You are still a liberal. Unfortunately many on the left side of the spectrum no longer are.

Can you name some of those many people and explain why their left is your right?

No. We lose our freedoms when we support those who believe in restraint of expression rather than the free exercise of it

Until someone stands a few inches from your mailbox and screams profanities in front of your family. If that happens, I bet you'd be singing a different tune.

Feel free to condemn Geller for her substance. The second you say she had it coming because violent Islamists have intimidated us into silence you are part of the problem. And if you don't get that? Well you know...what you said.

Who's to say who is "intimidated into silence"? I know I'm not. The only ones who would believe they are "intimidated into silence", are those that feel angry and have a need to pick a fight. I don't judge those who feel that way, because the Lord knows I've been there plenty. But I can assure you that holding an event like this is probably the worst way to confront your issues.

Let's get somethign straight. Westboro is not dangerous and irresponsible because no one is going to harm them as a result of what they do. They are just hateful and awful.

Luckily. There are several stories of bike gangs showing up at their protests to keep things in order. Why create that scene?

What Geller does is in NO WAY comparable to what Westboro does. In NO WAY. And I will not treat them the same.

the primary differemce is Geller's actions seem dangerous and irresponsible solely because ISLAMISTS are violent and dangerous.

So then by your logic, Geller is also hateful and awful, like the WBC. The only difference is that our military and homosexuals are not violent people. Is that correct?

It is truly frightening. I really fear for us as the next generation comes of age. We need leadership willing to push back against this. Remember the Fatwa against Salman Rushdie back int he late 80's because he wrote a novel the Ayatollah didn't like? Britain defended him publicly and to the hilt. We have fallen so far since then.

Wow, a bit melodramatic are we? Yes, how scary it is to ask for maturity!!! We need leadership who supports American rights to be stupid and ignorant! We must teach our people to verbally instigate hostility when problems arise!! Yeah, that's the ticket.

But I can assure you that holding an event like this is probably the worst way to confront your issues.

No, all you can do is mow your own lawn.

But I can assure you that holding an event like this is probably the worst way to confront your issues.

___________________________________________

No, all you can do is mow your own lawn.

I'm not sure what you mean.

I don't understand why some people feel they must fully support the event organizers as some type of heroes or champions of freedom, in order to proclaim their opposition to terrorism. You don't have to do one to do the other.

I don't propose making laws to ban certain types of events....but where's the public condemnation of these event organizers? We Americans should speak out against poor behavior of all kinds. We should strive to behave more maturely than that. No laws needed, but for anyone to champion the event only does a disservice to the country, IMO.

And it's funny that the ones defending the ignorance of event in order to preserve the "protection of Constitutional rights", are the first ones to condemn the poor behavior of those abusing government assistance. Those people are condemned for weakening our country....all while exercising their Constitutional right to those benefits. It's ok to blame those who abuse the welfare program, but those who abuse the 1st Amendment are heroes.

If we are going to expect Muslim leaders to not only speak out against terrorism, but take action to change that culture, then we should be expected to do the same. If there was a news story about a man who screams profanities at children as they get off a school bus, we would all condemn it, as we should.

[Edited on 5/6/2015 by BoytonBrother]

You are still a liberal. Unfortunately many on the left side of the spectrum no longer are.

Can you name some of those many people and explain why their left is your right?

X2

He just wings his posts like thinking jello will stick to a wall - just crazy opinions after more crazy opinions.

After a few days of watching and listening, the reaction to this matter is nothing short of incredible. The rush to attack the event organizers over a cartoon contest amazes me. If this sentiment is pervasive, as it appears to be, something is badly wrong.

On one hand, you can express yourself as you see fit, but on the other if someone wants to kill you over that expression it's kind of your own fault? My God....

After a few days of watching and listening, the reaction to this matter is nothing short of incredible. The rush to attack the event organizers over a cartoon contest amazes me. If this sentiment is pervasive, as it appears to be, something is badly wrong.

On one hand, you can express yourself as you see fit, but on the other if someone wants to kill you over that expression it's kind of your own fault? My God....

You are being completely dishonest. "over a cartoon contest" That was the intent? To run organize a spirited get together of like minded doodlers to figure out who could pen the best doodle?

If there were a reward for disingenuousness alloak - I'd nominate you.

The event was designed to foment hatred by hateful, bigoted, vile, Godless individuals. The event was about disrespecting an entire group of people because of their religious beliefs. The event is a demonstration of man at his most putrid, vile self.

Your other lie? That anyone on this thread has said these people deserved to die because they fomented hate.

"The rush to attack the event organizers over a cartoon contest amazes me."

Wah. Wah. Wah.

That's some top notch BS propaganda there Buddy.

Great post Rusty.

Sure, the Mohammed exhibit in Dallas was offensive. You could make the argument that such an exhibit was "baiting" a likely offended party. But the offended party didn't have to take the bait. Sticks and stones. They could have easily turned the other cheek.

Again I ask, what was the point? Were these artists? Were the offending works of art created by actual artists or were they just drawings by people that hate all Muslims?

More importantly you ask about the reaction of the offended party as if every Muslim pulled the trigger. They didn't.

And was the shooting really what the organizers of the event wanted? Subconsciously? Doesn't the fact that these terrorist took the bait advance the anti-Muslim sentiment expressed by the "art exhibit"?

What's the point of a hot dog eating contest? What if someone at Weight Watchers got offended and opened fire? The event organizers should have realized that someone might be offended and sort of had it coming. After all, they should have known that a vegetarian might get upset and unload his shotgun into the crowd.

What about gay marriage? Radical Muslims want all homosexuals executed. When a radical Islamist mows down a gay wedding party, will the event organizer take the blame? They should have known this ceremony might offend Muslims, so why incite anger? They're just asking for it, right?

What's the point of a hot dog eating contest? What if someone at Weight Watchers got offended and opened fire? The event organizers should have realized that someone might be offended and sort of had it coming. After all, they should have known that a vegetarian might get upset and unload his shotgun into the crowd.

What about gay marriage? Radical Muslims want all homosexuals executed. When a radical Islamist mows down a gay wedding party, will the event organizer take the blame? They should have known this ceremony might offend Muslims, so why incite anger? They're just asking for it, right?

Neither of those situations apply to what really happened alloak. And, once again, no one is saying the organizers are to blame for the violence. The violence was wrong - period.

The organizers are hateful provocateurs. What they did had nothing to do with art. The "contest" was not a contest among cartoonist, it was a planned display of hate speech.

Those organizers are despicable representatives of the human race. You want to embrace them and their actions than you should be painted with the same brush. It seems a lot of Christians preach love and practice hate. If that is behavior you applaud and want to ape - have at it. I want shoot you. I won't wish you dead. But I damn sure won't hang out with folks who spew poisoned invective, judgement and hate.

And that whole Weight Watchers analogy - that's just lame.

The shooters at this event have been dispatched. Good riddance I say.

The people who organized the contest are probably elated with the entire turn of events.

Nobody is blaming the event organizers? Someone hasn't been watching much of the coverage.

You're passing off your personal opinion of the cartoonists, but I'm not really all that interested in what you think about them. They could be awful individuals for all we know, but I will still defend their right to express themselves. That's what the 1st Amendment is all about. It's not designed to protect only neutral, Pollyanna, or non-controversial topics.

The is the United States. If violence erupts over protected matter, we don't blame the speaker. We chose a different course.

What's the point of a hot dog eating contest? What if someone at Weight Watchers got offended and opened fire? The event organizers should have realized that someone might be offended and sort of had it coming. After all, they should have known that a vegetarian might get upset and unload his shotgun into the crowd.

What about gay marriage? Radical Muslims want all homosexuals executed. When a radical Islamist mows down a gay wedding party, will the event organizer take the blame? They should have known this ceremony might offend Muslims, so why incite anger? They're just asking for it, right?

Neither of those situations apply to what really happened alloak. And, once again, no one is saying the organizers are to blame for the violence. The violence was wrong - period.

The organizers are hateful provocateurs. What they did had nothing to do with art. The "contest" was not a contest among cartoonist, it was a planned display of hate speech.

Those organizers are despicable representatives of the human race. You want to embrace them and their actions than you should be painted with the same brush. It seems a lot of Christians preach love and practice hate. If that is behavior you applaud and want to ape - have at it. I want shoot you. I won't wish you dead. But I damn sure won't hang out with folks who spew poisoned invective, judgement and hate.

And that whole Weight Watchers analogy - that's just lame.

The shooters at this event have been dispatched. Good riddance I say.

The people who organized the contest are probably elated with the entire turn of events.

Its stunning to hear that in America we should rethink what speech events can be held for fear of having some jihadis show up and kill .

The organizers probably saved lives by eliminating two of these Islamo-bots before they could come up with a mass casualtiy terrror plot wiht their assult rifles and body armor.

alloak, you are all over the place bro. Are you responding to what's written in the tread, or what you see on MSNBC? Because you haven't addressed any point made here - you just keep saying the same thing over and over for days without responding to the opposing view.

You don't have to praise one side, in order to condemn the other. It seems pretty obvious that while the shooters were scum and deserved what they got, the event organizers behaved pretty poorly too. Why do you equate an expectation for better behavior from one side, as excusing the other from any wrongdoing? Would you fully excuse the Westboro Baptist Church if the father of a fallen soldier punched one in the face? Only 1 act is illegal (the punch), but I think it's pretty safe to say that Westboro protestors deserve no recognition or praise whatsoever for their role in the incident. These event organizers shouldn't be charged with any crime, but shouldn't we as Americans speak out against all poor behavior, to include murder and hate? Or do you believe that would be blaming the event organizers 100%?

[Edited on 5/7/2015 by BoytonBrother]

Only someone with a very low I.Q. would believe that condemning poor behavior like this cartoon event is equal to excusing terrorism.

I haven't followed this all that closely, but did see an interview with a woman who they said was the organizer of the event. She said, and this is an exact quote, "we expected this." Based on what I heard from her, it is clear in my mind that this conference was not about "free speech" but rather about confrontation and provocation.

Just because we have a right to do something, doesn't make it the right thing to do.

[Edited on 5/7/2015 by gondicar]

What about the taxpayer money needed to hire all the security? That was a problem the event organizers created before the event even took place. How selfish of them.

And by saying, "we expected this", then she didn't mind putting those cop's lives in danger. How cold.

What is so cryptic about "We expected this" Newsflash, this is western civilization. People have rights to do things HERE that they cant in other backwards and inferior places. They expected people with a hatred of western civilization to not understand this and resort to violence.

What is so cryptic about "We expected this" Newsflash, this is western civilization. People have rights to do things HERE that they cant in other backwards and inferior places. They expected people with a hatred of western civilization to not understand this and resort to violence.

Who said it is cryptic? It is quite the opposite. That line, in the context of the interview I saw, made it very clear they expected, and thus welcomed on some level, a violent reaction to what they were doing. Knowingly inciting violence in this way is not right, even though it was their right to do so.

i kind of get the impression that some think it is wrong to call out say, the KKK or Nazi's or NAMBLA or Westboro or Geller, for their beliefs. this creates an interesting dichotomy, lol. wouldn't it then be equally wrong for Geller to call out Muslims?

I think pretty much we all agree people should not kill people for things they say. i have seen in other threads people agreeing bullying and taunting is also wrong.

the subtleties of this discussion are many and no one should take an absolutist stand IMO.

Have a Great Day! 😛

We are so fortunate to live in a country that affords us rights that are obviously taken for granted by many.

Yes, we allow anybody to speak their minds on any subject. The KKK, Nazis, Skinheads, Westboro a$$holes - all of those guys get the same opportunity to stand on their soapbox and spew whatever they feel. All they have to do is go down to their local courthouse and apply for a permit. I'm sure the organizers of the Draw Muhammed contest did the same.

Bluedad use to include a quote from the late Hubert Humphrey on his posts: "Your right to free speech doesn't include the right to be taken seriously" (or words to that effect).

Sure, criticize the intelligence of those who dare to stage or put on a display of ignorance or stoopidity, but save just a little indignation for those who react most inappropriately. Some of the posts on this thread reflect greater disdain for someone who held an exhibit of art (certainly questionable in taste and class) than a for a couple of folks who got out of their beds, loaded guns and drove to the exhibit site with the intention of MURDERING other human beings. Yeah, it's all a matter of taste and perception, I guess.

I dabble in art. I'm a hack, but I draw, paint, sculpt and make films. I even play a little music. It's a way that I express myself.

I also enjoy reading and studying art history and various art movements.

As I stated earlier, so much of art is in the eyes of the creator and beholder. Art can run from absurd to grotesque. Some styles reflect beauty in a natural and literal way, while other schools of thought require some serious studying. Often, one might wonder just what the artist was thinking about when they sat down to create.

On the surface (and I'm sure literally) it seems the organizers of the Draw Muhammed event might only (probably did) have intended to create controversy. If you approach the idea from a purely artistic stance (which they probably did not do) the concept makes for a great artistic statement. Think about it. Draw Muhammed ... a cultural/religious figure whose very tenets prohibit such a depiction. Controversy? That's often a huge part of artistic expression!

It's a little like asking someone to paint the wind. Or like Col Bruce Hampton telling a drummer to play a one-handed solo. I even joked with Billy about the idea of someone imagining Muhammed's image in their mind. Would this mere act of imagination create offense or controversy? If I stage an event with 100 people sitting in chairs - all imagining Muhammed's likeness ... would this be as offensive? Sounds kinda Yoko-ish to me!

Some of you seem to invite government regulation of free thought and expression. Personally, this scares and worries the hell out of me. Somewhere along the line, SOMEBODY will decide what can be said or expressed and what cannot. I have a big problem with that.

alloak, you are all over the place bro. Are you responding to what's written in the tread, or what you see on MSNBC? Because you haven't addressed any point made here - you just keep saying the same thing over and over for days without responding to the opposing view.

Merely a daily rehash of the same theme. It's just blaming the left and liberals for everything that is wrong or goes wrong, while the right and everyone connected to it is the embodiment of human perfection. SSDD.

Some of you seem to invite government regulation of free thought and expression.

Who and where in this thread has anyone expressed this?

And, even if they did, is that not also a form of free expression?

Seems to me like some folks have simply asked "Why do some people haveta be such d---s?" This is a threat to the First Amendment?

To get technical about it, there's no such thing as unlimited free expression. "No fundamental right...is absolute." <---- Look up who said that. I can guarantee you it wasn't a liberal.

A couple of extremist nutjobs decided to show up at an event in Texas and got taken out themselves. I, personally, couldn't be happier about that. Does anyone have the right to hold such an event? Of course. Will that possibly incite extremist reaction? Of course. Should the event be held anyway? Of course.

What is so cryptic about "We expected this" Newsflash, this is western civilization. People have rights to do things HERE that they cant in other backwards and inferior places. They expected people with a hatred of western civilization to not understand this and resort to violence.

Who said it is cryptic? It is quite the opposite. That line, in the context of the interview I saw, made it very clear they expected, and thus welcomed on some level, a violent reaction to what they were doing. Knowingly inciting violence in this way is not right, even though it was their right to do so.

Drawing cartoons is inciting violence? After all, it is Muslims we're dealing with and they're supposed to get all kinds of special understanding. That's why a violent reaction was expected, not because cartoons incite violence to a reasonable person, but because it's Muslims we're dealing with.

What is so cryptic about "We expected this" Newsflash, this is western civilization. People have rights to do things HERE that they cant in other backwards and inferior places. They expected people with a hatred of western civilization to not understand this and resort to violence.

Who said it is cryptic? It is quite the opposite. That line, in the context of the interview I saw, made it very clear they expected, and thus welcomed on some level, a violent reaction to what they were doing. Knowingly inciting violence in this way is not right, even though it was their right to do so.

Drawing cartoons is inciting violence? After all, it is Muslims we're dealing with and they're supposed to get all kinds of special understanding. That's why a violent reaction was expected, not because cartoons incite violence to a reasonable person, but because it's Muslims we're dealing with.

What's wrong with being a Muslim?

yo "hawk

gimme a minute...sending you a pm.

alloak, you are all over the place bro. Are you responding to what's written in the tread, or what you see on MSNBC? Because you haven't addressed any point made here - you just keep saying the same thing over and over for days without responding to the opposing view.

Merely a daily rehash of the same theme. It's just blaming the left and liberals for everything that is wrong or goes wrong, while the right and everyone connected to it is the embodiment of human perfection. SSDD.

Talk about re-hashing the same theme. The above comment from you has been repeated well into rubber stamp territory. Amazing too, because I can't recall ONE thing the Left has been blamed for. The Republicans take the blame any time something goes wrong. That's just the way she rolls.

That doesn't change the fact that the reaction I've heard from many left of center folks in this case is mind-boggling IMO. Sorry about that.

Talk about re-hashing the same theme. The above comment from you has been repeated well into rubber stamp territory.

Merely a conclusion of years of reading what you post. You type the same thing constantly, that's what people will conclude you believe. Sorry about that.

Amazing too, because I can't recall ONE thing the Left has been blamed for. The Republicans take the blame any time something goes wrong. That's just the way she rolls.

People on the Left are many times too arrogant, idealistic and unrealistic. Government cannot solve every problem. The Great Society is an abject failure. The unholy alliance of the Democratic Party and labor unions has caused a lot of damage over the years. Many times people on the Left are naive to the brutalities of the world. Democrats have leaned way too much on taxation as a remedy to problems that could be addressed otherwise. The focus on making certain playing fields level has too often been skewed by pie-in-the-sky expectations. Too many people on the Left resort to insult when they shouldn't.

I could go on. I can't say anything similar about the Right, because we both know there's nothing wrong with them at all. I'll cede you that point.

That doesn't change the fact that the reaction I've heard from many left of center folks in this case is mind-boggling IMO.

Who and what did they say?

yo "hawk

gimme a minute...sending you a pm.

Replied!

alloak, sorry man, but it used to be interesting to debate with you, but now you just ignore the other side, and repeat that "we scare you". How fun.