" jackasses that Goldtop was referencing, there is no need to be offended. He has a point that a certain percentage (which calculates to millions) of gun-o-philes are stone cold losers. The power of a guns is obviously very attractive to people who cannot find success in normal social operating systems.

In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone crapped into a hole in their yard and thought it was sanitary. Times change... hopefully for the good of public health. By "public health", I mean not having bullet holes in your body at the grocery store.


2112 - 11/18/2019 at 09:48 PM

quote:

In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone would have possessed a firearm, and carried on them.



True, but what kind of firearms were they? Big difference between muzzleloading flintlock muskets and what is used to shoot up schools today.


Jerry - 11/18/2019 at 09:51 PM

I left this out of my earlier posts because I wanted it to stand alone, no modifiers, no protests, no arguing.

My heart lies heavy knowing the pain and suffering of the families involved in any shooting.
The victims ask "why us, him, or her"?
The killers' who ask "Why did he/she do it?
The friends and neighbors say "We didn't see it coming!"

There never is just one reason, but multiples. Could it be drugs, bullying, being left out of groups, frustration of forced to be a loner?
Many times we will never know what, why, or who set off the incident.

Right now there is nothing we can do for the ones left behind except empathy for them and support, until we come together, as a group of people, to find ways to handle the threats of these shootings.


BrerRabbit - 11/18/2019 at 10:37 PM

quote:
In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone crapped into a hole in their yard and thought it was sanitary.


And they wiped with corn cobs. They were made of stronger stuff.


Jerry - 11/18/2019 at 10:41 PM

quote:
quote:

In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone would have possessed a firearm, and carried on them.



True, but what kind of firearms were they? Big difference between muzzleloading flintlock muskets and what is used to shoot up schools today.


2112, how did I know you would bring up that old line. You have obviously missed out on the lessons on historical firearms in previous threads.

Since you asked.

Cookson Rifle, a 9 shot repeating rifle (lever action) that was developed in the 1690's (that's 80 years before the Revolution) and one that the Continental Congress issued an order to John Cookson of Boston for 100 rifles to be used in the Revolutionary War. You can go to the NRA Museum and look at one of them on line.

There were the Loernzoni system pistols available for purchase, but they were made in small numbers.

How about actual revolvers. Stopler made, and sold, revolvers as early as 1597.

How about the Puckle Gun, commonly acknowledge as the earliest machine gun, used it the Revolution and first made in 1719.

Not to forget the Girindonii rifle, a 10 shot, revolving cylinder affair.
A Girandoni Rifle was magazine fed, fired 22 shots of .46 caliber lead balls in one minute, and, it was an air rifle.

The Ferguson Rifle wasn't multi shot, but it was one of the several breech loading firearms used by both sides.

The Kalthoff repeating musket, 16 shot.

In a letter to the Continental Congress, April 1777, Joseph Belton stated: "May it please your honors, I would just inform this honorable assembly, that I have discover'd an improvement, in the use of small armes, wherin a small arm, may be maid to discharge eight balls one after another, in eight, five, or three seconds of time."

He was speaking of the Belton Flintlock. The Continental Congress was interested, but decided the cost was too much for their budget.

So, YES, they knew of developments in firearms, knew of repeating rifles, knew of a type of firearm that later became the machine gun, knew of revolvers, multi shot rifles, and even air guns.

Need more examples, let me know.



goldtop - 11/18/2019 at 10:50 PM

I don't hate guns or gun owners I hate inaction based on words when people owned a musket that took 2 minutes to load and shoot compared to now when people think of guns as toys not weapons.


Jerry - 11/18/2019 at 11:02 PM

quote:
Goldtop, your seemingly hatred for those who own firearms has been noted. I don't believe it to be an opinion, just somehow you don't like firearms and those who own them. I also find your descriptive phrases to be offensive.

In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone would have possessed a firearm, and carried on them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------

If you are not one of the "shootin' range" jackasses that Goldtop was referencing, there is no need to be offended. He has a point that a certain percentage (which calculates to millions) of gun-o-philes are stone cold losers. The power of a guns is obviously very attractive to people who cannot find success in normal social operating systems.

In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone crapped into a hole in their yard and thought it was sanitary. Times change... hopefully for the good of public health. By "public health", I mean not having bullet holes in your body at the grocery store.


His offensive post was that he made no distinction between any and included all.


Jerry - 11/18/2019 at 11:02 PM

quote:
I don't hate guns or gun owners I hate inaction based on words when people owned a musket that took 2 minutes to load and shoot compared to now when people think of guns as toys not weapons.




Read post above yours.


Jerry - 11/18/2019 at 11:03 PM

quote:



What show were you watching to cause that kind of reaction?


Jerry - 11/18/2019 at 11:09 PM

quote:
quote:
In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone crapped into a hole in their yard and thought it was sanitary.


And they wiped with corn cobs. They were made of stronger stuff.


Only those who didn't live with those high falutin', rich city ways.

If you had money, you used a sponge.


goldtop - 11/18/2019 at 11:26 PM

quote:
quote:
I don't hate guns or gun owners I hate inaction based on words when people owned a musket that took 2 minutes to load and shoot compared to now when people think of guns as toys not weapons.




Read post above yours.


In everyone of your examples they were going to be used in military settings by the Continental congress in war against the British or other military uses. There's no mention of the everyday civilians using these weapons to protect themselves from their neighbor.

I have no issue with guns being used in military actions or public police actions.

I have no issue with people who want to hunt. I have family that does.

I have an issue when people think owning a gun is more important than a child feeling free at school and puts that above sensible changes to make that happen

More of anything just means more. Not everyone should own a weapon and it should be a very long hard process to own one. They're not toys they are designed to kill. Lawn darts weren't


2112 - 11/18/2019 at 11:31 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:

In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone would have possessed a firearm, and carried on them.



True, but what kind of firearms were they? Big difference between muzzleloading flintlock muskets and what is used to shoot up schools today.


2112, how did I know you would bring up that old line. You have obviously missed out on the lessons on historical firearms in previous threads.

Since you asked.

Cookson Rifle, a 9 shot repeating rifle (lever action) that was developed in the 1690's (that's 80 years before the Revolution) and one that the Continental Congress issued an order to John Cookson of Boston for 100 rifles to be used in the Revolutionary War. You can go to the NRA Museum and look at one of them on line.

There were the Loernzoni system pistols available for purchase, but they were made in small numbers.

How about actual revolvers. Stopler made, and sold, revolvers as early as 1597.

How about the Puckle Gun, commonly acknowledge as the earliest machine gun, used it the Revolution and first made in 1719.

Not to forget the Girindonii rifle, a 10 shot, revolving cylinder affair.
A Girandoni Rifle was magazine fed, fired 22 shots of .46 caliber lead balls in one minute, and, it was an air rifle.

The Ferguson Rifle wasn't multi shot, but it was one of the several breech loading firearms used by both sides.

The Kalthoff repeating musket, 16 shot.

In a letter to the Continental Congress, April 1777, Joseph Belton stated: "May it please your honors, I would just inform this honorable assembly, that I have discover'd an improvement, in the use of small armes, wherin a small arm, may be maid to discharge eight balls one after another, in eight, five, or three seconds of time."

He was speaking of the Belton Flintlock. The Continental Congress was interested, but decided the cost was too much for their budget.

So, YES, they knew of developments in firearms, knew of repeating rifles, knew of a type of firearm that later became the machine gun, knew of revolvers, multi shot rifles, and even air guns.

Need more examples, let me know.





Yet those weren't the arms that most people owned. As you pointed out, even the government couldn't afford them. And certainly the accuracy of those weapons are nothing like they are today.

And no, I am not a gun hater. I own a couple guns myself, as well as a large collection of swords and knives. I don't, however, think ordinary citizens need to own military type weapons. I also think stronger background checks are needed, as some people should never have access to firearms


BrerRabbit - 11/19/2019 at 12:28 AM





quote:
What show were you watching to cause that kind of reaction?


The impeachment on CSPAN - I was yelling "Id rather be Russian than a Democrat!" and throwing down and declaring civil war on liberals.

[Edited on 11/19/2019 by BrerRabbit]


Jerry - 11/19/2019 at 01:13 AM

quote:
quote:
Here's the 2nd Amendment in full:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. (Caps so you know where the break is.)


Sweet! Since it doesn’t mention specific types of arms, then we can ban civilian ownership of many types of arms, and confiscate them.....you know, since the people will always have the right to purchase a firearm. And since the pro-gun crowd is all about losing rights, and upholding the 2nd amendment, then this should be ok with them.


You are quite right in saying it does not restrict what type or how many firearms you own. It also does not mention anything about being able to ban firearms, or restrict who can own them.


Jerry - 11/19/2019 at 01:37 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:

In the days of the Founding Fathers almost everyone would have possessed a firearm, and carried on them.



True, but what kind of firearms were they? Big difference between muzzleloading flintlock muskets and what is used to shoot up schools today.


2112, how did I know you would bring up that old line. You have obviously missed out on the lessons on historical firearms in previous threads.

Since you asked.

Cookson Rifle, a 9 shot repeating rifle (lever action) that was developed in the 1690's (that's 80 years before the Revolution) and one that the Continental Congress issued an order to John Cookson of Boston for 100 rifles to be used in the Revolutionary War. You can go to the NRA Museum and look at one of them on line.

There were the Loernzoni system pistols available for purchase, but they were made in small numbers.

How about actual revolvers. Stopler made, and sold, revolvers as early as 1597.

How about the Puckle Gun, commonly acknowledge as the earliest machine gun, used it the Revolution and first made in 1719.

Not to forget the Girindonii rifle, a 10 shot, revolving cylinder affair.
A Girandoni Rifle was magazine fed, fired 22 shots of .46 caliber lead balls in one minute, and, it was an air rifle.

The Ferguson Rifle wasn't multi shot, but it was one of the several breech loading firearms used by both sides.

The Kalthoff repeating musket, 16 shot.

In a letter to the Continental Congress, April 1777, Joseph Belton stated: "May it please your honors, I would just inform this honorable assembly, that I have discover'd an improvement, in the use of small armes, wherin a small arm, may be maid to discharge eight balls one after another, in eight, five, or three seconds of time."

He was speaking of the Belton Flintlock. The Continental Congress was interested, but decided the cost was too much for their budget.

So, YES, they knew of developments in firearms, knew of repeating rifles, knew of a type of firearm that later became the machine gun, knew of revolvers, multi shot rifles, and even air guns.

Need more examples, let me know.





Yet those weren't the arms that most people owned. As you pointed out, even the government couldn't afford them. And certainly the accuracy of those weapons are nothing like they are today.

And no, I am not a gun hater. I own a couple guns myself, as well as a large collection of swords and knives. I don't, however, think ordinary citizens need to own military type weapons. I also think stronger background checks are needed, as some people should never have access to firearms


Wrong again. Remember that the Continental Congress could not levy taxes and thus had to rely on donations from countries like France and selling bonds to fund it's actions, and had very little to do so. The individual colonies had to pay and equip their militias.
In 1781 Robert Morris started the office of Superintendent of Finance. He then took the debt of the war onto his shoulders and personally financed the war to the end. He died virtually penniless since all the "Continentals", money issued by the Congress, became worthless, thus the saying "Not worth a continental."

Individuals took on the tasks of purchasing needed arms and supplies that Congress could not purchase so the weapons I listed earlier were mainly owned by private citizens who came to the need of the Army and Navy.
There was no distinction between military and civilian firearms, except in the English side of the war.

BTW, you do know that the majority of military firearms are derivatives of firearms developed for civilian use?



Stephen - 11/19/2019 at 02:57 AM

That’s interesting reading Jerry on the history of firearms, thx for sharing - you’re a real scholar bro! But yes they’ve been around since the 1690s & before, & quickly grew into weapons of destruction, ie the Revolutionary War>the War of 1812>the Civil War>the intro of airplanes into warfare in WW I..... the present - great post at 4:51 today btw

The last sentence of 2112’s post at 6:31 has been said millions of times before & will be in the future - guns and people are like oil & water, a bad mix - & they’re stuck w/each other


Jerry - 11/19/2019 at 03:04 AM

quote:
quote:
It also does not mention anything about being able to ban firearms, or restrict who can own them.


Which is irrelevant to whether we are legally allowed to ban certain types of firearms.


Think about what it would take to get it into the Constitution to allow that.


Jerry - 11/19/2019 at 03:09 AM

quote:
That’s interesting reading Jerry on the history of firearms, thx for sharing - you’re a real scholar bro! But yes they’ve been around since the 1690s & before, & quickly grew into weapons of destruction, ie the Revolutionary War>the War of 1812>the Civil War>the intro of airplanes into warfare in WW I..... the present - great post at 4:51 today btw

The last sentence of 2112’s post at 6:31 has been said millions of times before & will be in the future - guns and people are like oil & water, a bad mix - & they’re stuck w/each other


Just about like everything else that has been invented, military derivatives have fallen in behind.
Boats, spears, knives, rocks, clubs, guns, planes, all had use for the individual, then developed into a military weapon.


adhill58 - 11/19/2019 at 02:12 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
It also does not mention anything about being able to ban firearms, or restrict who can own them.


Which is irrelevant to whether we are legally allowed to ban certain types of firearms.


Think about what it would take to get it into the Constitution to allow that.



Nothing needs to happen/change with the Constitution in order to ban any type of firearm. Assault weapons were already banned at one point. We just need to do it again and make it permanent. (My opinion, obviously.)

There is no possible explanation that I will buy into for why a civilian needs an AR-15 or similar weapon. Period. My brother was just telling me that his friend has one (AR-15) in which he has over $3,000 wrapped up that he uses for hunting deer. I told him his buddy sounds like a real d-bag.

If somebody wants to play with military-style weapons, they need to sign up for the military.


gina - 11/19/2019 at 10:02 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
https://youtu.be/JyOcvMB-cvk

Another minor who is also a Student. So sad.

But it's NOT a Mental Heath issue...


You have made this point endlessly. What are the mental health solutions that you or your right-wing heroes have ready to go that will do anything to fix this epidemic?


What do I think?

Horrific parenting


The boys Mother had reportedly been battered by the Father, with him whe was no longer living. She had filed for custody of the child and the Father died (not sure if by suicide). The child seems to be yet another one who cannot handle the stress of his life and sought a way out.


BrerRabbit - 11/19/2019 at 10:37 PM

So what - he is an @sswipe who shot a bunch of people, who cares about his life? Lots of people go through trauma and don't have to start shooting up the place. Example, we have tons of Vietnamese refugees here, generations of trauma and horror so bad you could never imagine it, they are functioning just fine, producive citizens
So enough with the wahwah let's understand the poor baby crap.

[Edited on 11/20/2019 by BrerRabbit]


Jerry - 11/22/2019 at 03:38 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
It also does not mention anything about being able to ban firearms, or restrict who can own them.


Which is irrelevant to whether we are legally allowed to ban certain types of firearms.


Think about what it would take to get it into the Constitution to allow that.



Nothing needs to happen/change with the Constitution in order to ban any type of firearm. Assault weapons were already banned at one point. We just need to do it again and make it permanent. (My opinion, obviously.)

There is no possible explanation that I will buy into for why a civilian needs an AR-15 or similar weapon. Period. My brother was just telling me that his friend has one (AR-15) in which he has over $3,000 wrapped up that he uses for hunting deer. I told him his buddy sounds like a real d-bag.

If somebody wants to play with military-style weapons, they need to sign up for the military.



The AR-15 is not a military weapon. It would never withstand a day of combat use.

You must also be anti-hunting?


Jerry - 11/22/2019 at 03:40 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
https://youtu.be/JyOcvMB-cvk

Another minor who is also a Student. So sad.

But it's NOT a Mental Heath issue...


You have made this point endlessly. What are the mental health solutions that you or your right-wing heroes have ready to go that will do anything to fix this epidemic?


What do I think?

Horrific parenting


The boys Mother had reportedly been battered by the Father, with him whe was no longer living. She had filed for custody of the child and the Father died (not sure if by suicide). The child seems to be yet another one who cannot handle the stress of his life and sought a way out.




Why then did he shoot other students? Were they part of the abuse? Did they harm him in any way?


Stephen - 11/22/2019 at 04:09 AM

They’re questions there’s no answers to - the kid couldn’t take any more, snapped & got a gun in his hand

In the face of tragedy it was a good turn indeed by the Phila Eagles to host the conclusion of last week’s high school football game that was cut tragically short by a gunfight that left a 10 year old boy in critical condition

A damper was put on the Eagles’ fine gesture when awhile later it was announced that the boy had passed away - a further damper on an already-sad occasion - they finished the game, the Eagles were there for encouragement & the public wasn’t invited

No apparent follow up on the Fresno incident, the creeps that shot up a backyard barbecue leaving 4 dead others injured, still on the loose apparently

Sorry for the blabbing, it’s 4 sure not like it’s a subject near & dear to my heart

[Edited on 11/22/2019 by Stephen]


Jerry - 11/23/2019 at 04:03 AM

quote:

Nothing needs to happen/change with the Constitution in order to ban any type of firearm. Assault weapons were already banned at one point. We just need to do it again and make it permanent. (My opinion, obviously.)

There is no possible explanation that I will buy into for why a civilian needs an AR-15 or similar weapon. Period. My brother was just telling me that his friend has one (AR-15) in which he has over $3,000 wrapped up that he uses for hunting deer. I told him his buddy sounds like a real d-bag.


Agreed 100%.


Well, it's your opinion, but if I were you, I wouldn't want adhill58 brothers' buddy know you think of him as a d-bag. He might not like it.


BrerRabbit - 11/23/2019 at 05:28 AM

quote:
. . .if I were you, I wouldn't want adhill58 brothers' buddy know you think of him as a d-bag. He might not like it.


That's right, don't ever call someone with a gun a d-bag. Especially if he really is a d-bag. You just never know who the responsible gun owners are. Then again an unarmed d-bag can hurt you lots of ways too. So best to not call anyone a d-bag until you are certain they aren't a d-bag, whether they are armed or not.




Jerry - 11/23/2019 at 02:43 PM

quote:
quote:
but if I were you, I wouldn't want adhill58 brothers' buddy know you think of him as a d-bag. He might not like it.


Point?


Read post above yours.


BrerRabbit - 11/23/2019 at 06:10 PM

quote:
People who want to murder someone for calling them a d-bag, are the exact people who should be on a federal no-buy list,


What if they really are d-bags? There isn't anything in the Constitution about rights for d-bags.


Jerry - 11/24/2019 at 01:57 AM

quote:
quote:
Read post above yours.


People who want to murder someone for calling them a d-bag, are the exact people who should be on a federal no-buy list, and are the precise reason why there should be merit-based set of checks and requirements to pass before obtaining a permit to purchase. Anyone too irritated to take these few extra steps, are also the exact types that clearly don't have a healthy temperament, and should be on a no-buy list as well.


fixed your spelling.

Why would someone want to murder you for calling them a d-bag? They might want to re-arrange your bodily profile, but why murder you.
Like Brer said, best not to call anybody a d-bag, weather they are armed or not.

See, you just have the wrong idea about gun owners if you automatically think gun owner=murderer.


Jerry - 11/25/2019 at 09:32 PM

quote:
quote:
They might want to re-arrange your bodily profile


These animals should be on a federal no-buy list.


Why? You were the one calling them a d-bag. Maybe you should be on the Federal no-talk list.


Stephen - 4/10/2020 at 10:59 PM

Know this thread isn’t everyone’s cup of tea
The murders of that Madison Wis couple, however, boggles the mind - right there w/Chuck Stuart, Catrina Costello.......

Married successful couple
Victims of a deliberate execution
The killer was their daughter’s boyfriend
Was captain of the football team - had participated in community youth-group volunteering - had also had a couple of significant scrapes w/the law

The couple was picked up by the kid & another kid, & taken to the arboretum - in a car the parents had loaned their daughter - she & her boyfriend had been living at her parents house - the parents had relocated them, & they were still living off her parents when this kind well-liked couple met a ghastly end

The kid later told his friend he was surprised she hadn’t met a quick end like her husband - she died at the hospital

The killer’s friend, who was in on it from the start & helped carry out the executions, Had No Criminal Record

The daughter? God only knows

Mickey Spillane couldn’t come up w/this stuff - beyond comprehension

Those two 18 year old kids who did this had to have known beforehand they’d be spending the rest of their lives behind bars if they went thru w/it

Post submitted as a glimpse into the human condition - the basest of all instincts, man or animal, slumbers in the human psyche

[Edited on 4/11/2020 by Stephen]


Stephen - 4/19/2020 at 09:22 PM

“It couldn’t have been a worse situation”
That’s how the situation was described after a bus was commandeered at rifle point today in Dallas - rifleman dead, 2 officers wounded

At Least 10 Dead In Nova Scotia
A well known wealthy dentist in Nova Scotia snapped - got dressed up in police clothing, grabbed a gun, hopped in his car - & went on a shooting binge b4 being arrested at a gas station - info is still evolving

So on this, the 25th anniversary of the OKC bombing, we know that there is a long way to go in minimizing horrific attacks - the Timothy McVeighs & worse are still out there

[Edited on 4/19/2020 by Stephen]


crazyjoe - 4/19/2020 at 09:51 PM

Well, unfortunately, the Coronavirus crisis with its seclusion, distance, fear, media attention etc, could lead to higher rates of folks with anxiety, emotionally and mentally distressed folks, many heavily armed................joe


Stephen - 4/20/2020 at 09:02 PM

It doesn’t get any prettier as details emerge - 18 dead, 16 crime locations - initially thought arrested, shooter dead
It just goes to show that anyone in any station in life, rich/poor etc, can become deranged/unhinged at any given time for whatever reason, & succumb to criminal insanity

[Edited on 4/20/2020 by Stephen]


Stephen - 4/25/2020 at 02:00 AM

It was an argument w/his girlfriend that made him snap, apparently
How an argument would spark a crime spree of that magnitude is beyond reason, but when she saw that he was morphing into a psychotic murderer, she managed to escape the house & hid out overnight in the woods
Emerged from woods at 6:30 a.m., called 911 & that’s when the gravity of the situation became known - that he was in police clothing driving around heavily armed in a car w/police markings
Her phone call likely saved some lives, authorities later said - yet it was still too late - 22 dead
Cree-py

[Edited on 4/25/2020 by Stephen]


gina - 4/27/2020 at 07:16 PM

quote:
Wow - didn't miss a beat there, not even a pause for breath - two seconds of bogus sentiment then straight into gun politics. Quickest I've ever seen that happen on a shooting thread, though of course gun politics is the only reason for these threads, so you aren't being singled out - this was just more honest and to the point - real fast some Charlie Brown teacher noise wawawaA wa wa waaa wa then boom "Mental health".

[Edited on 11/14/2019 by BrerRabbit]


Mass shootings is not a rational act unless you are in the military and are trained to kill on command then we are supposed to applaud. [That is what they want you to believe, they are wrong.]

Guns were not meant to be used for mass killings. Their purpose is self protection and preservation against a disturbed person or persons who want to disrupt peace, safety and security. God permits killing when done defensively that's it. Predatory murder like wars not allowed but if someone comes to your land to wage war on you, you may fight back to defend yourself, your home, your religion.





[Edited on 4/27/2020 by gina]


Stephen - 5/17/2020 at 01:56 PM

The murder of that elderly couple as they prayed at their son’s grave at a Delaware veterans cemetery turns the stomach

85 & 86 years old - had prayed at their son’s grave almost daily since his 2017 death, said another of their sons, his twin brother - his parents had been married 61 years

in a random attack as they were kneeling in prayer, some twisted section 8 wackjob, who should never have been out among people, snuck up behind them, & murdered them

It makes us realize that people are the same as vultures, predators, weasels -
post it realizing such atrocities cause little more than a ripple nowadays - the sick **** is also dead, what a godawful price had to be paid tho

Prayers on this Sunday morn

[Edited on 5/17/2020 by Stephen]


BrerRabbit - 5/17/2020 at 06:19 PM

Really sad, a passing sentiment - I am not allowing these things to get to me any more, or I will get so down and paralyzed.


piacere - 5/17/2020 at 09:49 PM

I was having a pretty good day until I read that.

I too cannot let it get to me.

When it does get to me I need an escape.

I try to leave things to God and His Sovereignty.

But sometimes I fail and question Him

Then I leave it alone.


pops42 - 5/17/2020 at 11:08 PM

Im sad to say, as times get tougher, this kind of thing will increase along with suicide.


Stephen - 5/17/2020 at 11:28 PM

Likely so, & what gets me is just the offhand indifference of it all - was referring to the non ripple in that vein also - never even heard about this until yesterday (it was last week) - stuff like this is now no big deal in the general media/in terms of general outrage etc

Sometimes writing about deviant behavior helps to understand it somewhat - not always tho

Agree that it’s depressing to read (good posts btw & thx), will try to be more circumspect when posting here



[Edited on 5/17/2020 by Stephen]


BrerRabbit - 5/18/2020 at 01:17 AM

Go ahead, post the worst.. My lack of empathy is scarier to me than the material.

What I appreciate about your posts is you have a heart, you give a damn and aren't using this stuff as springboard for second amendment arguments. The crocodile tears line or two saying how tragic then the immediate leap into gun bullsh!t,. Over it as of years ago.


piacere - 5/18/2020 at 02:21 AM

Your posts are always sincere Stephen.

You care about stuff.


BrerRabbit - 5/18/2020 at 07:14 PM

^ x2, sets a good example for us heartless bastids


piacere - 5/18/2020 at 09:31 PM

Damn man. I'll give ya skeptical, cynical, sarcastic, twisted, stubborn, combative and a myriad of other dysfunctional, emotional and highly questionable forms of underlying conditions... but heartless?


BrerRabbit - 5/18/2020 at 10:31 PM

Ok ok, maybe just a little raisin of a heart in there


BrerRabbit - 5/18/2020 at 10:47 PM


Stephen - 5/18/2020 at 10:51 PM

watta post piacere, yep that’s me wrapped up on a gurney, I mean in a nutshell
You got it Brer, raisins is one of my favorite foods - many say I’m hollow upstairs too, haha :nobodyhome:, lol
One more thing piacere b4 the return to tales of the macabre - how bummed out are people about no PawSox in their final year - seems a shame

[Edited on 5/18/2020 by Stephen]


piacere - 5/18/2020 at 11:13 PM

Yeah man, it's a drag. They're opening up McCoy Stadium to people who want to eat on the field, not sure the details. Saw many games there, saw Jim Rice, Fred Lynn, Wade Boggs...
It is a shame. I could get into the politics of it but what's the use? Yeah, used to be a really cheap night out and fun. Lots a bummed people around here.


Stephen - 5/18/2020 at 11:33 PM

Rick Lancellati? Unsure of last name but wasn’t he a career PawSox & might’ve held some of their records
Don’t like WooSox so well, if they’re playing bad they’ll become known as the Wusses


piacere - 5/19/2020 at 09:53 AM

Lancellotti. I vaguely remember him. Played everywhere. Made it to the bigs for a while (Boston) but ended up in P'tuckit.

Not sure about any records.


Stephen - 5/19/2020 at 03:46 PM

Looked him up - as you said not a career PawSox - played his last 2 years in Pawtucket after playing w/a host of teams - retired in 1991 holding the career minor league HR record, 276 (according to internet) - seem to recall both Paw & BoSox making a big deal of his retirement - his HR record still stands today, internet says

[Edited on 5/19/2020 by Stephen]


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