Thread: Politics and Religion

gina - 12/8/2018 at 06:47 PM

As the other thread Christianity and Obamacare pointed out our government is getting into religion more and more. A conservative Minister does not believe that Muslims should be in Congress, because Islam promotes and abides by Sharia law and America does not embrace or adhere to Sharia law. America is a nation whose laws are based on secular law and democracy. I think he is correct in the premis that a person's religion COULD impact how they vote in Congress, how they create laws that will be used in the governance of the country.

Would the potential representative reject legislation if it differs with Sharia law? People need to think about this because if, in 2040 will be a majority of the people in the US, then logically, the laws will change to reflect that. Another potential problem is when WWIII breaks out, will the Muslims stand with Americans or will they join with other Muslims mounting insurrections in the U.S.? This is important because the third world war will put Muslims and the Middle East against the US and Israel, and there is very slim chance that most Muslims would support Israel, at least not in it's present form. Most probably do not even know the difference between Israel and Judah or that history. Most probably do not even know they came from the original tribes who were prior to Islam, Jews.


"Conservative minister E.W. Jackson, however, appears to believe that not every religion should be represented in Congress.

After reports that Democrats were attempting to reverse a 181-year-old ban on headwear on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives, Jackson made a comment on his radio show, calling out Rep.-elect Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., who wears a hijab.

“The floor of Congress is now going to look like an Islamic republic,” Jackson said, according to the Hill. “We are a Judeo-Christian country.” He continued, “We are a nation rooted and grounded in Christianity and that’s that. And anybody that doesn’t like that, go live somewhere else. It’s very simple. Just go live somewhere else. Don’t try to change our country into some sort of Islamic republic or try to base our country on Sharia law.

According to the Pew Research Center, there were an estimated 3.45 million Muslim Americans in the United States in 2017. It projected that by 2040, Muslims will replace Jews as the country’s second-largest religious group after Christians. "

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/representative-elect-ilhan-omar-responds-pa stor-saying-congress-will-look-like-islamic-republic-twitter-011223779.html


So, would you vote for a Muslim for Congress? When Islam does not recognize secular law or embrace it?

Are the people who are running for Congress turning their back on their religion trying to become part of a secular society, or are they covertly organizing for the day when Sharia law can overtake secular law?

You can call E. W. Jackson an islamophobic, but he raises valid questions.

[Edited on 12/8/2018 by gina]


Sang - 12/8/2018 at 07:08 PM

Maybe it's the people who don't believe in freedom of religion that should move somewhere else......


2112 - 12/8/2018 at 08:04 PM

quote:
Maybe it's the people who don't believe in freedom of religion that should move somewhere else......


^This

The US is not a Judeo-Christian country, and the US has no official religion. Let's put it this way, I don't care what religion you are - but if you insist on trying to make laws that favor one religion over another, you have lost my vote and support. I will not vote for anyone who believes that the entire nation should follow Muslim law, or Christian law, or Jewish law, or any other religious based law. Anyone who believes otherwise has no understanding of the Constitution or freedom of religion. You can't impose religious laws without getting in the way of other people's religious freedom. If you want to live in a country based on religious laws - any religious laws - you should move. But, I have no problem voting for anyone of any religion who truly believes in freedom of religion and opposes religious laws in any form.


BrerRabbit - 12/8/2018 at 10:02 PM

A few people have posted right here on the WP in no uncertain terms that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to hold public office in the US.


gina - 12/12/2018 at 11:32 PM

quote:
quote:
Maybe it's the people who don't believe in freedom of religion that should move somewhere else......


^This

The US is not a Judeo-Christian country, and the US has no official religion. Let's put it this way, I don't care what religion you are - but if you insist on trying to make laws that favor one religion over another, you have lost my vote and support. I will not vote for anyone who believes that the entire nation should follow Muslim law, or Christian law, or Jewish law, or any other religious based law. Anyone who believes otherwise has no understanding of the Constitution or freedom of religion. You can't impose religious laws without getting in the way of other people's religious freedom. If you want to live in a country based on religious laws - any religious laws - you should move. But, I have no problem voting for anyone of any religion who truly believes in freedom of religion and opposes religious laws in any form.



The thing is that whatever leaders are elected for Congress or the Senate they will vote according to their beliefs. The Supreme Court Judges do that in their decision making which is why Trump wanted certain people on there who will vote against abortion, which is one of the beliefs of the Catholics and Christians. So they don't come out and say it is because of their religion that they vote that way, but actually their religion has shaped their beliefs and effects how they will vote. The same with the death penalty if the Judge or Congressman believes in the "thou shalt not kill" commandment, he/she will not render decisions that will result in death for the person whose case is before him.


gina - 12/12/2018 at 11:43 PM

quote:
A few people have posted right here on the WP in no uncertain terms that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to hold public office in the US.


Yes they have and the thing is that we all know that the next world war will pit the US as a country against the countries of the Middle East which are Muslim countries. Who would an elected Congressperson or Senator vote with? Would Muslims vote to authorize wars in Iraq, Iran or other Muslim countries? One of the basic beliefs in Islam is if you kill one innocent, it is like killing all of civilization, and to kill a Muslim, how could a Muslim authorize that or vote for that?


There is a BIG difference in the beliefs of Isis and the Afghan Taliban, yet they are both Muslims. Even though the Afghans were not thrilled with Karzai or even now with Ghani, they will not kill them because they are Muslims and they believe that it is God who allows certain leaders to be put in the leadership positions so they cannot go against the will of Allah. Isis kills anyone who does not go along with them.

If a Congressperson or Senator is a Muslim and then votes for war against other Muslims, then they are siding with non-Muslims which is going against the religion. That is a BIG deal.

Muslims and Christians cannot be secularists because secular law changes to suit the people's needs and desires. Islamic Law, and Abrahamaic law which Christians go by does not change. So perhaps only secularists can be in positions of law making and law giving.

When the anti-Christ rises, for Muslims there will be worldwide jihad for they will not bow down to him or anyone else, they only report to God so they will not take orders from a man or a King or an anti-Christ.

Christians too will have to wage their war because they cannot submit to a false deity. Eventually the Christians and Muslims will have to unite and ban together to fight against the false deity. There are many sects in each religion, and there will be a holy war, like it or not, you will have to choose a side.


BrerRabbit - 12/13/2018 at 12:35 AM

quote:
There are many sects in each religion, and there will be a holy war, like it or not, you will have to choose a side.


Yeah, the outside. So of all religious sects which kind of sects do you prefer?


2112 - 12/13/2018 at 12:37 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Maybe it's the people who don't believe in freedom of religion that should move somewhere else......


^This

The US is not a Judeo-Christian country, and the US has no official religion. Let's put it this way, I don't care what religion you are - but if you insist on trying to make laws that favor one religion over another, you have lost my vote and support. I will not vote for anyone who believes that the entire nation should follow Muslim law, or Christian law, or Jewish law, or any other religious based law. Anyone who believes otherwise has no understanding of the Constitution or freedom of religion. You can't impose religious laws without getting in the way of other people's religious freedom. If you want to live in a country based on religious laws - any religious laws - you should move. But, I have no problem voting for anyone of any religion who truly believes in freedom of religion and opposes religious laws in any form.



The thing is that whatever leaders are elected for Congress or the Senate they will vote according to their beliefs. The Supreme Court Judges do that in their decision making which is why Trump wanted certain people on there who will vote against abortion, which is one of the beliefs of the Catholics and Christians. So they don't come out and say it is because of their religion that they vote that way, but actually their religion has shaped their beliefs and effects how they will vote. The same with the death penalty if the Judge or Congressman believes in the "thou shalt not kill" commandment, he/she will not render decisions that will result in death for the person whose case is before him.




That's not always the case. John Kerry was Catholic yet he supported abortion rights. Bernie Sanders is Jewish, yet he doesn't give blanket support toward Isreal. It purely depends on the individual.


JimSheridan - 12/13/2018 at 01:53 AM

In the 1800s and early 1900s, there was great suspicion of Catholics. Would a Catholic politician put his country first, or would he show loyalty to the Pope? This fear of papists does persist in some ways; we have only had one Catholic president.

If we only allowed atheists to be presidents, this would not be an issue. lol.


gina - 12/28/2018 at 12:03 AM

Religion's influence on early government of the U.S. and a current day Congressional Representative wants to eb sworn into office on Thomas Jefferson"s Quran. But the U.S. does not adhere to the things in the Quran.


https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/12/muslim-rep-rashida-tlaib-to-be-sworn-in- on-jeffersons-quran-muslims-were-there-at-the-beginning



BrerRabbit - 12/28/2018 at 02:14 AM

You posted your link without reading the article - you guys do this constantly, posting links to headlines that you like, expecting us to read stuff you don't even read.Tiresome.

from your link:

"Jefferson owned a Qur’an because he understood that one must know one’s enemy in order to know how to defeat him".

The article goes on to explain how Jefferson went to war against Muslim Barbary Coast extortionists.

I would add that enlightened educated freethinkers of that era, or any era, are likely to have copies of world classics in their libraries. Jefferson probably owned a Bhagavad Gita too.



[Edited on 12/28/2018 by BrerRabbit]


gina - 12/29/2018 at 09:15 PM

quote:
You posted your link without reading the article - you guys do this constantly, posting links to headlines that you like, expecting us to read stuff you don't even read.Tiresome.

from your link:

"Jefferson owned a Qur’an because he understood that one must know one’s enemy in order to know how to defeat him".

The article goes on to explain how Jefferson went to war against Muslim Barbary Coast extortionists.

I would add that enlightened educated freethinkers of that era, or any era, are likely to have copies of world classics in their libraries. Jefferson probably owned a Bhagavad Gita too.

[Edited on 12/28/2018 by BrerRabbit]


I read the article and I am aware the Jefferson used it to try to defeat his enemies. My point is that the US was founded by people who were not of the Muslim faith, they were Protestants, Quakers and others. The left their European homelands because of what they believed was religious persecution and a tyrannical govt. who they believed was over-taxing them. The founders of this country were of another religion and they framed the Bill Of Rights, the Declaration of Independence and Constitution of this country based on tenets from the Christian book beliefs. When a Congressional Representative wants to swear allegiance to a different religion and represent a Christian founded country people should question which laws she will adhere to, and how her religious views will impact her voting, creating bills that become laws in this country. I really would not like to see caning or flogging become a law here because it is in the Shariah. Would you?


2112 - 12/30/2018 at 03:55 AM

quote:
quote:
You posted your link without reading the article - you guys do this constantly, posting links to headlines that you like, expecting us to read stuff you don't even read.Tiresome.

from your link:

"Jefferson owned a Qur’an because he understood that one must know one’s enemy in order to know how to defeat him".

The article goes on to explain how Jefferson went to war against Muslim Barbary Coast extortionists.

I would add that enlightened educated freethinkers of that era, or any era, are likely to have copies of world classics in their libraries. Jefferson probably owned a Bhagavad Gita too.

[Edited on 12/28/2018 by BrerRabbit]


I read the article and I am aware the Jefferson used it to try to defeat his enemies. My point is that the US was founded by people who were not of the Muslim faith, they were Protestants, Quakers and others. The left their European homelands because of what they believed was religious persecution and a tyrannical govt. who they believed was over-taxing them. The founders of this country were of another religion and they framed the Bill Of Rights, the Declaration of Independence and Constitution of this country based on tenets from the Christian book beliefs. When a Congressional Representative wants to swear allegiance to a different religion and represent a Christian founded country people should question which laws she will adhere to, and how her religious views will impact her voting, creating bills that become laws in this country. I really would not like to see caning or flogging become a law here because it is in the Shariah. Would you?


Stop trying to say that the US was a Christian founded country, because it wasn't. Some of the founding fathers were Christian, but many weren't. Many of the founding fathers were Deist, which is actually close to my personal religious beliefs. Founding Fathers who were Deist included Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, and Ethan Allen. You might notice that these names include arguably those most responsible for writing the constitution.


BrerRabbit - 12/30/2018 at 06:53 AM

Good post sang. Nailed it. Vive l'ère des lumières!


gina - 1/5/2019 at 09:17 PM

What is a Deist? Please tell us more, I never heard of this.


2112 - 1/5/2019 at 09:48 PM

quote:
What is a Deist? Please tell us more, I never heard of this.


You can Google it to find more, but basically Deist believe that there is one God and that God created the universe using natural processes. However, God does not intervene with the world today. It was a very popular religion during the age of enlightenment and among freethinkers in early America.

Deist reject religion based on books that claiming to be the revealed word of God.

Deist reject religious dogma and demagogy..

Deist's reject prophecies and miracles.


BrerRabbit - 1/5/2019 at 11:59 PM

quote:
It was a very popular religion during the age of enlightenment and among freethinkers in early America.


As well as Europe - these rationalists were responsible for the French and American revolutions, and built the foundation for modern Western thought. Democracy as we know it never would have come about under a worldview of superstition and ignorance.


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