Thread: Donald Trump: Worried About Mexican Immigrants Perpetrating Violence in the U.S.?

robslob - 8/4/2019 at 04:22 PM

HOW ABOUT A COMPREHENSIVE MENTAL HEALTH EXAM FOR EVERY AMERICAN WHITE MALE WHO ATTEMPTS TO PURCHASE A WEAPON??


pops42 - 8/4/2019 at 07:03 PM

You don't see many illegal Mexican immigrants committing mass shootings?. Expanded background checks need to happen. The right wing has NO PLAN, except, sell more guns. If a black man went and shot up 20 people at a Michael Buble concert, trump would be crowing about it 24/7, but since it was Mexicans, he's fine with it.



[Edited on 8/5/2019 by pops42]


rmack - 8/4/2019 at 08:59 PM

How long before Alex Jones and Gina tell us that El Paso and Dayton didn't happen or if they did they were part of a conspiracy to take everyone's guns away?


BIGV - 8/4/2019 at 09:03 PM

quote:
HOW ABOUT A COMPREHENSIVE MENTAL HEALTH EXAM FOR EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO ATTEMPTS TO PURCHASE A WEAPON??


Fixed that for ya


robslob - 8/4/2019 at 09:28 PM

Actually I am with you 100% Vince. But I was trying to make a point. Trump is purposely looking away from his own kind. It's painful for me to admit as a white male myself. But white males are perpetrating 95% of this hatred and mayhem.


adhill58 - 8/4/2019 at 09:32 PM

quote:
quote:
HOW ABOUT A COMPREHENSIVE MENTAL HEALTH EXAM FOR EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO ATTEMPTS TO PURCHASE A WEAPON??


Fixed that for ya


Wouldn't that get in the way of selling as many guns as possible? Isn't that the most important part of this situation? We have elected people who think the business model and financial interests of the gun industry in the USA is to be protected before the lives of the citizens of the USA. Trump, Pence, McConnell, McCarthy, Scalise (somehow), Gov. Abbott of Texas, and many others literally are sacrificing people to help the bottom line of gun sellers.


robslob - 8/4/2019 at 10:10 PM

quote:

Wouldn't that get in the way of selling as many guns as possible? Isn't that the most important part of this situation? We have elected people who think the business model and financial interests of the gun industry in the USA is to be protected before the lives of the citizens of the USA. Trump, Pence, McConnell, McCarthy, Scalise (somehow), Gov. Abbott of Texas, and many others literally are sacrificing people to help the bottom line of gun sellers.


YUP


pops42 - 8/4/2019 at 10:44 PM

This is the problem 100 percent. And until people's lives are valued more than gun makers bottom line, nothing will change.


BIGV - 8/4/2019 at 11:04 PM

Once again, I feel if you really believe this to be a gun issue and not a Mental Health problem, we are fixing nothing.


adhill58 - 8/4/2019 at 11:18 PM

quote:
Once again, I feel if you really believe this to be a gun issue and not a Mental Health problem, we are fixing nothing.


Once again, what are the Mental Health solutions and are they working?

[Edited on 8/4/2019 by adhill58]


pops42 - 8/4/2019 at 11:26 PM

quote:
Once again, I feel if you really believe this to be a gun issue and not a Mental Health problem, we are fixing nothing.
read the posts again.


BrerRabbit - 8/4/2019 at 11:27 PM


quote:
. . .white males are perpetrating 95% of this hatred and mayhem.


Starting to look like a series-wide failure of hardwiring by now, as if an entire generation needs a recall.


pops42 - 8/4/2019 at 11:33 PM

And now we have a shooter who just wanted to kill Mexicans. MAGA moron I'll bet.


BIGV - 8/4/2019 at 11:44 PM

quote:
We have elected people who think the business model and financial interests of the gun industry in the USA is to be protected before the lives of the citizens of the USA.


Not very different at all from those we've elected who place the well being of Illegal Aliens incarcerated at the border for crossing Illegally over the health of Veterans who sleep in the streets.


BIGV - 8/4/2019 at 11:44 PM

quote:

quote:
. . .white males are perpetrating 95% of this hatred and mayhem.


Starting to look like a series-wide failure of hardwiring by now, as if an entire generation needs a recall.


Amen Brother. Amen.


porkchopbob - 8/4/2019 at 11:46 PM

quote:
Not very different at all from those we've elected who place the well being of Illegal Aliens incarcerated at the border for crossing Illegally over the health of Veterans who sleep in the streets.

Can you reference a politician who specifically stated this?


adhill58 - 8/4/2019 at 11:52 PM

quote:
quote:
We have elected people who think the business model and financial interests of the gun industry in the USA is to be protected before the lives of the citizens of the USA.


Not very different at all from those we've elected who place the well being of Illegal Aliens incarcerated at the border for crossing Illegally over the health of Veterans who sleep in the streets.


Right, there is more than one problem in the world.

I don't really see how griping about immigrants can fix a mass shooting epidemic.

If this has a "mental health solution" what is it and are Republicans fighting for and funding this solution? Also, has it stopped any mass shootings?


rmack - 8/4/2019 at 11:57 PM

quote:
quote:
We have elected people who think the business model and financial interests of the gun industry in the USA is to be protected before the lives of the citizens of the USA.


Not very different at all from those we've elected who place the well being of Illegal Aliens incarcerated at the border for crossing Illegally over the health of Veterans who sleep in the streets.


This is pure unadulterated horseshit.


BIGV - 8/5/2019 at 04:53 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
We have elected people who think the business model and financial interests of the gun industry in the USA is to be protected before the lives of the citizens of the USA.


Not very different at all from those we've elected who place the well being of Illegal Aliens incarcerated at the border for crossing Illegally over the health of Veterans who sleep in the streets.


This is pure unadulterated horseshit.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I respectively disagree with you.


porkchopbob - 8/5/2019 at 12:42 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
We have elected people who think the business model and financial interests of the gun industry in the USA is to be protected before the lives of the citizens of the USA.


Not very different at all from those we've elected who place the well being of Illegal Aliens incarcerated at the border for crossing Illegally over the health of Veterans who sleep in the streets.


This is pure unadulterated horseshit.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I respectively disagree with you.


This is a false equivalency. One has nothing to do with the other, no politician has stated this. It's just unrelated issues that you stitched together in an over-simplified fashion to create a straw man argument that fails to address the topic. Judge a Society by its Prisons, especially those holding children.


crazyjoe - 8/5/2019 at 04:05 PM

quote:
Once again, I feel if you really believe this to be a gun issue and not a Mental Health problem, we are fixing nothing.


I am not so quick to fully agree here. I would love to see mental health care improve big time, however if we adhere strictly to the statement above, then every murder in the United States could be attributed to mental health issues. There will be no fix all solution here, we gonna have fight to save one life at a time, we are going to have to start using all tools at our disposal, be it back round checks, education, public involvement etc??.....Peace....joe


BrerRabbit - 8/5/2019 at 05:57 PM

Nah, let's just blame the other party and let the country get shot full of holes like Bonnie and Clyde.


BIGV - 8/5/2019 at 09:14 PM

quote:
then every murder in the United States could be attributed to mental health issues.


Absolutely not. Just the ones where the intent was to kill or maim as many innocent people as possible.


Skydog32103 - 8/5/2019 at 10:02 PM

we should be rejecting language from any leader that feeds into fear and hatred.


BIGV - 8/5/2019 at 10:24 PM

quote:
we should be rejecting language from any leader that feeds into fear and hatred.


Agreed. Every single individual can choose to make that decision.....


porkchopbob - 8/6/2019 at 06:47 PM

quote:
quote:
then every murder in the United States could be attributed to mental health issues.


Absolutely not. Just the ones where the intent was to kill or maim as many innocent people as possible.


So all Terrorists are "mentally ill" and not responsible for their actions? Also, are you a Mental Health Specialist?


goldtop - 8/6/2019 at 11:44 PM

My grand kids now live in Idaho and we visited them there this weekend for one of the boys birthday. We didn't really explore the area much(South Eastern Idaho) and the people we meet were all nice. At the airport, in Idaho Falls, as we were waiting to board our plane. I spotted a white male with the iron cross tattooed to his elbow. Idaho is known for having the one largest number of Neo-Nazi's and white supremacists groups in the west. So when they moved there I was concerned about my grandsons being at some point coming across people like that.

I think anyone who displays a symbol like that shouldn't be allowed to own a gun period EOS. The kids in the picture choking AOC...all of them should not be allowed to own a gun and if they have one now it should be taken away from them. The kid who stood in front of the native American with his stupid **** eating grin should never have a weapon or any of the kids who have displayed the 3 finger white power symbol in their high school photos.

Any form of hate speech or symbols should be the low bar for preventing people from having a gun of any type.


If we should succeed in getting background check websites and social media sites should be asked for so they can be searched for hate speech.

Yes "anyone" who wants to buy a weapon should be put under a psychological evaluation...everyone!! plus safety and ethics classes about how the gun is tool and not an end all for being angry.

We should have on going buy back programs for those willing to give up weapons they don't need if they feel they want to give up a weapon.

[Edited on 8/6/2019 by goldtop]

[Edited on 8/6/2019 by goldtop]


BIGV - 8/6/2019 at 11:59 PM

quote:
The kid who stood in front of the native American with his stupid **** eating grin should never have a weapon or any of the kids who have displayed the 3 finger white power symbol in their high school photos.


See the thread (Peach fest) where this point was brought up, I guess if it's someone you like, it doesn't matter


goldtop - 8/7/2019 at 12:17 AM

quote:
quote:
The kid who stood in front of the native American with his stupid **** eating grin should never have a weapon or any of the kids who have displayed the 3 finger white power symbol in their high school photos.


See the thread (Peach fest) where this point was brought up, I guess if it's someone you like, it doesn't matter


If someone comes to buy a weapon and in their background and social media check, they find a violent message of hate against any person...It doesn't matter if I personally like the person they hate or not...they should not be allowed a weapon.


BIGV - 8/7/2019 at 12:34 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
The kid who stood in front of the native American with his stupid **** eating grin should never have a weapon or any of the kids who have displayed the 3 finger white power symbol in their high school photos.


See the thread (Peach fest) where this point was brought up, I guess if it's someone you like, it doesn't matter


If someone comes to buy a weapon and in their background and social media check, they find a violent message of hate against any person...It doesn't matter if I personally like the person they hate or not...they should not be allowed a weapon.


As long as there is no "Call to action" it is free speech as protected by the 1st amendment


BIGV - 8/7/2019 at 12:35 AM

quote:
Any form of hate speech


Please provide the legal definition of "Hate speech"


goldtop - 8/7/2019 at 12:38 AM

I'm not playing your game Vince if you haven't figured out what hate speech is by this time in your life I'm not here to educate you. You haven't been paying attention for a long time as you hide being semantics and word games to justify your thoughtless positions in life.

Hate speech is not protected..go tell you neighbor your going to kill him and see the response from the police when he calls them


BIGV - 8/7/2019 at 12:46 AM

quote:
I'm not playing your game Vince if you haven't figured out what hate speech is by this time in your life I'm not here to educate you.


I am asking you to educate everybody.

What is the LEGAL definition of "Hate speech"?


BIGV - 8/7/2019 at 12:50 AM

quote:
Hate speech is not protected..go tell you neighbor your going to kill him and see the response from the police when he calls them


This is not "Hate speech" my friend, because by legal definition, there is NO SUCH THING. It is a threat of physical violence which is a crime.

Know the difference


goldtop - 8/7/2019 at 02:00 AM

Again sorry Vince if anyone here in or age group has a question on what hate speech is I'd say they've live as ignorant people that use word games to justify their vile ideologies

As Ben Franklin said "we're all born ignorant but you have to work hard to stay that way"...congratulation you embody that phrase in all your posts


BIGV - 8/7/2019 at 02:29 AM

quote:
Again sorry Vince if anyone here in or age group has a question on what hate speech is I'd say they've live as ignorant people that use word games to justify their vile ideologies

As Ben Franklin said "we're all born ignorant but you have to work hard to stay that way"...congratulation you embody that phrase in all your posts


It is not my fault that you are depending on a Fictional piece of verbiage to prove a point.

Again, please give us the LEGAL definition of "Hate speech" and when you can not, ask where ignorance is to be found.


robslob - 8/9/2019 at 01:27 PM

quote:

My grand kids now live in Idaho and we visited them there this weekend for one of the boys birthday. We didn't really explore the area much(South Eastern Idaho) and the people we meet were all nice. At the airport, in Idaho Falls, as we were waiting to board our plane. I spotted a white male with the iron cross tattooed to his elbow. Idaho is known for having the one largest number of Neo-Nazi's and white supremacists groups in the west. So when they moved there I was concerned about my grandsons being at some point coming across people like that.

I think anyone who displays a symbol like that shouldn't be allowed to own a gun period EOS. The kids in the picture choking AOC...all of them should not be allowed to own a gun and if they have one now it should be taken away from them. The kid who stood in front of the native American with his stupid **** eating grin should never have a weapon or any of the kids who have displayed the 3 finger white power symbol in their high school photos.

Any form of hate speech or symbols should be the low bar for preventing people from having a gun of any type.


If we should succeed in getting background check websites and social media sites should be asked for so they can be searched for hate speech.

Yes "anyone" who wants to buy a weapon should be put under a psychological evaluation...everyone!! plus safety and ethics classes about how the gun is tool and not an end all for being angry.

We should have on going buy back programs for those willing to give up weapons they don't need if they feel they want to give up a weapon.


Some excellent ideas here.


WaitinForRain - 8/18/2019 at 01:16 AM

I'm waiting for the flag waving pick and choose Xtians to get with the pages in their precious book

Thou shalt NOT kill
Love thy neighbor

Etc etc

You can't BE a Christian and be a white supremacist.

EOS


2112 - 8/18/2019 at 03:02 AM

quote:
I'm waiting for the flag waving pick and choose Xtians to get with the pages in their precious book

Thou shalt NOT kill
Love thy neighbor

Etc etc

You can't BE a Christian and be a white supremacist.

EOS



You wouldn't think so, but the transformation of Jesus from a champion of helping the poor to being a gun loving, capitalist who hates the environment and wants to eliminate the social safety net is truly amazing. And to see the hero of his followers being an adulterer who appears to consider The 7 Deadly Sins as his goals in life is truly fascinating.


BrerRabbit - 8/19/2019 at 02:07 AM

quote:
. . .the transformation of Jesus from a champion of helping the poor to being a gun loving, capitalist who hates the environment and wants to eliminate the social safety net is truly amazing. And to see the hero of his followers being an adulterer who appears to consider The 7 Deadly Sins as his goals in life is truly fascinating.


Hypocrites? Parasites? Wolves in sheep's clothing?

Nothing a little shofar can't fix, drives em right back down, did the trick at Jericho! Get comfortable, this youtube is a tad on the lengthy side:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8rxOW-YQT2E


BrerRabbit - 8/19/2019 at 03:47 AM

quote:
This is not "Hate speech" my friend, because by legal definition, there is NO SUCH THING . . .


Now that is some fancy footwork right there. Neat trick, It isn't a crime on the books so therefore it doesn't exist! Hey wow look at this trick: racism isn't a crime too . . . POOF . . . gone, no such thing!


BIGV - 8/19/2019 at 04:53 AM

quote:
quote:
This is not "Hate speech" my friend, because by legal definition, there is NO SUCH THING . . .


Now that is some fancy footwork right there. Neat trick, It isn't a crime on the books so therefore it doesn't exist! Hey wow look at this trick: racism isn't a crime too . . . POOF . . . gone, no such thing!



Actually the "neat trick" is using a fabricated terminology and comparing it to a real world issue like racism. You continually confuse the legal interpretation of a "call to action" with things spoken that you disagree with.

1) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Please, educate us all!...and give us the Legal definition of "hate speech"...When you can not do so you will begin to understand the difference between free speech and spoken words others find "Offensive".

Huge difference my friend, huge.


BrerRabbit - 8/19/2019 at 03:33 PM

quote:
Actually the "neat trick" is using a fabricated terminology and comparing it to a real world issue like racism. You continually confuse the legal interpretation of a "call to action" with things spoken that you disagree with.


Racism is not a crime. Hate speech is not a crime. Both are real things. Nice deflection with the "call to action" stuff. I agree on that and don't confuse it at all.

You are attempting to show that hate speech does not exist because it is not a crime.


[Edited on 8/19/2019 by BrerRabbit]


BIGV - 8/19/2019 at 03:41 PM

quote:
You are attempting to show that hate speech does not exist because it is not a crime.


Absolutely not. I am saying that it is fictional phrase devised by leftist Professors to describe verbiage they find offensive. It can not be legally defined and therefore it does not exist.

Disagree?...Give us the legal definition that would give this conjured up term credibility in a Court of Law.


BrerRabbit - 8/19/2019 at 04:01 PM

quote:
You are attempting to show that hate speech does not exist because it is not a crime.


quote:
Absolutely not. I am saying that it is fictional phrase devised by leftist Professors to describe verbiage they find offensive. It can not be legally defined and therefore it does not exist.

Disagree?...Give us the legal definition that would give this conjured up term credibility in a Court of Law.


So you are saying that "Hate Speech" does not exist for all practical purposes.

There is no legal definition for "racism." It is an abstract idea and technically does not exist until the results of racist action can be seen, heard,or felt.

"Hate speech" may not be a crime, but it is a reality. You certainly may differ on what hate speech is, as you may differ on what racism is.

These are ethical questions, they are not legal questions.

[Edited on 8/19/2019 by BrerRabbit]


BIGV - 8/19/2019 at 04:33 PM

quote:
quote:
You are attempting to show that hate speech does not exist because it is not a crime.


quote:
Absolutely not. I am saying that it is fictional phrase devised by leftist Professors to describe verbiage they find offensive. It can not be legally defined and therefore it does not exist.

Disagree?...Give us the legal definition that would give this conjured up term credibility in a Court of Law.


So you are saying that "Hate Speech" does not exist for all practical purposes.


Yes. Because it is nothing more than a rallying cry for language a segment of the population finds "offensive". The first amendment protects ALL speech unless there is a call for action as in Violence. The mere act of expressing hatred as some would define it is protected speech. If you don't care for it; it has been defined as something you find distasteful, nothing more. The term "Hate speech" is paraphrasing language judged to be abhorrent by those who would silence you if in their power. "Hate speech" is nothing more than one more attempt to apply "Politically correct" limitations on elocution that differs from your agenda.

You can prosecute racism through discrimination.

How does one pursue legal action against "hate speech"?


BrerRabbit - 8/19/2019 at 04:51 PM

quote:
You can prosecute racism through discrimination.


No, you prosecute discrimination as discrimination. Whether or not the discrimination is based on racism, or because of differences over asswiping habits, makes no difference at all, it is the discrimination that is a crime.

Let's get away from the politically charged "race" term, for the purpose of clarity, and use the above hypothetical, asswiping. Just because you may not wipe your ass, or do so in an inefficient manner, does not give me the right to attack you because I find you offensive. I think we agree here.

The question arises when I decide to denounce your hygienic practices to the world, at which point some may agree with me and some may not. So I stand on the street corner with a big sign that says "BigV doesn't wipe" - Now it becomes an issue: Other non-wipers come chafing around, getting all worked up and sweaty and activating their dinkle-oozecrust reek and say "Brerrabbit is engaging in hate speech!" But then the cleanass crowd chimes in with "No Brerrabbit is exercising his right to free speech!"

So there is the scenario. Purely an ethical quandary. Same thing with racism, it is gross, offensive, and worse than never wiping your ass, but it is LEGAL. If someone wants to walk around with a cloud of flies buzzing around the seat of their pants, that is their right. Just because dirty asses are allowed in no way means they do not exist.


BIGV - 8/19/2019 at 05:06 PM

You can prosecute racism through discrimination.

quote:
No, you prosecute discrimination as discrimination.


Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII)
This law makes it illegal to discriminate against someone on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, or sex.

"This law" makes it unlawful to discriminate against someone on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex (including pregnancy) or religion. One then can be prosecuted for racial discrimination.

I repeat..."How does one pursue legal action against "hate speech"?"


BrerRabbit - 8/19/2019 at 05:25 PM

quote:
I repeat..."How does one pursue legal action against "hate speech"?"


You are creating an argument where there is none. The law has no language on hate speech and racism. The law doesn't magically make things exist or vanish because it has no ruling on them. Law has zero bearing on ethical abstractions.

The main thing is that we have sorted through all the bullcrap and have a straight answer from you, according to BigV, HATE SPEECH DOES NOT EXIST.




BIGV - 8/19/2019 at 05:27 PM

quote:
The law has no language on hate speech


Exactly

quote:
HATE SPEECH DOES NOT EXIST


Thank You


BrerRabbit - 8/19/2019 at 05:37 PM

Congratulations. You have managed to prove to yourself that hate speech does not exist.


BIGV - 8/19/2019 at 05:47 PM

quote:
Congratulations. You have managed to prove to yourself that hate speech does not exist.


Thanks!....but, I've zero '"to prove to myself"...lol

You believe "it" does, I do not. So see, we have accomplished nothing by trying to convince one that the other is wrong. So I will continue to post my opinions and you and your ilk will continue to find fault.....

Have a great day ....


BrerRabbit - 8/19/2019 at 08:03 PM

quote:
. . .we have accomplished nothing by trying to convince one that the other is wrong.


A] I wasn't trying to convince you of anything. I could not care less what you think. I simply stated my view. Were you trying to convince me to adopt your idea that hate speech does not exist? Why would you do that? I will grant that your idea is an interesting abstract conceit but I didn't think for one second that you would actually believe anyone would buy that nonsense.
B] Plenty accomplished: Your unequivocal assertion that hate speech does not exist provides a good reference point for understanding your entire approach to reality. This will save me a lot of oxygen.
C] Congratulations. You have proven to yourself that you have nothing to prove to yourself.


BIGV - 8/19/2019 at 08:16 PM

quote:
Your unequivocal assertion that hate speech does not exist provides a good reference point for understanding your entire approach to reality.


You are hilarious.


BrerRabbit - 8/20/2019 at 05:12 AM

quote:
quote:
Your unequivocal assertion that hate speech does not exist provides a good reference point for understanding your entire approach to reality


quote:
You are hilarious




Yep, hilarious, ha ha ha frekin ha: Am more than used to it - your type has called me hilarious my whole life. I think Stormfront or 4chan chat forum would be a better fit for you. I am sure your kin there would find my concern over your toxic propaganda hilarious as well. Hate speech does not exist . . .my ass - you really think anybody with half a shred of conscience can sit by and take that crap and not react when you spew that poison? That is exactly the kind of ratpiss those Stormfront 4chan types get off on. Same as your Tucker Carlson White Supremacy Hoax venom. It is just flat out wrong and sick. And you know it.


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 07:22 AM

quote:
It is just flat out wrong and sick. And you know it.


No, I do not "know it" I am merely representative of a viewpoint you don't care for. That's the difference between you and me. I can tolerate opposing views without spewing bile.....You and a lot of others here can't seem to embrace that concept. But that's OK...we're all different; how boring would life be if we all shared the same emotions and views?

"Hate speech does not exist" That is correct, it's just a Moniker for an uttered phrase you individually object to. Kind of a camouflaged call for censorship.

Give me an example of something you would define as "Hate speech"..and I will wager that if it does not directly call for someone to harm another, (as in a Verbal threat) it will be nothing more than a sentence you have a label for. That's what you Libs do, is it not?....Label everything?..This guy hates women and that one is a Homophobe. "See that guy over there"? "He's a racist" and that man over near the door?..He's an old white guy who hates brown people. Every dissenter from the leftist agenda is either sick or just flat out wrong.

quote:
you really think anybody with half a shred of conscience can sit by and take that crap and not react when you spew that poison?


Perfect example, thanks. What kind of reaction are you alluding to?...Violence?...

"THAT'S 'HATE SPEECH'!!!! YOU THINK I AM GONNA LET HIM GET AWAY WITH THAT"!? Or will just schoolyard type name calling satiate you? Fact. ))>>>Not everyone is going to agree with your views, don't be such a snowflake.

quote:
Toxic propaganda


Quit responding then...lol. I repeat, you are hilarious all while continuing to react to thoughts you find "Toxic", most adults just walk away....


adhill58 - 8/20/2019 at 12:59 PM

Remeber when BIGV, the free speech superhero, swooped in to defend Ilhan Omar from the anti-semitism accusations made against her by the "PC Police"? All she did was say something offensive to some people. Remember when he jumped all over one of his fellow right-wingers on this forum for being an easily offended snowflake and calling Omar a racist because she said maybe people should fear white males?

Me either...

But "make no mistake" it is super important to fight for people's right to be offensive (when it is convenient).

Seems like his argument totally absolves her...


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 03:11 PM

quote:
But "make no mistake" it is super important to fight for people's right to be offensive (when it is convenient).


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it".
--Evelyn Beatrice Hall

I stand by this


Skydog32103 - 8/20/2019 at 03:32 PM

quote:
That's the difference between you and me. I can tolerate opposing views


You cry like a baby everyday on here about liberals, desperately looking for someone to argue with, and then say you are tolerant. I’m guessing you are single.


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 03:59 PM

quote:
quote:
That's the difference between you and me. I can tolerate opposing views


You cry like a baby everyday on here about liberals, desperately looking for someone to argue with, and then say you are tolerant. I’m guessing you are single.


I see it as disagreeing, your mileage may vary.


BrerRabbit - 8/20/2019 at 04:03 PM

quote:
"Hate speech does not exist" That is correct, it's just a Moniker for an uttered phrase you individually object to. Kind of a camouflaged call for censorship


Nice work, so satisfying for you - you got your rise out of someone. I'm not challenging your right to be offensive, just exercising my right to say you are offensive. Point: Holocaust Denial exists. I consider Holocaust Denial to be hate speech. Hate speech exists. Getting pissed off about Holocaust Denial is not a stealth call for censorship. Take it to Stormfront. They are waiting for you with open arms, got the tattoo gun all ready to put the spiderweb on your elbow.


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 04:08 PM

quote:
Point: Holocaust Denial exists. I consider Holocaust Denial to be hate speech


Disagree. "Holocaust Denial" is absolute ignorance of undeniable fact. Pure and simple.

I deny "Global warming" and speak out against it. Is that hate, ignorance or just disagreeing with statistics presented as facts?


BrerRabbit - 8/20/2019 at 04:30 PM

Ok, if you are uncomfortable with the term "Hate Speech" we can just call it something else. How about "deeply offensive racist sexist degrading demeaning dehumanizing intimidating humiliating speech that is protected by the US Constitution yet civil people choose of their own free will not to engage in" ?


[Edited on 8/20/2019 by BrerRabbit]


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 04:45 PM

quote:
Ok, if you are uncomfortable with the term "Hate Speech" we can just call it something else. How about "deeply offensive racist sexist degrading demeaning dehumanizing intimidating humiliating speech that is protected by the US Constitution yet civil people choose of their own free will not to engage in" ?



That is closer. My "gripe" is the Left having embraced this term and freely attempting to use it as a blanket excuse to silence things they don't want to hear and feel others should not either. If your provided definition above is how you feel about that phrase, well, there is little I can do about, nor will I attempt to.

quote:
yet civil people choose of their own free will not to engage in


That is always a choice. As long as there is no violence, let people say what they will....yawn


Skydog32103 - 8/20/2019 at 05:09 PM

quote:
My "gripe" is the Left


All you do is gripe because they have a different opinion than you.


BrerRabbit - 8/20/2019 at 05:14 PM

quote:
quote:
you really think anybody with half a shred of conscience can sit by and take that crap and not react when you spew that poison?



Perfect example, thanks. What kind of reaction are you alluding to?...Violence?...



Interesting that you jump to violence as a first conclusion. Dead giveaway on your mindset.

I was simply referring to the action of posting a response to your denial of hate speech, registering my disagreement.


[Edited on 8/20/2019 by BrerRabbit]


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 05:16 PM

quote:
quote:
My "gripe" is the Left


All you do is gripe because they have a different opinion than you.


Exactly, kind of like all the incessant "Grumbling" that goes on here concerning the President.

What's the difference?


Skydog32103 - 8/20/2019 at 05:29 PM

quote:
Exactly, kind of like all the incessant "Grumbling" that goes on here concerning the President.

What's the difference?


You constantly complain and criticize the opposing views of millions of Americans, while the people here on this site criticize one person for his personal behavior, and if you can’t understand the difference then I’ll “disagree” with you and say you are dumber than a box of rocks.


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 05:37 PM

quote:
quote:
Exactly, kind of like all the incessant "Grumbling" that goes on here concerning the President.

What's the difference?


You constantly complain and criticize the opposing views of millions of Americans, while the people here on this site criticize one person for his personal behavior, and if you can’t understand the difference then I’ll “disagree” with you and say you are dumber than a box of rocks.


You all here constantly criticize the President and then turn right around and belittle anyone who defends him. That's OK. But let anyone criticize the Left and whamo!... Meltdown that includes personal attacks and whatever you see fit.

Snowflake. You can hand it out, but you can't take it. If President Trump is a racist, then referring to the lack of intellect displayed by a Congresswoman seems like nothing more than turnabout. Both are mere opinions, right?

Sore losers at best; why all the anger?


bluesboy57 - 8/20/2019 at 05:53 PM

quote:
Actually I am with you 100% Vince. But I was trying to make a point. Trump is purposely looking away from his own kind. It's painful for me to admit as a white male myself. But white males are perpetrating 95% of this hatred and mayhem.


Maybe you should check the demographics of who's committing the vast majority of murders in the USA.


Skydog32103 - 8/20/2019 at 05:59 PM

quote:
Maybe you should check the demographics of who's committing the vast majority of murders in the USA.


You shouldn’t fall for that fake news.


bluesboy57 - 8/20/2019 at 06:04 PM

quote:
quote:
Maybe you should check the demographics of who's committing the vast majority of murders in the USA.


You shouldn’t fall for that fake news.


Check the weekly police reports from Chicago, Baltimore, NYC, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Los Angeles, Detroit...................


Skydog32103 - 8/20/2019 at 06:28 PM

quote:
Check the weekly police reports from Chicago, Baltimore, NYC, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Los Angeles, Detroit...................


Don’t believe the mainstream media - it’s all fake.


rmack - 8/20/2019 at 07:14 PM

quote:
quote:


I deny "Global warming" and speak out against it. Is that hate, ignorance or just disagreeing with statistics presented as facts?


No, that's stupidity.


Skydog32103 - 8/20/2019 at 07:25 PM

quote:
just disagreeing with statistics


Holy derangement!


adhill58 - 8/20/2019 at 07:52 PM

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quote:
Point: Holocaust Denial exists. I consider Holocaust Denial to be hate speech


Disagree. "Holocaust Denial" is absolute ignorance of undeniable fact. Pure and simple.

I deny "Global warming" and speak out against it. Is that hate, ignorance or just disagreeing with statistics presented as facts?


Not trying to derail the thread, but really? 150 years of industrial pollution is not going to have an environmental impact? Twenty plus years of breaking record high temperature records at over twice the rate of record lows is not global warming?

Are you in the "Chinese hoax" camp or the "climate scientists getting rich and famous" camp of science denial? Maybe you're with the "gays are the reason for hurricanes" crowd?

You know people didn't agree with Galileo when he said the earth goes around the sun, right? Should they have stuck to their guns?

For a Libertarian, there is a whole lot of Republican party nonsense being espoused.


adhill58 - 8/20/2019 at 07:58 PM

quote:
quote:
But "make no mistake" it is super important to fight for people's right to be offensive (when it is convenient).


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it".
--Evelyn Beatrice Hall

I stand by this



You realize that you did not really make any kind of response to the actual post, right? Why did you not "defend to the death" the situation I referenced? Here it is again:

Remeber when BIGV, the free speech superhero, swooped in to defend Ilhan Omar from the anti-semitism accusations made against her by the "PC Police"? All she did was say something offensive to some people. Remember when he jumped all over one of his fellow right-wingers on this forum for being an easily offended snowflake and calling Omar a racist because she said maybe people should fear white males?

Me either...

But "make no mistake" it is super important to fight for people's right to be offensive (when it is convenient).

Seems like his argument totally absolves her...


jkeller - 8/20/2019 at 08:03 PM

quote:
quote:
just disagreeing with statistics


Holy derangement!


Statistics, by definition, are facts.


BrerRabbit - 8/20/2019 at 08:35 PM

quote:
That is always a choice. As long as there is no violence, let people say what they will....yawn


Sounds to me like you have never experienced hate speech directed at you. I have, for real. It hurts. A few times it was combined with severe violence - guess what remains, decades later? The words and intent. They made more impact than the broken bones - that pain is forgotten. I wouldn't wish that memory on anyone. Hilarious, huh?

This is not an evil crafty liberal stealth call for censorship, I am grateful for our Constitution, however the truth isy ou can mess someone up with verbal abuse as bad as physical.

Hate speech does exist: It is surreal that we find ourselves in a world in which I have to say that hate speech is real. I could understand a debate over what qualifies as hate speech, but to argue over the existence of hate speech - future shock, man.

To openly deny that hate speech exists, to proudly proclaim this on a public forum, is hate speech.


[Edited on 8/21/2019 by BrerRabbit]


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 09:33 PM

quote:
Why did you not "defend to the death" the situation I referenced? .


Because I simply & absolutely disagree with her, but believe she has the right to say whatever she wants.


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 09:37 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
just disagreeing with statistics


Holy derangement!


Statistics, by definition, are facts.


Dead wrong.

Statistics are used to draw conclusions derived from data. They are NOT facts.

Can statistics be shaped to fit any argument you choose?


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 09:44 PM

quote:
This is not an evil crafty liberal stealth call for censorship


That is exactly what it is.

quote:
I could understand a debate over what qualifies as hate speech, but to argue over the existence of hate speech - future shock, man.


Then for the 5th time, I will ask you to give us the Legal definition. Since you are so set on proclaiming its existence, tell us how you would present it from a Prosecutorial point in a Court of Law. How would such a case argument begin?....What Law would one have broken?


BrerRabbit - 8/20/2019 at 09:56 PM


jkeller - 8/20/2019 at 10:15 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
just disagreeing with statistics


Holy derangement!


Statistics, by definition, are facts.


Dead wrong.

Statistics are used to draw conclusions derived from data. They are NOT facts.

Can statistics be shaped to fit any argument you choose?

“Statistics are used to draw conclusions”. Maybe, but statistics themselves are facts. X number of people voted for candidate A. That is a fact. Average Temperatures have been rising for the past decade.. that is a fact. Using statistics to twist things for your own agenda is misrepresenting facts.

But the statistics themselves are facts.


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 10:26 PM

quote:
“Statistics are used to draw conclusions”. Maybe, but statistics themselves are facts.


Sorry, but you are wrong, statistics are not facts, they are numbers and percentages alone do not constitute facts. You're a bright guy, you should know this.


adhill58 - 8/20/2019 at 11:14 PM

Let me guess, willful ignorance does not exist unless we can provide a legal definition.


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 11:19 PM

quote:
Let me guess, willful ignorance does not exist unless we can provide a legal definition.


Well, can you provide one for the term "Hate Speech"?...Seems pretty easy, either you can or you can not.


adhill58 - 8/20/2019 at 11:31 PM

Believe me, you are the only one who gives a turd about your legal definitions. There is no legal definition of a million things that in fact exist. “Sexy miniskirt” has no legal definition, but I have seen one.

You are basically arguing that the sky is green at this point. Hank Aaron hit 755 home runs, it’s a widely known statistic. Tell me what facts you can draw from that other than he hit the home runs. You are literally saying that the definitions of words are wrong.


BIGV - 8/20/2019 at 11:51 PM

quote:
Believe me, you are the only one who gives a turd about your legal definitions. There is no legal definition of a million things that in fact exist. “Sexy miniskirt” has no legal definition, but I have seen one.



"Sexy miniskirt" is a physical thing and therefore, can be seen and visually identified. "Hate Speech" as a terminology is an accusatory phrase. It is used by those who find certain remarks to be offensive....The assumption is that when you accuse someone of something you are expecting some sort of action. People who label what they feel to be "inflammatory" are doing so for a reason...What is to be gained?...The sheer joy of yelling out ..."That's hate speech"!?...or the intent of censorship?


jkeller - 8/20/2019 at 11:56 PM

There is no legal definition of hate speech because hate speech is not a crime. Pretty simple.

That is a fact. Like statistics.


BIGV - 8/21/2019 at 12:03 AM

quote:
There is no legal definition of hate speech because hate speech is not a crime.


Excellent.

Then what exactly is to be gained by accusing people of a manufactured term that can't be defined?


adhill58 - 8/21/2019 at 12:18 AM

quote:
quote:
Believe me, you are the only one who gives a turd about your legal definitions. There is no legal definition of a million things that in fact exist. “Sexy miniskirt” has no legal definition, but I have seen one.



"Sexy miniskirt" is a physical thing and therefore, can be seen and visually identified. "Hate Speech" as a terminology is an accusatory phrase. It is used by those who find certain remarks to be offensive....The assumption is that when you accuse someone of something you are expecting some sort of action. People who label what they feel to be "inflammatory" are doing so for a reason...What is to be gained?...The sheer joy of yelling out ..."That's hate speech"!?...or the intent of censorship?




“Miniskirt” is a physical thing that you can see. “Speech” is a physical thing that you can hear or read. “Sexy” and “hate” are adjectives describing the things. What one person thinks is sexy or hateful may not be the same as his neighbor. If a Jewish person thinks people in homemade nazi costumes chanting “Jews will not replace us” is hate speech, they are not wrong. You may have a difference of opinion, but that doesn’t really help the situation.


rmack - 8/21/2019 at 01:08 AM

quote:
quote:


Then what exactly is to be gained by accusing people of a manufactured term that can't be defined?


It can and has been defined. A search of "hate speech definition worldwide" took less than a blink of an eye and provided a very long list countries with very specific definitions and prohibitions. But, I guess if it doesn't exist here it doesn't exist. Like the vast melting of billions of tons of glacier ice that took millennia to develop and months to disappear - this reality doesn't exist for some people, therefore it isn't real.


adhill58 - 8/21/2019 at 01:33 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:


Dead wrong.

Statistics are used to draw conclusions derived from data. They are NOT facts.




Sounds a lot like “Alternative Facts”. Kellyanne would be proud of you, BIGV!


jkeller - 8/21/2019 at 01:50 AM

quote:
quote:
There is no legal definition of hate speech because hate speech is not a crime.


Excellent.

Then what exactly is to be gained by accusing people of a manufactured term that can't be defined?


I said there is no legal definition. There is no legal definition for "snow" but I am pretty sure it exists.


Skydog32103 - 8/21/2019 at 01:53 AM

Our president is tweeting about race today just like a liberal.


Skydog32103 - 8/21/2019 at 01:55 AM

Today, Trump name-called Omar simply because she has a differing opinion, just like those liberals.


Skydog32103 - 8/21/2019 at 02:04 AM

quote:
Then what exactly is to be gained by accusing people of a manufactured term that can't be defined?


Plenty. Trump’s “fake news” strategy was brilliant and worked.


Skydog32103 - 8/22/2019 at 01:51 AM

Trump played the religion card today, must be a liberal.


BrerRabbit - 8/24/2019 at 10:44 PM

quote:
That's the difference between you and me. I can tolerate opposing views without spewing bile


Give me a legal definition of bile. Bile does not exist.

I simply stated my opinion, raised objection to your idea that hate speech does not exist, that I think denial of hate speech is sick and toxic, and would be a welcome view on Stormfront and 4chan - you think that is bile, fine.

I am tolerant of your views and you are intolerant of mine. I countered your position in good conscience without malice and with no interest in changing your views. I did not repeatedly or even once challenge you to prove your theory that hate speech does not exist. I did not in any way recommend you alter your views. I did not cast aspersions on your character. I diid not go ad hominem to insult and mock you and call you hilarious for your statements.

Accusing me of a hidden censorship agenda was nothing more than a cheap strategy to sabotage my words beyond face value and push your program. That was completely false, and damn harsh after my post describing my experiences. I can assure you that I support free expression of ideas. My direct ancestors wrote the Constitution, Jim!

You are the one who cannot accept that others think differently. Disagreement is not intolerance.




[Edited on 8/25/2019 by BrerRabbit]


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