Thread: Now we can impeach him - How long will it take

goldtop - 1/20/2017 at 05:17 PM

Day 1

The professor that said he would win now says he will either be impeached or step down

I can only hope he's correct again


goldtop - 1/20/2017 at 05:25 PM

To watch a sociopath liar put his hand on the bible is a sad day

We went from dignified to disgusting in a moments time

We have a disgusting pimp for a president


OriginalGoober - 1/20/2017 at 05:33 PM

Impeach? For what? Rigging elections? Getting debate questions illegally? Manipulate the press by getting to pre-review MSM articles?

Your gals behavior would have made any KGB agent proud.


jkeller - 1/20/2017 at 05:45 PM

quote:
Impeach? For what? Rigging elections? Getting debate questions illegally? Manipulate the press by getting to pre-review MSM articles?

Your gals behavior would have made any KGB agent proud.


Hillary lost. What she did isn't relevant, but I guess it is all you have.


Bhawk - 1/20/2017 at 05:53 PM

quote:
Impeach? For what? Rigging elections? Getting debate questions illegally? Manipulate the press by getting to pre-review MSM articles?

Your gals behavior would have made any KGB agent proud.


How can you impeach someone from an office she never held?

That's just weird.


OriginalGoober - 1/20/2017 at 05:53 PM

Yes HILLARY LOST. He is OUR PRESIDENT. Wishing for him to fail is like wishing the pilot misses the runway BUT we all are on the plane. I would be rooting for Hillary and Whoville-Mayor whats his name if they won.


Bhawk - 1/20/2017 at 05:56 PM

quote:
I would be rooting for Hillary and Whoville-Mayor whats his name if they won.


LOL, at least be honest. No, you wouldn't.


BIGV - 1/20/2017 at 06:32 PM

quote:
Hillary lost. What she did isn't relevant, but I guess it is all you have.


Felt the need to save this


nebish - 1/20/2017 at 09:20 PM

There is enough grey area or potential conflict of interest that cases will be made. The administration will deflect or dispel. The strength and validity of said cases yet to be determined. Impeachable? I don't know you tell me.


OriginalGoober - 1/20/2017 at 09:56 PM

Nebish, THis is a typical Trump hater response to the election results, with very derogatory name calling language sprinkled in about our next President. This is why there has been a decline in activity here, not something I posted.


pops42 - 1/20/2017 at 10:01 PM

Trump will be impeached for multiple ethics violations, and several of his staff will be facing prison sentences for various crimes.


2112 - 1/20/2017 at 10:03 PM

quote:
Trump will be impeached for multiple ethics violations, and several of his staff will be facing prison sentences for various crimes.


But the GOP holds both houses on congress for at least 2 years. Kind of early to consider impeachment.


Dan - 1/20/2017 at 10:22 PM

not fast enough!!!


pops42 - 1/20/2017 at 10:27 PM

quote:
quote:
Trump will be impeached for multiple ethics violations, and several of his staff will be facing prison sentences for various crimes.


But the GOP holds both houses on congress for at least 2 years. Kind of early to consider impeachment.
True, but id say within 18 months if the press and the people hold their feet to the fire [congress] I'm sure the pitchforks will come out, when trump voters realize he won't /can't deliver what he ran on. and trump can't help being trump.


goldtop - 1/21/2017 at 04:34 AM

Treason would be the first reason

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNa2B5zHfbQ

See when you ask a foreign government to interfere and then they do that's an act of treason

I believe his campaign was closely connected to Russia....The man has a fascination with the country and its leader....

2 of his wives come from that part of the world....his daughter has a very "Slavic" first name....he ran his miss universe pageant there

There is a connection and it will be brought out to light....its just a matter of time


nebish - 1/21/2017 at 06:08 AM

quote:
Treason would be the first reason

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNa2B5zHfbQ

See when you ask a foreign government to interfere and then they do that's an act of treason

I believe his campaign was closely connected to Russia....The man has a fascination with the country and its leader....

2 of his wives come from that part of the world....his daughter has a very "Slavic" first name....he ran his miss universe pageant there

There is a connection and it will be brought out to light....its just a matter of time


Well, the fact that he has or doesn't have a fascination with the country of Russia or if his daughter has a slavic name means nothing.

What does mean something is if there were actual collusion of some sort between his campaign and the Russian government. I will be disappointed if that is the case, but if proven, it is a very significant event. No doubt you will find Republicans ready to take action against Trump if it is shown he had communication with the Russians that lead to or asked them for any assistance during the campaign season.

So I believe this investigation is ongoing, right now.

But if the result of the investigation is the worst, Trump is impeached or resigns, then you'd be left with Pence, who I suspect most principled liberals don't like either. Some may even like him less?


Chain - 1/21/2017 at 01:40 PM

Trump is in violation of the Emoluments clause of the Constitution. The only question is whether the members of Congress will do their due diligence as required by their own oath of office and move to impeach him. Given Congress is controlled by the Republicans, it's probably a long shot.

I would suggest anyone curious about this potential Constitutional crisis listen to and read what these two ethics lawyers have been loudly proclaiming since Trump was elected. They are Richard Painter and Norm Eisen (George W. Bush's ethics lawyer and Barrack Obama's ethics lawyer respectably).


Here's a link to more info. on the Emoluments clause:

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/68/emoluments-cla use

[Edited on 1/21/2017 by Chain]


nebish - 1/21/2017 at 03:29 PM

quote:
Trump is in violation of the Emoluments clause of the Constitution. The only question is whether the members of Congress will do their due diligence as required by their own oath of office and move to impeach him. Given Congress is controlled by the Republicans, it's probably a long shot.

I would suggest anyone curious about this potential Constitutional crisis listen to and read what these two ethics lawyers have been loudly proclaiming since Trump was elected. They are Richard Painter and Norm Eisen (George W. Bush's ethics lawyer and Barrack Obama's ethics lawyer respectably).


Here's a link to more info. on the Emoluments clause:

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/68/emoluments-cla use

[Edited on 1/21/2017 by Chain]


Legitimate issue, it is going to be a cloud over his Presidency. I don't know how he could divest all business interest foreign and domestic being he is so unique in this area compared to other politicians. The standard of the blind trust seem too simplistic for a case of the holdings and interests of Trump? Maybe not. Smarter people than I can weigh in.

They talk about the lease agreement on the post office and an elected official ineligible to hold such a lease, although this should just violate the lease rather than create an issue for the office of President I think.

I will look up comments by Painter and Eisen.


goldtop - 1/21/2017 at 03:44 PM

Day 2......Emoluments clause is just one of the many conflicts this man will have....

He didn't release his tax returns because he knows the trouble that will cause...and he never will until they subpoena them and I'm sure that will happen at some point




alloak41 - 1/21/2017 at 04:04 PM

quote:
Day 2......Emoluments clause is just one of the many conflicts this man will have....

He didn't release his tax returns because he knows the trouble that will cause...and he never will until they subpoena them and I'm sure that will happen at some point



Voters knew about potential conflicts and tax returns before the election and he still won. The time to stop him was on Election Day.


Swifty - 1/21/2017 at 04:39 PM

quote:
quote:
Day 2......Emoluments clause is just one of the many conflicts this man will have....

He didn't release his tax returns because he knows the trouble that will cause...and he never will until they subpoena them and I'm sure that will happen at some point



Voters knew about potential conflicts and tax returns before the election and he still won. The time to stop him was on Election Day.


I fail to see how the voters only get one occasion to act. Is this a rule you made up?

But voters did not know how extensive those holdings are because Trump did not release his tax returns. Trump concealed his holdings. He asked the voters to trust him. Now if conflicts emerge and these are reported in the press, voters might reach a different conclusion about his business dealings. This would put pressure on congress to act.

If Trump creates jobs in a way that the country as a whole flourishes and people are happy with their new prospects, then there would be less pressure to investigate any conflicts. If people are unhappy with his performance then Trump will have big trouble.

Complicating matters for him is that all of the measures on his priority list will have an adverse impact on the poor unemployed people who voted for him. He has no real economic plan.


Bhawk - 1/21/2017 at 04:45 PM

The Emoluments Clause violation is a legitimate Constitutional concern.

Anyone who spent months or even years frothing at the mouth about Benghazi or emails, yet blows this off, is simply a smug partisan hypocrite who isn't as better than others as they think they are.


nebish - 1/21/2017 at 04:46 PM

quote:
quote:
Day 2......Emoluments clause is just one of the many conflicts this man will have....

He didn't release his tax returns because he knows the trouble that will cause...and he never will until they subpoena them and I'm sure that will happen at some point



Voters knew about potential conflicts and tax returns before the election and he still won. The time to stop him was on Election Day.


Well, that is true, but if there is a violation of law that turns into something different. If we are talking about just some kind of custom or ethical tradition it is one thing, if there are legal issues that goes beyond voters overlooking or not giving weight to it in their vote.

I mean look, there are things that I want to happen in this administration that I think can only happen in a Trump administration and as I've talked for years that is on trade. If he is impeached that opportunity goes out the window, so I don't want that. But we can't have constitutional violations either.

I have just a cursory knowledge of these things, right wrong or otherwise potential conflicts of interest were not something I factored when voting. I suppose one could think that stuff may work it's self out, but if it hasn't then people are going to continue to bring it up and it may have some legitimacy to it.

Just this morning trying to get up to speed I've learned that criminal conflict of interest statute prohibits every other person in executive branch, except the President and Vice President, from participating in any matter that had a direct and predictable outcome on their investments or personal well being. But President and VP are exempt from this statute. However they risk serious appearances of impropriety. Previous Presidents have done everything they could to eliminate any appearance of conflict.

Emoluments clause comes in with foreign governments or institutions/companies controlled by foreign governments (like if the Bank of China lends to a Trump business for instance) that is a violation. I'm not a lawyer, one side would say it is not or why it is not and the other side would argue otherwise. The end result is if it is a violation then it is an impeachable issue. It’s best to divest these interests so there are no questions. Nobody technically knows at this point if there is a violation, but speculation is if there hasn’t been already that potential exists. Even if you give Trump the benefit of the doubt and say it happened without his knowledge it is still a violation I suspect, again you shouldn't take any of this from me there are much more knowledgeable people out there.

So it is best to get as far away from a potential conflict as possible so it isn’t a constant black cloud or liability to his term. I didn't know how a blind trust would work with the vast and diverse holdings of somebody like Trump. The physical businesses or properties wouldn’t go into a blind trust, all the assets would have to be sold (rolled into one, offered as a public offering), all holdings would need converted to cash and the money goes into a blind trust. So no doubt Trump didn't want to do that.

And to my limited knowledge, it isn't against the law for him to continue ownership of these companies and businesses. It leads to some problems, but not legal problems with him being President - except for that issue of foreign government influence and dollars and with Trump's global holdings that potential does exist. Nobody should want that exposure, certainly not Trump or anyone on his team. But he has left himself open to it.

One big problem maintaining these private business interests, outside of the potential Emoluments violation, is the President could be a litigation magnet with private lawsuits, legitimate or frivolous. The President can be sued in his personal capacity and would have to go through the process of discovery, deposition related to those lawsuits. Not something we want our President to be facing much of. It's a distraction at best.

And some say politics are boring!


MartinD28 - 1/21/2017 at 04:47 PM

quote:
quote:
Day 2......Emoluments clause is just one of the many conflicts this man will have....

He didn't release his tax returns because he knows the trouble that will cause...and he never will until they subpoena them and I'm sure that will happen at some point



Voters knew about potential conflicts and tax returns before the election and he still won. The time to stop him was on Election Day.


Some maybe but most probably not. Truthfully, alloak - How many voters really follow substance & details enough to know the extent of Trump's conflicts of issue? You might be referring to the same voters that think ACA and Obamacare are different.

As pointed out, if the guy won't release his tax returns, imagine what's in there to add to the extent of conflict. Just the other day he lied, yet again (for the umpteenth time) and said that the American public doesn't care about his tax returns. He knows there are things in there not beneficial for release. Google it up for yourself.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jan/11/donald-trump /trump-wrong-reporters-are-only-ones-who-care-about/

alloak, Do you care about what's in his tax returns and where there is conflict, or are you just more thrilled that Obama's 2 terms are over, and Trump will Make America Great Again...whatever that means?


Bhawk - 1/21/2017 at 04:48 PM

quote:
So it is best to get as far away from a potential conflict as possible so it isn’t a constant black cloud or liability to his term. I didn't know how a blind trust would work with the vast and diverse holdings of somebody like Trump. The physical businesses or properties wouldn’t go into a blind trust, all the assets would have to be sold (rolled into one, offered as a public offering), all holdings would need converted to cash and the money goes into a blind trust. So no doubt Trump didn't want to do that.



Then he shouldn't have run for President. Pretty simple.


nebish - 1/21/2017 at 04:51 PM

I should thank Chain for providing some substantive info and direction on the issue. I know more now than I did an hour ago and that is a good thing.


Bhawk - 1/21/2017 at 04:58 PM

quote:
I should thank Chain for providing some substantive info and direction on the issue. I know more now than I did an hour ago and that is a good thing.


Good to see Chain around these parts again!


Bhawk - 1/21/2017 at 04:58 PM

quote:
I should thank Chain for providing some substantive info and direction on the issue. I know more now than I did an hour ago and that is a good thing.


Good to see Chain around these parts again!


alloak41 - 1/21/2017 at 05:14 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Day 2......Emoluments clause is just one of the many conflicts this man will have....

He didn't release his tax returns because he knows the trouble that will cause...and he never will until they subpoena them and I'm sure that will happen at some point



Voters knew about potential conflicts and tax returns before the election and he still won. The time to stop him was on Election Day.


Some maybe but most probably not. Truthfully, alloak - How many voters really follow substance & details enough to know the extent of Trump's conflicts of issue? You might be referring to the same voters that think ACA and Obamacare are different.

As pointed out, if the guy won't release his tax returns, imagine what's in there to add to the extent of conflict. Just the other day he lied, yet again (for the umpteenth time) and said that the American public doesn't care about his tax returns. He knows there are things in there not beneficial for release. Google it up for yourself.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jan/11/donald-trump /trump-wrong-reporters-are-only-ones-who-care-about/

alloak, Do you care about what's in his tax returns and where there is conflict, or are you just more thrilled that Obama's 2 terms are over, and Trump will Make America Great Again...whatever that means?


Of course I'm thrilled that Obama's is done. I could say I'm sad to see him go but you wouldn't believe that anyway.

No. I don't care about his tax returns. Just as I don't care about Clinton, Kerry, Romney, McCain, Bush, or Gore's tax return. I guess I care more job performance and results.


Bhawk - 1/21/2017 at 05:16 PM

quote:
I guess I care more job performance and results.


At the sake of legality and ethics? The same level of legality and ethics that the rightists have been going on about for two years towards their enemies?

Bold statement to make on Day 2, I'll give you that.


Chain - 1/21/2017 at 05:33 PM

quote:
The Emoluments Clause violation is a legitimate Constitutional concern.

Anyone who spent months or even years frothing at the mouth about Benghazi or emails, yet blows this off, is simply a smug partisan hypocrite who isn't as better than others as they think they are.


Exactly, Hawk....Richard Painter mentioned this very issue on "Fresh Air" with Terry Gross yesterday. He mentioned how embarrassed he is as a long time partisan Republican that his party made such an issue about Benghazi but yet is ignoring blatant violations by Trump on an issue that is tantamount to the very foundation of checks and balances within our government.

He also pointed to the fact that the Republicans in congress are already making efforts to thwart efforts by those very federal employees (not elected politicians) and agencies charged with investigating and overseeing ethics violations who are bringing some of these obvious violations forward.

I would suggest listening to the entire "Fresh Air" edition from yesterday as well as a recent "On Point" with Tom Ashbrook in which both of these attorney's also were guests. Also, both co-authored a recent NY Times article (or maybe it was Washington Post?) about this issue. Here's a link to yesterday's Fresh Air:

http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/2017/01/19/510596329/fresh-air-for-ja nuary-19-2017

And the "On Point" episode:

http://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2016/11/28/conflict-interest-donald-trump

Thanks for the kind wishes, gang.....



[Edited on 1/21/2017 by Chain]


alloak41 - 1/21/2017 at 05:43 PM

quote:
Day 2......Emoluments clause is just one of the many conflicts this man will have....

He didn't release his tax returns because he knows the trouble that will cause...and he never will until they subpoena them and I'm sure that will happen at some point



Voters knew about potential conflicts and tax returns before the election and he still won. The time to stop him was on Election Day.


I fail to see how the voters only get one occasion to act. Is this a rule you made up?



No, but that's the most effective and surefire way to handle it.

Now we get to see how the Democrats really feel about "fake scandals" and "witch hunts" Not to mention "obstruction."

Will they set an example and match actions with words, or end up looking like phonies?








Time will tell....


Bhawk - 1/21/2017 at 05:46 PM

quote:
quote:
Day 2......Emoluments clause is just one of the many conflicts this man will have....

He didn't release his tax returns because he knows the trouble that will cause...and he never will until they subpoena them and I'm sure that will happen at some point



Voters knew about potential conflicts and tax returns before the election and he still won. The time to stop him was on Election Day.


I fail to see how the voters only get one occasion to act. Is this a rule you made up?



No, but that's the most effective and surefire way to handle it.

Now we get to see how the Democrats really feel about "fake scandals" and "witch hunts" Not to mention "obstruction."

Will they set an example and match actions with words, or end up looking like phonies?



So, Trump is exempt from criticism and laws. How do you conclude that so easily? I'm kinda jealous of being able to do that.


alloak41 - 1/21/2017 at 05:51 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Day 2......Emoluments clause is just one of the many conflicts this man will have....

He didn't release his tax returns because he knows the trouble that will cause...and he never will until they subpoena them and I'm sure that will happen at some point



Voters knew about potential conflicts and tax returns before the election and he still won. The time to stop him was on Election Day.


I fail to see how the voters only get one occasion to act. Is this a rule you made up?



No, but that's the most effective and surefire way to handle it.

Now we get to see how the Democrats really feel about "fake scandals" and "witch hunts" Not to mention "obstruction."

Will they set an example and match actions with words, or end up looking like phonies?



So, Trump is exempt from criticism and laws. How do you conclude that so easily? I'm kinda jealous of being able to do that.


And I'm a little jealous as a normal citizen not being exempt from laws the way politicians are. We both know laws only apply to certain people. It is what it is.


Bhawk - 1/21/2017 at 06:24 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Day 2......Emoluments clause is just one of the many conflicts this man will have....

He didn't release his tax returns because he knows the trouble that will cause...and he never will until they subpoena them and I'm sure that will happen at some point



Voters knew about potential conflicts and tax returns before the election and he still won. The time to stop him was on Election Day.


I fail to see how the voters only get one occasion to act. Is this a rule you made up?



No, but that's the most effective and surefire way to handle it.

Now we get to see how the Democrats really feel about "fake scandals" and "witch hunts" Not to mention "obstruction."

Will they set an example and match actions with words, or end up looking like phonies?



So, Trump is exempt from criticism and laws. How do you conclude that so easily? I'm kinda jealous of being able to do that.


And I'm a little jealous as a normal citizen not being exempt from laws the way politicians are. We both know laws only apply to certain people. It is what it is.


So, then, to be clear, you are adopting the "by any means necessary" approach when it comes to Trump?


goldtop - 1/21/2017 at 07:38 PM

Besides the fact he's a disgusting human...and unfortunately we can't impeach for that alone....I think he has long deep ties to Russia and Putin

You don't run a Ms Universe pageant there without greasing the palms of the government....who knows what other backdoor deals went down during that time.....

Its amazing how his supports have no problem with Russian interference at any level with any party

His approval rating is 32%....so I would say 68% of the people want to see his tax returns and the other 32% continue to bury their heads in the sand....hoping for the government to get them a job...which of course is socialism



MartinD28 - 1/21/2017 at 08:43 PM

quote:

His approval rating is 32%....so I would say 68% of the people want to see his tax returns and the other 32% continue to bury their heads in the sand....hoping for the government to get them a job...which of course is socialism




They 32% will all head to West Va when Trump Makes America Great Again by reopening coal mines that have closed and rejuvenating the coal industry with 1000's of jobs.


goldtop - 1/22/2017 at 04:12 PM

Day 3

So yesterday he goes to the CIA and blames the media for the so called "fight" between him and the Intelligence community

Yet he somehow forgot he tweeted that they were Nazi's

This has nothing to do with right or left....Republican or Democrat it has to do with that he is a disgusting person with zero values or ability to tell the truth.

Ever wonder why he has no public service at 70 years old....because he doesn't give a chit....and never did and never will

The man should be pulling a wagon and have a little gibbon monkey dressed up in a red and gold suit selling his snake oil

Just show how far behind we really are...we put Archie Bunker in the white house




Redfish7 - 1/22/2017 at 05:06 PM

So…Trump would remain in office even if he was impeached. It would take a conviction by the senate (two thirds majority) for him to actually be removed from office. This is extremely unlikely to happen…in fact, I don’t think it (removal of a president) has ever happened in the history of our country…but someone correct me if I’m wrong? But let’s say for the sake of argument that Trump is removed. If that happens, the vice president takes the spot vacated by Trump. Now…I assume most (if not all) of the folks screaming for impeachment are liberals, or at least fall somewhere left of center in the political spectrum. Trump is not a conservative. He was a liberal for most of his life until he decided to run for prez under the GOP banner. But Mike Pence is a conservative. So even though Trump is a “disgusting human” as someone so eloquently put it, he probably aligns much more closely with the center /left of center folks than Mike Pence does. Just curious if the folks on the left have thought this through …by eliminating Trump they actually put a much more conservative president in the white house…so what do they gain?


BoytonBrother - 1/22/2017 at 05:22 PM

quote:
No, but that's the most effective and surefire way to handle it.

Now we get to see how the Democrats really feel about "fake scandals" and "witch hunts" Not to mention "obstruction."

Will they set an example and match actions with words, or end up looking like phonies?


Everyone knows these hypocricies exist on both sides, so what are you offering here? McConnel and Boehner openly admitted they were going to block Obama no matter what he put forward, without even hearing or reading it. They said that. If the Democrats do that with Trump, they are equally as dispicable. So aside from pointing out an example of hypocrisy on the left, what else are you saying?


BoytonBrother - 1/22/2017 at 05:22 PM

quote:
by eliminating Trump they actually put a much more conservative president in the white house…so what do they gain?


Trump's hostile, exclusive, and dangerous rhetoric could inflame emotions domestically and internationally, and escalate tensions. To eliminate this potentional risk is worth it alone. I think Pence has a much less chance of starting WW3. Pence may believe in gay-conversion therapy, but I do not worry about him attempting it. He won't ban gay marraige, he won't do anything of the sort, so as I was saying in the other thread, a conservative President at the end of the day won't change my day. Trump's rhetoric doesn't fall into conservative or liberal - it's just irresponsible, immature, emabarrassing, unprofessional, and potentiall very dangerous. And if his thin-skin and short temper get the best of him, I'd hate to see what happens after he antagonizes another country via Twitter. Gimme Pence all day.

I don't know if anyone saw SNL last night, but Aziz Ansari made a comment during his monologue that mirrors what I've been saying about Bush. He wasn't so bad. He was in fact a great President. He and his family showed just as much class and dignity as the Obamas, and faced just as much hostility and opposition, but never wavered and was never un-Presidential. He did what he thought was right in the face of adversity, and allowed history to judge him, and looking back I think he did a pretty good job for his character if nothing else. That's how bad Trump is. When liberals are reminscing about how we long for Bush.

[Edited on 1/22/2017 by BoytonBrother]


porkchopbob - 1/22/2017 at 05:28 PM

quote:
No, but that's the most effective and surefire way to handle it.

Now we get to see how the Democrats really feel about "fake scandals" and "witch hunts" Not to mention "obstruction."

Will they set an example and match actions with words, or end up looking like phonies?

Dismantling the agency that keeps politicians in check is an effective way to hide violations of ethics? Sounds, I don't know, CROOKED.

Interesting to see you hold Democrats to a higher standard.







Time will tell....


Bhawk - 1/22/2017 at 05:36 PM

quote:
I don’t think it (removal of a president) has ever happened in the history of our country…but someone correct me if I’m wrong?


You are correct. Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton are the only two that have been impeached. Nixon resigned from office, of course.

quote:
Now…I assume most (if not all) of the folks screaming for impeachment are liberals, or at least fall somewhere left of center in the political spectrum.


People can scream all they want. Given the current makeup of Congress, Trump won't get investigated for...anything.

quote:
Trump is not a conservative. He was a liberal for most of his life until he decided to run for prez under the GOP banner. But Mike Pence is a conservative. So even though Trump is a “disgusting human” as someone so eloquently put it, he probably aligns much more closely with the center /left of center folks than Mike Pence does.


Donald Trump aligns with whatever is best for Donald Trump. This should be pretty obvious to most people by now.

quote:
Just curious if the folks on the left have thought this through …by eliminating Trump they actually put a much more conservative president in the white house…so what do they gain?


As much that is wrong with our government, as many changes need to be made, some of the radical, immediate changes being made or planned are, in some ways, more anarchistic to the traditional political order than any black bloc idiot breaking the window of a coffee shop. There is a difference between the transitional and evolving matters in our society that government makes correct or incorrect, hands-off or intrusive, and the traditions of an orderly state that are carried on for the common good.

The daily business of politics, government and bureaucracy, when running correctly, is incredibly mundane and boring, and that's a good thing. The simple matter of governance should be carried on so the citizens can go on about their day.

Mike Pence is a career politician. No matter who or what or how someone likes or dislikes career politicians, we have a ton of them. Until we (never) discuss term limits and such, we will always have career politicians. There once was a time when the majority of the folks in Congress were lawyers, but that has changed over time. Last session, only 39 percent of the House and 57 percent of the Senate had a JD. On one hand, seems like nobody likes lawyers (until they need one, of course), but on the other hand, electing experts in law to work on and create and amend laws doesn't sound that out of the realm.

If you do a lot of reading about the behind the scenes in Washington, there's a lot of folks scared (Republicans too!) by Trump...in that did-we-really-put-Homer-Simpson-in-charge-of-a-nuclear-reactor way. Platitudes and populism work to get one elected (obviously), but winning an election has absolutely nothing to do with governing.

I can only speak for myself, but given that this morning we entered a new world of "alternate facts," I'd take President Pence right now.


Redfish7 - 1/22/2017 at 05:55 PM

Bhawk - Well said. It's an interesting scenario...I think Pence is much more of the typical conservative type (pro-life, anti-LGBT, etc.) than Trump. So it seems Pence as president would be much more of a threat when it comes to those types of issues...the very issues that brought thousands of protestors out into the streets yesterday. So the "Love Trumps Hate" crowd is so blinded by and driven by their hysterical hatred of Trump, that they would actually prefer to put their political agenda at an even GREATER risk by removing Trump from office. They have actually put their hatred of Trump and his removal as a higher priority than protecting their own rights.


BoytonBrother - 1/22/2017 at 06:17 PM

A threat to what? What rights would Pence take away that we have now?

[Edited on 1/22/2017 by BoytonBrother]


Redfish7 - 1/22/2017 at 06:29 PM

quote:
What rights would Pence take away that we have now?


I have no idea. And I noticed that not one person interviewed at the protests yesterday was able to clearly articulate what exactly they were protesting or what they were afraid of. But apparently women, the LGBT community, and some minority groups (BLM) fear that the Trump administration is going to roll back their rights and erase the many decades of progress that has been made in civil/human rights. My point was that Pence (as a conservative) is more of a threat (in theory at least) to their rights than Trump, but for some reason they still want Pence as president. It is an irrational - bordering on hysterical - hatred that these people have for Trump such that their primary goal is his removal, not human/civil rights.


Bhawk - 1/22/2017 at 06:30 PM

quote:
I think Pence is much more of the typical conservative type (pro-life, anti-LGBT, etc.) than Trump. So it seems Pence as president would be much more of a threat when it comes to those types of issues...the very issues that brought thousands of protestors out into the streets yesterday.


Again, Pence is a career politician. All of the Republican Congressional leadership are career politicians. There's a Republican senator from my home state that hasn't actually lived here in 20 years. There's a long way between saying and doing. In the end, a career politician is beholden to his or her desire for re-election. Radical changes and ideas don't always come out and they don't always have the full partisan weight behind them. If they, did, for example, Harriet Miers would be a Supreme Court Justice.

quote:
So the "Love Trumps Hate" crowd is so blinded by and driven by their hysterical hatred of Trump, that they would actually prefer to put their political agenda at an even GREATER risk by removing Trump from office. They have actually put their hatred of Trump and his removal as a higher priority than protecting their own rights.


"Blinded by hate." The tired hypocrisy angle. In your zeal to call it from both sides, you're discounting one whole side.

Look, the guy is on tape saying "grab them by the p***y," has kids by three different women and has said that if Ivanka wasn't his daughter, he'd do her. If you think that's not going to cause a reaction, especially considering that he's now the President, I don't know what to tell you.

"They are all just blinded by their hate! Trump is a saint! Practically Jesus! Look at all these idiot liberals and their hate!"

Pretty transparent trolling-lite here, and one that's been used many times before. Lacks punch, IMO.


Bhawk - 1/22/2017 at 06:31 PM

quote:
I have no idea. And I noticed that not one person interviewed at the protests yesterday was able to clearly articulate what exactly they were protesting or what they were afraid of.


Oh irony, thou art a cruel mistress...


Redfish7 - 1/22/2017 at 06:39 PM

Yeah, you're right...there was no hatred or displays of vulgarity from the "p***y power", "nasty women", "F**k Trump", dressed like vaginas, thoughts of blowing up the white house crowd yesterday. Classy, intelligent bunch of folks. And I'm just a dishonest troll now? Got it.


goldtop - 1/22/2017 at 06:50 PM

Yes Trump is disgusting

His taped p***sy commnet...pretty disgusting

His comment on how a judge can't be fair because he's "Mexican"...pretty disgusting

His ban on Muslims...pretty disgusting

His use of twitter....pretty disgusting

His comments about his daughter....pretty disgusting

His attack and calling our intelligence community Nazi's...pretty disgusting

Yes he is a disgusting person with zero values....sorry I thought you liked him because of his straight talk...well I have no problem with straight talk

He's a disgusting person

[Edited on 1/22/2017 by goldtop]


Bhawk - 1/22/2017 at 06:53 PM

quote:
Yeah, you're right...there was no hatred or displays of vulgarity from the "p***y power", "nasty women", "F**k Trump", dressed like vaginas, thoughts of blowing up the white house crowd yesterday. Classy, intelligent bunch of folks. And I'm just a dishonest troll now? Got it.


Motivations on message boards are usually made quite clear by what people do and don't respond to. Your refusal to acknowledge any of Trump's behavior as a reason for, well, anything is a pretty clear tell.

Apparently, your overriding theme here is: American liberals are hate-filled hypocrites, hate-filled for no reason. They should sit down, shut up, and let the right wing, perfect in every way, have the final say on anything and everything. No one on the right wing has ever said or done anything hateful, ever. This is an extremely common theme that has been recurring on this particular board now for several years, almost always by the same people.

If that's what you mean to say, just come out and say it. Trying to set up hypocritical "gotchas" has been and is an obsession by many, and it's almost always started off with the "I despise both sides, but, the left..." approach.

I could post a hundred hateful signs from Tea Party rallies and Obama being burned in effigy, but you'd just ignore them, because apparently they don't exist. Odd one-way hypocrisy standard you have.


BoytonBrother - 1/22/2017 at 07:03 PM

quote:
My point was that Pence (as a conservative) is more of a threat (in theory at least) to their rights than Trump, but for some reason they still want Pence as president. It is an irrational - bordering on hysterical - hatred that these people have for Trump such that their primary goal is his removal, not human/civil rights.


Bhawk stated it perfectly. I'll add that some people worry about the potential dangers of a hostile, short-tempered, thin-skinned President who behaves like a child. Many of us are concerned he could start international conflicts over petty reasons. So that's why we'd rather have Pence - we're not afraid of the big bad other side and don't consider opposing views a threat, like you do. We know America has enough resources that will allow us to do anything we want. The only thing irrational and hysterical is your paranoia of having no choice but to succomb to the big bad politicians that "affect you by force", and somehow dictate what happens to you in life. Please. Since you confuse laws with political idealogy, and couldn't understand why Meryl wasn't fired despite not working for anyone, you haven't done anything to gain an ounce of credibility, and if you have, please show us. I disagree with Bhawk in one sense. Trolls know what they are doing. I just think you don't have the capacity to know any better.


Redfish7 - 1/22/2017 at 07:07 PM

goldtop - I agree that those things that Trump did are disgusting.

However...Bhawk will be along soon enough to explain to you how I really don't believe that...I am just a liar, and a troll. Apparently ol' Bhawk has me figured out, and knows my mind, my motivations, and my political philosophy even better than I do.


goldtop - 1/22/2017 at 07:15 PM

quote:
goldtop - I agree that those things that Trump did are disgusting.

However...Bhawk will be along soon enough to explain to you how I really don't believe that...I am just a liar, and a troll. Apparently ol' Bhawk has me figured out, and knows my mind, my motivations, and my political philosophy even better than I do.


I don't care if a republican or democrat is in the white house. I don't want a disgusting person in the white house

I also have a disabled grandson so his mocking of the palsy of the disabled reporter is the height of disgusting

What the "Right" doesn't get....He's a disgusting dangerous person...How can anyone see anything positive in that or him???

If Rubio or Kasich was in I would not feel like this at all...and do you think there would have been marches world wide if they were elected or if Hillary was elected

those marches happened for 1 reason only

************>>>>>>DONALD TRUMP IS A DISGUSTING PERSON<<<<<<<<<<<<*************

it was zero to do with republican or right wing...so that can never be the argument


Bhawk - 1/22/2017 at 07:15 PM

quote:
Pretty transparent trolling-lite here, and one that's been used many times before. Lacks punch, IMO.


That isn't calling anyone a troll. That's an observation that a post is light trolling to illicit an emotional response, something that everyone including myself has done many times before. It's not like trying to get someone to lose their cool is restricted to this tiny corner of the internet.

I never called Redfish7 a troll or a liar. But, I have no control over how people process things.


Bhawk - 1/22/2017 at 07:18 PM

quote:
I disagree with Bhawk in one sense. Trolls know what they are doing. I just think you don't have the capacity to know any better.


Well...that's not fair, really. Redfish7 hasn't been posting in the WP long enough to make a conclusion like that. Benefit of the doubt still in clear play from my chair.


Bhawk - 1/22/2017 at 07:21 PM

quote:
If Rubio or Kasich was in I would not feel like this at all...


I liked (and still do) Marco Rubio a lot. Kasich too. I'd happily take back 95% of the negative things I've ever said about Mitt Romney. Their common thread...all decent, honorable men with admirable records of public service.

Hillary was a terrible candidate from the get-go and she lost.

Apparently, somehow, we're here...

"You guys WON! Get over it!"


porkchopbob - 1/22/2017 at 07:24 PM

quote:
there was no hatred or displays of vulgarity from the "p***y power", "nasty women", "F**k Trump", dressed like vaginas, thoughts of blowing up the white house crowd yesterday. Classy, intelligent bunch of folks. And I'm just a dishonest troll now? Got it.


Let's not forget that the "P___ Power" and "Nasty Women" signs at these incredibly peaceful protests (by millions nation- and worldwide), are in direct response to vulgar comments made by Trump himself. To paraphrase the judges on Law & Order, "you opened the door, counselor, I'm allowing it..." These aren't born in a vacuum.


Redfish7 - 1/22/2017 at 07:28 PM

BoytonBrother - so laws aren't based on political ideology? Laws and world events exist in a vacuum and are in no way determined by political ideology? Obamacare was not an outcome of a certain political ideology? The Iraq war was not the outcome of a political ideology? And laws are not enforced by the power/force of the government? I can simply choose to ignore laws rather then "letting" them dictate what happens to me?

Fascinating. And good to know. All this time I've been under the impression that political ideology informs and shapes the laws of a society, and that those laws then dictate what is legal or illegal behavior for the members of said society, and that these laws are then enforced by the government of that society. But I like your way better...(if only it existed).

Someone really should have let all those protestors in on this theory of yours..."political beliefs do not affect you, laws don't dictate what your rights are...this march is a waste of time...just don't LET Trump affect you...you can all go home now"...lol.


Redfish7 - 1/22/2017 at 07:45 PM

quote:
quote:
there was no hatred or displays of vulgarity from the "p***y power", "nasty women", "F**k Trump", dressed like vaginas, thoughts of blowing up the white house crowd yesterday. Classy, intelligent bunch of folks. And I'm just a dishonest troll now? Got it.


Let's not forget that the "P___ Power" and "Nasty Women" signs at these incredibly peaceful protests (by millions nation- and worldwide), are in direct response to vulgar comments made by Trump himself. To paraphrase the judges on Law & Order, "you opened the door, counselor, I'm allowing it..." These aren't born in a vacuum.


So I guess that makes it OK? Didn't we just have the double standard/hypocrisy discussion? If these folks thought it was vulgar, shouldn't they have tried to rise above that vulgarity and have a higher standard? If Trump thinks that some women are nasty and vulgar...well, I would have to say that many of them proved him right yesterday. Would it not have been better to come out and be classy, intelligent, and articulate as a response to Trump? Instead they protested vulgarity by being equally vulgar. And my questions/comments are directed at the ones who acted that way. I realize that they are not representative of all women or all of the protestors.


Redfish7 - 1/22/2017 at 07:54 PM

quote:
quote:
Pretty transparent trolling-lite here, and one that's been used many times before. Lacks punch, IMO.


That isn't calling anyone a troll. That's an observation that a post is light trolling to illicit an emotional response, something that everyone including myself has done many times before. It's not like trying to get someone to lose their cool is restricted to this tiny corner of the internet.

I never called Redfish7 a troll or a liar. But, I have no control over how people process things.


OK...let's split hairs. To be fair to Bhawk. He never called me a liar, he just drew a conclusion that I was being dishonest. So he accused me of being dishonest, but he never used the "L" word.

And he never directly called me a troll. He just said that my post was an example of "trolling-lite", which also implied that my question was not a sincere/honest one, but rather just an attempt to piss people off.

So...according to Bhawk...I am dishonest, but not a liar. And I am the author of posts motivated by trolling, but I am not a troll.


BoytonBrother - 1/22/2017 at 07:58 PM

quote:
BoytonBrother - so laws aren't based on political ideology? Laws and world events exist in a vacuum and are in no way determined by political ideology? Obamacare was not an outcome of a certain political ideology? The Iraq war was not the outcome of a political ideology? And laws are not enforced by the power/force of the government? I can simply choose to ignore laws rather then "letting" them dictate what happens to me?


You consider a difference in political ideology to be a problem that creates some sort of threat to you, and takes away your rights. I don't feel that way.

quote:
Someone really should have let all those protestors in on this theory of yours..."political beliefs do not affect you, laws don't dictate what your rights are...this march is a waste of time...just don't LET Trump affect you...you can all go home now"...lol.


Now you get it. This is truly exactly how I feel. I respect their right to voice themselves, but I don't think women's rights will ever be in jeopardy under Trump, but I certainly don't blame them for being outraged by his comments.


porkchopbob - 1/22/2017 at 08:04 PM

quote:
So I guess that makes it OK? Didn't we just have the double standard/hypocrisy discussion? If these folks thought it was vulgar, shouldn't they have tried to rise above that vulgarity and have a higher standard? If Trump thinks that some women are nasty and vulgar...well, I would have to say that many of them proved him right yesterday. Would it not have been better to come out and be classy, intelligent, and articulate as a response to Trump? Instead they protested vulgarity by being equally vulgar. And my questions/comments are directed at the ones who acted that way. I realize that they are not representative of all women or all of the protestors.


It's called context, they reappropriated his own words. Often times, quite sharply and wittily. They are responding to what they found insulting. How do you protest words and actions you find horrible by extracting them from your own protest? And how vulgar is "nasty" - what are you a Puritan? They peacefully protested? That is about as classy as you can get. You want them to burn Trump in effigy as many did Obama in 2008? You may not agree with what they protested, but you can't argue with how they protested.


Bhawk - 1/22/2017 at 08:06 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Pretty transparent trolling-lite here, and one that's been used many times before. Lacks punch, IMO.


That isn't calling anyone a troll. That's an observation that a post is light trolling to illicit an emotional response, something that everyone including myself has done many times before. It's not like trying to get someone to lose their cool is restricted to this tiny corner of the internet.

I never called Redfish7 a troll or a liar. But, I have no control over how people process things.


OK...let's split hairs. To be fair to Bhawk. He never called me a liar, he just drew a conclusion that I was being dishonest. So he accused me of being dishonest, but he never used the "L" word.

And he never directly called me a troll. He just said that my post was an example of "trolling-lite", which also implied that my question was not a sincere/honest one, but rather just an attempt to piss people off.

So...according to Bhawk...I am dishonest, but not a liar. And I am the author of posts motivated by trolling, but I am not a troll.


One thing is for sure, you are quite sensitive.


Redfish7 - 1/22/2017 at 08:22 PM

I get that this is how you "feel". But I'm not interested in how you feel about something. I'm only interested in how things really are.

And it's not that I just "CONSIDER" a difference in political ideology to be a problem that creates some sort of threat to me. It's that this is reality. And the "threat" isn't necessarily a loss of rights. It could be a decrease in disposable income or the loss of a good health care policy, which I have already provided as evidence of ways in which the political ideology of the Obama administration directly impacted me.

Political ideology can also have a positive impact. I'm not saying it is all bad. I favor those aspects of a political ideology that are positive, while opposing those that are negative.

But to say that political ideology has no impact on my life or yours...well, you can "feel" that way all you want to. But the reality is quite different.

So...those women protesting yesterday...their rights aren't really in jeopardy, they are just unjustifiably paranoid, and they are only protesting because they are butt-hurt over some comments Trump made? Another interesting theory...


Redfish7 - 1/22/2017 at 08:28 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Pretty transparent trolling-lite here, and one that's been used many times before. Lacks punch, IMO.


That isn't calling anyone a troll. That's an observation that a post is light trolling to illicit an emotional response, something that everyone including myself has done many times before. It's not like trying to get someone to lose their cool is restricted to this tiny corner of the internet.

I never called Redfish7 a troll or a liar. But, I have no control over how people process things.


OK...let's split hairs. To be fair to Bhawk. He never called me a liar, he just drew a conclusion that I was being dishonest. So he accused me of being dishonest, but he never used the "L" word.

And he never directly called me a troll. He just said that my post was an example of "trolling-lite", which also implied that my question was not a sincere/honest one, but rather just an attempt to piss people off.

So...according to Bhawk...I am dishonest, but not a liar. And I am the author of posts motivated by trolling, but I am not a troll.


One thing is for sure, you are quite sensitive.


Yes, I know...a quite sensitive, dishonest, troll. I've learned so much about myself from you.


BoytonBrother - 1/22/2017 at 08:48 PM

quote:
You are kidding, right? With the Supreme Court up for grabs you don't think Roe vs. Wade is going to come under fire?


I don't. It might be challenged, but I believe a woman will always be able to have an abortion should she choose that route. I don't see how Trump could prevent that. If he can, please do tell. I'm always eager to learn.


Bhawk - 1/22/2017 at 08:51 PM

quote:
goldtop - I agree that those things that Trump did are disgusting.


quote:
So...those women protesting yesterday...their rights aren't really in jeopardy, they are just unjustifiably paranoid, and they are only protesting because they are butt-hurt over some comments Trump made?


You find these things "disgusting," but anyone else taking issue to them is "butt-hurt?"


BoytonBrother - 1/22/2017 at 08:54 PM

quote:
And it's not that I just "CONSIDER" a difference in political ideology to be a problem that creates some sort of threat to me. It's that this is reality. And the "threat" isn't necessarily a loss of rights. It could be a decrease in disposable income or the loss of a good health care policy, which I have already provided as evidence of ways in which the political ideology of the Obama administration directly impacted me.


Wah wah, the government is to blame for your income now? Whatever happened to working harder for the income you want?


quote:
But to say that political ideology has no impact on my life or yours...well, you can "feel" that way all you want to. But the reality is quite different.


If you say so.


quote:
So...those women protesting yesterday...their rights aren't really in jeopardy, they are just unjustifiably paranoid, and they are only protesting because they are butt-hurt over some comments Trump made? Another interesting theory...


your words and interpretation. you can cut and past mine from above for my words and interpretation.


jkeller - 1/22/2017 at 09:02 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Pretty transparent trolling-lite here, and one that's been used many times before. Lacks punch, IMO.


That isn't calling anyone a troll. That's an observation that a post is light trolling to illicit an emotional response, something that everyone including myself has done many times before. It's not like trying to get someone to lose their cool is restricted to this tiny corner of the internet.

I never called Redfish7 a troll or a liar. But, I have no control over how people process things.


OK...let's split hairs. To be fair to Bhawk. He never called me a liar, he just drew a conclusion that I was being dishonest. So he accused me of being dishonest, but he never used the "L" word.

And he never directly called me a troll. He just said that my post was an example of "trolling-lite", which also implied that my question was not a sincere/honest one, but rather just an attempt to piss people off.

So...according to Bhawk...I am dishonest, but not a liar. And I am the author of posts motivated by trolling, but I am not a troll.


One thing is for sure, you are quite sensitive.


Yes, I know...a quite sensitive, dishonest, troll. I've learned so much about myself from you.


You concluded that.


Bhawk - 1/22/2017 at 09:11 PM

Consider this. This is today. This morning:

quote:
4:47 am - Watched protests yesterday but was under the impression that we just had an election! Why didn't these people vote? Celebs hurt cause badly.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/823150055418920960?ref_src=twsrc %5Etfw



Then, about an hour and a half later:

quote:
6:23am - Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy. Even if I don't always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/823174199036542980?ref_src=twsrc %5Etfw



All of the ridiculous and inane nitpicking done over Presidents over the last several years and all of the sudden you even breathe the slightest implication of negativity on the things like this our PRESIDENT says and you're just a butt-hurt snowflake?

Get the ---- outta here.


Redfish7 - 1/22/2017 at 10:13 PM

quote:
Wah wah, the government is to blame for your income now? Whatever happened to working harder for the income you want?


Oh, OK...so now I have to go find a higher paying job or work more hours just to maintain the same level of income. Great! Well, at least you are finally acknowledging that political ideologies negatively impact me and my family. We're making some progress now.

You are so lost here. What don't you get? Someone's or some party's political ideology lead to the implementation of Obamacare. I now pay a higher premium, have a higher deductible, etc. which means less net income in my pocket every month. That is a negative impact to me that is a result of a political ideology. Your suggestion...work harder...so now we have another negative impact to me and my family.

Before Obamacare: Good health insurance policy, lower premiums, lower deductibles.

After Obamacare: Higher premiums, higher deductibles - both of which result in less money in my pocket. And according to you I must now work harder to maintain the same level of income.

So...a worse insurance policy, less money in my pocket, more work resulting in less free time to spend with my family and doing the things that I enjoy, etc. So tell me again how political ideologies have no impact on my life? And tell me again why I should not be opposed to something that negatively impacts me and my family?

And keep in mind that Obamacare is just one small example of how politics intersects with and impacts our lives.


jkeller - 1/22/2017 at 10:24 PM

quote:
quote:
Wah wah, the government is to blame for your income now? Whatever happened to working harder for the income you want?


Oh, OK...so now I have to go find a higher paying job or work more hours just to maintain the same level of income. Great! Well, at least you are finally acknowledging that political ideologies negatively impact me and my family. We're making some progress now.

You are so lost here. What don't you get? Someone's or some party's political ideology lead to the implementation of Obamacare. I now pay a higher premium, have a higher deductible, etc. which means less net income in my pocket every month. That is a negative impact to me that is a result of a political ideology. Your suggestion...work harder...so now we have another negative impact to me and my family.

Before Obamacare: Good health insurance policy, lower premiums, lower deductibles.

After Obamacare: Higher premiums, higher deductibles - both of which result in less money in my pocket. And according to you I must now work harder to maintain the same level of income.

So...a worse insurance policy, less money in my pocket, more work resulting in less free time to spend with my family and doing the things that I enjoy, etc. So tell me again how political ideologies have no impact on my life? And tell me again why I should not be opposed to something that negatively impacts me and my family?

And keep in mind that Obamacare is just one small example of how politics intersects with and impacts our lives.




What you and so many others failed to understand is that the ACA was intended so that everyone would be able to get insurance, but the premiums are set by the insurance companies. Just about every insurance companies made record profits after the ACA was passed.


Bhawk - 1/22/2017 at 10:44 PM

quote:
Someone's or some party's political ideology lead to the implementation of Obamacare.


Not entirely. Obamacare was a reaction to a legitimate societal need.

Medicare and Medicaid were heading down one of two paths: Complete insolvency, or, rescue from that insolvency via a massive tax crush that would start hitting as early as 2030, now not that far away.

As Medicare and Medicaid evolved over time, both parties ignored the Baby Boomer reality...eventually there was going to be waaaaay more claims paid out than there were workers paying in, simply by math.

The three main pillars of Obamacare:

1. Ban insurance companies from the pre-existing condition exemption from coverage - This is a win for the people that now would have insurance that did not have access before.
2. Mandate those without insurance to participate, or, pay a penalty. This is a win for the insurance companies who had to take on all those new customers with expensive conditions by balancing it with making those younger and healthier pay in, as that group tends to not use insurance as much. It also was originally concepted on a very basic conservative complaint - no free rides, everyone has to pay something.
3. More Americans have health insurance - This is a win for the government.

Three main groups, everyone gets something. This is the basic theory as originally presented by The Heritage Foundation, one of Washington's oldest and most respected conservative think tanks, and was also the basic framework for Bob Dole's heathcare plan on his 1996 Presidential campaign platform.

Not exactly so easily discernable by political ideology, now is it?

As to the premiums, the ACA left giant loopholes...there were no premium price controls at the Federal level, that was left to the states. Now there's 50 different states with 50 different insurance commissions, so while the Federal law enacted things, the states were left to run things, or opt in to the Medicaid provision to help offset the new administrative burden.

It should be noted that no matter one's level of regard for insurance companies, their motives and their profitability, it goes without saying that any premium increase can be made by any insurance company and they can blame Obamacare, the position of the Sun or the presence of demons as a reason to make that increase.

Premiums, like most other things, increase over time as adjusted with inflation. Let's say there's a full repeal and dismantling of the ACA. When premiums go up again, then who to blame?

After that, there's still the matter of millions of people now without insurance, which may or may not include the 76 million Baby Boomers getting older by the minute and a healthcare system that would be further behind the 8-ball than ever.

Then what do we do?


nebish - 1/22/2017 at 11:39 PM

These threads all go so many different directions of off topic.

quote:
What you and so many others failed to understand is that the ACA was intended so that everyone would be able to get insurance, but the premiums are set by the insurance companies. Just about every insurance companies made record profits after the ACA was passed.


So that is why United, Humana and Aetna are withdrawing from some state exchanges...too much profit?

I mean yeah, I get it...huge windfall for them, the government mandates that everyone must buy their product and have health insurance and if you can't afford to buy it the government subsidizes it. Something obviously went wrong or else these companies wouldn't be withdrawing.


Redfish7 - 1/23/2017 at 12:09 AM

quote:
Not entirely. Obamacare was a reaction to a legitimate societal need.


Even the idea that the government (or the taxpayers) is responsible for addressing that societal need is a political ideology, and one that not everyone shares. I stopped reading after this...so can't comment on your other points.


jkeller - 1/23/2017 at 12:14 AM

quote:
quote:
Not entirely. Obamacare was a reaction to a legitimate societal need.


Even the idea that the government (or the taxpayers) is responsible for addressing that societal need is a political ideology, and one that not everyone shares. I stopped reading after this...so can't comment on your other points.


So, building roads, schools, having police departments, fire departments, a standing military force to protect us are a political ideology? And that is bad?

Since you refused to read the rest of his post, we can add lazy and narrow minded to your list of perceived flaws.


Redfish7 - 1/23/2017 at 12:31 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Not entirely. Obamacare was a reaction to a legitimate societal need.


Even the idea that the government (or the taxpayers) is responsible for addressing that societal need is a political ideology, and one that not everyone shares. I stopped reading after this...so can't comment on your other points.


So, building roads, schools, having police departments, fire departments, a standing military force to protect us are a political ideology? And that is bad?

Since you refused to read the rest of his post, we can add lazy and narrow minded to your list of perceived flaws.


How one thinks we should go about doing those things, providing those services, and how we should pay for them is largely determined by one's political ideology. And I never said all government is bad, or that all political ideologies have negative impacts. I said that they can also have positive impacts. But if you had read my posts you would already know this. So I'm not the only lazy one.

And the primary point being debated was whether or not political ideology affects/impacts our lives. BoyntonBrother says "no". I say "yes". I used Obamacare as evidence that it does. Whether you are pro-OC or anti-OC is irrelevant (at least to the point being debated). The only question is...did Obamacare impact peoples' lives? I am living proof that it did. That's why I didn't read any further...I'm not interested in discussing the pros/cons of Obamacare.




alloak41 - 1/23/2017 at 01:04 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Wah wah, the government is to blame for your income now? Whatever happened to working harder for the income you want?


Oh, OK...so now I have to go find a higher paying job or work more hours just to maintain the same level of income. Great! Well, at least you are finally acknowledging that political ideologies negatively impact me and my family. We're making some progress now.

You are so lost here. What don't you get? Someone's or some party's political ideology lead to the implementation of Obamacare. I now pay a higher premium, have a higher deductible, etc. which means less net income in my pocket every month. That is a negative impact to me that is a result of a political ideology. Your suggestion...work harder...so now we have another negative impact to me and my family.

Before Obamacare: Good health insurance policy, lower premiums, lower deductibles.

After Obamacare: Higher premiums, higher deductibles - both of which result in less money in my pocket. And according to you I must now work harder to maintain the same level of income.

So...a worse insurance policy, less money in my pocket, more work resulting in less free time to spend with my family and doing the things that I enjoy, etc. So tell me again how political ideologies have no impact on my life? And tell me again why I should not be opposed to something that negatively impacts me and my family?

And keep in mind that Obamacare is just one small example of how politics intersects with and impacts our lives.




What you and so many others failed to understand is that the ACA was intended so that everyone would be able to get insurance, but the premiums are set by the insurance companies.


Set by the insurance companies after the government forced them into what to include in their policies, who and what to cover.

Not that that would effect prices.


Redfish7 - 1/23/2017 at 01:18 AM

quote:
quote:
So I guess that makes it OK? Didn't we just have the double standard/hypocrisy discussion? If these folks thought it was vulgar, shouldn't they have tried to rise above that vulgarity and have a higher standard? If Trump thinks that some women are nasty and vulgar...well, I would have to say that many of them proved him right yesterday. Would it not have been better to come out and be classy, intelligent, and articulate as a response to Trump? Instead they protested vulgarity by being equally vulgar. And my questions/comments are directed at the ones who acted that way. I realize that they are not representative of all women or all of the protestors.


It's called context, they reappropriated his own words. Often times, quite sharply and wittily. They are responding to what they found insulting. How do you protest words and actions you find horrible by extracting them from your own protest? And how vulgar is "nasty" - what are you a Puritan? They peacefully protested? That is about as classy as you can get. You want them to burn Trump in effigy as many did Obama in 2008? You may not agree with what they protested, but you can't argue with how they protested.


I don't have a problem with them protesting...it’s their right…but apparently some of the stuff they were doing was too lewd and vulgar to even show on the news. And you know there were kids and teenagers at the march. I thought back to the commercial that Hillary had during the campaign...the one that showed the kids watching all of Trump's antics. But I guess it was OK for these same kids and young people to see the vulgar things that were displayed at the march...and I'm sure these kids totally understood the context (sarcasm). And I guess we just have different perspectives on what classy is. And, yes...I get what they were doing, and the context and all...but to protest vulgarity with more vulgarity is hypocritical in my book. Not to mention that women who are pro-life were not allowed to partner with the march. So much for women being united, and all that diversity and inclusiveness BS...

It would have been nice if Trump had in some way acknowledged the folks at the march...let them know that he hears them, ease some of their concerns, etc. And going forward it would be great if he would set up some town halls or other types of forums with some representatives of those groups and have some open dialog with them. I know...that's crazy talk...and I won't hold my breath, but I think that would be a great move on his part if he really wants to start healing some of the division in this country.

[Edited on 1/23/2017 by Redfish7]


Bhawk - 1/23/2017 at 01:21 AM

quote:

So that is why United, Humana and Aetna are withdrawing from some state exchanges...too much profit?



Why aren't they withdrawing from them all?


Bhawk - 1/23/2017 at 01:29 AM

quote:
quote:
Not entirely. Obamacare was a reaction to a legitimate societal need.


Even the idea that the government (or the taxpayers) is responsible for addressing that societal need is a political ideology, and one that not everyone shares. I stopped reading after this...so can't comment on your other points.


If no change had been made, by 2040 Medicare and Medicaid spending would require 40% (yes, 40%) of GDP.

The tax rate would have to go to 50% for everyone to cover that.

That has nothing to do with political ideology, that's fiscal reality.

You might go ahead and say that Medicare and Medicaid are bad programs too. That doesn't change the fact that millions of people had Medicare deductions taken out of the paychecks for most or all of their working lives and still may face having no assistance at all when the time comes.

There's still the matter of millions of people not having insurance, which may or may not include the 76 million Baby Boomers getting older by the minute and a healthcare system that would be further behind the 8-ball than ever.

Then what do we do?


Bhawk - 1/23/2017 at 01:31 AM

quote:
Whether you are pro-OC or anti-OC is irrelevant (at least to the point being debated). The only question is...did Obamacare impact peoples' lives? I am living proof that it did. That's why I didn't read any further...I'm not interested in discussing the pros/cons of Obamacare.


So, get rid of it. Then what?


Redfish7 - 1/23/2017 at 01:47 AM

Bhawk - just to be clear...the point being discussed/debated was whether or not political ideology impacts our lives, either for good or bad. Are you actually siding with BoyntonBrother in trying to claim that it does not impact our lives?

I don't care to debate the pros/cons of OC, or how we fix it, or what we do after Trump dismantles it, etc. The only reason that it came up was as an example of how political ideology impacts our lives.

The belief that the right to health care is a basic human right, or that money should be taken out of Joe's pocket to pay for Bill's health insurance, or that the government should be involved in regulating/mandating health care in any way whatsoever, etc....those basic presuppositions are part of a political ideology whether you care to admit it or not. Is there a fiscal aspect also. Sure, OK...but that doesn't negate the political ideology behind it.



[Edited on 1/23/2017 by Redfish7]


BoytonBrother - 1/23/2017 at 01:53 AM

quote:
How one thinks we should go about doing those things, providing those services, and how we should pay for them is largely determined by one's political ideology.


I'm pretty sure both Democrats and Republicans agreed that taxes would pay for those things.

quote:
And the primary point being debated was whether or not political ideology affects/impacts our lives. BoyntonBrother says "no". I say "yes". I used Obamacare as evidence that it does.


I was referring to how it evidently affects you emotionally based on your previous posts.


BoytonBrother - 1/23/2017 at 02:01 AM

quote:
But I guess it was OK for these same kids and young people to see the vulgar things that were displayed at the march...


Only you have said that. And what was so vulgar? Any links?

quote:
Not to mention that women who are pro-life were not allowed to partner with the march. So much for women being united, and all that diversity and inclusiveness BS...


What do you mean? My pro-life co-worker went to the D.C. one and had a great time. Where do you get your info?


Redfish7 - 1/23/2017 at 02:02 AM

quote:
quote:
I disagree with Bhawk in one sense. Trolls know what they are doing. I just think you don't have the capacity to know any better.


Well...that's not fair, really. Redfish7 hasn't been posting in the WP long enough to make a conclusion like that. Benefit of the doubt still in clear play from my chair.


Haha...I missed this earlier. So...what kind of time frame are we looking at here?...just so I will know when my "benefit of the doubt" trial period runs out? And what metric are we using...calendar days or number of posts?

So far...I'm up to dishonest, troll, lazy and narrow minded.


alloak41 - 1/23/2017 at 02:24 AM

quote:
I disagree with Bhawk in one sense. Trolls know what they are doing. I just think you don't have the capacity to know any better.


Well...that's not fair, really. Redfish7 hasn't been posting in the WP long enough to make a conclusion like that. Benefit of the doubt still in clear play from my chair.


Haha...I missed this earlier. So...what kind of time frame are we looking at here?...just so I will know when my "benefit of the doubt" trial period runs out? And what metric are we using...calendar days or number of posts?

So far...I'm up to dishonest, troll, lazy and narrow minded.



Just wait, it gets a whole lot better.


Bhawk - 1/23/2017 at 02:26 AM

quote:
Bhawk - just to be clear...the point being discussed/debated was whether or not political ideology impacts our lives, either for good or bad. Are you actually siding with BoyntonBrother in trying to claim that it does not impact our lives?

I don't care to debate the pros/cons of OC, or how we fix it, or what we do after Trump dismantles it, etc. The only reason that it came up was as an example of how political ideology impacts our lives.

The belief that the right to health care is a basic human right, or that money should be taken out of Joe's pocket to pay for Bill's health insurance, or that the government should be involved in regulating/mandating health care in any way whatsoever, etc....those basic presuppositions are part of a political ideology whether you care to admit it or not. Is there a fiscal aspect also. Sure, OK...but that doesn't negate the political ideology behind it.



The original tenets of what became the Affordable Care Act was concepted by a conservative think tank and was on the platform of a Republican presidential candidate. So, the question is, whose ideology drove what?

If you are going to claim effects of political ideology, where does it apply in matters of consensus? In this case, ideology defined the opposition to an act of government because a tenet of that ideology dictates that the opponent, the enemy, is not allowed a "victory," regardless of if it a positive or negative for the citizenry.

The Republicans could have sold this exact same plan if they had framed it using the "everyone must pay something, no freeloaders" approach. Now, that's an example of using ideology.

It also looks like you tend to start with the extremes of an ideology. Why?


Bhawk - 1/23/2017 at 02:27 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
I disagree with Bhawk in one sense. Trolls know what they are doing. I just think you don't have the capacity to know any better.


Well...that's not fair, really. Redfish7 hasn't been posting in the WP long enough to make a conclusion like that. Benefit of the doubt still in clear play from my chair.


Haha...I missed this earlier. So...what kind of time frame are we looking at here?...just so I will know when my "benefit of the doubt" trial period runs out? And what metric are we using...calendar days or number of posts?

So far...I'm up to dishonest, troll, lazy and narrow minded.




I thought BB was getting too close to insulting you and said so. How you interpret that is up to you.


Bhawk - 1/23/2017 at 02:28 AM

quote:
quote:
I disagree with Bhawk in one sense. Trolls know what they are doing. I just think you don't have the capacity to know any better.


Well...that's not fair, really. Redfish7 hasn't been posting in the WP long enough to make a conclusion like that. Benefit of the doubt still in clear play from my chair.


Haha...I missed this earlier. So...what kind of time frame are we looking at here?...just so I will know when my "benefit of the doubt" trial period runs out? And what metric are we using...calendar days or number of posts?

So far...I'm up to dishonest, troll, lazy and narrow minded.



Just wait, it gets a whole lot better.


Contempt is equally returned when given.


alloak41 - 1/23/2017 at 02:32 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
I disagree with Bhawk in one sense. Trolls know what they are doing. I just think you don't have the capacity to know any better.


Well...that's not fair, really. Redfish7 hasn't been posting in the WP long enough to make a conclusion like that. Benefit of the doubt still in clear play from my chair.


Haha...I missed this earlier. So...what kind of time frame are we looking at here?...just so I will know when my "benefit of the doubt" trial period runs out? And what metric are we using...calendar days or number of posts?

So far...I'm up to dishonest, troll, lazy and narrow minded.



Just wait, it gets a whole lot better.


Contempt is equally returned when given.


Equally? Contempt is "returned" whether it's given or not.


Redfish7 - 1/23/2017 at 02:33 AM

quote:
quote:
But I guess it was OK for these same kids and young people to see the vulgar things that were displayed at the march...


Only you have said that. And what was so vulgar? Any links?

quote:
Not to mention that women who are pro-life were not allowed to partner with the march. So much for women being united, and all that diversity and inclusiveness BS...


What do you mean? My pro-life co-worker went to the D.C. one and had a great time. Where do you get your info?


It was reported on the news yesterday...lots of vulgar speech, lewd content and pictures on signs (some of it of a sexual nature), women dressed like vaginas, signs with "F**k Trump", people spitting on people, Madonna talking about blowing up the white house, etc...not a great environment for children or young people.

The exclusion of the pro-life group was also reported on the news. They interviewed someone from the pro-life group. Later I saw another interview with someone from one of the pro-choice groups, and the reporter was somewhat calling her out for it...you know, asking her why the pro-life women were excluded if it was supposed to be about all women, solidarity, etc.

Sorry...I don't recall specific names, or have links, etc...and I was switching around between CNN, Fox and others...so I don't even recall which news show/channel it was on. If you're really interested in the details, then just google it.

And I didn't mean that no pro-life women attended the march. Anyone who wanted to attend could go. Heck, there were even some Trump supporters there. Imagine that...women who voted for Trump.

But apparently there was a large, well organized and coordinated march that groups had to apply for if they wanted to partner with it. This pro-life group was initially accepted and had planned to be a part of that specific march. But then when the organizers of the march found out that they were a pro-life group, they changed their mind and told them they weren't welcome. Gotta love that inclusiveness.


nebish - 1/23/2017 at 02:36 AM

quote:
quote:
These threads all go so many different directions of off topic


What the heck does this have to do with the topic? If you want to talk about people posting off-topic, start another thread!


An observation that in a thread about impeaching Trump the discussion moved to ACA. Sorry such a comment has appeared to offend you so much.


Bhawk - 1/23/2017 at 02:42 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I disagree with Bhawk in one sense. Trolls know what they are doing. I just think you don't have the capacity to know any better.


Well...that's not fair, really. Redfish7 hasn't been posting in the WP long enough to make a conclusion like that. Benefit of the doubt still in clear play from my chair.


Haha...I missed this earlier. So...what kind of time frame are we looking at here?...just so I will know when my "benefit of the doubt" trial period runs out? And what metric are we using...calendar days or number of posts?

So far...I'm up to dishonest, troll, lazy and narrow minded.



Just wait, it gets a whole lot better.


Contempt is equally returned when given.


Equally? Contempt is "returned" whether it's given or not.


Snowflake need a safe space?

Oh, that's right. You don't hate liberals and Democrats, don't wish to eradicate entire belief systems. Musta forgot. Uh-huh.

Lines are drawn. Everyone involved drew them. Here we are.


Redfish7 - 1/23/2017 at 02:48 AM


I'm pretty sure both Democrats and Republicans agreed that taxes would pay for those things.


And I suppose the belief/presupposition that involuntary taxation should be used to pay for those things is not a political ideology? Anarcho-capitalists, voluntaryists, some schools of libertarianism, and many others would heartily disagree.

So even your most basic assumption about how society should operate is based on a political ideology.


alloak41 - 1/23/2017 at 02:54 AM

quote:
So far...I'm up to dishonest, troll, lazy and narrow minded.

Just wait, it gets a whole lot better.


Contempt is equally returned when given.


Equally? Contempt is "returned" whether it's given or not.


Lines are drawn. Everyone involved drew them. Here we are.


That's right, and as of five minutes ago I decided to cross the line and post as a Liberal.

How's that sound, moron?


Bhawk - 1/23/2017 at 03:02 AM

quote:

I'm pretty sure both Democrats and Republicans agreed that taxes would pay for those things.


And I suppose the belief/presupposition that involuntary taxation should be used to pay for those things is not a political ideology? Anarcho-capitalists, voluntaryists, some schools of libertarianism, and many others would heartily disagree.

So even your most basic assumption about how society should operate is based on a political ideology.




quote:
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States


Which ideology is that, label-wise, do you think? What should we call it?


Redfish7 - 1/23/2017 at 03:11 AM

quote:
quote:
Bhawk - just to be clear...the point being discussed/debated was whether or not political ideology impacts our lives, either for good or bad. Are you actually siding with BoyntonBrother in trying to claim that it does not impact our lives?

I don't care to debate the pros/cons of OC, or how we fix it, or what we do after Trump dismantles it, etc. The only reason that it came up was as an example of how political ideology impacts our lives.

The belief that the right to health care is a basic human right, or that money should be taken out of Joe's pocket to pay for Bill's health insurance, or that the government should be involved in regulating/mandating health care in any way whatsoever, etc....those basic presuppositions are part of a political ideology whether you care to admit it or not. Is there a fiscal aspect also. Sure, OK...but that doesn't negate the political ideology behind it.



The original tenets of what became the Affordable Care Act was concepted by a conservative think tank and was on the platform of a Republican presidential candidate. So, the question is, whose ideology drove what?

If you are going to claim effects of political ideology, where does it apply in matters of consensus? In this case, ideology defined the opposition to an act of government because a tenet of that ideology dictates that the opponent, the enemy, is not allowed a "victory," regardless of if it a positive or negative for the citizenry.

The Republicans could have sold this exact same plan if they had framed it using the "everyone must pay something, no freeloaders" approach. Now, that's an example of using ideology.

It also looks like you tend to start with the extremes of an ideology. Why?


Yep, if I recall correctly…I believe Mitt Romney came up with the model/prototype for what later became the ACA. Obama stole it from Mitt, and we have Republicans and Democrats both to blame for it.

Again…the debate was simply over whether or not political ideology impacts our lives. It wasn’t about whose political ideology impacts our lives. Both liberal/conservative ideology have impacts…some negative and some positive. In fact, I even used US foreign policy/the Bush Doctrine as another example, and showed how that particular ideology resulted in the unnecessary deaths/displacement of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

By the way, I know you will find this hard to believe (due to the conclusions that you have drawn about me), but if I had been active on this forum during the Bush regime, I would have been accused of being a liberal…trust me on that…I was just as critical of Bush, probably more so, as I am of Obama. Bush was a real tool also.

What do you mean that I start with the extremes of an ideology?


Bhawk - 1/23/2017 at 03:17 AM

quote:
quote:
So far...I'm up to dishonest, troll, lazy and narrow minded.

Just wait, it gets a whole lot better.


Contempt is equally returned when given.


Equally? Contempt is "returned" whether it's given or not.


Lines are drawn. Everyone involved drew them. Here we are.


That's right, and as of five minutes ago I decided to cross the line and post as a Liberal.

How's that sound, moron?


Yes, only liberals insult people. Yawn. The alloak manifesto of conservative perfection. Well established.


Redfish7 - 1/23/2017 at 03:19 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I disagree with Bhawk in one sense. Trolls know what they are doing. I just think you don't have the capacity to know any better.


Well...that's not fair, really. Redfish7 hasn't been posting in the WP long enough to make a conclusion like that. Benefit of the doubt still in clear play from my chair.


Haha...I missed this earlier. So...what kind of time frame are we looking at here?...just so I will know when my "benefit of the doubt" trial period runs out? And what metric are we using...calendar days or number of posts?

So far...I'm up to dishonest, troll, lazy and narrow minded.




I thought BB was getting too close to insulting you and said so. How you interpret that is up to you.


I was actually trying to mess with you...joke around a little...hence the smiley/wink face. I know we've taken some jabs at each other, but it's all good.


Redfish7 - 1/23/2017 at 03:23 AM

quote:
quote:

I'm pretty sure both Democrats and Republicans agreed that taxes would pay for those things.


And I suppose the belief/presupposition that involuntary taxation should be used to pay for those things is not a political ideology? Anarcho-capitalists, voluntaryists, some schools of libertarianism, and many others would heartily disagree.

So even your most basic assumption about how society should operate is based on a political ideology.




quote:
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States


Which ideology is that, label-wise, do you think? What should we call it?


I have no idea. Republicanism, maybe? What difference does it matter what the label is?


BoytonBrother - 1/23/2017 at 01:56 PM

quote:
It was reported on the news yesterday...lots of vulgar speech, lewd content and pictures on signs (some of it of a sexual nature), women dressed like vaginas, signs with "F**k Trump", people spitting on people, Madonna talking about blowing up the white house, etc...not a great environment for children or young people.


"Reported on the news", I'll assume was some hack with an agenda, not an actual reporter, unless you have something. If those actions are so vulgar, why elect Trump as President who behaved the same way?


porkchopbob - 1/23/2017 at 02:06 PM

quote:
It was reported on the news yesterday...lots of vulgar speech, lewd content and pictures on signs (some of it of a sexual nature), women dressed like vaginas, signs with "F**k Trump", people spitting on people, Madonna talking about blowing up the white house, etc...not a great environment for children or young people.


I have friends who marched in NYC, DC, LA, Chicago, and they all said it was peaceful. Many brought their kids, and it was a completely positive experience of activism. No one spitting or talking about attacking anything, it was a show of unity of a lot of people who aren't offended by women's body parts against a President they strongly disagree with.


goldtop - 1/23/2017 at 03:39 PM

Day 4....Suit filed against Trump for ethics violations....that didn't take long

Redfish after your "are they butt hurt" comment I clearly understand how the disgusting things Trump says didn't bother you...and how you could possibly vote for him

That's the exact kind of talk that is disgusting....get it???

That protest was world wide not just here at home....Open your eyes

As far as the ACA....before the ACA my wife couldn't get insurance because she is type II diabetic....See before the only people who could get insurance had to have nothing wrong with them...

I guess that doesn't both you because you had to pay less....pretty phucking selfish...but that is the Republican way...if it doesn't directly effect me its not an issue


Redfish7 - 1/25/2017 at 01:28 AM

quote:
quote:
It was reported on the news yesterday...lots of vulgar speech, lewd content and pictures on signs (some of it of a sexual nature), women dressed like vaginas, signs with "F**k Trump", people spitting on people, Madonna talking about blowing up the white house, etc...not a great environment for children or young people.


"Reported on the news", I'll assume was some hack with an agenda, not an actual reporter, unless you have something. If those actions are so vulgar, why elect Trump as President who behaved the same way?


No, it was actual reporters on the major networks…and not just one reporter, or one news show. Did these reporters have an agenda? Well, of course…don’t all reporters and news outlets have an agenda?

And your last sentence is exactly the point I was making…just using the reverse logic. If Trump behaved like that…and that’s supposedly why they are so offended…then it’s hypocritical for them to behave the same way.


Redfish7 - 1/25/2017 at 01:31 AM

quote:
quote:
It was reported on the news yesterday...lots of vulgar speech, lewd content and pictures on signs (some of it of a sexual nature), women dressed like vaginas, signs with "F**k Trump", people spitting on people, Madonna talking about blowing up the white house, etc...not a great environment for children or young people.


I have friends who marched in NYC, DC, LA, Chicago, and they all said it was peaceful. Many brought their kids, and it was a completely positive experience of activism. No one spitting or talking about attacking anything, it was a show of unity of a lot of people who aren't offended by women's body parts against a President they strongly disagree with.


It’s great that your friends had a positive experience, but the fact that your friends didn’t happen to see any of the stuff being reported on the news is hardly evidence that it didn’t happen. I’m sure not everyone at the inauguration witnessed a limo and trash cans being burned either? Does that mean it didn’t happen?

And no comments on the Ashley Judd meltdown?…Trump is Hitler, his cabinet is a bunch of Nazis, he has wet dreams about his daughter, blood on the sheets, the prison system is a form of slavery, etc.…what a raving lunatic (or poet in this case)…makes Bocephus look like a saint. And Madonna’s fantasies about blowing up the white house? Yep…that sure is some classy celebrity gals they got to be the face of the march. And they think Trump is vulgar and full of hate?


Redfish7 - 1/25/2017 at 01:38 AM

quote:
Day 4....Suit filed against Trump for ethics violations....that didn't take long

Redfish after your "are they butt hurt" comment I clearly understand how the disgusting things Trump says didn't bother you...and how you could possibly vote for him

That's the exact kind of talk that is disgusting....get it???

That protest was world wide not just here at home....Open your eyes

As far as the ACA....before the ACA my wife couldn't get insurance because she is type II diabetic....See before the only people who could get insurance had to have nothing wrong with them...

I guess that doesn't both you because you had to pay less....pretty phucking selfish...but that is the Republican way...if it doesn't directly effect me its not an issue


Didn’t vote for Trump. Not a Republican. Don’t consider myself a selfish person. My sister is an unemployed widow raising a daughter, and she could not even afford the ACA premiums…I thought it was supposed to be “affordable” for folks just like my sister...but then again, I also thought I could keep my policy if I liked my policy. And I never said that it didn’t help anyone. I was just sharing my personal experience with it. I guess it’s helped some folks, and hurt lots of others...and in some cases it's not even helped the people that you would think that it should help (like my sister).


goldtop - 2/10/2017 at 11:13 PM

Please sign this petition to impeach Trump

https://impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org/thank-you/?key=42056317

The wheels are turning


nebish - 2/13/2017 at 01:22 AM

I like the Dead Kennedys. I like views that are not the same as my own. It's all about presentation and the delivery of the argument for me. That is why I listen to different points of view on talk radio and that is why I enjoy engaging in these forums and why I like politically charged music that is artfully crafted.

I don't know who would be calling for "extermination" of Trump opponents. Again another pretty radical view you've posted. I'd like to think it is done with sarcasm, but maybe you really feel that way.

Surely there are people on the right who despise the left and those on the left who despise the right, but anyone from any side who might justify death of their political opponents, to the extent people like that exist we must be talking about a sliver of a percentage of people.

You and I may not agree on a host of issues, but rest assured I would have you in my home or buy you a drink and allow you to express yourself as know you would of me. I just try to draw a very visible and distinct line between the very small group of people you speak of and other people, like myself and I suspect others here who voted for the President and support some of his agenda items, but do not wish his opponents any harm. I hope you do not wish me harm in return for feeling different than you on foreign policy, immigration, taxes, etc.

[Edited on 2/13/2017 by nebish]


nebish - 2/13/2017 at 05:13 AM

quote:
What's with this "extreme view" thing you keep on about?


I think that wanting Mexico to become a state, to open the border, to reach a settlement in back pay and benefits for illegal workers...now Trump supporters would applaud open warfare, even extermination, of their opponents.

Sounds extreme to me.

I guess you not wanting to sign a petition to impeach the President for fear of putting your name out there is kind of like people not wanting a national gun registry with their name and location of listed guns for fear of the government coming to get them. In that, you have something in common, fear of the government, fear on one had that government would someday confiscate firearms and on the other hand fear the government might exterminate dissenters. I don't know, sounds extreme. But different perspectives lead to different feelings.


goldtop - 2/13/2017 at 06:03 AM

quote:
Goldtop - quite honestly I think that could be signing my own death warrant. Anyone who signs that will call the Nazgul upon themselves. It is entirely possible that they are gathering up voting records, ostensibly for popular vote recount, to compile a database of undesirables.

Hemp's Bannon thread pretty much nails it.

As Jello Biafra said so long ago: It is "Bedtime for Democracy".


I signed it and I don't care that they know...In fact I want Trump to fully understand that I think he is disgusting .....I'd have no problem telling Mr Trump exactly how I feel about him to his face...


LeglizHemp - 2/13/2017 at 02:09 PM

I think we are getting very close to starting Impeachment hearings. Trump better slow down and figure out how the office of the Presidency works or he will be out the door by the end of the year.


Bhawk - 2/13/2017 at 03:23 PM

quote:
I think we are getting very close to starting Impeachment hearings. Trump better slow down and figure out how the office of the Presidency works or he will be out the door by the end of the year.


On what charge? By the current GOP? Impeachment charges come from the House.


LeglizHemp - 2/13/2017 at 03:30 PM

i just said "very close". they are walking right up to the line with their rhetoric but so far not with their actions. if they start ignoring court orders that would be one way. emoluments clause might be another. if proof of colusion with the russians is found, there is another. we'll just have to wait and see bhawk.


Bhawk - 2/13/2017 at 03:31 PM

quote:
In that, you have something in common, fear of the government, fear on one had that government would someday confiscate firearms and on the other hand fear the government might exterminate dissenters. I don't know, sounds extreme. But different perspectives lead to different feelings.



The government is made up of people who occupy constant transitive jobs. If human history is a guide, there's a strong chance that someone would come along that oversteps the powers they have been given. Just because someone exhibiting those traits happens to be a guy on your team and therefore they get a longer benefit of the doubt, then that's the ultimate example of party before country, something that has always been around but seems to be getting worse.

I continue to find Trump's consistent attacks on the independent judiciary absolutely terrifying. The President personally attacking Federal judges by name IS EXTREME.


LeglizHemp - 2/13/2017 at 03:41 PM

and yes the house is stacked with republicans and impeachment won't come today. but i don't believe he has as much support in the GOP as some think and it is slowly eroding. i believe alot of his support before the election had to do with hating clinton and party loyalty and tea party loyalty. i don't believe trump is a republican and that his support will fall away if he keeps throwing the constitution into the blender. like i said, we'll see.


Brendan - 2/13/2017 at 03:42 PM

Is this rhetoric not extreme?

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/-what-stephen-miller-said-should-wor ry-everyone-875968067895


Bhawk - 2/13/2017 at 03:43 PM

quote:
and yes the house is stacked with republicans and impeachment won't come today. but i don't believe he has as much support in the GOP as some think and it is slowly eroding. i believe alot of his support before the election had to do with hating clinton and party loyalty and tea party loyalty. i don't believe trump is a republican and that his support will fall away if he keeps throwing the constitution into the blender. like i said, we'll see.


I largely agree...just cynical.


Bhawk - 2/13/2017 at 03:44 PM

These weekend trips to Mar-A-Lago, profiteering? Who is joining? Who has access? All the employees there...do they all have a security clearance?


Bhawk - 2/13/2017 at 03:46 PM

quote:
Is this rhetoric not extreme?

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/-what-stephen-miller-said-should-wor ry-everyone-875968067895


That's not what he meant. He was talking about the funny ha-ha kind of quelling dissent.


BoytonBrother - 2/13/2017 at 03:49 PM

Trump and is his supporters are the most insecure people in the history of our country.


LeglizHemp - 2/13/2017 at 03:49 PM

quote:
These weekend trips to Mar-A-Lago, profiteering? Who is joining? Who has access? All the employees there...do they all have a security clearance?


supposedly he was having national security discussions with Abe at the dinner table with guests present. if classified intelligence was discussed openly.............

(CNN)The iceberg wedge salads, dripping with blue cheese dressing, had just been served on the terrace of Mar-a-Lago Saturday when the call to President Donald Trump came in: North Korea had launched an intermediate-range ballistic missile, its first challenge to international rules since Trump was sworn in three weeks ago.

The launch, which wasn't expected, presented Trump with one of the first breaking national security incidents of his presidency. It also noisily disrupted what was meant to be an easygoing weekend of high-level male bonding with the more sobering aspects of global diplomacy.

Sitting alongside Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, with whom he'd spent most of the day golfing, Trump took the call on a mobile phone at his table, which was set squarely in the middle of the private club's dining area.

As Mar-a-Lago's wealthy members looked on from their tables, and with a keyboard player crooning in the background, Trump and Abe's evening meal quickly morphed into a strategy session, the decision-making on full view to fellow diners, who described it in detail to CNN.

On Saturday evening, as the two men walked through Mar-a-Lago's ornate wrought-iron doors on their way to dinner, neither responded to questions about the launch from reporters.
Swanning through the club's living room and main dining area alongside Abe, Trump was -- as is now typical -- swarmed with paying members, who now view dinner at the club as an opportunity for a few seconds of face time with the new President.

But as he sat down for the planned working dinner with Abe, whose country is well within range of North Korea's missiles, it was clear his counterpart felt it necessary to respond to the test. The launch occurred just before 8 a.m. on Sunday morning in Japan.

Trump's National Security Adviser Michael Flynn and chief strategist Steve Bannon left their seats to huddle closer to Trump as documents were produced and phone calls were placed to officials in Washington and Tokyo.

The patio was lit only with candles and moonlight, so aides used the camera lights on their phones to help the stone-faced Trump and Abe read through the documents.

Even as a flurry of advisers and translators descended upon the table carrying papers and phones for their bosses to consult, dinner itself proceeded apace. Waiters cleared the wedge salads and brought along the main course as Trump and Abe continued consulting with aides.

Eventually Trump and Abe, along with their collection of aides, stood and moved from the dining terrace and toward a marble-trimmed ballroom, whose gilded columns were concealed by more sober-looking black drapes.

[Edited on 2/13/2017 by LeglizHemp]


goldtop - 4/20/2019 at 11:20 PM

Just thought I'd revisit this thread....OK...can we impeach him now


MartinD28 - 4/20/2019 at 11:50 PM

quote:
Just thought I'd revisit this thread....OK...can we impeach him now


Regardless of the intent by Trump as detailed in Mueller's Report, the base and GOP enablers in Congress will fall in line and be good little soldiers and parrot Trump's lines referencing the democrat prosecutors bias on the Mueller Team, etc.

My goodness - look how many of Trump's inner circle worked with the Russians and lied about it. What has the presidency come to? And the people's Congress willing to turn their head along with a lackey Attorney General whose words have been disputed by Mueller's Report.

Unless enough of the GOP in Congress step up and show they have values & guts, impeachment is an exercise in futility.


goldtop - 4/21/2019 at 12:41 AM

quote:
quote:
Just thought I'd revisit this thread....OK...can we impeach him now


Regardless of the intent by Trump as detailed in Mueller's Report, the base and GOP enablers in Congress will fall in line and be good little soldiers and parrot Trump's lines referencing the democrat prosecutors bias on the Mueller Team, etc.

My goodness - look how many of Trump's inner circle worked with the Russians and lied about it. What has the presidency come to? And the people's Congress willing to turn their head along with a lackey Attorney General whose words have been disputed by Mueller's Report.

Unless enough of the GOP in Congress step up and show they have values & guts, impeachment is an exercise in futility.


So true...everyday since he's been in office I will never understand why anyone would protect that vile disgusting person...I'd would have throw his azz under the bus so long ago it would have made his head swim....and how I would love to be his truth teller everyday...I'd love to let him know the truth and watch him explode....and I'd laugh in his face as he did...everyday


alloak41 - 4/25/2019 at 03:15 PM

quote:
Trump and is his supporters are the most insecure people in the history of our country.


God, I know! I'd feel a lot more secure if the government could just fork over my guaranteed Universal Income already. I have no confidence in myself or my abilities, and shouldn't have to compete in the workplace anymore.
And I need the government to pay my debts for me while they're at it.


BoytonBrother - 4/25/2019 at 04:23 PM

quote:
I'd feel a lot more secure if the government could just fork over my guaranteed Universal Income already. I have no confidence in myself or my abilities, and shouldn't have to compete in the workplace anymore.
And I need the government to pay my debts for me while they're at it.


Here you are feeling the need to announce to us all that you earned your own income, have confidence in your own abilities, compete in the workplace, and pay your debts. Instead of thinking rationally about what is being proposed, you took the opportunity to pat yourself on the back for what you have done. Why? Because you earned those things on your own, it angers you that others are getting help with it? That's not someone who is at peace with their situation.


BIGV - 4/25/2019 at 07:50 PM

quote:
quote:
Trump and is his supporters are the most insecure people in the history of our country.


God, I know! I'd feel a lot more secure if the government could just fork over my guaranteed Universal Income already. I have no confidence in myself or my abilities, and shouldn't have to compete in the workplace anymore.
And I need the government to pay my debts for me while they're at it.


I agree with you wholeheartedly, just make life free for everyone, similar to the Democrats proposal of free College. Don’t want to work? The Democrats will make it their priority to come to the rescue, because well , white privelage....


gina - 4/25/2019 at 09:08 PM

Lindsey Graham said the Democrats will try to impeach him, he also said Pelosi was NOT in charge of them, but he said any impeachment proceedings would have "a hard time" getting through (pr passed by the Senate), so if one house passes them and the other doesn't, it probably goes nowhere.


BoytonBrother - 4/25/2019 at 09:39 PM

quote:
Don’t want to work? The Democrats will make it their priority to come to the rescue, because well , white privelage....


Somebody is envious of receiving help.




[Edited on 4/25/2019 by BoytonBrother]


piacere - 4/25/2019 at 11:33 PM

quote:
quote:
Don’t want to work? The Democrats will make it their priority to come to the rescue, because well , white privelage....


Somebody is envious of receiving help.






[Edited on 4/25/2019 by BoytonBrother]


You're kidding, right?

[Edited on 4/25/2019 by piacere]


BoytonBrother - 4/26/2019 at 12:05 AM

quote:
You're kidding, right?


About that particular poster? No, not at all.


alloak41 - 4/26/2019 at 02:13 AM

The only thing i feel the slightest bit apprehensive about now day to day is the difficulty in hiring. I need good workers badly. The supply of jobs svailable is outstripping the supply of labor and good csndidates.

So much for the economy crashing if Trump gets elected.


Sang - 4/26/2019 at 02:32 AM

With the debt rising at record rates, who knows?

I was at a financial planner meeting tonight. The Cleveland fed has the chance of a recession at over 30%..... whenever it goes that high, the recession typically is -5 to 8 months from then ...... it's coming.....


nebish - 4/26/2019 at 02:43 AM

quote:
With the debt rising at record rates, who knows?

I was at a financial planner meeting tonight. The Cleveland fed has the chance of a recession at over 30%..... whenever it goes that high, the recession typically is -5 to 8 months from then ...... it's coming.....


I'm waiting for it too Sang...just because it is overdue if nothing else. But periods of expansion don't just die of old age. So what if, let me know if anyone mentioned this at your meeting, what if countries around the globe can pick up their own sluggish economies with fiscal stimulus plans? If global economies grow, won't the US be a beneficiary of that which could in turn prolong our own expansion?


BIGV - 4/26/2019 at 03:14 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Don’t want to work? The Democrats will make it their priority to come to the rescue, because well , white privelage....


Somebody is envious of receiving help.


You're kidding, right?


Just consider the source


Sang - 4/26/2019 at 03:37 AM

quote:
quote:
With the debt rising at record rates, who knows?

I was at a financial planner meeting tonight. The Cleveland fed has the chance of a recession at over 30%..... whenever it goes that high, the recession typically is -5 to 8 months from then ...... it's coming.....


I'm waiting for it too Sang...just because it is overdue if nothing else. But periods of expansion don't just die of old age. So what if, let me know if anyone mentioned this at your meeting, what if countries around the globe can pick up their own sluggish economies with fiscal stimulus plans? If global economies grow, won't the US be a beneficiary of that which could in turn prolong our own expansion?



That was not mentioned. Germany and Japan are still in the negative on 10-year bonds - but international and emerging markets are still cheap compared to the US, and are expected to have higher earnings than the US this year - the US blew everyone away last year in earnings because of the tax cuts - 24% - but this year they expect 3%, with international and emerging around 6%.


BIGV - 4/26/2019 at 04:02 AM


BrerRabbit - 4/26/2019 at 04:31 AM

Damn, no evidence. Someone should have kept his blue dress after his private meeting with Vladmir.


BoytonBrother - 4/26/2019 at 10:41 AM

Not a fan of the impeachment route. I'd rather see him get voted out. Being a one-term President would say everything there is to say.



[Edited on 4/26/2019 by BoytonBrother]


BoytonBrother - 4/26/2019 at 10:45 AM

quote:
The only thing i feel the slightest bit apprehensive about now day to day is the difficulty in hiring. I need good workers badly. The supply of jobs svailable is outstripping the supply of labor and good candidates


It’s hard to find good American workers? Shocking! What’s the solution?


tbomike - 4/26/2019 at 06:58 PM

Gee that noted leftist from Fox Judge Nap thinks there is something there.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/judge-andrew-napolitano-did-president-trump -obstruct-justice


BrerRabbit - 4/26/2019 at 07:45 PM

Interesting article, but Napolitano is a hardcore Libertarian so whatever.


Bhawk - 4/26/2019 at 07:50 PM

quote:



Is the distraught girl supposed to represent Robert Mueller?


BrerRabbit - 4/26/2019 at 07:54 PM

I don't know, but the shrink could be Putin. Hell the meme itself could be generated by the ongoing Russian cyber psy-op.


goldtop - 4/26/2019 at 10:19 PM

quote:
I don't know, but the shrink could be Putin. Hell the meme itself could be generated by the ongoing Russian cyber psy-op.


I guess they also didn't read about the destruction of evidence that took place and what do supporters think of 12 points of obstruction of justice and the biggest question will always be if there was nothing going on why did so many people lie??

Seems Judge Napalitano thinks there's plenty along with one of his original member of his transition team and again why would anyone protect that vile disgusting azz

Check out his comments
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6029505643001/#sp=show-clips



[Edited on 4/26/2019 by goldtop]


OriginalGoober - 4/26/2019 at 10:58 PM

A hammer, a cell phone, bleach bit and the POTUS on speed dial is why you dont get charged.


BrerRabbit - 4/27/2019 at 12:06 AM

A hammer and a sickle is why you don't get charged.


gina - 4/30/2019 at 09:47 PM


https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/441301-biden-if-trump-blocks-in vestigations-congress-has-no-choice-but-to



goldtop - 4/30/2019 at 11:49 PM

Mueller has spoken

Mueller has written a letter objecting to Barr’s summary of his report because it “did not fully capture the context, nature and substance of the investigation.”


MartinD28 - 5/1/2019 at 01:21 AM

quote:
Mueller has spoken

Mueller has written a letter objecting to Barr’s summary of his report because it “did not fully capture the context, nature and substance of the investigation.”




Another lackey with loyalty to Russian Don is exposed for deception & lies. Anybody surprised? Good thing Trump drained the swamp in DC.


Chain - 5/1/2019 at 09:11 PM

As someone mentioned in another thread, Barr evidently argued that Iran/Contra was not a crime either. It seems to me he's been a lackey Republican operative his entire career in the beltway so it's not surprising he's providing cover for the latest Republican crook to occupy the White House.

It makes me wonder if he and opportunists like him care at all about the republic, the laws of the land, or in the constitution. It seems to be party first for not just Barr, but many of the slime balls who live in the swamp we call our capital.


nebish - 5/7/2019 at 04:40 AM

quote:
As someone mentioned in another thread, Barr evidently argued that Iran/Contra was not a crime either. It seems to me he's been a lackey Republican operative his entire career in the beltway so it's not surprising he's providing cover for the latest Republican crook to occupy the White House.

It makes me wonder if he and opportunists like him care at all about the republic, the laws of the land, or in the constitution. It seems to be party first for not just Barr, but many of the slime balls who live in the swamp we call our capital.


You are right. Nobody should be surprised that one party or the other or any of their representatives have their own motives and agendas.

How many representatives actually care about the republic above their own agendas? There in lies the problem.


goldtop - 5/21/2019 at 10:13 PM

One step closer today....tick tock....was bound to happen since he went down the elevator....he's a scum bag people an embarrassment to our country


BrerRabbit - 5/21/2019 at 10:28 PM

wha happen?


goldtop - 5/21/2019 at 10:44 PM

quote:
wha happen?


People not complying with congressional subpoenas while Trump continues to obstruct justice by instructing them to not show up


BrerRabbit - 5/21/2019 at 10:48 PM

Yeah saw some of that . They keep revving the engine without a load on it, gonna rattle to pieces.


BIGV - 5/21/2019 at 11:27 PM

quote:
I guess they also didn't read about the destruction of evidence that took place


E-Mails?


crazyjoe - 5/22/2019 at 04:37 AM

Look, I am not smart enough to know if Trumpty Dumpty will or should be impeached, I can tell You Trumpty and vittually every person in his entire circle and administration have exactly the same lilly white and very Nazi look about them, I suppose that is a good part of his appeal to his supporters? You all knows that these **** lickin low lifes make me want to puke, no need to rehash it, my mom is a 74 year very devout Catholic, I was raised as such, but went Methodist 7 yrs ago to support my grandson and son in law, my mom may come up for Sainthood, she is my Spiritual advisor, I asked her if it was OK for me to Pray for Trumpty to have a huge massive fatal or debilitating heart attack, she shut me down and said no good on that. So it's God's Will that I will ask for..............Peace.........joe


BrerRabbit - 5/22/2019 at 04:56 AM

quote:
. . .exactly the same lilly white and very Nazi look about them . . .


It isn't just that, not only outward appearance, but you are on to something there. Its a darkness inside. One of these links around here oh yeah the Jared one, sh!t man that guys face scares the crap out of me. I cant believe nobody else can see it, or maybe they can and quick click or scroll away. He just looks flat out evil, sorry I got no other word for it. Yeah and a lot of the administration has that ugly old mean kremlin look.


nebish - 5/22/2019 at 01:01 PM

The Democrats aren't doing anything different than if the Republicans were in charge and the opposition party was in the white house embroiled in scandal and controversy. Democrats in Congress have every right for their investigative and oversight duties and I think the Trump administration is wrong to resist. I do think in some cases the administration has a right to executive privilege, I'm more along the lines of they should not be resisting. And on the other hand, I think the AG has a right and responsibility to investigate the origins of the FBI's focus on Trump and the campaign. The things being discussed are pretty out of the norm, but how the people in charge are acting seems pretty normal, I mean for politics and Washington and all.

Like crazyjoe, I really am not smart enough either to know if Trump should be impeached. I do not know if he obstructed justice, it does appear like he tried and is even doing so right now, but it is a legal determination that I do not have the education, experience or knowledge of all the variables and evidence, both incriminating and exonerating. That is what trials and legal proceedings are for. So if the people in charge want to go down that road, let them. And let those accused and charged defend themselves.


goldtop - 5/22/2019 at 09:30 PM

Tick Tock....


Jerry - 5/22/2019 at 09:41 PM

If there is evidence shown on the report for future action (possibly the redaction that says Grand Jury), that part does not need to be shown to anyone.

Be funny if there was something about investigations on the committee members under the black ink.


BrerRabbit - 5/23/2019 at 12:59 AM

Impeachments pretty dumb idea. It will fail, they got nothing.


gina - 5/24/2019 at 11:07 PM

Impeachment not happening. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has said they are not looking at that as an option.

The only obstruction that has occurred is he is obstructing the new world order, but that is not an impeachable offense. A psychic has said he will be re-elected in 2020, but will not serve his full term, he will be out of office in 2022, and he did not know how or why at this point.


BrerRabbit - 5/25/2019 at 10:17 PM

quote:
The only obstruction that has occurred is he is obstructing the new world order . . .


Name one ittybitty thing he has done to obstruct the New World Order. Looks like business as usual to me. You really think a pissant govt bureaucrat at the level of president has any sway over the New World Order? There are "powers and principalities" far above him, and far more powerful. That's like saying the toilet scrubber at the Pentagon could influence global military command.


goldtop - 5/29/2019 at 03:09 PM

Mueller is speaking and he's made it clear that he is not exonerating the prez

Tick Tock.....

He's made it clear that the DOJ policy got in the way of making an indictment and that the Constitution has the correct procedure to deal with crimes the prez commits

Tick Tock...


goldtop - 6/11/2019 at 04:40 PM

Seems the DOJ is giving up more of the underlying documents...tick tock


BrerRabbit - 6/11/2019 at 06:19 PM

Great clock! Kind of a Zen experience watching that.


goldtop - 7/27/2019 at 04:19 PM

Tick Tock


goldtop - 8/9/2019 at 02:09 PM

Jerry Nadler announced that the US is in formal impeachment proceedings against tRump and a decision on bringing charges will come by the end of the year...


Skydog32103 - 8/9/2019 at 03:23 PM

quote:
Jerry Nadler announced that the US is in formal impeachment proceedings against tRump and a decision on bringing charges will come by the end of the year...


Won’t this be appealed and overturned by the Senate, like the Clinton impeachment?


Bhawk - 8/9/2019 at 04:21 PM

quote:
quote:
Jerry Nadler announced that the US is in formal impeachment proceedings against tRump and a decision on bringing charges will come by the end of the year...


Won’t this be appealed and overturned by the Senate, like the Clinton impeachment?


Need 67 votes in the Senate to convict. One vote short of a 2/3 majority and the accused is acquitted of all charges.

67 votes in the current Senate (53 Republicans, 45 Democrats, 2 Independents)...yeah, no. It'd have be something so egregious and open and shut regardless of political party...yeah, no.


Skydog32103 - 9/21/2019 at 03:52 AM

quote:
It'd have be something so egregious and open and shut regardless of political party...yeah, no.


Per Fox News:

quote:
The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that, in a July phone call, Trump repeatedly asked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to work with Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani on a probe into Hunter Biden. The call came a month before Trump put a hold on $250 million in military aid to Ukraine -- a hold that was eventually released after objections from the Senate.



Chain - 9/22/2019 at 01:02 PM

quote:
quote:
It'd have be something so egregious and open and shut regardless of political party...yeah, no.


Per Fox News:

quote:
The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that, in a July phone call, Trump repeatedly asked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to work with Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani on a probe into Hunter Biden. The call came a month before Trump put a hold on $250 million in military aid to Ukraine -- a hold that was eventually released after objections from the Senate.





I'm a bit baffled by the apparent fear the Trumpster has of Joe Biden. It seems to me the entire appeal of Trump in 2016 was that he wasn't a career insider politician from Washington. That is to say the exact opposite of Joe Biden.

So how hard is it for Trump to capitalize on that theme now and moving forward given Biden proves daily what a long time Washington insider he really is? Instead Trump appears to be engaging in, ironically, the very type of dirt digging politicians always seem to utilize against their potential political rivals.

But then again, Trump certainly has engaged in such "hit job" tactics before....For instance in the case of Obama's birth certificate and the Central Park Five murder several years back...


Bhawk - 9/22/2019 at 05:44 PM

quote:
quote:
It'd have be something so egregious and open and shut regardless of political party...yeah, no.


Per Fox News:

quote:
The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that, in a July phone call, Trump repeatedly asked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to work with Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani on a probe into Hunter Biden. The call came a month before Trump put a hold on $250 million in military aid to Ukraine -- a hold that was eventually released after objections from the Senate.





This isn’t nearly egregious enough. Need more cut and dried. This one has details too complicated for the uncaring public and campaign shenanigans with foreign governments is accepted process now.


goldtop - 9/24/2019 at 03:06 AM



Tick Tock Donny


Stephen - 9/24/2019 at 03:42 AM

The election is only 14 mos away, I say let the people impeach Trump at the voting polls next Nov, if the majority feels that way
it would take the politicians longer than that just to organize impeachment efforts - the campaign mudslinging will include most of that

[Edited on 9/24/2019 by Stephen]


Skydog32103 - 9/24/2019 at 03:19 PM

Why bother with impeachment if the Senate won’t convict?


BIGV - 9/24/2019 at 03:47 PM

quote:
Why bother with impeachment if the Senate won’t convict?


I find it absolutely hilarious that the Democrats main focus is on impeachment and not concentrating on one Candidate who can win in November 2020.

Maybe Beto can knock on every door in his home sate and attempt to take guns away from Law abiding citizens.

Or Andrew Yang can get started writing checks for $1,000.

Joe Biden could could start reminding himself to go to his Memory Class.

So much work ahead and so little time.


MartinD28 - 9/24/2019 at 05:43 PM

Soliciting interference from foreign governments in our elections is a good thing and representative of what our founding fathers belived in. They would back Trump to the end just like those in Congress and on this site who see no problem in this and divert. There are far bigger problems than Putin's previous actions and Trump's threatening to withold foreign aid until dirt is dug up on a political opponent. All in a day's work in the new accepted norm of corruption.

[Edited on 9/24/2019 by MartinD28]


Skydog32103 - 9/24/2019 at 06:32 PM

quote:
I find it absolutely hilarious that the Democrats main focus is on impeachment and not concentrating on one Candidate who can win in November 2020.

Maybe Beto can knock on every door in his home sate and attempt to take guns away from Law abiding citizens.

Or Andrew Yang can get started writing checks for $1,000.

Joe Biden could could start reminding himself to go to his Memory Class.


Maybe you will one day find something new to post about instead of bigotry towards a entire party because they have different opinions than you do.


Stephen - 9/24/2019 at 06:35 PM

Then if it’s that bad, the people will speak next November at the voting booths

Still don’t see the sense in having impeachment proceedings during the presidential election - he might be voted out anyway rendering the whole thing moot
I say forget impeachment for now, pending outcome of election - then, if he Is re-elected, it will prove what BigV said, that they should’ve focused on a viable candidate instead of impeachment, & that the majority was never behind the effort

[Edited on 9/24/2019 by Stephen]


BIGV - 9/24/2019 at 07:12 PM

quote:
quote:
I find it absolutely hilarious that the Democrats main focus is on impeachment and not concentrating on one Candidate who can win in November 2020.

Maybe Beto can knock on every door in his home sate and attempt to take guns away from Law abiding citizens.

Or Andrew Yang can get started writing checks for $1,000.

Joe Biden could could start reminding himself to go to his Memory Class.


Maybe you will one day find something new to post about instead of bigotry towards a entire party because they have different opinions than you do.


What's good for the Goose....

Maybe someday you in turn will not be bothered by the things I post that are directed towards the leadership of Political Party and not at individuals on this board.


Bhawk - 9/24/2019 at 08:52 PM

If he's impeached and then no conviction, God help us all.


Bhawk - 9/24/2019 at 08:58 PM

quote:
Soliciting interference from foreign governments in our elections is a good thing and representative of what our founding fathers belived in. They would back Trump to the end just like those in Congress and on this site who see no problem in this and divert. There are far bigger problems than Putin's previous actions and Trump's threatening to withold foreign aid until dirt is dug up on a political opponent. All in a day's work in the new accepted norm of corruption.


This. Trump could go over to Walter Reed right now and take a dump on a vet in a hospital bed and wipe with the flag and the Right wouldn't care.


goldtop - 9/24/2019 at 09:08 PM



We see Donny just got the ball pulled out from under him...Miss Nancy will doing the kicking

BIGV...let me give you some perspective on how they would remove your weapon. First there would be a buy back program and if you don't sell your weapon back they will simply issue an arrest warrant for you. They won't storm your house. They'll wait for you to run a red light, speed or have some other incident where the police will come in contact with you. They will see there's an arrest warrant for you and then they will arrest you. So while you're sitting in jail they will go to your house and remove the weapon. I guess you didn't think that through, did ya...like most other stuff you comment about...



Let the games begin


Skydog32103 - 9/24/2019 at 09:34 PM

quote:
Maybe someday you in turn will not be bothered by the things I post that are directed towards the leadership of Political Party and not at individuals on this board.


You direct your comments towards liberals time and time again, which includes individuals on this board. How does that make you better than Hillary’s deplorable comment? That type of ignorance does indeed bother me, especially on this particular website. If it’s the leaders that are your target, then you should say so. Words matter.



[Edited on 9/24/2019 by Skydog32103]


Skydog32103 - 9/24/2019 at 09:39 PM

quote:
If he's impeached and then no conviction, God help us all.


You mean, “when” he’s impeached and then no conviction.....and yes, god help us all for sure. If we think it’s bad now, wait until he’s acquitted. I’ve always believed he will serve 8 years. We should let it happen. The Republican Party will be a joke to everyone, practically making themselves extinct. After he’s gone, the U.S. will be Democrat for the next several decades, if not more.


tcatanesi - 9/24/2019 at 09:40 PM

quote:
I find it absolutely hilarious that the Democrats main focus is on impeachment and not concentrating on one Candidate who can win in November 2020.

Maybe Beto can knock on every door in his home sate and attempt to take guns away from Law abiding citizens.

Or Andrew Yang can get started writing checks for $1,000.

Joe Biden could could start reminding himself to go to his Memory Class.

So much work ahead and so little time.


Angry white male, much?


2112 - 9/24/2019 at 10:08 PM

quote:
quote:
If he's impeached and then no conviction, God help us all.


You mean, “when” he’s impeached and then no conviction.....and yes, god help us all for sure. If we think it’s bad now, wait until he’s acquitted. I’ve always believed he will serve 8 years. We should let it happen. The Republican Party will be a joke to everyone, practically making themselves extinct. After he’s gone, the U.S. will be Democrat for the next several decades, if not more.


I agree that the House will impeach and there will be no conviction. So, why bother? Well, Trump has obviously been doing what he wants not caring about any laws he happens to break in the process, and the Democrats haven't had the balls to do anything about it. So, we all know that the Senate is not going to remove him, so the Democrats better have a good case for impeachment that will win over independents in a handful of states. If there is overwhelming evidence of wrongdoing and a senator in a purple state lets him get away with it, then it may flip the Senate. On the other hand, if the case for wrongdoing is weak, then the opposite may happen. Keep in mind, almost 40% of the country will love Trump no matter what and will find any excuse to support him regardless of what he does. Most Democrats will think it is about time that Trump gets called out for his criminal ways. The only opinions that matter are the swing voters in purple states. We already know the impeachment is not going to result in Trump's removal from office...at least not directly. But this whole process is a high stakes game of poker with the prize being the outcome of the next election. It seems of late the Republicans play the game of politics better than the Democrats, and I think Pelosi know this. If she is finally ready to move forward with an impeachment inquiry, then she must think there is a very damning case against Trump that will play well with the American swing voters.


MartinD28 - 9/24/2019 at 10:26 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
If he's impeached and then no conviction, God help us all.


You mean, “when” he’s impeached and then no conviction.....and yes, god help us all for sure. If we think it’s bad now, wait until he’s acquitted. I’ve always believed he will serve 8 years. We should let it happen. The Republican Party will be a joke to everyone, practically making themselves extinct. After he’s gone, the U.S. will be Democrat for the next several decades, if not more.


I agree that the House will impeach and there will be no conviction. So, why bother? Well, Trump has obviously been doing what he wants not caring about any laws he happens to break in the process, and the Democrats haven't had the balls to do anything about it. So, we all know that the Senate is not going to remove him, so the Democrats better have a good case for impeachment that will win over independents in a handful of states. If there is overwhelming evidence of wrongdoing and a senator in a purple state lets him get away with it, then it may flip the Senate. On the other hand, if the case for wrongdoing is weak, then the opposite may happen. Keep in mind, almost 40% of the country will love Trump no matter what and will find any excuse to support him regardless of what he does. Most Democrats will think it is about time that Trump gets called out for his criminal ways. The only opinions that matter are the swing voters in purple states. We already know the impeachment is not going to result in Trump's removal from office...at least not directly. But this whole process is a high stakes game of poker with the prize being the outcome of the next election. It seems of late the Republicans play the game of politics better than the Democrats, and I think Pelosi know this. If she is finally ready to move forward with an impeachment inquiry, then she must think there is a very damning case against Trump that will play well with the American swing voters.


I'd be shocked if Trump is convicted...facts be damned. Keep in mind that the GOP will lay down in the road for Trump. For example - former "Never Trumper" Lindsey Graham now turned to lead Trump lead ball licker are along for the Trump ride regardless of what he does or says. Nothing imaginable is not acceptable in the new world of the GOP. Corruption and emoluments violations are alive and well.

On the other hand, Congress has a job to do, and regardless of outcome owes it to the American people to do their job.


dutchoneill - 9/24/2019 at 11:04 PM

This is gonna be fun to watch. I wonder if Trump was even the target of the 'whistleblower'

Demi probably want Biden gone for good.

As far as the transcript, why release now?

First domino to fall will be Biden then the FISA abuse indictments come out.

October surprise this year!


OriginalGoober - 9/25/2019 at 12:05 AM

Guys, I had to pull the reins back on your Russia zeal, looks like you are all hoping that this will replace all that emotional energy when it all amounted to fake news, false reporting, complicit democrats, and a willing media.


BrerRabbit - 9/25/2019 at 01:16 AM


Bhawk - 9/25/2019 at 02:31 AM

From what’s out there so far, this isn’t enough. It’s too complicated and obtuse. The Kyiv Times in Ukraine has some great writing on the whole thing from that part of the world. Lots of details and foreign names. Waaaay too many parts to hold the American attention span.

Donald Trump is still a horrible human being, though.


BIGV - 9/25/2019 at 02:39 AM

quote:
quote:
I find it absolutely hilarious that the Democrats main focus is on impeachment and not concentrating on one Candidate who can win in November 2020.

Maybe Beto can knock on every door in his home sate and attempt to take guns away from Law abiding citizens.

Or Andrew Yang can get started writing checks for $1,000.

Joe Biden could could start reminding himself to go to his Memory Class.

So much work ahead and so little time.


Angry white male, much?


Anger? Typical. Disagree and here comes the label.


BIGV - 9/25/2019 at 02:46 AM

quote:
BIGV...let me give you some perspective on how they would remove your weapon. First there would be a buy back program and if you don't sell your weapon back they will simply issue an arrest warrant for you.


Since you brought up the phrase "Not thinking it through"...lol..ALL of your mentioned "cures" apply to registered weapons, probably referring to "Legal" purchases

How does this affect the criminal element? You know!...The peeps who don't follow the LAW? As in Criminals. So with this "Genius plan" ...lol... How do we get the weapons out of the hands of the bad guys?

quote:
I guess you didn't think that through, did ya....


Bhawk - 9/25/2019 at 02:59 AM

Although, Trump’s attorney isn’t helping...

Rudy Giuliani, a half hour ago: "I never talked to a Ukrainian official until the State Department called me and asked me to do it"

Good grief.


Stephen - 9/25/2019 at 03:31 AM

quote:

Donald Trump is still a horrible human being, though.


Many friendly reasonable people feel that way
Makes one wonder how he got elected in the 1st place

Again, if he’s that much of a lowlife he’ll be voted out in a landslide next fall

2112 posted that “we all know impeachment won’t result in Trump’s removal from office”
That’s what I thought it was - when you were impeached, you were removed from office
This stuff isn’t my bag, & I’m sure it shows

Now it’s time to go get imPeached - ABB STYLE- on the stereo


Skydog32103 - 9/25/2019 at 03:32 PM

quote:
How do we get the weapons out of the hands of the bad guys?


The current system allows for all disturbed liberal entitled millenials, who have never had a job, who blame mommy, daddy, and Trump for all of their problems, as well as any other crazy disturbed individual, to buy multiple AR-15s and unlimited ammunition....simply because they don't have a criminal record. You mock a solution to this problem because it won't solve the black market sub-issue....maybe you have no room to be laughing at anyone.


BIGV - 9/25/2019 at 03:54 PM

quote:
quote:
How do we get the weapons out of the hands of the bad guys?


The current system allows for all disturbed liberal entitled millenials, who have never had a job, who blame mommy, daddy, and Trump for all of their problems, as well as any other crazy disturbed individual, to buy multiple AR-15s and unlimited ammunition....simply because they don't have a criminal record. You mock a solution to this problem because it won't solve the black market sub-issue....maybe you have no room to be laughing at anyone.


This has been my point all along; sane, Law abiding individuals are not the ones committing these heinous acts. It is a difficult issue with no easy solution; taking guns away from people who do not abuse the Law is not the way to go. Come up with a means to keep these weapons out of the hands of the mentally disturbed and we'll be in agreement.


dutchoneill - 9/25/2019 at 05:23 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
How do we get the weapons out of the hands of the bad guys?


The current system allows for all disturbed liberal entitled millenials, who have never had a job, who blame mommy, daddy, and Trump for all of their problems, as well as any other crazy disturbed individual, to buy multiple AR-15s and unlimited ammunition....simply because they don't have a criminal record. You mock a solution to this problem because it won't solve the black market sub-issue....maybe you have no room to be laughing at anyone.


This has been my point all along; sane, Law abiding individuals are not the ones committing these heinous acts. It is a difficult issue with no easy solution; taking guns away from people who do not abuse the Law is not the way to go. Come up with a means to keep these weapons out of the hands of the mentally disturbed and we'll be in agreement.



I don't see any legislation being drafted that the WH might accept especially with phase two of the Coup underway. Americans wanted common sense legislation, its dead now. Along with any help on prescription drug prices. Such is the state of politics in our country now.


Skydog32103 - 9/25/2019 at 05:31 PM

quote:
This has been my point all along; sane, Law abiding individuals are not the ones committing these heinous acts. It is a difficult issue with no easy solution; taking guns away from people who do not abuse the Law is not the way to go. Come up with a means to keep these weapons out of the hands of the mentally disturbed and we'll be in agreement.


Your previous points above were that it won't address the black market sub-issue. As for keeping military weapons out of the hands of the mentally disturbed, why WOULDN'T a ban on such weapons be a means to this? The mentally disturbed buy AR-15s legally all the time, as it is now. This is crazy.

If you are arguing that law-abiding civilians should be able to buy military weapons, then we can stop now, because I'll never agree to that. Military weapons should only be available to the military...period.


Stephen - 9/25/2019 at 06:18 PM

No gun control legislation could ever be fully effective, much less common sense IMO - we’ve seen that through all the mass murders, from Columbine to Las Vegas & beyond - calls rise anew for gun control measures to be passed after each crime, w/the same result - nothing can be done


BrerRabbit - 9/25/2019 at 06:25 PM

quote:
. . . especially with phase two of the Coup underway . . .


Hahaha! "The Coup". Whatever it takes to make your day a bit more dramatic and exciting I guess. 007 theme here

[Edited on 9/25/2019 by BrerRabbit]


LUKE - 9/25/2019 at 08:59 PM

Whoop's wrong website.I was trying to order TRUMP 2020 bumper sticker's.


BrerRabbit - 9/25/2019 at 10:34 PM


MartinD28 - 9/25/2019 at 11:55 PM

quote:



Notice the positioning - Putin is always on top of Trump.


gina - 9/26/2019 at 12:26 AM

The phone call.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/09/25/trump-releases-tran script-call-ukraine-president/2438300001/

So what is wrong with this?


MartinD28 - 9/26/2019 at 12:30 AM

quote:
The phone call.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/09/25/trump-releases-tran script-call-ukraine-president/2438300001/

So what is wrong with this?


Nothing at all. Kind of like calling a friend and asking to go to a concert. Very casual conversation?

Really Gina, if intent stared you in the eyes, would you know it?


BrerRabbit - 9/26/2019 at 12:44 AM

quote:
So what is wrong with this?


What is wrong is buddying up with foreign powers and confiding about ripping on fellow Americans. We can fight amongst ourselves all we want but we show a united front to the world. This is treason. Show us one other president of any political stripe who has ever undermined the US like this, casting aspersions on their countrymen in foreign negotiations. This guy is bad news, wake tf up folks, let's pick another Republican asap.



[Edited on 9/26/2019 by BrerRabbit]


Chain - 9/26/2019 at 09:52 PM

quote:
quote:
So what is wrong with this?


What is wrong is buddying up with foreign powers and confiding about ripping on fellow Americans. We can fight amongst ourselves all we want but we show a united front to the world. This is treason. Show us one other president of any political stripe who has ever undermined the US like this, casting aspersions on their countrymen in foreign negotiations. This guy is bad news, wake tf up folks, let's pick another Republican asap.



Indeed....This particular telephone call shake down may be only the tip of the iceberg if the whistle blower is correct in his/her assertion that other telephone calls with other foreign heads of state have also been removed from official White House storage and squirreled away from the official logs.

I wouldn't put it past Trump to shake down any foreign leader for any favor whatsoever. The con man/crook has proven time and time again he's using his position as President to enrich himself so any favor toward that end and not even necessarily about attempting to smear a potential rival is also highly possible.






MartinD28 - 9/26/2019 at 10:49 PM

So sad to post this, but over at State Run TV the right wing fellas are having cat fights over impeachment. Can't they just all get along and find common ground...like talking about relevant Hillary or reprising Obama's birth certificate.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shep-judge-nap-tucker-fox-202522475.html


goldtop - 9/26/2019 at 11:32 PM

Honestly who did not see this coming...??? He's an azzhat and a bunch of azzhats voted him in without once noticing he's was an azzhat??? sad commentary on our country and those who would vote for an azzhat. Like there wasn't anyone better on the right??? please...this a GTFU moment and start acting like adults during elections

Phuck did he need a dressed up monkey and wagon to let you know he's a azzhat???

Was it the childish names...the mocking of the disabled...The P***Y grabbing...he has so many redeeming qualities that we should love to represent us on the World stage??? right??? phucking boobs...

Who really didn't see this coming???


PhotoRon286 - 9/27/2019 at 12:45 AM

quote:
Honestly who did not see this coming...??? He's an azzhat and a bunch of azzhats voted him in without once noticing he's was an azzhat??? sad commentary on our country and those who would vote for an azzhat. Like there wasn't anyone better on the right??? please...this a GTFU moment and start acting like adults during elections

Phuck did he need a dressed up monkey and wagon to let you know he's a azzhat???

Was it the childish names...the mocking of the disabled...The P***Y grabbing...he has so many redeeming qualities that we should love to represent us on the World stage??? right??? phucking boobs...

Who really didn't see this coming???




BigV will have an issue with your post.


goldtop - 9/27/2019 at 01:49 AM

quote:
quote:
Honestly who did not see this coming...??? He's an azzhat and a bunch of azzhats voted him in without once noticing he's was an azzhat??? sad commentary on our country and those who would vote for an azzhat. Like there wasn't anyone better on the right??? please...this a GTFU moment and start acting like adults during elections

Phuck did he need a dressed up monkey and wagon to let you know he's a azzhat???

Was it the childish names...the mocking of the disabled...The P***Y grabbing...he has so many redeeming qualities that we should love to represent us on the World stage??? right??? phucking boobs...

Who really didn't see this coming???




BigV will have an issue with your post.


Like I give rats azz what Mr B3 licks BIGV thinks about anything...I don't care what peoples fake azz justifications are....The tinfoil hat troubadours


2112 - 9/27/2019 at 02:14 AM

quote:
quote:
Honestly who did not see this coming...??? He's an azzhat and a bunch of azzhats voted him in without once noticing he's was an azzhat??? sad commentary on our country and those who would vote for an azzhat. Like there wasn't anyone better on the right??? please...this a GTFU moment and start acting like adults during elections

Phuck did he need a dressed up monkey and wagon to let you know he's a azzhat???

Was it the childish names...the mocking of the disabled...The P***Y grabbing...he has so many redeeming qualities that we should love to represent us on the World stage??? right??? phucking boobs...

Who really didn't see this coming???




BigV will have an issue with your post.


Not so sure. Didn't BigV say he didn't vote for Trump? So this wouldn't apply to him. He seems to love the guy, but didn't vote for him.

But Goober on the other hand. I think he is all in when it comes to Trump worship.


BIGV - 9/27/2019 at 02:27 AM

quote:
Not so sure. Didn't BigV say he didn't vote for Trump? So this wouldn't apply to him. He seems to love the guy, but didn't vote for him.


That would be correct, I simply can not recall how many times I have stated this. Seems my "Failure" to condemn him and his actions translates into unabashed support....Truth be told (for the umpteenth time) I am just happy as Hell Hillary lost.

This whole thread sends me to bed every night hoping he keeps the Democrats out of the WH a second time. The Dems lost and still can not face that fact.


pops42 - 9/27/2019 at 03:53 AM

quote:
quote:
Not so sure. Didn't BigV say he didn't vote for Trump? So this wouldn't apply to him. He seems to love the guy, but didn't vote for him.


That would be correct, I simply can not recall how many times I have stated this. Seems my "Failure" to condemn him and his actions translates into unabashed support....Truth be told (for the umpteenth time) I am just happy as Hell Hillary lost.

This whole thread sends me to bed every night hoping he keeps the Democrats out of the WH a second time. The Dems lost and still can not face that fact.


So you support a lying, criminal, scumbag, whiner?.


BIGV - 9/27/2019 at 04:26 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Not so sure. Didn't BigV say he didn't vote for Trump? So this wouldn't apply to him. He seems to love the guy, but didn't vote for him.


That would be correct, I simply can not recall how many times I have stated this. Seems my "Failure" to condemn him and his actions translates into unabashed support....Truth be told (for the umpteenth time) I am just happy as Hell Hillary lost.

This whole thread sends me to bed every night hoping he keeps the Democrats out of the WH a second time. The Dems lost and still can not face that fact.


So you support a lying, criminal, scumbag, whiner?.


If it keeps the Democrats out of the White House?

YES


pops42 - 9/27/2019 at 06:12 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Not so sure. Didn't BigV say he didn't vote for Trump? So this wouldn't apply to him. He seems to love the guy, but didn't vote for him.


That would be correct, I simply can not recall how many times I have stated this. Seems my "Failure" to condemn him and his actions translates into unabashed support....Truth be told (for the umpteenth time) I am just happy as Hell Hillary lost.

This whole thread sends me to bed every night hoping he keeps the Democrats out of the WH a second time. The Dems lost and still can not face that fact.


So you support a lying, criminal, scumbag, whiner?.


If it keeps the Democrats out of the White House?

YES
trump will be the very thing that puts Democrats back in power. How do you like them apples, big vee?

[Edited on 9/27/2019 by pops42]


Stephen - 9/27/2019 at 01:08 PM

Am not so sure about that pops42, going back to Dutch’s (Ronald Reagan’s) time, every incumbent except for Geo HW Bush, Reagan’s VP, has been re-elected, usually thru one ‘scandal’ or another

If he was all those things - lying criminal scumbag whiner - he wouldn’t be sitting in office - it’s all nothing new, every president has political enemies who want to undermine him

[Edited on 9/27/2019 by Stephen]


Bhawk - 9/27/2019 at 01:38 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Not so sure. Didn't BigV say he didn't vote for Trump? So this wouldn't apply to him. He seems to love the guy, but didn't vote for him.


That would be correct, I simply can not recall how many times I have stated this. Seems my "Failure" to condemn him and his actions translates into unabashed support....Truth be told (for the umpteenth time) I am just happy as Hell Hillary lost.

This whole thread sends me to bed every night hoping he keeps the Democrats out of the WH a second time. The Dems lost and still can not face that fact.


So you support a lying, criminal, scumbag, whiner?.


If it keeps the Democrats out of the White House?

YES


This is a good thing to keep in mind the next time you float some smug line about personal responsibility and accountability.

You'd rather have a criminal President?

So noted!


Bhawk - 9/27/2019 at 01:43 PM

quote:
The Dems lost and still can not face that fact.


Hillary lost. She'll never be President, so...

Wait. You don't care what anyone-other-than-a-Democrat does.

How do you square your obsession with the word ILLEGAL in one context, and then absolutely not care if the President of the United States is a criminal?


Skydog32103 - 9/27/2019 at 01:47 PM

quote:
If it keeps the Democrats out of the White House?

YES


I admire your honesty, but it is not normal to be this fearful of a political party. I think you just need someone to blame for whatever is eating at you.


BIGV - 9/27/2019 at 02:52 PM

quote:
I admire your honesty


Thanks

quote:
but it is not normal to be this fearful of a political party. I think you just need someone to blame for whatever is eating at you.


It is not normal to be so concerned about what others think on a musical website


BIGV - 9/27/2019 at 02:56 PM

quote:
You'd rather have a criminal President?


Accusations vs. Convictions. This is nothing more than the Democrats spending all of their resources looking for something, anything in an attempt to explain how and why they lost.

Nothing more.


2112 - 9/27/2019 at 04:09 PM

quote:
quote:
You'd rather have a criminal President?


Accusations vs. Convictions. This is nothing more than the Democrats spending all of their resources looking for something, anything in an attempt to explain how and why they lost.

Nothing more.


Yet it wasn't the Democrats using their power to solicit help from the leader of a foreign country to help win an election. Hmmm


MartinD28 - 9/27/2019 at 04:28 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
You'd rather have a criminal President?


Accusations vs. Convictions. This is nothing more than the Democrats spending all of their resources looking for something, anything in an attempt to explain how and why they lost.

Nothing more.


Yet it wasn't the Democrats using their power to solicit help from the leader of a foreign country to help win an election. Hmmm


What does that matter? 13,000 lies later all is good. An uptick in hate crimes - coincidental with Trump in office - all good. BFF with dictators and murderers and turning our country's back on our allies - all good. Trade wars, tariffs, record deficits - all good in the ways of long term GOP fiscal conservatism. Blatant racism - not a problem. Using the government to pad one's own pocket - all in a day's work. Currying favor in elections and dirt from foreign countries on the competition - very acceptable. Record turnover in key cabinet level positions and in generals surrounding the savant in the White House.

But the most important thing of all - thank goodness the dreaded Hillary is not president. If that was accomplished, absolutely nothing else matters.

2112 - expand your mindset.


Skydog32103 - 9/27/2019 at 04:28 PM

quote:
It is not normal to be so concerned about what others think on a musical website


quote:
This is nothing more than the Democrats spending all of their resources looking for something, anything in an attempt to explain how and why they lost.


Do you even know why you are so fearful and affected by Democrats? It’s not that I’m concerned about you personally. I’m concerned with people like you collectively, because for the first time in U.S. history, the people chose to lower their standards for the office of the presidency by filling the position with a mentally unfit criminal demogogue, all because you want to take the easy road of scapegoating your personal demons. Had you all used common sense, pride, and integrity in your strategies, I wouldn’t be saying this. I couldn’t say any of these things had you all chose someone with the required qualities that any leader must possess for such a role.


pops42 - 9/28/2019 at 12:12 AM

quote:
Am not so sure about that pops42, going back to Dutch’s (Ronald Reagan’s) time, every incumbent except for Geo HW Bush, Reagan’s VP, has been re-elected, usually thru one ‘scandal’ or another

If he was all those things - lying criminal scumbag whiner - he wouldn’t be sitting in office - it’s all nothing new, every president has political enemies who want to undermine him

[Edited on 9/27/2019 by Stephen]
He won't be sitting there long. I predict he will resign, and cite health problems, rather than face a crushing and humiliating defeat. You cant compare what happened in the past, to what is happening now. It is unprecedented.

[Edited on 9/28/2019 by pops42]


goldtop - 9/28/2019 at 12:51 AM

quote:
quote:
Am not so sure about that pops42, going back to Dutch’s (Ronald Reagan’s) time, every incumbent except for Geo HW Bush, Reagan’s VP, has been re-elected, usually thru one ‘scandal’ or another

If he was all those things - lying criminal scumbag whiner - he wouldn’t be sitting in office - it’s all nothing new, every president has political enemies who want to undermine him

[Edited on 9/27/2019 by Stephen]
He won't be sitting there long. I predict he will resign, and cite health problems, rather than face a crushing and humiliating defeat. You cant compare what happened in the past, to what is happening now. It is unprecedented.

[Edited on 9/28/2019 by pops42]


Those damn bone spurs


PhotoRon286 - 9/28/2019 at 01:50 AM

quote:
quote:
You'd rather have a criminal President?


Accusations vs. Convictions. This is nothing more than the Democrats spending all of their resources looking for something, anything in an attempt to explain how and why they lost.

Nothing more.


This post isn't holding up too well now.

We'll look back at it in a month.


goldtop - 9/28/2019 at 02:23 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
You'd rather have a criminal President?


Accusations vs. Convictions. This is nothing more than the Democrats spending all of their resources looking for something, anything in an attempt to explain how and why they lost.

Nothing more.


This post isn't holding up too well now.

We'll look back at it in a month.



It's all a left wing media george soro's funded coup ....the media gets up everyday just to lie to us...I was watching the morning news and they said it was gonna rain so I know they're lying so I put on my shorts and I knew it was a god damn conspiracy when I started to get wet...I was looking for the hose that was spraying the water but the cloud were in the way and the water kept getting in my eye...The traffic guy told me there was a traffic jam on my direct route to work...so I took it...I guess they hired a bunch of people to fill the lanes...

I turned on BBC because I was told they told the truth....I had to keep checking the station because it sounded like the people on MSNBC and my morning local news cast...especially when it come to tRump

It's all one big conspiracy...they all lie

Phucking boobs....yeah and we flew planes into our own building and had them wired with bombs so we can be in an endless war....ya know, ya gotta crack a few eggs....

This is the kind of madness that people think and they want people to actually justify that stupidity

[Edited on 9/28/2019 by goldtop]


Stephen - 9/28/2019 at 02:25 AM

quote:
quote:
Am not so sure about that pops42, going back to Dutch’s (Ronald Reagan’s) time, every incumbent except for Geo HW Bush, Reagan’s VP, has been re-elected, usually thru one ‘scandal’ or another

If he was all those things - lying criminal scumbag whiner - he wouldn’t be sitting in office - it’s all nothing new, every president has political enemies who want to undermine him

[Edited on 9/27/2019 by Stephen]
He won't be sitting there long. I predict he will resign, and cite health problems, rather than face a crushing and humiliating defeat. You cant compare what happened in the past, to what is happening now. It is unprecedented.

[Edited on 9/28/2019 by pops42]


I disagree, under similar intense political pressure Nixon resigned in 1974 rather than face what then looked like certain impeachment/ouster - we can always be informed/learn from past history/mistakes etc

What’s your favorite cut off that Gregg Plays Jimmy Smith Favorites recording

[Edited on 9/28/2019 by Stephen]


BIGV - 9/28/2019 at 03:40 AM

quote:
Do you even know why you are so fearful and affected by Democrats? It’s not that I’m concerned about you personally. I’m concerned with people like you collectively, because for the first time in U.S. history, the people chose to lower their standards for the office of the presidency by filling the position with a mentally unfit criminal demogogue, all because you want to take the easy road of scapegoating your personal demons. Had you all used common sense, pride, and integrity in your strategies, I wouldn’t be saying this. I couldn’t say any of these things had you all chose someone with the required qualities that any leader must possess for such a role.


Too funny, disagree with you and get lectured. See, it can't be something as simple as daring to see things differently.....


BIGV - 9/28/2019 at 03:44 AM

quote:
But the most important thing of all - thank goodness the dreaded Hillary is not president


Exactly my thought


Skydog32103 - 9/28/2019 at 12:11 PM

quote:
Too funny, disagree with you and get lectured. See, it can't be something as simple as daring to see things differently.....


It’s just criticism, relax a little. Between your reaction to criticism and your boogie monster Democrats, you are one fragile little boy. Just remember, whenever you feel the need to scapegoat, I’ll be here to help you remember that your diaper is full and needs to be changed.


Skydog32103 - 9/28/2019 at 01:19 PM

If the Democrats in Washington think that a House impeachment will hurt Trump's chances at re-election, they are sorely mistaken. That being said, it's good to be on record that someone tried to reject what's going on.

I realize there are segments of America that have valid reasons to vote for Trump - those who have seen their communities be reduced to abandoned wastelands, factory workers who can't find work, opiod addicted families, people with limited resources and abilities. If these people feel a need to blow up the system, then I completely understand. But any American who grew up in a stable home and received a decent education should have much higher standards, not only for the office of the presidency, but for themselves as well.

I feel bad that some people think they deserve to follow someone like Trump, and that they don't see they can have much better. Some people go their whole lives believing that there is someone to blame for their unhappiness, that there is some fantasy standard that all people must be, and those who don't meet that standard are the bad guys. It sounds terrible.


BIGV - 9/28/2019 at 01:22 PM

quote:
quote:
Too funny, disagree with you and get lectured. See, it can't be something as simple as daring to see things differently.....


It’s just criticism, relax a little. Between your reaction to criticism and your boogie monster Democrats, you are one fragile little boy. Just remember, whenever you feel the need to scapegoat, I’ll be here to help you remember that your diaper is full and needs to be changed.


Nice well thought out retort and all because I disagree with the you.

Tell me again who the child is here.


Stephen - 9/28/2019 at 05:02 PM

Congrats Skydog32103, you’re a Peach Pro
- no need for the personal insults tho, none have been directed your way


piacere - 9/28/2019 at 05:27 PM

quote:
If the Democrats in Washington think that a House impeachment will hurt Trump's chances at re-election, they are sorely mistaken. That being said, it's good to be on record that someone tried to reject what's going on.

I realize there are segments of America that have valid reasons to vote for Trump - those who have seen their communities be reduced to abandoned wastelands, factory workers who can't find work, opiod addicted families, people with limited resources and abilities. If these people feel a need to blow up the system, then I completely understand. But any American who grew up in a stable home and received a decent education should have much higher standards, not only for the office of the presidency, but for themselves as well.

I feel bad that some people think they deserve to follow someone like Trump, and that they don't see they can have much better. Some people go their whole lives believing that there is someone to blame for their unhappiness, that there is some fantasy standard that all people must be, and those who don't meet that standard are the bad guys. It sounds terrible.


Who the f*ck are you? Shut up.


PhotoRon286 - 9/28/2019 at 09:32 PM

quote:
quote:
Too funny, disagree with you and get lectured. See, it can't be something as simple as daring to see things differently.....


It’s just criticism, relax a little. Between your reaction to criticism and your boogie monster Democrats, you are one fragile little boy. Just remember, whenever you feel the need to scapegoat, I’ll be here to help you remember that your diaper is full and needs to be changed.


^^^^

This.


Skydog32103 - 9/28/2019 at 09:42 PM

quote:
Congrats Skydog32103, you’re a Peach Pro
- no need for the personal insults tho, none have been directed your way


He routinely insults anyone liberal, but you are right - I should take the high road. My apologies.


Skydog32103 - 9/28/2019 at 09:45 PM

quote:
Who the f*ck are you? Shut up.


With a reaction like this, you clearly saw truth in my post.



[Edited on 9/28/2019 by Skydog32103]


LUKE - 9/29/2019 at 02:23 AM

DAMMIT!!!! Every time i go to pay for my 250 2020 Trump bumper sticker's,this site pop's up.Guess i gotta call Nadler to get to the bottom of what's goin on.


BrerRabbit - 9/29/2019 at 03:49 AM

Here ya go! Plaster 250 of these all over your rig!


BIGV - 9/29/2019 at 04:03 AM

quote:
I should take the high road.


I understand, it's new and scary; there's a first time for every behavior.


2112 - 9/29/2019 at 04:19 AM

quote:
Here ya go! Plaster 250 of these all over your rig!




Do you have them translated into Ukrainian?


alanwoods - 9/29/2019 at 12:49 PM

quote:


I realize there are segments of America that have valid reasons to vote for Trump - those who have seen their communities be reduced to abandoned wastelands, factory workers who can't find work, opiod addicted families, people with limited resources and abilities. If these people feel a need to blow up the system, then I completely understand. But any American who grew up in a stable home and received a decent education should have much higher standards, not only for the office of the presidency, but for themselves as well.



I suppose you feel that sweeping changes in the conditions you reference were made during the previous administration? Especially for those factory workers...???

You're delusional.

I'll wait for the sanctimonious, insulting reply.


Stephen - 9/29/2019 at 01:17 PM

He’s already acknowledged & apologized for all this, no sense in dragging it out all over again
I say let the thread rest until after impeachment, if it gets that far - the thread was started Jan 2017, it can stand to vanish off the pages again for awhile - best wishes, happy Sunday to all

[Edited on 9/29/2019 by Stephen]


Skydog32103 - 9/29/2019 at 01:49 PM

quote:
I understand, it's new and scary; there's a first time for every behavior.


It’s the comeback kid everyone! Lol.


Skydog32103 - 9/29/2019 at 05:06 PM

quote:
Comedy has traditionally picked on people in power, people who abuse their power. Women and gays and immigrants, to my way of thinking, are underdogs. I think his core audience is young white males who are threatened by these groups. I think a lot of these guys aren’t sure of their manhood, I think that’s often a problem when you’re going through adolescence... and the women who assert themselves and that are competent are a threat to these men, and so are immigrants in terms of jobs. I think that’s what is at the core of that experience that takes place in those arenas. A sharing of anger and rage at these targets.


quote:
Who the f*ck are you?


That quote is from George Carlin, 1990. It's Trump in a nutshell. Wake up and demand better for yourself...you deserve it.





[Edited on 9/29/2019 by Skydog32103]


Skydog32103 - 9/29/2019 at 05:16 PM

quote:
I suppose you feel that sweeping changes in the conditions you reference were made during the previous administration? Especially for those factory workers...???

You're delusional.

I'll wait for the sanctimonious, insulting reply.


You can wait, but you're not going to get one. I've never seen you come on here and scapegoat a bunch of decent people. The truth is that no administration in our history has helped these groups that I described, and it sounds like you and I both know that Trump isn't going to help the situation either. The most likely scenario is that these groups are neglected because of the sad reality of an evolving technological workplace and a survival of the fittest world. No government will lift them - people have to lift themselves and evolve with the times, or get left behind. I find it sad that Trump preyed on these folks. If he does one thing in his 8 years, I hope he helps these people. I'll congratulate him if he does.



[Edited on 9/29/2019 by Skydog32103]


alanwoods - 9/30/2019 at 12:22 PM

quote:
quote:
I suppose you feel that sweeping changes in the conditions you reference were made during the previous administration? Especially for those factory workers...???

You're delusional.

I'll wait for the sanctimonious, insulting reply.


You can wait, but you're not going to get one. I've never seen you come on here and scapegoat a bunch of decent people. The truth is that no administration in our history has helped these groups that I described, and it sounds like you and I both know that Trump isn't going to help the situation either. The most likely scenario is that these groups are neglected because of the sad reality of an evolving technological workplace and a survival of the fittest world. No government will lift them - people have to lift themselves and evolve with the times, or get left behind. I find it sad that Trump preyed on these folks. If he does one thing in his 8 years, I hope he helps these people. I'll congratulate him if he does.



[Edited on 9/29/2019 by Skydog32103]


My apologies. I guess you are specific in who you respond to in a harsh manner.

I have my own opinions about manufacturing and who failed who. I do think that although technology is largely responsible for the erosion of factory jobs, the biggest reason that there are so many unskilled and skilled workers sitting idle is that the jobs went elsewhere. Take for instance, the textile industry. And why aren't those millions of cell phones being assembled in the USA? I have my own opinions and theories regarding that, too.

No, I don't think Trump is going to help those people, but the parties, organizations, and individuals that they routinely look to have failed them miserably.


Skydog32103 - 9/30/2019 at 02:33 PM

quote:
My apologies. I guess you are specific in who you respond to in a harsh manner.


No apology needed, but thanks. I make my own reputation here. And yes, you are correct in your assessment.

quote:
I have my own opinions about manufacturing and who failed who. I do think that although technology is largely responsible for the erosion of factory jobs, the biggest reason that there are so many unskilled and skilled workers sitting idle is that the jobs went elsewhere. Take for instance, the textile industry. And why aren't those millions of cell phones being assembled in the USA? I have my own opinions and theories regarding that, too.

No, I don't think Trump is going to help those people, but the parties, organizations, and individuals that they routinely look to have failed them miserably.


Agree 100% with all of this. Thriving factory towns used to provide middle class laborers with nice homes, cars, disposable income, and a strong quality of life with pride. Then just as you said, they all closed up and went elsewhere by the 70s or so. I guess the question remains is...why can’t the U.S. produce affordable domestic labor? We know it isn’t a party issue, although I’m sure it does factor into it somewhat.

What’s your theory?

For me, a big part of it is that Americans tend to have higher demands for their pay and working environment. These demands are justified in my opinion, but they become costly, so owners look elsewhere. On one hand, these workers deserve the better pay and conditions, but on the other, an owner should be able to maximize profits for himself too. As long as we have developing countries offering cheap production and labor, what can be done to prevent owners from going there?

Does the U.S. even have a workforce that is available and ready at a comparable pay-scale and environment as the developing countries? I know we have the workers, but will they accept that type of pay and quality of life?






[Edited on 9/30/2019 by Skydog32103]


goldtop - 9/30/2019 at 02:59 PM

I'll ask again without the diatribe

Did anyone not see this coming?


BrerRabbit - 9/30/2019 at 04:11 PM

quote:
Does the U.S. even have a workforce that is available and ready at a comparable pay-scale and environment as the developing countries?


Not since the Emancipation Proclamation.


Chain - 9/30/2019 at 09:17 PM

quote:
quote:
My apologies. I guess you are specific in who you respond to in a harsh manner.


No apology needed, but thanks. I make my own reputation here. And yes, you are correct in your assessment.

quote:
I have my own opinions about manufacturing and who failed who. I do think that although technology is largely responsible for the erosion of factory jobs, the biggest reason that there are so many unskilled and skilled workers sitting idle is that the jobs went elsewhere. Take for instance, the textile industry. And why aren't those millions of cell phones being assembled in the USA? I have my own opinions and theories regarding that, too.

No, I don't think Trump is going to help those people, but the parties, organizations, and individuals that they routinely look to have failed them miserably.


Agree 100% with all of this. Thriving factory towns used to provide middle class laborers with nice homes, cars, disposable income, and a strong quality of life with pride. Then just as you said, they all closed up and went elsewhere by the 70s or so. I guess the question remains is...why can’t the U.S. produce affordable domestic labor? We know it isn’t a party issue, although I’m sure it does factor into it somewhat.

What’s your theory?

For me, a big part of it is that Americans tend to have higher demands for their pay and working environment. These demands are justified in my opinion, but they become costly, so owners look elsewhere. On one hand, these workers deserve the better pay and conditions, but on the other, an owner should be able to maximize profits for himself too. As long as we have developing countries offering cheap production and labor, what can be done to prevent owners from going there?

Does the U.S. even have a workforce that is available and ready at a comparable pay-scale and environment as the developing countries? I know we have the workers, but will they accept that type of pay and quality of life?






[Edited on 9/30/2019 by Skydog32103]


Some economists and historians have theorized that eventually Capitalism will destroy itself as it searches across the world for cheap, low cost labor and cheap manufacturing inputs. As it races and races around the globe over the course of years, eventually such low cost inputs will no longer exist and thus no one will have the purchasing power to actually buy the goods that keep the entire system running.

It's sort of akin to "racing to the bottom" as the never ending effort to maximize profits causes the entire system to eventually implode. These same economists, historians, social scientist, etc. suggest this is why the world maybe will eventually have to move toward perhaps a basic standard income.

Others suggest we should simply pay people a living wage and thus maintain their purchasing power to continue the cycle. Paying that living wage may consist of pay from your employer along with a basic gov't subsidy. Or some combination of the two along with a shorter work week to create more actual jobs, ect. etc.....

Smart companies understand the race to the bottom and now see the long game and are finding ways to address income inequality, living wages, etc.....



[Edited on 9/30/2019 by Chain]


BIGV - 10/1/2019 at 12:14 AM

quote:
Some economists and historians have theorized that eventually Capitalism will destroy itself as it searches across the world for cheap, low cost labor and cheap manufacturing inputs.


Maybe so, but I will still choose it 100% of the time over any form of Government that declares Socialism as the answer.


Skydog32103 - 10/1/2019 at 12:38 AM

So much for the intelligent dialogue that was developing.



PhotoRon286 - 10/1/2019 at 01:02 AM

quote:
So much for the intelligent dialogue that was developing.





I agree.

Socialism is nothing more than the government doing it's best for the PEOPLE, not the corporations.

I look forward to those evil "socialist" snowplows clearing my road this coming winter.


goldtop - 10/1/2019 at 02:34 AM

quote:
quote:
So much for the intelligent dialogue that was developing.





I agree.

Socialism is nothing more than the government doing it's best for the PEOPLE, not the corporations.

I look forward to those evil "socialist" snowplows clearing my road this coming winter.


Or the police, fire department, Army, USMC, Navy, Air Force, National Guard, Coast Guard, county sheriff, state police, FBI, CIA, social security, medicare, the library, stop lights, infrastructure public school k-12

For most it's a word that they over use to show that they're just selfish

All the European countries that they think are socialist are democracies where the people have agreed they'd rather pay taxes to cover basic human services. schools through college(because they care if their children are educated) Medical care(Because they believe healthcare is a right) Paternity services(because having the mother with child at the beginning is important)

Their governments don't control the markets for products...that is communism

So we instead pay an insurance company who then makes the decision if you get the medical care you require...and people think that's better??? and we put our kids in massive debt so they can get a quality education...madness, stupidity and the height of selfishness

[Edited on 10/1/2019 by goldtop]


Stephen - 10/1/2019 at 03:03 AM

Maybe applying some of the Economic tenets of socialism to the free-enterprise approach we have here, would benefit the e pluribus unum system, & would in retrospect be something our founding fathers would have been OK with

Didn’t Ronald Reagan try something new & different like that with “supply side economics” when he was elected - but am veering off topic

[Edited on 10/1/2019 by Stephen]


Skydog32103 - 10/1/2019 at 02:45 PM

quote:
Maybe applying some of the Economic tenets of socialism to the free-enterprise approach we have here, would benefit the e pluribus unum system, & would in retrospect be something our founding fathers would have been OK with

Didn’t Ronald Reagan try something new & different like that with “supply side economics” when he was elected - but am veering off topic


All logic and evidence shows that countries can benefit from some level of socialism in certain areas, like the public services mentioned above, Medicaid, etc. All of us here benefit from socialism from our government, but there seems to be a fanatical paranoia about the word.


MartinD28 - 10/1/2019 at 03:04 PM

quote:
quote:
Maybe applying some of the Economic tenets of socialism to the free-enterprise approach we have here, would benefit the e pluribus unum system, & would in retrospect be something our founding fathers would have been OK with

Didn’t Ronald Reagan try something new & different like that with “supply side economics” when he was elected - but am veering off topic


All logic and evidence shows that countries can benefit from some level of socialism in certain areas, like the public services mentioned above, Medicaid, etc. All of us here benefit from socialism from our government, but there seems to be a fanatical paranoia about the word.


X2

There is a misunderstanding of what socialism is and that there are aspects of it already in play as you have correctly identified and back referenced.

It's individuals that are uninformed or deceptive and ether take the bait or on the other hand use the term "socialism" as some sort of fear factor. Yet they are the same ones that benefit from what socialism provides.


BIGV - 10/1/2019 at 03:13 PM

quote:
All logic and evidence shows that countries can benefit from some level of socialism in certain areas, like the public services mentioned above, Medicaid, etc. All of us here benefit from socialism from our government, but there seems to be a fanatical paranoia about the word.


X2

There is a misunderstanding of what socialism is and that there are aspects of it already in play as you have correctly identified and back referenced.

It's individuals that are uninformed or deceptive and ether take the bait or on the other hand use the term "socialism" as some sort of fear factor. Yet they are the same ones that benefit from what socialism provides.


"some level of socialism"...."It's individuals that are uninformed "...."There is a misunderstanding of what socialism is"....


Too funny. Yeah, it's easy to cherry pick and say all of this, especially when the left loves to highlight countries in northern Europe that have populations the size of Nebraska. But name ONE country where a TOTALLY Socialist economy and Government is thriving. What's even funnier is the left's propensity to single out those who disagree and label them as "Not understanding"....


Skydog32103 - 10/1/2019 at 03:26 PM

quote:
But name ONE country where a TOTALLY Socialist economy and Government is thriving.


Why? What would be the point?


BIGV - 10/1/2019 at 03:45 PM

quote:
quote:
But name ONE country where a TOTALLY Socialist economy and Government is thriving.


Why? What would be the point?


You would think it would be so easy, just pointing out ONE example where the left's beloved Socialist ideals are thriving. Just one, and please make it a Country with a population larger than the state of Kansas...

If you won't, I am guessing it is because you can not.


Skydog32103 - 10/1/2019 at 04:01 PM

quote:
But name ONE country where a TOTALLY Socialist economy and Government is thriving.


quote:
You would think it would be so easy, just pointing out ONE example where the left's beloved Socialist ideals are thriving. Just one, and please make it a Country with a population larger than the state of Kansas...

If you won't, I am guessing it is because you can not.


So your “opinion” is that the left wants a TOTALLY socialist country? Or are you just being dramatic and emotional?


Bhawk - 10/1/2019 at 05:06 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
But name ONE country where a TOTALLY Socialist economy and Government is thriving.


Why? What would be the point?


You would think it would be so easy, just pointing out ONE example where the left's beloved Socialist ideals are thriving. Just one, and please make it a Country with a population larger than the state of Kansas...

If you won't, I am guessing it is because you can not.


As completely disingenuous as this inquiry is, the easiest answer to "thriving Socialism" is China. Their GDP matches ours, their Gini coefficient matches ours and your beloved President At-Least-He's-Not-Hillary just praised and congratulated them this morning.

Does that count?

Save the keystrokes on "so the left wants to be more like China" response, too. You aren't that lazy.


BrerRabbit - 10/1/2019 at 07:08 PM

China is not a "totally socialist" country. It is capitalist as hell. Countries have varying degrees of capitalism and socialism and all the other isms, but there is no such thing as any country being "totally" anything. Never has been either, the USSR was corrupt as hell and crony capitalism was normal there. The USA is not "totally" free market capitalist either.


goldtop - 10/1/2019 at 10:15 PM

quote:
China is not a "totally socialist" country. It is capitalist as hell. Countries have varying degrees of capitalism and socialism and all the other isms, but there is no such thing as any country being "totally" anything. Never has been either, the USSR was corrupt as hell and crony capitalism was normal there. The USA is not "totally" free market capitalist either.


So true and the only "major" difference between those countries and the US is healthcare and education.

Those are the 2 major things on my list that I'd like to see changed.


Chain - 10/1/2019 at 11:05 PM

quote:
quote:
Some economists and historians have theorized that eventually Capitalism will destroy itself as it searches across the world for cheap, low cost labor and cheap manufacturing inputs.


Maybe so, but I will still choose it 100% of the time over any form of Government that declares Socialism as the answer.


If only it was as simple as you, one individual among millions, making such a decision. If only here in America we practiced a pure form of capitalism (We don't) or a pure form of socialism (we don't).

Instead, as I assume you well know, both are interwoven and it's really just a question of how much of each at any given time in the history of our economy. In other words it's not black or white, but gray....

For example, it seems to me that we need a dash or two more of socialism in present day America given the unequal distribution of wealth in this nation and the rise of a relatively few corporations that more and more control more and more of the American economy....Corporations owned and controlled by relatively few people. In the years and decades ahead, perhaps less socialism and more capitalism.

[Edited on 10/1/2019 by Chain]


MartinD28 - 10/1/2019 at 11:56 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Some economists and historians have theorized that eventually Capitalism will destroy itself as it searches across the world for cheap, low cost labor and cheap manufacturing inputs.


Maybe so, but I will still choose it 100% of the time over any form of Government that declares Socialism as the answer.


If only it was as simple as you, one individual among millions, making such a decision. If only here in America we practiced a pure form of capitalism (We don't) or a pure form of socialism (we don't).

Instead, as I assume you well know, both are interwoven and it's really just a question of how much of each at any given time in the history of our economy. In other words it's not black or white, but gray....

For example, it seems to me that we need a dash or two more of socialism in present day America given the unequal distribution of wealth in this nation and the rise of a relatively few corporations that more and more control more and more of the American economy....Corporations owned and controlled by relatively few people. In the years and decades ahead, perhaps less socialism and more capitalism.

[Edited on 10/1/2019 by Chain]


But remember that corporations are people

And never forget Citizens United.


BIGV - 10/2/2019 at 12:42 AM

quote:
As completely disingenuous as this inquiry is, the easiest answer to "thriving Socialism" is China.


Turn on your TV and watch how just how staunchly the people of Hong Kong are trying to resist....


BIGV - 10/2/2019 at 12:47 AM

quote:
quote:
But name ONE country where a TOTALLY Socialist economy and Government is thriving.


quote:
You would think it would be so easy, just pointing out ONE example where the left's beloved Socialist ideals are thriving. Just one, and please make it a Country with a population larger than the state of Kansas...

If you won't, I am guessing it is because you can not.


So your “opinion” is that the left wants a TOTALLY socialist country? Or are you just being dramatic and emotional?


Well let's see, Health insurance for all "Who is going to Pay"? 15$ an hour. Free College, "Who is going to pay"? Andrew Yang and his $1000 a month for everyone "Who is going to pay"?

Shall I go on?

"Or are you just being dramatic and emotional?"..LOL...You just can't help it, I have once again disagreed and this is how you handle it. Too funny.


OriginalGoober - 10/2/2019 at 01:07 AM


I came hear looking for any Biden articles? Has anyone come across any MSM articles about the Biden -Ukraine quid pro quo?


Skydog32103 - 10/2/2019 at 02:35 AM

quote:
Well let's see, Health insurance for all "Who is going to Pay"? 15$ an hour. Free College, "Who is going to pay"? Andrew Yang and his $1000 a month for everyone "Who is going to pay"?

Shall I go on?


If you want to state a case for “TOTALLY” socialist, then yes, you’re going to need to go on much much more than three examples.


quote:
"Or are you just being dramatic and emotional?"..LOL...You just can't help it, I have once again disagreed and this is how you handle it. Too funny.


Well, to suggest the left wants a "TOTALLY" socialist U.S., then are you not being dramatic? You gave three examples....wouldn't you say you are being dramatic about it?



[Edited on 10/2/2019 by Skydog32103]


BIGV - 10/2/2019 at 02:42 AM

quote:
quote:
Well let's see, Health insurance for all "Who is going to Pay"? 15$ an hour. Free College, "Who is going to pay"? Andrew Yang and his $1000 a month for everyone "Who is going to pay"?

Shall I go on?


If you want to state a case for “TOTALLY” socialist, then yes, you’re going to need to go on much much more than three examples.


quote:
"Or are you just being dramatic and emotional?"..LOL...You just can't help it, I have once again disagreed and this is how you handle it. Too funny.


Well, to suggest the left wants a "TOTALLY" socialist U.S., then are you not being dramatic? You gave three examples....wouldn't you say you are being dramatic about it?


No, but knock yourself out bro'. I don't care.

Enjoy the evening


Skydog32103 - 10/2/2019 at 02:43 AM

quote:
I came hear looking for any Biden articles? Has anyone come across any MSM articles about the Biden -Ukraine quid pro quo?


"hear", lol.


goldtop - 10/2/2019 at 03:49 AM



I guess we don't have any money for basic human services like a quality education and healthcare


MartinD28 - 10/2/2019 at 12:03 PM

quote:


I guess we don't have any money for basic human services like a quality education and healthcare


I'm curious how much Congress will appropriate for Trump's desire for alligators & snakes would cost to augment the border wall. If they shoot that down, maybe we can just get Mexico to pay for the alligators and snakes. If not, how about an executive order? Looking forward to hear Trump work that into his immigrant rant at the next rally. Maybe he can hold snakes like those pastors that preach & heal with snakes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/us/politics/trump-border-wars.html


cyclone88 - 10/2/2019 at 12:37 PM

I don't understand how anyone can support Trump. Period. Without reference to party or replacement or political capital, how can any American much less a legislator believe that a man who, aside from being corrupt & lawless, thinks building moats filled w/alligators and snakes at the border, shooting unarmed immigrants in the legs to slow them down if killing them outright is illegal, and makes an offer of cash to a foreign leader in exchange for political dirt on a rival should be president?

Were such a man presented w/o party affiliation to voters he would seem surreal and rejected for mental health reasons. For three years, reasonable members of Congress have supported him and those who objected to him, didn't run for re-election. Presumably competent heads of key agencies and the military have been fired or quit because of this man's volatility. Worse, POTUS isn't the job Trump wants. He wants to be a king, emperor, or dictator like his idols Putin, MBS, and Xi. He had his own fiefdom at the Trump Organization and somehow, through the magic of being of TV celebrity, he landed in the Oval Office.

Impeachment isn't the best choice; invoking the 25th Amendment makes the most sense. The man simply isn't fit for office.


Bhawk - 10/2/2019 at 12:48 PM

quote:
quote:
As completely disingenuous as this inquiry is, the easiest answer to "thriving Socialism" is China.


Turn on your TV and watch how just how staunchly the people of Hong Kong are trying to resist....


Your President is praising them, though. He ain't on the left, but since he's not Hillary, you don't have an issue with it.

Says way more about you than anyone else here.


Bhawk - 10/2/2019 at 12:49 PM

quote:
I don't understand how anyone can support Trump. Period. Without reference to party or replacement or political capital, how can any American much less a legislator believe that a man who, aside from being corrupt & lawless, thinks building moats filled w/alligators and snakes at the border, shooting unarmed immigrants in the legs to slow them down if killing them outright is illegal, and makes an offer of cash to a foreign leader in exchange for political dirt on a rival should be president?

Were such a man presented w/o party affiliation to voters he would seem surreal and rejected for mental health reasons. For three years, reasonable members of Congress have supported him and those who objected to him, didn't run for re-election. Presumably competent heads of key agencies and the military have been fired or quit because of this man's volatility. Worse, POTUS isn't the job Trump wants. He wants to be a king, emperor, or dictator like his idols Putin, MBS, and Xi. He had his own fiefdom at the Trump Organization and somehow, through the magic of being of TV celebrity, he landed in the Oval Office.

Impeachment isn't the best choice; invoking the 25th Amendment makes the most sense. The man simply isn't fit for office.




Because no matter what he does, they will always hate liberals more.

It's just that simple.


Skydog32103 - 10/2/2019 at 01:33 PM

quote:
Because no matter what he does, they will always hate liberals more.

It's just that simple.


This is 100% the root of everything going on here. But as easy as it is to criticize this mentality, people were preyed upon by a massive Russian troll operation that fed them fanatical lies about liberals as far back as the Obama administration, compounded by a disturbed demogogue candidate pouring gas on the fire. They exploited these folks through the wonders of modern technology like predators. They are victims of fraud by the ulimate fraudsters.

I've been most let down by our Republicans in Washington that go along with it for career reasons, even though they are fully aware of how insane all of this is. They are the ones who are supposed to help and know better.

The storm will pass in 2024. I expect the Republicans in Washington will feign ignorance, and there will be an eery calm. People will be so sick and tired of fighting.

Trump is a strong fighter, who also shows glaring examples of low self-esteem, insecurity, rage, and sadness...basically someone who has never felt peace. Because he feels this way, because he's threatened by cool cats like Obama, he fights, and he fights hard. Many Americans feel threatened by change, so they have the same urge to fight those who embrace change...liberals and Democrats. If this is how they are living, and if they relate to Donald Trump and wish to follow him, then part of this equation is that maybe Democrats need to address these fears in a serious manner when explaining their policies.





[Edited on 10/2/2019 by Skydog32103]


BIGV - 10/2/2019 at 02:10 PM

quote:
I don't understand how anyone can support Trump. Period.


And the other half of the Country does not understand how anyone can Vote in line with Democratic ideals and values. Period.

Impasse.


Skydog32103 - 10/2/2019 at 02:24 PM

quote:
I don't understand how anyone can support Trump. Period.


quote:
And the other half of the Country does not understand how anyone can Vote in line with Democratic ideals and values. Period.


He spoke for himself by using the word "I". Why would you say, "and the other half of the country" in response?


Stephen - 10/2/2019 at 02:31 PM

quote:
quote:


The storm will pass in 2024. I expect the Republicans in Washington will feign ignorance, and there will be an eery calm. People will be so sick and tired of fighting.

Trump is a strong fighter, who also shows glaring examples of low self-esteem, insecurity, rage, and sadness...basically someone who has never felt peace. Because he feels this way, because he's threatened by cool cats like Obama, he fights, and he fights hard. Many Americans feel threatened by change, so they have the same urge to fight those who embrace change...liberals and Democrats. If this is how they are living, and if they relate to Donald Trump and wish to follow him, then part of this equation is that maybe Democrats need to address these fears in a serious manner when explaining their policies.
[Edited on 10/2/2019 by Skydog32103]


IMO his re-election is not a foregone conclusion, his many enemies will be working OT to that effect - all good, but the eerie calm you foresee leading up to election day, I personally don’t see happening -

but you could be right, voters might be sick & tired of all the bull **** by next Nov, possibly enhancing re-election chances

The comment about his personal demons - low self esteem, insecurity, rage, sadness - is a little too over the top for me - I don’t see Donald trump as the evil whack job he’s far-&-wide portrayed to be - it’s a fickle public I guess - George W Bush was equally reviled, but was still re-elected

[Edited on 10/2/2019 by Stephen]


BIGV - 10/2/2019 at 02:40 PM

quote:
quote:
I don't understand how anyone can support Trump. Period.


quote:
And the other half of the Country does not understand how anyone can Vote in line with Democratic ideals and values. Period.


He spoke for himself by using the word "I". Why would you say, "and the other half of the country" in response?


Does not the phrase "anyone" infer the 50% who did?


goldtop - 10/2/2019 at 03:20 PM

What exactly are Democratic values and polices?? Fox talking points or reality

I don't know one person that wants open borders, or a weak military, or any of the wack-a-do crap I ear spewed

Every person has their own set of values. I didn't want HC either but when they boiled all of it down to the 2 that counted in the election the path for me was clear because I already knew DT was a buffoon. So the choice for me was a Buffoon for someone that I could deal with for 4 years and then hope to vote out.

There were many that ran under the GOP umbrella that if any sane republican would have followed their values I would have voted for that person this time around. Rubio, Kasich, Even Romney I could have dealt with my difference in policy to not have HC but again the Republican base fell of the meds and went with a buffoon

Now they want to justify the Buffoon because when you vote for a buffoon you must be one first


Skydog32103 - 10/2/2019 at 03:36 PM

quote:
Does not the phrase "anyone" infer the 50% who did?


I'm referring to the subject of the sentences, not the object. He said, "I don't understand...", and you responded in comparison with, "the other half of the country doesn't understand..." Why would you claim to know what half the country does or doesn't understand? And why would you take "I don't understand" as "half the country"? I think you meant to say that YOU don't understand how someone can vote for Democratic ideals and values.


Skydog32103 - 10/2/2019 at 03:55 PM

quote:
but the eerie calm you foresee leading up to election day, I personally don’t see happening -
but you could be right, voters might be sick & tired of all the bull **** by next Nov, possibly enhancing re-election chances


I meant that the eery calm would come in 2024, after his 8 years are up. I do believe he will win again in 2020. By the 8th year, everyone will be completely drained and desperate for serenity.

quote:
The comment about his personal demons - low self esteem, insecurity, rage, sadness - is a little too over the top for me - I don’t see Donald trump as the evil whack job he’s far-&-wide portrayed to be - it’s a fickle public I guess - George W Bush was equally reviled, but was still re-elected


I'm not referring to any of his proposed policies, but how can you listen to his unscripted speeches and daily Tweets and think otherwise? It's a non-stop steady stream of rage and sadness in his demeanor. It's not healthy or normal to blame and attack people everyday.


BIGV - 10/2/2019 at 03:57 PM

quote:
quote:
Does not the phrase "anyone" infer the 50% who did?


I'm referring to the subject of the sentences, not the object. He said, "I don't understand...", and you responded in comparison with, "the other half of the country doesn't understand..." Why would you claim to know what half the country does or doesn't understand? And why would you take "I don't understand" as "half the country"? I think you meant to say that YOU don't understand how someone can vote for Democratic ideals and values.


Take it anyway you choose professor


Skydog32103 - 10/2/2019 at 04:02 PM

quote:
And the other half of the Country does not understand how anyone can Vote in line with Democratic ideals and values. Period.


You don't get to speak for half the country. Period. You speak for yourself. Most people CAN understand differing ideals and values.


cyclone88 - 10/2/2019 at 04:25 PM

quote:
Because no matter what he does, they will always hate liberals more.


True, but my question was REMOVING PARTY AFFILIATION or ALTERNATIVE or SUCCESSOR - just looking at the man himself.

[Edited on 10/2/2019 by cyclone88]


BIGV - 10/2/2019 at 04:48 PM

quote:
quote:
And the other half of the Country does not understand how anyone can Vote in line with Democratic ideals and values. Period.


You don't get to speak for half the country. Period. You speak for yourself. Most people CAN understand differing ideals and values.


Don't think, even for a moment you will ever be in a position to tell me what to do.


BrerRabbit - 10/2/2019 at 04:56 PM


You sound like an old married couple


Skydog32103 - 10/2/2019 at 05:42 PM

quote:
Don't think, even for a moment you will ever be in a position to tell me what to do.


Where did I tell you what to do? Do you speak for half the country or do we all speak for ourselves? You are one defensive dude. I'll move on.


Skydog32103 - 10/2/2019 at 05:46 PM

quote:
And the other half of the Country does not understand how anyone can Vote in line with Democratic ideals and values. Period.


Putting our differences aside for a moment, I have a very sincere and genuine question for you....have Democratic policies ever hurt you in your personal life, or caused some sort of damage? If it has, I'd like to learn about it. Maybe I'm not realizing something.


cyclone88 - 10/2/2019 at 05:52 PM

quote:
You are one defensive dude. I'll move on.


Before you move on, could you maybe get us back on track to my question of looking at Trump objectively w/o party affiliation or scared Congressman or labels - just Don Doe who spouts off about moats w/gators & shooting migrants in the legs to slow them down & openly asks a foreign leader for dirt on his political rival - am I the only one who thinks he is unfit to be president? Thanks.


BIGV - 10/2/2019 at 06:51 PM

quote:
have Democratic policies ever hurt you in your personal life, or caused some sort of damage?


Damage?..No. But having been and continuing to be a working man, I deeply resent the answer for everything to be the Democratic principle of raising Taxes to support those who can not or more importantly to "those who will not work"......Also, the Democratic conclusion that ALL Illegal immigrants are just looking for a "better life" and that WE should shoulder that cost.

It is my money, if I decide to donate it, that is my choice. Do not reach into MY wallet under the pretense that there are people out there who need help. There are soooo many other "sticky" Democratic points; for the purpose of this question, I am vehemently opposed to the diffusion of wealth.

Work harder.
Finish School.
Create your own opportunities.

Imho, any argument against the three points I've listed above strengthens my feelings against The Democratic Party, so please do not counter with such Liberal catch phrases as "White Privilege" or "Not everyone has the same contingencies"....I am without any elaboration,... not buying. There are simply way too many success stories pertaining to people who make the choice to overcome.

A question for you-----"Why are you not a Libertarian or a Republican"?
( I do not care )

Do you understand now?

Add, I am not in the least puzzled by your party affiliation, nor do I have any interest in swaying your opinion about such, which seems to be in complete contrast to your attempts at "communication"....It would appear you've no patience for an opinion that differs from yours.....Your argument as presented is that I am criticizing a "Group" of people and your measured response is to chastise me for having done so.

Interesting math.


Skydog32103 - 10/2/2019 at 07:04 PM

quote:
Before you move on, could you maybe get us back on track to my question of looking at Trump objectively w/o party affiliation or scared Congressman or labels - just Don Doe who spouts off about moats w/gators & shooting migrants in the legs to slow them down & openly asks a foreign leader for dirt on his political rival - am I the only one who thinks he is unfit to be president? Thanks.


Not sure if you meant that for me or not, but I am certainly in your corner. But I think his supporters agree with you, but they just don't care because he's fighting their fight, which is more important than whether he meets the qualifications. You have to understand that this is the fight of their lifetime.


Skydog32103 - 10/2/2019 at 08:18 PM

quote:
Damage?..No. But having been and continuing to be a working man, I deeply resent the answer for everything to be the Democratic principle of raising Taxes to support those who can not or more importantly to "those who will not work"......Also, the Democratic conclusion that ALL Illegal immigrants are just looking for a "better life" and that WE should shoulder that cost.

It is my money, if I decide to donate it, that is my choice. Do not reach into MY wallet under the pretense that there are people out there who need help. There are soooo many other "sticky" Democratic points; for the purpose of this question, I am vehemently opposed to the diffusion of wealth.

Work harder.
Finish School.
Create your own opportunities.


So then it sounds like your concerns are largely financial, and that's certainly understandable.


cyclone88 - 10/2/2019 at 09:00 PM

quote:
Not sure if you meant that for me or not, but I am certainly in your corner.

Yes, skydog, it was meant for you. I'm trying to put his party, his supporters, everything aside & just say doesn't this guy w/these illegal & mindblowing words & actions seem ---- well, not mentally fit for the presidency?

Glad to know there are 2 of us who think so.

Were he anywhere other than the Oval Office spouting about gators in moats & shooting people in the leg so they can't run fast I think someone would be dialing 911 fairly quickly.


BrerRabbit - 10/2/2019 at 09:20 PM

quote:
. . .doesn't this guy w/these illegal & mindblowing words & actions seem ---- well, not mentally fit for the presidency?


I wouldn't trust him to babysit my kid for an hour, let alone watch over the country. Trump would clearly fail the DOD psychological testing and background integrity checks required of anyone working with or around our nuclear arsenal, down to the janitors and cafeteria workers - and this clown can hit the button.

He is crazy, and everyone who follows him is crazy. Kookoo for koko puffs.


BIGV - 10/2/2019 at 09:24 PM

quote:
quote:
. . .doesn't this guy w/these illegal & mindblowing words & actions seem ---- well, not mentally fit for the presidency?


I wouldn't trust him to babysit my kid for an hour, let alone watch over the country. Trump would clearly fail the DOD psychological testing and background integrity checks required of anyone working with or around our nuclear arsenal, down to the janitors and cafeteria workers - and this clown can hit the button.

He is crazy, and everyone who follows him is crazy. Kookoo for koko puffs.


Interesting, my unsolicited advice is "Don't Vote for him".


BrerRabbit - 10/2/2019 at 09:31 PM

quote:
Interesting, my unsolicited advice is "Don't Vote for him".


I think I had that figured out by now, but thanks for the wisdom.



Chain - 10/2/2019 at 11:30 PM

Crazy is an understatement....He's also growing ever more desperate as can be seen by the lashing out with what seems to me to be just stupid excuses and deflection attempts by blaming everyone but himself for the mess he's created for himself. Case in point was the craziness from today in the oval office.

What is as equally bizarre as the President's behavior is the lengths the people around him will go to protect him. What is it about this guy that makes people believe the oh so obvious con he's playing? If it smells and tastes like dog sh*t, it probably is. Why can't his supporters smell it too?


cyclone88 - 10/2/2019 at 11:33 PM

quote:
I wouldn't trust him to babysit my kid for an hour, let alone watch over the country.

Great so I'm not alone in thinking the man - regardless of party affiliation - is not fit for office.

Although I've thought the 25th amendment should've been invoked the day after his inauguration, there is a new possibility w/the Ukraine quid pro quo - he may have torpedoed his eligibility to be a candidate in 2020 by tampering w/that election.




Chain - 10/2/2019 at 11:49 PM

quote:
quote:
I wouldn't trust him to babysit my kid for an hour, let alone watch over the country.

Great so I'm not alone in thinking the man - regardless of party affiliation - is not fit for office.

Although I've thought the 25th amendment should've been invoked the day after his inauguration, there is a new possibility w/the Ukraine quid pro quo - he may have torpedoed his eligibility to be a candidate in 2020 by tampering w/that election.






I wonder if there are some Republicans within the party hierarchy that have reached the limit with this crook and are thinking they could just vote to impeach this nut job and take their chances with Mike Pence for the rest of this term. For the sake of the future of the Republican party mind you and not necessarily for the country.

But then again, if the most recent reporting is true, Pence may well be up to his neck in this Ukraine thing too....


BIGV - 10/2/2019 at 11:51 PM

quote:
I wonder if there are some Republicans within the party hierarchy that have reached the limit with this crook and are thinking they could just vote to impeach this nut job and take their chances with Mike Pence for the rest of this term.


You do understand what Impeachment is.......?


goldtop - 10/2/2019 at 11:56 PM

quote:
Crazy is an understatement....He's also growing ever more desperate as can be seen by the lashing out with what seems to me to be just stupid excuses and deflection attempts by blaming everyone but himself for the mess he's created for himself. Case in point was the craziness from today in the oval office.

What is as equally bizarre as the President's behavior is the lengths the people around him will go to protect him. What is it about this guy that makes people believe the oh so obvious con he's playing? If it smells and tastes like dog sh*t, it probably is. Why can't his supporters smell it too?


No doubt why they hooked their horse to that wagon and didn't cut the reins long ago is again beyond me...He's useless, doesn't care about anything but himself and controlling the news cycle

quote:
quote:
I wouldn't trust him to babysit my kid for an hour, let alone watch over the country.

Great so I'm not alone in thinking the man - regardless of party affiliation - is not fit for office.

Although I've thought the 25th amendment should've been invoked the day after his inauguration, there is a new possibility w/the Ukraine quid pro quo - he may have torpedoed his eligibility to be a candidate in 2020 by tampering w/that election.



There's many who agree with you...There's at least one we know who claims to have not voted for him but seems unfazed by the total corruption on top of the obvious personality issues and working against our allies

It makes me wonder whose families fought in WWII and are just OK with crapping on our allies while kissing up to Putin, Kim and Saudi Arabia and looking for ways to corrupt our next election...oh yeah he has the nuke codes too


MartinD28 - 10/3/2019 at 12:15 AM

quote:
Crazy is an understatement....He's also growing ever more desperate as can be seen by the lashing out with what seems to me to be just stupid excuses and deflection attempts by blaming everyone but himself for the mess he's created for himself. Case in point was the craziness from today in the oval office.

What is as equally bizarre as the President's behavior is the lengths the people around him will go to protect him. What is it about this guy that makes people believe the oh so obvious con he's playing? If it smells and tastes like dog sh*t, it probably is. Why can't his supporters smell it too?


I watched him today on TV. He is one angry and desperate snake. He senses the alligators closing in on him. He was amped up with rage today. He went after Biden, Dems, the media, and whistleblower today. Wouldn't answer a reporter's question, lied, made up stories, and was 1000 miles from what we would expect of a statesman.

The upside to his out of control behavior is that SNL got some good stuff for Saturday night's episode.


MartinD28 - 10/3/2019 at 12:25 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
I wouldn't trust him to babysit my kid for an hour, let alone watch over the country.

Great so I'm not alone in thinking the man - regardless of party affiliation - is not fit for office.

Although I've thought the 25th amendment should've been invoked the day after his inauguration, there is a new possibility w/the Ukraine quid pro quo - he may have torpedoed his eligibility to be a candidate in 2020 by tampering w/that election.






I wonder if there are some Republicans within the party hierarchy that have reached the limit with this crook and are thinking they could just vote to impeach this nut job and take their chances with Mike Pence for the rest of this term. For the sake of the future of the Republican party mind you and not necessarily for the country.




Doubtful, Chain.

Trump has neutered most of the GOP Senators. They're along for the good ride of complicity.

Just take a look at the way Trump treated Ted Cruz, Cruz's wife, and father during the primaries - horrible and despicable. Now Ted says to Ukraine Don, "Sir, can I have another"?


Chain - 10/3/2019 at 01:44 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I wouldn't trust him to babysit my kid for an hour, let alone watch over the country.

Great so I'm not alone in thinking the man - regardless of party affiliation - is not fit for office.

Although I've thought the 25th amendment should've been invoked the day after his inauguration, there is a new possibility w/the Ukraine quid pro quo - he may have torpedoed his eligibility to be a candidate in 2020 by tampering w/that election.






I wonder if there are some Republicans within the party hierarchy that have reached the limit with this crook and are thinking they could just vote to impeach this nut job and take their chances with Mike Pence for the rest of this term. For the sake of the future of the Republican party mind you and not necessarily for the country.




Doubtful, Chain.

Trump has neutered most of the GOP Senators. They're along for the good ride of complicity.

Just take a look at the way Trump treated Ted Cruz, Cruz's wife, and father during the primaries - horrible and despicable. Now Ted says to Ukraine Don, "Sir, can I have another"?


Ha, ha.....Right out of the scene from "Animal House". It says a great deal about the BS politicians in both parties will endure to keep their relatively cozy jobs in Washington.


Bhawk - 10/3/2019 at 03:18 PM

quote:
quote:
Because no matter what he does, they will always hate liberals more.

It's just that simple.


This is 100% the root of everything going on here. But as easy as it is to criticize this mentality, people were preyed upon by a massive Russian troll operation that fed them fanatical lies about liberals as far back as the Obama administration, compounded by a disturbed demogogue candidate pouring gas on the fire. They exploited these folks through the wonders of modern technology like predators. They are victims of fraud by the ulimate fraudsters.


It all goes back waaaaay longer than that. Where we are now has just been the natural progression of things.


BIGV - 10/3/2019 at 04:43 PM

quote:
So much for the intelligent dialogue that was developing.


Interesting statement in that this is a belief that infects both major parties. Roughly translated ....

..."It's easy to talk Politics when everyone involved sees things the way we do"


BIGV - 10/3/2019 at 04:48 PM

quote:
Because no matter what he does, they will always hate liberals more.

It's just that simple.


No, it is not. For everyone that despises Liberals and the Policies they stand behind, there is someone who has no tolerance for The right wing and the Conservative narrative.

Politics and the power yielded is very much like a pendulum, back and forth we go and each time one party moves ahead in the WH, Congress or Senate, all of the "Headway" made by your party becomes secondary. It is that balance that allows us to continue to move forward.....


Bhawk - 10/3/2019 at 05:55 PM

quote:
quote:
Because no matter what he does, they will always hate liberals more.

It's just that simple.


No, it is not. For everyone that despises Liberals and the Policies they stand behind, there is someone who has no tolerance for The right wing and the Conservative narrative.

Politics and the power yielded is very much like a pendulum, back and forth we go and each time one party moves ahead in the WH, Congress or Senate, all of the "Headway" made by your party becomes secondary. It is that balance that allows us to continue to move forward.....


Yes, it is that simple.

Both sides are not exactly the same. There are not two equally valid sides to every issue.

Tolerance and agreement are not the same thing, either.

There's a lot of things we don't move forward on. Ever.


BIGV - 10/3/2019 at 05:57 PM

quote:
There's a lot of things we don't move forward on. Ever.


For example?


BrerRabbit - 10/3/2019 at 06:31 PM

quote:
I am vehemently opposed to the diffusion of wealth.


Then stop paying Fed tax and stay the hell off our public lands, until you "voluntarily donate" a user fee to the rest of us who share ownership. Did you know that before public land was nationalized, ONE ranching family OWNED all the present National Forest land from Flagstaff to Cottonwood? Until they were bought out by the US govt and all those billions of $ of real estate wealth you enjoy every day was distributed equally among all of us? I met a couple of them, who still run cattle on the rim - they still think it belongs to them, the way they talk. According to them we are all trespassers. Same deal with vast stretches of public lands across the Western Interior. Nationalized. That is textbook hardline socialism. A rockbottom bargain for the taxpayer, privlege of land use, a priceless resource for a pittance.


Skydog32103 - 10/3/2019 at 06:33 PM

If there's people on this site who welcome a foreign country's investigation into an opponent, I can understand that urge among the commom folk like all of us - we're not supposed to be perfect. But the point is that common folk like us, and like Trump, can't and shouldn't be President of the United States of America if we cannot fight off that important urge, or see the extremely dangerous risks of it. We all know this ability should be a mandatory requirement for any leader of any country.


BIGV - 10/3/2019 at 06:44 PM

quote:
quote:
I am vehemently opposed to the diffusion of wealth.


Then stop paying Fed tax and stay the hell off our public lands, until you "voluntarily donate" a user fee to the rest of us who share ownership. Did you know that before public land was nationalized, ONE ranching family OWNED all the present National Forest land from Flagstaff to Cottonwood? Until they were bought out by the US govt and all those billions of $ of real estate wealth you enjoy every day was distributed equally among all of us? I met a couple of them, who still run cattle on the rim - they still think it belongs to them, the way they talk. According to them we are all trespassers. Same deal with vast stretches of public lands across the Western Interior. Nationalized. That is textbook hardline socialism. A rockbottom bargain for the taxpayer, privlege of land use, a priceless resource for a pittance.


Y a w n.......


BrerRabbit - 10/3/2019 at 06:56 PM

quote:
Y a w n.......



Sounds like someone's ready for a nice cozy nap.


BIGV - 10/3/2019 at 07:04 PM

quote:
quote:
Y a w n.......



Sounds like someone's ready for a nice cozy nap.


Exactly.


BrerRabbit - 10/3/2019 at 08:28 PM

quote:
quote:

Y a w n.......

Sounds like someone's ready for a nice cozy nap.

Exactly



Gotta agree, the self-evident makes for hohum boring discussion points. Enjoy your beauty sleep.


Stephen - 10/3/2019 at 08:29 PM

I second that motion for this thread too - let it rest


BIGV - 10/3/2019 at 09:31 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:

Y a w n.......

Sounds like someone's ready for a nice cozy nap.

Exactly



Gotta agree, the self-evident makes for hohum boring discussion points. Enjoy your beauty sleep.


Not exactly "sleeping"...or "napping", more of a respite from those who choose to preach the Gospel as they see it and then are bothered when people have the audacity to disagree.


BrerRabbit - 10/3/2019 at 09:55 PM

quote:
Not exactly "sleeping"...or "napping", more of a respite from those who choose to preach the Gospel as they see it and then are bothered when people have the audacity to disagree.


Posting "Yawn" does not exactly strike me as daring and audacious disagreement. It isn't disagreement at all, it is saying that the post you are replying to is boring.

Saying "enjoy your nap" in response to "yawn" does not show a high degree of being bothered. It more shows a concession to your point of boredom.

Spare us your self-righteous kick, your "Lone Defender of Freedom" act, it is contrived, stale, and transparent. We are all middle of the road middle class working squares, man, more similar than different.


Skydog32103 - 10/3/2019 at 11:12 PM

quote:
and then are bothered when people have the audacity to disagree.


when "people"? He was talking to you directly.


Skydog32103 - 10/3/2019 at 11:24 PM

quote:
I find it absolutely hilarious that the Democrats main focus is on impeachment and not concentrating on one Candidate who can win in November 2020.

Maybe Beto can knock on every door in his home sate and attempt to take guns away from Law abiding citizens.

Or Andrew Yang can get started writing checks for $1,000.

Joe Biden could could start reminding himself to go to his Memory Class.

So much work ahead and so little time.


quote:
Damage?..No. But having been and continuing to be a working man, I deeply resent the answer for everything to be the Democratic principle of raising Taxes to support those who can not or more importantly to "those who will not work"......Also, the Democratic conclusion that ALL Illegal immigrants are just looking for a "better life" and that WE should shoulder that cost.

It is my money, if I decide to donate it, that is my choice. Do not reach into MY wallet under the pretense that there are people out there who need help.

...Your argument as presented is that I am criticizing a "Group" of people and your measured response is to chastise me for having done so.


quote:
and then are bothered when people have the audacity to disagree.


So if we "disagree" with your chastizing of Democrats, then you are the real victim here being chastized......unreal.



[Edited on 10/3/2019 by Skydog32103]


BrerRabbit - 10/3/2019 at 11:47 PM

You don't seem to get it. The way Whipping Post works is we say whatever comes to mind, then when others don't like what we said we get to go "Alamo", and be the last proud beleaguered defender of civilization surrounded by bloodthirsty Philistines. Think the last scene of a bunch of Charlton Heston movies, that's the general idea.


OriginalGoober - 10/4/2019 at 12:13 AM

So the whistle-blowerrr met privately with Adam Schifffft and we are told that this was nothing to see here... Where have I heard this before? Oh, could be when Loretta lynch met with Bill Clinton (sic) on the tarmac and discussed grandkids and family. Nothing to do about illegal servers and DNC fave.



MartinD28 - 10/4/2019 at 12:30 AM

quote:
So the whistle-blowerrr met privately with Adam Schifffft and we are told that this was nothing to see here... Where have I heard this before? Oh, could be when Loretta lynch met with Bill Clinton (sic) on the tarmac and discussed grandkids and family. Nothing to do about illegal servers and DNC fave.





Big picture, Goob?

So you think that Trump is just an innocent guy in his day to day transactions with everything from honesty to emoluments to supporting despots over our security agencies to having foreign governments interfere in our elections to being just one big victim in all things he's trying to do as the ultimate & self described stable genius that he is?


2112 - 10/4/2019 at 01:14 AM

quote:
So the whistle-blowerrr met privately with Adam Schifffft and we are told that this was nothing to see here... Where have I heard this before? Oh, could be when Loretta lynch met with Bill Clinton (sic) on the tarmac and discussed grandkids and family. Nothing to do about illegal servers and DNC fave.



We've also seen Trump meet with Putin privately with nobody else in the room. Maybe your right that only sleazy things can happen at these private meetings.


Stephen - 10/4/2019 at 04:10 AM

The Dem Nat’l Convention is next July in Milwaukee
IF the Dems have successfully impeached-&-ousted Trump by then, it will be a festive occasion
IF, however, impeachment proceedings are still going on w/all the castigation/invective etc - it’ll be a 180 the other way - a disaster
They have 8 months to get it done - but it still won’t guarantee anything -

that’s where I think they’re mistaken IMO - believing their guy will get elected b/c voters think that anyone is better than Donald Trump, hence that amped up effort to get him out of there Now & not leave anything to chance in the general election


2112 - 10/4/2019 at 05:49 AM

quote:
The Dem Nat’l Convention is next July in Milwaukee
IF the Dems have successfully impeached-&-ousted Trump by then, it will be a festive occasion
IF, however, impeachment proceedings are still going on w/all the castigation/invective etc - it’ll be a 180 the other way - a disaster
They have 8 months to get it done - but it still won’t guarantee anything -

that’s where I think they’re mistaken IMO - believing their guy will get elected b/c voters think that anyone is better than Donald Trump, hence that amped up effort to get him out of there Now & not leave anything to chance in the general election


The Democrats already know the senate won't remove him. I think they just want to send a message that Trump can't keep breaking the law at will and not getting called out on it. If he gets impeached at least his presidency will go into the history books with an embarrassing mark on it.


cyclone88 - 10/4/2019 at 12:12 PM

quote:
that’s where I think they’re mistaken IMO - believing their guy will get elected b/c voters think that anyone is better than Donald Trump, hence that amped up effort to get him out of there Now & not leave anything to chance in the general election

Impeachment is on the front burner now because he's done such egregious things to TAMPER W/THE 2020 ELECTION - calling on a quid pro quo w/Ukraine's leader and now, publicly & loudly asking Xi & China to do the same. This isn't about pay offs or corruption or Mueller that the Democrats didn't move forward on. It's about a fundamental tenet of US democracy - elections.

Democrats DON'T think that virtually any nominee will beat Trump & they've made a mistake in not identifying & getting behind a single winning candidate. There are political scientists & legal experts who think Republicans are making a mistake in not having a candidate other than Trump at the ready because by blatantly tampering with the upcoming election, he's made himself (& Pence) ineligible to run.


MartinD28 - 10/4/2019 at 01:29 PM

quote:
quote:
that’s where I think they’re mistaken IMO - believing their guy will get elected b/c voters think that anyone is better than Donald Trump, hence that amped up effort to get him out of there Now & not leave anything to chance in the general election

This isn't about pay offs or corruption or Mueller that the Democrats didn't move forward on. It's about a fundamental tenet of US democracy - elections.




I truly don't believe that Republicans care anymore about "fundamental tenet of US democracy - elections."

I don't say this as sarcasm or comedy. I think that the GOP at the highest levels (Barr, Pompeo, Congress) as well as the GOP electorate have turned their heads to just about all things Trump including his blatant abuse of power and dismanteling of the greatest tentet we have as a country as you have described. What have we, as country come to? The framers would turnover in their graves.


cyclone88 - 10/4/2019 at 02:38 PM

quote:
I truly don't believe that Republicans care anymore about "fundamental tenet of US democracy - elections."

I agree and has been said ad nauseum on this site, Trump's acolytes will do anything to hold onto their seats or whatever else they fear by crossing him.

However, election tampering IS a crime and the man has now publicly asked 2 foreign governments to tamper w/his perceived rival in order to affect the 2020 outcome. No transcription errors. No fabrication. No misrepresentation. He did it in front of the press & TV cameras.

Election tampering doesn't need the DOJ to prosecute or Congress to impeach. Any AG in any state can file charges.


Stephen - 10/4/2019 at 02:52 PM

quote:
quote:


Democrats DON'T think that virtually any nominee will beat Trump & they've made a mistake in not identifying & getting behind a single winning candidate. There are political scientists & legal experts who think Republicans are making a mistake in not having a candidate other than Trump at the ready because by blatantly tampering with the upcoming election, he's made himself (& Pence) ineligible to run.


I need to be more knowledgeable about the whole process
At what point would the Trump-Pence ticket be declared ineligible - as a result of impeachment - or by a motion on the floor of the GOP convention - or at some other point in time

Dfrnt subject, Maybe, lacking a single candidate to identify & get behind, the Democrats should endorse a Biden-Bernie Sanders ticket

Bernie is 78 & had a health scare recently - IMO he wouldn’t be able to withstand the rigors of being president, but IMO would be an effective VP - Joe (76) is no youngster either but such a ticket, as of right now, might be the Dems’ best bet toward their ultimate stated goal - not so much Winning the White House, but removing Trump From it

Plus, in tandem w/Bernie, Biden could shoulder the load & provide effective experienced popular leadership - in the same fashion as previous elders like Ike & Ronald Reagan did - just sayin

[Edited on 10/4/2019 by Stephen]


goldtop - 10/4/2019 at 02:52 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
that’s where I think they’re mistaken IMO - believing their guy will get elected b/c voters think that anyone is better than Donald Trump, hence that amped up effort to get him out of there Now & not leave anything to chance in the general election

This isn't about pay offs or corruption or Mueller that the Democrats didn't move forward on. It's about a fundamental tenet of US democracy - elections.




I truly don't believe that Republicans care anymore about "fundamental tenet of US democracy - elections."

I don't say this as sarcasm or comedy. I think that the GOP at the highest levels (Barr, Pompeo, Congress) as well as the GOP electorate have turned their heads to just about all things Trump including his blatant abuse of power and dismanteling of the greatest tentet we have as a country as you have described. What have we, as country come to? The framers would turnover in their graves.


They see the tides changing with immigration no longer coming from western European countries. They see what they call the "browning" of America happening in front of their face and they don't like that those people will most likely vote democratic. So cheating to save the white world from reality and the destruction of our democracy is their chosen direction. It's not just the politicians it's those who voted in those politicians and still stand by their vote that don't care about what US values are. What's written on the statue of liberty. What my father and many of your families fought and died for in WWII. They don't care and I never in my life ever really followed politics that closely until this last election. I never feared for our government or democracy under any other president.

Knowing that DT for the last 40 years has been nothing but a buffoon and then to watch all of the other crap he pulled during his campaign and got elected is when my attention turned. I'd actually like to go back to the other way of living but this is way too important. Those who seem unfazed by all of it and still back him don't care about our democracy. Actions always speak louder than words, and lame justifications are just that. Empty word backed by actions that say I'm all in for this


BIGV - 10/4/2019 at 02:59 PM

quote:
They see the tides changing with immigration no longer coming from western European countries. They see what they call the "browning" of America happening in front of their face and they don't like that those people will most likely vote democratic.


Interesting in that a lot of these immigrants come from countries where the Government takes care of them in the form of social programs and which Party will continue to do this?


goldtop - 10/4/2019 at 03:13 PM

quote:
quote:
They see the tides changing with immigration no longer coming from western European countries. They see what they call the "browning" of America happening in front of their face and they don't like that those people will most likely vote democratic.


Interesting in that a lot of these immigrants come from countries where the Government takes care of them in the form of social programs and which Party will continue to do this?


Thanks for making my point with a lame justification for being all in on whats happening. We aren't those countries and weren't Italy when my family came here. They come to seek the American way of life like my family did. Only in your fearful head are they here to change that. So we get a lame justification for allow Trump to destroy our country


BIGV - 10/4/2019 at 04:06 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
They see the tides changing with immigration no longer coming from western European countries. They see what they call the "browning" of America happening in front of their face and they don't like that those people will most likely vote democratic.


Interesting in that a lot of these immigrants come from countries where the Government takes care of them in the form of social programs and which Party will continue to do this?


Thanks for making my point with a lame justification for being all in on whats happening. We aren't those countries and weren't Italy when my family came here. They come to seek the American way of life like my family did. Only in your fearful head are they here to change that. So we get a lame justification for allow Trump to destroy our country


If you are insinuating that "Color" is the core of immigration concerns, well, you are dead wrong. First and foremost I wish them to follow the LAW when entering this country as my Fiancee and myself are doing. Secondly I wish for all hard working citizens of this country to keep their hard earned money and spen it the way they see fit and not because there are people here who are expecting "help" all while entering Illegally.


Skydog32103 - 10/4/2019 at 04:21 PM

quote:
They see the tides changing with immigration no longer coming from western European countries. They see what they call the "browning" of America happening in front of their face and they don't like that those people will most likely vote democratic. So cheating to save the white world from reality and the destruction of our democracy is their chosen direction.


Color is probably part of the story, but I think it’s also about their perceived threat of immigrants in general, in terms of jobs, especially for the working class folks. This fear is certainly understandable - their livelihood is at stake.


BrerRabbit - 10/4/2019 at 05:10 PM

quote:
First and foremost I wish them to follow the LAW when entering this country as my Fiancee and myself are doing.


"Casado hoy, divorcio mañana!" Married today, divorce tomorrow Oldest immigration trick in the book. Perfectly legal of course. Not only does she get to be a citizen, she'll get half of all your property.

Run away, brother! Warning Will Robinson! Danger! Danger!



[Edited on 10/4/2019 by BrerRabbit]


MartinD28 - 10/4/2019 at 05:11 PM

quote:
quote:
They see the tides changing with immigration no longer coming from western European countries. They see what they call the "browning" of America happening in front of their face and they don't like that those people will most likely vote democratic. So cheating to save the white world from reality and the destruction of our democracy is their chosen direction.


Color is probably part of the story, but I think it’s also about their perceived threat of immigrants in general, in terms of jobs, especially for the working class folks. This fear is certainly understandable - their livelihood is at stake.


Yet in some cases the immigrants are taking the jobs that many Americans choose not to take. It's easier to accept gov't assistance, wear a MAGA hat, and bitch about immigration.


goldtop - 10/4/2019 at 05:38 PM

quote:
quote:
They see the tides changing with immigration no longer coming from western European countries. They see what they call the "browning" of America happening in front of their face and they don't like that those people will most likely vote democratic. So cheating to save the white world from reality and the destruction of our democracy is their chosen direction.


Color is probably part of the story, but I think it’s also about their perceived threat of immigrants in general, in terms of jobs, especially for the working class folks. This fear is certainly understandable - their livelihood is at stake.


Most of the jobs immigrants take are jobs we generally reject, field work, janitorial, restaurant cleaning jobs. Some start their own businesses. Both my grandfathers owned their own business. One was a commercial fisherman(A green card holder) and the other was a fruit merchant. I'm not sure of his status because he died when my dad was 11 in 1933. None of my grandparents spoke English, maybe just a few words. Like most immigrants they lived within their community and tried to service both their community but also try to assimilate and offer their services to all Americans.

There is so much muck that isn't true that are just talking points

quote:
quote:
First and foremost I wish them to follow the LAW when entering this country as my Fiancee and myself are doing.


"Casado hoy, divorcio mañana!" Married today, divorce tomorrow Oldest immigration trick in the book. Perfectly legal of course. Not only does she get to be a citizen, she'll get half of all your property.

Run away, brother! Warning Will Robinson! Danger! Danger!



[Edited on 10/4/2019 by BrerRabbit]


Probably will happen to DT after he's arrested and jailed. Hopefully for BIGV that doesn't happen I wish nothing bad on anyone here...

quote:
quote:
quote:
They see the tides changing with immigration no longer coming from western European countries. They see what they call the "browning" of America happening in front of their face and they don't like that those people will most likely vote democratic. So cheating to save the white world from reality and the destruction of our democracy is their chosen direction.


Color is probably part of the story, but I think it’s also about their perceived threat of immigrants in general, in terms of jobs, especially for the working class folks. This fear is certainly understandable - their livelihood is at stake.


Yet in some cases the immigrants are taking the jobs that many Americans choose not to take. It's easier to accept gov't assistance, wear a MAGA hat, and bitch about immigration.


In most cases. The MAGA's refuse to re-educate themselves to the current needs and want to hold on to old jobs that are going away. Instead of embracing green tech and creating new jobs they resist. Not all green tech will pan out but the cream always rises to the top and then there will be a huge number of jobs along with all the support jobs that get created.

If we could also pass a comprehensiveness infrastructure bill there would be a huge boom in the economy

If your job is a buggy whip maker ya might want to look into a job education program


Skydog32103 - 10/4/2019 at 08:56 PM

quote:
Most of the jobs immigrants take are jobs we generally reject, field work, janitorial, restaurant cleaning jobs.


But we can't ignore perhaps one of the biggest and most important industries - construction and labor, a.k.a. the working man, which are jobs Americans do want and need. Immigrants are heavily involved in the construction and labor industry, which also happens to be the traditional career for the blue collar American. I'm only exploring this side of the argument to play devil's advocate. I'm suggesting anyone in Washington, whether Republican or Democrat, to craft a campaign to address these fears among the American working class, so that they don't feel a need to follow a snake like Trump, who has only preyed on them for his own ego.


goldtop - 10/4/2019 at 10:00 PM

quote:
quote:
Most of the jobs immigrants take are jobs we generally reject, field work, janitorial, restaurant cleaning jobs.


But we can't ignore perhaps one of the biggest and most important industries - construction and labor, a.k.a. the working man, which are jobs Americans do want and need. Immigrants are heavily involved in the construction and labor industry, which also happens to be the traditional career for the blue collar American. I'm only exploring this side of the argument to play devil's advocate. I'm suggesting anyone in Washington, whether Republican or Democrat, to craft a campaign to address these fears among the American working class, so that they don't feel a need to follow a snake like Trump, who has only preyed on them for his own ego.


I guess we can make the same argument for IT, doctors and a lot of other jobs here in the US. I live in an extremely diverse area, The Silicon Valley. I teach a piano class at the local adult ed center and I'm the only white person in the room most semesters. Most of my students are from India and Asian countries as are my private students and the people I do Piano tuning work for. The only time I generally interact with other white people is at family events and home, and my wife is an immigrant from Portugal. Her family came here in 1959 and she is a naturalized citizen. She was a green card holder from the age of 4 until 12. Her family had a sponsor when they came.


PhotoRon286 - 10/5/2019 at 11:27 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
They see the tides changing with immigration no longer coming from western European countries. They see what they call the "browning" of America happening in front of their face and they don't like that those people will most likely vote democratic. So cheating to save the white world from reality and the destruction of our democracy is their chosen direction.


Color is probably part of the story, but I think it’s also about their perceived threat of immigrants in general, in terms of jobs, especially for the working class folks. This fear is certainly understandable - their livelihood is at stake.


Most of the jobs immigrants take are jobs we generally reject, field work, janitorial, restaurant cleaning jobs. Some start their own businesses. Both my grandfathers owned their own business. One was a commercial fisherman(A green card holder) and the other was a fruit merchant. I'm not sure of his status because he died when my dad was 11 in 1933. None of my grandparents spoke English, maybe just a few words. Like most immigrants they lived within their community and tried to service both their community but also try to assimilate and offer their services to all Americans.

There is so much muck that isn't true that are just talking points

quote:
quote:
First and foremost I wish them to follow the LAW when entering this country as my Fiancee and myself are doing.


"Casado hoy, divorcio mañana!" Married today, divorce tomorrow Oldest immigration trick in the book. Perfectly legal of course. Not only does she get to be a citizen, she'll get half of all your property.

Run away, brother! Warning Will Robinson! Danger! Danger!



[Edited on 10/4/2019 by BrerRabbit]


Probably will happen to DT after he's arrested and jailed. Hopefully for BIGV that doesn't happen I wish nothing bad on anyone here...

quote:
quote:
quote:
They see the tides changing with immigration no longer coming from western European countries. They see what they call the "browning" of America happening in front of their face and they don't like that those people will most likely vote democratic. So cheating to save the white world from reality and the destruction of our democracy is their chosen direction.


Color is probably part of the story, but I think it’s also about their perceived threat of immigrants in general, in terms of jobs, especially for the working class folks. This fear is certainly understandable - their livelihood is at stake.


Yet in some cases the immigrants are taking the jobs that many Americans choose not to take. It's easier to accept gov't assistance, wear a MAGA hat, and bitch about immigration.


In most cases. The MAGA's refuse to re-educate themselves to the current needs and want to hold on to old jobs that are going away. Instead of embracing green tech and creating new jobs they resist. Not all green tech will pan out but the cream always rises to the top and then there will be a huge number of jobs along with all the support jobs that get created.

If we could also pass a comprehensiveness infrastructure bill there would be a huge boom in the economy

If your job is a buggy whip maker ya might want to look into a job education program


EGG ZAKK LEE!

If those poor, unemployed coal miners want a safer, more meaningful job, they should learn to install solar panels.


OriginalGoober - 10/9/2019 at 01:00 AM


Good strategy for the President to ignore Pelosi and Schiff and their fishing expedition. See you in court, where evidence matters, not just Russia collusion part 2.


pops42 - 10/9/2019 at 01:40 AM

quote:

Good strategy for the President to ignore Pelosi and Schiff and their fishing expedition. See you in court, where evidence matters, not just Russia collusion part 2.
One day you will learn to tell the difference between alternative facts, and actual facts, but I'm not holding me breath.


Stephen - 10/9/2019 at 03:23 AM

Suppose they impeached Trump AFTER (hypothetically) He Was Re Elected
Wouldn’t re election, by Constitutional bylaws/provisos/language etc - take precedence over impeachment, thus rendering null & void the whole proce$$$$$$$$

Altho RM Nixon was re elected by a huge plurality, only to soon be shown the Watergate door - Trump’s detractors will always be around

still seems as tho the most surefire way to remove Pres. Trump from office is not the impeach-&-ouster route - but at the polls next Nov - vox populi baby

Dems should learn from their mistake in that 1972 election - without a strong candidate, shaky & uncertain VP candidates,......

Overall, no telling how long impeachment will take

[Edited on 10/9/2019 by Stephen]


2112 - 10/9/2019 at 05:39 AM

quote:

Good strategy for the President to ignore Pelosi and Schiff and their fishing expedition.


It is a brilliant strategy to ignore everything. Too bad Clinton didn't think about it with all the fishing explorations the Republicans went on. For now on, we can expect all presidents to feel that they are above the law and ignore all subpoenas and call everything executive privilege. I have to give Trump credit, he has mastered the art of the con.


Skydog32103 - 10/9/2019 at 01:08 PM

quote:
Good strategy for the President to ignore Pelosi and Schiff and their fishing expedition. See you in court, where evidence matters, not just Russia collusion part 2.


Yes, that’s always been the idea the whole time. Impeachment, then trial, Senate decides. Sounds like you are with the Democrats on this one - they want the trial and evidence badly just like you.


Skydog32103 - 10/9/2019 at 01:17 PM

I hate to say it, but if the Democrats didn’t expect and have a plan in place for his defiance, then they don’t really deserve to win. It was obvious to me he’d refuse everything and make them go in there with law enforcement to physically remove him. If they aren’t prepared to do this then they messed up.



[Edited on 10/9/2019 by Skydog32103]


cyclone88 - 10/9/2019 at 02:35 PM

quote:
Suppose they impeached Trump AFTER (hypothetically) He Was Re Elected
[Edited on 10/9/2019 by Stephen]

There are legal & political scholars who consider Trump ineligible to be on the 2020 ballot since he attempted & continues to attempt to TAMPER WITH THAT ELECTION. He doesn't have to be impeached to be kept off the ballot - he asked for China's assistance in investigating his perceived political rival on TV & his personal lawyer talks openly about the requests to China and the Ukraine. Parties in each states decide who is allowed on their ballots.

Although GOP Congressmen may not be willing to cross him, the state party chairs may. I don't think it will happen in all 50 states, but it's an interesting idea.


Bhawk - 10/9/2019 at 03:07 PM

quote:
I hate to say it, but if the Democrats didn’t expect and have a plan in place for his defiance, then they don’t really deserve to win. It was obvious to me he’d refuse everything and make them go in there with law enforcement to physically remove him. If they aren’t prepared to do this then they messed up.


All he’s doing now is watching Fox News and rage tweeting. There’s no hurry.


Stephen - 10/9/2019 at 03:55 PM

quote:
quote:
Suppose they impeached Trump AFTER (hypothetically) He Was Re Elected
[Edited on 10/9/2019 by Stephen]

There are legal & political scholars who consider Trump ineligible to be on the 2020 ballot since he attempted & continues to attempt to TAMPER WITH THAT ELECTION. He doesn't have to be impeached to be kept off the ballot - he asked for China's assistance in investigating his perceived political rival on TV & his personal lawyer talks openly about the requests to China and the Ukraine. Parties in each states decide who is allowed on their ballots.

Although GOP Congressmen may not be willing to cross him, the state party chairs may. I don't think it will happen in all 50 states, but it's an interesting idea.



Yes it is - ineligibility sounds like as plausible a process as impeachment
In that scenario, a vacated GOP ticket would have them scrambling for a replacement ticket - this would enhance chances of the Democratic nominee being elected, it’d seem

Any-way, a lot coming down the political pike in the coming year - surprising Trump’s lawyers aren’t advising him of the hole he’s digging for himself


BrerRabbit - 10/9/2019 at 04:24 PM

quote:
. . .he asked for China's assistance in investigating his perceived political rival on TV & his personal lawyer talks openly about the requests to China and the Ukraine.


Treason. He is a ruckin fussian. Anyone ok with this open betrayal is an asset of hostile foreign powers.


cyclone88 - 10/9/2019 at 04:41 PM

quote:
- surprising Trump’s lawyers aren’t advising him of the hole he’s digging for himself

Remember, Guiliani aka SNL's Kate McKinnon is his lawyer - crazier than Trump.


BrerRabbit - 10/9/2019 at 05:38 PM

quote:
. . .If it smells and tastes like dog sh*t, it probably is. Why can't his supporters smell it too?


Because they think they are being spoon fed fudge swirl ice cream that's why!







OriginalGoober - 10/9/2019 at 11:40 PM

This thread is a living document of the lefts obsession over impeachment. No one here needs to see any evidence apparently to reach this conclusion. You cant change 2016. Hillary may try again though.


OriginalGoober - 10/9/2019 at 11:59 PM


New Quinnipiac poll:


After another week with impeachment in the news, registered voters nationwide are still divided on impeaching and removing President Trump from office, with 45 percent saying he should be impeached and removed and 49 percent opposing the idea, according to a Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pea-ack) University national poll released today.


https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3643


Sang - 10/10/2019 at 12:53 AM

quote:
This thread is a living document of the lefts obsession over impeachment. No one here needs to see any evidence apparently to reach this conclusion. You cant change 2016. Hillary may try again though.




There is plenty of evidence, you just refuse to see it. Trump went on TV and doubled down, saying China should also look for info on Biden along with the Ukraine. Maybe you should look up what is impeachable.....like asking a foreign country for information on an opponent to influence a US election, for starters...


Skydog32103 - 10/10/2019 at 01:51 AM

quote:
This thread is a living document of the lefts obsession over impeachment.


You are feeling the pressure and blowing off steam.


BIGV - 10/10/2019 at 04:21 AM

quote:
Hillary may try again though.


May?


MartinD28 - 10/10/2019 at 12:59 PM

quote:

New Quinnipiac poll:


After another week with impeachment in the news, registered voters nationwide are still divided on impeaching and removing President Trump from office, with 45 percent saying he should be impeached and removed and 49 percent opposing the idea, according to a Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pea-ack) University national poll released today.


https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3643


State Run TV's poll shows more in favor of impeachment - quite a statement coming from a FOX poll.

"Fox News Poll: Record support for Trump impeachment"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-record-support-for-trump-imp eachment


Bhawk - 10/10/2019 at 01:50 PM

Rage tweeting continues. Such a good thing for America that he watches so much TV with his phone in hand. So inspirational.


MartinD28 - 10/10/2019 at 02:27 PM

quote:
Rage tweeting continues. Such a good thing for America that he watches so much TV with his phone in hand. So inspirational.


Such a waste of time - his obsession with TV and tweeting when real work of the country needs to be done as opposed to protecting himself and attacking others which are his greatest attributes.

All of this from the self described stable genius.

Below is a recent post. Note the "that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom"

"As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over..."


goldtop - 10/10/2019 at 02:32 PM

anyone at anytime who thought DT was qualified had/has and will always have their head shoved firmly up their azz...and they simply need to own that fact...EOS for me and everything else is just a lame justification for being an ignorant azzhole

How anyone can justify any of this is beyond rational


BIGV - 10/10/2019 at 03:14 PM

quote:
when real work of the country needs to be done


My taxes are low, Gas is affordable as is food, we're not at war......


cyclone88 - 10/10/2019 at 04:57 PM

quote:
"As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over..."

His great and unmatched wisdom - that leads him to protect his investment of Trump Towers Istanbul. I have to say my first thought when I read that line was of the great & powerful Wizard of Oz.

He must get no sleep based on the time stamps of his tweets.


cyclone88 - 10/10/2019 at 05:04 PM

quote:
There is plenty of evidence, you just refuse to see it. Trump went on TV and doubled down, saying China should also look for info on Biden along with the Ukraine. Maybe you should look up what is impeachable.....like asking a foreign country for information on an opponent to influence a US election, for starters...

So, some of Guiliani's Ukraine "influencers" have been arrested while another is at large. The indictment provides ample evidence of funneling money to Congressman-1 and other campaigns through shell companies and just plain lying.


BIGV - 10/10/2019 at 07:12 PM

quote:
Maybe you will one day find something new to post about instead of bigotry towards a entire party because they have different opinions than you do.


I doubt it. And a point of clarification, I would say this is exactly why we vote.."because they have different opinions than you do"...Is this not why people choose one party over another?...

Why are you NOT a Republican?

If I find fault in almost every issue Democrats stand behind, how does this even remotely affect you?

"Bigotry"?...lol, very similar to another poster here who embraced the jargon "Concentration Camps" for the affair at the border....


Bhawk - 10/10/2019 at 07:14 PM

The decisions being made regarding the Kurds may end up being a much bigger problem for Trump.


BIGV - 10/10/2019 at 07:15 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
How do we get the weapons out of the hands of the bad guys?


The current system allows for all disturbed liberal entitled millenials, who have never had a job, who blame mommy, daddy, and Trump for all of their problems, as well as any other crazy disturbed individual, to buy multiple AR-15s and unlimited ammunition....simply because they don't have a criminal record. You mock a solution to this problem because it won't solve the black market sub-issue....maybe you have no room to be laughing at anyone.


This has been my point all along; sane, Law abiding individuals are not the ones committing these heinous acts. It is a difficult issue with no easy solution; taking guns away from people who do not abuse the Law is not the way to go. Come up with a means to keep these weapons out of the hands of the mentally disturbed and we'll be in agreement.



I don't see any legislation being drafted that the WH might accept especially with phase two of the Coup underway. Americans wanted common sense legislation, its dead now. Along with any help on prescription drug prices. Such is the state of politics in our country now.


quote:
"Americans wanted common sense legislation, its dead now."


Disagree, people who hate guns want this. Americans believe in the Constitution.


Bhawk - 10/10/2019 at 07:18 PM

The House has passed over 400 bills since the midterms that McConnell hasn't brought to the floor of the Senate. No one's interested in "getting anything done," regardless of issue.


Bhawk - 10/10/2019 at 07:19 PM

quote:
anyone at anytime who thought DT was qualified had/has and will always have their head shoved firmly up their azz...and they simply need to own that fact...EOS for me and everything else is just a lame justification for being an ignorant azzhole

How anyone can justify any of this is beyond rational


Easy. Hillary isn't President and no matter what Trump does, legal or illegal, they'll always hate liberals more. There you go.


BIGV - 10/10/2019 at 07:33 PM

quote:
quote:
I don't understand how anyone can support Trump. Period.


quote:
And the other half of the Country does not understand how anyone can Vote in line with Democratic ideals and values. Period.


He spoke for himself by using the word "I". Why would you say, "and the other half of the country" in response?


Simply responding to the poster who used "I" when referencing "Anyone" which in this case is roughly "half the Country"....


MartinD28 - 10/10/2019 at 09:01 PM

quote:
The decisions being made regarding the Kurds may end up being a much bigger problem for Trump.


Doubtful. The GOP Senators may speak out initially against Trump for doing another favor for Putin, but in the end good little boys will fall in line, or they will feel the wrath of the tweet.


tcatanesi - 10/10/2019 at 09:21 PM

Gets more entertaining by the minute.

"Rick Perry subpoenaed."

"GOP congressman 'heartbroken' over President's Syria moves and says he no longer supports Trump."

"Giuliani had lunch with 2 indicted associates at Trump hotel just before their arrest."

The noose is tightening...


2112 - 10/10/2019 at 09:54 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
How do we get the weapons out of the hands of the bad guys?


The current system allows for all disturbed liberal entitled millenials, who have never had a job, who blame mommy, daddy, and Trump for all of their problems, as well as any other crazy disturbed individual, to buy multiple AR-15s and unlimited ammunition....simply because they don't have a criminal record. You mock a solution to this problem because it won't solve the black market sub-issue....maybe you have no room to be laughing at anyone.


This has been my point all along; sane, Law abiding individuals are not the ones committing these heinous acts. It is a difficult issue with no easy solution; taking guns away from people who do not abuse the Law is not the way to go. Come up with a means to keep these weapons out of the hands of the mentally disturbed and we'll be in agreement.



I don't see any legislation being drafted that the WH might accept especially with phase two of the Coup underway. Americans wanted common sense legislation, its dead now. Along with any help on prescription drug prices. Such is the state of politics in our country now.


quote:
"Americans wanted common sense legislation, its dead now."


Disagree, people who hate guns want this. Americans believe in the Constitution.


For those Americans who believe in the Constitution, does that include the system of checks and balances outlined in the constitution, or only the Second Amendment part?


goldtop - 10/10/2019 at 10:35 PM

quote:
quote:
anyone at anytime who thought DT was qualified had/has and will always have their head shoved firmly up their azz...and they simply need to own that fact...EOS for me and everything else is just a lame justification for being an ignorant azzhole

How anyone can justify any of this is beyond rational


Easy. Hillary isn't President and no matter what Trump does, legal or illegal, they'll always hate liberals more. There you go.


LOL...Yes I know but there were people on the right that were qualified and they were all tossed aside for the American buffoon. A man who's been a buffoon for decades and they disregarded those who would serve with dignity for a buffoon a conman, a carnival barker, a criminal.

Yeah for me there's no justification for that vote or the continued support


Skydog32103 - 10/11/2019 at 02:26 AM

Do Trump supporters really want the next Democrat president to do whatever they want and refuse Republican demands? Have they thought this through, or is the high just too good to give up?


Skydog32103 - 10/11/2019 at 02:35 AM

quote:
I doubt it. And a point of clarification, I would say this is exactly why we vote.."because they have different opinions than you do"...Is this not why people choose one party over another?...

Why are you NOT a Republican?

If I find fault in almost every issue Democrats stand behind, how does this even remotely affect you?


Who cares.

quote:
"Bigotry"?...lol, very similar to another poster here who embraced the jargon "Concentration Camps" for the affair at the border....


Do you realize you are proudly proclaiming to be "very similar" to a liberal who compared the affair at the border to concentration camps?


JimSheridan - 10/11/2019 at 03:02 AM



quote:
"Americans wanted common sense legislation, its dead now."


Disagree, people who hate guns want this. Americans believe in the Constitution.

_________________________________________________________

Americans who believe in the Constitution believe in its Emoluments Clause, which Trump has violated.

The Constitution also forbids presidents from making deals with foreign powers for personal gain, which the attempt to gain dirt on Biden clearly is.

THIS WEEK: Attorney Barr met with Rupert Murdoch in secret....Trump betrayed the Kurds to the Turks, with whom he has personal business deals (TRUMP'S WORDS)....Giuliani's henchmen (Trump donors) just got arrested....military leaders are speaking out against Trump....

Once the floodgates really open, it will not surprise anyone who can read that the offenses committed by Trump will stack from here to the moon. His refusal to show his tax returns is an obvious aberration. Anyone who has lived in the Tri-State area has known that his business abuses are plentiful, and the pattern did not step with his presidency. If you're looking for a champion of the Constitution, Trump ain't it.

________________________________________________________________________--

President Trump said that he has a “conflict of interest” in Turkey because of a development there in a 2015 interview.

The interview was resurfaced by Mother Jones after Trump faced criticism for congratulating Turkey’s president Tayyip Erdogan on winning a referendum that increases his power.

“I have a little conflict of interest ’cause I have a major, major building in Istanbul,” Trump said on Breitbart News Daily. “It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers—two towers, instead of one, not the usual one, it’s two.”

The host of the news show was Breitbart executive Steve Bannon, who then served as an advisor to Trump in the White House.


BrerRabbit - 10/11/2019 at 03:43 AM

quote:
. . .another poster here who embraced the jargon "Concentration Camps" for the affair at the border....


No, I didn't "compare" them or say they were "similar", I referred to them as actual concentration camps, and posted clear references from the Holocaust Memorial Museum that showed that your "affair at the border" fits their criteria for the term "concentration camp." The Holocaust Memorial Museum includes the Japanese Internment camps as concentration camps as well. By the way, our Indian reservation system was an inspiration for Hitler's corralling entire populations. The concentration camp concept is an American invention.

Just posting my own take, not attacking yours, just daring to disagree, even though it seems to bother folks. You are more comfortable with your warmfuzzy "affair at the border" making the crisis sound like a Harlequin Romance, thats cool, whatever it takes for you to process.


[Edited on 10/11/2019 by BrerRabbit]


BIGV - 10/11/2019 at 03:32 PM

quote:
quote:
. . .another poster here who embraced the jargon "Concentration Camps" for the affair at the border....


No, I didn't "compare" them or say they were "similar",


I used the phrase "embrace" ....

quote:
You are more comfortable with your warmfuzzy "affair at the border" making the crisis sound like a Harlequin Romance, thats cool, whatever it takes for you to process.


I believe it to be more "humane" than this reference of yours to the thought of how we are handling "The affair at the border"...

quote:
Just wait, mark my words, this is heading towards concentration camps. Germans who were saying that death camps existed or might exist during WW2 were probably greeted with similar shock.


BrerRabbit - 10/11/2019 at 04:34 PM

quote:
Just wait, mark my words, this is heading towards concentration camps. Germans who were saying that death camps existed or might exist during WW2 were probably greeted with similar shock.


My statement and I stand by it. Thanks for digging that up and running it again. I realize that you find euphemisms for "the affair at the border" more palatable.


goldtop - 10/11/2019 at 06:16 PM

quote:
quote:
Just wait, mark my words, this is heading towards concentration camps. Germans who were saying that death camps existed or might exist during WW2 were probably greeted with similar shock.


My statement and I stand by it. Thanks for digging that up and running it again. I realize that you find euphemisms for "the affair at the border" more palatable.




Have they given you a better label. What do you call places that you cage children, separate them from their family. Tell them to drink toilet water. Deny medicine and basic needs like soap, toothbrushes, tooth paste and clean water. I think concentration camps is an appropriate label when the demographic is concentrated on a certain group of people. Internment camp fits the description pretty well. I think Fox said their summer camps...How many children have died?? 8, 10..??? do we even really know. This isn't about right or left this is basic humanity and respect for people who already lived under harsh conditions and want better and people can justify this?? I hope he ends up at the Hague for world human rights crimes


BrerRabbit - 10/11/2019 at 08:07 PM

Yeah for sure, me I just call a spade a spade. Saves a lot of beating around the bush. No point trying to make things sound better than they are.

[Edited on 10/12/2019 by BrerRabbit]


BIGV - 10/12/2019 at 02:55 AM

quote:
What do you call places that you cage children, separate them from their family.


If you break the law in this country and are arrested, are you separated from your children?...Answer? "Don't break the Law" and a resounding NO, they are NOT all "asylum seekers" not when you ignore a legal point of entry and cross ILLEGALLY.

quote:
Tell them to drink toilet water. Deny medicine and basic needs like soap, toothbrushes, tooth paste and clean water.


Laughable. This is straight out of Congresswoman AOC/BOR's playbook, proved False by Agents on the scene at the time of her ridiculous assertion.


BIGV - 10/12/2019 at 02:56 AM

quote:
quote:
Just wait, mark my words, this is heading towards concentration camps. Germans who were saying that death camps existed or might exist during WW2 were probably greeted with similar shock.


My statement and I stand by it. Thanks for digging that up and running it again. I realize that you find euphemisms for "the affair at the border" more palatable


I do and I repeat, you ought to be ashamed, making any type of comparison to Germany during WWII...


BrerRabbit - 10/12/2019 at 05:37 AM

quote:
I do and I repeat, you ought to be ashamed, making any type of comparison to Germany during WWII...


Yawn . . .


Chain - 10/12/2019 at 12:31 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Just wait, mark my words, this is heading towards concentration camps. Germans who were saying that death camps existed or might exist during WW2 were probably greeted with similar shock.


My statement and I stand by it. Thanks for digging that up and running it again. I realize that you find euphemisms for "the affair at the border" more palatable


I do and I repeat, you ought to be ashamed, making any type of comparison to Germany during WWII...


Speaking of Germany and WWII, is anyone besides Donald Trump still pissed the Kurds didn't participate with the rest of the Allies in the Normandy invasion?

All these years later I never even knew they were asked to assist in the liberation of Europe from the grasps of the Nazi's. Thanks for the history lesson, Donnie! And to think most American's think he's a moron...Maybe he truly is a stable genius as only a genius could pull this one completely out if his @ss when at a loss for words or rationale or understanding of basic history...


Bhawk - 10/12/2019 at 01:43 PM

quote:
quote:
The decisions being made regarding the Kurds may end up being a much bigger problem for Trump.


Doubtful. The GOP Senators may speak out initially against Trump for doing another favor for Putin, but in the end good little boys will fall in line, or they will feel the wrath of the tweet.


Turkey almost hit US troops with artillery yesterday. This situation is very, very real.

Conservatives rightly criticized Obama on Syria. Now, of course, they’re non-principled hypocritical cowards because they are afraid of a blowhard and his phone, but such is life.


MartinD28 - 10/12/2019 at 01:46 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
The decisions being made regarding the Kurds may end up being a much bigger problem for Trump.


Doubtful. The GOP Senators may speak out initially against Trump for doing another favor for Putin, but in the end good little boys will fall in line, or they will feel the wrath of the tweet.


Turkey almost hit US troops with artillery yesterday. This situation is very, very real.

Conservatives rightly criticized Obama on Syria. Now, of course, they’re non-principled hypocritical cowards because they are afraid of a blowhard and his phone, but such is life.


Trump is "thinking" about economic sanctions for Turkey. I guess he'll show them how serious he is. In the meantime, with the recent invasion how many more will die due to Trump's moronic decision?


Bhawk - 10/12/2019 at 01:55 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
The decisions being made regarding the Kurds may end up being a much bigger problem for Trump.


Doubtful. The GOP Senators may speak out initially against Trump for doing another favor for Putin, but in the end good little boys will fall in line, or they will feel the wrath of the tweet.


Turkey almost hit US troops with artillery yesterday. This situation is very, very real.

Conservatives rightly criticized Obama on Syria. Now, of course, they’re non-principled hypocritical cowards because they are afraid of a blowhard and his phone, but such is life.


Trump is "thinking" about economic sanctions for Turkey. I guess he'll show them how serious he is. In the meantime, with the recent invasion how many more will die due to Trump's moronic decision?


The guy admires authoritarians and wants to be in their circle. Imagine what the neocon wing of the GOP would be doing if any Democrat President had literally abandoned an ally on the battlefield...they’d be screaming for...impeachment.


Bhawk - 10/12/2019 at 02:43 PM

2,000 US troops headed to Saudi Arabia to protect the royal family there, but Trump wants to stop the “endless wars.” Then he goes to the mic and says that it’s ok, the Saudis are gonna pay us for it.

Conservatives never say a word, though, because if you make an observation beyond what color tie Trump is wearing, you’re just mad Hillary lost.

Such cowardice easily embraced, morals and ethics easily abandoned by those who believe they are better people than those they so hate.


Chain - 10/12/2019 at 04:46 PM

quote:
2,000 US troops headed to Saudi Arabia to protect the royal family there, but Trump wants to stop the “endless wars.” Then he goes to the mic and says that it’s ok, the Saudis are gonna pay us for it.

Conservatives never say a word, though, because if you make an observation beyond what color tie Trump is wearing, you’re just mad Hillary lost.

Such cowardice easily embraced, morals and ethics easily abandoned by those who believe they are better people than those they so hate.


Good point on the Saudi business, Bhawk.....Notice how quickly Trump's antics shifted that story out of the news cycle. The media should redirect back to this shift in troop strength whenever Trump starts babbling about "The US should never have entered the Middle East."


BrerRabbit - 10/12/2019 at 05:17 PM

quote:
. . . it’s ok, the Saudis are gonna pay us for it.


So the US military is now mercenary?


Chain - 10/12/2019 at 09:48 PM

quote:
quote:
. . . it’s ok, the Saudis are gonna pay us for it.


So the US military is now mercenary?


I wonder what sort of fee a Trillion dollar a year military demands these days? I'm guessing the deed to a 10 acre parcel in downtown Ryadh in the name of Trump, Inc.. Or maybe the deed and guaranteed permitting and the dirt cheap labor the Saudi Royal Family usually imports from around the Middle East to do the actual building of things like large gaudy hotels.....That's my guess.


gina - 10/13/2019 at 08:38 PM

The mainstream news is not reporting the entire truth. Not their fault, they don't know.

In Jis al Shogur, in West Idlib, 200 drones were dispatched to the tv Headquarters of the Turkistani party in al Janoudieh in Jis-al-Shogur to reinforce positions under their control in NW Hama, NE Lattakia. The Turkistani party sent Chinese militants to Sahl-al-Ghab in NW Hama and Kabani in NE Lattakia to stop Syrian advances there. 13,000 foreign fighters are in Sahl-al-Ghab and Jisr-al-Shogur and Lattakia to guard areas by the Turkistani party. (which is based in Ankara).

The problem is the Syrian Army (those so called freedom fighters we were supporting, remember them?) found US and NATO based weapons and missiles in South Idlib in an underground military network in Al-Latameneh, a main base for deploying 5,000 foreign (Isil) fighters. The Syrian Army also found a workshop to manufacture drones and found drones equipped with bombs t oattack the Syrian Army Military Units.

So what is really going on over there?

Al Akhbar reported (10-6-19) that the US wants chaos in Iraq, 3 months ago Washington organized protest rallies in Iraq under the cover of popular demands of the people not being met (poverty and unemployment were the stated protest reasons). Then the US wanted to lead this disenfranchised group to a popular Military Commander to lead the people to a 'salvation' government so the US can strenghthen it's hegemony over Iraq.

Iraqi Prime Minister Adil Abdul Mahdi, implemented a counter plan controlling the security and military blocks controlling the field situation in 18 provinces to calm people down and meet their needs and demands encouraging fearful protesters to work within the framework of current law.

Qais Khazali, Leader Asaib Ahl-al-Haq Resistance Movemenbt said mroe than a month ago on 8/26 some political factions in Iraq joined a joint endeavor with foreign powers aimed at igniting demonstrations. The problem is Trump's Deal of the Century making the current administration abide by their demands. Demonstrations were scheduled to happen in October and have. Al Akhbar says Saudi Arabia handed the plan to Trump to stir unrest in Tehran, Baghdad and Beirut. The tactic is to stimulate the public opinion thru the media to instigate street protests to weaken the government. There is no political leadership in Iraq. Sr. Iraqi cleric Sayed Moqtadr al Sadr and Ammar al Hakim have sought to take the lead and were pushed back by protesters.

Sr. Iraqi Popular Forces Commander Hashd al Shaabi warned the US against military wargames at the border of Syria because it will create a safe passageway for Isil' sinfiltration into Iraq. Hadi al Khorasani revealed they want Isil to infiltrate into the desert of Al-Anbar which is free from security forces. Then when they get ready they can approach Baghdad from the desert for a coup. The Iraqi Governor knows what is going on and stepped down. Olay Fallah al Jazairi stepped down. Coverage was on Al-Sumaria TV. He knows the protests are far beyond the will of the people.

If anyone believes that Mubarak was ousted because 2 million Egyptians just came together on Facebook and decided to to to Tahrir Square, they really do not understand what is going on here, globally.


P.S. All the clandestine stuff, I doubt Trump is aware of it. The rogue military/intelligence folks do their thing and just tell them what they want to. And they are keeping him busy with the impeachment crappola.

[Edited on 10/13/2019 by gina]


BrerRabbit - 10/13/2019 at 08:49 PM

If anyone needs a good My Pillow workout it's you.


Chain - 10/13/2019 at 08:54 PM

Not a surprisingly, a number of ISIS prisoners escaped today. How long before they reach Europe?


BrerRabbit - 10/13/2019 at 09:20 PM

Here ya go Gina you can borrow mine - works wonders for stress anxiety paranoid schizophrenia


MartinD28 - 10/13/2019 at 10:10 PM

quote:
Not a surprisingly, a number of ISIS prisoners escaped today. How long before they reach Europe?


Remember when Ukraine Don said ISIS was defeated. Yet former Never Trumper turned Trump Ball Massager, Lindsey Graham states the following:

Graham Says Trump’s ‘Biggest Lie’ Is of Islamic State’s Defeat

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-07/trump-says-of-syria-it-s -time-u-s-gets-out-of-endless-wars


dutchoneill - 10/13/2019 at 11:28 PM

Impeachment?

Its a campaign strategy, nothing more.

And with the first IG/Fisa report dropping this Friday that will have a lot of folks running for cover.


Skydog32103 - 10/14/2019 at 03:27 PM

quote:
by those who believe they are better people than those they so hate.


For some of his supporters, yes, I'd agree. But for many others, it's driven by a deep-seeded fear of progression.

quote:
...Such cowardice easily embraced, morals and ethics easily abandoned

2,000 US troops headed to Saudi Arabia to protect the royal family there, but Trump wants to stop the “endless wars.” Then he goes to the mic and says that it’s ok, the Saudis are gonna pay us for it.

Conservatives never say a word, though, because if you make an observation beyond what color tie Trump is wearing, you’re just mad Hillary lost.


These sad results show us just how palpable those fears really are.


BIGV - 10/14/2019 at 11:20 PM

quote:
But for many others, it's driven by a deep-seeded fear of progression.


Haha, I love this "theory"..."progress" means the call for impeachment is the answer for everything



quote:
Conservatives never say a word, though, because if you make an observation beyond what color tie Trump is wearing, you’re just mad Hillary lost.


"you’re just mad Hillary lost"

Are you not?


Skydog32103 - 10/15/2019 at 02:33 AM

quote:
Haha, I love this "theory"..."progress" means the call for impeachment is the answer for everything


Laughing in response to a serious post, and if you are criticized for it, let me guess.....you are the victim?


Stephen - 10/15/2019 at 04:26 AM

If no one has stepped forward by early next year, Hillary’s supporters will encourage her to run
However she’s 72 years old, an age too advanced to even campaign vigorously for, much less handle the workload of the presidency
Presidents Reagan & Trump began their 1st terms at 70 yrs old - that IMO should be a cutoff point of sorts IMO, or even 65
LBJ was 61 when he left office, but could easily have passed for 75-80

But yes the impeachment machinery continues to warm up/fine tune in preparation for whenever a panel convenes & the first subpoenas go out etc - OMGosh it’ll be so toxic next year - an impeachment inquiry during a presidential election - we’ll all be victims

[Edited on 10/15/2019 by Stephen]


BIGV - 10/15/2019 at 04:45 AM

quote:
quote:
Haha, I love this "theory"..."progress" means the call for impeachment is the answer for everything


Laughing in response to a serious post, and if you are criticized for it, let me guess.....you are the victim?




Haha...Boy.... I'll give you this, you and I sure have a different view on what it means to be a "victim"..


Skydog32103 - 10/15/2019 at 11:17 AM

quote:
Haha...Boy.... I'll give you this, you and I sure have a different view on what it means to be a "victim"..


Probably, and I'm fine with that.


goldtop - 10/15/2019 at 07:07 PM

I'll ask again. Did anyone really not see this coming?

John Bolton called Rudy a "hand grenade" He also said he wanted nothing to do with the "drug deal. His synopsis of the entire corrupt situation going on with Ukraine. The ambassadors are confirming the whistle blowers account. People are coming forward.

Did anyone not see this all coming? That DT was self impeachable from moment 1.


goldtop - 10/17/2019 at 03:23 AM

Can you imagine the American buffoon actually released this photo of him being owned by Nancy Pelosi



Now off to bed with you and no cake tonight little boy


BrerRabbit - 10/17/2019 at 03:27 AM

quote:
Did anyone really not see this coming?


. . . And that, children, is how they came to be known as "Notsees".


goldtop - 10/17/2019 at 03:28 AM

quote:
Can you imagine the American buffoon actually released this photo of him being owned by Nancy Pelosi



Now off to bed with you and no cake tonight little boy




All roads lead to Putin


goldtop - 10/17/2019 at 03:30 AM

quote:
quote:
Did anyone really not see this coming?


. . . And that, children, is how they came to be known as "Notsees".


Sad isn't it...how so many people can be this gullible


BrerRabbit - 10/17/2019 at 03:31 AM

It is way worse than gullible - it is willful ignorance.


goldtop - 10/17/2019 at 03:39 AM

quote:
It is way worse than gullible - it is willful ignorance.


yes...so true


Skydog32103 - 10/17/2019 at 02:13 PM

quote:
It is way worse than gullible - it is willful ignorance.


I consider many of them to be victims of fraud. And while I do agree it's best to learn how to spot and avoid scams, I don't think it's their fault one bit if these people trusted that he'd respect the office of the Presidency to fulfill his promises to them. Instead he's intentionally creating enemies for his own personal need for attention, making it impossible to get anything done. I'd be really pissed if I were them.

For his supporters who see the risk and issues, but rally behind him anyways, I imagine they are punching back, because they felt under attack during the Obama administration. Ironically, their biggest complaint about Obama was that he was too extreme to be productive in Washington.....so what was their response? "Lets elect an extreme candidate".


BrerRabbit - 10/17/2019 at 02:48 PM

trump has no forehead


cyclone88 - 10/17/2019 at 02:53 PM

quote:
I consider many of them to be victims of fraud. And while I do agree it's best to learn how to spot and avoid scams, I don't think it's their fault one bit if these people trusted that he'd respect the office of the Presidency to fulfill his promises to them. Instead he's intentionally creating enemies for his own personal need for attention, making it impossible to get anything done. I'd be really pissed if I were them.

They're not victims in any sense of the word. Trump showed himself to be EXACTLY who he is before & during the campaign - lying, racist, corrupt, grandiose, narcissist, insulting, greedy, & self-dealing to name a few. Build a wall at Mexico's expense to keep out criminals & rapists we know all Mexicans to be out. That's a campaign promise? From the man who has supporters & close friends who actually ARE criminals, rapists & child traffickers? His own former business associates said the man knew zip about government & couldn't respect boundaries he didn't know existed. Remember his behavior during debates - disrespectful, interrupting, insulting, ranting, & spewing hatred for his opponents? EXACTLY how he behaves in office. He just changed the names - Speaker Pelosi instead of Jeb Bush.

A reasonable person WOULD expect even the most ignorant (and I mean that in the sense of not knowing) Trump voter to be pissed that ANYONE in that office would behave so disrespectfully, wantonly & dangerously.

His active disciples are always going to support him.


BIGV - 10/17/2019 at 03:30 PM

quote:
His active disciples are always going to support him.


Which totals 1.9% "Victims of fraud" less than those who supported other corrupt candidate.


BrerRabbit - 10/17/2019 at 04:07 PM

It is clear by now that Trump is a lemon. Bummer. Should have looked under the hood before driving it off the lot.

You elected an actual raging moron to wreck America.

Buggered by a conman.

Don't blame me I didn't vote for this sh!t.


BrerRabbit - 10/19/2019 at 02:18 AM


Bhawk - 10/19/2019 at 04:35 PM

quote:
It is clear by now that Trump is a lemon. Bummer. Should have looked under the hood before driving it off the lot.

You elected an actual raging moron to wreck America.

Buggered by a conman.

Don't blame me I didn't vote for this sh!t.


Yeah, but...everyone knew who this guy was. Been a pop culture icon since the 80s. The (failed) business dealings, the long history of never paying his bills, the reality TV, all the women, hell, killing off the USFL was a dumbass move when you look back. He’s the same person he’s always been.

People hated Hillary and hate liberals more than anything Trump is or represents. That’s it.

America isn’t wrecked. Truth is wrecked. Right and wrong is wrecked. Nothing matters anymore. Anything can be spun. Anything can be justified. We are a solid 10 years into The Post-Truth Era.

Every single time anyone says “they just can’t handle the fact that Hillary lost” or “they are just trying to reverse the results of the 2016 election,” what is actually being said is...

“Donald Trump can do nothing wrong and is not accountable for anything, no matter what he says or does, and I’ll never stop supporting him. I don’t care, because it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing he can do that is worse than a liberal being President.”

Personally, politics aside, I think he’s an absolutely horrid human being who isn’t interested in being a Republican or a Conservative, it’s just a means for him to serve what he thinks is best for him.

“Well, you know, Bhawk, if you bash him or his base too much, that’s how you get more Trump.”

I don’t care. I’m not voting for him, and if he wins again, so be it. Doesn’t mean I or anyone else has to support it.


PhotoRon286 - 10/19/2019 at 05:20 PM

quote:



Perfect.


BrerRabbit - 10/19/2019 at 05:37 PM

Satisfying image isn't it


goldtop - 10/19/2019 at 09:07 PM

quote:
quote:
It is clear by now that Trump is a lemon. Bummer. Should have looked under the hood before driving it off the lot.

You elected an actual raging moron to wreck America.

Buggered by a conman.

Don't blame me I didn't vote for this sh!t.


Yeah, but...everyone knew who this guy was. Been a pop culture icon since the 80s. The (failed) business dealings, the long history of never paying his bills, the reality TV, all the women, hell, killing off the USFL was a dumbass move when you look back. He’s the same person he’s always been.

People hated Hillary and hate liberals more than anything Trump is or represents. That’s it.

America isn’t wrecked. Truth is wrecked. Right and wrong is wrecked. Nothing matters anymore. Anything can be spun. Anything can be justified. We are a solid 10 years into The Post-Truth Era.

Every single time anyone says “they just can’t handle the fact that Hillary lost” or “they are just trying to reverse the results of the 2016 election,” what is actually being said is...

“Donald Trump can do nothing wrong and is not accountable for anything, no matter what he says or does, and I’ll never stop supporting him. I don’t care, because it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing he can do that is worse than a liberal being President.”

Personally, politics aside, I think he’s an absolutely horrid human being who isn’t interested in being a Republican or a Conservative, it’s just a means for him to serve what he thinks is best for him.

“Well, you know, Bhawk, if you bash him or his base too much, that’s how you get more Trump.”

I don’t care. I’m not voting for him, and if he wins again, so be it. Doesn’t mean I or anyone else has to support it.




There were qualified people on the right that were just completely disregarded some now coming out and saying impeachment is required. Yesterday John Kasich came out in full support of removing him from office. If the party of values would have put John Kasich up as the nominee I would have voted for him over HC.

But again justifications for lies, corruption, and human rights crimes are what they are trying to make the norm. Won't work with me. They didn't grow up with parents where a lie is just that and there is no justification for it. Or his vile behavior none of it is about policy because he has none. When you sell snake oil you get snake oil


MartinD28 - 10/19/2019 at 11:08 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
It is clear by now that Trump is a lemon. Bummer. Should have looked under the hood before driving it off the lot.

You elected an actual raging moron to wreck America.

Buggered by a conman.

Don't blame me I didn't vote for this sh!t.


Yeah, but...everyone knew who this guy was. Been a pop culture icon since the 80s. The (failed) business dealings, the long history of never paying his bills, the reality TV, all the women, hell, killing off the USFL was a dumbass move when you look back. He’s the same person he’s always been.

People hated Hillary and hate liberals more than anything Trump is or represents. That’s it.

America isn’t wrecked. Truth is wrecked. Right and wrong is wrecked. Nothing matters anymore. Anything can be spun. Anything can be justified. We are a solid 10 years into The Post-Truth Era.

Every single time anyone says “they just can’t handle the fact that Hillary lost” or “they are just trying to reverse the results of the 2016 election,” what is actually being said is...

“Donald Trump can do nothing wrong and is not accountable for anything, no matter what he says or does, and I’ll never stop supporting him. I don’t care, because it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing he can do that is worse than a liberal being President.”

Personally, politics aside, I think he’s an absolutely horrid human being who isn’t interested in being a Republican or a Conservative, it’s just a means for him to serve what he thinks is best for him.

“Well, you know, Bhawk, if you bash him or his base too much, that’s how you get more Trump.”

I don’t care. I’m not voting for him, and if he wins again, so be it. Doesn’t mean I or anyone else has to support it.




There were qualified people on the right that were just completely disregarded some now coming out and saying impeachment is required. Yesterday John Kasich came out in full support of removing him from office. If the party of values would have put John Kasich up as the nominee I would have voted for him over HC.

But again justifications for lies, corruption, and human rights crimes are what they are trying to make the norm. Won't work with me. They didn't grow up with parents where a lie is just that and there is no justification for it. Or his vile behavior none of it is about policy because he has none. When you sell snake oil you get snake oil



Haven't seen a tweet yet, but awaiting the "Great One" to tweet that Kasich is weak and overrated or the worst governor in the country.


Skydog32103 - 10/20/2019 at 04:35 AM

quote:
Every single time anyone says “they just can’t handle the fact that Hillary lost” or “they are just trying to reverse the results of the 2016 election,” what is actually being said is...

“Donald Trump can do nothing wrong and is not accountable for anything, no matter what he says or does, and I’ll never stop supporting him. I don’t care, because it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing he can do that is worse than a liberal being President.”


At the end of the day, we should feel fortunate that we're not in their position. Imagine the hell that is your life, if you are that afraid and affected by a different political affiliation. We're sophisticated enough to understand how to navigate life, but they are not.


goldtop - 10/20/2019 at 04:30 PM

I love this picture of Nancy Pelosi sending DT to bed without his cake

Notice the men sitting next to DT looking down in embarrassment as DT cries like the tiny little boychild he is


Chain - 10/20/2019 at 05:46 PM

quote:
I love this picture of Nancy Pelosi sending DT to bed without his cake

Notice the men sitting next to DT looking down in embarrassment as DT cries like the tiny little boychild he is




Yep....It's written all over their and Little Donnie Caligula's face. I wasn't in favor of Nancy Pelosi earning the House Leadership position when the Dem's won back the House nearly two years ago but I will admit she's owned Trump since.

For all his bluster and tough talk about what a stable genius he is, when it comes to Nancy Pelosi he's outmaneuvered and outclassed every time she's in the room with him. She's not intimidated by him as her intellect and understanding of both the government and how Washington works and even how to use the media to her ends trumps Trump's obvious ignorance, stupidity, and uneasiness when she faces off with him.

He's so dependent on his con game that when anyone checks him on it and makes clear they know he's full of sh*t and it won't work that he's sort of left flailing in the wind. Whenever in a room with someone of superior intellect who lets him know he's a dumbf@ck he becomes a paper tiger.

I think part of her craftiness is knowing his die hard supporters will believe and support anything the American Caligula will say and do no matter what she or others do. So instead she plays to the Dems. and more importantly the Independents who will ultimately decide Trump's fate.

[Edited on 10/20/2019 by Chain]


BrerRabbit - 10/20/2019 at 08:42 PM

quote:
Whenever in a room with someone of superior intellect . . .


Meaning any room with another person in it, or even the monkey house at the zoo. The only room he could be in and be intellectually superior to others would be a chicken coop.


goldtop - 10/20/2019 at 10:14 PM

quote:
quote:
I love this picture of Nancy Pelosi sending DT to bed without his cake

Notice the men sitting next to DT looking down in embarrassment as DT cries like the tiny little boychild he is




Yep....It's written all over their and Little Donnie Caligula's face. I wasn't in favor of Nancy Pelosi earning the House Leadership position when the Dem's won back the House nearly two years ago but I will admit she's owned Trump since.

For all his bluster and tough talk about what a stable genius he is, when it comes to Nancy Pelosi he's outmaneuvered and outclassed every time she's in the room with him. She's not intimidated by him as her intellect and understanding of both the government and how Washington works and even how to use the media to her ends trumps Trump's obvious ignorance, stupidity, and uneasiness when she faces off with him.

He's so dependent on his con game that when anyone checks him on it and makes clear they know he's full of sh*t and it won't work that he's sort of left flailing in the wind. Whenever in a room with someone of superior intellect who lets him know he's a dumbf@ck he becomes a paper tiger.

I think part of her craftiness is knowing his die hard supporters will believe and support anything the American Caligula will say and do no matter what she or others do. So instead she plays to the Dems. and more importantly the Independents who will ultimately decide Trump's fate.

[Edited on 10/20/2019 by Chain]


The best part is knowing what she told him at that moment with all those men shamed by the truth. "All paths with you lead to Putin"

Look at them, not one of them saying a word to her looking down in shame and embarrassment of the traitor prez and childish meltdown. I wonder what would happen if we threw water on him ...so what do you think they believe...

Yeah...all paths do lead to Putin...that's what they know


dutchoneill - 10/20/2019 at 10:40 PM

Enjoy the distractions, while the real work continues to be done. That sham of a walkout was just that a sham. Why did the other Dems stay. More FaceTime for the Speaker and the Minority Senator. Gotta keep up appearances.

The IG report has been delayed but it will drop. Then the crying and gnashing of teeth will start.
Asagnge is due out in February assuming he doesn't commit suicide. I suspect he has some stories to tell.
With BCs failing health and Hillarys attack of Tulsi, its just a matter of time til the truths about that Crime Family starts to surface. Remember when the Vatican financial office was raided recently?

Scot away, but pay attention, pain will be dished out eventually.


Chain - 10/20/2019 at 11:47 PM

quote:
Enjoy the distractions, while the real work continues to be done. That sham of a walkout was just that a sham. Why did the other Dems stay. More FaceTime for the Speaker and the Minority Senator. Gotta keep up appearances.

The IG report has been delayed but it will drop. Then the crying and gnashing of teeth will start.
Asagnge is due out in February assuming he doesn't commit suicide. I suspect he has some stories to tell.
With BCs failing health and Hillarys attack of Tulsi, its just a matter of time til the truths about that Crime Family starts to surface. Remember when the Vatican financial office was raided recently?

Scot away, but pay attention, pain will be dished out eventually.


Oh my, so cryptic...Just in time for Halloween...


BrerRabbit - 10/20/2019 at 11:49 PM

Whatever makes your day more exciting. The sad, stale, and boring truth is there is no drama here other than the country regurgitating a halfwit president.


PhotoRon286 - 10/21/2019 at 02:48 AM

quote:
Enjoy the distractions, while the real work continues to be done. That sham of a walkout was just that a sham. Why did the other Dems stay. More FaceTime for the Speaker and the Minority Senator. Gotta keep up appearances.

The IG report has been delayed but it will drop. Then the crying and gnashing of teeth will start.
Asagnge is due out in February assuming he doesn't commit suicide. I suspect he has some stories to tell.
With BCs failing health and Hillarys attack of Tulsi, its just a matter of time til the truths about that Crime Family starts to surface. Remember when the Vatican financial office was raided recently?

Scot away, but pay attention, pain will be dished out eventually.


This post will not hold up well in time.

It will be interesting to see wott Ed will say about it then.


BIGV - 10/21/2019 at 03:05 PM

quote:
Sad isn't it...how so many people can be this gullible


LOL, What is "sad" is this is all the left has and continues to focus on. In the meantime, the debates forge on providing entertainment in a fashion not intended, pure, comedy gold.

quote:
Yesterday John Kasich came out in full support of removing him from office


Just curious...."How will this happen"?


Skydog32103 - 10/21/2019 at 07:42 PM

quote:
LOL, What is "sad" is this is all the left has and continues to focus on.


I propose a new rule in the forum: If you have the urge to type “LOL” in response to someone’s serious post, then you cannot run to Rowland when name-called.


BrerRabbit - 10/21/2019 at 08:55 PM

quote:
. . .in the meantime, the debates forge on providing entertainment in a fashion not intended, pure, comedy gold.


Silly debates indeed - however silly, debates are a lost art, a dying tradition of failing democracy.

At least the left is still capable of engaging itself in debate, while the right is unable to question or challenge anything within its own kamp. Conservatives no longer allow any debate amongst themselves, if they dare to raise any question they are branded traitor.

So let's make fun of those silly liberal debates, to avoid facing the awful truth that we have become fascist.



[Edited on 10/22/2019 by BrerRabbit]


dutchoneill - 10/25/2019 at 07:11 PM

How many Defense Attorneys are there in D.C.?


OriginalGoober - 10/25/2019 at 07:59 PM

quote:
quote:


quote:
Yesterday John Kasich came out in full support of removing him from office





"Small bites" , John, "Small bites.."


goldtop - 10/28/2019 at 03:10 AM

Anyone watching the WS game right now? Seems the entire stadium, after booing him, broke into a chant of "Lock him up". Impeach trump signs being hung from the stands and people behind home plate putting up vets for impeachment signs.

I thought I'd be happy but it actually makes me sad to think that the president of the US can't go to the American past time and be hailed. Can't throw out the first pitch because he's hated and would be booed just like he was when introduced

I can't wait for the spin from the WH tomorrow


pops42 - 10/28/2019 at 03:14 AM


BrerRabbit - 10/28/2019 at 03:59 AM

Historic backlash. It is sad for sure. I feel for the guy as a person, but he brought this on himself.


Skydog32103 - 10/28/2019 at 11:36 AM

If Trump was a half decent person, and treated people with respect, ya know, the bare minimum...then he could have avoided impeachment, gathered more moderate allies in Washington, and become one of the most powerful presidents this country has ever had...maybe THE most powerful in U.S. history. But no, because of his severe personality defects, and piece of garbage personality, Trump supporters granted themselves nothing but gridlock. They spent 8 years during Obama complaining that he was too extreme to get anything done, and they respond by electing someone even more extreme, plus mental illness on top of it. Great selection guys. Way to show them libs. You really showed us who's boss.


MartinD28 - 10/28/2019 at 11:37 AM

quote:
Anyone watching the WS game right now? Seems the entire stadium, after booing him, broke into a chant of "Lock him up". Impeach trump signs being hung from the stands and people behind home plate putting up vets for impeachment signs.

I thought I'd be happy but it actually makes me sad to think that the president of the US can't go to the American past time and be hailed. Can't throw out the first pitch because he's hated and would be booed just like he was when introduced

I can't wait for the spin from the WH tomorrow



Well...he earned this honestly. It's one of the few times one can use the word "honest" in the same sentence with "Trump".


BrerRabbit - 10/28/2019 at 12:51 PM

Sorry but getting booed at a baseball game means America is unhappy with you. Damn he must have felt awful. This is hard to watch going down.


Skydog32103 - 10/28/2019 at 01:41 PM

He wanted the boos so he can play victim and say he’s treated so unfairly. He went to the game just to collect ammunition to use against his detractors....”look how rude people are to me!”

This guy has desperately needed praise his whole life. Voters know he’s only about himself, they know he’s not going to change the country, and they know he shouldn’t be President. They know exactly what he’s about, but it doesn’t matter because he embraces and nurtures their flaws, instead of condemning them. The poor Trump supporter is just so sick and tired of being condemned by society. That’s why he is their savior.


Stephen - 10/28/2019 at 01:58 PM

So the same people who know he shouldn’t be president, also consider him their savor because he embraces & nurtures their flaws
Whatever........
W/disrespect toward none

[Edited on 10/28/2019 by Stephen]


Skydog32103 - 10/28/2019 at 02:28 PM

quote:
So the same people who know he shouldn’t be president, also consider him their savor because he embraces & nurtures their flaws
Whatever........


Yes, exactly. Everyone knows he isn’t qualified, but he “made it ok” to bash and attack people you don’t like. Feels good, don’t it?


BrerRabbit - 10/28/2019 at 03:49 PM


Over it.


gina - 10/29/2019 at 08:31 PM

There is a vote Thursday to make an official inquiry. Nancy likes to stick the pitchfork in awhile before they officially do him.


OriginalGoober - 10/31/2019 at 02:32 AM


What happens when whistle-blower is finally revealed and its determined this person is a stoolie for Schiff?


BrerRabbit - 10/31/2019 at 03:02 AM

What if its revealed that Trump is a stoolie for Putin?

We already know he is a stool for pootin

[Edited on 10/31/2019 by BrerRabbit]


Skydog32103 - 10/31/2019 at 03:25 AM

quote:
What happens when whistle-blower is finally revealed and its determined this person is a stoolie for Schiff?


What an incredible power you have. What’s the secret to knowing the motives of someone you have not identified?


OriginalGoober - 10/31/2019 at 11:31 PM

We'll see who is right. It's pretty obvious concealment must be maintained (the MSM has their marching orders). If this whistle-blower is legit and not a Schiff stoolie I will burn my maga hat.






Skydog32103 - 11/1/2019 at 12:22 AM

How will you know for sure in order to form an accurate judgment?


Chain - 11/1/2019 at 11:18 AM

quote:

What happens when whistle-blower is finally revealed and its determined this person is a stoolie for Schiff?


The whistle-blower has already served his/her purpose in that they prompted the beginning of the investigation and now inquiry. Should this person actually testify it's just more evidence of what has already been corroborated by other people within the White House itself.

You can try and spin the "stoolie for Schiff" Republican/bot line all you wish but the cat is out of the bag and the public knows Trump is guilty of everything he's claiming now he didn't do. The evidence is being corroborated practically daily by people who Trump and his minions placed in positions to witness his illegal acts.

Of course the running scared Republicans in the House and the Senate are too scared for their own jobs and so will not turn on Caligula but this now official inquiry will expose Trump and perhaps sway even more voters to not support him in 2020.


goldtop - 11/1/2019 at 01:59 PM



Personally I don't care if Mark Twain actually said this or not....But!! it speaks volumes about a tRump supporter/voter


Chain - 11/1/2019 at 02:50 PM

Twain is right....But the Independents still on the fence about Trump might be swayed by the mounting evidence shown in the public inquiry enough to show up to the polls in droves and vote against him.

It's all about turnout and so if the Dems turn out like they did in 2018 and enough Independents do too and vote against him, Trump is most likely toast. Even if the impeachment brings out the conservative vote, their numbers are not enough to sway the election back in Trump's favor....


kevdab - 11/1/2019 at 04:01 PM

As much as I would like to see Bone Spurs impeached, it's not going to happen. The Republican Senate won't cross party lines. The voters will have to decide next November. The problem is that the Democrats have nobody that will beat him. Biden isn't so clean in the Ukraine crap, and the country won't go socialist yet.


MartinD28 - 11/1/2019 at 05:37 PM

quote:
quote:

What happens when whistle-blower is finally revealed and its determined this person is a stoolie for Schiff?


The whistle-blower has already served his/her purpose in that they prompted the beginning of the investigation and now inquiry. Should this person actually testify it's just more evidence of what has already been corroborated by other people within the White House itself.

You can try and spin the "stoolie for Schiff" Republican/bot line all you wish but the cat is out of the bag and the public knows Trump is guilty of everything he's claiming now he didn't do. The evidence is being corroborated practically daily by people who Trump and his minions placed in positions to witness his illegal acts.

Of course the running scared Republicans in the House and the Senate are too scared for their own jobs and so will not turn on Caligula but this now official inquiry will expose Trump and perhaps sway even more voters to not support him in 2020.


What goob doesn't seem to get is that what the whistleblower provided has been more than validated and much more has been presented by others to show intent and the workings of a criminal enterprise run by Trump, Barr, Pompeo, and outsider Rudy G.


MartinD28 - 11/1/2019 at 05:45 PM

quote:
As much as I would like to see Bone Spurs impeached, it's not going to happen. The Republican Senate won't cross party lines. The voters will have to decide next November. The problem is that the Democrats have nobody that will beat him. Biden isn't so clean in the Ukraine crap, and the country won't go socialist yet.



I agree that the GOP Senate probably will toss all the facts & evidence aside and give Trump a pass. They all have their tongues up his rear in fear. They have no dignity & sold their souls. The John McCain types no longer are part of the GOP. Look at former Never Trumper, Lindsey Graham. He now totes Trump's golf clubs around and cleans his balls.

On the other hand, in the 2020 election I believe there is so much "wake up and smell the coffee" effect that the American people will reject Trump just like they did in the 2018 midterms. He was a proxy for the GOP House, he said he was on the ballot, and look at the the results. He is disliked and ditrusted by the public. There will be no GOP Senate to intervene in the elections.


gina - 11/1/2019 at 09:22 PM

quote:

What happens when whistle-blower is finally revealed and its determined this person is a stoolie for Schiff?


How do you know it isn't Schifty Goob? The whistleblower supposedly went to Schiff, maybe that is a cover story and the leak is Schiff himself.


Skydog32103 - 11/4/2019 at 06:18 PM

quote:
If this whistle-blower is legit and not a Schiff stoolie I will burn my maga hat.


You kept your red hat for:

1. “Russia if you’re listening, I hope you find those emails, our media will reward you.”
2. Helsinki
3. The Ukraine call transcript

There’s nothing left to salvage.


Jerry - 11/5/2019 at 12:33 AM

quote:
quote:

What happens when whistle-blower is finally revealed and its determined this person is a stoolie for Schiff?


The whistle-blower has already served his/her purpose in that they prompted the beginning of the investigation and now inquiry. Should this person actually testify it's just more evidence of what has already been corroborated by other people within the White House itself.



He will have to be called to testify. The Sixth Amendment calls for the accused to be able to face his accusers.
Quote: to be confronted with the witnesses against him.
Since he/she has "born witness against him" they have to be called to testify. If not, then a Federal Judge could call the whole proceeding moot and void.


Skydog32103 - 11/5/2019 at 03:04 AM

Why would any regular Joe civilian convince themselves they know the "truth" about the whistleblower's character and integrity? How much of an arrogant narcissist do you have to be to believe you have any insight whatsoever.


2112 - 11/5/2019 at 06:40 AM

quote:
Why would any regular Joe civilian convince themselves they know the "truth" about the whistleblower's character and integrity? How much of an arrogant narcissist do you have to be to believe you have any insight whatsoever.


Because if Trump and Fox News tells them something, then they believe it to be true without question. Anybody who says anything bad about Trump is fake news. You've had 3 years to figure this out. You should know this by now. It's the way cults work.


2112 - 11/5/2019 at 06:44 AM

quote:
quote:
If this whistle-blower is legit and not a Schiff stoolie I will burn my maga hat.


You kept your red hat for:

1. “Russia if you’re listening, I hope you find those emails, our media will reward you.”
2. Helsinki
3. The Ukraine call transcript

There’s nothing left to salvage.



I actually appreciate Trump supporters wearing their red hats. I consider it an early warning system.


BIGV - 11/5/2019 at 10:52 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
If this whistle-blower is legit and not a Schiff stoolie I will burn my maga hat.


You kept your red hat for:

1. “Russia if you’re listening, I hope you find those emails, our media will reward you.”
2. Helsinki
3. The Ukraine call transcript

There’s nothing left to salvage.



I actually appreciate Trump supporters wearing their red hats. I consider it an early warning system.


Yep, if only all 62,979,636 people could do it without fear of being physically assaulted.

If only the left were a little more tolerant!...lol


goldtop - 11/5/2019 at 02:42 PM

The red hat is the hat of hate and there is no debate!!!


2112 - 11/5/2019 at 03:24 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
If this whistle-blower is legit and not a Schiff stoolie I will burn my maga hat.


You kept your red hat for:

1. “Russia if you’re listening, I hope you find those emails, our media will reward you.”
2. Helsinki
3. The Ukraine call transcript

There’s nothing left to salvage.



I actually appreciate Trump supporters wearing their red hats. I consider it an early warning system.


Yep, if only all 62,979,636 people could do it without fear of being physically assaulted.

If only the left were a little more tolerant!...lol




Aw yes, playing the victim. Poor oppressed snowflakes.


BIGV - 11/5/2019 at 03:42 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
If this whistle-blower is legit and not a Schiff stoolie I will burn my maga hat.


You kept your red hat for:

1. “Russia if you’re listening, I hope you find those emails, our media will reward you.”
2. Helsinki
3. The Ukraine call transcript

There’s nothing left to salvage.



I actually appreciate Trump supporters wearing their red hats. I consider it an early warning system.


Yep, if only all 62,979,636 people could do it without fear of being physically assaulted.

If only the left were a little more tolerant!...lol




Aw yes, playing the victim. Poor oppressed snowflakes.


Too funny.

Question: "If a person is walking down the street wearing a MAGA hat and another attempts to rip it off their head, which is the 'intolerant snowflake' "?


goldtop - 11/5/2019 at 03:52 PM

Yes please be more tolerant of my Neo-Nazi tendencies. The fact I have no empathy, humanity, ethic, morals. I'm perfectly fine with caged children. Presidents that conspire with foreign governments to harm our elections. Yes you need to be more tolerant of my intolerance, of my hate and foul mouthed racists rants. Of the fact that I'm a raging a$$hole


BIGV - 11/5/2019 at 03:54 PM

quote:
Yes please be more tolerant of my Neo-Nazi tendencies. The fact I have no empathy, humanity, ethic, morals. I'm perfectly fine with caged children. Presidents that conspire with foreign governments to harm our elections. Yes you need to be more tolerant of my intolerance, of my hate and foul mouthed racists rants. Of the fact that I'm a raging a$$hole


I'm not sure you thoroughly understand the meaning of the word "Tolerance".


pops42 - 11/5/2019 at 04:53 PM

quote:
quote:
Yes please be more tolerant of my Neo-Nazi tendencies. The fact I have no empathy, humanity, ethic, morals. I'm perfectly fine with caged children. Presidents that conspire with foreign governments to harm our elections. Yes you need to be more tolerant of my intolerance, of my hate and foul mouthed racists rants. Of the fact that I'm a raging a$$hole


I'm not sure you thoroughly understand the meaning of the word "Tolerance".
Should we be tolerant of a president that puts the interests of Putin's Russia ahead of the interests of the United States?, Big Vee?.


BIGV - 11/5/2019 at 05:37 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Yes please be more tolerant of my Neo-Nazi tendencies. The fact I have no empathy, humanity, ethic, morals. I'm perfectly fine with caged children. Presidents that conspire with foreign governments to harm our elections. Yes you need to be more tolerant of my intolerance, of my hate and foul mouthed racists rants. Of the fact that I'm a raging a$$hole


I'm not sure you thoroughly understand the meaning of the word "Tolerance".
Should we be tolerant of a president that puts the interests of Putin's Russia ahead of the interests of the United States?, Big Vee?.


If you preach tolerance?...Yes


pops42 - 11/5/2019 at 06:25 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Yes please be more tolerant of my Neo-Nazi tendencies. The fact I have no empathy, humanity, ethic, morals. I'm perfectly fine with caged children. Presidents that conspire with foreign governments to harm our elections. Yes you need to be more tolerant of my intolerance, of my hate and foul mouthed racists rants. Of the fact that I'm a raging a$$hole


I'm not sure you thoroughly understand the meaning of the word "Tolerance".
Should we be tolerant of a president that puts the interests of Putin's Russia ahead of the interests of the United States?, Big Vee?.


If you preach tolerance?...Yes
Sounds like YOU preach TREASON, not "tolerance " Big Vee.


Skydog32103 - 11/5/2019 at 07:01 PM

quote:
Sounds like YOU preach TREASON, not "tolerance " Big Vee.


Reminds me of that pic of the two men wearing shirts that say “I’d rather be Russian than Democrat.” I can’t imagine condoning treason because you don’t like other Americans.


MartinD28 - 11/5/2019 at 07:17 PM

quote:
quote:
Sounds like YOU preach TREASON, not "tolerance " Big Vee.


Reminds me of that pic of the two men wearing shirts that say “I’d rather be Russian than Democrat.” I can’t imagine condoning treason because you don’t like other Americans.


Further - just look at the proliferation of hate crimes since Trump took office. He has given plenty of cover for hate crimes. Remember Charlottesvile and Trump's "good people on both sides". He's a natural for polarization and hate.


goldtop - 11/5/2019 at 08:51 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Yes please be more tolerant of my Neo-Nazi tendencies. The fact I have no empathy, humanity, ethic, morals. I'm perfectly fine with caged children. Presidents that conspire with foreign governments to harm our elections. Yes you need to be more tolerant of my intolerance, of my hate and foul mouthed racists rants. Of the fact that I'm a raging a$$hole


I'm not sure you thoroughly understand the meaning of the word "Tolerance".
Should we be tolerant of a president that puts the interests of Putin's Russia ahead of the interests of the United States?, Big Vee?.


If you preach tolerance?...Yes





BIGV - 11/5/2019 at 09:59 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Sounds like YOU preach TREASON, not "tolerance " Big Vee.


Reminds me of that pic of the two men wearing shirts that say “I’d rather be Russian than Democrat.” I can’t imagine condoning treason because you don’t like other Americans.


Further - just look at the proliferation of hate crimes since Trump took office. He has given plenty of cover for hate crimes. Remember Charlottesvile and Trump's "good people on both sides". He's a natural for polarization and hate.


And you hate him for it.


pops42 - 11/6/2019 at 12:58 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Yes please be more tolerant of my Neo-Nazi tendencies. The fact I have no empathy, humanity, ethic, morals. I'm perfectly fine with caged children. Presidents that conspire with foreign governments to harm our elections. Yes you need to be more tolerant of my intolerance, of my hate and foul mouthed racists rants. Of the fact that I'm a raging a$$hole


I'm not sure you thoroughly understand the meaning of the word "Tolerance".
Should we be tolerant of a president that puts the interests of Putin's Russia ahead of the interests of the United States?, Big Vee?.


If you preach tolerance?...Yes





Green shirt guy!


OriginalGoober - 11/7/2019 at 02:06 AM

Don jr. revealed the Schiff Stoollie is Eric Ciaramella.


goldtop - 11/7/2019 at 04:04 AM

I guess you feel proud exposing this man's name without any real evidence. What happens if this man is attacked and its not him? Did you take even one second t think about that?

I guess not because being a trump supporter requires no thought of one's action just justification for protecting your master. No matter if it's a fact or not or if this man's life and his family are now in danger. Again he may not be the person and even if he is it puts him and his family at risk.

But it isn't you that stepped up and need for your name to be held quiet, nope its you and all the supports who always step down


pops42 - 11/7/2019 at 12:04 PM

quote:
Don jr. revealed the Schiff Stoollie is Eric Ciaramella.
don jr. Is a certified imbecile. He belongs behind bars.


Skydog32103 - 11/7/2019 at 01:53 PM

Trump proudly presents himself as boisterous, ill-tempered, arrogant, divisive, and self-destructive to the point where he's knocking himself out of the game. He's the Antonio Brown of Washington.


StratDal - 11/7/2019 at 02:29 PM

quote:


Personally I don't care if Mark Twain actually said this or not....But!! it speaks volumes about a tRump supporter/voter


lol!!! Great meme or whatever they're called these days.


BrerRabbit - 11/7/2019 at 03:46 PM

Hahaha, so true.

I don't know if that is a Mark Twain quote, my bet is it is not - but I am certain of one thing: he would have spelled persuade correctly.

Companion quotes, off the cuff:

"Only an idiot would attempt to persuade an idiot with evidence."

Then, "Only an idiot would say that an idiot would have evidence with which to persuade an idiot."


goldtop - 11/7/2019 at 04:58 PM

quote:
Hahaha, so true.

I don't know if that is a Mark Twain quote, my bet is it is not - but I am certain of one thing: he would have spelled persuade correctly.

Companion quotes, off the cuff:

"Only an idiot would attempt to persuade an idiot with evidence."

Then, "Only an idiot would say that an idiot would have evidence with which to persuade an idiot."




I think the misspell was part of the joke...As though some back woods hick would pronounce the word "Pursuade"


BIGV - 11/8/2019 at 02:50 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Further - just look at the proliferation of hate crimes since Trump took office. He has given plenty of cover for hate crimes. Remember Charlottesvile and Trump's "good people on both sides". He's a natural for polarization and hate.

And you hate him for it.



Yep.


Yep. The hate for the President certainly "Out-Hates" all other hate.

Think about that.


goldtop - 11/8/2019 at 04:14 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Further - just look at the proliferation of hate crimes since Trump took office. He has given plenty of cover for hate crimes. Remember Charlottesvile and Trump's "good people on both sides". He's a natural for polarization and hate.

And you hate him for it.



Yep.


Yep. The hate for the President certainly "Out-Hates" all other hate.

Think about that.



2112 - 11/8/2019 at 05:43 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Further - just look at the proliferation of hate crimes since Trump took office. He has given plenty of cover for hate crimes. Remember Charlottesvile and Trump's "good people on both sides". He's a natural for polarization and hate.

And you hate him for it.



Yep.


Yep. The hate for the President certainly "Out-Hates" all other hate.

Think about that.


Not sure about that. I know a lot of us would like to see him locked in a cage, but most of us don't think we should send his family back to a war torn country.

So, not sure if Trump haters out hate even Trump himself.


Skydog32103 - 11/8/2019 at 09:20 AM

Green shirt guy is PERFECT for this thread.


goldtop - 11/8/2019 at 02:34 PM

quote:
Green shirt guy is PERFECT for this thread.


Green shirt guy is perfect for anything "Mr B3 Licks" BIGV has to say about anything. Absurd would be a gentle response to his comments but green shirt guy hit the note perfectly for his "difference of opinion"


Skydog32103 - 11/8/2019 at 02:36 PM

quote:
"a senior official in the Trump administration" describes President Trump as volatile, incompetent and unfit to be commander in chief, according to excerpts published Thursday by The Washington Post.


The newspaper says the book tells of racist and misogynist behind-the-scenes statements by Mr. Trump and says he "stumbles, slurs, gets confused, is easily irritated, and has trouble synthesizing information."

The Post says the book "paints a chilling portrait of the president as cruel, inept and a danger to the nation he was elected to lead."


Probably not a good idea to make such a person President of the United States. Does the right really want to be associated with this guy for decades to come? I wish they would know that they deserve a lot better than this clown.


goldtop - 11/13/2019 at 02:03 PM

Well here we are at the hearings...I'll ask again did anyone not see this coming? That he'd make it through without scandals and corruption or without being tried for impeachment?



[Edited on 11/13/2019 by goldtop]


Jerry - 11/13/2019 at 03:59 PM

quote:
Well here we are at the hearings...I'll ask again did anyone not see this coming? That he'd make it through without scandals and corruption or without being tried for impeachment?
[Edited on 11/13/2019 by goldtop]


How could we not know that at some point an impeachment effort would be put forth since Dems have been calling for it even before he was inaugurated.


pops42 - 11/13/2019 at 04:30 PM

Yeah, it's a phony witch hunt


Skydog32103 - 11/13/2019 at 04:39 PM

They were doing their job, after hearing “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you find those emails, you’ll be rewarded”. Once he enlisted Russia for help to win, why wouldn’t they mention it? It would be irresponsible to not mention it.


MartinD28 - 11/13/2019 at 04:41 PM

quote:
quote:
Well here we are at the hearings...I'll ask again did anyone not see this coming? That he'd make it through without scandals and corruption or without being tried for impeachment?
[Edited on 11/13/2019 by goldtop]


How could we not know that at some point an impeachment effort would be put forth since Dems have been calling for it even before he was inaugurated.


So, do believe Trump's actions in the Ukraine as presented by the below warrant an impeachment? Certainly most have us have heard or read their statements which are quite compelling.

House Intelligence Committee are Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the former National Security Council director for European affairs; Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union; and Kurt Volker, the former special envoy to Ukraine.

Two State Department officials — Deputy Assistant Secretary of State George Kent and acting ambassador to Ukraine William B. Taylor Jr. — on Wednesday will be the first witnesses to testify publicly.


BIGV - 11/13/2019 at 06:11 PM

quote:
Probably not a good idea to make such a person President of the United States.


Too funny. The same people coming forth and clearly stating that "Impeachment is part of the Constitutional process" are the same one screaming bloody murder about the Electoral College....

Hahaha


Skydog32103 - 11/13/2019 at 06:57 PM

quote:
Hahaha


You hate being working class, but it ain’t my fault or the “Dems”.


BIGV - 11/13/2019 at 07:00 PM

quote:
You hate being working class


Interesting and perhaps you can detail the experiences as you recall them and the many times we've met and discussed my profession and how I feel about it.


Skydog32103 - 11/13/2019 at 07:09 PM

quote:
Interesting and perhaps you can detail the experiences as you recall them and the many times we've met and discussed my profession and how I feel about it.


It was the very first thing you typed when I asked you why you hate Democrats....”because I’m working class and I don’t want people reaching into my pockets....”. Calling Dr. Freud. You make your own bed bro.


BIGV - 11/13/2019 at 07:18 PM

quote:
quote:
Interesting and perhaps you can detail the experiences as you recall them and the many times we've met and discussed my profession and how I feel about it.


It was the very first thing you typed when I asked you why you hate Democrats....”because I’m working class and I don’t want people reaching into my pockets....”. Calling Dr. Freud. You make your own bed bro.


I challenge you to post that phrase.


BrerRabbit - 11/13/2019 at 09:19 PM

quote:
. . . having been and continuing to be a working man, I deeply resent the answer for everything to be the Democratic principle of raising Taxes to support those who can not or more importantly to "those who will not work"......Also, the Democratic conclusion that ALL Illegal immigrants are just looking for a "better life" and that WE should shoulder that cost.

It is my money, if I decide to donate it, that is my choice. Do not reach into MY wallet under the pretense that there are people out there who need help.


Close enough to chalk it up to a paraphrase.


goldtop - 11/13/2019 at 09:54 PM

Actually the people coming forward today were 2 career diplomats appointed by tRump himself. One was a Vietnam war vet 5th in his class at West Point and had served under both Dem and Rep administrations. The other a 25 year public servant working for 3 Rep and 2 Dem administrations in the state department and reported directly to Mike Pompeo

Plus the additional call revealed between tRump and the EU ambassador where after the call was finished the EU ambassador(Who bought the job with a $1million donation) said all that tRump cared about was the investigations he wanted and not the aid

"Hand picked witnesses" they were called...Yeah hand picked by tRump


cyclone88 - 11/13/2019 at 09:58 PM

quote:
Too funny. The same people coming forth and clearly stating that "Impeachment is part of the Constitutional process" are the same one screaming bloody murder about the Electoral College.... Hahaha

Impeachment IS a process rooted in the constitution. Fact.

People citing facts have the ability to be objective. They also have opinions on unrelated topics.

Count me as one who can recognize the fact that impeachment is a constitutional matter and on other topics, I don't give a fig about the electoral college, the weather in Las Vegas, or Rod Stewart's model trains.


pops42 - 11/13/2019 at 10:01 PM

What is funny to me: those who believe what "trump says", when everything he says is **** . Holding back military aid, and soliciting the help of a foreign country to investigate a political rival is against the law, big vee, Jerry, gloober.


KCJimmy - 11/13/2019 at 10:54 PM

Which law is that btw? I thought they got their aid? Don't think they investigated to get it did they?


BIGV - 11/13/2019 at 11:17 PM

quote:
quote:
. . . having been and continuing to be a working man, I deeply resent the answer for everything to be the Democratic principle of raising Taxes to support those who can not or more importantly to "those who will not work"......Also, the Democratic conclusion that ALL Illegal immigrants are just looking for a "better life" and that WE should shoulder that cost.

It is my money, if I decide to donate it, that is my choice. Do not reach into MY wallet under the pretense that there are people out there who need help.


Close enough to chalk it up to a paraphrase.


"Close enough"...Fair enough...I don't care for the word "Class" in any form; therein lay my "objection"...


MartinD28 - 11/13/2019 at 11:24 PM

quote:
quote:
. . . having been and continuing to be a working man, I deeply resent the answer for everything to be the Democratic principle of raising Taxes to support those who can not or more importantly to "those who will not work"......Also, the Democratic conclusion that ALL Illegal immigrants are just looking for a "better life" and that WE should shoulder that cost.

It is my money, if I decide to donate it, that is my choice. Do not reach into MY wallet under the pretense that there are people out there who need help.


Close enough to chalk it up to a paraphrase.


I think Brer just achieved a checkmate.


MartinD28 - 11/13/2019 at 11:27 PM

quote:
Actually the people coming forward today were 2 career diplomats appointed by tRump himself. One was a Vietnam war vet 5th in his class at West Point and had served under both Dem and Rep administrations. The other a 25 year public servant working for 3 Rep and 2 Dem administrations in the state department and reported directly to Mike Pompeo



But Trump would have served if it wasn't for his bone spurs. And besides, he didn't need to serve because he's told us he knows more than the Generals.


BrerRabbit - 11/14/2019 at 05:28 AM


BrerRabbit - 11/14/2019 at 05:54 AM

quote:
. . . he knows more than the Generals


The only general he is going to know about is general population.


goldtop - 11/15/2019 at 04:07 PM

Just tweeted by Bret Bair on Fox

"That was a turning point in this hearing so far. She was already a sympathetic witness & the President’s tweet ripping her allowed Schiff to point it out real time characterizing it as witness tampering or intimidation -adding an article of impeachment real-time. twitter.com/johnrobertsfox…"

tRump just committed witness intimidation in real time...even FOX news says so


tcatanesi - 11/15/2019 at 04:39 PM

He said he's too busy being President to watch the hearings.

Trump lied AGAIN to us.

SAD!


tcatanesi - 11/15/2019 at 05:06 PM

tRUMP associate Roger Stone found guilty.

Ruh roh.


Skydog32103 - 11/15/2019 at 05:08 PM

Wow, not a good day for America.


BrerRabbit - 11/15/2019 at 05:20 PM

Making America Great Again, getting rid of the skumbags.


KCJimmy - 11/15/2019 at 05:32 PM

quote:
tRUMP associate Roger Stone found guilty.

Ruh roh.
He is bad guy. Done a lot of bad things. Seems they caught up with him.


tcatanesi - 11/15/2019 at 05:56 PM

Roger Stone is going to like prison.

He and his wife used to place "racy" ads in publications.

You can't make this stuff up.


goldtop - 11/15/2019 at 08:02 PM

quote:
Making America Great Again, getting rid of the skumbags.



goldtop - 11/15/2019 at 11:58 PM

The latest statement from a state diplomat that heard the call between Sondland and tRump

"Holmes testified that he asked Sondland why Trump did not "give a s--t about Ukraine."

Holmes said Sondland responded Trump only cares about "big stuff." When Holmes said that the Ukraine war was big, Sondland "big stuff" that benefits the President, like the Biden investigation

All in one day...witness intimidation and first hand witnesses testimony to tRump back door dealings


pops42 - 11/16/2019 at 11:14 PM

quote:
Roger Stone is going to like prison.

He and his wife used to place "racy" ads in publications.

You can't make this stuff up.
he has a tattoo of Nixon on his back.


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