One of the things that just kills me: Trump supporters (CONSERVATIVES ... right?) toking up on "social distance buds".
I know a bunch of folks who insist that they're "conservatives" - who drink to excess, take (various) recreational substances, ... some have a "side" (other than their spouse) - all these folks proclaiming to be conservatives. Don't even bother trying to explain this to me. 😉

One of the things that just kills me: Trump supporters (CONSERVATIVES ... right?) toking up on "social distance buds".
I know a bunch of folks who insist that they're "conservatives" - who drink to excess, take (various) recreational substances, ... some have a "side" (other than their spouse) - all these folks proclaiming to be conservatives. Don't even bother trying to explain this to me. 😉

I consider myself to be a Conservative Libertarian who also believes in a Woman's right to choose.

That's when he told me about "Trump Derangement Syndrome ". He said that is what I have. Is there such a thing?

Only if you choose to believe there is.

Sometimes I think about how we want more people to be active and engaged in our elections and the process, but then you see how some people do get involved and what they listen to and what they believe and then I wonder, maybe we should have fewer people involved? Not really, but, all these different views out there, some misguided, some dangerous, some marginal, some more widespread...we are what we are. Can't control what people decide to believe and who to support. Very very few people I ever encounter can carry on any kind of conversation about what they believe or who they do or don't support. The first question I ask almost always sends the conversation off the deep end one way or the other.

Life is better without politics, but we can't exactly live without it. We can live without talking about it, but people are going to keep doing and thinking whatever they think. People are going to be crazy, best to not make yourself crazy over them.

Sometimes I think about how we want more people to be active and engaged in our elections and the process, but then you see how some people do get involved and what they listen to and what they believe and then I wonder, maybe we should have fewer people involved? Not really, but, all these different views out there, some misguided, some dangerous, some marginal, some more widespread...we are what we are. Can't control what people decide to believe and who to support. Very very few people I ever encounter can carry on any kind of conversation about what they believe or who they do or don't support. The first question I ask almost always sends the conversation off the deep end one way or the other.

Life is better without politics, but we can't exactly live without it. We can live without talking about it, but people are going to keep doing and thinking whatever they think. People are going to be crazy, best to not make yourself crazy over them.

You would think that in the "information age" people would be able to make more informed choices. Unfortunately, any idiot can start a website or post a YouTube video and people fail to fact check or even critically think. In fact, many people go out of their way to discourage fact checking. People seem more concerned in finding views the same as their own. Anything they don't like gets labeled as "fake news." It is really scary times we live in.

quote
----------------------------------------------
Only if you choose to believe there is.
---------------------------------------------
You are correct.
My problem was that every time he says anything, it would anger me. I thought because it angered me, why doesn't it anger everybody. That would make me crazy.
I haven't let him get to me since Friday. Not been easy, but have stayed away from questioning his talk, actions, and unpresidential behavior.
I will try and continue to work my way out of the syndrome. Nobody is perfect, certainly not I.
I will root for America and for Americans to be decent human beings.

Sometimes I think about how we want more people to be active and engaged in our elections and the process, but then you see how some people do get involved and what they listen to and what they believe and then I wonder, maybe we should have fewer people involved? Not really, but, all these different views out there, some misguided, some dangerous, some marginal, some more widespread...we are what we are. Can't control what people decide to believe and who to support. Very very few people I ever encounter can carry on any kind of conversation about what they believe or who they do or don't support. The first question I ask almost always sends the conversation off the deep end one way or the other.

Life is better without politics, but we can't exactly live without it. We can live without talking about it, but people are going to keep doing and thinking whatever they think. People are going to be crazy, best to not make yourself crazy over them.

You would think that in the "information age" people would be able to make more informed choices. Unfortunately, any idiot can start a website or post a YouTube video and people fail to fact check or even critically think. In fact, many people go out of their way to discourage fact checking. People seem more concerned in finding views the same as their own. Anything they don't like gets labeled as "fake news." It is really scary times we live in.

Right, but there is so much information, and misinformation out there. Somebody could honestly believe they are making an informed choice based off of their sources, which could greatly differ from other sources. The fact checkers can't be trusted, they have agendas...right?

And then maybe some of it just comes natural. Questioning authority, questioning everything, don't believe what "they" want you to believe...it's all part of a grand scheme you know. Nobody ever landed on the Moon. The earth is flat. The US government flew planes into the WTC. "Mother should I trust the government?" - crowd yells back "no" (if you've heard any live recording of Waters of PF doing that song).

Sometimes I really don't know about us our society. There is a lot of stuff below the surface. No telling what is inside some people's heads and what they deem important to vote on. But what can you do about it? Limit first amendment rights? You give platforms to people espousing various things, it's going to sink into some people.

The shithole southern Red states have been voting solidly conservative republican for the last 50 years. Result? 13 of the 15 poorest states are southern Red states. Rural poverty and quality of life throughout the south is practically at 3rd-world levels. I've been there and seen it, and it's almost beyond belief.

The shithole southern Red states have been voting solidly conservative republican for the last 50 years. Result? 13 of the 15 poorest states are southern Red states. Rural poverty and quality of life throughout the south is practically at 3rd-world levels. I've been there and seen it, and it's almost beyond belief.

Really? Does this not ignore the reality of how poor the South was in 1960 ?

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/09/10/how-the-geography-of-u-s-poverty-has-shifted-since-1960/

nd much of the South still struggles with poverty. Of the 16 Southern states, only Maryland and Delaware had a poverty rate below the national average in 1960. Among the 14 Southern states with poverty rates higher than the U.S. average that year, only Virginia’s had dropped below the national mark by 2010.

Re- Southern red states and poverty...I hear similar things about rust belt midwest Mayors. The last year of the last Republican Mayor of Younstown OH was 1977. There are some pockets of light here and there, but this area has been depressed and crime infested for 40+ years. Same with a place like Erie PA. Last Republican Mayor there was in the 1960s. All these places...I don't know why they are happy where they are and what they got, just keep voting for the same old thing that tells you they know how to fix it and they don't.

[Edited on 6/1/2020 by nebish]

Playallnite, your decree regarding southern states is much more aptly applied to your lack of knowledge and your Democrat elitism. Southern poverty during most of the twentieth century was a direct result of the Reconstruction and continued bias against the south by progressives who wished to continue sanctions while keeping the economically challenged (read blacks) under their thumb as well. Geographic sanctions such as withholding beneficial programs to southerners was evident in redirection of funds to the progressive’s northern lifestyles. More southerners have by necessity continued to be more self sufficient and leery of Federal government intrusion. The Democrat party abandoned the South more and more throughout the past century. During this time citizens and transplants fleeing progressive enclaves supported those who’s beliefs more closely mirrored their’s - a less intrusive and overreaching federal government. It would be wise to be a lot less epithetical when painting a false image of true Southerners. Thanks for the visit, don’t bother returning with your vast wealth and evident superiority.

Playallnite, your decree regarding southern states is much more aptly applied to your lack of knowledge and your Democrat elitism. Southern poverty during most of the twentieth century was a direct result of the Reconstruction and continued bias against the south by progressives who wished to continue sanctions while keeping the economically challenged (read blacks) under their thumb as well. Geographic sanctions such as withholding beneficial programs to southerners was evident in redirection of funds to the progressive’s northern lifestyles. More southerners have by necessity continued to be more self sufficient and leery of Federal government intrusion. The Democrat party abandoned the South more and more throughout the past century. During this time citizens and transplants fleeing progressive enclaves supported those who’s beliefs more closely mirrored their’s - a less intrusive and overreaching federal government. It would be wise to be a lot less epithetical when painting a false image of true Southerners. Thanks for the visit, don’t bother returning with your vast wealth and evident superiority.

$10 says he is from N.Y. or Boston

That's right, they didn't want to read White Rage. They also did not want to read Reconstruction: 1863-1877. America's Unfinished Revolution.
Anything that points out the elephant in the room with today's Republican party is just too much to absorb apparently.

It's a very boring scholarly read, but informative.

The shithole southern Red states have been voting solidly conservative republican for the last 50 years. Result? 13 of the 15 poorest states are southern Red states. Rural poverty and quality of life throughout the south is practically at 3rd-world levels. I've been there and seen it, and it's almost beyond belief.

You must get your history from revisionist Democrats.

Until i was in college, if you weren't a Democrat, you couldn't get elected dogcatcher. That's from personal experience, not from some mis-guided person that wants to change the perception of history.

Before our last three Governors, the last time we had a Republican Governor was in 1872.
I think that was a lot longer the 50 years wouldn't you say.
Also, most county commissioners, city aldermen, city council, board of education, elected court judges, well basically, you name an elected position and a Democrat filled it.
Again, from personal experience, not from a perceived bias against the southern states and Republicans.
FACTS, not revisionism.

You geo-snobbery of the Southern states is also noted.

True posts, Jerry & BrerRabbit. No need to be more specific, playallnite. Your specificity as to how you regard the South is evident. One shouldn't forget that those "Red" states were "Blue" until they began to morph in the '60's. Go ahead and blame that on racism. We in the South know the activists were unable to keep the protests and burning centered in Alabama and Mississippi. (Remember Detroit?)
As to TVA, it did spread electrification to the rural south but also at a great cost to thousands of families who would lose their entire family heritage and treasure as the flood waters covered their homesteads. Beginning 1934 roughly 3500 families in eastern TN lost their homes when the Norris Dam was built. Most of the land was taken through eminent domain as this was a Federal program that when challenged was supported by the stacked Supreme court at the time. Little help was given in resettling these displace families. ( from the History Channel )To balance this 9000 jobs were created with the TVA. Equitable? Land taken that did not flood as planned was then sold to investors and developers at a fraction of their value. Nice lakefront property became available.
Yes, there is heritage poverty in existence throughout the South. It has existed throughout the history of the world in numerous cultures. But thats modern man's definition of poverty.

^^^

that and the South does not have a monopoly on poverty or racism. We have plenty of both up north.

That's right, they didn't want to read White Rage. They also did not want to read Reconstruction: 1863-1877. America's Unfinished Revolution.
Anything that points out the elephant in the room with today's Republican party is just too much to absorb apparently.

Don't have to read it. My grandparents left enough letters, diary's, and other documents to document what they went through.
As far as the elephant in the room, it was Republicans who tried to destroy the south with reconstruction.
Remember facts, not what you see in movies and tv.

Sometimes I think about how we want more people to be active and engaged in our elections and the process, but then you see how some people do get involved and what they listen to and what they believe and then I wonder, maybe we should have fewer people involved? Not really, but, all these different views out there, some misguided, some dangerous, some marginal, some more widespread...we are what we are. Can't control what people decide to believe and who to support. Very very few people I ever encounter can carry on any kind of conversation about what they believe or who they do or don't support. The first question I ask almost always sends the conversation off the deep end one way or the other.

Life is better without politics, but we can't exactly live without it. We can live without talking about it, but people are going to keep doing and thinking whatever they think. People are going to be crazy, best to not make yourself crazy over them.

Some people get defensive when you want to discuss ideas and positions of candidates they support. The are not knowledgeable enough to debate, and discuss so the defensiveness comes out. With how things are in Washington I can see that somewhere within ten years we may not have a national government but regional blocs. Each bloc will represent the people in those regions. Those who disagree or who are in disharmony with the people there will move to regions with like minded people. As for national defense maybe we will just have a national military supported by the regional blocs and we just stay out of other countries business, no more doling out foreign aid let them govern themselves without our intervention. As to health care each state manages their own and/or pools resources with the other states in their bloc. Vermont takes care of their people, NY's Essential Plan can be expanded so everybody has coverage. The federal government is too big, spends too much money, exports our food and resources. Let us grow our food for our people, let our workers create goods here instead of buying everything from China.

My grandparents left enough letters, diary's, and other documents to document what they went through.

Extremely valuable documents of an era that was poorly recorded, Have you considered giving copies to a university history dept, or even Smithsonian. Or putting them together with your ideas snd doing a book? Shame for such to not circulate.

All of them are on record at several counties in south Ga., and in ancestry.com.
My gandpa on my Dad's side was born in 1855 and too young to serve, so a lot of his is kinda like stories from the home front.
His brothers and uncles were mostly in the 3rd Ga Infantry and Co. G, 60th Georgia Infantry.
Their grandmother was the daughter of John Story, a Revolutionary War officer in the , ummmm, New Jersey militia
My great-great-great grandfather was with Andrew Jackson during the early parts of the Creek-Seminole Wars.
He was also acknowledged as a buffalo hunter in the Ocmulgee valley.

My Mayflower connection is through Francis Cooke through the marriage of Margaret Sloan who was the daughter of William Sloan and Margaret McTeer.1 Margaret Sloan was born circa 1797 at Blount, TN, USA.1 She married William Campbell on 3 October 1816 at Blount, TN, USA. As of 3 October 1816,her married name was Campbell.

A story or two of the women in my family who also worked along side their husbands during times of war.

Also known as "Bonnie Kate," Catherine S. Sevier was the wife of John Sevier (1745-1815), Revolutionary War hero, Indian fighter, governor of the State of Franklin, and first governor of Tennessee. Legend has it that their courtship began after she was surprised by an Indian attack while milking a cow outside the walls of Fort Watauga in northeast Tennessee. The defenders of the fort quickly closed the gates, locking her out. She ran to the palisades and, helped by Sevier, climbed to safety. She and Sevier married in 1780, when she was twenty-six, after the death of his first wife, Sarah Hawkins. At their home in Washington County, Bonnie Kate made soldiers' uniforms, cast lead balls for ammunition, and prepared food for her husband's victorious campaign against the British at the battle of Kings Mountain in South Carolina. On the eve of the battle, she thwarted a Tory attempt to murder her husband. Bonnie Kate held the title "First Lady" three times, first from 1785 to 1788, when her husband was governor of the State of Franklin, and during his terms as the first and third governor of Tennessee, 1796 to 1801 and 1803 to 1809. She was originally buried in Russellville, Alabama, but was re-interred in 1922 next to her husband on the lawn of the old Knox County Courthouse in Knoxville. The inscription on her tombstone describes her as the "brightest star among pioneer women of this state."

Her sister Margaret Sherrill was scalped but survived they were the daughter's of William b. 1707 and Jean Wilson Sherrill both were killed while fighting Indians.

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Mrs. Eliza A. Hood, widow of the late F. W. Hood - deceased at maryville, Tennessee at 4:30pm Sunday, April 5, 1891, aged 69 years.

Mrs. Hood was the daughter of Robert and Mary McTeer, old and original settlers of Blount County. She was a grand niece of "Bonnie Kate," the wife of John Sevier the first governor of Tennessee.

She was noted during the late war as being intensely for the Union, and her house was made a place where letters from Union soldiers could be delivered to their families in Blount County while this country was being held by the Confederate Army. Many a wife, mother, and sister have been made happy by being enabled by her to secure the glad tidings from the absent husband, son, or brother by the letters brought through the Confederate lines by the "underground railroad."

By her keen foresight and knowledge of human nature, she was enabled to receive and deliver these letters without being detected, although she was often suspected and her house searched by roving bands.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the end of the day this goes out to all my family members who have fought in every conflict in this country to the present day and yes "Genealogy is a blast!!".

The Southern Strategy flipped the script on Democrats and Republicans of today. The Rebubican Party of my ancestors day is not the party of today.

[Edited on 6/3/2020 by PattyG]

This is a letter from one of my cousin's to another. The funny thing is that one of my husband's ancestor's is also mentioned in this letter. So both of us have links to southern Tennessee ancestry that fought for the Union. Again the Republican Party of then changed dramatically after the Southern Strategy was enacted. Republicans have ruled the South since that time. Most rural population's in the south are run by Republicans and have a higher rate of poverty than most urban city areas. You could do some research on that if you would like.

Will A. McTeer -- Andrew Gamble

McTeer & Gamble
Attorneys and Counselors At law
Maryville, Tennessee

Novermber 18, 1899

Mrs. Sara M. Hood

KNoxville, Tennessee

Dear Cousin,
I am ashamed of myself in overlooking the data in regard to your husband's military service. About the time I saw you last I collected some dates, and laid the memorandum away until I could have more time, and just now turned it up again.

He enlisted as a private in Company H, 2d Tennessee Calvary, U. S. Volunteers, October 10th 1862, and was promoted to Sargeant March 15th 1863. On June 2d 1863 he was promoted to Regimental Adjucant, and on April 23, 1864, was again promoted to Captain of G Company, in the same regiment, and was mustered out of service July 6th 1965.

I am not certain, but my impression is that he did not reach the regimentuntil just after the battle of Stone River. I know that the first I remember to have seen him was in camp immediately after that battle. I was a member of the Third Regiment Tennessee Calvary and we were there brigaded together, and for months our camps were side by side, and I saw him almost every day. He and S. B. McTeer and Henry McTeer and I would frequently visit each other, and got together about the grounds.

He was a gallant soldier, and always ready for whatever he was called on to perform.

At Athens, Alabama, in September, 1864, when Forest made his advent there, I was at Brigade Headquarters as Acting Assistant Adjutant General, and our regiment (Third) was stationed at Athens, while Brigade headquarters were at Decatur, some fifteen miles away. We, with the Second went into Athens at night, and found that Forest had possession of the place. It chanced that it was the Second Tennessee Calvalry, of the Confederate forces, in the town, and the two opposing regiments bearing the same name were in town together, and a number of both serious and amusing mistakes occurred.

A train had just come in with clothing and food and provender for our men and was at the depot when we went in, and of course we could not get out. There was a contest for the train. First one side would have it, and then the other, and being in the dark, it frequently happened that men of the two opposing regiments would find themselves together.

The Confederates had possession of the train, and Captain Hood was sent to get provender from the train. There was something of a surprise when the parties discovered that they were enemies, and hot firing was opened between Hood's company and the party in the train. Hood succeeded in making it too hot for them and they had to give way, and he took possession, with them attempting to set fire to the train and depot before giving it up. He succeeded in getting to the place and extinguishing the fire before damage was done.

Our two regiments were out on a trip in the direction of Moulton in the summer of 1864. They camped at night, and the Confederates succeeded in some way in eluding the pickets and getting to camps before being discovered. There they raised a wild yell, and came throwing fire brands at the men and horses, who being so suddenly aroused, with fire brands scintillating over their camping grounds produced almost a wild panic. The two companies did not lose their senses, one being that of Captain Hood of the Second, and the other being Captain E. Goddard of the Third. They got their companies together facing the enemy, and stood heroically until the fire from the guns of the opposing parties mingled together, and by this stubborn resistance saved the command from panic.

These instances show the character of the man as a soldier. He was always faithful, brave, true, and at his post of duty.

Yours truly,

Will A. McTeer

This may be pretty long so I will apologize first for its length. I think first of all you did not have to fight for the Confederacy to love the South. Patterson Hood of the “Drive By Truckers” said it best “The Duality of the Southern Thing” really sums up to what it means to be Southern. At the end of the day it is a mixed bag of tricks. Secondly as far as my family goes Will McTeer was the first one to enlist in the Calvary Company A, so that takes him out of the “the jumping of sides” to be able to received a Union pension as well as the other McTeers’ and Hoods. Will is writing to his cousin Sara who was married to the Hood mentioned in the letter.

My Tennessee ancestors are the McTeer, Hood, Swan, Wilson, & Love families so I am actually related to all of them. My married named is Goddard and the Goddard mentioned who fought for the Union was my husband's relative not mine. But as weird as it may seem it looks like our families fought together and had business ties as well way back then. We did not find this out until many years after we were married. It just goes to show what a small world we actually live in.

I had a friend from England named Anthony who did a lot of the reenactments here in Georgia. He played a Confederate and we had many discussions about this stuff and he learned a lot about “Old Flag” southerners like my family. Personally I do not have a problem with Civil War reenactments after all it is history.

Below is some "Old Flag" southern history in regards to the "Sultana", pretty interesting and not well known information.

quote:
Maj. William A. McTEER, a prominent attorney of Maryville, was born in Blount County, September 16, 1843. The great-grandfather, ROBERT McTEER, came from Ireland, and located first in Mifflin County, Pa., but about 1780 came to Blount County. He served through the Revolution, and died in the eastern part of Blount County, about 1824. WILLIAM, the grandfather, was born June 14, 1780, in Blount County, served in the war of 1812, and died May 29, 1862. ANDREW B., the father, was born in Blount County, September 5, 1820. He was a farmer, and blacksmith, and was quartermaster in the Third Tennessee (Federal) Cavalry, and also adjutant, Major and Colonel in the State militia. He died June 14, 1885. The mother, NANCY (GAMBLE), a native of Blount County, still lives on the old homestead, originally consisting of 600 acres, entered by ROBERT McTEER,
________________________________________
Page 1094
part of which was entered from the North Carolina government. Our subject has many family relics in his possession, including a watch of English make, held by the family since 1750 and carried through the Revolution by ROBERT McTEER. WILLIAM A. was reared on a farm, was in a country store, and also learned the blacksmith’s trade. He was the first of his regiment, the Third Tennessee (Federal) Cavalry, sworn in, enlisting in Company A. He was made Second Lieutenant, then adjutant, and at the close held a Major’s commission. He also served on the staff of COLS. THORNBURG and PROSSER. After the war he attended Maryville College until 1867, and a year later was made clerk of the circuit court, in which capacity he served from 1868 to 1878, when he was admitted to the bar. He served in the Legislature in 1881-82. He is a director of the Bank of Maryville; is a director and also treasurer of Maryville College. Since 1878 he has been United States commissioner. In 1876 he married MARY T. WILSON, daughter of REV. D. M. WILSON, a Presbyterian minister, now of Spring City, Rhea County, Tenn. She was born in Beirut, Syria. Our subject is an elder in the Presbyterian Church, and for several years has been superintendent of the New Providence Sabbath-school. He was president of the East Tennessee Sabbath-school Convention in 1886-87, and is vice-president, for East Tennessee, of the Tennessee State Temperance Alliance.

quote:
During the Civil War Robert N. Hood served as Adjutant, and afterwards as Captain in the Second Regiment of the United States Volunteer Cavalry, where he was a member of the staff of Governor James D. Porter with the rank of Brigadier-General. Later he was a successful lawyer in Maryville, Tennessee.
Source: McTeer - Mcteer Families of Cumberland County Pennsylvania, Frances Davis McTeer, 1975, p 91.

quote:
From: GEORGE BEASON
Subject: 2007 IN ATHENS ALABAMA
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 11:49:45 -0600

Athens, Alabama 2007.

To those who plan to attend, I recommend that you consider reading (if
possible) the following book by Charles S. McCammon:

LOYAL MOUNTAIN TROOPERS

THE SECOND AND THIRD
TENNESSEE VOLUNTEER CAVALRY
IN THE CIVIL WAR

I obtained my copy from:
Blount County Genealogical and Historical Society
P. O, Box 4986
Maryville, TN 37802-4986

This book is a compilation of the Reminiscences of Lt. John W. Andes of
the Second Cavalry and Major Will A. Mcteer of the Third. They are
essentially day by day diaries of the activities of these two
organizations who had so many members on board the SULTANA when it left
Memphis on April 26th, 1865. They rich in names and details about
participants.

McTeer wrote an excellent report of the fall of Sulphur Trestle, Alabama
on Sept. 24nd and 26th of 1864 that resulted in the transfer of Enlisted
prisoners to Cahaba and eventually to the Sultana. Officer prisoners
were sent to Enterprise , Alabama. McCammon includes many references
that may be of interest.

Last Voyage of the "Sultana"

by Hugh Martyr, 118th Pa., April 2003

Article extracted from the ACWS Newsletter.

At 2am on April 27th 1865, seven miles upstream from Memphis, the side-paddle steamer Sultana was slowly making way against a strong spring current when a large explosion occurred followed quickly by two more. A column of fire and steam shot up almost cutting the boat in two; within minutes the boat was a blazing wreck. This resulted in the deaths of at least 1,700 people, mostly paroled prisoners returning north as the war was ending. The sinking remains to this day the United States worst civilian boat disaster.
So what had happened? The Sultana was a wide berth cargo/passenger steamer skippered by a maverick captain who had just had the distinction of making the fastest trip between New Orleans and St Louis. Captain J Cass Mason had arrived in Vicksburg a few weeks before on his way to New Orleans, he met with the Chief Q.M. of the Mississippi, Col. Ruben Heath who told him that the Federal Government were paying $5 per enlisted man and $10 per officer to any steamboat owner who would take them north. Col. Heath was a scoundrel who had been cheating the Government throughout the war and had only managed to avoid court martial through his family connections in Washington. Mason left New Orleans leaving Heath to arrange to get as many men as he could for him to pick up on the return trip.

With bribes and deception Heath fooled the Officers in charge of the prisoner repatriation Capt. Frederick Speed and he in turn deceived Captains Williams and Kerns who were under pressure to empty the transit camps. As the Sultana arrived back he had at least 1,400 men ready to board with more on the trains due to arrive. The Sultana had been delayed slightly as it had developed a bulge and leak in one of its four boilers; advised by engineers to have two whole plates removed and replaced, Cass and his chief engineer made do with riveting a patch over the problem. Despite this, loading started on the morning of April 24th. The men being loaded did express doubts about overloading when they saw crew having to wedge large beams in to hold up the decks that were beginning to sag under the weight of so many and were puzzled about the numbers boarding Sultana when there were other craft available.

As the boat cast off from Vicksburg docks, she carried nearly 2,100 paroled prisoners who were policed by 22 men of the 58th Ohio Regiment. In addition to this there were 90 or so paying passengers and the boats crew of 88. In the cargo holds were two thousand hogsheads of sugar each weighing 1,200lbs but the strangest passenger must have been a large alligator in a sturdy crate. Mason had bought it in New Orleans as a mascot. All this on a boat that was registered to carry 376 people.

The first signs of any trouble arose when the boat passed other vessels or sights of interest on the shore, being a flat bottomed boat the Sultana had become top heavy and as men went from one side to the other she listed badly. This meant that the water in her boilers flowed from one side to the other emptying one and flooding another, as the boat righted, steam pressure built up in the refilling boiler. The crew and men of the 58th Ohio tried to stop this movement it became even more serious when at Memphis the sugar was unloaded. The boat was now seriously top heavy.

A few men had slipped ashore and disappeared after helping to unload the sugar, so the actual count of people on board is impossible to state, overcrowding was still a problem as the Sultana slipped her moorings at around midnight. Seven miles upstream she hit the full flood current and listed badly, the repaired starboard boiler could no longer take the pressure and blew, the two boilers amidships followed suit in a tremendous roar.
The blast tore out the centre of the vessel ripping apart the upper decks, the area immediately above the boiler room where sick and wounded soldiers had been placed was completely destroyed. Further damage to the surrounding area was caused as one of the huge smoke stacks crashed down. Below the boiler room the furnaces were badly damaged and fire broke out, soon to be uncontrollable as it was fanned by the breeze blowing down the river. The huge amount of escaping steam caused horrific injuries to men as it blasted aft, many could not have known what had hit them and many more were flung into the river by it.

The fire caused panic. At first the men in the bow area thought themselves safe as the fire spread aft, yet as the wreck turned in the current so the fire spread towards them, anything that would float was flung overboard and the lucky few that found ropes lowered themselves into the water, yet the months of bad diet and depredation in Confederate prisons meant that many drowned in the river. One quick thinking soldier however made his own life raft. Private William Lugenbeal bayoneted the alligator and used its crate to take him downstream.

An hour after the blast the southbound steamer Boston II came upon the burning Sultana, everything that could be done to save men was tried and about 150 were pulled aboard. The captain of the Boston II realised that the current was taking men down stream, then sped to Memphis to raise the alarm. However the town was already aware of the event, a soldier, Private Wesley Lee, had been blown off the deck and had managed to swim and float all the way to Memphis where he was lucky to be spotted by night-watchmen on the levee. Now many small craft were in the river searching for survivors being washed down stream. Problems arose when soldiers on guard at the nearby Fort Pickering who had been told to be aware of guerrilla activity opened fire on the small dark craft traversing the river, nobody was injured however and once the position was made clear the fort's compliment helped in the rescue by taking survivors in.
With most of the superstructure burnt away the Sultana was boarded again by some 40 or so men who had lowered themselves to the water line, the wreck drifted into a flooded grove of trees and shortly after the men were taken off she sank. In all 786 people were rescued most of whom were injured in some way; some 200 of these would die in hospital. Capt. Mason was among the killed; the pilothouse was destroyed in the initial blast as was the officers' quarters. Many of the survivors were placed in another steamer and one can understand their reluctance to make the trip, it was reported that one man spent the entire journey sitting in the steamer's small dingy.

News soon spread of the sinking, yet little was made of it. President Lincoln had just been assassinated and the country was weary of war news. The authorities in Washington however started an inquiry. Three official investigations were held, at first it was reported that a Confederate bomb had been smuggled on board in the coal, that was quickly dismissed by engineers. They pointed to a number of factors, firstly poorly designed boilers that had been badly repaired, the top-heavy state of the craft and the lack of ballast. Four men were found to be culpable for the overcrowding: Col. Hatch and Captains Speed, Williams and Kerns. Williams and Kerns although holding office concerning the prisoners transportation were clearly able to get out of any censure. It is apparent that Speed was to be held as a scapegoat. He was court-martialled and his defence tried to subpoena the unscrupulous Hatch to testify, he refused having quit the army soon after the disaster, the military justice system could not touch him.
Speed was found guilty on all counts and faced a dishonourable discharge, however upon review by the judge Advocate General of the Army the findings were reversed, no one else faced any charges.

There is no memorial to the soldiers who died. Survivors sought to have one erected
But it came to nothing. Major Will McTeer the adjutant of the 3rd Tennessee Cavalry which lost 213 men in the catastrophe wrote

There in the bosom of the Mississippi they found their resting place. No stone or tablet marked with their names or even unknown for them ... flowers are strewn over the graves in the cemeteries of our dead but there are none for the men who went down with the Sultana. But let us remember them.

My husband is a Vietnam area veteran and I guess my point is, is that it galls me to no end that the Trumps have no skin in the game think they understand one minute what real sacrifice is.

[Edited on 6/3/2020 by PattyG]

Those books are by historians who researched the subject fervently and pulled from multiple historic documents. They had access to the same kind of letters, diaries and documents.....except they were from more than one family's perspective.
But whatever, to quote one of my favorite Mule songs
"You can be what you wanna be, and only see what you wanna see"

Good for you Kevdab This a GREAT thread!

There is a lot I want to say but only have time to take issue with my Brer:

Don't concern yourself wirh the TDS thing, its just a bullsh!t trick to make you doubt your own sense.

I agree the term TDS is thrown around way too much. But just like there were some on the right with Obama, there are some on the left that just literally can't accept that Trump was elected and they say and do irrational things that give the phrase quite a bit of credibility. Fact is, the way some on the left have and continue to react has helped me learn that while I disagreed with Obama policies, some of my concerns and reactions were irrational.

. . . while I disagreed with Obama policies, some of my concerns and reactions were irrational.

So you are saying you would be ok with an Obama fan dismissing your concerns as "Obama Derangement Syndrome" ? I sure hope not.

Strikes me as lazy gaslighting and bigotry - it is a lot easier to write off someone's entire viewpoint with web-generated buzzwords and catch-phrases than it is to have long drawn out arguments where you actually have to think.. It is pretty much saying "Sorry man you are crazy so nothing you believe is real or matters so stfu."

I guess what I am saying is after hearing and seeing so many irrational reactions to the Trump Presidency (that some refer to as TDS) I realized that some of my reactions to the Obama presidency were not rational. I am sure I wouldn't have liked being referred to that way but looking back now I would certainly understand it.

. . . while I disagreed with Obama policies, some of my concerns and reactions were irrational.

So you are saying you would be ok with an Obama fan dismissing your concerns as "Obama Derangement Syndrome" ? I sure hope not.

Strikes me as lazy gaslighting and bigotry - it is a lot easier to write off someone's entire viewpoint with web-generated buzzwords and catch-phrases than it is to have long drawn out arguments where you actually have to think.. It is pretty much saying "Sorry man you are crazy so nothing you believe is real or matters so stfu."

I guess what I am saying is after hearing and seeing so many irrational reactions to the Trump Presidency

Irrational???????????

You reap what you sow.

This is a letter from one of my cousin's to another. The funny thing is that one of my husband's ancestor's is also mentioned in this letter. So both of us have links to southern Tennessee ancestry that fought for the Union. Again the Republican Party of then changed dramatically after the Southern Strategy was enacted. Republicans have ruled the South since that time. Most rural population's in the south are run by Republicans and have a higher rate of poverty than most urban city areas. You could do some research on that if you would like.

Will A. McTeer -- Andrew Gamble

McTeer & Gamble
Attorneys and Counselors At law
Maryville, Tennessee

Novermber 18, 1899

Mrs. Sara M. Hood

KNoxville, Tennessee

Dear Cousin,
I am ashamed of myself in overlooking the data in regard to your husband's military service. About the time I saw you last I collected some dates, and laid the memorandum away until I could have more time, and just now turned it up again.

He enlisted as a private in Company H, 2d Tennessee Calvary, U. S. Volunteers, October 10th 1862, and was promoted to Sargeant March 15th 1863. On June 2d 1863 he was promoted to Regimental Adjucant, and on April 23, 1864, was again promoted to Captain of G Company, in the same regiment, and was mustered out of service July 6th 1965.

I am not certain, but my impression is that he did not reach the regimentuntil just after the battle of Stone River. I know that the first I remember to have seen him was in camp immediately after that battle. I was a member of the Third Regiment Tennessee Calvary and we were there brigaded together, and for months our camps were side by side, and I saw him almost every day. He and S. B. McTeer and Henry McTeer and I would frequently visit each other, and got together about the grounds.

He was a gallant soldier, and always ready for whatever he was called on to perform.

At Athens, Alabama, in September, 1864, when Forest made his advent there, I was at Brigade Headquarters as Acting Assistant Adjutant General, and our regiment (Third) was stationed at Athens, while Brigade headquarters were at Decatur, some fifteen miles away. We, with the Second went into Athens at night, and found that Forest had possession of the place. It chanced that it was the Second Tennessee Calvalry, of the Confederate forces, in the town, and the two opposing regiments bearing the same name were in town together, and a number of both serious and amusing mistakes occurred.

A train had just come in with clothing and food and provender for our men and was at the depot when we went in, and of course we could not get out. There was a contest for the train. First one side would have it, and then the other, and being in the dark, it frequently happened that men of the two opposing regiments would find themselves together.

The Confederates had possession of the train, and Captain Hood was sent to get provender from the train. There was something of a surprise when the parties discovered that they were enemies, and hot firing was opened between Hood's company and the party in the train. Hood succeeded in making it too hot for them and they had to give way, and he took possession, with them attempting to set fire to the train and depot before giving it up. He succeeded in getting to the place and extinguishing the fire before damage was done.

Our two regiments were out on a trip in the direction of Moulton in the summer of 1864. They camped at night, and the Confederates succeeded in some way in eluding the pickets and getting to camps before being discovered. There they raised a wild yell, and came throwing fire brands at the men and horses, who being so suddenly aroused, with fire brands scintillating over their camping grounds produced almost a wild panic. The two companies did not lose their senses, one being that of Captain Hood of the Second, and the other being Captain E. Goddard of the Third. They got their companies together facing the enemy, and stood heroically until the fire from the guns of the opposing parties mingled together, and by this stubborn resistance saved the command from panic.

These instances show the character of the man as a soldier. He was always faithful, brave, true, and at his post of duty.

Yours truly,

Will A. McTeer

Patty G, that was the Battle of Sulfur Creek Trestle. September 23-25, 1864. Most of the Union troops captured were onboard the Sultana when it sank. Shows that there were several connections between the two.

Dispatch from Athens, Alabama September 24, 1864

Athens, Ala. , September 24, 1864.
Lieut. Gen. R. Taylor
Selma, Ala.

My forces captured this place this morning with 1,300 officers and men, 50 wagons and ambulances, 500 horses, 2 train cars loaded with quartermaster's and commissary stores, with a large quantity of small-arms, and 2 pieces of artillery. My troops in fine spirits.
My loss, 5 killed and 25 wounded.

N.B. Forrest
Major General

Official Records, Series I, Volume 39, page 870