Let's not forget who was killed in this incident and who wasn't.
If Americans are expected to "just walk away"...can we not expect others to do the same?
I don't think it would be a wise decision to expect everyone in the world to be civil.
What "rights and freedoms" do you lose if you chose to "refrain"?
IMO, none. It's just choosing not to be a complete jerk.
Whatever happened to defending Americans and their right to free speech and saving the criticism for those with no respect for U.S. Constitutional law who resort to killing over a cartoon?
wow.
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It would seem that from some posts here it is not politically correct.
Lets see how the Charlie Hebdo PEN Award event goes tonight in NYC:
[Edited on 5/5/2015 by Muleman1994]
I like this article about the PEN Awards.
On Monday, the New York Times reported that six prominent writers—Peter Carey, Teju Cole, Rachel Kushner, Michael Ondaatjte, Francine Prose, and Taiye Selasi—were withdrawing from their roles at an upcoming gala organized by PEN American Center, the international literary and human rights organization, in protest of an "Freedom of Expression Courage" award to be given to the French satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo.
Salman Rushdie, a former PEN president and author of the fatwa-inspiring novel The Satanic Verses, rebuked the authors in quotes he gave to the Times as well as on Twitter, where he dismissed them as "just 6 pussies."
Whatever happened to defending Americans and their right to free speech
Despite being against the law to shout "fire" in a crowded movie theater, I still feel as though I have more free speech than any other country in the world. If I choose to NOT be a jerk, and refrain from cursing at babies, and refrain from drawing pictures of Mohamed, I still feel as though I have more free speech than any other country in the world, and I'm very satisfied with that. If someone feels as though they lost their free speech because they choose not to curse at a baby, then that's their problem.
and saving the criticism for those with no respect for U.S. Constitutional law who resort to killing over a cartoon?
wow.
Do you really need people to point out that murder and terrorism is wrong? I'm more concerned about seeing Americans raise our collective moral standards. I want to see us become better than the Westboro Baptist Church. Nobody needs me to point out that murder is wrong.
Congrats to the winning entry!!!! You are so noble and honorable! May you one day tell your kids about your huge accomplishment!
I like this article about the PEN Awards.
On Monday, the New York Times reported that six prominent writers—Peter Carey, Teju Cole, Rachel Kushner, Michael Ondaatjte, Francine Prose, and Taiye Selasi—were withdrawing from their roles at an upcoming gala organized by PEN American Center, the international literary and human rights organization, in protest of an "Freedom of Expression Courage" award to be given to the French satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo.
Salman Rushdie, a former PEN president and author of the fatwa-inspiring novel The Satanic Verses, rebuked the authors in quotes he gave to the Times as well as on Twitter, where he dismissed them as "just 6 pussies."
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"six prominent writers" AKA: six prominent liberals.
Of course they will boycott a free speech event.
Rushdie got it right.
Whatever happened to defending Americans and their right to free speech and saving the criticism for those with no respect for U.S. Constitutional law who resort to killing over a cartoon?
I don't think anyone has shown support for the terrorist. Have they? I have a right to free speech. I could make a bunch of posters that depict Jesus engaged in homosexual acts and picket anti gay marriage churches. Or perhaps make a bunch of posters of Priests having sex with little boys and picket a Catholic Church. Why would I do that?
I could do it but what good would come of it?
Whatever happened to defending Americans and their right to free speech and saving the criticism for those with no respect for U.S. Constitutional law who resort to killing over a cartoon?
I don't think anyone has shown support for the terrorist. Have they? I have a right to free speech. I could make a bunch of posters that depict Jesus engaged in homosexual acts and picket anti gay marriage churches. Or perhaps make a bunch of posters of Priests having sex with little boys and picket a Catholic Church. Why would I do that?
I could do it but what good would come of it?
You would probably be elevated to mythical status. Not one death would result. Nobody on the Left would blame you for inciting trouble.
Heh-heh! An observation here: The world is obviously round! If you go far enough to the right, or far enough to the left - you eventually ... overlap!
I remember when ideas like free speech and free thought were liberal ideas. Now it seems to be the right that supports absolute free expression, while the left seeks limitations on the concept!
I turn 58 next month, and I've lived long enough to have seen everything already!
All those who participated in this event are true patriots. So are our brothers and sisters in the Christian community who have died at the hands of ISIS. They are not forgotten .
http://www.times-herald.com/local/20150502orange-ribbons--PIC---13-
[Edited on 5/5/2015 by OriginalGoober]
Heh-heh! An observation here: The world is obviously round! If you go far enough to the right, or far enough to the left - you eventually ... overlap!
I remember when ideas like free speech and free thought were liberal ideas. Now it seems to be the right that supports absolute free expression, while the left seeks limitations on the concept!
I turn 58 next month, and I've lived long enough to have seen everything already!
LOL well put
I like this article about the PEN Awards.
On Monday, the New York Times reported that six prominent writers—Peter Carey, Teju Cole, Rachel Kushner, Michael Ondaatjte, Francine Prose, and Taiye Selasi—were withdrawing from their roles at an upcoming gala organized by PEN American Center, the international literary and human rights organization, in protest of an "Freedom of Expression Courage" award to be given to the French satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo.
Salman Rushdie, a former PEN president and author of the fatwa-inspiring novel The Satanic Verses, rebuked the authors in quotes he gave to the Times as well as on Twitter, where he dismissed them as "just 6 pussies."
__________________________________________________________
"six prominent writers" AKA: six prominent liberals.
Of course they will boycott a free speech event.
Rushdie got it right.
Am I the only one that sees the irony here?
Killing people for their ideas or opinions is wrong. Stopping those people from killing others for their opinions or ides is not wrong. How does that stretch into 3 pages?
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Rushdie got it right.
Am I the only one that sees the irony here?
No you are not the only one.
Heh-heh! An observation here: The world is obviously round! If you go far enough to the right, or far enough to the left - you eventually ... overlap!
I remember when ideas like free speech and free thought were liberal ideas. Now it seems to be the right that supports absolute free expression, while the left seeks limitations on the concept!
I turn 58 next month, and I've lived long enough to have seen everything already!
I'm as firmly on the left as anyone I know, and I think anyone should able to draw or say whatever in the hell they want.
Apologies for being an exception to your all-encompassing conclusion.
The shooters are violent scum and deserve lengthy prison sentences. The event organizers are complete low-life, ignorant jerks. The only winner is the hero cop who took down the shooters. Luckily, he wasn't injured or killed trying to clean up this garbage event. Aside from the cop, the rest of the people involved are a bunch of pathetic losers.
Although I share your sentiments, I do not think the shooters will be serving any lengthy sentences, that is in any earthly jail.
Things never change around here....
People have the right to say what they want Seems some made a choice to react instead of respond and people died. The shameful part is people using it to push their political and religious rhetorical propaganda B/S. I'm with Bhawk, whipping out the big fat paint brush is silly. What the majority of people type on a message board or spew from the mouth usually remains far from what their actual actions dictate. That is the reality of it. People talk about street gangs, some of the worst thug mentality I have ever seen is on internet message boards.
I could post a recipe for elk stew on this board and people would start a political argument over that
in a heart beat.
I could post a recipe for elk stew on this board and people would start a political argument over that
in a heart beat.
Elk stew sucks! The elk meat is too right wing tasting for the more liberal, far left yams and potatoes.
Besides, only the takers eat elk stew. The decent hard working people stick to beef.
Sarah Palin probably likes elk stew.
There are limitations of free speech. Maybe "Mohammed cartoon contests" should be one of them. It was no surprise this attack occurred -- from FoxNews.com:
" Local police, a SWAT team, FBI and ATF agents were on hand for the event, attended by 75 people, which authorities anticipated could anger Muslim hardliners. "
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/04/police-shooting-at-muhammad-cartoon-contest-in-texas/That is a ton of law enforcement resources for 75 people putting themselves in danger so these people can not only exercise their right to free speech (which I fully support), but also thumb their noses at all Muslims who take offense to this free speech.
Maybe this could be considered incitement. Maybe law enforcement agencies will "opt-out" of securing these types of events in the future. I don't know how the law would hold up if put to the challenge. It would be interesting to see topic this go before a high court.
As bhawk stated, many issues at play here. Very complicated, and perhaps ultimately not as protected by the Constitution as we would hope.
Great idea. Let's amend the Constitution to exempt Mohammed Cartoon Contests from 1st Amendment protection.
The cartoon event organizers willingly lowered themselves to the level of the Westboro Baptist Church. Congrats you idiots. Way to "exercise your freedom".
I'm so tired of those who can't understand how criticisms of both sides can co-exist. Obviously, a response of violence is unacceptable on any level. But these event organizers are scum too. Inciting violence is unacceptable too. They put their own lives in danger (and therefore the livelihood of their loved ones), they put our police forces in danger (and therefore the livelihood of their families), they waste tax payer money to protect the event, and they give Americans a bad name.....we already have a Westboro Baptist Church....we don't need another one.
And F those who say that we "lose our rights and freedoms" if we choose to refrain from holding such events. If Americans choose to take the high road, it doesn't mean we lost any of our freedoms. It means we gain honor and value over our enemies who sink to this level.
No. We lose our freedoms when we support those who believe in restraint of expression rather than the free exercise of it and the examples of people who have stated that in the wake of this incident are too numerous to mention. Feel free to condemn Geller for her substance. The second you say she had it coming because violent Islamists have intimidated us into silence you are part of the problem. And if you don't get that? Well you know...what you said.
Who gets to decide what events are permitted? Free speech protects what some may deem as being controversial or upsetting. That's precisely what it's for.
I'm not saying we should make laws to ban these types of events, but Americans should treat them the same way we treat the Westboro Baptist Church. Shame them until they realize how irresponsible and dangerous they are. Lets get our media to shame them. Lets see the people of Texas voice their opposition to inciting violence, and demand a higher standard of living.
Let's get somethign straight. Westboro is not dangerous and irresponsible because no one is going to harm them as a result of what they do. They are just hateful and awful. What Geller does is in NO WAY comparable to what Westboro does. In NO WAY. And I will not treat them the same.
That said the primary differemce is Geller's actions seem dangerous and irresponsible solely because ISLAMISTS are violent and dangerous. I do not want to live that way in this country and I have no respect for anyone who is willing to.
If Americans are expected to "just walk away"...can we not expect others to do the same?
I don't think it would be a wise decision to expect everyone in the world to be civil.
What "rights and freedoms" do you lose if you chose to "refrain"?
IMO, none. It's just choosing not to be a complete jerk.
Whatever happened to defending Americans and their right to free speech and saving the criticism for those with no respect for U.S. Constitutional law who resort to killing over a cartoon?
wow.
It is truly frightening. I really fear for us as the next generation comes of age. We need leadership willing to push back against this. Remember the Fatwa against Salman Rushdie back int he late 80's because he wrote a novel the Ayatollah didn't like? Britain defended him publicly and to the hilt. We have fallen so far since then.
Heh-heh! An observation here: The world is obviously round! If you go far enough to the right, or far enough to the left - you eventually ... overlap!
I remember when ideas like free speech and free thought were liberal ideas. Now it seems to be the right that supports absolute free expression, while the left seeks limitations on the concept!
I turn 58 next month, and I've lived long enough to have seen everything already!
The left is no longer liberal. The hard left which derives from Marxism has never supported free expression or dissent.
I think one thing that hasn't been factored into this equation is that a tiny percentage of Americans even know or care about the organization that staged this "contest", same as the Westboro Baptists. I live about 30 miles from the sight and would never have heard about it if it wasn't for the shootings. The vast majority of Americans are still honest, hard working, level headed folks who don't buy into that kind of crap. There's no need to shoot folks involved with that kind of crap, they are insignificant. Just let them fade away rather than bring attention to them.
Killing people for their ideas or opinions is wrong. Stopping those people from killing others for their opinions or ides is not wrong. How does that stretch into 3 pages?
Because quite a few of us no longer unequivocally accept the above notion.
Heh-heh! An observation here: The world is obviously round! If you go far enough to the right, or far enough to the left - you eventually ... overlap!
I remember when ideas like free speech and free thought were liberal ideas. Now it seems to be the right that supports absolute free expression, while the left seeks limitations on the concept!
I turn 58 next month, and I've lived long enough to have seen everything already!
I'm as firmly on the left as anyone I know, and I think anyone should able to draw or say whatever in the hell they want.
Apologies for being an exception to your all-encompassing conclusion.
You are still a liberal. Unfortunately many on the left side of the spectrum no longer are.
The left is no longer liberal. The hard left which derives from Marxism has never supported free expression or dissent.
Shut up.
