The Trump Administration's feet dragging turned into childish bickering with Governors and Mayors who are actually mobilizing around the clock to battle COVID-19. Late this week Trump stated he didn't "believe" the state of NY needed the number of ventilators because most hospitals don't have that many (right now is not normal). Not to mention, demanding governors be treat him nicely in return for Federal cooperation. There's no time for this nonsense.
This is what a government death panel looks like, the decisions this administration has made (or not made) affects people suffering on the ground.
Since then, Trump was shamed into working to get NY the life-saving ventilators, but his ignorance keeps delaying aid to the people.
“I don’t believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators,” Mr. Trump said Thursday night, discussing an urgent request from Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York. “You know, you’re going to major hospitals sometimes, they’ll have two ventilators. And now, all of a sudden, they’re saying, can we order 30,000 ventilators?”
Mr. Trump’s accusation that the need was being inflated prompted special anger in New York.
“When the president says the state of New York doesn’t need 30,000 ventilators, with all due respect to him, he’s not looking at the facts of this astronomical growth of this crisis,” said Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York City. “If they don’t have a ventilator, a lot of people are just not going to make it.”
A ventilator, Mr. de Blasio added, “means someone lives or dies.”
And Mr. Cuomo, responding to an accusation by the president that New York was warehousing the ventilators it was being sent rather than immediately deploying them, said that the current number of hospitalizations did not yet require their use, but that the state was bracing for a sharp rise in cases in the coming weeks. “We’re gathering them in a stockpile so when we need them, they will be there,” he said.
The city now has more than 23,000 cases of the coronavirus, a quarter of the nation’s total, and deaths are already approaching 400.
Mr. Trump’s abrupt change on the need for ventilators appeared to be in response to news reports that his administration had decided at the last minute not to announce a $1.5 billion contract with G.M. because of concern about the high cost and slow delivery of the machines.
Those reports prompted Mr. Trump to lash out first at the cities, then at G.M. and its chief executive, Mary T. Barra, who he accused of inaction.
The company has pared back its early estimates of how many ventilators it could ship in April or May, reducing them to 5,000 to 7,500 from 20,000. But even that would be a huge surge; its partner, Ventec, produces only a few hundred a month.
Critics of the Trump administration have said that planning for increased production should have begun in late January or February, when the alarm sounded that the virus was headed to the United States. And even with the president’s announcement on Friday, it appeared highly unlikely that many new ventilators would reach the cities in time for this first, devastating wave of the coronavirus.
Existing manufacturers like Medtronic and Ventec said they stepped up production weeks ago, but they were limited by the availability of parts from more than a dozen countries.
That suggests that the overall boost will not have a major effect until early summer, industry executives said — perhaps in time for a “second wave” of infections.
Because Mr. Trump played down the severity of the coronavirus for much of January and February, and into the beginning of March, the White House got a late start in assessing how much equipment would be needed.
His son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, began focusing on the shortages only two weeks ago, and started with the critical absence of test kits, which has made it impossible to map how far the virus has spread or to identify emerging hot spots.
Then Mr. Kushner focused on the medical equipment shortages, working with the National Association of Manufacturers, the Business Roundtable and groups of former and current executives who gathered under the hashtag #StopTheSpread. Some of those executives now say they are operating on their own and no longer coordinating with the White House because they could not get clear signals about what the government wanted, or when.
But it was the G.M.-Ventec deal that attracted the most attention because it seemed the model for a crash merger of high-technology and deep manufacturing experience. G.M. was moving ahead in its Kokomo, Ind., factory, where it makes precision electronic components.
The White House had been preparing to unveil the G.M.-Ventec joint venture this week, and had hoped to announce that upward of 20,000 ventilators would be available in weeks, and that ultimately 80,000 would be produced. But the company complained that FEMA would not commit to spending the $250 million or so it would take to retool the factory.
And with FEMA still evaluating a $1.5 billion proposal from those companies, Mr. Trump got angry at news reports that described the bureaucratic maneuvering. He soon blamed G.M.
On Friday morning, Mr. Trump declared on Twitter that the company “MUST immediately open their stupidly abandoned Lordstown plant in Ohio, or some other plant, and START MAKING VENTILATORS, NOW!!!!!!”
He angrily accused G.M. of backtracking and “as usual with ‘this’ General Motors, things just never seem to work out.” He claimed the company had promised 40,000 ventilators, and “now they are saying it will only be 6000, in late April, and they want top dollar. Always a mess with Mary B.,” a Ms. Barra.
Within an hour, G.M. and Ventec announced that they would begin producing ventilators at the Kokomo plant, and that the machines would be “scheduled to ship as soon as next month.”
But the statement offered no estimates of numbers and did not address the president’s criticism — leaving it unclear if the companies would simply begin production themselves.
If he would've actually put in force the Defense Production Act over a week ago some of this wrangling would have been averted.
One aspect of the story that drew my attention:
Existing manufacturers like Medtronic and Ventec said they stepped up production weeks ago, but they were limited by the availability of parts from more than a dozen countries.
That right there, if existing manufacturers are having parts availability problems, any new efforts to make more product is going to run into the same thing. Unless the federal government has better means to procure the necessary parts. The time for ramping up supply isn't now, it was a month or 3 weeks ago, some will say even sooner.
If NY has a 40% hospitalization rate and if we assume that every hospitalized patient will need a ventilator and if they hit 80,000 cases (current is 46,094) then 40% of 80k is 32,000. So it isn't very difficult to see a realistic need for that kind of number.
I do have a question that I haven't heard discussed, ventilators are reusable correct? After a patient recovers or otherwise no longer needs a ventilator, I assume it is cleaned, sterilized and reused? At any rate the system needs flooded with equipment to prepare for peaks. The only excuse I can understand for why the federal government isn't giving NY everything they are asking for would be if by doing so the feds wouldn't have the numbers needed to send to other places of need. Have they ever said how many are in the national stockpile? I always heard them say they wouldn't reveal it due to "national security reasons". How many did the state of New York originally begin with?
How many did the state of New York originally begin with?
Good question, I don't think we can know. It certainly takes time to reset a factory for a different type of production, but there was knowledge of how this virus attacks and we could have mobilized this earlier. For all of the people throwing their hands up in despair that nothing could have been done, that's pretty unacceptably fatalistic. For all of the Glenn Beck's that say "take me", well, there are things we can do. The economy is a thing we have created, it can be rebuilt with the proper leadership. Our parents don't need to die for the sake of capitalism.
I have a very good friend who has been working nonstop at a hospital in NYC. She just got there last year after several years working emergency surgery in Youngstown, OH, so she's seen some stuff. The past week is the worst she's ever worked through, and the need for these ventilators is no joke. She also can't get tested unless she is symptomatic due to the rationing of test kits. She's super tough, she the type to run into a burning building (she's a pediatric surgeon), but she's pretty rattled after the death of a nurse just yesterday.
Speaking to those ventilators, in NYC they have been putting 2 to a ventilator. They are improvising.
The President pushed an anti-malaria drug ( https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/27/trump-malaria-coronavirus-152498 ), which health officials would not promote (a second senior HHS official working on the coronavirus response. “We have no idea if this works, and the evidence suggests it doesn’t.”), and has lead to overdoses of the drug. We are at a point where it is actually dangerously irresponsible to take advice from the President.
[Edited on 3/28/2020 by porkchopbob]
Speaking to those ventilators, in NYC they have been putting 2 to a ventilator. They are improvising.
The President pushed an anti-malaria drug ( https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/27/trump-malaria-coronavirus-152498 ), which health officials would not promote (a second senior HHS official working on the coronavirus response. “We have no idea if this works, and the evidence suggests it doesn’t.”), and has lead to overdoses of the drug. We are at a point where it is actually dangerously irresponsible to take advice from the President.
[Edited on 3/28/2020 by porkchopbob]
The prez acts like he's some sort of scientist and touts remedies. A desperate population takes the words of a president seriously. He has no medical background, and when it comes to scientific and infectious disease solutions, he should step aside and let those who really know speak, and not hog the podium like a carnival barker offering up "his thoughts or beliefs or gut instincts". His words are dangerous and have consequences to the negative side.
Arizona man dies, wife ill after taking drug touted as virus treatment: "Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure"
This is a sure fire way that Trump should again win the electoral college votes in Michigan. Helping and giving is his calling for the good folks in Michigan.
Gov. Gretchen Whitmer Says Medical Vendors Told Not To 'Send Stuff' To Michigan
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-gretchen-whitmer-michigan-coronavirus-feud-032411002.html
The below reflects what a person looking for a fight and someone who has no regard for citizen deaths will do. But, whisper sweet things in his ear, and just maybe he'll help the good people of Michigan.
Trump’s willingness to punish a state’s residents amid a pandemic over a feud with a governor appeared evident in a statement at his press briefing Friday. The president said he had instructed Vice President Mike Pence, who heads up the president’s coronavirus task force, not to call the governors of Washington or Michigan. The two states have among the highest number of coronavirus cases in the nation, and Michigan is experiencing a dramatic spike in cases from 350 a week ago to nearly 3,000 Friday.
“I say, ‘Mike, don’t call ... the woman in Michigan. It doesn’t make any difference what happens,’” Trump said.
I do have a question that I haven't heard discussed, ventilators are reusable correct? After a patient recovers or otherwise no longer needs a ventilator, I assume it is cleaned, sterilized and reused? At any rate the system needs flooded with equipment to prepare for peaks. The only excuse I can understand for why the federal government isn't giving NY everything they are asking for would be if by doing so the feds wouldn't have the numbers needed to send to other places of need. Have they ever said how many are in the national stockpile? I always heard them say they wouldn't reveal it due to "national security reasons". How many did the state of New York originally begin with?
Trump's speech at the departure of the hospital ship USNS Comfort this afternoon from Norfolk VA to NYC which can accept 1000 non-COVID19 patients was completely unintelligible re how many, when, & who would produce ventilators. He did say the US was going to produce so many so fast that we'd be sending SURPLUS TO THE UK. My understanding was once the curve flattened in NY the vents would be shipped to other hotspots like Chicago.
I don't know that the public needs to track the number & delivery of vents in part because it's confusing, stressful & ultimately out of our control. It's unnerving to have a prez who withholds medical treatment to entire states of Americans because of his thin-skinned response to governors who've called him out on his inaction & lies. I noticed the VA gov didn't greet him at the sailing. Trump himself looked like he was going to jump up & down w/excitement at seeing a Big Ship being piloted out by tugs.
This is a sure fire way that Trump should again win the electoral college votes in Michigan. Helping and giving is his calling for the good folks in Michigan.
Gov. Gretchen Whitmer Says Medical Vendors Told Not To 'Send Stuff' To Michigan
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-gretchen-whitmer-michigan-coronavirus-feud-032411002.html
The below reflects what a person looking for a fight and someone who has no regard for citizen deaths will do. But, whisper sweet things in his ear, and just maybe he'll help the good people of Michigan.
Trump’s willingness to punish a state’s residents amid a pandemic over a feud with a governor appeared evident in a statement at his press briefing Friday. The president said he had instructed Vice President Mike Pence, who heads up the president’s coronavirus task force, not to call the governors of Washington or Michigan. The two states have among the highest number of coronavirus cases in the nation, and Michigan is experiencing a dramatic spike in cases from 350 a week ago to nearly 3,000 Friday.
“I say, ‘Mike, don’t call ... the woman in Michigan. It doesn’t make any difference what happens,’” Trump said.
The good thing is that Pence did call and Michigan has been receiving supplies.
Saturday: 112,800 N95 masks with 8,000 more coming
Friday: 840 N95 masks, 13,000 surgical masks, 62,400 face shields, 43,000 surgical gowns, 66,000 pairs of gloves,
Thursday: 225,000 surgical masks
Earlier this month: 225,000 surgical masks, 190,000 N95 masks, 250,000 pairs of nonsterile gloves, 70,000 surgical gowns, 86,000 face shields, 360 coveralls
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/28/after-pleas-michigan-receives-additional-n-95-masks-more-way/2933158001/
Sure, Michigan Governor still says it's not enough. Nobody is probably getting enough, the federal government probably doesn't have enough, the suppliers shipping and making it probably can't keep up with demand. I posted those numbers from the article because all the talk is that not enough is being shipped to the states, which I'm sure is true, but clearly, here is an article that lists the actual numbers and that is quite a bit of PPE.
Cuomo just said this week on 3/26 "Equipment and PPE is an ongoing issue right now. We do have enough PPE for the immediate future. The New York City hospital system confirmed that. So we have enough in stock now for the immediate need." But is that a lie or just a kink in the NY supply chain or what because nurses are protesting that they don't have enough.
Trump or no Trump, this is an extremely heavy lift with difficult coordination. Granted, with Trump in charge it makes things more confusing and complicated. But be it in NY or nationally, there are going to be problems no matter who is in charge.
Those poor people in Arizona took a cleaning chemical containing chloroquine instead of a medicine form of the drug. Just because Trump is hopeful the drug will have positive effects, isn't reason not to use it, even if the prior trial results produced a small sample or uneven results. More tests are ongoing and NY is onboard with their own massive "observational" trial (vs the preferred controlled trial).
3/24:
On Monday, Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced that New York’s Department of Health would begin testing an experimental drug therapy and plasma treatment as possible treatments for COVID-19.
Cuomo said that the Federal Food and Drug Administration gave the department approval to move forward with a combination drug therapy of hydroxychloroquine and zithromax to treat extremely ill COVID-19 patients. On Sunday, the governor said that the state has purchased “70,000 doses of Hydroxychloroquine, 10,000 doses of Zithromax and 750,000 doses of Chloroquine,” in anticipation of drug trials that will begin on Tuesday.
https://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/politics/new-york-city/ny-start-experimental-treatments-covid-19.html
3/28 Cuomo press conference:
We're also now administering 1,100 tests of the hydroxychloroquine and the Zithromax. This is the prescription the President is optimistic about, we hope to be optimistic also, but we're now using it on a large scale basis particularly in the New York City hospitals and we'll be getting results soon.
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/video-audio-photos-rush-transcript-amid-ongoing-covid-19-pandemic-governor-cuomo-issues
Nevada on the other hand has banned chloroquine for coronavirus use. Not everyone is going to agree on what to do in these times, Trump or no Trump.
Earlier in this thread, I said something about a 40% hospitalized rate in NY. Per Cuomo's press conference statements today, NY had 52,000 cases with 7,000 hospitalized, that is a 13% hospitalized rate. I used a 40% hospitalized rate incorrectly when illustrating how easily 30,000 ventilators could be needed in NY. If the 13% hospitalized rate were to stand as cases peak, that would mean when cases reach 230,000 in NY that would produce 30,000 hospitalizations.
Those poor people in Arizona took a cleaning chemical containing chloroquine instead of a medicine form of the drug. Just because Trump is hopeful the drug will have positive effects, isn't reason not to use it, even if the prior trial results produced a small sample or uneven results. More tests are ongoing and NY is onboard with their own massive "observational" trial (vs the preferred controlled trial).
I'm going to repeat - desperate situations make people do desperate things. Maybe you or I wouldn't or some of the others on this site would close their ears when Trump starts talking about possibilities or being optimistic about meds or products. This is a dangerous road for Trump to speak to when he is out of his league & out of his knowledge base. Unfortunately there are percentages of the population that do listen to him, and in the case of the Arizona couple, you see what happened.
There is something called individual responsibility, and maybe some would hang this on the Arizona couple. But Trump needs to STFU when it comes to things he is clueless about. His words have ramifications. He needs to listen more & speak less. Listen to the experts, and let them deliver; not him.
Trump himself looked like he was going to jump up & down w/excitement at seeing a Big Ship being piloted out by tugs.
"Stainless steel !"
More like "what a cool toy!!!!!" With his usual verbosity, he was raving about all the Big, Magnificent, Big Ships he saw on the naval base like the only ship he'd ever seen was the decommissioned Intrepid docked as a museum in NYC. He announced that the naval base was the largest in the world as though it was incredibly cool that it was so Big, the Biggest, the Greatest In The World. He kept waving at the Comfort until prompted to salute. He really is stupid.
Those poor people in Arizona took a cleaning chemical containing chloroquine instead of a medicine form of the drug. Just because Trump is hopeful the drug will have positive effects, isn't reason not to use it, even if the prior trial results produced a small sample or uneven results. More tests are ongoing and NY is onboard with their own massive "observational" trial (vs the preferred controlled trial).
I'm going to repeat - desperate situations make people do desperate things. Maybe you or I wouldn't or some of the others on this site would close their ears when Trump starts talking about possibilities or being optimistic about meds or products. This is a dangerous road for Trump to speak to when he is out of his league & out of his knowledge base. Unfortunately there are percentages of the population that do listen to him, and in the case of the Arizona couple, you see what happened.
There is something called individual responsibility, and maybe some would hang this on the Arizona couple. But Trump needs to STFU when it comes to things he is clueless about. His words have ramifications. He needs to listen more & speak less. Listen to the experts, and let them deliver; not him.
Simply put, I agree with you.
However, Trump is not changing. He is going to be President for 11 more months. He will continue to do all the things that people hate that he does. All we can hope is that the system will operate as well as it can given the conditions in which we find ourselves.
He is going to be President for 11 more months.
I certainly hope not.
My math says approx. 9 1/2 months of orange bullsh!t left.
Election Day is Nov 3, so 8 months (+4 days)
Then the 10 weeks or so to swearing-in ceremonies for the winner
Much will depend on the decree of Madame Corona
[Edited on 3/30/2020 by Stephen]
