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Two killed outside Mohammed cartoon contest in Garland, Texas

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LeglizHemp
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I am torn by my support of free speech as I think this event had nothing to do with free speech. I think the purpose of this event was to get exactly the reaction it got. I suppose I support their right to hold this event though, free speech and all, no matter the purpose of it.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/04/us/garland-mohammed-drawing-contest-shooting/index.html

[Edited on 5/4/2015 by LeglizHemp]


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 6:07 am
heineken515
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I support your right to post that link and comment.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 6:14 am
Muleman1994
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Conversely when the Islamic Extremists held their event, at the same facility, a few months prior pushing Sharia Law which prohibits free speech, nobody tried to commit mass murder.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 7:30 am
BillyBlastoff
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Conversely when the Islamic Extremists held their event, at the same facility, a few months prior pushing Sharia Law which prohibits free speech, nobody tried to commit mass murder.

I went to the National Gallery of Art over the weekend. They have all kinds of art there and nobody tried to commit mass murder there either. What a coincidence!

Anybody else go anywhere lately where folks didn't try to commit mass murder?

[Edited on 5/4/2015 by BillyBlastoff]


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 7:38 am
LeglizHemp
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here is a story about the Muslim event earlier this year.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/muslim-leaders-to-hold-stand-with-the-prophet-rally-in-texas/


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 8:06 am
Rusty
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Part of creating art is to create something that will illicit a response. To evoke feelings. Same with music.

In my own life I have seen crucifixes submerged in urine and images of Mary smeared with feces. Probably as intended, this produced a lot of feelings - among them anger, resentment and general offense. I personally don't recall anybody being shot at or blown up over these expressions of art.

Seems to me that the "peaceful religion" needs to grow a thicker skin.

It's in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 8:14 am
Muleman1994
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Conversely when the Islamic Extremists held their event, at the same facility, a few months prior pushing Sharia Law which prohibits free speech, nobody tried to commit mass murder.

I went to the National Gallery of Art over the weekend. They have all kinds of art there and nobody tried to commit mass murder there either. What a coincidence!

Anybody else go anywhere lately where folks didn't try to commit mass murder?

[Edited on 5/4/2015 by BillyBlastoff]

_______________________________________________________________________

Last night in Texas two Islamic Extremist Terrorists, pledged to ISIS, tried to commit mass murder because of a Free Speech event.

Texas took care of the matter.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 8:15 am
dougrhon
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Conversely when the Islamic Extremists held their event, at the same facility, a few months prior pushing Sharia Law which prohibits free speech, nobody tried to commit mass murder.

I went to the National Gallery of Art over the weekend. They have all kinds of art there and nobody tried to commit mass murder there either. What a coincidence!

Anybody else go anywhere lately where folks didn't try to commit mass murder?

[Edited on 5/4/2015 by BillyBlastoff]

The only cases of mass murder seem to happen when Muslims get offended.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 8:16 am
BillyBlastoff
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quote:
quote:
Conversely when the Islamic Extremists held their event, at the same facility, a few months prior pushing Sharia Law which prohibits free speech, nobody tried to commit mass murder.

I went to the National Gallery of Art over the weekend. They have all kinds of art there and nobody tried to commit mass murder there either. What a coincidence!

Anybody else go anywhere lately where folks didn't try to commit mass murder?

[Edited on 5/4/2015 by BillyBlastoff]

The only cases of mass murder seem to happen when Muslims get offended.

Are you kidding?

Here is a list of the 25 deadliest single day mass shootings in U.S. history from 1949 to the present. If the shooter was killed or committed suicide during the incident that death is not included in the total.

Timeline:
32 killed - April 16, 2007 - Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia. A gunman, 23-year-old student Seung-Hui Cho, goes on a shooting spree killing 32 people in two locations and wounds an undetermined number of others on campus. The shooter, Seung-Hui Cho then committed suicide.

27 killed - December 14, 2012 - Sandy Hook Elementary School - Newtown, Connecticut. Adam Lanza, 20, guns down 20 children, ages 6 and 7, and six adults, school staff and faculty, before turning the gun on himself. Investigating police later find Nancy Lanza, Adam's mother, dead from a gunshot wound. The final count is 28 dead, including the shooter.

23 killed - October 16, 1991 - In Killeen, Texas, 35-year-old George Hennard crashes his pickup truck through the wall of a Lubys Cafeteria. After exiting the truck, Hennard shoots and kills 23 people. He then commits suicide.

21 killed - July 18, 1984 - In San Ysidro, California, 41-year-old James Huberty, armed with a long-barreled Uzi, a pump-action shotgun and a handgun shoots and kills 21 adults and children at a local McDonalds. A police sharpshooter kills Huberty one hour after the rampage begins.

18 killed - August 1, 1966 - In Austin, Texas, Charles Joseph Whitman, a former U.S. Marine, kills 16 and wounds at least 30 while shooting from a University of Texas tower. Police officers Ramiro Martinez and Houston McCoy shot and killed Whitman in the tower. Whitman had also killed his mother and wife earlier in the day.

14 killed - August 20, 1986 - Edmond, Oklahoma part-time mail carrier, Patrick Henry Sherrill, armed with three handguns kills 14 postal workers in ten minutes and then takes his own life with a bullet to the head.

13 killed - November 5, 2009 - Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan kills 13 people and injures 32 at Fort Hood, Texas, during a shooting rampage. He is convicted and sentenced to death.

13 killed - April 3, 2009 - In Binghamton, New York, Jiverly Wong kills 13 people and injures four during a shooting at an immigrant community center. He then kills himself.

13 killed - April 20, 1999 - Columbine High School - Littleton, Colorado. 18-year-old Eric Harris and 17-year-old Dylan Klebold kill 12 fellow students and one teacher before committing suicide in the school library.

13 killed - September 25, 1982 - In Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, 40-year-old George Banks, a prison guard, kills 13 people including five of his own children. In September 2011, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturns his death sentence stating that Banks is mentally incompetent.

13 killed - September 5, 1949 - In Camden, New Jersey, 28-year-old Howard Unruh, a veteran of World War II, shoots and kills 13 people as he walks down Camden's 32nd Street. His weapon of choice is a German-crafted Luger pistol. He is found insane and is committed to a state mental institution. He dies at the age of 88.

12 killed - September 16, 2013 - Shots are fired inside the Washington Navy Yard killing 12. The shooter, identified as Aaron Alexis, 34, is also killed.

12 killed - July 20, 2012 - Twelve people are killed and 58 are wounded in a shooting at an Aurora, Colorado, movie theater screening of the new Batman film. James E. Holmes, 24, is taken into custody outside of the movie theater. The gunman is dressed head-to-toe in protective tactical gear, set off two devices of some kind before spraying the theater with bullets from an AR-15 rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun and at least one of two .40-caliber handguns police recovered at the scene.

12 killed - July 29, 1999 - In Atlanta, 44-year-old Mark Barton kills his wife and two children at his home. He then opens fire in two different brokerage houses killing nine people and wounding 12. He later kills himself.

10 killed - March 10, 2009 - In Alabama, Michael McLendon of Kinston, kills 10 and himself. The dead include his mother, grandparents, aunt and uncle.

9 killed - March 21, 2005 - Red Lake High School, Red Lake, Minnesota. 16-year-old Jeff Weise kills his grandfather and another adult, five students, a teacher and a security officer. He then kills himself.

9 killed - June 18, 1990 - In Jacksonville, Florida, 42-year-old James Pough, angry about his car being repossessed, opens fire at at a General Motors Acceptance Corp. office, killing nine people. Pough takes his own life.

8 killed - October 12, 2011 - Eight people are killed during a shooting at the Salon Meritage in Seal Beach, California. The suspect, Scott Evans Dekraai, 41, of Huntington Beach, is arrested without incident as he is trying to leave the scene. The eight dead include Dekraai's ex-wife, Michelle Fournier, 48. He was armed with three guns -- a 9 mm Springfield, a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum, and a Heckler & Koch .45 -- and was wearing body armor during the shooting rampage.

8 killed - August 3, 2010 - Manchester, Connecticut - Omar Thornton kills eight co-workers at Hartford Distributors before turning the gun on himself. Thornton had been asked to resign for stealing and selling alcoholic beverages.

8 killed - January 19, 2010 - Christopher Speight, 39, kills eight people at a house in Appomattox, Virginia. He surrenders to police at the scene the next morning, and is charged with one count of murder with additional charges pending.

8 killed - March 29, 2009 - In Carthage, North Carolina, 45-year-old Robert Stewart kills a nurse and seven elderly patients at a nursing home. In May, the Moore County district attorney announces she will seek the death penalty. On September 3, 2011, a jury finds Stewart guilty of second-degree murder. Stewart is sentenced to 141 to 179 years in prison.

8 killed - December 5, 2007 - In Omaha, Nebraska, 19-year-old Robert Hawkins goes to an area mall and kills eight shoppers before killing himself.

8 killed - July 1, 1993 - In San Francisco, 55-year-old Gian Luigi Ferri kills eight people in a law office and then kills himself.

8 killed - September 14, 1989 - In Louisville, Kentucky, 47-year-old Joseph Wesbecker armed with a AK-47 semiautomatic assault rifle, two MAC-11 semiautomatic pistols, a .38 caliber handgun, a 9-millimeter semiautomatic pistol and a bayonet kills eight co-workers at Standard Gravure Corporation and then kills himself. He had been placed on disability leave from his job due to mental problems.

8 killed - August 20, 1982 - In Miami, 51-year-old history teacher Carl Robert Brown, angry about a repair bill and armed with a shotgun, kills eight people at a machine shop. He flees by bicycle, but is shot in the back by a witness who pursued him. He was on leave from school for psychological treatment.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 8:38 am
PhotoRon286
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Conversely when the Islamic Extremists held their event, at the same facility, a few months prior pushing Sharia Law which prohibits free speech, nobody tried to commit mass murder.

I went to the National Gallery of Art over the weekend. They have all kinds of art there and nobody tried to commit mass murder there either. What a coincidence!

Anybody else go anywhere lately where folks didn't try to commit mass murder?

[Edited on 5/4/2015 by BillyBlastoff]

The only cases of mass murder seem to happen when Muslims get offended.

So that Norwegian who killed all those kids was Muslim?

And so was the Newtown shooter?

The Colorado theater shooter?

Tim McVie was Muslim??

Who knew?

All Muslims, huh?


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 8:45 am
PhotoRon286
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Looks like Billy and I had the same idea.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 8:46 am
LeglizHemp
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/04/opinions/randazza-garland-shootings/index.html

We don't shoot people for bigoted views
By Marc J. Randazza
Updated 10:39 AM ET, Mon May 4, 2015

Editor's Note: Marc J. Randazza is a Las Vegas-based First Amendment attorney and managing partner of the Randazza Legal Group. He is licensed to practice in Arizona, California, Florida, Massachusetts and Nevada. His paper "Freedom of Expression and Morality-Based Impediments to the Enforcement of Intellectual Property Rights" will be published in the next edition of the Nevada Law Journal. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his.

(CNN)—Famed Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes said, "The best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market."

Some criticize that theory. I can live with that. Let us discuss, debate, and let that debate get uncivil at times. The one common ground that I can count on with those who disagree is that neither of us will draw weapons to prove our point.

That is what civilization is.

Yet Monday we clean the blood off the ground in Garland, Texas, because two men tried to kill people for drawing pictures of Mohammed. The "Draw Mohammed" event was apparently put on Sunday for the purpose of provocation. The group that put it on is not made up of the best people. Stop Islamization of America, also known as American Freedom Defense Initiative, is an offshoot of a European xenophobic organization, and is led by a complete ignoramus.

And its intent was to show disrespect -- even bigotry. So what? In our society, we defend the right of those who disagree with us to do so as we attempt to put our ideas ahead of theirs in that all important marketplace.

Question, debate and even mockery are all fair weapons. We are able to debate, even by throwing a verbal elbow here and there. Nobody ever said that the marketplace of ideas had to be a padded room where you spar with cotton candy.

While I am a voice for acceptance of our Middle Eastern brothers and sisters, I reject any notion of Islam as a sacred cow. If people, including Muslims, wish to be part of a civilized society, they must accept the fact that civilized societies have a right to reject their beliefs, to debate them, and to mock them.

This is hard to deal with sometimes. It requires us to accept the right of loathsome ideas to exist, but (again Holmes), "we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe."

For the third time this year, we have a deadly attack "provoked" by people who were not "sufficiently respectful" to Islam.

Cartoons led to the attack on Charlie Hebdo in Paris. The same ilk then killed atheist blogger Avijit Roy in Bangladesh for questioning the "religion of peace." And now Garland.

And how counterproductive it all has been.

We do not yet know the exact motivations of the men who opened fire on the event -- they were killed by police. But is there any worse way to demand respect for your beliefs than to insist that those who criticize it must pay with their lives? Other religions have had to tolerate humor, too. And there is room in every religion for humor. Judaism built American comedy in large part by poking fun at itself. Did anybody ever want to shoot Mel Brooks?

When the play "The Book of Mormon" was staged in Los Angeles, the Church of Latter-day Saints bought an ad in the playbill. To me, that makes their adherents seem confident in their beliefs -- worthy of respect, because they can roll with a few laughs at their expense.

Moderate Muslims should take note that to the extent they seek acceptance, their greatest enemies are those who engage in violence in their quest for respect.

I have no quarrel with Islam (no more than any other religion). But with attacks such as the one we saw in Garland, it is being represented as one of the weakest philosophies on earth. No views are so sacred that they need not be challenged, and the challenged do not get to decide how the challenge comes at them. If it is insulting cartoons, or simply questioning the existence or wisdom of their prophet, living in an enlightened and free society means we tolerate that.

Of course, we do have an idea floating around that I find loathsome -- those who blame the victims. Those who ask, "Why be provocative?" My answer, "because we can," and not only that "to ensure that we can keep doing so."

Because the day that we say that there is one idea that we cannot mock, that is the day that we lose much more than a life, and much more than a debate.

That is when we lose freedom itself.

So draw. Mock. Point and laugh. If you do it to me, I will not draw a gun. Because my beliefs are strong enough that they can withstand the power of a cartoon. Are yours?


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 11:53 am
BIGV
 BIGV
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Part of creating art is to create something that will illicit a response. To evoke feelings. Same with music.

Exactly.

Seems to me that the "peaceful religion" needs to grow a thicker skin.

Exactly.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 12:04 pm
Bhawk
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Ah, um...yeah. Ok.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 12:19 pm
BillyBlastoff
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There are 1.75 BILLION Muslims. What percentage do you think are killers? Terrorists?


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 12:41 pm
BoytonBrother
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I support the event organizers' right to be stupid, irresponsible, and dangerous to the cops that have to put out their fires. Lets hope none of the good guys get hurt defending the event organizer's "free speech".


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 12:51 pm
Muleman1994
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Quote:
There are 1.75 BILLION Muslims. What percentage do you think are killers? Terrorists?

Irrelevant question.
X-number are sworn to kill us. As long as x is greater than zero we must kill them before they kill us.

Quote:
I support the event organizers' right to be stupid, irresponsible, and dangerous to the cops that have to put out their fires. Lets hope none of the good guys get hurt defending the event organizer's "free speech".

Standing up for Free Speech isn’t “stupid, irresponsible, and dangerous”.
It is the responsibility of all Americans to stand up and protect our country, the constitution and our civil rights.
Obama and the liberals are always welcome to join and do their patriotic duty but it is doubtful they will. Cowardice is what allows the Jihadist to succeed.

Note to jihadists, in America, we shoot back.

[Edited on 5/4/2015 by Muleman1994]


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 2:43 pm
MartinD28
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Looks like Billy and I had the same idea.

Yes - both good responses to a bizarre & factually incorrect post.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 3:05 pm
BillyBlastoff
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Irrelevant question.
X-number are sworn to kill us. As long as x is greater than zero we must kill them before they kill us.

So are you saying kill all the Muslims?


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 3:24 pm
Muleman1994
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Irrelevant question.
X-number are sworn to kill us. As long as x is greater than zero we must kill them before they kill us.

So are you saying kill all the Muslims?

_______________________________________________________________________

Why is it you pose a question with such a ridiculous premise?
Is that you usual lame attempt to provoke me in to a response?

As I have always said, The Islamic Extremist Terrorists must be stopped before they execute their declared mission to kill us.

When the weapon is pointed at your head what would you do?

BTW – is your little list:
quote:
________________________________________
Here is a list of the 25 deadliest single day mass shootings in U.S. history from 1949 to the present. If the shooter was killed or committed suicide during the incident that death is not included in the total.

You conveniently did not mention Ft. Hood, 9/11 and abortion as mass murder in the U.S. nor any of the Islamic Extremist Terrorist mass murder of hundreds of thousands around the world.

You, Obama and your liberal friends love to enjoy the freedoms afforded you by patriotic Americans but never say thank you.

Why?


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 3:39 pm
LeglizHemp
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LOL, this thread was so predictable. 😮


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 3:47 pm
BillyBlastoff
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quote:
quote:
Irrelevant question.
X-number are sworn to kill us. As long as x is greater than zero we must kill them before they kill us.

So are you saying kill all the Muslims?

_______________________________________________________________________

Why is it you pose a question with such a ridiculous premise?
Is that you usual lame attempt to provoke me in to a response?

As I have always said, The Islamic Extremist Terrorists must be stopped before they execute their declared mission to kill us.

When the weapon is pointed at your head what would you do?

BTW – is your little list:
quote:
________________________________________
Here is a list of the 25 deadliest single day mass shootings in U.S. history from 1949 to the present. If the shooter was killed or committed suicide during the incident that death is not included in the total.

You conveniently did not mention Ft. Hood, 9/11 and abortion as mass murder in the U.S. nor any of the Islamic Extremist Terrorist mass murder of hundreds of thousands around the world.

You, Obama and your liberal friends love to enjoy the freedoms afforded you by patriotic Americans but never say thank you.

Why?

It isn't my list. As the post states: "Here is a list of the 25 deadliest single day mass shootings in U.S. history from 1949 to the present. If the shooter was killed or committed suicide during the incident that death is not included in the total."

You, Obama and your liberal friends love to enjoy the freedoms afforded you by patriotic Americans but never say thank you.

Your narrative is tiresome and you sir, are a bore. Your moronic tirades, your caustic bigotry, and your shameful willful ignorance make me sad and weary.

My Pops served in both Korea and Vietnam. I am a patriotic American. How dare you infer otherwise you lying, steaming pile of vomit and hatred.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 4:31 pm
Muleman1994
(@muleman1994)
Posts: 4923
Member
 

quote:
quote:
Irrelevant question.
X-number are sworn to kill us. As long as x is greater than zero we must kill them before they kill us.

So are you saying kill all the Muslims?

_______________________________________________________________________

Why is it you pose a question with such a ridiculous premise?
Is that you usual lame attempt to provoke me in to a response?

As I have always said, The Islamic Extremist Terrorists must be stopped before they execute their declared mission to kill us.

When the weapon is pointed at your head what would you do?

BTW – is your little list:
quote:
________________________________________
Here is a list of the 25 deadliest single day mass shootings in U.S. history from 1949 to the present. If the shooter was killed or committed suicide during the incident that death is not included in the total.

You conveniently did not mention Ft. Hood, 9/11 and abortion as mass murder in the U.S. nor any of the Islamic Extremist Terrorist mass murder of hundreds of thousands around the world.

You, Obama and your liberal friends love to enjoy the freedoms afforded you by patriotic Americans but never say thank you.

Why?

It isn't my list. As the post states: "Here is a list of the 25 deadliest single day mass shootings in U.S. history from 1949 to the present. If the shooter was killed or committed suicide during the incident that death is not included in the total."

You, Obama and your liberal friends love to enjoy the freedoms afforded you by patriotic Americans but never say thank you.

Your narrative is tiresome and you sir, are a bore. Your moronic tirades, your caustic bigotry, and your shameful willful ignorance make me sad and weary.

My Pops served in both Korea and Vietnam. I am a patriotic American. How dare you infer otherwise you lying, steaming pile of vomit and hatred.

_________________________________________________________________________

It is your list as you posted it confidently omitting the acts of mass murder I listed.

Good for your Pops but how have you served the country?

BTW – it is not bigotry to discuss the problems in the black community. Discussion is the beginning of solving the problem fomented by your type.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 5:18 pm
BillyBlastoff
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Posts: 2450
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Mule - I applaud the fact that you are fully convinced of your righteousness. May your judiciousness serve you well.

I wish you peace, happiness, good health and prosperity.

[Edited on 5/5/2015 by BillyBlastoff]

I apologize for my name calling and judgement.

[Edited on 5/5/2015 by BillyBlastoff]


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 6:19 pm
Muleman1994
(@muleman1994)
Posts: 4923
Member
 

It is your list as you posted it confidently omitting the acts of mass murder I listed.

Moron.

_______________________________________________________________________

Why is it you simply cannot stay on the actual theme of the thread?
Why is it you feel an incessant need to crawl into the gutter and insult those who disagree with you?
Can you express yourself in an articulate manner without using demeaning offense language?

This thread was going along nicely until your post today, 5/4/2015 at 12:38.

Thanks for killing a conversation that needed to happen.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 7:00 pm
BillyBlastoff
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Posts: 2450
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Please see my above edited post.

Again, I apologize. Please steer the thread back to the conversation that needs to happen.


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 7:02 pm
Muleman1994
(@muleman1994)
Posts: 4923
Member
 

I got it !

We convince Obama to get Al Sharpton, his senior advisor of race relations (which ain’t going all that well) to take on the jihad?

Just think of the “blue-ribbon panel” they could assemble and the discussion during the conference.

Just metal detectors or body cavity search?
Late night cable or pay-per-view?


 
Posted : May 4, 2015 7:33 pm
LeglizHemp
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Posts: 3516
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Topic starter
 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/04/opinions/moghul-texas-shooting-gellar/index.html

Don't be fooled by Pamela Geller
By Haroon Mohgul
Updated 6:33 PM ET, Mon May 4, 2015

Editor's Note: Haroon Moghul is a fellow at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding. He is an author, essayist, and public speaker. Follow him on Twitter @hsmoghul. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the author.

(CNN)—It's possible you'd never heard of Pamela Geller before Sunday night's tragic attack in Garland, Texas. You might think she's taking a brave stand for free speech, for American values, and that by supporting her, you're supporting America.

I'm here to disabuse you of that notion. While Geller claims to stand for American values, much of what she does undermines our values.

Sunday night, two gunmen opened fire outside an anti-Muslim event in Texas, and were quickly shot dead. Security prevented what could have been a far greater tragedy, and I am thankful for that, and for those authorities who put their lives on the line to protect our freedom of speech. But this isn't only about free speech — which, it should go without saying -- is a right for all Americans. It's also about how some people use freedom of speech to subvert other American values.

I am Muslim, and after attacks like these, folks always ask, "Do you condemn terrorism?" Or they throw up their hands and say, "Where are the Muslims!" Well, to be blunt: Not at the event. In fact, every major mosque in the Garland, Texas, area not only shrugged off the anti-Islam event happening in their backyard, but also declined to exercise their equal right to peacefully protest it.

It appears from early reports that the suspects were not currently involved with a mosque. This is because American Muslims -- our mosques and our leadership -- reject radicalism out of hand.

There's a reason ISIS uses the Internet to propagandize. Jihadists won't gain traction in American mosques.

So why did Geller claim that the attackers represent large numbers of American Muslims — as she puts it, "your everyday, run of the mill moderates praising mind-numbing savagery" — although her only evidence for that are a few Twitter accounts linked to ISIS, one of which may have belonged to one of the attackers, and none of which represent any American Muslims?

It's not as though Geller ever lets facts get in the way of a good opportunity: After the attack, she didn't call for dialogue, for understanding, for bringing people together, which is what real leaders do.

Instead, she went on Fox news and called it a war. And that appears to be what she wants. That's why she's dangerous, not brave. She's not celebrating hate speech for the sake of free speech, but to provoke reactions that polarize America, set people at odds, and alienate Muslims, who are American citizens and often first in line to report planned terrorist attacks. (American Muslims are allies, not enemies.)

And plenty of people know this, not just American Muslims, who might be presumed to be partial.

Anders Breivik, the Norwegian who killed dozens of fellow Norwegians and published a long, rambling screed justifying his murderousness, cited Geller repeatedly to justify his terrorist actions. The UK's conservative, right-wing government even banned her from the kingdom (along with her colleague Robert Spencer). Because they know what the Southern Poverty Law Center knows: She's using one democratic value to subvert other democratic values.

Democracy requires free speech, but it also requires individual responsibility. That's at the heart of what makes this country work. So what happens when they clash? What happens when a person uses free speech to stigmatize an entire people? Even though American Muslims condemn terrorism, it's unfair to be expected to. Collective responsibility? Guilty until proven innocent? That's what it means to ask us all to condemn actions, when we have nothing to do with those actions.

There are other American values, too, which deserve mentioning: Exercising your freedoms with responsibility. Yes, we have the right to say things, even offensive things. But should we? Should we act with no consideration of the consequences? Should Geller have hosted an event she knew would draw a violent reaction? Should she put up advertisements in New York with the beneath-contempt claim that killing Jews is obligatory for Muslims?

Note, too, how Muslims responded: With levity and humor. But maybe making this about Islam prevents people from seeing the bigger picture here, the reason American Muslims are rightly and justifiably offended by Gellar and her ilk: Should white activists line up to drop the n-word "to support American values" of free speech? Or perhaps march into Ferguson, Missouri, or Baltimore waving Confederate flags? You have every right to. But should you?

And should you be surprised if a few people react violently, even if that violence is unacceptable? (Which it is.) What if you kept doing it, over and over again? For what possible reason would you want to?

Don't let Pamela Geller fool you. She might use an American value to defend her work, but it's merely a means to an end, and you won't like where she's taking us.

Correction: An earlier version of this story misidentified the pundit who David Cameron said made him "choke on his porridge."


 
Posted : May 5, 2015 4:59 am
BillyBlastoff
(@billyblastoff)
Posts: 2450
Famed Member
 

I completely support the 1st Amendment rights of the people who organized the "art" show.

I don't understand their point. What was their endgame? Was it just to entice anger and hatred? Are these just another group of Christians "protesting" good folks funerals by shouting "God Hates Gays"?

Was there good supposed to come from the art exhibit? What was their thesis, what did they hope to accomplish?


 
Posted : May 5, 2015 5:13 am
Muleman1994
(@muleman1994)
Posts: 4923
Member
 

I completely support the 1st Amendment rights of the people who organized the "art" show.

I don't understand their point. What was their endgame? Was it just to entice anger and hatred? Are these just another group of Christians "protesting" good folks funerals by shouting "God Hates Gays"?

Was there good supposed to come from the art exhibit? What was their thesis, what did they hope to accomplish?

_______________________________________________________________________

The point of the event was a group of people in support of free speech.
The “art” theme was chosen to show that even if some free speech offends a few, it is still free speech.

Some left-wing media is pushing the “entice anger and hatred label”. Not the case at all.
The event was not on TV or radio or broadcast in any manner. It was pushed in no one’s face.

Christians are the people ISIS is sworn to kill.
The winner of the contest was a Muslim (or former Muslim).

Much good came from the event. Patriotic Americans standing up against ISIS’s fury at anyone who dares to speak freely.
The good people know that, on occasion, people must stand and defend our rights as there will always be some who hate.

This assault marks the first time ISIS has taken credit for an attack on U.S. soil
ISIS’s threat to our way of life and our freedoms is clear and present and lives here in America.
I hope it doesn’t take a mass murder for some Americans to stand and fight back.


 
Posted : May 5, 2015 6:30 am
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