Thread: Do we know exactly when it was decided to record At Fillmore East?

DOVETAIL - 8/7/2019 at 01:54 AM

That is, when the final consensus was reached including band and management and the dates set for Tom Dowd to produce?
Listening to Fillmore West '71 makes me wonder when the group really began to home in on those pivotal dates to perfect the arrangements?


blackey - 8/7/2019 at 12:14 PM

Duane Allman said in late 1970 in a radio interview that the band was frustrated trying to do the records so Duane said he thinks their next album would be live in order to give some of that natural fire they can bring on the next album.

Tom Dowd had just returned from Africa were he had been working on a film. I presume he was involved with the sound.

Each night the band and Dowd would go over to Atlantic Sound Studios in Manhattan. There they would decide what they could keep and what they needed to record again. Tom Dowd said years ago that Liz Reed from the beginning to the end of Dickey's solo was from a different show than the rest of the recording. He wanted to get the best Dickey solo on with the best Duane solo on that song. I remember being disappointed when I realised the best version of Elizabeth Reed I've ever heard from this band is from two different shows.

I doubt they honed anything from the Fillmore West to doing the New York shows. They did a string of shows at the same venue in March of 1971 and simply picked the best of the litter. The audience didn't see and hear the Fillmore album from start to finish. It was a selection of songs picked from several shows.

Is that cheating? Or is that giving the fans the best version of each song that was used that was recorded while they did that series of live shows?


cyclone88 - 8/7/2019 at 12:58 PM

I'm not close to the historian that most of you are, but I never thought the FE album was from a single show. I was just happy to have it.

[Edited on 8/7/2019 by cyclone88]


BIGV - 8/7/2019 at 01:23 PM

quote:
I remember being disappointed when I realised the best version of Elizabeth Reed I've ever heard from this band is from two different shows.


I remember listening to a "bootleg" Fillmore show in the late 70s and hearing the solo from LAFE on another version and then putting 2 and 2 together, thinking no more than "OK, so that's what they've done"....It's a business


DOVETAIL - 8/7/2019 at 03:46 PM

quote:
Duane Allman said in late 1970 in a radio interview that the band was frustrated trying to do the records so Duane said he thinks their next album would be live in order to give some of that natural fire they can bring on the next album.

Tom Dowd had just returned from Africa were he had been working on a film. I presume he was involved with the sound.

Each night the band and Dowd would go over to Atlantic Sound Studios in Manhattan. There they would decide what they could keep and what they needed to record again. Tom Dowd said years ago that Liz Reed from the beginning to the end of Dickey's solo was from a different show than the rest of the recording. He wanted to get the best Dickey solo on with the best Duane solo on that song. I remember being disappointed when I realised the best version of Elizabeth Reed I've ever heard from this band is from two different shows.

I doubt they honed anything from the Fillmore West to doing the New York shows. They did a string of shows at the same venue in March of 1971 and simply picked the best of the litter. The audience didn't see and hear the Fillmore album from start to finish. It was a selection of songs picked from several shows.

Is that cheating? Or is that giving the fans the best version of each song that was used that was recorded while they did that series of live shows?


I am familiar with the sequence of events involving the actual recording and production of the album.
I remain curious when it was formally decided to record live, presuming there was an interval between that decision and the dates, I don't think it's erroneous to further assume the group would certainly prep itself for the target dates?...Or am I attributing too much rigor to the group?


dzobo - 8/7/2019 at 03:58 PM

quote:
Tom Dowd said years ago that Liz Reed from the beginning to the end of Dickey's solo was from a different show than the rest of the recording. He wanted to get the best Dickey solo on with the best Duane solo on that song. I remember being disappointed when I realised the best version of Elizabeth Reed I've ever heard from this band is from two different shows.

This has been refuted a number of times in this forum. After much searching I found this quote from Kirk West:

quote:
the problem with liz reed is this (and i know this to be true because i've spent months in the polygram tape vaults over the years and have handled and listened to all of these things), there is a tape in the vaults that is a "compilation reel", that is the selected versions of several songs and on it is a version of the liz reed from the 13th early set. this tape was included in the shipment of tape from the tape vault to the mixing studio where tom worked. this tape is not clearly marked as a "comp tape" but upon close investgation it proved to be just that back in 91-92. as i said, i had picked all these alt tracks in the winter of 91-92 and was on the road when tom did the mixing. tom did splice the front end of liz reed from one tape to the back end of liz reed from a second tape. unfortunately, it was two tapes of the same performance of liz reed, that of the 13th early show.

This quote was in this discussion:
http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&am p;file=viewthread&tid=38156#pid881050

Hopefully, Blackey, this restores your original feelings about Dickey's solo and the entire awesome performance.

The only stitching on the original At Fillmore East is the "You Don't Love Me" performance. On "Stormy Monday" lots of Thom Doucette's harp playing is edited out, including a solo.


TheBabe714 - 8/7/2019 at 05:43 PM

Just a side note, the allman brothers at fillmore east quadraphonic lp set has the unedited stormy monday and "you dont love me" is the original full version with no splice.


blackey - 8/7/2019 at 11:06 PM

In the early 80's I heard a bootleg of Stormy Monday from Fillmore and noticed it was the version from the album. To my surprise after Dickey's solo Thom Doucette played a solo. Also I had noticed on the album Berry says at the end "Brother Gregg Allman singing the blues. Duane, Dickey and"......fade out. On the boot Berry says "Brother Gregg Allman singing the blues. Duane, Dickey and Ace playing the blues". I knew why Dowd faded Berry then. He had eliminated Ace Doucette's harp solo.


PeachNutt - 8/8/2019 at 01:47 AM

I beleive they had orginally hoped to record at the Warehouse end of Dec. 1970 but Tom Dowd or something else was not available. Perhaps it was easier to get the equipment in NY, don't know.


harvey - 8/8/2019 at 10:15 AM

Here is Kirk West's complete statement on the issue

quote:
the low down is this...for the fillmore concerts i proposed the idea of gathering all the different tracks from all the different sources and compile an "ideal" set from the fillmore. the band recorded 4 sets over 2 nights and the final late set on the 13th was the longest, over 2 hours. most of the sets were 70-90 minutes and they played all the songs more than once, except for stormy monday, mt. jam and drunken hearted boy.

the original idea was to include the alternate versions of as many tracks as possible. the set list was created and tracks were picked. the remix was done by tom dowd at the request of bill levenson of polygram's catalog division, someone i worked with on a number of projects and the executive producer of this package. tom and i had several long discussions about the track selections and my thoughts and reasons for them, but the overriding notion was a package that offered the fans an "alternate" take on the fillmore weekend. tom said he got it and understood the premise.

the band was on tour during the summer when the remixes were done and they were sent to me on the road after tom finished them with bill levenson observing the mixing. the mixes were quite dramatic and truely brought out things i hadn't ever heard before in the tracks but tom had changed the course of things and basicly remixed what he had felt was the "best" track selection, which was obviously the tracks that he and the band had selected in 1971. the hot 'lanta and done somebody wrong are alternate versions. the you don't love me is spliced the same way it was on the original. the stormy monday had the harp solo left in just like the quad version from 1974. the problem with liz reed is this (and i know this to be true because i've spent months in the polygram tape vaults over the years and have handled and listened to all of these things), there is a tape in the vaults that is a "compilation reel", that is the selected versions of several songs and on it is a version of the liz reed from the 13th early set. this tape was included in the shipment of tape from the tape vault to the mixing studio where tom worked. this tape is not clearly marked as a "comp tape" but upon close investgation it proved to be just that back in 91-92. as i said, i had picked all these alt tracks in the winter of 91-92 and was on the road when tom did the mixing. tom did splice the front end of liz reed from one tape to the back end of liz reed from a second tape. unfortunately, it was two tapes of the same performance of liz reed, that of the 13th early show. in the process of remixing these tapes in 92 tom did hear things that he hadn't heard before, he says that exact thing in the liner notes.

when i got the mixes in kansas city on a day off on the road i listened to them all day and night, heart sick and elated, sick from the set list being trashed from my original idea and elated from the new sound of these old tracks.

after all that, it really all comes down to what any one person likes to hear. the original mix you grew up listening to or some thing different and pick up on something new.
the last fillmore package is pretty much what levenson wanted to put out originally anyhow, so he's happy.

i'd still like to someday put out all four sets from that weekend as a final statement. kind of like the dead just did with those 69 shows, although this would be 5-6 discs not 10.

hope this kind of clears things up
.
it was a very special thing, getting to work with tom dowd on these and other projects, he was a wonderful man and it was an honor to be around him and to have him call me a friend. we all were very lucky to have had him in our little world.


harvey - 8/8/2019 at 10:19 AM

quote:
I beleive they had orginally hoped to record at the Warehouse end of Dec. 1970 but Tom Dowd or something else was not available. Perhaps it was easier to get the equipment in NY, don't know.


They also originally tried to do a live recording earlier in 1970 at Ludlow Garage which was scrapped because of the poor sound quality and the interference buzz throughout. That recording of course was eventually released in 1990 and thankfully, due to the wonders of modern sound technology, cleaned up and re-released as part of the Idlewild South Deluxe release.


WaitinForRain - 8/8/2019 at 12:03 PM

"I don't think it's erroneous to further assume the group would certainly prep itself for the target dates?...Or am I attributing too much rigor to the group?"

The setlist didn't change that much in those days. The level of drive and inspiration did. That's natural.
Dowd nixed the unrehearsed horns. Last minute horns is hardly prepping.
My impression is the seat of the pants push to get it done was a plus: good musicians dig a Little Deeper when something else is on the line.

Dickey has said he played stuff on FE that he never played before or since.
They were in the zone.

Anyone reading the liner notes can see it wasn't one night

The band really needed a commercial success at that point.
You can't eat beans for breakfast forever.


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