Thread: Epstein Dead - suicide or something else?

gina - 8/10/2019 at 08:04 PM

That's right Jeffrey Epstein, convicted perv died this morning in the Manhattan Correctional Center reportedly by hanging himself in his cell. This was the second time in a few weeks that he allegedly tried to kill himself. Questions remain was it really suicide or did someone else have a hand in it? Someone who did not want things coming out about himself and his dealings with Epstein over the years. There is quite a cast of possibles who would like their dirt kept from coming out, all very rich and powerful men.

The things we know are that the Manhattan Correctional Center is a hellhole. He reported it was full of rats, bugs etc. Many others have also said this over the years. With all the tax money spent on incarcerating people there, there must be a lot of graft going on for the place to not be cleaned up and at least be habitable.

We know Mr. Epstein was despondent about not being given bail, and possibly be put under house arrest. They said he was a flight risk. An ankle bracelet, tracking device could have been put on him as is done with other sex offenders who are releasesd and deemed to be high risk.

1- First anamoly - given the previous suicide attempt, why would he not have been placed on suicide watch? If he had been A former federal prison guard told us that the “suicide” is highly unusual because guards have to check every 15 minutes to ensure a prisoner is safe. As Will Chamberlain notes, CCTV and lights have to be on at all times to ensure that a prisoner does not try to kill himself. [from USA today]. There are discrepancies, some say he was on suicide watch, some say he wasn't, how difficult is it to find that out?

2 - Prior incarceration in Florida shows that he was getting along with other inmates and was not suicidal. he bought many things from the commissary. Since some of the clothing items were NOT in his size (Medium), he apparently either wanted to help out other prisoners and gain their approval/cooperation or he was threatened but found a way to negotiate and make his stay uneventful. Nobody beat the crap out of the rich kid on the bloc. -commissary-florida-2019-7

Timing is important in crimes. They usually happen in response to an actuating event. So what happened recently that could prompt someone to help initiate or create this event and make it look like he killed himself?

One big thing was the recent disclosure of Epstein's desire for transhumanism. He not only wanted to create a race of human beings with above average intelligence and include artificial intelligence to have them do what he wanted them to do. He was not alone in this venture. race-report

Wanted to develop a race of super human race with genetic engineering and artificial intelligence. Mr Epstein’s goal was to have 20 women at a time impregnated at his 33,000-sq-ft Zorro Ranch in a tiny town outside Santa Fe,” the Times said. Epstein’s field of study was labeled “transhumanism” but was an updated version of eugenics. Lawyer Alan Dershowitz, who defended Epstein in 2008 and has been named in a civil suit brought by Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre, told the Times he was appalled by the financier’s interest in genetic manipulation, given the Nazis’ use of eugenics in the 1930s. Everyone speculated about whether these scientists were more interested in his views or more interested in his money,” Dershowitz told the Times.

According to the paper, Epstein’s circle included the molecular engineer George Church; Murray Gell-Mann, who proposed the quark; the evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould; the neurologist and author Oliver Sacks; and the theoretical physicist Frank Wilczek.

On one occasion, Epstein held a lunch at Harvard’s Program for Evolutionary Dynamics, a program he had helped fund with a $6.5m donation. In 2011, he gave $20,000 to the Worldwide Transhumanist Association, a project that now operates as Humanity Plus.

Was this enough for someone or a group of people to want him assassinated? How much more is there?

gina - 8/10/2019 at 08:18 PM

There is the sleaze factor. Documented and reported on over the years. Who did it involve?

Firstly, our President. BUT, President Trump did part ways with Epstein 15 years ago. He reportedly had him thrown out of Mar a Lago after a report that Epstein abused a 15 year old girl. fery-Epstein-Mar-Lago-sexually-assaulted-underage-girl.html

Were there parties? Of course there were back in the days of Trump's bachelorhood. -footage-surfaces
Buffalo Bill cheerleaders party

Him and Epstein after a photoshoot for a magazine with 28 beautiful women. George George Houraney, who ran American Dream Enterprise, recalls organizing the event as part of a “calendar girl” competition for Trump. At the time he apparently did not know of all the things which came out later regarding Mr. Epstein. -girls-mar-a-lago/

With all that has come out, it has been 15 years since Trump had anything to do with Epstein, and even then that was just when he was a real estate mogul socializing as others in those high profile businesses do.

UPDATE: 8-15-19
Yes there is a Trump connection to Ms. Giuffre's family. He gave Mr. Roberts a job as a maintenance man at Mar-A-Lago. The man did a great job and when he transferred to Colorado was given a glowing reference from Trump on his work performance.

He had hired Giuffre’s Father as a maintenance man in 2003. Mr. Roberts relocated to Colorado but received an excellent reference from Trump. He was a good worker. Jeffrey-Epsteins-sex-slave-Mar-Lago.html

THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE. MS. GIUFFRE SAYS SHE WAS WEARING HER MAR-A-LAGO UNIFORM. She worked as a towel girl there in 1999. [Rolling Stone article] -epstein-arrest-856874/ e-explosive-Prince-Andrew-sex-slave-drama-telling-truth.html

This is from January 3, 2015. It is more about Prince Andrew but still.
Miss Roberts says she had no idea of the risks she was running when she leapt at an invitation from Ghislaine to work for Epstein. ‘I was wearing my sexy white Mar-A- Lago uniform – a white miniskirt and a skintight white polo top – and studying an anatomy book when I was approached by this striking woman in her mid-40s with a very proper British accent – Ghislaine,’ Miss Roberts told The Mail on Sunday.
‘She noticed what I was reading and I told her I wanted to become a masseuse and she said she worked for a very wealthy gentleman called Jeffrey Epstein who was looking for a travelling masseuse and I’d get training and be paid large amounts of money.’

[Edited on 8/15/2019 by gina]

[Edited on 8/16/2019 by gina]

gina - 8/10/2019 at 08:25 PM

Bill Clinton

Bill Clinton disclosed that he had visited Epstein on business matters four times. Flight manifests show 26 times with secret service agents. lawyer/ -multiple-ryan-saavedra clinton-prince-andrew-case-spotlight-famous-friends nal-instagram-account-to-blame-hillary-clinton-for-epstein-suicide/

Should we assume or conclude that just because he had business talks/dealings with Epstein that he could have wanted him silenced? Of course not, I think Bill Clinton has been probed over everything that has ever come up over the course of time. It is only newsworthy because he is a high profile person.


Bill Clinton's spokesman Angel Urena said Bill admits having been on Epstein's plane but he used the plane to go to speeches and meetings for the Clinton Foundation work. He denies being on the island Epstein has. Epstein has 3 planes, a 747, a Cessna 420, and a helicopter. Seems quite plausible given the security detail that Bill needs to travel around, he would like to have a private plane when necessary. It also seems plausible that his dealings with Epstein were perhaps for insights on financial investment matters, and they admit that Epstein went to Africa with him and others to see some of the work of the Clinton Foundation. I think Bill is in the clear on this one. [I dunno about the Chronicles team, but Bill himself doesn't seem involved]....

but Ms. Maxwell was invited to Chelsea Clinton's wedding. -epstein-arrest-856874/

[Edited on 8/16/2019 by gina]

gina - 8/10/2019 at 08:27 PM

Who else? Prince Andrew - well that's a sticky wicket to say the least. The royals having dealings with Epstein, seems way below royal protocol, but they are good at keeping things under wraps. Remember that nurse who was tricked by someone on the phone giving details about Kate Middleton's first pregnancy condition while she was in the hospital? She was reported to become extremely depressed and hung herself.....

UPDATE 8-15-19
That wicket is much more sticky now.

For all the denials from Buckingham Palace, as they say one picture is worth a thousand words. -questions-remain-for-prince-andrew

In 2000, the prince is reported to have shared a holiday with Epstein on his yacht in Thailand. Other encounters between the two men are believed to have taken place at the Queen’s Norfolk estate and an exclusive dinner in St Tropez. The pair were most recently pictured walking together in New York’s Central Park in 2011, shortly after Epstein, by then a registered sex offender, was released from jail.

photo of Prince Andrew and Ms. Giuffre at Ms. Maxwells townhouse in London. ts-ghislaine-maxwell-jeffrey-epstein e-explosive-Prince-Andrew-sex-slave-drama-telling-truth.html

[Edited on 8/15/2019 by gina]

gina - 8/10/2019 at 08:30 PM

Who else? Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's named turned up.

Expired Saudi passport from 1980. FBI agents found “piles of cash,” dozens of diamonds and an expired foreign passport in Jeffrey Epstein’s safe when they raided his Manhattan mansion last week, prosecutors revealed Monday.

The passport was issued in the 1980s and gave a residence of Saudi Arabia, Assistant U.S. Attorney Alex Rossmiller said. It was not issued under Epstein’s name but did have what appeared to be a photo of him. Epstein also owns a private island in the Caribbean and a lavish estate in Palm Beach, a fleet of cars and a private jet that has hosted former President Bill Clinton, actor Kevin Spacey, Prince Andrew, and lawyer Alan Dershowitz. iled-at-bail-hearing

Behind his desk sat framed photos of powerful friends that Epstein, a Coney Island native and college dropout, had collected: Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Steve Bannon and an arm-in-arm portrait with his latest prize, Mohammed bin Salman, the Saudi crown prince. iding-in-plain-sight-1.3955218
A wall of the study was covered with photographs of famous people, including Woody Allen, and another that Mr. Epstein pointed out was of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia.

The royals were considering a replacement for MBS because of the Kashoggi scandal. mmad-bin-salman/250888/
In a 60 Minutes interview MBS said that “only death” could stop him from ruling Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has said that "only death" will stop him from ruling the kingdom in a wide-ranging interview on the eve of his first official visit to the United States. g-180319051856128.html

UPDATE 8-18-19

MBS has not spoken about the matter and only HE knows what his dealings with Epstein were about. I would like to think it was about financial [investment management]. There has been enough scandal regarding the Prince and dissenting journalists. There are several journalists whose names have come up recently, and unfortunately one of them sites Mr. Qhatani as supervising her torture in a Saudi prison. Qhatani was also allegedly linked with being involved in the murder of Jamal Kashoggi. Qhatani is from the intelligence realm in the kingdom.

[Edited on 8/18/2019 by gina]

gina - 8/10/2019 at 08:33 PM

There are many high profile people who could be hurt by whatever could come out during a trial of Jeffrey Epstein. Was he silenced to prevent that or did he just get despondent at the prospect of 45 years in jail and no pardon from Trump to get out?

If there was a conspiracy and murder, will we ever know the truth?

Is is all just as they tell us it was? Could be, but a man with all that money could buy a judge, jury and still have plenty left over. Mr. Epstein's way or operating seemed to be "if you cooperate you will be rewarded, if you do not, you will be dealt with", so why would he give up now and kill himself? Seems uncharacteristic of a wealthy narcissist who up until this point, has gotten whatever he wanted.

PhotoRon286 - 8/10/2019 at 09:31 PM


Is is all just as they tell us it was? Could be, but a man with all that money could buy a judge, jury and still have plenty left over. Mr. Epstein's way or operating seemed to be "if you cooperate you will be rewarded, if you do not, you will be dealt with", so why would he give up now and kill himself? Seems uncharacteristic of a wealthy narcissist who up until this point, has gotten whatever he wanted.

Sounds just like your illegitimate president.

No wonder they were buddies.

cyclone88 - 8/10/2019 at 10:46 PM

If there ever was fodder for conspiracy theories, this is certainly it. The lowest form of criminal (child abuser/trafficker) w/friends in high places taken off suicide watch despite previous suicide attempt 3 weeks ago is found hanged. Suicide? Murder made to look like suicide? Never mind that it was a psychologist (not a psychiatrist) who made the decision to take him off suicide watch - a prison staffer w/no medical degree making that call. Or, at 66, Epstein could've decided life w/o his lavish comforts was already over; why not make it official.

The only sticking point for conspiracy theorists is that depraved behavior isn't shocking, vigorously prosecuted or, in the case of Roy Moore, even an obstacle for presidential endorsement.

[Edited on 8/11/2019 by cyclone88]

BrerRabbit - 8/11/2019 at 04:54 PM

The harder they come
The harder they fall
One and all

pops42 - 8/11/2019 at 05:54 PM

He did the crime, could not do the time, went out like the chomo, punk, he is. **** him.

BrerRabbit - 8/11/2019 at 07:22 PM

Oh well too bad we'll never get to find out who was at Epstein's Eyes Wide Shut satanic sex parties.

MartinD28 - 8/11/2019 at 07:33 PM

On conspiracy theories re: Epstein. Leave it up to the King Of The Birthers to chime in. racy-theory-claiming-clinton-connection-n1041146

BrerRabbit - 8/11/2019 at 08:31 PM

Looks like Central Hive is doing the Trumble-bee dance to signal to drones that the best defense is a good offense

[Edited on 8/11/2019 by BrerRabbit]

pops42 - 8/11/2019 at 09:13 PM

On conspiracy theories re: Epstein. Leave it up to the King Of The Birthers to chime in. racy-theory-claiming-clinton-connection-n1041146
Behaving like someone with something to hide..........again.

BrerRabbit - 8/11/2019 at 09:40 PM

LOL nobody was even looking at him or suggesting anything then duhhhhh here come the tweets. I mean really, DUUuuuHHhhh. How can intelligent conservatives stomach this guy representing them? Starting to make me think that most conservatives are dumb if they condone and encourage this bs. Dumb is still better than the alternatives of terminal apathy or deliberate subversion. Am hearing some sensible conservative backlash against the Moron King, but not enough. A rebel moderate Republican with a spine and half a brain could do very well right now. Certainly not hearing any complaints from cons here - this is Deep Hive Country.

On second thought, not DUUUHHHH, it is DAAAAHHH

[Edited on 8/11/2019 by BrerRabbit]

porkchopbob - 8/12/2019 at 07:58 PM ened-1837175949

Bhawk - 8/13/2019 at 04:59 PM

How can intelligent conservatives stomach this guy representing them?

Because their hatred of liberals trumps all.

Pun intended.

MarkRamsey - 8/14/2019 at 01:12 AM

Conspiracy theories: Sophistication for the dimwitted.

StratDal - 8/15/2019 at 12:17 AM

Well if it worked for Goring...

rmack - 8/15/2019 at 07:13 AM

Conspiracy theories: Sophistication for the dimwitted.

Dismissing out of hand and ridiculing the notion that some of the richest and most powerful people in the world might conspire to bump off someone who possibly could have vast amounts of incriminating and ruinous evidence: Critical thinking for the dimwitted.

porkchopbob - 8/15/2019 at 02:07 PM

Conspiracy theories: Sophistication for the dimwitted.

Dismissing out of hand and ridiculing the notion that some of the richest and most powerful people in the world might conspire to bump off someone who possibly could have vast amounts of incriminating and ruinous evidence: Critical thinking for the dimwitted.

OR a rich old pervert facing the rest of his life in prison, who already tried to commit suicide, more likely probably successfully committed suicide while the guards were asleep.

Either that, or Elvis did it.

BrerRabbit - 8/15/2019 at 05:33 PM

Who cares. He is done, and that's a good thing. His pals are gonna burn. We all know exactly who they are - no big mystery.

gina - 8/15/2019 at 09:55 PM

There is so much wrong with ALL of what has happened. It has been overwhelming. But I think the culprit in this case is not necessarily a hireling of any of the BIG people Epstein did business (sleazy or financial) with. More on that shortly.

ALAN DERSHOWITZ - Attorney for Jeffrey Epstein

FIRST - We know Ms. Virginia Roberts Giuffre endured things most people cannot even imagine. There will be a movie on this one. BUT, there are some questions that need answers.

She accused Alan Deshowitz of abusing her. Dershowitz was/is Epstein's attorney. She claimed she was forced to have sex with him in a limo in Boston, on an airplane, and somewhere else. He completely refuted that and there were documents released to support his rebuke. e-lied-about-sex-with-me/

In the email, in 2011, Giuffre told the Mail on Sunday reporter, Sharon Churcher, she was racing to meet a deadline for a draft of what she would later describe as a “fictionalized account” of what happened to her.

“Just wondering if you have any information on you from when you and I were doing interviews about the J.E. story,” Giuffre wrote Churcher.

“I wanted to put the names of some of the **** s, oops, I meant to say, pedo’s, that J.E. sent me to. With everything going on, my brain feels like mush and it would be a great deal of help!” Giuffre added.

The emails in the court file shows Churcher responded: “Don’t forget Alan Dershowitz… J.E.’s buddy and lawyer…good name for your pitch as he repped Claus von Bulow and a movie was made about that case… title was Reversal of Fortune. We all suspect Alan is a pedo and tho no proof of that, you probably met him when he was hanging out with JE.”

Giuffre’s reply contained no reference to Dershowitz, just a simple, “Thanks again Shazza, I’m bringing down the house with this book!!”
“Don’t forget Alan Dershowitz.”
— Journalist Sharon Churcher

Churcher, who no longer works at the Mail on Sunday, declined to comment.
Dershowitz noted that when Giuffre finished her manuscript, there was no mention of sex with him—although Giuffre did write that Dershowitz had a taste for young, beautiful women and that he once walked into a room where Epstein had just molested her.

Court papers filed by Giuffre’s legal team say she began writing the manuscript on the advice of her mental-health counselor as a way to work through her trauma. She explored the idea of selling it but ultimately decided not to publish it, they said.

To Dershowitz, desperately trying to rescue his reputation as the Epstein scandal continues to intensify, the absence of allegations even in what Giuffre has described as fiction amounts to a smoking gun.
“If she had sex with me, I’d be highlighted,” he said.

“This is completely exculpatory and completely consistent with what I’ve been saying,” Dershowitz said. “She made it up when she met her lawyers and heard there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.”
Asked about Dershowitz’s claim that the email shows Giuffre had failed to accuse him of sexual misconduct before she filed her lawsuit, Boies’ firm sent a statement from his co-counsel, Sigrid McCawley, that did not directly address the issue.

“The denials of those accused of participating in Jeffrey Epstein’s horrific sex trafficking operation are predictable.”

— Sigrid McCawley, lawyer for Epstein accuser -boies-again-and-again/2019/08/13/925bcb60-b798-11e9-a091-6a96e67d9cce_stor y.html?noredirect=on

“Don’t forget Alan Dershowitz . . . JE’s buddy and lawyer,” Churcher writes to Giuffre in an apparent reference to Jeffrey Epstein’s initials. “Good name for your pitch as he repped Claus von Bulow and a movie was made about that case . . . title was Reversal of Fortune. We all suspect Alan is a pedo and tho no proof of that, you probably met him when he was hanging put [sic] w JE.”

REMARKS: The Reporter is telling Ms. Giuffre "you probably met him when he was hanging out with J.E.", meaning that Ms. Roberts never even told Ms. Churcher that she met Dershowitz, much less had sex with him 3 different times and locations. Dershowitz also proved that certain emails released by the court documents show that his name was not brought up until Ms. Giuffre met with HER lawyers, and that her lawyers told her there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The email SHOWS HE WAS NOT NAMED UNTIL AFTER SHE MET WITH HER LAWYERS (the date proves it).

So no bada bing, bada boom for Dershowitz.

gina - 8/15/2019 at 10:08 PM

Epstein was a financial consultant. He only handled BIG accounts, those who had 1 Billion with a "B" to invest. He did not spend all his time having sex. He managed the accounts himself and was reported to be on the phone for 10 hours a day getting information and doing deals. He was very smart to be able to do all this. But the seamier side is worse than we have been shown so far.

Aside from the narcississtic desire to create a race started with his sperm, the other things he wanted to do were create sex slaves, not just like what a pimp does, no, this goes beyond that.

The main lady in question was named Virginia Roberts. During her time with Epstein she was sent to Thailand to learn how the Asian ladies do massage and sex acts. It was there she met Mr. Giuffre and married him, which is why there are more than one name in articles relating to her.

This is how she met him and what life was like for her. e-explosive-Prince-Andrew-sex-slave-drama-telling-truth.html

He truly wanted to enslave the women. Palm Beach police recovered receipts from Epstein’s trash that showed he ordered books on Amazon about sadomasochism and how to use sex slaves. A photograph of an Amazon receipt under Epstein’s name showed several titles, including SM 101: A Realistic Introduction, A Workbook for Erotic Slaves and Their Owners, and SlaveCraft: Roadmaps for Erotic Servitude.

Everyone who worked for Epstein were loyal servants to him.

"Around the time Epstein was under investigation in Florida in 2005, Maxwell’s assistant Adriana Ross and a man removed three computers from the Palm Beach residence, a former house manager testified. When police later turned up at the home, the computers—which allegedly contained nude pictures of underage girls—were gone." rey-epstein-documents

With titles like “SlaveCraft: Roadmaps for Erotic Servitude – Principles, Skills and Tools” and “Training With Miss Abernathy: A Workbook for Erotic Slaves and Their Owners,” the evidence appeared as part of a lawsuit by Virginia Giuffre against alleged Epstein accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell.

“Ghislaine Maxwell maintained a contact list in an approximately 100-page-long hard copy, which was openly available to other house employees,” Giuffre’s attorney wrote in a brief. “It consisted primarily of telephone numbers, addresses, or email addresses for various personal friends, associates, employees, or personal or business connections of Epstein or [Maxwell].”

Before being fired, Epstein’s Palm Beach butler Alfredo Rodriguez printed his copy of the book to hand over the FBI, according to the brief.

“Additionally, and importantly, there are several sections entitled ‘Massage’ alongside a geographical designation with names of females and corresponding telephone numbers,” the brief states, redacting some of the names contained inside. dence/

gina - 8/15/2019 at 10:17 PM

GHISLAINE MAXWELL - Epstein's right hand has been very quiet about all these things that have come about lately. Some have said they cannot find her. She was in Massachusetts, USA but has reportedly left Scott Borgerson and was seen TODAY in Universal City, Los Angeles, California.

Her job as specified by many was to recruit women to provide massage etc. services for Epstein. She helped mentor the girls and kept Epstein happy also accompanying him to social gatherings, taking care of the little details.

Maxwell is married to Scott Borgerson. He is ANOTHER BIG PERSON. CEO of a tech company and he is on the COUNCIL FOR FOREIGN RELATIONS. Scott-Borgerson-37-away-wife-two-young-kids.html

• Ghislaine Maxwell's boyfriend Scott Borgerson abandoned his wife and children for Jeffrey Epstein's suspected madam, has learned exclusively
• Borgerson, 43, the CEO of a tech company, left his wife, Rebecca, for the 57-year-old five years ago, a source close to the family said
• 'How could you throw all that away, those wonderful children and wife, for a woman who is 14 years older than him and allegedly has a role in this whole Epstein business,' the source said
• Borgerson, who married Rebecca in Palm Beach, Florida, in May 2001, once allegedly threatened to her: 'Don't make me beat you in front of the children'
• Borgerson is believed to have met Maxwell through speaking engagements connected to ocean preservation, a subject on which they share a passion
• They both spoke at the Arctic Circle Assembly in Reykjavik in 2014
• Maxwell had been living with Borgerson at his $3m oceanfront mansion in Manchester-by-the-Sea for the past three years, revealed

REMARKS: She has her own problems to resolve. It was said that Epstein was her soulmate, but she married someone else, and the someone else does not seem like a kind, gentle person.

UPDATE: 8-15-19
She was seen in Los Angeles today at In N Out Burger, Universal City, Los Angeles. She reportedly left Borgeson about a month ago when all this stuff started happening with Epstein going to prison. otted-at-in-n-out-burger-in-first-photos-since-his-death/

While spotted at the Burger joint, she was reading a book, titled The Book of Honor: The Secret Lives and Deaths of CIA Operatives. 147962.html

Remark: Why would she be reading something like that? All I can say is oh whippin' post!

[Edited on 8/16/2019 by gina]

gina - 8/15/2019 at 10:46 PM m-kill-himself/
Epstein's bodyguard does not believe it was a suicide. Epstein's cellmate until one day before his handing was Nicholas Tartagliano, a former Westchester County Cop.

8-14-19 Epstein's lawyers said they were told Tartagliano roughed Epstein up recently. [which could be why Tartagliano was transferred to another cell]. Remember Epstein was found with bruises on his neck? Tartagliano was transferred to a cell near Epstein and denied hearing anything on the night of the murder when others say they heard shrieks and screams. artaglione-roughed-him-up/

WHO IS NICHOLAS TARTAGLIANO? in-quadruple-homicide/
Tartaglione 3-21-19

The U.S. Attorney’s Office in Manhattan confirmed it will demand former officer Nicholas charged with killing Martin Luna, Urbano Santiago, Miguel Luna and Hector Gutierrez when a drug money transaction went bad, be put to death if found guilty.

The feds claim Tartaglione and Rockland County resident Joseph Biggs lured Martin Luna to the Likquid Lounge in Chester, NY, to find stolen cocaine money and ended up killing Luna and the other three men, whom he brought for protection. e-during-bad-coke-deal/
6-1-17 coke deal gone bad – a cop shoots himself in front of FBI agents. Manhattan federal prosecutors charged Rockland County resident Joseph Biggs in connection with four murders that he allegedly committed with Nicholas Tartaglione, a former Westchester cop who is accused of burying the men on his Otisville property. White Plains Judge Judith McCarthy detained Biggs at the request of Manhattan US prosecutor Maurene Comey, the daughter of recently ousted FBI head James Comey, who argued that Biggs is too dangerous to be freed.
“The conduct here is heinous and gruesome,” Comey told the Judge.

Comey said Biggs and Tartaglione lured Martin Luna to the Likquid Lounge in Chester, NY, under false pretenses “to track down a drug debt.”

Because Luna didn’t know what to expect, he brought friends and family with him — and they got whacked, too, Comey said.

After killing Luna, Biggs and Tartaglione “executed the others with a bullet to the back of the head purely because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time,” Comey told the judge.

Tartaglione, who worked as a cop in Briarcliff Manor and Mount Vernon, was first busted in “gangland-style” slay in December, which allegedly took the lives of Luna, Urbano Santiago, Miguel Luna and Hector Gutierrez.
The bodies of four men were later discovered buried on Tartaglione’s Otisville property.

The FBI was on to Biggs as recently as March, but the investigation was put on hold after a third alleged accomplice — ex-NYPD cop Gerard Benderoth — committed suicide just as FBI agents were closing in on him, sources told The Post.

Benderoth, 48 — nicknamed “White Rhino” from his days as a strongman competitor — shot himself in March when the FBI pulled him over on a quiet suburban road in Rockland County.

Biggs also appears to have participated in professional bodybuilding contests, according to photos he has posted on Facebook.

The security guard’s lawyer said there is no evidence that Biggs was involved “in the actual execution or shooting in this case.”

“We knew these charges were coming but Mr. Biggs hasn’t driven away or walked away,” lawyer David Goldstein said. “He has reiterated over and over to me how he is not guilty.”

Biggs, who shook his head in shock when the judge ordered him detained, is due back in court on June 7th, along with Tartaglione.

White Plains Judge Judith McCarthy detained Biggs at the request of Manhattan US prosecutor Maurene Comey, the daughter of recently ousted FBI head James Comey, who argued that Biggs is too dangerous to be freed. epsteins-neck-deepening-questions-around-his-death/ar-AAFPxjP?li=BBnb7Kz

Jonathan L. Arden, president of the National Association of Medical Examiners, said a hyoid can be broken in many circumstances but is more commonly associated with homicidal strangulation than suicidal hanging.
Arden, who was not involved in the Epstein autopsy, said that in general, a finding of a broken hyoid requires pathologists to conduct more extensive investigation. That investigation can include analysis of the location of the noose, how narrow the noose is, and if the body experienced any substantial drop in the course of the hanging.

[Edited on 8/15/2019 by gina]

[Edited on 8/15/2019 by gina]

gina - 8/15/2019 at 11:04 PM

Can you now see why it most probably was not a suicide? The DEA, FBI, a pissed off cop, 4 dead bodies they cannot find, and this is the guy they put in the cell with Epstein?

Epstein tells his lawyer that this cellmate did whatever to him, and he had marks on his neck, gets accused of trying to commit suicide and then shortly thereafter ends up dead, with broken bones found in his neck after others on the cellblock heard shrieking and screaming, which Tartagliano denies hearing.

Did Tartagliano get a deal from the feds for offing Epstein, so that 2 Presidents (Trump and Clinton) would be protected, as well as the Royal Family Prince Andrew, the Saudis who have billion dollar arms deals with the US, and all the others, including Elyon Musk etc. etc. ?

Did Tartagliano just hate pedophiles and do it on that basis?

Were other professionals brought in while the guards were sleeping?

Were the guards drugged in their coffee or other beverages so that they would not be awake during the assassination?

Did the Warden get a golden parachute pension, was he in on it? He did not get fired, just got transferred to another facility.

The Shrink cannot be held accountable, they cover ALL the patients at the Manhattan Facility and the Brooklyn Facility that is more than 500 prisoners to one psychiatrist. It was reported that sometimes his contact with the prisoners was limited to just saying hello thru the food slot to make sure they were still alive. Bill the state for services.

This is much more than just some horny men having sex with under age girls.

[Edited on 8/15/2019 by gina]

LUKE - 8/15/2019 at 11:33 PM

Good info Gina.There's a picture of Clinton dressed in drag at the island out there.LMAO!Surprised most round here ain't puttin the blame on the Trumpster.

gina - 8/16/2019 at 12:33 AM

The cast of his friends, business associates is huge.

He has a brother who his estate could go to. t-brother-Jeffreys-near-billion-dollar-estate-payout-victim-lawsuits.html?n s_mchannel=rss&ito=1490&ns_campaign=1490

His fixer Sarah Kellen should be looked into. She kept his little black book. xer-socializing-convicted-pedophile-2012.html

Accomplices e-sarah-kellen-nadia-marcinkova-adriana-ross-and-lesley-groff

gina - 8/16/2019 at 12:35 AM

How he viewed himself in his own words.

"He told the New York Post in 2011, “I’m not a sexual predator, I’m an ‘offender.’ It’s the difference between a murderer and a person who steals a bagel.”

Later, he explained to a publicist that he had sex with "with 'tweens and teens," according to the New York Times, but rejected the media characterization of him as a "pedophile" who lusted after children.

And when asked to describe the sex acts that landed him in jail a decade ago, he referred to them as "erotic massages," people who know him say. He is said to believe his situation is similar to the mess Robert Kraft, the owner of the New England Patriots, found himself in when he was charged earlier this year for soliciting prostitution in a day spa, FOX Business has learned.

If there were a difference, it was mainly about the location. Kraft paid for sex at a seedy massage parlor in a Florida strip mall; the girls in Epstein's case came to his palatial home in Palm Beach, Florida. 45.html

BrerRabbit - 8/16/2019 at 04:15 AM

More noise feeding the beast.

gina - 8/18/2019 at 08:35 PM

You are right about THE BEAST. More digging by reporters uncover practices and loyalties linked to the dark side.

8-17-19 Emily Shugerman luc-brunel-drugged-raped-them

8-17-19 tein-models-sexual-assault

8-18-19 Dana Kennedy more-skeletons-in-her-family-closet-than-a-house-of-horrors

"She is the youngest child of the notorious and disgraced British media mogul Robert Maxwell, rumored after his mysterious death in 1991 to have been an Israeli spy.

We also looked at the family tree of her other brother-in-law, an American astrophysicist whose genius rocket scientist father Frank Malina at the Jet Propulsion Lab in California pioneered what would become NASA before he fled to France with J. Edgar Hoover's G-Men on his heels.

But France is still where Ghislaine Maxwell’s family history begins. Both she and her mother, the elegant and long-suffering Elisabeth Maxwell, were born here. And while some French officials have called for an investigation into Epstein’s activities in Paris, where he had an opulent apartment, Ghislaine’s French connection goes back decades in the south.

It also grew out of the horrors of Auschwitz, which wiped out Robert Maxwell’s parents and siblings and eventually inspired his French Protestant wife, Elisabeth, to become a renowned Holocaust scholar.

And it includes Ghislaine’s very interesting American in-laws who moved back and forth between Provence, the Dordogne and the United States. Their roots involved the pioneering, often reckless rocket scientists of the 1930s who were called the “Suicide Squad” for their risky work at the Jet Propulsion Lab. Among their circle: L. Ron Hubbard of Scientology fame; the Nobel Prize-winning physicist Richard Feynman; and Briton Aleister Crowley, known for black magic and a sex cult.

“They attach themselves to bizarre psychopaths like their father,” says a researcher who delved into the family years ago. “Ghislaine wasn’t the only sister to hook up with a weird guy.”

The daddy issues—and the mysterious death issues—began with Robert Maxwell, born into poverty as Ján Ludvík Hyman Binyamin Hoch in Czechoslovakia in 1923. He wanted a big family to recreate, in a way, the siblings he lost to the Nazis, and he very much wanted riches and fame. He achieved all of it, including a seat in the British Parliament. But two of his children died young and greed overtook his ambition.

When Robert Maxwell mysteriously disappeared from his yacht, the Lady Ghislaine, and his naked body was retrieved floating in the waters off the Canary Islands in November 1991, he already had been drowning in debt.

His business empire was on the verge of ruin and he’d stolen, Bernie Madoff-style, more than $400 million from his employees’ pension funds to forestall bankruptcy. The Pulitzer-Prize-winning reporter Seymour Hersh had recently accused him of being a longtime Israeli intelligence agent in a book about Israel’s nuclear weapons arsenal, The Samson Option.

Epstein, whose pal, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak often crashed at his $77 million Upper East Side apartment in New York, also has been accused of unsavory connections to Israel.

“What are the driving forces that make people do things?’ Ghislaine’s mother Elisabeth asked about her husband in 1995 during a New York Times interview to promote her unusually candid autobiography, A Mind of My Own. In it she admitted Maxwell was a philanderer and often treated her badly—but she said she loved him.

“I hope one day there will be a balance. That time passes, passions fall and eventually some truths emerge,” she said. “It was really a Greek tragedy that his path should have finished the way it did.”

Two of Maxwell’s sons, Kevin and Ian, were investigated for fraud involving their father’s empire after his death and both were cleared in 1996, although at one point Kevin was banned from running a company in the U.K. for eight years. Both landed back in court in 2015 and 2016 facing bankruptcy issues involving another U.K. financial company to which they owed money.

The Oxford-educated Ghislaine, who used to be referred to reflexively as a “British socialite,” reportedly was her father’s favorite. But two of her sisters, the twins Isabel and Christine, now 69, are the most accomplished of the family. They are internet content pioneers who started Magellan, one of the first search engines, and were featured in Michael Wolff’s book, Burn Rate, about his foray into early startups.

The sisters (Christine was said to be the brains behind the operation) made millions when Magellan was later sold to the Excite search company.

Curiously, Isabel followed in the family tradition of filing for bankruptcy in December 2015 despite having been a multi-millionaire. That move may have been related to the untimely demise at age 56 of her third husband, the infamous con man Al Seckel who, she later found out, was not legally her husband since he was still married to his first wife. In 2015, when he reportedly died, he was potentially on the hook for millions.

Seckel, the son of a refugee from the Nazis, moved to L.A. and used his wile and charm to pass himself off as an Ivy League graduate and double doctoral candidate at Caltech.

Seckel befriended and bewitched the Nobel Prize-winning physicists Richard Feynman and Murray Gell-Mann among other neuroscientists, as well as academics and even magicians like James Randi.

(His daughter, Elizabeth Seckel, has built on her father’s work in optical illusion by pioneering something called “mirror box therapy.” Seckel brought her method, sponsored by the Clinton Global Initiative, to Haiti after the earthquake in 2012 to help recent amputees with their phantom limb pain.)

Christine Maxwell and her astrophysicist husband Roger Malina have, until recently at least, divided their time between their home here in Meyreuil and Dallas, Texas. Malina teaches at the University of Texas there and Christine is a doctoral candidate in the humanities department, a UT spokeswoman told The Daily Beast. Malina was also a director at an astrophysics center in Marseille until last year.

Roger Malina is the son of Czechoslovak-born Frank Malina, an early Elon Musk type who was part of the ragtag group whose daring rocket experiments in 1930s Pasadena led to the formation of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in L.A., the precursor to NASA.

Frank Malina’s best friend, Jack Parsons, was the most charismatic of the group. He led a double life with non-scientist friends like L. Ron Hubbard and Robert Heinlein, author of Stranger in a Strange Land, Starship Troopers, and other sci-fi classics. Parsons also joined an occult group involving the dark arts and sex fetishes founded by Aleister Crowley, an English occultist and magician.

In an odd echo of Jeffrey Epstein’s reported desire to seed the human race with his own DNA, Parsons and Hubbard tried for a time to impregnate women to bring forth Babalon, a goddess described as the “Scarlet Woman” in the Themelic belief system to which Crowley subscribed.

When Parsons died in a mysterious explosion at his home at age 37, he had stopped working for JPL and was for a time a consultant to Israel’s nascent rocket system. Media accounts at the time hinted at “sexual perversion,” “black robes,” “sacred fire” and “intellectual necromancy,” according to Vice—and there were also whispers that he might have been murdered.

Frank Malina, Christine Maxwell Malina’s father-in-law, was more of a straight arrow than Parsons and fared better, at first. But some historians say he was cheated of his rightful place as a true hero of the early space race because of years of harassment by the FBI who labeled him a socialist during the McCarthy years because he had campaigned against racial segregation, and raised money for republicans in the Spanish Civil War. After World War II he fled to Paris, where he became a painter and watched the space program soar from afar

In a brutal twist, Wernher von Braun, a Nazi rocket scientist who was brought to the U.S. as part of Operation Paperclip, the government program that brought Nazi scientists to build American rockets, became the face of the early space program that some feel Malina deserved to have been.

Roger Malina blogs about his famous father on his website where he wrote last year: “Yes, Elon Musk, they triggered in the USA the work that led to your ‘strange’ vision—and they did it a stone’s throw from where your company SpaceX is currently headquartered. And you are dreaming the same dreams as the ‘suicide squad,’ as they were called, at Caltech in the 1930s.”

Aleister Crowley - and his Thelemic belief system. Models "loaned out" for $100,000 a night, flown between countries, fraudulent visas from France, model agencies, the old CIA OPERATION PAPERCLIP alleged involvement by Ms. Maxwell's family, rocket scientists NASA, L. Ron Hubbard.

The extent of the diabolical plans, plots, links, people is incredible. Starting their own race with a Babylonian goddess at the forefront. Not even just doing this on earth, but also in the realm of space.

You had a former Senate Majority Leader (Mitchell) who was involved with Epstein, Congress does not think they should look into anything, Jean Luc Brunel reportedly signed in to visit Epstein 70X while he was in jail in Palm Beach, and he was reportedly jetting underage girls back and forth between NYC and Paris.....

There is a war going on between good and God's ways and Evil. Unfortunately the evil ones have more money, power and their low down deeds and plans just go on.

gina - 8/20/2019 at 10:45 PM


"For Ghislaine, presumably, outer space is not an option. But in point of fact, she does know how to operate a lot of exotic machinery. In addition to speaking four languages and holding a degree from Oxford, she’s a trained private helicopter pilot, a submersible pilot and qualified to operate undersea robots. Much was made of the latter qualifications when she was fund-raising for her now defunct TerraMar oceanic environmental project, which shuttered after Epstein’s arrest last month. "

8-18-19 Dana Kennedy more-skeletons-in-her-family-closet-than-a-house-of-horrors

From the article about Skeletons in the Closet

She is trained as a submersible pilot and qualified to operate undersea robots. Who provides training like that? Military would, or maybe she's a marine biologist like George Costanza in that Seinfeld episode. story.html

The photo at the In and Out with Her Close friend and attorney was photoshopped. hoto-N-close-friend-attorney.html
Project founded 2012, offered lesson plans targeting students 5- 18 years old. 38
Terramar Project Inc
150 Presidential Way No. 510
Woburn, MA 01801
Correspondence Monte Albers de Leon
Director of Development Brian Yurasits y-over-links-to-jeffrey-epstein/

July 21, 2019 Ghislaine brought Clinton to Epstein – Bruce Golding frey-epstein-report/ r-way-to-perform-oral-sex-suit/
8-20 Emily Saul and and Lisa Eustachewich tal-epstein-victim-treated-alleged/ ated-alleged-sex-slave-report/

Was/is Ms. Maxwell an agent for one of the intelligence agencies?

[Edited on 8/20/2019 by gina]

[Edited on 8/20/2019 by gina]

[Edited on 8/20/2019 by gina]

gina - 8/20/2019 at 10:48 PM

Epstein's will was prepared two days before he was coincidentally dead. n-to-mysterious-trust?ref=home
His assets were put in a a protected instrument called The 1953 Trust. The trust keeps the beneficiary private. He set up corporation to own his properties, Cypress Inc. for the New Mexico ranch, Laurel Inc. for the Palm Beach home, SCI JEP a French company for the property in Paris at 22 Avenue Foch, Poplar Inc holds the title to great St. James Island, and Nautilus, Inc. holds the title to Little St. James Island. Indyke & Kahn are the attorneys, they are using a Virgin Islands firm, Kellerhalls, Ferguson & Krobin, PLLC as their attorneys. Erika Kellerhals is one of Epstein’s attorneys named in tax documents for his charities and a partner of the firm. [she could be the mystery woman who would come to consult with him in the attorney offices at the Metropolitan Correctional Center jail]. -Gates-science-adviser-Boris-Nikolic-executor-will.html

REMARK: Impeccable timing, saving his assets putting them into trusts. Makes you wonder if he really is dead, or the photo of him on the gurney was photoshopped also to get him out of a big mess.

gina - 8/20/2019 at 10:49 PM

There are more things that have come out, the Prime Minister was from Australia.

• Woman in Video is Ex Australian Prime Minister’s daughter Kathleen Keating. – Margie Murphy Los Angeles, Nick Allen and Rozina Sabur ey-epsteins-house-daughter-ex/

Katherine Keating, 37, was identified as the mystery brunette seen waving goodbye to the Duke [Andrew] as she left Epstein's house in New York in 2010.

gina - 8/20/2019 at 11:00 PM

The real rub (pardon the pun) is WHY this case will never be taken seriously or have anything done about it and that goes back to the original case:

October 2007 Miami top Prosecutor Alex Acosta (named US Attorney for Miami by George W Bush) met with jay Lefkowitz former colleague at Kirland & Ellis Law Firm. 53 page federal indictment he could have did life in jail instead he served only 13 months, during which time he was housed at the jail and allowed to leave for 12 hours a day to go work in an office in a “Non Prosecution Agreement”.

This agreement shut down the FBI probe.

He plead guilty to 2 prostitution charges in state court. Epstein and 4 accomplices received immunity from all federal criminal charges and granted immunity to any potential co-conspirators who were involved in his crimes.
The deal was kept hidden from the victims and was sealed until after approved by the Judge.

Acosta was given the job as Secretary of Labor under Trump’s administration. But that position has the oversight responsibilities on issues including human trafficking. [he subsequently resigned his position before the current situation came about].

While the US Attorney in Miami, Acosta allowed Epstein’s lawyers to dictate the terms of the non prosecution agreements. Bradley Edwards former state prosecutor representing some of Epstein’s victims asked how do you the US attorney engage in negotiation with a criminal defendant allowing the defendant to write up the agreement? Question not adequately answered.

As a result of Acosta letting them do this, neither the victims or judge would know how many girls were abused between 2001 and 2005. The Palm Beach Police Chief Michael Reiter said there were 50 women. Courtney Wild now 30 years old was 14 at the time.

Epstein’s case happened when the financial crisis of 2008 hit. He was a federal witness against 2 executives of Bear Stearns. Epstein was one of the largest investors in the hedge fund managed by the executives who were charged with securities fraud and later acquitted.

*Herald identifies 80 women from 2001 to 2006 that were abused by Epstein. 8 agreed to interviews, 4 willing to do videos. One died last year in a run down motel in WPB.

Epstein repaid restitution to 36 victims identified by the FBI.

2011 Acosta said he was pressured by Epstein’s lawyers including Kenneth Starr (Whitewater prosecutor) etc.

REMARKS: He was given immunity from prosecution for other crimes that they knew about, crimes involving what the Palm Beach Police Chief said involved 50 girls. The Judge was not even allowed to know how many girls were involved, and was able to write this deal up totally going above the prosecutor on the case!

IMPRESSION: Epstein was gotten out of jail, will hang out and live his life wheeling and dealing under some other name/corporation/identity with the full knowledge of persons in the government. Things will go on as they have for years with all the guilty people enjoying their guilty pleasures and keeping their mouths shut; look how long this has gone on for. Look how many people were involved. Do you think the idea of creating a perfect race will stop? Eugenics has been a dream of many twisted people for a very long time. Prince Andrew keeps denying everything in spite of their being pictures of him and Ms. Giuffre, pictures and video of him waving goodbye from inside Epstein's mansion to a brunette, etc. etc.

We cannot stop evil because the people with the most money are the most evil and have the most power. We can be aware of it, launch our own little protests like not patronize businesses they own and prepare for the day when Jesus comes back to wage the grand jihad against all the evil on the planet, that day will come. Be prepared to get off the grid when necessary, be prepared for totalitarianism if and when it comes to our shores. Did you know Trump wants to re-institute the NSA spying program permanently? Well he does. The regular people need to be spied on while the wealthy continue in their high crimes and hypocrisy as they get their wet dreams of their new world order and enslaving everybody else. Yes we live in those times.

(One a side note :One thing, much speculation exist(s) about that portrait of Bill Clinton. I read that it was a spoof on the Monica Lewinsky matter, the furniture in the picture is from the Oval Office from the time he was there, the blue dress was symbolic of her dress. It was like a running joke; it was not a revelation that he is a transvestite).

[Edited on 8/20/2019 by gina]

gina - 8/20/2019 at 11:20 PM

Giuffre doesn't want the Epstein saga to end without her getting some justice from Prince Andrew. state-latest -all-he-knows-about-jeffrey-epstein

"On Monday Brad Edwards, a lawyer for Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre, who claims she was made to have sex with the prince, told the Guardian: “I look forward to coordinating a formal deposition where [Andrew] will be given the opportunity to tell us everything he knows. We would like to do this as soon as possible, at his convenience, and again we are very appreciative of his willingness to help.”

The video of Andrew. ide-paedophile-Jeffrey-Epsteins-63million-mansion-depravity.html

Giuffre has previously stated she was paid $15,000 to have sex with him, and other articles have said that Epstein would loan his girls out for $100,000 per night.

[Edited on 8/20/2019 by gina]

MarkRamsey - 8/21/2019 at 01:18 AM

Lunatic fringe, I know you're out there.....

BrerRabbit - 8/21/2019 at 02:47 PM

I am sorry this story shook you up so bad. Was gonna post some snark but then it occurred to me you are really going off on this, you have been rattlling on since it occurred.. I agree it is a sick saga, also agree that you can't touch these types - best thing is to ignore them and not feed the power of their mythology. They are just sick little people with lots of money who live in a dark world - you want folks to care and that is a good thing, but all the speculation and wildeyed guessing is just peasants telling stories about their masters and building legends around worthless filth better forgotten.

gina - 8/24/2019 at 08:25 PM

Laid to rest in an unmarked tomb beside parents. parents-Jewish-mausoleum-Florida.html

The cemetery is usually closed for the Sabbath, but not for Jeffrey, just as all the other doors opened for him, so did the gates to eternity. After a small funeral at Frank E. Campbell Funeral Chapel on Madison Avenue in NYC, his body was taken and entombed at the West Palm Beach cemetery his parents are entombed at. I J Morris Star of David where a space is $250,000.
the will 8-21-19 he put all the assets in trust so that they would not be made public. The will was filed in the Virgin Islands so that any claims against the estate would have to be filed there as well. The accusers will need Virgin Island Lawyers to file proceedings there or the current lawyers need to take the bar and be licensed in the Virgin Islands. ssaulted-rape-victim-18-plainclothes-deputies-stood-feet-away.html
Alleged dirty deeds done in public while on work release.

gina - 8/24/2019 at 08:26 PM

THE DRESS AND CLINTON PAINTING - He did NOT pose for it. inting-speaks-out.html

The student who posed for the painting of Clinton in a dress and the man who painted it. The French model, Christophe Nayal, the painter, Petrina Ryan Kleid and how the painting went from the NY Academy of Art to Epsteins lair at 9 E. 71 St.

gina - 8/24/2019 at 08:30 PM

EIGHT GUARDS Assigned to monitor Epstein in his cell on 9 South at MCC. So why does nobody know what happened? w-ignored-orders-Jeffrey-Epstein-not-allowed-left-alone.html

His cellmate related in another story that he himself had been threatened with a note he sent to complain about conditions coming back and being slit with a razor blade and that he was told not to complain. ites-accusers-hearing-week.html

[Edited on 8/24/2019 by gina]

gina - 8/24/2019 at 08:35 PM

JEAN LUC BRUNEL - ey-Epstein-three-poor-12-year-old-triplets-France-birthday-present.html

Triplets for Epstein's birthday as a present? Just coming for one night, and then flown back to Paris?

AND photos of the women seeking to sue Epstein, including Ms. Giuffre photos of her then and now as a 35 years old married women with 3 kids (who lives in Australia).

[Edited on 8/24/2019 by gina]

BrerRabbit - 8/25/2019 at 03:20 PM

Although I am glad this snake is dead, what makes this all the more disturbing is the question lurking just off camera: "What would I do if I had unlimited funds?" This story implicates our nature in an ugly and scary way. Even closer to home is how a lot of us music fans have at worst admired or at best ignored similar behaviors by our rock idols.

Rather than use these horrors as a pedestal from which to broadcast our righteousness - Maybe a positive takeaway, the best way to heal is to view these terrible stories of money, lust, murder, and mayhem as a mirror of our collective psyche to reflect light on ourslves to dispel our own darkness.

Epstein died for our sins.

[Edited on 8/25/2019 by BrerRabbit]

gina - 8/28/2019 at 08:49 PM

Very true everything you said. On the one hand the story of a poor kid from Coney Island becoming a rich hedge fund manager leading a life like that it is fascinating but worse and yes I will post links, we have to look at our own selves. We can criticize Jean Luc Brunel for his dealings with Epstein but he is very sexy and truth be told half the women you could ask would tell you they are attracted to his looks. If they were 15 or 16 would they sleep with him? Many would want to. Are we all hypocrites? Our culture promote the ideas of if I want it I can have it making excuses and justifying it. Look at the song Good Clean Fun "if you don't want to love me somebody else will", not a lot different than a sexy model scout looking for young women. There is a lot more that this whole case can teach people about themselves and our culture.

gina - 12/10/2019 at 09:40 PM

Ghislaine Maxwell, friend, associate to Jeffrey Epstein is to do a 'tell all' interview with the BBC where she reportedly will support Prince Andrew in his denials that he had anything to do with Virginia Roberts, BUT there is evidence that may not be so. s-remember-virginia-giuffre/

"The royal has insisted he doesn’t remember ever meeting Giuffre, who says she was sex-trafficked to Andrew by his sick pal Epstein in 2001.

An email from the prince shows Giuffre was at least on Andrew’s mind four years ago, the BBC said.

The UK broadcaster said it had a copy of an email sent “From: Duke of York” to pedophile Epstein’s socialite sidekick, Ghislaine Maxwell, in 2015. That’s the year Giuffre sued Maxwell for defamation amid Giuffre’s claims that Epstein raped and trafficked her.

“Let me know when we can talk. Got some specific questions to ask you about Virginia Roberts,” the prince allegedly wrote to Maxwell.

Maxwell responded, “Have some info. Call me when you have a moment,” the BBC said."

The BBC said it has an affidavit from Giuffre’s boyfriend in 2001 saying he saw the picture of her with the prince at the time and that she told him she was forced to have sex with the royal.

The photographer whom Giuffre allowed to snap a copy of the shot, making it public, added to the broadcaster, “There’s no way that photo is fake.

“It wasn’t like [Giuffre] pulled the photo of Prince Andrew out — it was just in amongst the rest of them. These were 5-by-7 photos that looked like they had come from [a London drug store], nothing more complicated than that. They were just typical teenage snaps.” epstein-scandal/
“She will do a sit-down interview with a big US network and defend the duke. Apparently, she’ll say Virginia Giuffre is lying and Andrew never had sex with her,” the source told the UK paper. -prince-andrew/

Andrew maintains that he was attending a childrens pizza party at the time. th-teenager-as-at-home-after-pizza-party

Ms. Roberts said there were three times he had sex with her.

BrerRabbit - 12/11/2019 at 05:21 PM

Are we all hypocrites?


tcatanesi - 12/12/2019 at 06:24 PM

Andrew maintains that he was attending a childrens pizza party at the time.

Yes, Andrew (the adult) and Virginia Roberts (the child) shared a pizza after sex.

Thus, Andrew was attending a children's pizza party.

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