Thread: General Motors Closing Plants Cutting Jobs

nebish - 11/27/2018 at 02:11 PM

quote:
GM to slash 14,700 jobs in North America


DETROIT (AP) — General Motors will lay off 14,700 factory and white-collar workers in North America and put five plants up for possible closure as it restructures to cut costs and focus more on autonomous and electric vehicles.

The reduction includes 8,100 white-collar workers, some of whom will take buyouts and others who will be laid off. Most of the affected factories build cars that won't be sold in the U.S. after next year. They could close or they could get different vehicles to build. They will be part of contract talks with the United Auto Workers union next year.

Plants without products include assembly plants in Detroit; Lordstown, Ohio; and Oshawa, Ontario. Also affected are transmission factories in Warren, Michigan, as well as Baltimore.

More than 6,000 factory workers could lose jobs in the U.S. and Canada, although some could transfer to truck and SUV plants.

GM, the largest automaker in the U.S. and includes the Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC brands, said the moves will save $6 billion in cash by the end of next year, including $4.5 billion in recurring annual cost reductions and a $1.5 billion reduction in capital spending.

Those cuts are in addition to $6.5 billion that the company has announced by the end of this year.

GM doesn't foresee an economic downturn and is making the cuts "to get in front of it while the company is strong and while the economy is strong," CEO Mary Barra told reporters.

Barra said GM is still hiring people with expertise in software and electric and autonomous vehicles, and many of those who will lose their jobs are now working on conventional cars with internal combustion engines.

Barra said the industry is changing rapidly and moving toward electric propulsion, autonomous vehicles and ride-sharing, and GM must adjust with it.

The factories up for possible closure are part of GM's effort "to right-size our capacity for the realities of the marketplace," as consumers shift away from cars to trucks and SUVs.

The company, she said, has invested in newer architectures for trucks and SUVs so it can cut capital spending while still raising investment in autonomous and electric vehicles.

The salaried reductions amount to 15 percent of GM's North American workforce out of 54,000. At the factories, 3,000 workers could lose jobs in Canada and another 3,600 in the U.S. Some U.S. workers would transfer to truck and SUV plants where GM is increasing output, the company said.

GM has offered buyouts to 18,000 retirement-eligible workers with a dozen or more years of service. It would not say how many have accepted the buyouts, but it was short of the company's target because GM said there will be white-collar layoffs.

The company expects to take a pretax charge of $3 billion to $3.8 billion due to the actions, including up to $1.8 billion of asset write downs and pension charges. The charges will take place in the fourth quarter of 2018 and the first quarter of next year.

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2018/11/gm-to-slash-14700-jobs-in-north- america-lordstown-plant-faces-closure.html




The local GM plant here is among those that will idle on March 1st. The plant currently runs just a single shift employing about 1500 workers. At the end of 2010 this plant was running full steam with three shifts building the smaller Chevy Cruze with approximately 4500 employees.


nebish - 11/27/2018 at 02:12 PM

GM's stock was up 4.79% on the news.


nebish - 11/27/2018 at 02:37 PM

They are eliminating the Chevy Cruze (Lordstown), Cadillac CT6 (Detroit/Hamtramck), Cadillac XTS (Oshawa Canada), Chevy Impalla (Oshawa Canada and Detroit/Hamtramck), Chevy Volt (Detroit/Hamtramck) and Buick LaCrosse (Detroit/Hamtramck). The Warren Michigan plant is a transmission plant for now discontinued cars, but also for the current line of Acadias and Malibus. The Baltimore plant builds the Allison transmissions used in 2500 and 3500 series pickup trucks.


This while they newly announced Blazer will be built in Mexico, where the Terrain and Equinox are also built and the Buick Envision is built in China among other vehicles GM brings in from Korea. Can't bring those vehicles here and employ US workers for those. Nope.

I don't fault GM eliminating certain models and plants due to declining sales of some models. What I have a problem with growing foreign production while there are plants here and people here that could build those cars. If they want to discontinue models made here, they should build new or other models in those facilities.



StratDal - 11/27/2018 at 03:53 PM

It's a shame the Volt is being discontinued. It's very popular here in California.

I wasn't aware so many models were built out of the US.


2112 - 11/27/2018 at 04:34 PM

You are going to see more production moving outside of the US to avoid tariffs. The tariffs on imported steel and aluminum have really hurt the automotive industry, plus retaliatory tariffs on the vehicles if they are exported. Much of this is directly related to unintended consequences from the Trump tariffs. Not to mention higher labor costs in the US, there has never been a worse time to build autos in the USA.


BIGV - 11/27/2018 at 04:37 PM

quote:
You are going to see more production moving outside of the US to avoid tariffs. The tariffs on imported steel and aluminum have really hurt the automotive industry, plus retaliatory tariffs on the vehicles if they are exported. Much of this is directly related to unintended consequences from the Trump tariffs. Not to mention higher labor costs in the US, there has never been a worse time to build autos in the USA.


Perhaps a change in the Paradigm would be beneficial. Perhaps U.S. auto makers could start producing vehicles people are proud to own, good looking cars that speak to youth. Cars that are dependable and not shabbily produced.

How many people here own an American CAR?...Not truck.


leafsfan - 11/27/2018 at 05:30 PM

quote:
Perhaps a change in the Paradigm would be beneficial. Perhaps U.S. auto makers could start producing vehicles people are proud to own, good looking cars that speak to youth. Cars that are dependable and not shabbily produced.

How many people here own an American CAR?...Not truck.


People have been saying that for years and nothing changes at GM or Ford. Also producing Impala's for my 75 year old father in law is getting them no where.

Another fault is marking up the vehicles they do sell so only a few can buy them. Cost for new GM trucks are through the roof. Why not sell 1000 trucks at 45 k instead of 100 at 60 k?

Dodge is doing the same with the Jeep. Things are cheap to make but here in Canada a new 4-door jeep is 40 k.

A lot more asian cars on the road because they build them well and price them to what people can afford.


MartinD28 - 11/27/2018 at 05:35 PM

quote:
You are going to see more production moving outside of the US to avoid tariffs. The tariffs on imported steel and aluminum have really hurt the automotive industry, plus retaliatory tariffs on the vehicles if they are exported. Much of this is directly related to unintended consequences from the Trump tariffs. Not to mention higher labor costs in the US, there has never been a worse time to build autos in the USA.


Looks like free trader, Larry Kudlow is having enormous control over Trump with sound economic policies Kudlow must have to tuck his tail every time he sits in on economic strategy meetings with Trump.

For someone who boasts so much about his intelligence and business acumen, Trump has shown he is nothing more than a neophyte when it comes to what is best for America via his tariffs. He is hurting the people who voted for him.


cyclone88 - 11/27/2018 at 10:03 PM

quote:
For someone who boasts so much about his intelligence and business acumen, Trump has shown he is nothing more than a neophyte when it comes to what is best for America via his tariffs. He is hurting the people who voted for him.


And they don't seem to care as long as people like Kavanaugh get a lifetime appointment, Saudi Arabia's killer MBS remain Jared's bank & we're protected from imminent invasion via central America.


Chain - 11/27/2018 at 10:22 PM

quote:
It's a shame the Volt is being discontinued. It's very popular here in California.

I wasn't aware so many models were built out of the US.


The Volt is an impressive machine and was years ahead of its time when it debuted some years ago. However, while the actual model may be discontinued, its technology and the lessons GM engineers and designers learned from its production and continued improvements over its lifetime will be incorporated into the numerous completely new pure electric and hybrid vehicles GM has already announced it will be producing within a few short years.

So in essence the name "Volt" may disappear, but its technology will not. In fact, the Chevy CUV known as the "Bolt" is just such an example. It's basically a Chevy Volt in the body of the Chevy Trax small cross over vehicle (CUV) with the option of AWD....Just a hybrid rather than a pure internal combustion only vehicle currently in the Trax.....

What I am hoping for soon is a GM Sierra full size pick-up with Volt technology....That would be very cool. Especially if built in the USA and as mentioned above, didn't cost as much as a small house. 60K for a well equipped pick up truck seems to be the norm and is , frankly, absurd and way too pricey.

[Edited on 11/27/2018 by Chain]


BIGV - 11/27/2018 at 10:29 PM

quote:
Also producing Impala's for my 75 year old father in law is getting them no where.


This is definitely the President's fault!


Chain - 11/27/2018 at 10:33 PM

quote:
quote:
You are going to see more production moving outside of the US to avoid tariffs. The tariffs on imported steel and aluminum have really hurt the automotive industry, plus retaliatory tariffs on the vehicles if they are exported. Much of this is directly related to unintended consequences from the Trump tariffs. Not to mention higher labor costs in the US, there has never been a worse time to build autos in the USA.


Looks like free trader, Larry Kudlow is having enormous control over Trump with sound economic policies Kudlow must have to tuck his tail every time he sits in on economic strategy meetings with Trump.

For someone who boasts so much about his intelligence and business acumen, Trump has shown he is nothing more than a neophyte when it comes to what is best for America via his tariffs. He is hurting the people who voted for him.


Indeed....Trump proves practically daily that he has no business acumen nor even basic knowledge of micro or macro economics. He's a con man who's Daddy left him and his siblings a lot of money. Much of which Trump managed to lose whenever he actually attempted to start and operate a business on his own. Once Fred trump was dead and gone and no longer able to bail little Donnie out at every turn, he turned to other, more seedy individuals. And we all know who they are....


tbomike - 11/27/2018 at 11:05 PM

quote:
quote:
Also producing Impala's for my 75 year old father in law is getting them no where.


This is definitely the President's fault!


The man said this and this is a direct quote.

Trump to Warren, MI in 2016: “If I’m elected, you won’t lose one plant, you’ll have plants coming into this country, you’re going to have jobs again, you won’t lose one plant.”


2112 - 11/27/2018 at 11:27 PM

quote:
quote:
Also producing Impala's for my 75 year old father in law is getting them no where.


This is definitely the President's fault!


Declining sales of a particular model is certainly not the president's fault, but creating an environment where plants are closing in the US and opening in other countries to avoid tariffs is. A new model could be made in those closing plants, but why would they? Steel and aluminum prices have skyrocketed in the US due to the tariffs and the car's price to foreign markets is now higher due to the increased material costs AND retaliatory tariffs. Add to that higher labor costs (that part isn't the President's fault), and the death nail has been dealt to the auto industry just a few years after the automotive industry seemed to have recovered.


2112 - 11/27/2018 at 11:33 PM

It also shows that decreasing fuel standards did nothing to help the automotive industry. It also shows that decreasing taxes was not particularly effective in keeping jobs in the US. Cheap materials is far more important when it comes to profits, and the cost effectiveness of operating plants in the US.


MartinD28 - 11/28/2018 at 12:43 AM

quote:
Cheap materials is far more important when it comes to profits, and the cost effectiveness of operating plants in the US.


That and cheaper labor is why first daughter, senior advisor, and true patriot Ivanka Trump produces most of her lines not in Ohio but in foreign countries.

I'm not sure why Republicans give Trump & family a carte blanche pass on the so called America First thing when the Trumps should lead by example. But the Republicans seem to give the Trumps a pass on everything. Deliver conservative judges, and all is OK.


gina - 11/28/2018 at 12:48 AM

quote:
They are eliminating the Chevy Cruze (Lordstown), Cadillac CT6 (Detroit/Hamtramck), Cadillac XTS (Oshawa Canada), Chevy Impalla (Oshawa Canada and Detroit/Hamtramck), Chevy Volt (Detroit/Hamtramck) and Buick LaCrosse (Detroit/Hamtramck). The Warren Michigan plant is a transmission plant for now discontinued cars, but also for the current line of Acadias and Malibus. The Baltimore plant builds the Allison transmissions used in 2500 and 3500 series pickup trucks.


This while they newly announced Blazer will be built in Mexico, where the Terrain and Equinox are also built and the Buick Envision is built in China among other vehicles GM brings in from Korea. Can't bring those vehicles here and employ US workers for those. Nope.

I don't fault GM eliminating certain models and plants due to declining sales of some models. What I have a problem with growing foreign production while there are plants here and people here that could build those cars. If they want to discontinue models made here, they should build new or other models in those facilities.





https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/26/business/gm-cars-dropping-production/index.h tml

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/27/opinions/trump-general-motors-economic-cost- weinberg/index.html





[Edited on 11/28/2018 by gina]


2112 - 11/28/2018 at 01:23 AM

quote:
quote:
Cheap materials is far more important when it comes to profits, and the cost effectiveness of operating plants in the US.


That and cheaper labor is why first daughter, senior advisor, and true patriot Ivanka Trump produces most of her lines not in Ohio but in foreign countries.

I'm not sure why Republicans give Trump & family a carte blanche pass on the so called America First thing when the Trumps should lead by example. But the Republicans seem to give the Trumps a pass on everything. Deliver conservative judges, and all is OK.


You make it too simple. There are 3 types of Trump fans.

1. The rich Trump fan who likes him for cutting taxes.

2. The religious Trump fan who likes Trump for his conservative court picks.

3. The typical Trump fan who likes Trump because he dislikes the same people as they do, and also because Liberals hate him.


sckeys - 11/28/2018 at 01:29 AM

He will find somebody to blame. We can bet on that.


2112 - 11/28/2018 at 01:39 AM

quote:
He will find somebody to blame. We can bet on that.


He already has - The Fed.

He is a pro at taking all the credit when there is any good news at all, and any bad news is always somebody else's fault. Always.


nebish - 11/28/2018 at 03:06 AM

quote:
It's a shame the Volt is being discontinued. It's very popular here in California.

I wasn't aware so many models were built out of the US.


GM has so many US vehicles across so many brands it is a lengthy list:

Chevy BoltEV - Michigan
Chevy Camaro - Michigan (same as the Cadillac CTS and ATS)
Chevy Colorado - Missouri (same as the GMC Canyon)
Chevy Corvette - Kentucky
Chevy Cruze - Ohio (discontinued - Lordstown plant idling)
Chevy Equinox - Mexico and Canada (same as the GMC Terrain)
Chevy Impala - Canada (same as the Cadillac XTS)(discontinued - Oshawa plant idling)
Chevy Impala - Michigan (same as the Cadillac CT6) (discontinued - Hamtramck plant idling)(CT6 production may move to another plant)
Chevy Malibu - Kansas (same as Cadillac XT4)
Chevy Silverado - Canada, Indiana, Michigan, Mexico (same as GMC Sierra)(Oshawa plant idling truck production to be absorbed by Indiana)
Chevy Sonic - Michigan (still available previously announced discontinued)
Chevy Spark - South Korea
Chevy Tahoe - Texas (same as the GMC Yukon and Cadillac Escalade)
Chevy Trax - South Korea and Mexico
Chevy Volt - Michigan (discontinued - Hamtramck plant idling)

Buick Regal - Germany
Buick LaCrosse - Michigan (discontinued - Hamtramck plant idling)
Buick Cascada - Poland
Buick Enclave - Michigan
Buick Encore - Korea
Buick Envision - China

Cadillac XT5 - Tennessee (same as GMC Acadia)

It's a lot of vehicles!

Some of these plants do export from here to the world. Such at the Arlington Texas plant being the only producer of Tahoes, Yukons and Escalades. Formerly these vehicles were also built in Mexico and Russia, but now they consolidated to Texas. Then outside of North America, Chevy has several other plants around the globe to service regional markets. For instance GM has 5 major plants in China that build 18 models, some unique to that market and some models that are sold here. GM also has major plants in South Korea, Thailand, South America just to name a few. The Chevy Cruze which was built in the plant down the road from me, was rarely exported anywhere because they also built the Cruze in Mexico, China, Russia, Vietnam among other locations. The Malibu is built in Kansas, but then also China and South Korea. If you buy a Malibu in North, South or Central America it probably comes out of Kansas. Anywhere else it is probably coming from Asia.

I've talked to people that think if you are buying, say a Lincoln it is built in the US, which alot of people just don't think about it. Lincoln's MKC is built in the US. Their MKZ is built in Canada.

I try to go to the Cleveland Auto Show every year. I remarked on here that looking at the vehicles on display that Kia actually had more cars there that were built in the US than Buick did.

Different parts of the country seem to have a different mix of vehicles I've noticed. Around here there are a TON of Buick Encores. They went from selling 32k in 2013 to 49k in 2014, to 67,5xx, to 78,5xx, to 88k and this year is on pace for about 5,000 more units than 2017. All from Korea. But hey Grandma is driving around in a Buick. It is by far Buick's #1 seller in the US. Their #2 seller is the larger Enclave that is built in Michigan at the same plant as the Chevy Traverse. Then Buick's #3 seller is the Envision...from China, they sold 41,040 of them here last year. All from China. If you add up all the foreign built Buicks sold in the US last year, about 150k of their 219k total units which makes roughly 68%.

[Edited on 11/28/2018 by nebish]


nebish - 11/28/2018 at 03:18 AM

quote:
You are going to see more production moving outside of the US to avoid tariffs. The tariffs on imported steel and aluminum have really hurt the automotive industry, plus retaliatory tariffs on the vehicles if they are exported. Much of this is directly related to unintended consequences from the Trump tariffs. Not to mention higher labor costs in the US, there has never been a worse time to build autos in the USA.


Raising any input cost does to some degree or another impact the overall cost, competitiveness and pricing of the product.

But I don't think you would say that it is always bad to raise the cost of something in order to achieve an objective, would you? I mean if we wanted, to raise wage and benefits - that has an impact on cost, competitiveness and pricing of goods and services. Or if we wanted to impose costs on manufacturers for regulatory requirements...that is an input cost that effects how companies.

Or looking at other angle, raising the gas tax. Is raising the gas tax bad if the goal is to fund something meaningful with that added tax revenue?

The problem isn't that the US imposed steel and aluminum tariffs to sustain that industry here. No. The problem is the US hasn't imposed enough tariffs across the board. Corporations are going to do what is in their best interest. They do not merely exist as job centers for our population to find work at. So as corporations do as they must for a variety of reasons, they try and cut costs and outsourcing and offshoring allows them to do that. So let's remove that incentive. If GM faced a 100% tariff on autos exported to the US do you really think they would have decided to build the new Chevy Blazer in Mexico? Absolutely not.

We don't know yet if any of these plants will get new models next year. Hopefully they do. If not, if GM is going to build new models outside the US for sale here, with the production capacity and the workforce that they just turned their back on, then they should be punished. It's not that they should be punished for simply discontinuing cars that were declining in sales. That is the right thing for them to do. It is what they replace those sales with and what they create and build here that matters.


[Edited on 11/28/2018 by nebish]


nebish - 11/28/2018 at 03:28 AM

quote:
quote:
You are going to see more production moving outside of the US to avoid tariffs. The tariffs on imported steel and aluminum have really hurt the automotive industry, plus retaliatory tariffs on the vehicles if they are exported. Much of this is directly related to unintended consequences from the Trump tariffs. Not to mention higher labor costs in the US, there has never been a worse time to build autos in the USA.


Perhaps a change in the Paradigm would be beneficial. Perhaps U.S. auto makers could start producing vehicles people are proud to own, good looking cars that speak to youth. Cars that are dependable and not shabbily produced.

How many people here own an American CAR?...Not truck.


I have an American car, a Chevy Malibu. It is a fine car. A 2009. I'm not really proud of it, just a car. It was assembled in the US with the major components, the engine and transmission also being assembled here. I wouldn't buy anything else. I've considered other vehicles or when my wife replaces hers, I look. If it isn't assembled here and if the engine and transmission isn't from here and if the overall parts content of it are not significantly US, then I am not interested. Otherwise I have about a dozen old Jeeps. My wife drives a Tahoe. But that Malibu and my 2001 Cherokee are the primary transportation of mine.

I think what you drive does say something about you. Most people probably don't look at it that way. People make their own decisions for their own reasons. Plenty of US cars and trucks are well built and priced competitively vs imported models. If pass somebody driving an imported US or foreign car, yeah I give them a dirty look. Do they care, or even know. It doesn't matter. I know.


nebish - 11/28/2018 at 03:34 AM

quote:
quote:
Perhaps a change in the Paradigm would be beneficial. Perhaps U.S. auto makers could start producing vehicles people are proud to own, good looking cars that speak to youth. Cars that are dependable and not shabbily produced.

How many people here own an American CAR?...Not truck.


People have been saying that for years and nothing changes at GM or Ford. Also producing Impala's for my 75 year old father in law is getting them no where.

Another fault is marking up the vehicles they do sell so only a few can buy them. Cost for new GM trucks are through the roof. Why not sell 1000 trucks at 45 k instead of 100 at 60 k?

Dodge is doing the same with the Jeep. Things are cheap to make but here in Canada a new 4-door jeep is 40 k.

A lot more asian cars on the road because they build them well and price them to what people can afford.


There is no reason for anyone to lower the price of Chevy Trucks or Jeeps..because they are selling record numbers of them. In October Jeep Wrangler sales YTD surpassed all the Wranglers sold in 2015 and there are still 2 months of sales to log yet. Sales and demand for SUVs and trucks are no problem. Lowering the prices would likely yield minimal additional sales...which is why the opposite has been happening. They raise the prices and people keep beating down the door to buy them.


sckeys - 11/28/2018 at 03:49 AM

I used to do the advertising photos at a local GM dealer and they had a lot of vehicles being built in Mexico ten years ago. I do wonder how much of the slow wage growth is due to automation.


BIGV - 11/28/2018 at 05:25 PM

How much of the average Joe's Tax dollar goes toward subsidizing this floundering whale?


BrerRabbit - 11/28/2018 at 06:15 PM

Cars are basically just a means to consume oil. Any car domestic or foreign, keeps the oil-based economy rolling. The initial cost of a car is just the tip of the iceberg - that machine generates plenty moolah for the country. Next time you give a dirty look at someone driving a beat up Toyota, remember they gotta fillerup too.


Muleman1994 - 11/28/2018 at 09:26 PM

GM, aka Greed Inc., is suffering from poor management and a line of cars people do not want.

All the crap about tariffs and "alternative energy" cars is a diversion from the reality of an inadequately run company, bad designs and technology which is lagging behind their competitors.

GM problem is self-inflicted.





Sang - 11/28/2018 at 09:44 PM

Not true at all - as usual. My family has always had GM cars - I am on my second Equinox and love it.....

My wife has a Trax, my boys have Impalas, and my daughter has a Sonic. All have been good solid cars.


sckeys - 11/28/2018 at 10:08 PM

Saudi is providing plenty of jobs, likely in the trillions by now, so this shouldn’t be an issue so sayeth the Repubs.


Muleman1994 - 11/28/2018 at 10:18 PM

quote:
Not true at all - as usual. My family has always had GM cars - I am on my second Equinox and love it.....

My wife has a Trax, my boys have Impalas, and my daughter has a Sonic. All have been good solid cars.



If their cars are so good why are their sales so bad?
What excuse are you using for GMs layoffs and plant closings?


Sang - 11/28/2018 at 11:04 PM

Trump tariffs is part of it ...... has nothing to do with the quality of the cars - I think all car dealers are having issues.....


Sang - 11/28/2018 at 11:05 PM

Ford also dropped sedans at the end of the second quarter - it's not just GM


sckeys - 11/28/2018 at 11:36 PM

The Chrysler dealer here told me a few years ago that the cars on his lot were just about wasted space as his business was the truck/SUV sales.


MartinD28 - 11/28/2018 at 11:40 PM

quote:
How much of the average Joe's Tax dollar goes toward subsidizing this floundering whale?


How much of the average Joe's tax dollar should go toward paying for Trump's beautiful wall - you know - the same one he campaigned on ad nauseum insisting that Mexico would pay for the wall. You know - the same wall that "President Donald Trump would "totally be willing" to shut down the federal government if Congress does not approve $5 billion for construction of a wall along the U.S.-Mexican border, he said during an Oval Office interview with Politico."


Muleman1994 - 11/29/2018 at 12:36 AM

quote:
Ford also dropped sedans at the end of the second quarter - it's not just GM


Ford adapted to a changing market, closed no plants and hired more workers.


nebish - 11/29/2018 at 01:44 AM

quote:
Trump tariffs is part of it ...... has nothing to do with the quality of the cars - I think all car dealers are having issues.....


quote:
Ford also dropped sedans at the end of the second quarter - it's not just GM


quote:
The Chrysler dealer here told me a few years ago that the cars on his lot were just about wasted space as his business was the truck/SUV sales.


The tariffs are really not part of this decision. A $33,000-$35,000 car would see cost increases of $144-175 due to increased steel price. Just because imported steel has a 10% tariff increasing the cost, or manufacturers are forced to source higher priced US steel, as the raw material moves through the production process that cost gets spread out quite a bit. Those figures are from Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross (we'll call him biased), but also echoed by an anti-tariff and anti-protectionist market analyst firm (IHS Markit's John Mothersole).

I'm not saying that higher input costs may not have negative consequences for some companies. What we are dealing with here is declining sales on autos that the consumer is losing interest in. The decision to discontinue these slumping models has little to do with a minimal % increase of cost per auto.

Happy you buy GM products and glad you are satisfied with them. How ironic though that each model you listed is made outside the US.

People aren't buying cars right now. The auto companies are all adapting. GM probably has more excess US capacity than the other companies. If they want to cease production on these cars, fine. Just build the other ones that people do want and are buying here.

These kinds of decisions happen way in advance. GM didn't just decide this at their 2018 Q3 meeting. That is why many people are so upset that the announced the production of a new model in Mexico, when now we know, they likely already had plans to idle these plants. What should've happened is one of these now idled plants should be retooled to build that new model.

All quotes below from earlier this year when GM announced the reintroduction of the Chevy Blazer would be built in Mexico:

quote:
"On the same day GM is laying off workers in Youngstown (then Lordstown's second shift), the company is bypassing American workers and sending more jobs to Mexico. GM should reverse this irresponsible decision, and use its tax windfall to invest in American workers," said Senator Sherrod Brown


quote:
"This news that the iconic Blazer nameplate will be built in Mexico is disappointing to UAW families and communities across this country. GM employs over 15,000 production workers in Mexico, pays the workers less than $3 per hour and exports over 80% of the vehicles to the U.S. to sell here. This is all happening while UAW-GM workers here in the U.S are laid off and unemployed. We in the UAW have always supported products manufactured and produced in the U.S. and will continue to do so as a part of the fabric of our union," said UAW President Terry Dittes.


quote:
Dear Ms. Barra,

As a Member of Congress who voted during the Great Recession to provide economic aid to embattled domestic automakers, I am very disappointed at the recent announcement by General Motors (GM) to manufacture the Chevy Blazer at the Ramos Arizpe, Mexico plant. This decision is an insult to hard-working families all across the country. Thousands of GM workers in America-including the second and third shifts at Lordstown-who have been permanently laid off are hearing the news that GM is sending jobs to Mexico instead of putting people back to work here.

General Motors had pledged to invest more than $1 billion in domestic factories and create 7,000 new jobs, which makes today's announcement more troubling, especially in conjunction with the second shift at Lordstown plant officially ending this past weekend. The men and women of our community walked out of the plant for the last time with anxiety and concern for the future, and woke up recently to learn that GM is creating jobs in Mexico.

In response to the elimination of the second shift, your statement said that "we're working hard to get additional business for the complex." This morning's announcement proves that while there is plenty of investment in the 15,000 production workers in Mexico - and their sub-par wages of less than $3 per hour-more can and should be done by GM to position the Lordstown plant for next 20 years. As GM employees around the country are being laid off, I am requesting an explanation for this decision and urging GM to reconsider and bring the jobs back to the United States.

The men and women of my district are ready to go back to work, and I stand ready to support GM in promoting domestic job creation. I appreciate your attention to this matter, and I look forward to your response outlining the reasons behind this decision. Should you have any questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to contact me or my staff anytime.

Sincerely,
Tim Ryan
Member of Congress



2112 - 11/29/2018 at 02:12 AM

It would be nice if GM used their tax windfall to keep those jobs in the US, but unfortunately the new tax law wasn't set up in a way to encourage that. That said, it is seems rediculous that Trump is throwing a fit about this when he and his family continue to manufacture their products in China (and set everything up so that their families products do not face tariffs).


Muleman1994 - 11/29/2018 at 02:20 AM

quote:
It would be nice if GM used their tax windfall to keep those jobs in the US, but unfortunately the new tax law wasn't set up in a way to encourage that. That said, it is seems rediculous that Trump is throwing a fit about this when he and his family continue to manufacture their products in China (and set everything up so that their families products do not face tariffs).



Obama's tax money bailout for GM lacked any stipulations that GM build and hire American. Obama's wanted what turned out to be the Volt which Gm is now discontinuing due to lack of sales.

"The new tax law" had nothing to do with bailing out GM's incompetent management.

The rest of your post is your typical ignorant rant about something that has nothing to do with the GMs failures.


nebish - 11/29/2018 at 02:43 AM

quote:
It would be nice if GM used their tax windfall to keep those jobs in the US, but unfortunately the new tax law wasn't set up in a way to encourage that. That said, it is seems rediculous that Trump is throwing a fit about this when he and his family continue to manufacture their products in China (and set everything up so that their families products do not face tariffs).


I 100% agree with your feelings about the Trump family products and have always and will always say that.

And I also agree, corporations have armies of lawyers and tax analysts so they can fully maximize their returns and minimize their expenses, which taxes are one. The old system, foreign profits earned and held overseas were not taxed at all. So while the tax on foreign earnings is less than that on domestic earnings, it is an improvement still and overall the corporate tax reform bill made operating and earning profit inside the US more attractive than it had been - so that is an incentive. I think corporations will be capitalizing on any and every advantage they see, some of that will be here and some of that will be there. I would certainly personally prefer more of it to be here and would not give any preferential treatment to foreign earnings vs domestic earnings, but I must acknowledge that there may have been good reason to help US businesses compete abroad with the lower rate.

The US has sweetened the incentive to be here. For those that don't want to come (or stay) and sell their goods here, there are different ways to also incentivize that (or penalize them not doing so).


nebish - 11/29/2018 at 03:45 AM

Here are some figures for thought.

This was on a CNBC graphic - 2017 US auto sales = 17.23 million
Sales by where built:
US 56%
Mexico 12.5%
Canada 11.6%
Japan 9.3%
Europe 6.7%
Korea 4.9%

56% of 17.23 million is 9,648,800
44% is 7,581,200

The trade.gov link at the bottom of this post says 2017 saw 8,271,840 units imported (passenger and light truck)(231,901 medium and heavy trucks imported).

US Exports of passenger vehicle and light trucks for 2017 was 1,983,979 and I'm not sure how medium and heavy trucks get factored in (commercial vehicles), but we can state those here as 129,575. A January 2018 Automotive News article stated exports to be 1.4 million.

Whichever source is used, be it 7.5mill or 8.2mill, there is quite a disparity on the number of autos imported into the US and the number exported, 1.9mill or 1.4mill.

Foreign producers are more dependent on sales here than US producers are dependent on foreign sales.

https://www.trade.gov/td/otm/autostats.asp


Muleman1994 - 11/29/2018 at 04:01 AM

An interesting informed opinion:

Don't blame Donald Trump's tariffs for GM layoffs
https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/editorials/2018/11/28/president-donald- trump-gm-tariffs/2128278002/


nebish - 11/29/2018 at 04:22 AM

quote:
An interesting informed opinion:

Don't blame Donald Trump's tariffs for GM layoffs
https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/editorials/2018/11/28/president-donald- trump-gm-tariffs/2128278002/




That is a good contribution to the thread.

A couple things that popped in my mind reading it. With Chrysler, Ford and now GM reducing or abandoning car production, that is definitely going to hand more sales in that segment to the foreign brands.

We and they say things like "nobody is buying cars". That isn't exactly factual. There are still alot of people buying cars, just not enough to justify their production based on volume and margins.

The Impala for instance, US sales were 44,000 in the first 3 quarters this year. The Cruze they sold 110,000 US. Now for perspective the high water mark for the Cruze was 2014 when they sold over 273k. And the Impala has declined every year since 2010's 172k.

Chevy still has some cars in their portfolio, but the people who are still interested in buying cars are going to buy cars, they just aren't going to be buying the discontinued nameplates. Those sales are going to go do somebody.

I also think that with all the assembly and production plant talk, I have overlooked the 8,000 while collar jobs. Some of those definitely could be management at the plants, but some must be in engineering and other office type jobs. That is concerning because GM can do R&D or accounting anywhere, so they could be getting rid of some of that work to offshore. Another big concern that isn't getting as much attention.

A final thing I thought about when they were talking about what could, if anything swing people back to cars and they mention an oil embargo or a large gas tax. While large trucks and SUVs are very popular, take a closer look at alot of the SUVs you see on the road. And if you want to go one step further, take a look at some of the engines they are offering. Very small displacement 4 and 6 cylinders with active fuel management on V8s to make those engines run with less fuel when they can. Heck, what Ford has been doing with their small engines, fuel economy and still producing power is pretty amazing.

So the movement is towards trucks and SUVs, many of the ones on the road now are different than they were 10 years ago and alot different than what we had out there 20+ years ago.


nebish - 11/29/2018 at 04:26 AM

Another thing before I run off here, a lighter note, I can probably understand why GM has to save some money because they apparently have plowed it all into their holiday advertising budget! Are you all seeing that same annoying commercial over and over where the couple goes outside and the guy gets a his and hers truck and SUV, the truck was supposed to be for him but the girl loves it. The last 2 weeks I must've seen that commercial well over 100 times. Now I watch alot of TV right now with football season, still I think anyone even just watching TV occasionally would be getting blasted with that commercial. You all seeing it?


Sang - 11/30/2018 at 05:12 AM

Yes - I hate that commercial - it is on all the time......

Saw an article today that blamed a lot on the republican tax plan - makes it beneficial for companies to have assets in other countries.....


nebish - 11/30/2018 at 01:39 PM

I have no problem with anyone criticizing the President for his statements or lack of effective leadership.

Two things related to the steel/aluminum tariffs and the tax plan regarding this GM news. I know opponents of the President and his policies will make any and every attempt to link economic problems to this administrations actions, but I think it is important to remember that this was a global restructuring plan announced by GM. They are deallocating a plant in Canada and their official press release states they will cease operations at two additional plants outside of North America by the end of 2019. Actions taken at facilities in Canada and around the globe have nothing to do with US imposed steel and aluminum tariffs and contradict the foreign asset holding for tax purposes argument since apparently they stand to have fewer foreign assets as a result of this announcement.

Here is the full GM official release:
https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/ en/2018/nov/1126-gm.html


BIGV - 11/30/2018 at 05:50 PM

quote:
Are you all seeing that same annoying commercial over and over where the couple goes outside and the guy gets a his and hers truck and SUV, the truck was supposed to be for him but the girl loves it.


I don't watch television and will never purchase a new American Car.

GM, Ford & Chrysler are all out of step. Who under the age of 80 buys a Lincoln or a Cadillac these days?


gina - 11/30/2018 at 07:14 PM

quote:
quote:
How much of the average Joe's Tax dollar goes toward subsidizing this floundering whale?


How much of the average Joe's tax dollar should go toward paying for Trump's beautiful wall - you know - the same one he campaigned on ad nauseum insisting that Mexico would pay for the wall. You know - the same wall that "President Donald Trump would "totally be willing" to shut down the federal government if Congress does not approve $5 billion for construction of a wall along the U.S.-Mexican border, he said during an Oval Office interview with Politico."





I suggest a tax deduction for rich people to make a contribution towards building the wall, and a check off box for the rest of us on our tax returns you know where they have those "do you want to contribute $1 towards the presidential re-election campaign boxes. Let people contribute $1 or $5 or $10. They have all those boxes for people to contribute towards different charities, but the wall is vital to the security interests of this country. So let people contribute $1 or more towards building the wall. Let volunteers from former military and retired construction etc. workers be able to work on the wall, rather than just having some companies bid on building it. Let the bidding companies have oversight and exclusivity in the essential parts of the structure, but there is no reason you cannot have other volunteers who will help transport materials, remove debris etc. Make it a nationwide effort and the wall will be built.


gina - 11/30/2018 at 07:19 PM

quote:
quote:
Are you all seeing that same annoying commercial over and over where the couple goes outside and the guy gets a his and hers truck and SUV, the truck was supposed to be for him but the girl loves it.


I don't watch television and will never purchase a new American Car.

GM, Ford & Chrysler are all out of step. Who under the age of 80 buys a Lincoln or a Cadillac these days?


"Who under the age of 80 buys a Lincoln or a Cadillac these days?"

People whose parents thought those cars were status symbols, but since their parents couldn't afford them, they now buy them to show how successful they are. Sad to say it impacted a whole generation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nkxACJkqjM




Bhawk - 11/30/2018 at 07:29 PM

Used to own two Saturns. LOVED those cars and that company. If they were still around, I'd still be driving one.

Then I owned a Pontiac. LOVED it. If they were still around, I'd still be driving one.

Then I went and test drove a Toyota and a Chevrolet.

Been driving Toyotas ever since. Stuff happens, I guess.


Chain - 12/1/2018 at 12:47 AM

quote:
quote:
Are you all seeing that same annoying commercial over and over where the couple goes outside and the guy gets a his and hers truck and SUV, the truck was supposed to be for him but the girl loves it.


I don't watch television and will never purchase a new American Car.

GM, Ford & Chrysler are all out of step. Who under the age of 80 buys a Lincoln or a Cadillac these days?


They're both big hits oversees, BigV....As are, believe it or not, Buick's.....And I see a sh@t ton of Lincoln and Cadillac SUV's all over upstate, NY too...Along with Ford, GMC, and Chrysler SUV's and pickup trucks. Of course owning quality built SUV's and Trucks actually makes sense where I live given we have 6 months of winter and copious amounts of lake effect snow. Also lots of Toyota and Honda SUV's as well...Many of which are built right here in the good old USA....


nebish - 12/6/2018 at 04:11 AM

quote:
GM CEO will keep 'open mind' on plant closings, acknowledges anger

David Shepardson

4 Min Read

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - General Motors Co (GM.N) Chief Executive Mary Barra on Wednesday vowed to keep an “open mind” about the future of an Ohio plant that will lose vehicle production, but warned the Detroit automaker has excess capacity and did not suggest the company was reconsidering the plan.

Barra came under pressure from Ohio’s two U.S. senators and other lawmakers who want GM to shift production of a vehicle from Mexico or build electric vehicles at the Lordstown Assembly plant in their state that the automaker has said it intends to close.

“I want to make sure that the workforce knows that there are limitations and we do have an overcapacity across the country,” Barra said, urging workers at plants set to close to take seriously offers of GM jobs in other parts of the countries.

In a brief Reuters interview after her meetings Wednesday, she said it would be “very costly” to shift production from Mexico of the Chevrolet Blazer due to be launched in the next few days.

U.S. President Donald Trump told GM last week that the company had “better” find a new vehicle to build at the plant in Ohio, which could be crucial to his re-election chances in 2020.

Asked about Trump’s comments, Barra did not directly answer but said she understood the strong reaction in Washington.

“I understand this is something that impacts the country and I understand that there is a lot of emotion and concern about it,” Barra said.

GM said last week it would close five North American assembly plants next year and cut up to 15,000 jobs as it blames slow selling car sales for the need to restructure.

The CEO said GM planned to add other products at U.S. plants next year and that the automaker would have some jobs to fill at other Ohio facilities in 2019.

She cast the decision as critical to keep GM competitive. In the interview, she said GM wanted to “do the right thing for our employees but also make sure General Motors is strong and lean in the future.”
Slideshow (6 Images)

Senator Rob Portman said Barra made no promises about the future of the Lordstown plant in Ohio, where the soon-to-be-discontinued Chevrolet Cruze sedans are manufactured.

Barra said the plant’s ultimate status will be determined during contract talks next year with the United Auto Workers (UAW) union.

“We’re not asking for charity.” Portman said, adding the members are asking for a new product for the plant to build.

GM has come under harsh criticism from lawmakers and from President Donald Trump since Nov. 26, when the No. 1 U.S. automaker announced the biggest restructuring since its bankruptcy a decade ago.

Portman said he spoke to fellow Republican Trump on Wednesday about GM.

Barra is in Washington for meetings with lawmakers, including Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer as well as lawmakers from Ohio and Maryland. She was also expected to meet with lawmakers from Michigan on Thursday, among other meetings. After GM announced its plans, Trump threatened to eliminate subsidies for GM in retaliation.

Administration officials later said they wanted to end subsidies for electric cars in 2020 or 2021, affecting GM and other automakers.

Trump also said new auto tariffs were being studied, asserting, without evidence, that they could prevent job cuts such as those planned by GM.

The UAW has objected to GM’s plan to end production in 2019 at four U.S. plants, saying it violates commitments made during contract talks in 2015. The union has asked GM to rescind the decision and resolve the fate of the plants in talks for a new labor contract next year.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gm-restructuring/gm-ceo-meets-senator-sc humer-other-us-lawmakers-on-capitol-hill-idUSKBN1O42M2


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