I can't believe Obama is getting away with this! He should be impeached!
What...no response to the original post? Surely this is a controversial topic?
Tonight I saw excerpts from an interview of several years back with George Tenet, former Director Of CIA. He adamantly denies that torture was used. So there you have it. Time to close the door on this.
so what...everyone else does it too
So what ...why is it that it was okay for bush to get away with this but Obama? Hypocrites? I think so .
McCain makes passionate defense for torture report's release
(CNN) -- Republican Sen. John McCain broke with members of his party Tuesday, lauding the release of the Senate Intelligence Committee's report on torture and decrying the use of torture as having "stained our national honor" and doing "much harm and little practical good."
McCain, a survivor of torture himself from his Naval service during the Vietnam War, said from the Senate floor that the techniques outlined in the report "not only failed their purpose — to secure actionable intelligence to prevent further attacks on the U.S. and our allies — but actually damaged our security interests, as well as our reputation as a force for good in the world."
Many Republicans have argued against releasing the report, especially as the threat of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria grows, and U.S. intelligence officials have warned that its release could cause backlash from nations and groups hostile towards the nation. American embassies in the Middle East have been put on heightened security alert for its release.
McCain said that while "the truth is a hard pill to swallow...the American people are entitled to it." And he acknowledged that violence against the U.S. from the "Muslim world" is "possible..perhaps likely," but argued that America's enemies "hardly need an excuse" to attack the nation, so the good done by the release of the report should trump any security concerns.
"This report strengthens self-government and, ultimately, I believe, America's security and stature in the world," he said.
During his comments, McCain referenced his own experience with torture and argued that it "produces more misleading information than actionable intelligence," and that "we can and we will" win the war on terrorism without such techniques.
But he argued that the U.S. shouldn't resort to such tactics not just because they're ineffective and potentially dangerous, but because they undermine the nation's values and beliefs.
"I have often said, and will always maintain, that this question isn't about our enemies; it's about us. It's about who we were, who we are and who we aspire to be. It's about how we represent ourselves to the world," he said.
McCain added: "When we fight to defend our security we fight also for an idea...that all men are endowed by the Creator with inalienable rights."
"Our enemies act without conscience. We must not," he added.
so what...everyone else does it too
I'd like to see Muzak (and certain satellite radio stations) taken to task for torturing me with Whitney Houston's version of "I'll Always Love You", Shaniah Twain's ... whatever that stoopid a$$ song is where she goes "uh-uh-oh" all the way through it, that waaaay overplayed Katy Perry tune (Eye of the Tiger) and Phil Collins, "In the Air at Night". There's no telling how many suicides that have occurred that can be directly linked to hearing any of these songs one freakin' time too often! It's time that these music services came clean with the American and world public!
so what...everyone else does it too
I'd like to see Muzak (and certain satellite radio stations) taken to task for torturing me with Whitney Houston's version of "I'll Always Love You", Shaniah Twain's ... whatever that stoopid a$$ song is where she goes "uh-uh-oh" all the way through it, that waaaay overplayed Katy Perry tune (Eye of the Tiger) and Phil Collins, "In the Air at Night". There's no telling how many suicides that have occurred that can be directly linked to hearing any of these songs one freakin' time too often! It's time that these music services came clean with the American and world public!
LOL
why does all this need to be made public? why do these politicians, Feinstein in particular, have to parade themselves and this report and wave it in the publics face? all embassys are on high alert. what purpose does it serve? do I really need to know this information? that should be a matter between the WH and the CIA and the military; strictly an in house affair. All it did was piss off al Qaeda. Certain things I just don't need to know. It's like we're saying, "yes, al Qaeda, we tortured, unjustly, your kin. We're sorry". I think it's idiotic.
Y'know it's a great idea that if we disclose the type of stuff that we did on detainees that folks like ISIS or Al Qaeda will stop their own torturing and publicly televised beheadings or even flying planes into tall buildings. Get back to me on how this works out.
In the end - bottom line, if there's ever someone knows something that our guys REALLY want/need to know - they'll come up with something to make them talk. It'll just be a lot more covert next time.
why does all this need to be made public? why do these politicians, Feinstein in particular, have to parade themselves and this report and wave it in the publics face? all embassys are on high alert. what purpose does it serve? do I really need to know this information? that should be a matter between the WH and the CIA and the military; strictly an in house affair. All it did was piss off al Qaeda. Certain things I just don't need to know. It's like we're saying, "yes, al Qaeda, we tortured, unjustly, your kin. We're sorry". I think it's idiotic.
I think John McCain did a pretty good job of spelling out why it is important.
Y'know it's a great idea that if we disclose the type of stuff that we did on detainees that folks like ISIS or Al Qaeda will stop their own torturing and publicly televised beheadings or even flying planes into tall buildings. Get back to me on how this works out.
This is a case where fighting fire with fire is not only a strategic mistake, it is morally, ethically, Constitutionally and humanly wrong and unAmerican. We are better than them.
why does all this need to be made public? why do these politicians, Feinstein in particular, have to parade themselves and this report and wave it in the publics face? all embassys are on high alert. what purpose does it serve? do I really need to know this information? that should be a matter between the WH and the CIA and the military; strictly an in house affair. All it did was piss off al Qaeda. Certain things I just don't need to know. It's like we're saying, "yes, al Qaeda, we tortured, unjustly, your kin. We're sorry". I think it's idiotic.
We are a democracy. This was done "in our name". The taxpayers paid for this. The people were systematically lied to by the CIA and the Bush administration. Bush himself, nearly two years after he knew the facts said the USA does not torture.
Our actions are a direct violation of the Geneva Conventions. The people responsible are war criminals. That is a fact.
Why do you not want to know? This is allegedly a government by the People, for the People.
Why do you want to keep trusting a government and a CIA that systematically manipulates the Press into feeding the people lies?
You think Feinstein is the bad guy in all this? That seems a really warped take away.
The implications of the report are profound. "I don't think it's hype to say that there has never been a day like this in American history," said legal analyst Jeffery Toobin on CNN last night. "We didn't treat the Nazis like this. We didn't' treat the Vietcong like this. This is something that is without precedent in American history."
Just don't blame George Bush. He's painting now and wrote the wonderful book about his Dad.anyone with this artistic bent would never torture.He was our greatest Pres. Ever. Everyone join together fight the terror. 😮 😮 😮 😛
so what...everyone else does it too
I'd like to see Muzak (and certain satellite radio stations) taken to task for torturing me with Whitney Houston's version of "I'll Always Love You", Shaniah Twain's ... whatever that stoopid a$$ song is where she goes "uh-uh-oh" all the way through it, that waaaay overplayed Katy Perry tune (Eye of the Tiger) and Phil Collins, "In the Air at Night". There's no telling how many suicides that have occurred that can be directly linked to hearing any of these songs one freakin' time too often! It's time that these music services came clean with the American and world public!
CIA 'torture' methods included these 21 songs, artists
PLUS: See some really dang annoying songs they easily could have used, as well.
By John Boyd | April 24, 2014
If hearing Barney the dinosaur sing "I Love You" one more time seems like torture, try it on a loop for the next 24 hours.
According to a new piece on the Huffington Post by Andy Worthington, author of "The Guantanamo files," the children's show song that became the musical earworm of the '90s was one of many songs used by the CIA to enhance interrogation techniques in the War on Terror.
Songs used by the CIA varied wildly from children's songs and popular commercial jingles all the way to American hip-hop and death metal.
The variety often was intentional, intended to jar the senses, Worthington said. Prisoners would spend hours listening to a song like "Take Your Best Shot" by the metal band Dope on a constant loop, only to hear it get replaced unceremoniously by the Meow Mix cat food jingle.
In the moment, the juxtaposition of songs was funny. But eventually, it could grow maddening, Worthington writes.
American music – whether from commercials or actual songs – helped drown out the prisoners' inner thoughts, Worthington said, without providing them a familiar song from their own culture for which to escape into. Genres like heavy metal were particularly effective, because many Muslims had never heard anything like it before.
Interrogators often resorted to musical themes. The "bad Muslim," for example, often played on devout Muslim men's inclination toward sexual purity and/or celibacy by pairing sexually-explicit songs with interrogation by female interviewers.
In another variation of "bad Muslim," interrogators played Arabic music on the first day of Ramadan, which the subject believed was against Islamic law.
Another major aspect of "music torture," Worthington writes, was the seemingly random nature of when music would come on or turn off in order to affect sleep patterns.
Not all of the artists whose music was used were happy with the practice. Singer David Gray is one of many artists to ask for his music to be removed from the CIA's playlist.
"What we're talking about here is people in a darkened room, physically inhibited by handcuffs, bags over their heads and music blaring at them. That is torture. That is nothing but torture. It doesn't matter what the music is - it could be Tchaikovsky's finest or it could be Barney the Dinosaur. It really doesn't matter, it's going to drive you completely nuts."
why does all this need to be made public? why do these politicians, Feinstein in particular, have to parade themselves and this report and wave it in the publics face? all embassys are on high alert. what purpose does it serve? do I really need to know this information? that should be a matter between the WH and the CIA and the military; strictly an in house affair. All it did was piss off al Qaeda. Certain things I just don't need to know. It's like we're saying, "yes, al Qaeda, we tortured, unjustly, your kin. We're sorry". I think it's idiotic.
We are a democracy. This was done "in our name". The taxpayers paid for this. The people were systematically lied to by the CIA and the Bush administration. Bush himself, nearly two years after he knew the facts said the USA does not torture.
Our actions are a direct violation of the Geneva Conventions. The people responsible are war criminals. That is a fact.
Why do you not want to know? This is allegedly a government by the People, for the People.
Why do you want to keep trusting a government and a CIA that systematically manipulates the Press into feeding the people lies?
You think Feinstein is the bad guy in all this? That seems a really warped take away.
okay...so now you know. Now what? What are you (not you, us) going to do with this info? Chastise the CIA? Bush? Feel bad that we aren't the ethically all American people we say we are? I just don't see the point in making this a huge...and public issue. I have no real problem with Feinstein being the point person on this, it could've been Mickey Mouse for all I care. And we all know this will pass, here and nationally after a while until something else comes along to divert our short attention spans. This will be page 2 in a week and we still won't trust the government.
again, what do you want to do about this?
The implications of the report are profound. "I don't think it's hype to say that there has never been a day like this in American history," said legal analyst Jeffery Toobin on CNN last night. "We didn't treat the Nazis like this. We didn't' treat the Vietcong like this. This is something that is without precedent in American history."
Ummm, I guess the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII doesn't count?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans
why does all this need to be made public? why do these politicians, Feinstein in particular, have to parade themselves and this report and wave it in the publics face? all embassys are on high alert. what purpose does it serve? do I really need to know this information? that should be a matter between the WH and the CIA and the military; strictly an in house affair. All it did was piss off al Qaeda. Certain things I just don't need to know. It's like we're saying, "yes, al Qaeda, we tortured, unjustly, your kin. We're sorry". I think it's idiotic.
We are a democracy. This was done "in our name". The taxpayers paid for this. The people were systematically lied to by the CIA and the Bush administration. Bush himself, nearly two years after he knew the facts said the USA does not torture.
Our actions are a direct violation of the Geneva Conventions. The people responsible are war criminals. That is a fact.
Why do you not want to know? This is allegedly a government by the People, for the People.
Why do you want to keep trusting a government and a CIA that systematically manipulates the Press into feeding the people lies?
You think Feinstein is the bad guy in all this? That seems a really warped take away.
okay...so now you know. Now what? What are you (not you, us) going to do with this info? Chastise the CIA? Bush? Feel bad that we aren't the ethically all American people we say we are? I just don't see the point in making this a huge...and public issue. I have no real problem with Feinstein being the point person on this, it could've been Mickey Mouse for all I care. And we all know this will pass, here and nationally after a while until something else comes along to divert our short attention spans. This will be page 2 in a week and we still won't trust the government.
again, what do you want to do about this?
The only way to stop it and make sure it doesn't happen again is to know about it.
If you consider waterboarding an evil thing to do, what makes killing someone with a drone any better? Just a question.
"...But despite the gruesome details, nobody at the CIA or in the military has been prosecuted for any wrongdoing related to the brutal interrogations. And it doesn't appear that's about to change.
It's up to the Justice Department to decide if legal charges should be brought. Beginning in 2009, John Durham, a special prosecutor appointed by Attorney General Eric Holder, looked into allegations of people being mistreated while in the custody of the U.S. government after the 9/11 attacks and ended up conducting two criminal investigations. But the Justice Department declined to prosecute in either case on the grounds that the admissible evidence wasn't sufficient "to obtain and sustain convictions beyond a reasonable doubt," according to a department spokesman.
That team of investigators has since reviewed the full Senate report, said the spokesman on Tuesday, but "did not find any new information" they hadn't previously considered in determining illegal activity."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/09/doj-torture_n_6298276.html
why does all this need to be made public? why do these politicians, Feinstein in particular, have to parade themselves and this report and wave it in the publics face? all embassys are on high alert. what purpose does it serve? do I really need to know this information? that should be a matter between the WH and the CIA and the military; strictly an in house affair. All it did was piss off al Qaeda. Certain things I just don't need to know. It's like we're saying, "yes, al Qaeda, we tortured, unjustly, your kin. We're sorry". I think it's idiotic.
We are a democracy. This was done "in our name". The taxpayers paid for this. The people were systematically lied to by the CIA and the Bush administration. Bush himself, nearly two years after he knew the facts said the USA does not torture.
Our actions are a direct violation of the Geneva Conventions. The people responsible are war criminals. That is a fact.
Why do you not want to know? This is allegedly a government by the People, for the People.
Why do you want to keep trusting a government and a CIA that systematically manipulates the Press into feeding the people lies?
You think Feinstein is the bad guy in all this? That seems a really warped take away.
okay...so now you know. Now what? What are you (not you, us) going to do with this info? Chastise the CIA? Bush? Feel bad that we aren't the ethically all American people we say we are? I just don't see the point in making this a huge...and public issue. I have no real problem with Feinstein being the point person on this, it could've been Mickey Mouse for all I care. And we all know this will pass, here and nationally after a while until something else comes along to divert our short attention spans. This will be page 2 in a week and we still won't trust the government.
again, what do you want to do about this?
The only way to stop it and make sure it doesn't happen again is to know about it.
right. That's why my ex girlfriends are ex girlfriends. They just kept doing it, as much as I often knew they were lying. Knowing about it changes or fixes nothing and no one.
again, what are we, as American citizens, supposed to do with this information? ok, so we know. Now what? March to Crawford, Tx and demand W's head? Picket the CIA?
If you consider waterboarding an evil thing to do, what makes killing someone with a drone any better? Just a question.
Why is it one or the other? The United States tried, convicted and imprisoned Japanese soldier found guilty of water boarding US citizens during WWII. It is illegal under the Geneva Conventions. Do you want future governments to enter into treaties with the United States? Do you think breaking a treaty helps foreign relations?
When did anyone say killing someone with a drone was better than waterboarding?
Why can't you comment on the torture report instead of changing the subject?
okay...so now you know. Now what? What are you (not you, us) going to do with this info? Chastise the CIA? Bush? Feel bad that we aren't the ethically all American people we say we are?
Gee? What do we do when other people break the law? We are a society of laws. The people guilty of these illegal acts need to be tried and punished for the war crimes they committed.
again, what are we, as American citizens, supposed to do with this information? ok, so we know. Now what? March to Crawford, Tx and demand W's head? Picket the CIA?
What will the American people do? Watch television and eat fast food. The bottom line piacere is you, I, every tax payer is funding all kinds of murder and mayhem. The United States military is the largest organization in the world. They are untouchable. They have huge budgets and massive secret budgets we will never know about.
I prefer to know how much blood is on my hands. Yes, it disgusts me. Yes I know I can't do anything about what our military is doing in my name. At least I have my outrage.
Sure I live in and enjoy the benefits of the greatest empire on Earth. But I can't ignore the cost.
why does all this need to be made public? why do these politicians, Feinstein in particular, have to parade themselves and this report and wave it in the publics face? all embassys are on high alert. what purpose does it serve? do I really need to know this information? that should be a matter between the WH and the CIA and the military; strictly an in house affair. All it did was piss off al Qaeda. Certain things I just don't need to know. It's like we're saying, "yes, al Qaeda, we tortured, unjustly, your kin. We're sorry". I think it's idiotic.
The administration had a moral obligation to make this public. So to avoid political bias they were as honest as they were with Bengahzi. What a second "I don't think we're in Kansas any more"
The administration had a moral obligation to make this public.
Isn't the administration withholding key information protecting the last administration?
Kerry tried to stop Feinstein from releasing the report.
The administration had a moral obligation to make this public.
Isn't the administration withholding key information protecting the last administration?
Kerry tried to stop Feinstein from releasing the report.
My sarcasm didn't make it through in my post. The administration is dragging the Republicans through the mud on this; and on Benghazi they swept everything under the road. This move is 100% political with 2016 on the horizon
They still defend their tactics.
Today, agency veterans including ex-CIA Director George Tenet launchedciasavedlives.com, where they will post opinion articles and documents challenging the Senate report's findings and conclusions.
Remarks: I think there needs to be a standard of humanity that applies to ALL human beings. I do not think detainees need to be tortured. The Cia assumption is that the fighters are like normal people in beliefs and actions. They are not. Normal people if tortured will talk. Mujahids will not, just because you are torturing them. Those who believe their jihad is just and permissible would have no problem telling you what they want to do or plan to do. Zacharias Moussaoui told Judge Brinkema he was training for an operation the next year, he told her her had nothing to do with the 9.11.01 attacks but he was training for something else the next year. Did she have to torture him to get that? No, he volunteered it.
Does torture get some info? Probably so, but the greater issue is, if you kill one man or stop him, another will take up the cause. Even the Islamic State leaders have said if you kill them, then their sons or grandsons will continue on. So what is the goal? Mass genocide disguised as a war on terror?
The administration had a moral obligation to make this public.
Isn't the administration withholding key information protecting the last administration?
Kerry tried to stop Feinstein from releasing the report.
My sarcasm didn't make it through in my post. The administration is dragging the Republicans through the mud on this; and on Benghazi they swept everything under the road. This move is 100% political with 2016 on the horizon
Benghazi has been investigated multiple times and a Republican lead committee found no wrong doing by Obama, Clinton or the State Department. Dragging the Republicans through the mud? The entire party? No, accusations are against the former president and his administration.
