Thread: Seven Turns rehearsal outtakes

pops42 - 6/17/2020 at 07:45 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0J-r1TVvZw


blackey - 6/18/2020 at 12:41 PM

That was fun to watch pops42. When I think of Warren and Woody being in the band, I imagine Gregg, Dickey. Butch and Jaimoe being much older than they were in the original band but they are still relatively young men here.

I listened to that Jimmy Carter show from Providence in 1975 a couple of nights ago. With all due respect to Johnny Neel, the difference between him and Chuck Leavell is just striking. Like comparing Liberace to Gregg Allman.


porkchopbob - 6/18/2020 at 01:13 PM

Johnny Neel is a great keyboard player, but he fits more of a Col Bruce-type band than the Allman Brothers. His sensibilities are less melodic, more out there which didn't fit the Brothers' more traditional approach on pieces like "Liz Reed" or "Jessica". Johnny should play what he wants to play, but you also have to know the temperature of the room - you can't rewrite the piano solo on "Jessica". Just not the right fit, and it turns out this lineup didn't need another keyboard player full-time, their sound was plenty full.


blackey - 6/18/2020 at 03:23 PM

Yeah I agree with that. I saw the Dickey Betts Band Pattern Disruptive tour. Two shows I think and it was Dickey, Waren, Matt on drums and Johnny on keys and harmonica and that band was hot and tight.

So I understand why Dickey chose him for the ABB when Chuck decided to stay as a sideman for the Rolling Stones. But in Gr022eggs book, Johnny wasn't liked by Gregg who felt strongly he shouldn't be in the ABB. Butch Trucks had a similar view. So when Warren, Allen and Johnny's contracts expired in 1990, they only renewed Warren and Allen. I imagine Warren was disappointed as he and Johnny were close friends before they joined Dickey's band in 1988


[Edited on 6/18/2020 by blackey]


sully - 6/18/2020 at 03:42 PM

that dickey lick at 9 - 9:60 is just killer. he started that in 73, but this added a new little flair to it. not sure how he does that. anyone???


pops42 - 6/18/2020 at 03:52 PM

quote:
Yeah I agree with that. I saw the Dickey Betts Band Pattern Disruptive tour. Two shows I think and it was Dickey, Waren, Matt on drums and Johnny on keys and harmonica and that band was hot and tight.

So I understand why Dickey chose him for the ABB when Chuck decided to stay as a sideman for the Rolling Stones. But in Gr022eggs book, Johnny wasn't liked by Gregg who felt strongly he shouldn't be in the ABB. Butch Trucks had a similar view. So when Warren, Allen and Johnny's contracts expired in 1990, they only renewed Warren and Allen. I imagine Warren was disappointed as he and Johnny were close friends before they joined Dickey's band in 1988


[Edited on 6/18/2020 by blackey]
Here's a Johnny story from 2018 https://www.facebook.com/johnnyneel/posts/i-guess-there-are-some-rumors-out -there-that-i-almost-died-on-the-southern-rock-/1465002753625177/


islalala - 6/18/2020 at 03:56 PM

Super cool ---- who's #%@! do you have to suck to get into that room?

Asking for a friend


peteymann54 - 6/18/2020 at 05:44 PM

Interesting, was Chuck invited to rejoin the band but chose to remain with the Stones? It was never clear to me if he felt welcomed back or not. I always loved what he added to the band, but confess to have missed the two guitar approach when he joined.


blackey - 6/18/2020 at 06:05 PM

Yes I remember reading in 1989 that Chuck was asked and said not if the Toler Brothers were part of it. Dickey is said to have told Chuck that Jaimoe and Butch we're on drums and Warren Haynes is on slide and Lead. But after considering it Chuck decided to keep his gig with the Rolling Stones.


hotlantatim - 6/18/2020 at 08:19 PM

Without pulling out the Midnight Riders book, which covered the 1989 reunion in detail, this is how I remember it went down. Chuck was interested and glad Warren was who they intended to ask to be second guitarist, but Chuck then was not invited to Dickey's place in FL to plan/discuss the reunion and felt left out.

Chuck had been out on tour with the Stones for the 1982 European tour but, they had not toured in 7 years by 1989. The Stones had released albums in 1983 and 1986 and Chuck played some on both (not positive how many tracks), but they didn't tour those records. Many thought the Stones were done. Mick & Keith had success with solo albums (Chuck played on a couple tracks on Mick's first one in 1985, but not the 1987 follow up; he also played on a track on Keith's Talk is Cheap).....so Chuck didn't know if he had worked with the Stones for the last time.

While the ABB were planning their 1989 tour to almost certainly include Chuck, Keith called Chuck to go on the road with them. It was the only guaranteed offer and it was the Stones. Hard to pass up. He's been basically a steady employee since their 1994 Steel Wheels tour. Anything on their calendar the last 20 years trumps anything he has.

I had always wished it had worked out for Chuck to be a part of the 1989 reunion & beyond, but it's worked out pretty amazing for him since.


blackey - 6/18/2020 at 08:32 PM

Yes Chuck has. But I clearly, without spending time to find the quote, remember reading Chuck saying that he would consider rejoining the Allman Brothers if the Toler Brothers were not in it. And Dickey told him they would not, that Warren Haynes is the other lead guitar so Dickey wouldn't have to play slide and Jaimoe was on drums with Butch.

Whether Chuck was formally asked to join...maybe not. But just recently some here also remembered reports that Chuck was asked. And he decided to continue to work for the Stones as a side man.

Also Mick Taylor's stories about the Stones is inline with Chuck not knowing whether the band was even still together. Taylor said they went years without calling him, touring or recording. So he quit. Then suddenly Jagger called saying they would be recording at a certain date and Taylor said he had moved on and Jagger got pissed at him but they are friendly when they see each other now.

I think I remember once after a long inactive stretch Keith Richard even said to a reporter who asked that he wasn't sure the band was still together.

[Edited on 6/18/2020 by blackey]


hotlantatim - 6/18/2020 at 08:59 PM

I didn't disagree on whether he had been asked (I believe he had) nor the Toler part of what you said (I said he was happy Warren was being asked)

He wasn't really continuing with the Stones in 1989 as he was not doing anything with them (and hadn't really ever for more than just a couple short things and it was years before). Most assumed they were broken up or no longer a touring band.

The Mick Taylor comparison doesn't make as much sense since the Stones were a busy active band between 1969-1974 with Taylor as an official member. He recorded with them in 1974 and left the band the same year. Not saying that were great at communicating with him or that they didn't take some breaks, but that's much different than Chuck from 1982-1989 and the Stones.


matt05 - 6/19/2020 at 12:52 AM

quote:
Yes Chuck has. But I clearly, without spending time to find the quote, remember reading Chuck saying that he would consider rejoining the Allman Brothers if the Toler Brothers were not in it. And Dickey told him they would not, that Warren Haynes is the other lead guitar so Dickey wouldn't have to play slide and Jaimoe was on drums with Butch.

Whether Chuck was formally asked to join...maybe not. But just recently some here also remembered reports that Chuck was asked. And he decided to continue to work for the Stones as a side man.

Also Mick Taylor's stories about the Stones is inline with Chuck not knowing whether the band was even still together. Taylor said they went years without calling him, touring or recording. So he quit. Then suddenly Jagger called saying they would be recording at a certain date and Taylor said he had moved on and Jagger got pissed at him but they are friendly when they see each other now.

I think I remember once after a long inactive stretch Keith Richard even said to a reporter who asked that he wasn't sure the band was still together.

[Edited on 6/18/2020 by blackey]


mick taylor has a bad memory then as the stones toured ever year he was a member and released an album every year too until he quit


blackey - 6/19/2020 at 01:51 PM

Yes Mike Taylor must have a bad memory. But that is what Taylor said. Wasn't sure the band was still together when he quit.


Rusty - 6/19/2020 at 05:39 PM

I'm the biggest Mick Taylor fan in the world. But I do believe he quit the stones just weeks before the 1975 tour ("Only Rock and Roll") was to begin.


pops42 - 6/19/2020 at 06:07 PM

Mick quit for the same reason Bill Wyman did, they both had a hand in writing classic songs but recieved no credit/ money.


blackey - 6/19/2020 at 08:21 PM

Yep remember reading Taylor was pissed when a certain album came out and felt he should have been credited on a few songs but it was all Jagger, Richards.


pops42 - 6/19/2020 at 08:28 PM

quote:
Yep remember reading Taylor was pissed when a certain album came out and felt he should have been credited on a few songs but it was all Jagger, Richards.
Yep


hotlantatim - 6/19/2020 at 08:41 PM

Mick Taylor quit the Stones in December 1974. They were actually ready to record and some of those Dec '74 recordings (without Taylor) appeared on Black & Blue released in 1976.

Their Tour of Americas was planned after his departure and began June 1975. Ron Wood was billed as playing with them for that tour and then made an official RS member December 1975.

Some worthless music trivia for your Friday afternoon....


CanadianMule - 6/21/2020 at 04:17 AM

LOL - I love this site. A video of the ABB turns into a debate about Chuck and into Mick Taylor and Bill Wyman.

On the video - when I first saw that years ago I said the same thing - "Did someone film it all that day? That would be a cool release - Behind The Scenes packaged with something else.


Chuck was being paid all along by The Stones. Free to do his thing but if they say "Tomorrow" then it is tomorrow. Leaving that would be crazy and I doubt he ever gave it much thought. Perhaps worked around it but...it didn't happen

Although it was sad as Woody had died but the Tour that Chuck did with Govt Mule following Woody's passing was unbelievable. I was close enough to Chuck in Boston that I could have played his low notes for him. Amazing to watch him so close all night.

Bill Wyman and Charlie got screwed but even more so Bill. Imagine Sympathy For The Devil minus the bass line.


dobro - 6/22/2020 at 07:39 PM

Hey! Aint that a young Twinkle at 12:00??


porkchopbob - 6/22/2020 at 07:56 PM

quote:
On the video - when I first saw that years ago I said the same thing - "Did someone film it all that day? That would be a cool release - Behind The Scenes packaged with something else.

There's definitely more material.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYWT_xnDNOc

I recall a VH1 promo that used footage from these rehearsals. Plus, some of the footage was used for the "statesboro blues" music video from the Dreams boxed set.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUgk_Tsee6s


gotdrumz - 6/24/2020 at 05:04 PM

Thanks Pops


JimSheridan - 6/24/2020 at 05:44 PM

So sweet to hear Warren sliding away on "Statesboro." Does he always play in standard?


porkchopbob - 6/24/2020 at 06:52 PM

quote:
So sweet to hear Warren sliding away on "Statesboro." Does he always play in standard?


I've only ever heard Warren play slide in standard tuning. In a recent Andy Aledort interview he stated it was because Dickey didn't want to wait for anyone to switch guitars.


dadof2 - 6/25/2020 at 02:15 PM

these videos remind me that Dickey is,if not the best guitar player to ever play in the ABB,the most exciting.
his playing was so energized i recall being hyped up all day knowing another beacon show was coming that night....doing 8-10 shows was very intense and major fun...sure do miss those days...for me i got on the bus with ABB in 71 and first saw them with Dickey/Chuck/Lamar lineup...

[Edited on 6/25/2020 by dadof2]


CanadianMule - 6/25/2020 at 04:20 PM

quote:
So sweet to hear Warren sliding away on "Statesboro." Does he always play in standard?


Generally speaking - yes. There are some tunes on the newer Mule albums where he used some open tunings.

I think Warrens greatest period of growth was from 89 to 96-97. His solos were adventurous and not as predictable as in his 2nd stint with the ABB. Always amazing and probably the most consistent artist that I have ever saw. But in those early years, there was more "fire" and relied less on the "crutches" that all players have.

It is why I believe that Gordie Johnson has not been a good producer/Co-Producer for the Mule. Warren needs someone who will be honest and not as much of a friend. Far too many songs that sound like variations from each other. Each generation the formula gets weaker. It started around Patchwork Quilt (awesome) and then after Woody's passing The Deep End albums have a few variations of that formula/pattern. Which again the songs are strong for the most part. But each album since has had similar songs on them where the progressions are similar and the solos are similar. A good producer will tell Warren - I have heard you do that before. Same when it comes to solos - any artist after so many releases needs to be "pushed".

Warren's writing production has been incredible and there was a period between The Mule, ABB. Phil Lesh and solo where I think there was too much. So busy that I think that he relied on those crutches more often.

Seeing these older videos - you see that fire and unpredictability that made me love him so much originally. And Dickey is in fine form and Warren has always had the ability to bring out the best in others. Great lineup and I loved all those tours.


dadof2 - 6/25/2020 at 04:31 PM

quote:
quote:
So sweet to hear Warren sliding away on "Statesboro." Does he always play in standard?


Generally speaking - yes. There are some tunes on the newer Mule albums where he used some open tunings.

I think Warrens greatest period of growth was from 89 to 96-97. His solos were adventurous and not as predictable as in his 2nd stint with the ABB. Always amazing and probably the most consistent artist that I have ever saw. But in those early years, there was more "fire" and relied less on the "crutches" that all players have.

It is why I believe that Gordie Johnson has not been a good producer/Co-Producer for the Mule. Warren needs someone who will be honest and not as much of a friend. Far too many songs that sound like variations from each other. Each generation the formula gets weaker. It started around Patchwork Quilt (awesome) and then after Woody's passing The Deep End albums have a few variations of that formula/pattern. Which again the songs are strong for the most part. But each album since has had similar songs on them where the progressions are similar and the solos are similar. A good producer will tell Warren - I have heard you do that before. Same when it comes to solos - any artist after so many releases needs to be "pushed".

Warren's writing production has been incredible and there was a period between The Mule, ABB. Phil Lesh and solo where I think there was too much. So busy that I think that he relied on those crutches more often.

Seeing these older videos - you see that fire and unpredictability that made me love him so much originally. And Dickey is in fine form and Warren has always had the ability to bring out the best in others. Great lineup and I loved all those tours.


I truly hate to say it but I agree with every single word you wrote here.(even the part where you acknowledge how great Jack White is-LOL)
But seriously,you really do capture the total picture of Warren’s music-the bad and the excellent.
It’s the reason I don’t listen to most things Warren has done in recent years-the formula bores me to tears. However Warren’s playing in the 3/10 Brothers show at MSG was some of the most creative playing he’s done in years. Reminded me of the passion and fire he brought from 89-96/97.


JimSheridan - 6/25/2020 at 04:32 PM

Thanks, folks. The reason I was asking about the standard tuning is that a guitar pal of mine who is a very good slide player was commenting on how he feels he can only really nail some classic Duane-isms by playing slide in Open E.

Warren's playing on that "Statesboro" from this rehearsals session certainly shows him hitting the Duane notes. Very impressive.


porkchopbob - 6/25/2020 at 05:44 PM

quote:
Thanks, folks. The reason I was asking about the standard tuning is that a guitar pal of mine who is a very good slide player was commenting on how he feels he can only really nail some classic Duane-isms by playing slide in Open E.

Warren's playing on that "Statesboro" from this rehearsals session certainly shows him hitting the Duane notes. Very impressive.


Jack Pearson typically plays in standard too. If you know your scales in various tunings, you can hit most licks on the fret board in standard that you can in open E. I find some slide players hang out around a fret and don't realize how those notes transpose to a standard scale, since it's just a fret or two difference on a few strings.


CanadianMule - 6/25/2020 at 06:39 PM

Because I always play in standard tuning, my knowledge of the fretboard and scales is vastly superior than if I play in open tunings. So I play slide in standard tuning. If I use an open tuning, I tend to play the same stuff over and over. That is what amazes me about Derek. More so now that he will put the slide aside more than in his youth. Some of the riffs he plays just look alien to me. lol

Many open tuning guys will play the same stuff but then there are those like Derek. He learned the theory in the open tuning which is so cool. When I try to figure stuff like that out - it feels like school and I am failing.

Standard tuning still keeps me guessing so I will stay there.

Now Jack can play a run of notes on the slide and his technique is so good it seems like his fingers just making the slide sound. Unreal.


porkchopbob - 6/25/2020 at 07:07 PM

I totally get sticking with one tuning, it's a bit like suddenly switching languages.

Agree, Jack's playing is just effortless, so smooth.

Derek has such a unique style. Sure, he slides up and down a single string where other slide players would hangout on a fret. But I don't think people appreciate some of the stuff he is playing without the slide - in Open E and finger picking. I was listening to a "Joyful Noise" from a 2019 Beach show and Derek's rhythm was super tasty.


blackey - 6/26/2020 at 01:00 AM

https://youtu.be/G1jpQu6qR1E

What tuning is this slide playing?


CanadianMule - 6/26/2020 at 04:56 AM

Standard tuning


blackey - 6/26/2020 at 11:14 AM

Thanks. Before that Strat was stolen, Warren could adjust it to make it sound like a dobro. And Warren, in a radio interview and Gregg was their too, said his red Strat could sound like a dobro when answering a question about Seven Turns and did he play a dobro on part of the track.


kevdab - 6/26/2020 at 11:29 AM

I remember when this album came out. It was like a new birth for the band. I believe this is when the amphitheartres started being built, which resulted in a lot of summer touring. They would come to Great Woods in Mass. at least a couple times every summer. Dickey and Warren were great together. They didn't need Johnny Neal though.


blackey - 6/26/2020 at 12:54 PM

Gregg says in his book that Seven Turns is a very good album and it returned the band to the kind of album that they were making in the early 1970's.

In recent years Gregg said his favorite album by the ABB is Idlewild South and Midnight Rider was the song he was most proud of. Then a little later he said Eat A Peach. And Fillmore East is his favorite live album by any band. Very proud of it. And indeed he should have been.


blackey - 6/26/2020 at 07:23 PM

I agree with Charlie Daniels. This is the best electric slide playing in the history of music. So smooth, clean, clear, perfectly placed notes and tons of energy and emotion. With respect to Jack Pearson, Derek Trucks, Warren etc, Duane was tops and like Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, Gary Moore, B. B. King and other greats...a one of a kind and never be another one.

https://youtu.be/ezPZxfS1jys


gina - 6/27/2020 at 02:39 AM

I need to listen to stuff like this when Dickey is just playin' his butt off. It helps me get centered. We go through so much every day. We just need some clarity to help get back to what's important. Musical meditation.


Brendan - 6/27/2020 at 09:45 PM

quote:
https://youtu.be/G1jpQu6qR1E

What tuning is this slide playing?


That is some gun slingin right there.


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