Thread: Similarities in setlists of original ABB lineup?

DOVETAIL - 8/7/2019 at 03:49 PM

Did Duane insist on similar setlists for the original lineup?. Somehow I've gotten the impression over the years the approach was further homage to Miles Davis who took a similar approach with his groups, particularly the quintets?


pops42 - 8/7/2019 at 03:55 PM

They were a new band, with 2 studio albums and 1 live record by mid 1971, wasn't the material for much of a varied set list.


matt05 - 8/7/2019 at 05:34 PM

quote:
They were a new band, with 2 studio albums and 1 live record by mid 1971, wasn't the material for much of a varied set list.



that's not really an answer though because the band knew 20+ cover tunes by 1971 too


DOVETAIL - 8/7/2019 at 05:39 PM

quote:
They were a new band, with 2 studio albums and 1 live record by mid 1971, wasn't the material for much of a varied set list.

I comprehend the premise of your observation. It does not, however, directly address my question for which, by the way, I would welcome additional insight...Alan Paul!?!?


hotlantatim - 8/7/2019 at 06:38 PM

They had 20 songs in the repertoire by the end of 1970 between songs played live (originals + covers) and song recorded in the studio. Surprised some more of the studio songs from the first 2 albums didn't get played more often when they were brand new like Midnight Rider, Please Call Home, Revival, Don't Want You No More, Cross To Bear.


BIGV - 8/7/2019 at 07:21 PM

quote:
quote:
They were a new band, with 2 studio albums and 1 live record by mid 1971, wasn't the material for much of a varied set list.

I comprehend the premise of your observation. It does not, however, directly address my question for which, by the way, I would welcome additional insight...Alan Paul!?!?


Here's an interesting coincidence, that set-list thing continued well after Duane's passing. Look at the tours in '73 & 89, pretty constant. It wasn't 'til Warren's emergence and Dickey's departure that the rotation became more diverse....


hotlantatim - 8/7/2019 at 07:30 PM

setlists had become diverse with Dickey in the band in the back half of the 1990s too. And even before that they mixed it up some.

The late 1990s ABB would rotate 3 setlists (with some minor variations) and things like that. Warren took it to a whole other level upon his return to the band.


AlPaul - 8/7/2019 at 08:46 PM

quote:
I comprehend the premise of your observation. It does not, however, directly address my question for which, by the way, I would welcome additional insight...Alan Paul!?!?


Thanks... I've had my head deeply in SRV land for three years, so I'm going to answer from memory and instinct here. Duane and Dickey and Gregg all wanted things to be really tight. I don't think there was any disagreement among those three about this approach. I've never heard of any at all. And I've never heard anyone cite Miles as an influence here, though that's an interesting concept and I'll ask Jaimoe when I can. I always thought of it as more of an old school rehearsed band approach. Work stuff out in private and play it polished in public.

Look how Gregg ran his solo band right til the end. And how Dickey obviously preferred to run things as well. After Garcia's death, quite a few Deadheads gravitated to the band. They went to a few shows and basically went "WTF? Same show." Warren and Woody had been advocating for opening things up and finally got somewhere on that basis, but Dickey would only go for adding a C set to an A and B, so they rotated. Both Gregg and Dickey had some trouble remembering lyrics of songs they didn't play all the time.

After DB was gone and WH was back, things changed.


stormyrider - 8/7/2019 at 09:05 PM

Look at GD setlists from 69, 70. Not a lot of variation there either, and they had been playing together since about 66.
I would say through the 70s the Dead had about 2 or "unique" shows worth of tunes.


blackey - 8/7/2019 at 09:19 PM

You are right Alan. I began seeing as many shows as possible in February 1970 and it always opened with Statesboro Blues except I remember one that started with Liz Reed and I think Statesboro was third.

There would be some variation during the show if Duane felt like singing and threw in Dimples and the order may be reversed on a couple of songs here and there. The diversity came from the solos being open and free where the musician played what he felt like until he played key notes to cue the band he was finished and it's the next part of the song now.

I remember by about 1995 and Butch was posting on the site regularly there where people pushing for more of a Dead style where the sets are completely different every night and you would get a deep cut or something completely new, maybe an unexpected cover. Butch was for it but later reported Dickey and Gregg didnt like it and said
they didnt do that when Duane was in the band. But when they began to play long runs at the Beacon, Butch said Dickey finally caved a little and agreed to altering 3 sets. One usually started with Statesboro and another with DWYNM/Cross to Bare but Butch soon got complaints about that. If they started with one they knew Blue Sky was soon coming and Ramblin'Man with the other. And I remember Butch saying part of it was Dickey just couldn't remember exactly how a song went, even if he wrote it, if he hadn,t played it in awhile. Said they were in Raleigh and someone important wanted to hear High Falls but Dickey couldn't remember exactly how it went it had been so long. But they rehearsed it later and played it the next year there. I think it was 1995 or 6.


tori - 8/8/2019 at 12:52 AM

I've wondered about their approach for years especially when compared to a contemporary band like the Grateful Dead that seemed to mix their set lists up (not saying that approach is better because many Dead shows are aimless and tedious). In 1969 and through 1970, I assume they were the opening act on many bills and probably had a limited time frame that required a timed set. In addition, Gregg seemed to admire soul singers who I've heard played very scripted shows. Still, there are some shows from the original line up that get out there a little bit. Can't wait to hear the Mtn Jam on the new Fillmore West boxed set. Had a rough tape of that for years and that goes in many directions.


pops42 - 8/8/2019 at 04:47 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
They were a new band, with 2 studio albums and 1 live record by mid 1971, wasn't the material for much of a varied set list.

I comprehend the premise of your observation. It does not, however, directly address my question for which, by the way, I would welcome additional insight...Alan Paul!?!?


Here's an interesting coincidence, that set-list thing continued well after Duane's passing. Look at the tours in '73 & 89, pretty constant. It wasn't 'til Warren's emergence and Dickey's departure that the rotation became more diverse....
Exactly.


pops42 - 8/8/2019 at 05:01 AM

quote:
quote:
They were a new band, with 2 studio albums and 1 live record by mid 1971, wasn't the material for much of a varied set list.



that's not really an answer though because the band knew 20+ cover tunes by 1971 too
That means nothing. They were still building a following at that time, and needed to keep it simple and tight. Like someone said, they didn't mix things up till after Dickey was no longer with the band.


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 12:12 PM

How many bands of that era played a radically different show from night-to-night? I don't think it's really that odd, if you're a touring band, you bring your best show to a new city each night. Sure, today there is so much more material that like bands can draw from and so many more fans going to multiple shows, but that just wasn't common practice in 1970. Especially when you consider not a lot of bands were playing 300 dates in a year.


matt05 - 8/8/2019 at 01:35 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
They were a new band, with 2 studio albums and 1 live record by mid 1971, wasn't the material for much of a varied set list.



that's not really an answer though because the band knew 20+ cover tunes by 1971 too
That means nothing. They were still building a following at that time, and needed to keep it simple and tight. Like someone said, they didn't mix things up till after Dickey was no longer with the band.



not true as mentioned they started mixing things up in the mid 90's while dickey was still there and dickey from the mid 90's until the mid 00's played new songs not even released on albums yet and in the case of the solo songs from the 00's 3 of them were never ever recorded in the studio. I have a feeling at least from 1972-1995 the lack of diverse setlist has more to do with substance abuse problems by multiple band members than what the knew how to play or who was in the band.


matt05 - 8/8/2019 at 01:43 PM

just taking a quick glance. from 1990-1995 looks like the band played about 40 different tunes a year. from 1996-2000 the number was closer to 50 . some of those years it looks like over 50. 2003 is when it started to go over 50.


steadyhorse - 8/8/2019 at 01:48 PM

Wanting to be a tight new band makes sense to me, if your listening to the original 6 bands live recordings yeah, there the same songs, but they changed up guitar solos. I love One Way Out and You Donít Love Me from Live at Stonybrook, great and different versions from a evolving band. I always wondered how different the rest of Eat A Peach and Brothers and Sisters would be if Duaneís iconic sound was there.


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 01:49 PM

quote:
I have a feeling at least from 1972-1995 the lack of diverse setlist has more to do with substance abuse problems by multiple band members than what the knew how to play or who was in the band.


I don't agree that it was substance abuse-related at all. Some bands just have the songs that they've rehearsed and that's their show that they take out on the road. They're not playing for the traveling fan, they're playing for the city they are in.

Anyone who has ever played music with other musicians knows you don't just bust out "High Falls" on a whim - it's got to be rehearsed. The Allman Brothers music is somewhat complicated when there are that many moving pieces. The Grateful Dead would learn songs on stage (or Bob Weir would teach himself slide) but the Allmans couldn't just drop a deep cut without rehearsing it. As mentioned, Warren and Woody were the ones pushing for mixing it up which is why that started happening in moderation in the mid-1990s, and even more when Warren returned to the band in 2001.


matt05 - 8/8/2019 at 02:20 PM

quote:
quote:
I have a feeling at least from 1972-1995 the lack of diverse setlist has more to do with substance abuse problems by multiple band members than what the knew how to play or who was in the band.


I don't agree that it was substance abuse-related at all. Some bands just have the songs that they've rehearsed and that's their show that they take out on the road. They're not playing for the traveling fan, they're playing for the city they are in.

Anyone who has ever played music with other musicians knows you don't just bust out "High Falls" on a whim - it's got to be rehearsed. The Allman Brothers music is somewhat complicated when there are that many moving pieces. The Grateful Dead would learn songs on stage (or Bob Weir would teach himself slide) but the Allmans couldn't just drop a deep cut without rehearsing it. As mentioned, Warren and Woody were the ones pushing for mixing it up which is why that started happening in moderation in the mid-1990s, and even more when Warren returned to the band in 2001.



so you doubt it had nothing to do with most of the band barely being able to remember their own name as a reason why they were unable to remember songs they rarely/never played live? some shows the guys screwed up songs they always played live to the point it caused a rift between dickey and the rest of the band once Gregg tried to straighten up and dickey was no longer a member


DOVETAIL - 8/8/2019 at 02:47 PM

quote:
quote:
I comprehend the premise of your observation. It does not, however, directly address my question for which, by the way, I would welcome additional insight...Alan Paul!?!?


Thanks... I've had my head deeply in SRV land for three years, so I'm going to answer from memory and instinct here. Duane and Dickey and Gregg all wanted things to be really tight. I don't think there was any disagreement among those three about this approach. I've never heard of any at all. And I've never heard anyone cite Miles as an influence here, though that's an interesting concept and I'll ask Jaimoe when I can. I always thought of it as more of an old school rehearsed band approach. Work stuff out in private and play it polished in public.

Look how Gregg ran his solo band right til the end. And how Dickey obviously preferred to run things as well. After Garcia's death, quite a few Deadheads gravitated to the band. They went to a few shows and basically went "WTF? Same show." Warren and Woody had been advocating for opening things up and finally got somewhere on that basis, but Dickey would only go for adding a C set to an A and B, so they rotated. Both Gregg and Dickey had some trouble remembering lyrics of songs they didn't play all the time.

After DB was gone and WH was back, things changed.


Have read extensively about the group over the years but can't imagine I imagined these points...Currently combing through liners to various reissue titles after referencing RandyP's Skydog--Was just about to consult your book Mr. Paul so glad you responded. Along the lines of my original premise, I seem to recall mention that when band reformed in '89, they kept to a fairly standard setlist in compliance with Duane's earlier wishes--think I will go to liner notes of Play All Night next!


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 02:53 PM

quote:
so you doubt it had nothing to do with most of the band barely being able to remember their own name as a reason why they were unable to remember songs they rarely/never played live?

YES.

As I said, most bands of that era played similar set lists night in and night out on the same tour. Think of all of the Allman Brothers' inspirations - BB King, Albert King, James Brown, etc - they toured with a list of songs that their band knew. Same with their contemporaries - The Band, Marshall Tucker, Traffic, Joe Cocker - all went out on tour with a polished set of songs. That's how the pros did it.

Gregg's own band, from when he started touring to his final tour, rarely mixed up the set list. Warren and Derek came into the band drawing inspiration from a lot of different bands, which why not only were deep cuts dusted off ("Come & Go Blues") or re-arranged ("Wasted Words"), other covers were introduced (Van Morrison, Otis Redding, The Band, etc) to keep things fresh for them. I don't think the original members started tours saying "we are going to be too sauced to remember more than 20 songs" - that takes a lot of foresight and self-awarness. That's just not how it works. Just because the Allman Brothers improvise within their song's structure doesn't mean they are going to call out "Louisiana Lou" that day just for fun. It was a deliberate, well-rehearsed band, they weren't just throwing caution to the wind while on the road. You bring your A game.

[Edited on 8/8/2019 by porkchopbob]


JimSheridan - 8/8/2019 at 03:12 PM

Most rock bands of that era did not mix their setlists too much. Go through the setlists for the Stones or Zepp or the Who at that time, for example.

I agree with Al Paul that in the wake of the Dead's passing, a lot of Deadheads glommed onto seeing the ABB, and that is a fanbase who goes to see MULTIPLE shows per tour and who expect varied setlists.

Don't forget the influence of the internet. Since the mid 90s, the internet has enabled the audience to have info about every show, every note, all the time. That is a game changer. There was nothing like that in Duane's time. I can see how that would push a band to need to mix things up more.


DOVETAIL - 8/8/2019 at 03:46 PM

quote:
Most rock bands of that era did not mix their setlists too much. Go through the setlists for the Stones or Zepp or the Who at that time, for example.

I agree with Al Paul that in the wake of the Dead's passing, a lot of Deadheads glommed onto seeing the ABB, and that is a fanbase who goes to see MULTIPLE shows per tour and who expect varied setlists.

Don't forget the influence of the internet. Since the mid 90s, the internet has enabled the audience to have info about every show, every note, all the time. That is a game changer. There was nothing like that in Duane's time. I can see how that would push a band to need to mix things up more.


Again, not arguing the preponderance of similarities in setlists across the musical universe, but only inquiring about the 'stability' (sic) of ABB's in its early days and, more importantly, to a specific purpose. John Lynskey's liner notes to Play All Night reference " a diverse but fairly rigid setlist...only slightly varying...a tradition started by Duane..." I will have to keep looking for this approach as obeisance to Miles, but the author's reference in this respect sufficiently satisfies my curiosity (as the many other tangential responses did not--my how our attention can wander?!?!?)


matt05 - 8/8/2019 at 03:52 PM

quote:
quote:
so you doubt it had nothing to do with most of the band barely being able to remember their own name as a reason why they were unable to remember songs they rarely/never played live?

YES.

As I said, most bands of that era played similar set lists night in and night out on the same tour. Think of all of the Allman Brothers' inspirations - BB King, Albert King, James Brown, etc - they toured with a list of songs that their band knew. Same with their contemporaries - The Band, Marshall Tucker, Traffic, Joe Cocker - all went out on tour with a polished set of songs. That's how the pros did it.

Gregg's own band, from when he started touring to his final tour, rarely mixed up the set list. Warren and Derek came into the band drawing inspiration from a lot of different bands, which why not only were deep cuts dusted off ("Come & Go Blues") or re-arranged ("Wasted Words"), other covers were introduced (Van Morrison, Otis Redding, The Band, etc) to keep things fresh for them. I don't think the original members started tours saying "we are going to be too sauced to remember more than 20 songs" - that takes a lot of foresight and self-awarness. That's just not how it works. Just because the Allman Brothers improvise within their song's structure doesn't mean they are going to call out "Louisiana Lou" that day just for fun. It was a deliberate, well-rehearsed band, they weren't just throwing caution to the wind while on the road. You bring your A game.

[Edited on 8/8/2019 by porkchopbob]



I don't think they thought "we will be too out of it to remember more tunes". I think it was more "lets stick with what we know" that we if there was an issue they can almost sleepwalk through it and be ok but dickey got to a point that was harder. I don't think the band even attempted to practice/rehearse more than 20-25 songs for each year prior to the 90's. I'm not saying there aren't other factors involved too. I'm just saying how much rehearsing were they going to do really


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 04:04 PM

quote:
I don't think they thought "we will be too out of it to remember more tunes". I think it was more "lets stick with what we know" that we if there was an issue they can almost sleepwalk through it and be ok but dickey got to a point that was harder. I don't think the band even attempted to practice/rehearse more than 20-25 songs for each year prior to the 90's. I'm not saying there aren't other factors involved too. I'm just saying how much rehearsing were they going to do really

I don't believe their potential inebriation was a conscious, deliberate, contributing factor to their carefully planned set lists.


MartinD28 - 8/8/2019 at 04:17 PM

quote:
quote:
I have a feeling at least from 1972-1995 the lack of diverse setlist has more to do with substance abuse problems by multiple band members than what the knew how to play or who was in the band.


I don't agree that it was substance abuse-related at all. Some bands just have the songs that they've rehearsed and that's their show that they take out on the road. They're not playing for the traveling fan, they're playing for the city they are in.

Anyone who has ever played music with other musicians knows you don't just bust out "High Falls" on a whim - it's got to be rehearsed. The Allman Brothers music is somewhat complicated when there are that many moving pieces. The Grateful Dead would learn songs on stage (or Bob Weir would teach himself slide) but the Allmans couldn't just drop a deep cut without rehearsing it. As mentioned, Warren and Woody were the ones pushing for mixing it up which is why that started happening in moderation in the mid-1990s, and even more when Warren returned to the band in 2001.


The point on songs like "High Falls" is spot on. I was listening to the original album cut last night as well as a live version. A song like that is not a typical 3 to 5 minute stage song that falls along the lines of (example - verse, verse, chorus, solo, bridge, chorus, fade). "High Falls" is a reasonably complicated tune with the buildups, extended solos, dynamics, and timing changes. It would be a disaster w/out a good bit of rehearsing. Some of the more 3 chord blues & related AAB tunes & covers are much easier to throw into a setlist with minimal effort.


matt05 - 8/8/2019 at 04:58 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
I have a feeling at least from 1972-1995 the lack of diverse setlist has more to do with substance abuse problems by multiple band members than what the knew how to play or who was in the band.


I don't agree that it was substance abuse-related at all. Some bands just have the songs that they've rehearsed and that's their show that they take out on the road. They're not playing for the traveling fan, they're playing for the city they are in.

Anyone who has ever played music with other musicians knows you don't just bust out "High Falls" on a whim - it's got to be rehearsed. The Allman Brothers music is somewhat complicated when there are that many moving pieces. The Grateful Dead would learn songs on stage (or Bob Weir would teach himself slide) but the Allmans couldn't just drop a deep cut without rehearsing it. As mentioned, Warren and Woody were the ones pushing for mixing it up which is why that started happening in moderation in the mid-1990s, and even more when Warren returned to the band in 2001.


The point on songs like "High Falls" is spot on. I was listening to the original album cut last night as well as a live version. A song like that is not a typical 3 to 5 minute stage song that falls along the lines of (example - verse, verse, chorus, solo, bridge, chorus, fade). "High Falls" is a reasonably complicated tune with the buildups, extended solos, dynamics, and timing changes. It would be a disaster w/out a good bit of rehearsing. Some of the more 3 chord blues & related AAB tunes & covers are much easier to throw into a setlist with minimal effort.




so go ask a bunch of drunk, drugged out guys to get motivated and rehearse and see how well that goes


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 05:14 PM

quote:
so go ask a bunch of drunk, drugged out guys to get motivated and rehearse and see how well that goes

I really think you are over-estimating the amount of substance abuse, or at least the timing of it. These guys were still professional musicians who got together to rehearse and played shows without being completely strung out. There might be a few stories about Gregg or Dickey being too sauced on stage, but those are the rare, unlistenable shows because the wheels came off on songs they knew (Gregg in '75-76, Dickey in the very late 1990s/2000). Most of those legendary incidents occurred off stage. You can't play Allman Brothers songs well together on stage consistently "drunk, drugged out".

[Edited on 8/8/2019 by porkchopbob]


matt05 - 8/8/2019 at 05:29 PM

quote:
quote:
so go ask a bunch of drunk, drugged out guys to get motivated and rehearse and see how well that goes

I really think you are over-estimating the amount of substance abuse, or at least the timing of it. These guys were still professional musicians who got together to rehearse and played shows without being completely strung out. There might be a few stories about Gregg or Dickey being too sauced on stage, but those are the rare, unlistenable shows because the wheels came off on songs they knew (Gregg in '75-76, Dickey in the very late 1990s/2000). Most of those legendary incidents occurred off stage. You can't play Allman Brothers songs well together on stage consistently "drunk, drugged out".

[Edited on 8/8/2019 by porkchopbob]



you don't rehearse on stage. you rehearse usually before a tour starts and that's been my point the entire time. how much time were they going to devote before a tour starting to running through stuff when that's probably when they were trying to get themselves tightened up from drugs/drinking.


that being said no one knows how much these guys were or weren't doing and I doubt during tours in the 70's and prior to 1995 they spent a lot of their free time clean and sober and wanting to rehearse to add more songs to a tour that was already ongoing


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 06:05 PM

quote:
you don't rehearse on stage. you rehearse usually before a tour starts and that's been my point the entire time. how much time were they going to devote before a tour starting to running through stuff when that's probably when they were trying to get themselves tightened up from drugs/drinking.


I never said they rehearsed on stage, I said the opposite actually. But they still got together to rehearse before tours, and work up completely new tunes. They went to work, and every rehearsal story I've heard (mostly from the early-late 1990s) that work was taken pretty seriously. Remember, these guys had plenty of time away from music to do whatever, but music was their focus.

I think you are assuming a lot regarding their creative focus and drug habits. Remember, they were adding new material 1990-94 (even in 79-81) to their repertoire, it was only after fresh material dried up that the set lists became more consistent. So if you think they were wood-shedding "Nobody Knows" completely inebriated and that's why they didn't dust off "Louisiana Lou", you're very probably mistaken. They actually did dust off some songs during that era - "Ain't Wasting Time No More" in 1995, "High Falls" in 1997, "Please Call Home" in 1999, and it was a big deal. But it was only because they didn't have much new material (aside from some "in progress" Dickey tunes).


BIGV - 8/8/2019 at 06:10 PM

quote:
I'm just saying how much rehearsing were they going to do really


Boom!.....Look at Gregg's acoustic performances on TV guest spots. "Midnight Rider" & "Melissa" were played 95% of the time. How many of us would have loved to seen other acoustic gems played?...Listen to his Hammond solos....The set-lists stayed relatively unchanged in Dickey's later years (I believe) because of this very point, they didn't want to put in the work. Listen to the "Win, Lose or Draw" recording, a good example of "stardom" coming home to roost...


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 06:20 PM

quote:
quote:
I'm just saying how much rehearsing were they going to do really


How many of us would have loved to seen other acoustic gems played?


Didn't you ask how many casual fans "Mountain Jam" chased away, but now you want to hear "Multi-Colored Lady"? So which is it?

Also, remember they were breaking in Jack and Oteil and Derek in the late 1990s. That begs perfecting consistent material, even if consistent set lists was kind of what they had always done (except for all of the new material they were adding during the first half of the 1990s of course).


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 06:22 PM

quote:
Look at Gregg's acoustic performances on TV guest spots. "Midnight Rider" & "Melissa" were played 95% of the time.


Also, remember, a lot of these performances were on cable. Most of us never saw these until they popped up on Youtube. I got my VCR ready ever time they were on Leno, Carson, or Letterman, and I still had never seen most of these acoustic performances. Naturally Gregg was going to play to the masses rather than an obscure solo tune.


BIGV - 8/8/2019 at 06:27 PM

quote:
Didn't you ask how many casual fans "Mountain Jam" chased away, but now you want to hear "Multi-Colored Lady"? So which is it?


Fair question and my response is, both. The casual ABB fan is turned off by "Jamming" and most concert goers are there for one reason, to sing along with the songs they know. Most concerts are packed with patrons who love vocals.....I can't tell you how many times in the 90s I heard people behind me, next to me ask, "When are they gonna play Ramblin' Man"?


BIGV - 8/8/2019 at 06:31 PM

quote:
quote:
Look at Gregg's acoustic performances on TV guest spots. "Midnight Rider" & "Melissa" were played 95% of the time.


Also, remember, a lot of these performances were on cable. Most of us never saw these until they popped up on Youtube. I got my VCR ready ever time they were on Leno, Carson, or Letterman, and I still had never seen most of these acoustic performances. Naturally Gregg was going to play to the masses rather than an obscure solo tune.


Neil Young
Bod Dylan...
...and countless others always reached into their "Bag of tricks" to play to their fan base....If you knew the songs, you played them, it promoted, sold the new stuff and your brand.


jparadise - 8/8/2019 at 06:37 PM

quote:
Don't forget the influence of the internet.



DING DING DING!!! Winner.


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 06:41 PM

quote:
Neil Young
Bod Dylan...
...and countless others always reached into their "Bag of tricks" to play to their fan base....If you knew the songs, you played them, it promoted, sold the new stuff and your brand.


Both Neil Young and Bob Dylan have a lot more generally known songs, and also appeared on TV a lot more. Gregg had a few more guest spots during the last 10 years of his life and was able to play a more varied set like "These Days" etc. Chalk it up to sample size.


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 06:46 PM

quote:
Most concerts are packed with patrons who love vocals.....I can't tell you how many times in the 90s I heard people behind me, next to me ask, "When are they gonna play Ramblin' Man"?

Maybe a small handful are the most vocal in the audience, but in my experience they are usually told to shut it by the rest of the Allman Brothers fans around them who are waiting for a 20 minute "Whipping Post" or "Jessica". But I guess maybe that's why the ABB began to skip the West Coast


matt05 - 8/8/2019 at 07:32 PM

quote:
quote:
you don't rehearse on stage. you rehearse usually before a tour starts and that's been my point the entire time. how much time were they going to devote before a tour starting to running through stuff when that's probably when they were trying to get themselves tightened up from drugs/drinking.


I never said they rehearsed on stage, I said the opposite actually. But they still got together to rehearse before tours, and work up completely new tunes. They went to work, and every rehearsal story I've heard (mostly from the early-late 1990s) that work was taken pretty seriously. Remember, these guys had plenty of time away from music to do whatever, but music was their focus.

I think you are assuming a lot regarding their creative focus and drug habits. Remember, they were adding new material 1990-94 (even in 79-81) to their repertoire, it was only after fresh material dried up that the set lists became more consistent. So if you think they were wood-shedding "Nobody Knows" completely inebriated and that's why they didn't dust off "Louisiana Lou", you're very probably mistaken. They actually did dust off some songs during that era - "Ain't Wasting Time No More" in 1995, "High Falls" in 1997, "Please Call Home" in 1999, and it was a big deal. But it was only because they didn't have much new material (aside from some "in progress" Dickey tunes).


they dusted off a lot more than that during those years.


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 07:46 PM

quote:
they dusted off a lot more than that during those years.

Yes, those were just a couple major examples that were a big enough deal to make the front page of the old HTN site. Something that couldn't have been done without some focused, pre-tour rehearsal.


MartinD28 - 8/8/2019 at 08:53 PM

quote:
quote:
Most concerts are packed with patrons who love vocals.....I can't tell you how many times in the 90s I heard people behind me, next to me ask, "When are they gonna play Ramblin' Man"?

Maybe a small handful are the most vocal in the audience, but in my experience they are usually told to shut it by the rest of the Allman Brothers fans around them who are waiting for a 20 minute "Whipping Post" or "Jessica". But I guess maybe that's why the ABB began to skip the West Coast


Let's face it. An ABB concert is not for casual fans. I saw tons of ABB concerts, and the far far majority of the fans I witnessed were there for the music, the jams, & the experience. This experience is not like going to a Three Dog Night concert where the crowd likes to do singalongs or listen to top 40 songs.


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 09:05 PM

quote:
I saw tons of ABB concerts, and the far far majority of the fans I witnessed were there for the music, the jams, & the experience.


I was at a Beacon show and some meathead started booing Warren for singing an Otis Redding song. Everyone within ear shot made it clear he would be body surfed out the freaking door to Shea Stadium if he wanted something to boo.


porkchopbob - 8/8/2019 at 09:09 PM

quote:
This experience is not like going to a Three Dog Night concert where the crowd likes to do singalongs or listen to top 40 songs.

During one of the Allman Brothers' Wanee sets a dude kept singing the wrong lyrics to "Melissa" through out "All My Friends". Those are long days if you don't stay hydrated, folks.


JimSheridan - 8/9/2019 at 12:16 AM

The last time I saw Gregg's band, a meathead a few rows back kept screaming "PLAY SWEET MELISSA, MAN!" My friend next to me, who had been seeing the band since Watkins Glen, closed his eyes and said, "I seem to have gotten seats near this guy all my life."

But my fave was at the Meadows / Xfinity Center in CT in 2006, sitting on the lawn for the DTB/ABB/Petty show, and during the ABB, the stoner behind me asks "Which guy is Duane, man?"


pops42 - 8/9/2019 at 01:26 AM

quote:
The last time I saw Gregg's band, a meathead a few rows back kept screaming "PLAY SWEET MELISSA, MAN!" My friend next to me, who had been seeing the band since Watkins Glen, closed his eyes and said, "I seem to have gotten seats near this guy all my life."

But my fave was at the Meadows / Xfinity Center in CT in 2006, sitting on the lawn for the DTB/ABB/Petty show, and during the ABB, the stoner behind me asks "Which guy is Duane, man?"
Did you answer him?.


blackey - 8/9/2019 at 10:46 AM

"Which guy is Duane man?" That is because the casual fan who has a CD or a few CDs they play at home or in the car most likely has 1969-1979 A Decade of Hits ( over 2 million sold), The Best of the Allman Brothers Band (over 500,000 sold), Beginnings ( the first two albums packaged together, over 700,000 sold), At Fillmore East ( over 1 million sold), Eat A Peach (over 2 million sold) or Brothers and Sisters ( over 4 million sold and they think Duane is on it too). For someone who was only in the band from 1969 to 1971, Duane Allman casts a long shadow and left an enormous legacy.

When one hears the Brothers on the radio, often it's a track Duane is on to this day.

Let me ask you...have you ever heard a lead guitar solo by ANY guitar player ever in the ABB including Jimmy Herring that matches the power and energy of Duane on Elizabeth Reed on Fillmore East? Anything that equals it?


adhill58 - 8/9/2019 at 12:17 PM

Casual fans are at best a necessary evil, and it is unfortunate that the band had to be aware of / cater to some of what has been discussed above. I know exactly why I went to ABB shows, and it wasn't to see Midnight Rider or Melissa every time. It's hard to make me forget what planet I am on in a three minute song.

I guess my point is: "If you have a short attention span, maybe an ABB show isn't for you."


matt05 - 8/9/2019 at 12:19 PM

quote:
"Which guy is Duane man?" That is because the casual fan who has a CD or a few CDs they play at home or in the car most likely has 1969-1979 A Decade of Hits ( over 2 million sold), The Best of the Allman Brothers Band (over 500,000 sold), Beginnings ( the first two albums packaged together, over 700,000 sold), At Fillmore East ( over 1 million sold), Eat A Peach (over 2 million sold) or Brothers and Sisters ( over 4 million sold and they think Duane is on it too). For someone who was only in the band from 1969 to 1971, Duane Allman casts a long shadow and left an enormous legacy.

When one hears the Brothers on the radio, often it's a track Duane is on to this day.

Let me ask you...have you ever heard a lead guitar solo by ANY guitar player ever in the ABB including Jimmy Herring that matches the power and energy of Duane on Elizabeth Reed on Fillmore East? Anything that equals it?




pretty much agree. either the casual fan owns a release that features duane and the original lineup or has heard a track that features betts on lead vocals. going to see them after 2000 live some fans who don't keep up or are wasted/stoned probably think either duane or betts were still in the band . for instance my dad is a casual ABB fan and we went to see dickey betts solo around 2003-2005, can't recall the exact year. my dad didn't know betts was out of the ABB. he asked "is he just doing this during down time from the ABB?". not that I blame him as he saw the ABB 1 time and that was in the 70's and other than fillmore east and a hits collection never owned anything else by them or kept up with them or saw them again live. he knew just 1 ABB that was recorded after the 70's and that was the tune "seven turns" but after I played him a few other epic years singles he faintly recalled hearing them on the radio or mtv.

[Edited on 8/9/2019 by matt05]


jszfunk - 8/10/2019 at 06:08 AM

quote:
Casual fans are at best a necessary evil, and it is unfortunate that the band had to be aware of / cater to some of what has been discussed above. I know exactly why I went to ABB shows, and it wasn't to see Midnight Rider or Melissa every time. It's hard to make me forget what planet I am on in a three minute song.

I guess my point is: "If you have a short attention span, maybe an ABB show isn't for you."


Nice post....right there with you.

It would be interesting to see a poll of people that attended ABB shows ,oh lets say over the last 10-12 yrs, that are casual to the hardcore. My guess it's gonna lean more towards the hardcore.

I remember ,I think it was maybe 2004 or 06, I was at an ABB show and a few guys came down by me about half way through the show. It looked like they just walked off the golf course and had a few drinks.
One leaned over and ask me which one was Dickey Betts. Could not resist, and pointed to Otiel.

Some bands for the last few decades is all they play are hits that cater to a certain demographic in the crowd which are probably the majority.

Here is an example.
I enjoy John Mellencamp live, but he is so much more than his 80's hits, and that is a good part of his setlist.
We went and saw him a few months ago....same old show. Really was not expecting anything different ,but anyways. Probably won't be back to see him for awhile. I feel some of his strongest material is from the last 12-15 yrs. Would kill to hear a show of that stuff.....but it ain't gonna happen.

Govt Mule? Probably no such thing as a casual fan out there.

On the topic of setlists ,casual ,and hardcore fans.....
I am a huge Deep Purple and UFO fan. Maybe at one time they could have been considered a band that would play the classics ,hits for the most part and that would cater to the majority of the crowd which probably were the casual fan years ago.

I doubt there are any casual fans going to see those two bands in this current era . I think they have gotten a little better with their setlists as far as mixing in different songs. But for awhile, I was thinking why?? Why the same old material? I doubt they are winning new fans at this point, so why not go more deep,rotate some of those deep gems in for the hardcore folks? I would be thrilled to death of they would drop in at least 3-5 deep ones. I won't be going to the beer stand at that point and I am sure others won't be either.

I remember attending many ABB shows in the early to mid 90's..Warren and Woody era. All were great, no doubt but the sets were getting pretty repeatitive. In 1997 I was them with Jack and Otiel and during that show in Indy and there 2-3 songs that I have not heard in concert before or it had been awhile and it was a treat.


matt05 - 8/10/2019 at 12:12 PM

quote:
quote:
Casual fans are at best a necessary evil, and it is unfortunate that the band had to be aware of / cater to some of what has been discussed above. I know exactly why I went to ABB shows, and it wasn't to see Midnight Rider or Melissa every time. It's hard to make me forget what planet I am on in a three minute song.

I guess my point is: "If you have a short attention span, maybe an ABB show isn't for you."


Nice post....right there with you.

It would be interesting to see a poll of people that attended ABB shows ,oh lets say over the last 10-12 yrs, that are casual to the hardcore. My guess it's gonna lean more towards the hardcore.

I remember ,I think it was maybe 2004 or 06, I was at an ABB show and a few guys came down by me about half way through the show. It looked like they just walked off the golf course and had a few drinks.
One leaned over and ask me which one was Dickey Betts. Could not resist, and pointed to Otiel.

Some bands for the last few decades is all they play are hits that cater to a certain demographic in the crowd which are probably the majority.

Here is an example.
I enjoy John Mellencamp live, but he is so much more than his 80's hits, and that is a good part of his setlist.
We went and saw him a few months ago....same old show. Really was not expecting anything different ,but anyways. Probably won't be back to see him for awhile. I feel some of his strongest material is from the last 12-15 yrs. Would kill to hear a show of that stuff.....but it ain't gonna happen.

Govt Mule? Probably no such thing as a casual fan out there.

On the topic of setlists ,casual ,and hardcore fans.....
I am a huge Deep Purple and UFO fan. Maybe at one time they could have been considered a band that would play the classics ,hits for the most part and that would cater to the majority of the crowd which probably were the casual fan years ago.

I doubt there are any casual fans going to see those two bands in this current era . I think they have gotten a little better with their setlists as far as mixing in different songs. But for awhile, I was thinking why?? Why the same old material? I doubt they are winning new fans at this point, so why not go more deep,rotate some of those deep gems in for the hardcore folks? I would be thrilled to death of they would drop in at least 3-5 deep ones. I won't be going to the beer stand at that point and I am sure others won't be either.

I remember attending many ABB shows in the early to mid 90's..Warren and Woody era. All were great, no doubt but the sets were getting pretty repeatitive. In 1997 I was them with Jack and Otiel and during that show in Indy and there 2-3 songs that I have not heard in concert before or it had been awhile and it was a treat.




100% agree mellencamp has some of the strongest material of his career the last 20 years. his setlists are rather stale. the same 10 big pre 1990 hits, 2 deeper cuts from pre 2000, 2 random covers and then maybe 4-6 tunes from his 2000-present catalog. even the deeper cuts are becoming stale as it looks like he just rotates in the same 5-6 deeper cuts over the last decade. 2011 is the last time his setlist was not stale

[Edited on 8/10/2019 by matt05]


Stephen - 8/10/2019 at 12:44 PM

quote:
"Which guy is Duane man?" That is because the casual fan who has a CD or a few CDs they play at home or in the car most likely has 1969-1979 A Decade of Hits ( over 2 million sold), The Best of the Allman Brothers Band (over 500,000 sold), Beginnings ( the first two albums packaged together, over 700,000 sold), At Fillmore East ( over 1 million sold), Eat A Peach (over 2 million sold) or Brothers and Sisters ( over 4 million sold and they think Duane is on it too). For someone who was only in the band from 1969 to 1971, Duane Allman casts a long shadow and left an enormous legacy.

When one hears the Brothers on the radio, often it's a track Duane is on to this day.

Let me ask you...have you ever heard a lead guitar solo by ANY guitar player ever in the ABB including Jimmy Herring that matches the power and energy of Duane on Elizabeth Reed on Fillmore East? Anything that equals it?


Good post as always blackey (et al) , and the 1975 2-LP best-of release "The Road Goes On Forever" too -- it too was mostly the original band -- seem to recall it outsold both WLorDraw and the WTW, CTO, Dollar Gas 2-LP live comp from the following year

Nope, outside perhaps of 7/17/71 Atlanta, no Liz Reed solo I ever heard Duane play matches AFE's


fender31 - 8/10/2019 at 01:16 PM

I can't imagine the music that would of been created if the original band had at least 10 more years together.


JimSheridan - 8/10/2019 at 01:31 PM

The "greatest hits" heavy setlists of Deep Purple and the Stones has ended my desire to see those bands live after seeing each 6 times.


This is amazing:
"I remember ,I think it was maybe 2004 or 06, I was at an ABB show and a few guys came down by me about half way through the show. It looked like they just walked off the golf course and had a few drinks.
One leaned over and ask me which one was Dickey Betts. Could not resist, and pointed to Otiel."


cmgst34 - 8/10/2019 at 02:57 PM

quote:
so go ask a bunch of drunk, drugged out guys to get motivated and rehearse and see how well that goes


Happened a lot of times, in a lot of genres, over many decades. There has been - and continues to be - a lot of really amazing music, written, rehearsed and played superbly by some really stoned people. Not endorsing the activity, but itís absolutely the case.

And to be clear, a lot of really bad performances by really out of shape players too.

[Edited on 8/10/2019 by cmgst34]


Lee - 8/10/2019 at 03:05 PM

quote:
quote:
Casual fans are at best a necessary evil, and it is unfortunate that the band had to be aware of / cater to some of what has been discussed above. I know exactly why I went to ABB shows, and it wasn't to see Midnight Rider or Melissa every time. It's hard to make me forget what planet I am on in a three minute song.

I guess my point is: "If you have a short attention span, maybe an ABB show isn't for you."


Nice post....right there with you.

It would be interesting to see a poll of people that attended ABB shows ,oh lets say over the last 10-12 yrs, that are casual to the hardcore. My guess it's gonna lean more towards the hardcore.

I remember ,I think it was maybe 2004 or 06, I was at an ABB show and a few guys came down by me about half way through the show. It looked like they just walked off the golf course and had a few drinks.
One leaned over and ask me which one was Dickey Betts. Could not resist, and pointed to Otiel.

Some bands for the last few decades is all they play are hits that cater to a certain demographic in the crowd which are probably the majority.

Here is an example.
I enjoy John Mellencamp live, but he is so much more than his 80's hits, and that is a good part of his setlist.
We went and saw him a few months ago....same old show. Really was not expecting anything different ,but anyways. Probably won't be back to see him for awhile. I feel some of his strongest material is from the last 12-15 yrs. Would kill to hear a show of that stuff.....but it ain't gonna happen.

Govt Mule? Probably no such thing as a casual fan out there.

On the topic of setlists ,casual ,and hardcore fans.....
I am a huge Deep Purple and UFO fan. Maybe at one time they could have been considered a band that would play the classics ,hits for the most part and that would cater to the majority of the crowd which probably were the casual fan years ago.

I doubt there are any casual fans going to see those two bands in this current era . I think they have gotten a little better with their setlists as far as mixing in different songs. But for awhile, I was thinking why?? Why the same old material? I doubt they are winning new fans at this point, so why not go more deep,rotate some of those deep gems in for the hardcore folks? I would be thrilled to death of they would drop in at least 3-5 deep ones. I won't be going to the beer stand at that point and I am sure others won't be either.

I remember attending many ABB shows in the early to mid 90's..Warren and Woody era. All were great, no doubt but the sets were getting pretty repeatitive. In 1997 I was them with Jack and Otiel and during that show in Indy and there 2-3 songs that I have not heard in concert before or it had been awhile and it was a treat.


Totally agree with you about Mule. It took me a bit to get them but I have loved them for years. Don't think there are too many casual fans.

Regarding UFO, I've never heard of them. What are their classics?


matt05 - 8/10/2019 at 03:25 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Casual fans are at best a necessary evil, and it is unfortunate that the band had to be aware of / cater to some of what has been discussed above. I know exactly why I went to ABB shows, and it wasn't to see Midnight Rider or Melissa every time. It's hard to make me forget what planet I am on in a three minute song.

I guess my point is: "If you have a short attention span, maybe an ABB show isn't for you."


Nice post....right there with you.

It would be interesting to see a poll of people that attended ABB shows ,oh lets say over the last 10-12 yrs, that are casual to the hardcore. My guess it's gonna lean more towards the hardcore.

I remember ,I think it was maybe 2004 or 06, I was at an ABB show and a few guys came down by me about half way through the show. It looked like they just walked off the golf course and had a few drinks.
One leaned over and ask me which one was Dickey Betts. Could not resist, and pointed to Otiel.

Some bands for the last few decades is all they play are hits that cater to a certain demographic in the crowd which are probably the majority.

Here is an example.
I enjoy John Mellencamp live, but he is so much more than his 80's hits, and that is a good part of his setlist.
We went and saw him a few months ago....same old show. Really was not expecting anything different ,but anyways. Probably won't be back to see him for awhile. I feel some of his strongest material is from the last 12-15 yrs. Would kill to hear a show of that stuff.....but it ain't gonna happen.

Govt Mule? Probably no such thing as a casual fan out there.

On the topic of setlists ,casual ,and hardcore fans.....
I am a huge Deep Purple and UFO fan. Maybe at one time they could have been considered a band that would play the classics ,hits for the most part and that would cater to the majority of the crowd which probably were the casual fan years ago.

I doubt there are any casual fans going to see those two bands in this current era . I think they have gotten a little better with their setlists as far as mixing in different songs. But for awhile, I was thinking why?? Why the same old material? I doubt they are winning new fans at this point, so why not go more deep,rotate some of those deep gems in for the hardcore folks? I would be thrilled to death of they would drop in at least 3-5 deep ones. I won't be going to the beer stand at that point and I am sure others won't be either.

I remember attending many ABB shows in the early to mid 90's..Warren and Woody era. All were great, no doubt but the sets were getting pretty repeatitive. In 1997 I was them with Jack and Otiel and during that show in Indy and there 2-3 songs that I have not heard in concert before or it had been awhile and it was a treat.


Totally agree with you about Mule. It took me a bit to get them but I have loved them for years. Don't think there are too many casual fans.

Regarding UFO, I've never heard of them. What are their classics?



I know these are highly well known tunes by UFO
lights out
doctor doctor
rock bottom
too hot to handle


Lee - 8/10/2019 at 07:54 PM

No idea. Those are classics? Were they played on the radio?


matt05 - 8/11/2019 at 12:27 AM

quote:
No idea. Those are classics? Were they played on the radio?


those are probably their best known tunes unless i'm missing something. they are played every now and again on radio. they are a band more like uriah heep who never really got a lot of radio play but had a big fanbase based on touring


Lee - 8/11/2019 at 11:52 AM

Huh. I'll have to give them a few spins. I Googled them and some of the associated acts are Michael Schenker and the Scorpions so this gives me a point of reference as to their sound I think.


matt05 - 8/11/2019 at 01:14 PM

quote:
Huh. I'll have to give them a few spins. I Googled them and some of the associated acts are Michael Schenker and the Scorpions so this gives me a point of reference as to their sound I think.




not shocking as schenker was the guitar player for UFO most of the 1970's


DOVETAIL - 8/11/2019 at 09:11 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Casual fans are at best a necessary evil, and it is unfortunate that the band had to be aware of / cater to some of what has been discussed above. I know exactly why I went to ABB shows, and it wasn't to see Midnight Rider or Melissa every time. It's hard to make me forget what planet I am on in a three minute song.

I guess my point is: "If you have a short attention span, maybe an ABB show isn't for you."


Nice post....right there with you.

It would be interesting to see a poll of people that attended ABB shows ,oh lets say over the last 10-12 yrs, that are casual to the hardcore. My guess it's gonna lean more towards the hardcore.

I remember ,I think it was maybe 2004 or 06, I was at an ABB show and a few guys came down by me about half way through the show. It looked like they just walked off the golf course and had a few drinks.
One leaned over and ask me which one was Dickey Betts. Could not resist, and pointed to Otiel.

Some bands for the last few decades is all they play are hits that cater to a certain demographic in the crowd which are probably the majority.

Here is an example.
I enjoy John Mellencamp live, but he is so much more than his 80's hits, and that is a good part of his setlist.
We went and saw him a few months ago....same old show. Really was not expecting anything different ,but anyways. Probably won't be back to see him for awhile. I feel some of his strongest material is from the last 12-15 yrs. Would kill to hear a show of that stuff.....but it ain't gonna happen.

Govt Mule? Probably no such thing as a casual fan out there.

On the topic of setlists ,casual ,and hardcore fans.....
I am a huge Deep Purple and UFO fan. Maybe at one time they could have been considered a band that would play the classics ,hits for the most part and that would cater to the majority of the crowd which probably were the casual fan years ago.

I doubt there are any casual fans going to see those two bands in this current era . I think they have gotten a little better with their setlists as far as mixing in different songs. But for awhile, I was thinking why?? Why the same old material? I doubt they are winning new fans at this point, so why not go more deep,rotate some of those deep gems in for the hardcore folks? I would be thrilled to death of they would drop in at least 3-5 deep ones. I won't be going to the beer stand at that point and I am sure others won't be either.

I remember attending many ABB shows in the early to mid 90's..Warren and Woody era. All were great, no doubt but the sets were getting pretty repeatitive. In 1997 I was them with Jack and Otiel and during that show in Indy and there 2-3 songs that I have not heard in concert before or it had been awhile and it was a treat.


Totally agree with you about Mule. It took me a bit to get them but I have loved them for years. Don't think there are too many casual fans.

Regarding UFO, I've never heard of them. What are their classics?


Gov't Mule has lost the spark over the last 4 or 5ve years----since Farmer passed!?!?!?---and latest live set proves it.


adhill58 - 8/12/2019 at 01:38 PM

quote:
setlists had become diverse with Dickey in the band in the back half of the 1990s too. And even before that they mixed it up some.

The late 1990s ABB would rotate 3 setlists (with some minor variations) and things like that. Warren took it to a whole other level upon his return to the band.


It would be pretty boring going 45 years with very little setlist diversity. In my opinion, Warren saved the band from itself... twice.


matt05 - 8/12/2019 at 02:46 PM

quote:
quote:
setlists had become diverse with Dickey in the band in the back half of the 1990s too. And even before that they mixed it up some.

The late 1990s ABB would rotate 3 setlists (with some minor variations) and things like that. Warren took it to a whole other level upon his return to the band.


It would be pretty boring going 45 years with very little setlist diversity. In my opinion, Warren saved the band from itself... twice.


i'm not even sure what that means. the setlist in 1979 was not the same at all as the one in 1970. warren wasn't there then.


hotlantatim - 8/12/2019 at 03:22 PM

quote:
No idea. Those are classics? Were they played on the radio?


Lee - Too Hot to Handle got FM album radio play for a few years. Maybe Lights Out a little Not really any of the others but they are well known in the way certain ABB songs are considered classics that weren't really hits. They got as popular as a headliner of large 4000 seat type theatres by 1979 in major markets in the US. They had another bounce when they got some early MTV airplay in 1982ish and were a regular opener on big tours then. They are more influential than they were general popular.

Go to the Strangers In the Night live album version of those tracks matt05 suggested and see if it's your thing.


adhill58 - 8/12/2019 at 08:21 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
setlists had become diverse with Dickey in the band in the back half of the 1990s too. And even before that they mixed it up some.

The late 1990s ABB would rotate 3 setlists (with some minor variations) and things like that. Warren took it to a whole other level upon his return to the band.


It would be pretty boring going 45 years with very little setlist diversity. In my opinion, Warren saved the band from itself... twice.


i'm not even sure what that means. the setlist in 1979 was not the same at all as the one in 1970. warren wasn't there then.


I guess what I mean is the wheels fell off after "Win, Lose or Draw" and the 1979 comeback only lasted 3 or 4 years and included their two worst albums by far. The original members were not necessarily great a keeping things in a functional situation. Things finally got back on track in 1989 going forward with some new members that worked out - Warren, Woody, and then Marc. Then, when Warren came back in '01, they went from a band with a 25 song repertoire to a band with a 75 song repertoire. All of the later additions deserve A LOT of credit for helping to keep the ABB going (Oteil, Jack, Derek, Jimmy), but Warren probably had the biggest footprint. That's all.


Jonesy - 8/12/2019 at 08:30 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
setlists had become diverse with Dickey in the band in the back half of the 1990s too. And even before that they mixed it up some.

The late 1990s ABB would rotate 3 setlists (with some minor variations) and things like that. Warren took it to a whole other level upon his return to the band.


It would be pretty boring going 45 years with very little setlist diversity. In my opinion, Warren saved the band from itself... twice.


i'm not even sure what that means. the setlist in 1979 was not the same at all as the one in 1970. warren wasn't there then.


I guess what I mean is the wheels fell off after "Win, Lose or Draw" and the 1979 comeback only lasted 3 or 4 years and included their two worst albums by far. The original members were not necessarily great a keeping things in a functional situation. Things finally got back on track in 1989 going forward with some new members that worked out - Warren, Woody, and then Marc. Then, when Warren came back in '01, they went from a band with a 25 song repertoire to a band with a 75 song repertoire. All of the later additions deserve A LOT of credit for helping to keep the ABB going (Oteil, Jack, Derek, Jimmy), but Warren probably had the biggest footprint. That's all.


Not trying to beat this to death but....new tunes will add to a setlist. The ABB put out new material after 1989 (that was quite good) and Dickey Betts was the author of some of the best of it (Seven Turns, BWIAB, etc). So it was a natural. Warren was a great add- no doubt about it. But he did not save the band. He did help quite a bit after Betts was ousted; however i was not impressed with a lot of Haynes material for the ABB. I just thought it suited the Mule.

Betts caught a lot of unnecessary heat about the setlist thing. Shucks, even the good ole' Grateful Dead got pretty predictable after 1976 (Just look at the 1977 setlists).


Lee - 8/12/2019 at 08:36 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
setlists had become diverse with Dickey in the band in the back half of the 1990s too. And even before that they mixed it up some.

The late 1990s ABB would rotate 3 setlists (with some minor variations) and things like that. Warren took it to a whole other level upon his return to the band.


It would be pretty boring going 45 years with very little setlist diversity. In my opinion, Warren saved the band from itself... twice.


i'm not even sure what that means. the setlist in 1979 was not the same at all as the one in 1970. warren wasn't there then.


I guess what I mean is the wheels fell off after "Win, Lose or Draw" and the 1979 comeback only lasted 3 or 4 years and included their two worst albums by far. The original members were not necessarily great a keeping things in a functional situation. Things finally got back on track in 1989 going forward with some new members that worked out - Warren, Woody, and then Marc. Then, when Warren came back in '01, they went from a band with a 25 song repertoire to a band with a 75 song repertoire. All of the later additions deserve A LOT of credit for helping to keep the ABB going (Oteil, Jack, Derek, Jimmy), but Warren probably had the biggest footprint. That's all.


Agreed. I doubt they would have lasted as long as they did without Warren. Nothing against the other guys you mentioned but in my opinion it was mostly Warren.


Lee - 8/12/2019 at 08:44 PM

quote:


Not trying to beat this to death but....new tunes will add to a setlist. The ABB put out new material after 1989 (that was quite good) and Dickey Betts was the author of some of the best of it (Seven Turns, BWIAB, etc). So it was a natural. Warren was a great add- no doubt about it. But he did not save the band. He did help quite a bit after Betts was ousted; however i was not impressed with a lot of Haynes material for the ABB. I just thought it suited the Mule.

Betts caught a lot of unnecessary heat about the setlist thing. Shucks, even the good ole' Grateful Dead got pretty predictable after 1976 (Just look at the 1977 setlists).



I can understand that but I have to give Warren credit for (at least to me) deciding which material suited the ABB and which was more appropriate for Mule.


matt05 - 8/12/2019 at 09:14 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
setlists had become diverse with Dickey in the band in the back half of the 1990s too. And even before that they mixed it up some.

The late 1990s ABB would rotate 3 setlists (with some minor variations) and things like that. Warren took it to a whole other level upon his return to the band.


It would be pretty boring going 45 years with very little setlist diversity. In my opinion, Warren saved the band from itself... twice.


i'm not even sure what that means. the setlist in 1979 was not the same at all as the one in 1970. warren wasn't there then.


I guess what I mean is the wheels fell off after "Win, Lose or Draw" and the 1979 comeback only lasted 3 or 4 years and included their two worst albums by far. The original members were not necessarily great a keeping things in a functional situation. Things finally got back on track in 1989 going forward with some new members that worked out - Warren, Woody, and then Marc. Then, when Warren came back in '01, they went from a band with a 25 song repertoire to a band with a 75 song repertoire. All of the later additions deserve A LOT of credit for helping to keep the ABB going (Oteil, Jack, Derek, Jimmy), but Warren probably had the biggest footprint. That's all.



i posted earlier from 1995-2000 with dickey the band was up to about a 40 song list of tunes they were playing to pool from. the 25 song repertoire ended in the early 80's. from 1989-1995 they were up to around 30 and then 1995-2000 about 40. then warren came back and they went to about 60 by 2003 which outside of the bands new material most of the other stuff was covers and not deep cuts from the band.


tori - 8/13/2019 at 12:23 AM

"i posted earlier from 1995-2000 with dickey the band was up to about a 40 song list of tunes they were playing to pool from. the 25 song repertoire ended in the early 80's. from 1989-1995 they were up to around 30 and then 1995-2000 about 40. then warren came back and they went to about 60 by 2003 which outside of the bands new material most of the other stuff was covers and not deep cuts from the band. "

True but the band after 2003 was much more improvisational, adding fresh segments to songs like NLTRW, BHW, and Rockin Horse, interesting guests, and songs associated with Duane (D&D material, Johnny Jenkins, etc.). 1996 was the high water mark for improvisation for the ABB in the 1990s. Set lists became quite stale 1997-99 which to a certain degree is understandable because of line up changes. Still a 5 min NLTRW as the closer every night became quite tedious.


adhill58 - 8/13/2019 at 01:14 PM

quote:
"i posted earlier from 1995-2000 with dickey the band was up to about a 40 song list of tunes they were playing to pool from. the 25 song repertoire ended in the early 80's. from 1989-1995 they were up to around 30 and then 1995-2000 about 40. then warren came back and they went to about 60 by 2003 which outside of the bands new material most of the other stuff was covers and not deep cuts from the band. "

True but the band after 2003 was much more improvisational, adding fresh segments to songs like NLTRW, BHW, and Rockin Horse, interesting guests, and songs associated with Duane (D&D material, Johnny Jenkins, etc.). 1996 was the high water mark for improvisation for the ABB in the 1990s. Set lists became quite stale 1997-99 which to a certain degree is understandable because of line up changes. Still a 5 min NLTRW as the closer every night became quite tedious.


After 2001, it was pretty hard to do deep-cuts from the early albums through "Brothers and Sisters" because all of those songs were in regular rotation except Please Call Home, Pony Boy, and Jelly Jelly. Not much between "Brothers and Sisters" and "Seven Turns" was considered worth bringing back out (except Can't Lose What You Never Had which is a cover). Some of the 1989 - 1994 stuff was brought out every now and again ( ...Devil's Sea, Kind of Bird, End of the Line, Good Clean Fun) but never seemed to stick around. I feel like Gambler's Roll fit the deep-cut mold. The March 2014 Beacon Run had some deep-cut action going on even Oteil singing Seven Turns. It is too bad that some of the other Dickey songs were gone like High Falls and Back Where It All Begins.

I agree that some of the covers were a little out of place (Dazed and Confused, for instance), but I think it was a great idea to start doing the Duane-related covers... same with the Otis Redding covers due to Jaimoe having toured with him. Doing Blues covers is literally what the band has always done and most of the ones they brought in during the last ten years or so were awesome.

For me, not knowing what is coming next at a show adds to the fun. The last line-up did the best job of that.


porkchopbob - 8/13/2019 at 01:57 PM

quote:
After 2001, it was pretty hard to do deep-cuts from the early albums through "Brothers and Sisters" because all of those songs were in regular rotation except Please Call Home, Pony Boy, and Jelly Jelly. Not much between "Brothers and Sisters" and "Seven Turns" was considered worth bringing back out (except Can't Lose What You Never Had which is a cover). Some of the 1989 - 1994 stuff was brought out every now and again ( ...Devil's Sea, Kind of Bird, End of the Line, Good Clean Fun) but never seemed to stick around. I feel like Gambler's Roll fit the deep-cut mold. The March 2014 Beacon Run had some deep-cut action going on even Oteil singing Seven Turns. It is too bad that some of the other Dickey songs were gone like High Falls and Back Where It All Begins.

I agree that some of the covers were a little out of place (Dazed and Confused, for instance), but I think it was a great idea to start doing the Duane-related covers... same with the Otis Redding covers due to Jaimoe having toured with him. Doing Blues covers is literally what the band has always done and most of the ones they brought in during the last ten years or so were awesome.

For me, not knowing what is coming next at a show adds to the fun. The last line-up did the best job of that.


The Fox Box shows were what got me back into the band after taking some time off after 2000. I recall seeing "Gilded Splinters" on the set list and just having to hear Butch pounding out that beat again. Pretty sure they played every song off of their first 4 albums on that run in some form. And I agree regarding the blues covers - the "Forty Four Blues" from the Fox Box is one of my favorite moments from those shows.

Some people complained about the more popular covers, but I thought they mostly had a purpose and fit right in - "Into the Mystic" was reportedly Bill Graham's favorite song and fit but not sure why "And It Stoned Me" was also in the rotation. The Aretha version of "The Weight" always fit, but not sure why The Band's "Dixie" was played other than the Allman Brothers are from the south (though it did sound good with horns and Gregg singing it at the Beacon). Agree with "Dazed & Confused", I know they briefly quoted it in some 1970-era versions of "Mountain Jam", but it always sounded out of place when they worked up the whole song. "Blind Willie McTell" was a great choice too.


adhill58 - 8/13/2019 at 02:13 PM

quote:
quote:
After 2001, it was pretty hard to do deep-cuts from the early albums through "Brothers and Sisters" because all of those songs were in regular rotation except Please Call Home, Pony Boy, and Jelly Jelly. Not much between "Brothers and Sisters" and "Seven Turns" was considered worth bringing back out (except Can't Lose What You Never Had which is a cover). Some of the 1989 - 1994 stuff was brought out every now and again ( ...Devil's Sea, Kind of Bird, End of the Line, Good Clean Fun) but never seemed to stick around. I feel like Gambler's Roll fit the deep-cut mold. The March 2014 Beacon Run had some deep-cut action going on even Oteil singing Seven Turns. It is too bad that some of the other Dickey songs were gone like High Falls and Back Where It All Begins.

I agree that some of the covers were a little out of place (Dazed and Confused, for instance), but I think it was a great idea to start doing the Duane-related covers... same with the Otis Redding covers due to Jaimoe having toured with him. Doing Blues covers is literally what the band has always done and most of the ones they brought in during the last ten years or so were awesome.

For me, not knowing what is coming next at a show adds to the fun. The last line-up did the best job of that.


The Fox Box shows were what got me back into the band after taking some time off after 2000. I recall seeing "Gilded Splinters" on the set list and just having to hear Butch pounding out that beat again. Pretty sure they played every song off of their first 4 albums on that run in some form. And I agree regarding the blues covers - the "Forty Four Blues" from the Fox Box is one of my favorite moments from those shows.

Some people complained about the more popular covers, but I thought they mostly had a purpose and fit right in - "Into the Mystic" was reportedly Bill Graham's favorite song and fit but not sure why "And It Stoned Me" was also in the rotation. The Aretha version of "The Weight" always fit, but not sure why The Band's "Dixie" was played other than the Allman Brothers are from the south (though it did sound good with horns and Gregg singing it at the Beacon). Agree with "Dazed & Confused", I know they briefly quoted it in some 1970-era versions of "Mountain Jam", but it always sounded out of place when they worked up the whole song. "Blind Willie McTell" was a great choice too.


"Blind Willie Mctell" was so good when they did it. "Highway 61", "...Train to Cry", and "Don't Think Twice..." were also pretty awesome. There is less of connection to anything with the ABB, but nobody really needs an excuse to cover Dylan. "Down Along the Cove" had the Duane connection.


jszfunk - 8/13/2019 at 02:54 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Casual fans are at best a necessary evil, and it is unfortunate that the band had to be aware of / cater to some of what has been discussed above. I know exactly why I went to ABB shows, and it wasn't to see Midnight Rider or Melissa every time. It's hard to make me forget what planet I am on in a three minute song.

I guess my point is: "If you have a short attention span, maybe an ABB show isn't for you."


Nice post....right there with you.

It would be interesting to see a poll of people that attended ABB shows ,oh lets say over the last 10-12 yrs, that are casual to the hardcore. My guess it's gonna lean more towards the hardcore.

I remember ,I think it was maybe 2004 or 06, I was at an ABB show and a few guys came down by me about half way through the show. It looked like they just walked off the golf course and had a few drinks.
One leaned over and ask me which one was Dickey Betts. Could not resist, and pointed to Otiel.

Some bands for the last few decades is all they play are hits that cater to a certain demographic in the crowd which are probably the majority.

Here is an example.
I enjoy John Mellencamp live, but he is so much more than his 80's hits, and that is a good part of his setlist.
We went and saw him a few months ago....same old show. Really was not expecting anything different ,but anyways. Probably won't be back to see him for awhile. I feel some of his strongest material is from the last 12-15 yrs. Would kill to hear a show of that stuff.....but it ain't gonna happen.

Govt Mule? Probably no such thing as a casual fan out there.

On the topic of setlists ,casual ,and hardcore fans.....
I am a huge Deep Purple and UFO fan. Maybe at one time they could have been considered a band that would play the classics ,hits for the most part and that would cater to the majority of the crowd which probably were the casual fan years ago.

I doubt there are any casual fans going to see those two bands in this current era . I think they have gotten a little better with their setlists as far as mixing in different songs. But for awhile, I was thinking why?? Why the same old material? I doubt they are winning new fans at this point, so why not go more deep,rotate some of those deep gems in for the hardcore folks? I would be thrilled to death of they would drop in at least 3-5 deep ones. I won't be going to the beer stand at that point and I am sure others won't be either.

I remember attending many ABB shows in the early to mid 90's..Warren and Woody era. All were great, no doubt but the sets were getting pretty repeatitive. In 1997 I was them with Jack and Otiel and during that show in Indy and there 2-3 songs that I have not heard in concert before or it had been awhile and it was a treat.


Totally agree with you about Mule. It took me a bit to get them but I have loved them for years. Don't think there are too many casual fans.

Regarding UFO, I've never heard of them. What are their classics?


What!?!?! You don't know who the mighty UFO!?!? Blasphemy!!!!!

Just kidding Matt and a few others summed them up pretty good.. I am a HUGE fan and can hook you up with about anything and everything them and MSG.

It was mentioned, but Strangers In The Night is highly regarded as one of the best live rock albums out there. That would be a good place to start.

From the Paul Chapman era a good compilation would be Best Of The Rest. His time in the band is looked over , but I like it just as much as the Schenker stuff.

Vinnie Moore is in the band now. They still put out quality material.There last release was two years ago and it was a cover compilation called The Salentino Cuts. I think Phil Moog is very underrated singer and I feel he gives one of his best vocal performance on that cd. They are currently on they're last tour.Phil is calling it a day.

Michael Schenkers 2nd release,MSG, is probably my favorite hard rock albums . That thing is so solid top to bottom, not a bad track. Live At Budokan would be a good one from him to start with.

One of my top UFO tracks
https://youtube.com/watch?v=jwxipYRhou8


matt05 - 8/13/2019 at 05:05 PM

quote:
quote:
"i posted earlier from 1995-2000 with dickey the band was up to about a 40 song list of tunes they were playing to pool from. the 25 song repertoire ended in the early 80's. from 1989-1995 they were up to around 30 and then 1995-2000 about 40. then warren came back and they went to about 60 by 2003 which outside of the bands new material most of the other stuff was covers and not deep cuts from the band. "

True but the band after 2003 was much more improvisational, adding fresh segments to songs like NLTRW, BHW, and Rockin Horse, interesting guests, and songs associated with Duane (D&D material, Johnny Jenkins, etc.). 1996 was the high water mark for improvisation for the ABB in the 1990s. Set lists became quite stale 1997-99 which to a certain degree is understandable because of line up changes. Still a 5 min NLTRW as the closer every night became quite tedious.


After 2001, it was pretty hard to do deep-cuts from the early albums through "Brothers and Sisters" because all of those songs were in regular rotation except Please Call Home, Pony Boy, and Jelly Jelly. Not much between "Brothers and Sisters" and "Seven Turns" was considered worth bringing back out (except Can't Lose What You Never Had which is a cover). Some of the 1989 - 1994 stuff was brought out every now and again ( ...Devil's Sea, Kind of Bird, End of the Line, Good Clean Fun) but never seemed to stick around. I feel like Gambler's Roll fit the deep-cut mold. The March 2014 Beacon Run had some deep-cut action going on even Oteil singing Seven Turns. It is too bad that some of the other Dickey songs were gone like High Falls and Back Where It All Begins.

I agree that some of the covers were a little out of place (Dazed and Confused, for instance), but I think it was a great idea to start doing the Duane-related covers... same with the Otis Redding covers due to Jaimoe having toured with him. Doing Blues covers is literally what the band has always done and most of the ones they brought in during the last ten years or so were awesome.

For me, not knowing what is coming next at a show adds to the fun. The last line-up did the best job of that.





either way i think most people hit the nail on the head that outside of the grateful dead most bands changed very few of the songs in a setlist until the 1990's. the stones, the ABB, etc started rotating setlists in the 90's but prior to that changed very little. even alice cooper who has a show with props and timed out, etc talks about how by the mid 90's fans always ask about changing the setlist and show while a touring is going on


matt05 - 8/13/2019 at 05:07 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Casual fans are at best a necessary evil, and it is unfortunate that the band had to be aware of / cater to some of what has been discussed above. I know exactly why I went to ABB shows, and it wasn't to see Midnight Rider or Melissa every time. It's hard to make me forget what planet I am on in a three minute song.

I guess my point is: "If you have a short attention span, maybe an ABB show isn't for you."


Nice post....right there with you.

It would be interesting to see a poll of people that attended ABB shows ,oh lets say over the last 10-12 yrs, that are casual to the hardcore. My guess it's gonna lean more towards the hardcore.

I remember ,I think it was maybe 2004 or 06, I was at an ABB show and a few guys came down by me about half way through the show. It looked like they just walked off the golf course and had a few drinks.
One leaned over and ask me which one was Dickey Betts. Could not resist, and pointed to Otiel.

Some bands for the last few decades is all they play are hits that cater to a certain demographic in the crowd which are probably the majority.

Here is an example.
I enjoy John Mellencamp live, but he is so much more than his 80's hits, and that is a good part of his setlist.
We went and saw him a few months ago....same old show. Really was not expecting anything different ,but anyways. Probably won't be back to see him for awhile. I feel some of his strongest material is from the last 12-15 yrs. Would kill to hear a show of that stuff.....but it ain't gonna happen.

Govt Mule? Probably no such thing as a casual fan out there.

On the topic of setlists ,casual ,and hardcore fans.....
I am a huge Deep Purple and UFO fan. Maybe at one time they could have been considered a band that would play the classics ,hits for the most part and that would cater to the majority of the crowd which probably were the casual fan years ago.

I doubt there are any casual fans going to see those two bands in this current era . I think they have gotten a little better with their setlists as far as mixing in different songs. But for awhile, I was thinking why?? Why the same old material? I doubt they are winning new fans at this point, so why not go more deep,rotate some of those deep gems in for the hardcore folks? I would be thrilled to death of they would drop in at least 3-5 deep ones. I won't be going to the beer stand at that point and I am sure others won't be either.

I remember attending many ABB shows in the early to mid 90's..Warren and Woody era. All were great, no doubt but the sets were getting pretty repeatitive. In 1997 I was them with Jack and Otiel and during that show in Indy and there 2-3 songs that I have not heard in concert before or it had been awhile and it was a treat.


Totally agree with you about Mule. It took me a bit to get them but I have loved them for years. Don't think there are too many casual fans.

Regarding UFO, I've never heard of them. What are their classics?


What!?!?! You don't know who the mighty UFO!?!? Blasphemy!!!!!

Just kidding Matt and a few others summed them up pretty good.. I am a HUGE fan and can hook you up with about anything and everything them and MSG.

It was mentioned, but Strangers In The Night is highly regarded as one of the best live rock albums out there. That would be a good place to start.

From the Paul Chapman era a good compilation would be Best Of The Rest. His time in the band is looked over , but I like it just as much as the Schenker stuff.

Vinnie Moore is in the band now. They still put out quality material.There last release was two years ago and it was a cover compilation called The Salentino Cuts. I think Phil Moog is very underrated singer and I feel he gives one of his best vocal performance on that cd. They are currently on they're last tour.Phil is calling it a day.

Michael Schenkers 2nd release,MSG, is probably my favorite hard rock albums . That thing is so solid top to bottom, not a bad track. Live At Budokan would be a good one from him to start with.

One of my top UFO tracks
https://youtube.com/watch?v=jwxipYRhou8



they are such an underrated band. it was nice a few weeks ago that UFO was blaring before iron maiden came onstage . sure iron maiden picked them to be over the sound system on purpose


JimSheridan - 8/13/2019 at 06:41 PM

I was reading about UFO on Allmusic today, and one reviewer argued that UFO's Phill Mogg was a clear influence on Iron Maiden's Paul Dianno.


jszfunk - 8/13/2019 at 07:41 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Casual fans are at best a necessary evil, and it is unfortunate that the band had to be aware of / cater to some of what has been discussed above. I know exactly why I went to ABB shows, and it wasn't to see Midnight Rider or Melissa every time. It's hard to make me forget what planet I am on in a three minute song.

I guess my point is: "If you have a short attention span, maybe an ABB show isn't for you."


Nice post....right there with you.

It would be interesting to see a poll of people that attended ABB shows ,oh lets say over the last 10-12 yrs, that are casual to the hardcore. My guess it's gonna lean more towards the hardcore.

I remember ,I think it was maybe 2004 or 06, I was at an ABB show and a few guys came down by me about half way through the show. It looked like they just walked off the golf course and had a few drinks.
One leaned over and ask me which one was Dickey Betts. Could not resist, and pointed to Otiel.

Some bands for the last few decades is all they play are hits that cater to a certain demographic in the crowd which are probably the majority.

Here is an example.
I enjoy John Mellencamp live, but he is so much more than his 80's hits, and that is a good part of his setlist.
We went and saw him a few months ago....same old show. Really was not expecting anything different ,but anyways. Probably won't be back to see him for awhile. I feel some of his strongest material is from the last 12-15 yrs. Would kill to hear a show of that stuff.....but it ain't gonna happen.

Govt Mule? Probably no such thing as a casual fan out there.

On the topic of setlists ,casual ,and hardcore fans.....
I am a huge Deep Purple and UFO fan. Maybe at one time they could have been considered a band that would play the classics ,hits for the most part and that would cater to the majority of the crowd which probably were the casual fan years ago.

I doubt there are any casual fans going to see those two bands in this current era . I think they have gotten a little better with their setlists as far as mixing in different songs. But for awhile, I was thinking why?? Why the same old material? I doubt they are winning new fans at this point, so why not go more deep,rotate some of those deep gems in for the hardcore folks? I would be thrilled to death of they would drop in at least 3-5 deep ones. I won't be going to the beer stand at that point and I am sure others won't be either.

I remember attending many ABB shows in the early to mid 90's..Warren and Woody era. All were great, no doubt but the sets were getting pretty repeatitive. In 1997 I was them with Jack and Otiel and during that show in Indy and there 2-3 songs that I have not heard in concert before or it had been awhile and it was a treat.


Totally agree with you about Mule. It took me a bit to get them but I have loved them for years. Don't think there are too many casual fans.

Regarding UFO, I've never heard of them. What are their classics?


What!?!?! You don't know who the mighty UFO!?!? Blasphemy!!!!!

Just kidding Matt and a few others summed them up pretty good.. I am a HUGE fan and can hook you up with about anything and everything them and MSG.

It was mentioned, but Strangers In The Night is highly regarded as one of the best live rock albums out there. That would be a good place to start.

From the Paul Chapman era a good compilation would be Best Of The Rest. His time in the band is looked over , but I like it just as much as the Schenker stuff.

Vinnie Moore is in the band now. They still put out quality material.There last release was two years ago and it was a cover compilation called The Salentino Cuts. I think Phil Moog is very underrated singer and I feel he gives one of his best vocal performance on that cd. They are currently on they're last tour.Phil is calling it a day.

Michael Schenkers 2nd release,MSG, is probably my favorite hard rock albums . That thing is so solid top to bottom, not a bad track. Live At Budokan would be a good one from him to start with.

One of my top UFO tracks
https://youtube.com/watch?v=jwxipYRhou8



they are such an underrated band. it was nice a few weeks ago that UFO was blaring before iron maiden came onstage . sure iron maiden picked them to be over the sound system on purpose


I think Steve and the band are big fans

Steve Harris On Why Iron Maiden Opens Shows With UFO Music

http://www.vh1.com/video-clips/jlf59m/that-metal-show-steve-harris-on-why-i ron-maiden-opens-shows-with-ufo-music

[Edited on 8/13/2019 by jszfunk]


jszfunk - 8/13/2019 at 07:49 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Casual fans are at best a necessary evil, and it is unfortunate that the band had to be aware of / cater to some of what has been discussed above. I know exactly why I went to ABB shows, and it wasn't to see Midnight Rider or Melissa every time. It's hard to make me forget what planet I am on in a three minute song.

I guess my point is: "If you have a short attention span, maybe an ABB show isn't for you."


Nice post....right there with you.

It would be interesting to see a poll of people that attended ABB shows ,oh lets say over the last 10-12 yrs, that are casual to the hardcore. My guess it's gonna lean more towards the hardcore.

I remember ,I think it was maybe 2004 or 06, I was at an ABB show and a few guys came down by me about half way through the show. It looked like they just walked off the golf course and had a few drinks.
One leaned over and ask me which one was Dickey Betts. Could not resist, and pointed to Otiel.

Some bands for the last few decades is all they play are hits that cater to a certain demographic in the crowd which are probably the majority.

Here is an example.
I enjoy John Mellencamp live, but he is so much more than his 80's hits, and that is a good part of his setlist.
We went and saw him a few months ago....same old show. Really was not expecting anything different ,but anyways. Probably won't be back to see him for awhile. I feel some of his strongest material is from the last 12-15 yrs. Would kill to hear a show of that stuff.....but it ain't gonna happen.

Govt Mule? Probably no such thing as a casual fan out there.

On the topic of setlists ,casual ,and hardcore fans.....
I am a huge Deep Purple and UFO fan. Maybe at one time they could have been considered a band that would play the classics ,hits for the most part and that would cater to the majority of the crowd which probably were the casual fan years ago.

I doubt there are any casual fans going to see those two bands in this current era . I think they have gotten a little better with their setlists as far as mixing in different songs. But for awhile, I was thinking why?? Why the same old material? I doubt they are winning new fans at this point, so why not go more deep,rotate some of those deep gems in for the hardcore folks? I would be thrilled to death of they would drop in at least 3-5 deep ones. I won't be going to the beer stand at that point and I am sure others won't be either.

I remember attending many ABB shows in the early to mid 90's..Warren and Woody era. All were great, no doubt but the sets were getting pretty repeatitive. In 1997 I was them with Jack and Otiel and during that show in Indy and there 2-3 songs that I have not heard in concert before or it had been awhile and it was a treat.


Totally agree with you about Mule. It took me a bit to get them but I have loved them for years. Don't think there are too many casual fans.

Regarding UFO, I've never heard of them. What are their classics?


What!?!?! You don't know who the mighty UFO!?!? Blasphemy!!!!!

Just kidding Matt and a few others summed them up pretty good.. I am a HUGE fan and can hook you up with about anything and everything them and MSG.

It was mentioned, but Strangers In The Night is highly regarded as one of the best live rock albums out there. That would be a good place to start.

From the Paul Chapman era a good compilation would be Best Of The Rest. His time in the band is looked over , but I like it just as much as the Schenker stuff.

Vinnie Moore is in the band now. They still put out quality material.There last release was two years ago and it was a cover compilation called The Salentino Cuts. I think Phil Moog is very underrated singer and I feel he gives one of his best vocal performance on that cd. They are currently on they're last tour.Phil is calling it a day.

Michael Schenkers 2nd release,MSG, is probably my favorite hard rock albums . That thing is so solid top to bottom, not a bad track. Live At Budokan would be a good one from him to start with.

One of my top UFO tracks
https://youtube.com/watch?v=jwxipYRhou8



they are such an underrated band. it was nice a few weeks ago that UFO was blaring before iron maiden came onstage . sure iron maiden picked them to be over the sound system on purpose


I think Steve and the band are big fans

Steve Harris On Why Iron Maiden Opens Shows With UFO Music

http://www.vh1.com/video-clips/jlf59m/that-metal-show-steve-harris-on-why-i ron-maiden-opens-shows-with-ufo-music

Steve's daughter does a cover
Lauren Harris - Natural Thing
https://youtube.com/watch?v=8Zw9IYYZHg8purpose



Iron Maiden- Doctor Doctor
https://youtube.com/watch?v=L-ql9C_itQw

[Edited on 8/13/2019 by jszfunk]


matt05 - 8/13/2019 at 09:05 PM

yup i knew they covered UFO too


Lee - 8/14/2019 at 11:05 AM

quote:


Gov't Mule has lost the spark over the last 4 or 5ve years----since Farmer passed!?!?!?---and latest live set proves it.


Wow. Your opinion but I disagree. They have always mixed things up and I have seen them several times in the time frame you mention. I really don't think they have lost it or anything.


Lee - 8/14/2019 at 11:08 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Casual fans are at best a necessary evil, and it is unfortunate that the band had to be aware of / cater to some of what has been discussed above. I know exactly why I went to ABB shows, and it wasn't to see Midnight Rider or Melissa every time. It's hard to make me forget what planet I am on in a three minute song.

I guess my point is: "If you have a short attention span, maybe an ABB show isn't for you."


Nice post....right there with you.

It would be interesting to see a poll of people that attended ABB shows ,oh lets say over the last 10-12 yrs, that are casual to the hardcore. My guess it's gonna lean more towards the hardcore.

I remember ,I think it was maybe 2004 or 06, I was at an ABB show and a few guys came down by me about half way through the show. It looked like they just walked off the golf course and had a few drinks.
One leaned over and ask me which one was Dickey Betts. Could not resist, and pointed to Otiel.

Some bands for the last few decades is all they play are hits that cater to a certain demographic in the crowd which are probably the majority.

Here is an example.
I enjoy John Mellencamp live, but he is so much more than his 80's hits, and that is a good part of his setlist.
We went and saw him a few months ago....same old show. Really was not expecting anything different ,but anyways. Probably won't be back to see him for awhile. I feel some of his strongest material is from the last 12-15 yrs. Would kill to hear a show of that stuff.....but it ain't gonna happen.

Govt Mule? Probably no such thing as a casual fan out there.

On the topic of setlists ,casual ,and hardcore fans.....
I am a huge Deep Purple and UFO fan. Maybe at one time they could have been considered a band that would play the classics ,hits for the most part and that would cater to the majority of the crowd which probably were the casual fan years ago.

I doubt there are any casual fans going to see those two bands in this current era . I think they have gotten a little better with their setlists as far as mixing in different songs. But for awhile, I was thinking why?? Why the same old material? I doubt they are winning new fans at this point, so why not go more deep,rotate some of those deep gems in for the hardcore folks? I would be thrilled to death of they would drop in at least 3-5 deep ones. I won't be going to the beer stand at that point and I am sure others won't be either.

I remember attending many ABB shows in the early to mid 90's..Warren and Woody era. All were great, no doubt but the sets were getting pretty repeatitive. In 1997 I was them with Jack and Otiel and during that show in Indy and there 2-3 songs that I have not heard in concert before or it had been awhile and it was a treat.


Totally agree with you about Mule. It took me a bit to get them but I have loved them for years. Don't think there are too many casual fans.

Regarding UFO, I've never heard of them. What are their classics?


What!?!?! You don't know who the mighty UFO!?!? Blasphemy!!!!!

Just kidding Matt and a few others summed them up pretty good.. I am a HUGE fan and can hook you up with about anything and everything them and MSG.

It was mentioned, but Strangers In The Night is highly regarded as one of the best live rock albums out there. That would be a good place to start.

From the Paul Chapman era a good compilation would be Best Of The Rest. His time in the band is looked over , but I like it just as much as the Schenker stuff.

Vinnie Moore is in the band now. They still put out quality material.There last release was two years ago and it was a cover compilation called The Salentino Cuts. I think Phil Moog is very underrated singer and I feel he gives one of his best vocal performance on that cd. They are currently on they're last tour.Phil is calling it a day.

Michael Schenkers 2nd release,MSG, is probably my favorite hard rock albums . That thing is so solid top to bottom, not a bad track. Live At Budokan would be a good one from him to start with.

One of my top UFO tracks
https://youtube.com/watch?v=jwxipYRhou8


MSG. What is the connection to Madison Square Garden?

And I might take you up on some shows.


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