This is a bigger deal because the detainees were from different countries, so their home countries have a right to be upset that their citizens were tortured.
The torture was done in many different countries, what did their govt.s know about it, and how complicit were they?
AND in the original report (the 525 page report) it is stated that another country asked the US torturers to "make a wish list" of what they wanted financially wise and it would be provided to them, AND officials in Washington DID watch the torture of Abu Zubaidah, so it is not like they did not know what was going on, they watched it in real time. It was not just a few rogue agents who did the acts, it was a program authorized by many.
AND the UN High Commissioner wants the individual agents who did the torture to be brought up on charges. The International community does not condone torture.
http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf
This is the 499 page version, there are 125 more pages I read elsewhere. Reporters DO have it, it will not be swept under the rug.
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/senate-intelligence-committee-torture-report-executive-summary
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30420364
http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBodies/HRCouncil/RegularSession/Session22/A-HRC-22-52_en.pdf
Ben Emmerson (United Kingdom) is the Special Rapporteur on the promotion and protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms while countering terrorism. On 1 August 2011, he took up his functions on the mandate that was created in 2005 by the former United Nations Commission on Human, renewed by the UN Human Rights Council for a three year period in December 2007, in September 2010 and again in March 2013. As Special Rapporteur he is independent from any Government and serves in his individual capacity.
The Special Rapporteurs are part of what is known as the Special Procedures of the Human Rights Council. Special Procedures, the largest body of independent experts in the UN Human Rights system, is the general name of the Council’s independent fact-finding and monitoring mechanisms that address either specific country situations or thematic issues in all parts of the world. Special Procedures’ experts work on a voluntary basis; they are not UN staff and do not receive a salary for their work.
Even Ashraf Ghani, new President of Afghanistan wants those who tortured to be held responsible.
Does using foreign countries to skirt around US laws come under the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court for war crimes?
I think this article has pretty much nailed what the actual purpose of The Torture Report is:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/adamserwer/unhappy-the-land-where-heroes-are-needed
The administration is dragging the Republicans through the mud on this; and on Benghazi they swept everything under the road.
Darryl Issa's very expensive and wasteful commission came to a very different conclusion.
I think this article has pretty much nailed what the actual purpose of The Torture Report is:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/adamserwer/unhappy-the-land-where-heroes-are-needed
Good article.
I'm torn as to whether this was good to do or not. on one hand I think it is good for the country to know. on the other hand I think its bad for the world to know. if I had more hands I could be even more wishy washy about my feelings about this.
an important ruling is coming out this Friday about whether to release 2000 + photos of the "torture". I think these photos will have to be released because of the court ruling. so maybe it was necessary to release the report ahead of the photos being released.
In my mind, what is not good, is that we have crimes but no criminals. This didn't happen by itself. People condoned the torture. People ordered the torture. People carried out the torture. These crimes were horrific.
Why is nobody accountable? These despicable war criminals need to arrested, tried, convicted and imprisoned.
If that does not happen than Obama needs to fully pardon, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et.al...
That wouldn't make me happy but we would at least recognize these lying, murdering, war criminals for who they are.
Torture of anything God has created is wrong and I'm vehemently against it.
I'm beginning to think was a political move to rile up the masses.
This, in my opinion, should've been kept in house and dealt with accordingly.
We vote these people into office to run the show and with that comes a certain level of trust.
Oh wait, we don't trust any of them so sure, parade on out there, report in hand, telling us how diligent and forthright you are while accusing someone else of their abhorrent behavior, all the while looking spiffy and clean and above the mess.
got it.
why does all this need to be made public? why do these politicians, Feinstein in particular, have to parade themselves and this report and wave it in the publics face? all embassys are on high alert. what purpose does it serve? do I really need to know this information? that should be a matter between the WH and the CIA and the military; strictly an in house affair. All it did was piss off al Qaeda. Certain things I just don't need to know. It's like we're saying, "yes, al Qaeda, we tortured, unjustly, your kin. We're sorry". I think it's idiotic.
We are a democracy. This was done "in our name". The taxpayers paid for this. The people were systematically lied to by the CIA and the Bush administration. Bush himself, nearly two years after he knew the facts said the USA does not torture.
Our actions are a direct violation of the Geneva Conventions. The people responsible are war criminals. That is a fact.
Why do you not want to know? This is allegedly a government by the People, for the People.
Why do you want to keep trusting a government and a CIA that systematically manipulates the Press into feeding the people lies?
You think Feinstein is the bad guy in all this? That seems a really warped take away.
no I don't trust the government.
Congress has what, a 15 per cent approval rating? (who ARE those 15 per cent? 😛 )
a member of Congress told us about some wrongdoing.
does anyone but me see the irony and hypocrisy in this?
anything titled "Senate Report" and I grow leery.
The administration had a moral obligation to make this public.
Isn't the administration withholding key information protecting the last administration?
Kerry tried to stop Feinstein from releasing the report.
My sarcasm didn't make it through in my post. The administration is dragging the Republicans through the mud on this; and on Benghazi they swept everything under the road. This move is 100% political with 2016 on the horizon
It will backfire. As sad as it makes our friends on the left, the American people by and large don't have too much of a problem with the architect of 9/11 being waterboarded or kept awake for 72 hours.
The administration had a moral obligation to make this public.
Isn't the administration withholding key information protecting the last administration?
Kerry tried to stop Feinstein from releasing the report.
My sarcasm didn't make it through in my post. The administration is dragging the Republicans through the mud on this; and on Benghazi they swept everything under the road. This move is 100% political with 2016 on the horizon
It will backfire. As sad as it makes our friends on the left, the American people by and large don't have too much of a problem with the architect of 9/11 being waterboarded or kept awake for 72 hours.
Poor baby.
It will backfire. As sad as it makes our friends on the left, the American people by and large don't have too much of a problem with the architect of 9/11 being waterboarded or kept awake for 72 hours.
And the Germans didn't have much of a problem watching the Jews loaded on to the trains.
As a lawyer I thought you would support upholding the law.
Choo! Choo!
It will backfire. As sad as it makes our friends on the left, the American people by and large don't have too much of a problem with the architect of 9/11 being waterboarded or kept awake for 72 hours.
And the Germans didn't have much of a problem watching the Jews loaded on to the trains.
As a lawyer I thought you would support upholding the law.
Choo! Choo!
No one is getting charged and no one is going to jail. This too shall pass and by this time next week everyone will be freaking out about something else.
Congress has what, a 15 per cent approval rating?
11%, actually. 96% of the incumbents that earned that rating just got re-elected.
No one is getting charged and no one is going to jail. This too shall pass and by this time next week everyone will be freaking out about something else.
I hear Taylor Swift might be getting her period. Stay tuned.
only if Congress approves it...
Heheheheheh... 
No one is getting charged and no one is going to jail. This too shall pass and by this time next week everyone will be freaking out about something else.
Congress has what, a 15 per cent approval rating?
96% of the incumbents that earned that rating just got re-elected.
They got punished for all the obstruction and gridlock.
They got punished for all the obstruction and gridlock.
They got rewarded for gerrymandering, suppressing the vote, and fixing the system.
Combine that with stupid, ignorant, no information voters and the same scumbags who screw up the country keep getting elected.
No one is getting charged and no one is going to jail. This too shall pass and by this time next week everyone will be freaking out about something else.
Congress has what, a 15 per cent approval rating?
96% of the incumbents that earned that rating just got re-elected.
They got punished for all the obstruction and gridlock.
That's heavy Bhawk.
No one is getting charged and no one is going to jail. This too shall pass and by this time next week everyone will be freaking out about something else.
Congress has what, a 15 per cent approval rating?
96% of the incumbents that earned that rating just got re-elected.
They got punished for shutting down the government!
They got re-elected by morons.
I'm torn as to whether this was good to do or not. on one hand I think it is good for the country to know. on the other hand I think its bad for the world to know. if I had more hands I could be even more wishy washy about my feelings about this.
an important ruling is coming out this Friday about whether to release 2000 + photos of the "torture". I think these photos will have to be released because of the court ruling. so maybe it was necessary to release the report ahead of the photos being released.
If people are ashamed of what they do, they shouldn't be doing it. Everybody knows what torture is. The govt. wants people to believe it is okay to torture some people under some circumstances.
To me, torture is demonic.
If I was in charge of it, I would revamp the entire system. Instead of torture, I would use rewards for info. Give all the prisoners a comfortable room. Speak with them once a week for a hour or so and ask them if they would like to provide info. If they do, they get some perks. If they don't they just remain a guest of the govt and facility, but they are not kept in cages, they have private rooms. Their sleep is undisturbed, no one is shackled to a floor naked with cold water being doused on them etc. etc.
Perks: pillowtop mattress cover, recreation (soccer, football, basketball), better food (Argentinian steak etc), access to a library learning center, a pool, walking track.
If you treat people nicely they will respond in time. You just explain that they will remain there unless they provide information. If they provide info, give them perks, and immunity from prosecution. They do not want to live there, so their own desire to get out will inspire them to cooperate, it just takes time.
This we will beat it out of you approach is nothing but brutality inspiring defiance.
The people who devised the torture techniques were paid more then 80 million dollars.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2014/12/10/Two-Docs-Got-80-Million-Develop-Torture-Tactics
Two Docs got 80 million to develop torture techniques
In 2002, two former Air Force psychologists, James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, became the masterminds of the CIA’s torture program, according to a new report released by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. The two men, identified in the report under the pseudonyms Grayson Swigert and Hammond Dunbar, devised and performed torture tactics - including waterboarding and mock burial on some of the CIA’s most significant detainees.
Both had military training in a secret Air Force program - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape or SERE – which teaches soldiers how to survive being held prisoner by enemy combatants. The doctors decided to develop their own program by reversing SERE in order to use it on the U.S.’s enemies.The report says that as part of his pitch to be a part of the CIA’s program, “Swigert” detailed a list of 12 SERE-like techniques he would use on detainees including “the attention grasp, walling, facial hold, facial slap, cramped confinement, standing, stress positions, sleep deprivation, water-board, use of diapers, use of insects, and mock burial.
By 2005, the CIA had outsourced nearly all of its interrogation work to the two doctors, who by that time had formed a private contracting company called Mitchell, Jessen and Associates with at least five other people.By 2006, the CIA had awarded them a contract in excess of $180 million. The contract was terminated in 2009, after the company had received about $81 million from the United States government.
Soon after the contract was terminated, ProPublica, a nonprofit investigative journalism organization, attempted to contact the firm at its headquarters in Spokane, Washington only to find it had disappeared without a trace.
Comment: Eighty million dollars to torture people. This is our tax dollars at work.
I do think 40+ days of this crosses the line but short term because of an immediate danger....I'm not sure.
I am not knowledgeable enough about interrogation techniques and what works and what doesn't to really say one way or the other.
I do know I would not like to be treated this way and would sing like a canary if I knew it was coming.
I think the point is that it is against international law.
Now we have all these crimes committed in our names but no criminals.
Just like the banksters.
There are two justice systems in America. That ain't right.
It will backfire. As sad as it makes our friends on the left, the American people by and large don't have too much of a problem with the architect of 9/11 being waterboarded or kept awake for 72 hours.
And the Germans didn't have much of a problem watching the Jews loaded on to the trains.
As a lawyer I thought you would support upholding the law.
Choo! Choo!
They did uphold the law. The Justice Department provided legal justifications for everything. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it wasn't legal. ANd for you to compare this to the Holocaust is obscene.
It will backfire. As sad as it makes our friends on the left, the American people by and large don't have too much of a problem with the architect of 9/11 being waterboarded or kept awake for 72 hours.
And the Germans didn't have much of a problem watching the Jews loaded on to the trains.
As a lawyer I thought you would support upholding the law.
Choo! Choo!
They did uphold the law. The Justice Department provided legal justifications for everything. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it wasn't legal. ANd for you to compare this to the Holocaust is obscene.
We violated the Geneva Convention so the BS excuse that the Bush Justice Department said it was legally o.k. does not make it right. The Bush administration committed war crimes and should have been prosecuted for it.
They did uphold the law. The Justice Department provided legal justifications for everything. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it wasn't legal. ANd for you to compare this to the Holocaust is obscene.
The torture was obscene. My comparison is not. Are you saying the individuals we sodomized with food suffered less than all the individuals victimized in the holocaust? On an individual level you can't make that determination.
Your disgusting approval of the torture because most Americans think it is OK is obscene. All you are doing with your approval is making sure the trains are running on time.
As far as the Justice Department changing international law and making it OK to break the Geneva Conventions... Are you kidding me!!!
Get over yourself. Keep making sure the trains run on time Doug. Don't complain once you become a passenger.
[Edited on 12/12/2014 by BillyBlastoff]
I'm sure the spike in mozzarella cheese consumption in 2007 is in direct correlation to the Patriots going 18 and 0 and all us Italian Yankees wolfin' down pizza.
notice the drop in early 2008. 🙁 😛
It will backfire. As sad as it makes our friends on the left, the American people by and large don't have too much of a problem with the architect of 9/11 being waterboarded or kept awake for 72 hours.
And the Germans didn't have much of a problem watching the Jews loaded on to the trains.
As a lawyer I thought you would support upholding the law.
Choo! Choo!
That's right we did violate them, deliberately, determinately, pre-meditately. What does that say for our system and our governmental authorities who do such things? Who do they represent? Us?
Code Pink, Medea Benjamin's group is requesting the resignation of John Brennan, but if they just change the face of who they put in the position, nothing really changes, does it?
This is Code Pink's request.
Dear President Obama,
We call on you to immediately terminate John Brennan's position as chief of the Central Intelligence Agency for reasons including obstruction of justice, perjury, and crimes against humanity.
As a signatory to the UN Convention Against Torture (CAT), we are required to prosecute anyone who commits or is complicit in torture or inhuman treatment of people in custody. Prosecution is not discretionary-- our Department of Justice must indict and prosecute anyone for whom there is evidence of torture, and this includes policy-makers and lawyers who incorrectly decided that waterboarding and other “enhanced interrogation techniques” were legal.
John Brennan was not only involved in the torture program under Bush, he helped to orchestrate it. When the Senate Intelligence Committee investigated torture allegations, Brennan's CIA infiltrated Senate computer systems to stop them. Now that the Torture Report has been released, and the horrible abuses Brennan condoned have been revealed to the public, he has admitted to some wrong-doing. Brennan has acknowledged errors in interrogation techniques, but contends that he is in someway above the law in that these interrogations resulted in "useful" intelligence.
President Obama, set an example for future administrations and the world, by holding John Brennan accountable not only for war crimes, but for his attempts to deceive Congress and the American public. Torture is never legal, at any time, for any reason. The CAT prohibits acts that are inhuman or degrading as well; the CIA and military are clearly in violation of the law. Hold Brennan accountable now!
They did uphold the law. The Justice Department provided legal justifications for everything. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it wasn't legal. ANd for you to compare this to the Holocaust is obscene.
We violated the Geneva Convention so the BS excuse that the Bush Justice Department said it was legally o.k. does not make it right. The Bush administration committed war crimes and should have been prosecuted for it.
