It's worse than Watergate in collusion allegations. It is scary.
America IS watching.
This isn't news. It's what has been said for months. What impeachment & now the trial has done is laid everything out for everyone to see w/o interruption by tweets or TV analysts or supporters. It's unadulterated facts. There are no valid defenses so all McConnell has is diversion. This is just the organizational phase. The actual case w/specifics won't start presentation until tomorrow.
What's scary is that the outcome is presumed to be predetermined to allow Trump to remain in office no matter how clear & strong the facts.
People have to look at what he has done. His policies and ideas. Just this weekend he said he will not fund the seawall that NYC needs due to climate change. The Army Corps of Engineers spent considerable time submitting the proposal. His response was it was too expensive, bad for the environment so New Yorkers should just get their mops and buckets ready for the sea level rise and storm surge problems. It is even on his Twitter so we know he said it just the way it was reported. How do you write off 11+ million people effected by that?
People have to look at what he has done. His policies and ideas.
For the next two weeks, Americans & the world to some extent will be watching his trial. He has no policies or ideas. He has uncontrollable impulses & tantrums. That's who he is & has been before he was elected.
IF the Republicans are innocent, they should answer the questions from the Democrats, and prove it.
Just refusing all the amendments offerred to the bill yesterday show they want to hide.
And all the Senators who just vote along party lines without giving any consideration to what has been presented are worse than liars, they do not represent the people. They only represent themselves. It is un-American.
He literally brags about keeping the evidence.
Trump Brags About Concealing Impeachment Evidence: ‘We Have All the Material, They Don’t’
Many of his supporters are already ashamed to admit it in person. I’m so thankful that I can be proud of my choices. Must suck to have to hide who you are.
Schiff's opening statement was correct. The defense can't dispute any of the facts nor can they redefine impeachment. All they can say is "so what?" Yes, DJT's corrupt, he continues to ask for foreign interference in US elections, & the Senate refuses to remove him.
Whereas corruption & undue influence at the polls used to be domestic (poll taxes, literacy tests, deceased voters still on the rolls), the influence is now from sophisticated foreign meddling. What's that going to do to voter turnout? Why should I vote if the results are fixed by Russia or China or N. Korea? It really won't matter who votes.
And all the Senators who just vote along party lines without giving any consideration to what has been presented are worse than liars, they do not represent the people. They only represent themselves. It is un-American.
I get why Trump is scared - he leaves office & then goes straight to trial in any one of multiple jurisdictions investigating him.
What's w/the rest of them? Are their constituents going to reject them because they were Trump's lackeys rather than respected legislators? Big deal. Someone else will represent their state for 6 years; the world isn't going to end. No one is going to be as corrupt as that group of 52 glued to Trump/McConnell. It's not un-American; it's anti-American.
Hillary is so pissed off with Sanders, she may run again and this time, she may win in 2020.
Meanwhile back at the Hill,
Republican Senator Rand Paul told the Washington Post on Wednesday that 45 Senators are prepared to dismiss impeachment charges against President Donald Trump.
"There are 45, with about five to eight wanting to hear a little more," Paul said. "I will push it at some point...The more Adam Schiff speaks, the more we become unified."
Republicans need 51 votes to dismiss the charges. Republican leadership has indicated they do not want to dismiss the charges.
Hillary is so pissed off with Sanders, she may run again and this time, she may win in 2020.
No, she's just promoting her documentary.
It's like Hamilton was thinking of Trump back in 1792:
"When a man unprincipled in private life desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, possessed of considerable talents, having the ability of military habits—despotic in his ordinary demeanor—known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty—when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity—to join in the cry of danger to liberty—to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion—to flatter and fall in with all the nonsense of the zealots of the day—It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.'"
It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.'"
And there's never a denial by his own supporters that he fits this description - they simply say, "yeah, so what?" Do his supporters think they don't deserve better or something? If you choose to follow a person like Trump, aren't you saying that you don't think very much of yourself or the United States?
I maybe understood during the campaign that people who just saw the superficial reality TV star - brash rich womanizer - would eventually see that he was only a brash womanizer. Not rich. Not a great deal maker. Not even smart. OK. Maybe that gets him elected. Three years & dozens of examples of corruption & stupidity later, one would think they'd catch on. Apparently not.
The disheartening thing to me is that the entire GOP is willing to give him a pass even thought they see him deliberately "throwing things into confusion" at his whim. I'm beginning to think we don't deserve better because we're allowing a mafioso to run the country & hand it to Russia when he's done.
Franklin's argument for including impeachment instead of waiting for the next election was more succinct: "assassination."
[Edited on 1/23/2020 by cyclone88]
Wow that 1792 Hamilton quote is dead on. I wonder who he was thinking of at the time? Maybe a lot of people surfing the revolution wave.
Well, he & Jefferson strongly disliked Burr....
I'm looking forward to today's session when the prosecutors present the constitutional history/meaning of impeachment. They've already given a preview w/Hamilton's fear that a man like Trump could get into office, abuse it, & have to be removed. Others were adamant that waiting for voters every 4 years didn't work because if the occupant won by corruption, he'd use corrupt methods for re-election. They all seemed to agree that mere incompetence or laziness wasn't enough to remove a president so they debated exactly what the standard would be.
The primary point the prosecution has made so far is to remind us that the Founders used British terminology. They wanted a mechanism that focused on the obvious - crimes like treason - as well as misuse of the office for personal gain (as kings enriched themselves). It will be interesting to hear the HR take on how that happened & why the impeachment mechanism was included as written. Franklin believed a president would welcome this method because the alternative was that a corrupt president was likely to be assassinated - guns & duels being popular in the late 18th century. [Hamilton was eventually killed by Burr in a duel after serving as VP.]
Today, it seems the miscalculation of the Founders was to put the impeachment trial in the hands of the Senate because they believed it to be the most prestigious & honorable body who would find it insulting to have a corrupt jerk be their co-equal branch of government. The judiciary was never really considered. Who could possibly have foreseen 230 years later a partisan Senate so spellbound or bewitched by or fearful of an unstable man that they would completely shirk their constitutional duties & loyalties to protect him? Apparently, their notions of a senator being a man of high intellect & honor has diminished over the centuries.
It's a free history lesson for anyone who wants to watch & of course, they repeat their arguments to drive home the point & let viewers tune in/out & still get the point.
Wow that 1792 Hamilton quote is dead on. I wonder who he was thinking of at the time? Maybe a lot of people surfing the revolution wave.
Well, he & Jefferson strongly disliked Burr....
This guy?
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Aaron-Burr
Well, he & Jefferson strongly disliked Burr....
This guy?
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Aaron-Burr
Yes. Quite a colorful guy, womanizer, cocky, loved soldiering, stole some of the LA Purchase, tried to give FL back to Spain, got entangled in corrupt NY politics, made & lost money & of course, killed Hamilton in a duel.
These Founders had remarkable minds, but they were a lively bunch. Washington was perceived by all of them to be not the smartest, but a gentleman, great soldier, likeable, and popular w/The People. They're not the stuffy pompous guys we remember from elementary history lessons. Almost all of them were atheists w/a few exceptions but went to the Anglican church to keep up appearances.
Their biographies are interesting. Gore Vidal wrote a fictional bio of Burr in 1973. It was the first mass market "bio" to suggest the Founders weren't pious wel-behaved intellectuals who sat around discussing theories of law.
I was joking that he was the man Hamilton had in mind in that quote - although Hamilton cast the deciding vote that kept Burr from becoming president. It could've been anyone, especially some Delaware politicians he clashed with, or an imagined combination of traits. The point was that between the British royals and some corrupt moneyed men in the Colonies/States, Hamilton knew spoiled rich guys w/military training who were womanizers, drinkers, & out for themselves & didn't mind whether things were legal or not. Burr just came to mind.
Lindsey Graham already admitted that he's siding with Trump, despite opposing everything about it, because, in his words, "it's smart politics". in other words, he believes it's a way to keep his job. these Senators were faced with a choice: protect the integrity and safety of the United States, but then have to start a new career at a late state in their lives.....or hope Trump doesn't cause the downfall of the U.S., and then get to keep their careers. they chose the latter.
i'd completely understand that position of wanting to keep your job, if the only threat was a pissed off left. but Trump has demonstrated over and over and over again, a desire to fight our allies and praise our adversaries. he's likely to give up classified information to foreign dictators simply because they flattered him. his deranged temper could cause him to fly off the handle and make a pact with a foreign adversary, which could open the door for an unstoppable flow of foreign interference until they have infiltrated our government, and slowly taken over. Trump is more than willing to do this if he feels insulted in any way. A vote for Trump places the entire United States on a fragile house of cards. It's unfathomable that people are willing to put this country in such exterme risk, to the point of its potential downfall. the irresponsibility and lack of common sense is an extreme danger to us all. i never thought i'd experience a threat like this in my lifetime.
As you say, most of the leaders like McConnell & Graham are at the end of their careers w/substantial assets. McConnell is presumed to be worth $25mm & Graham $4mm. I don't think either are worried about losing a Senate salary. One would think they'd want to protect their reputations & legacy by standing up to an unhinged dictator-wannabe who encourages distrust of every national institution. By accepting that foreign interference influenced the outcome of the 2016 election & Trump's asking for help from Russia & China to win in 2020, the average American voter has no reason to go to the polls. Russia is pulling the levers.
I have to say, if the GOP defense is going to be that "sure, he invited foreign influence for his personal political gain, no question, but since it's technically not a crime, he shouldn't be removed from office." Dershowitz, their key constitutional scholar (who has taught criminal law but not con law) has done a 180 from his position re Clinton's impeachment that there doesn't have to be a crime.
What's really scary, he said this:
“Assume Putin decides to ‘retake’ Alaska, the way he ‘retook’ Crimea,” Dershowitz wrote in a 2018 book. “Assume further that a president allows him to do it, because he believed that Russia has a legitimate claim to ‘its’ original territory.” Even that would not merit impeachment and removal by Dershowitz’s standards.
Is that what we're supposed to believe? I guess we can give FL back to Spain & Texas/California to Mexico & Louisiana back to the French. It's beyond ludicrous! People don't think Trump is dangerous because he's a republican or conservative or whatever his brand is; it's because he's dangerous.
[Edited on 1/24/2020 by cyclone88]
I no longer view the whole impeachment process as a witch hunt. Not with the slides, testimonies taken during the closed door sessions. They have went day by day, shown the emails, phone call logs.
What is disturbing is the untruthfulness. Trump knew Parnas.
Trump has said repeatedly he does not know Parnas, a Soviet-born American who has emerged as a wild card in Trump’s impeachment trial, especially in the days since Trump was impeached.
"Get rid of her!" is what the voice that appears to be Trump’s is heard saying. "Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. OK? Do it."
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/her-recording-appears-capture-trump-private-dinner-saying-160928391.html
https://hillreporter.com/lev-parnas-worked-for-the-trump-organization-in-the-1980s-55935
He worked for Trump’s Father Fred in the 1980’s in Florida, his son worked on Trump’s campaign.
Parnas named Guiliani his son’s Godfather. Just a few weeks before the final farewell for the nation's 41st president, Giuliani invited Parnas to join him at Shelly's Back Room, a clubby Washington retreat for cigar and whiskey aficionados.
Trying to keep Parnas quiet.
https://www.salon.com/2020/01/17/lev-parnas-implicates-rick-perry-in-ukraine-scandal-as-he-clears-joe-biden-of-wrongdoing/
Why can't he just admit that he was acquainted with him.
[Edited on 1/24/2020 by gina]
I no longer view the whole impeachment process as a witch hunt. Not with the slides, testimonies taken during the closed door sessions. They have went day by day, shown the emails, phone call logs.
What is disturbing is the untruthfulness. Trump knew Parnas.
Trump has said repeatedly he does not know Parnas, a Soviet-born American who has emerged as a wild card in Trump’s impeachment trial, especially in the days since Trump was impeached.
"Get rid of her!" is what the voice that appears to be Trump’s is heard saying. "Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. OK? Do it."
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/her-recording-appears-capture-trump-private-dinner-saying-160928391.html
https://hillreporter.com/lev-parnas-worked-for-the-trump-organization-in-the-1980s-55935
He worked for Trump’s Father Fred in the 1980’s in Florida, his son worked on Trump’s campaign.Parnas named Guiliani his son’s Godfather. Just a few weeks before the final farewell for the nation's 41st president, Giuliani invited Parnas to join him at Shelly's Back Room, a clubby Washington retreat for cigar and whiskey aficionados.
Trying to keep Parnas quiet.
https://www.salon.com/2020/01/17/lev-parnas-implicates-rick-perry-in-ukraine-scandal-as-he-clears-joe-biden-of-wrongdoing/Why can't he just admit that he was acquainted with him.
[Edited on 1/24/2020 by gina]
So Gina, as of late you have seemed to flip from your devoted loyalty to Comrade Trump. Does that mean you've hit the smelling sauce, entered the world of Trump reality, and will vote against him later this year? Or will you still vote for this traitor and self serving zealot? If you've been watching the hearings, it is evident that he and his band of lackeys have been working for his personal benefit and against what is good for America.
I no longer view the whole impeachment process as a witch hunt. Not with the slides, testimonies taken during the closed door sessions. They have went day by day, shown the emails, phone call logs.
What is disturbing is the untruthfulness. Trump knew Parnas.
Trump has said repeatedly he does not know Parnas, a Soviet-born American who has emerged as a wild card in Trump’s impeachment trial, especially in the days since Trump was impeached.
"Get rid of her!" is what the voice that appears to be Trump’s is heard saying. "Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. OK? Do it."
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/her-recording-appears-capture-trump-private-dinner-saying-160928391.html
https://hillreporter.com/lev-parnas-worked-for-the-trump-organization-in-the-1980s-55935
He worked for Trump’s Father Fred in the 1980’s in Florida, his son worked on Trump’s campaign.Parnas named Guiliani his son’s Godfather. Just a few weeks before the final farewell for the nation's 41st president, Giuliani invited Parnas to join him at Shelly's Back Room, a clubby Washington retreat for cigar and whiskey aficionados.
Trying to keep Parnas quiet.
https://www.salon.com/2020/01/17/lev-parnas-implicates-rick-perry-in-ukraine-scandal-as-he-clears-joe-biden-of-wrongdoing/Why can't he just admit that he was acquainted with him.
[Edited on 1/24/2020 by gina]
So Gina, as of late you have seemed to flip from your devoted loyalty to Comrade Trump. Does that mean you've hit the smelling sauce, entered the world of Trump reality, and will vote against him later this year? Or will you still vote for this traitor and self serving zealot? If you've been watching the hearings, it is evident that he and his band of lackeys have been working for his personal benefit and against what is good for America.
Anytime I see a post by gina the outer limits theme just runs through my head...do do de da do do de da do do de da
I no longer view the whole impeachment process as a witch hunt. Not with the slides, testimonies taken during the closed door sessions. They have went day by day, shown the emails, phone call logs.
What is disturbing is the untruthfulness. Trump knew Parnas.
Trump has said repeatedly he does not know Parnas, a Soviet-born American who has emerged as a wild card in Trump’s impeachment trial, especially in the days since Trump was impeached.
"Get rid of her!" is what the voice that appears to be Trump’s is heard saying. "Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. OK? Do it."
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/her-recording-appears-capture-trump-private-dinner-saying-160928391.html
https://hillreporter.com/lev-parnas-worked-for-the-trump-organization-in-the-1980s-55935
He worked for Trump’s Father Fred in the 1980’s in Florida, his son worked on Trump’s campaign.Parnas named Guiliani his son’s Godfather. Just a few weeks before the final farewell for the nation's 41st president, Giuliani invited Parnas to join him at Shelly's Back Room, a clubby Washington retreat for cigar and whiskey aficionados.
Trying to keep Parnas quiet.
https://www.salon.com/2020/01/17/lev-parnas-implicates-rick-perry-in-ukraine-scandal-as-he-clears-joe-biden-of-wrongdoing/Why can't he just admit that he was acquainted with him.
[Edited on 1/24/2020 by gina]
So Gina, as of late you have seemed to flip from your devoted loyalty to Comrade Trump. Does that mean you've hit the smelling sauce, entered the world of Trump reality, and will vote against him later this year? Or will you still vote for this traitor and self serving zealot? If you've been watching the hearings, it is evident that he and his band of lackeys have been working for his personal benefit and against what is good for America.
I am seeing a side I have not seen. If he is using the FBI to try to screw people behind their backs, no I will not vote for him. The end of the Mueller/Comey days should have ended the witch hunts for people who want peace for the Afghans. Two months ago I got a message. Me not happy.
This just in, Lev Parnas gave a tape of that meeting where he was with Trump when he was told to get Yovanovich fired to his lawyer. Parnas gave it to his lawyer. His lawyer gave it to the Intelligence Committee of the Impeachment hearings. Schiff etal.
This happened tonight.
This just in, Lev Parnas gave a tape of that meeting where he was with Trump when he was told to get Yovanovich fired to his lawyer. Parnas gave it to his lawyer. His lawyer gave it to the Intelligence Committee of the Impeachment hearings. Schiff etal.
This happened tonight.
This is the same honest prez we have who says he doesn't know Parnas. There have been lots & lots of pictures shown with Trump in multiple settings with Trump & Parnas, Trump's kids and Parnas, and Rudy & Parnas. But ever wonder why Trump disavows knowing Parnas?
IN addition to the dirty work Lev did for Trump & Rudy, there's lots of money he directed to Trump & the RNC.
"Three years later, down to the same month, the Justice Department on Oct. 10 unsealed an indictment of Parnas for using a straw donor and laundering foreign money into U.S. elections. Federal prosecutors claim he and his Fraud Guarantee co-owner, Igor Fruman, used the shell company Global Energy Producers to funnel $325,000 in foreign cash into America First Action, a Trump super-PAC.
Federal records show that the total donations from Parnas, Fruman, Global Energy Producers and an alter ego identified by prosecutors exceeded $620,000."
It's a good thing that Trump doesn't know Parnas. Bet the GOP senators won't vote to allow to have Parnas speak to that body & the American public to tell his story during the impeachment hearings. No need for witnesses even though 70+ pct of the public wants to hear from witnesses. Guess the GOP senators are fair in the hearings and not protecting Trump.
It's a good thing that Trump doesn't know Parnas.
And yet there's that tape of Trump telling Parnas about then-Ambassador Yavanovich: “Get rid of her! Get her out tomorrow. I don’t care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. O.K.? Do it.”
TAKE HER OUT????? This is what POTUS tells hired thugs? DO IT.
I no longer view the whole impeachment process as a witch hunt. Not with the slides, testimonies taken during the closed door sessions. They have went day by day, shown the emails, phone call logs. What is disturbing is the untruthfulness.
And this is why impeachment - to hold the president accountable - is important. Ardent Trump supporters who actually listen to the facts in chronological order bolstered by under oath testimony & video w/o interruption see the truth. They look at DJT in a new way. They change the way they plan to vote.
GOP senators may not have the guts to put an end to the reign of this man who believes himself to be above the law, but the American people at least learn exactly who he is.
Impeachment DOES NOT OVERTURN THE 2016 ELECTION RESULTS. Trump was sworn in & has been prez since Jan. 2017 during which time he conducted himself in a way that is contrary to the constitution re Ukraine. Trump will ALWAYS be the 45th president of the US.
Impeachment DOESN'T RIP UP 2020 BALLOTS. There are no ballots as of today. Trump isn't even the GOP nominee yet.
Impeachment DOESN'T LEAVE A VOID in the Executive branch. There is a succession plan in the constitution. Pence would become president should Trump be removed from office just as Ford became president when Nixon resigned from office. There will still be a 2020 election. The GOP nominee will be determined by the GOP just as it has since the GOP existed.
If the defense is lying in its first statement to the senate & Americans, more lies will be sure to follow.
[Edited on 1/25/2020 by cyclone88]
Impeachment DOES NOT OVERTURN THE 2016 ELECTION RESULTS. Trump was sworn in & has been prez since Jan. 2017 during which time he conducted himself in a way that is contrary to the constitution re Ukraine. Trump will ALWAYS be the 45th president of the US.
If the defense is lying in its first statement to the senate & Americans, more lies will be sure to follow.
[Edited on 1/25/2020 by cyclone88]
This is one of the Trump go to strategies for the media as he talks to the sheep. Nothing could be further from the truth. He won the election...great. Now, what has he done since the election?That is what is being examined. The case full of facts and chronologically laid out detail after detail after detail has been presented in spite of Trump refusing to turn over yet additional evidence and allowing additional corroborating witnesses to testify. If he is so innocent he would not be afraid of evidence and witnesses.
70% + of the American public wants witnesses. Mitch & the enablers are not listening nor do they care.
More and more info. coming out daily about Trump's amateur syndicate in action...How the Senators on the Republican side of the aisle continue to bury their heads in the sand is pretty telling just how afraid they are of Trump and his base.....F*cking cowards is what they are and only worried about their own self interests. So much for the party of "National Security."
It seems the stable genius never bothered to check to see if his co-conspirators were taping his conversations with them. Truly a stable genius....For all his experience hanging with the mafia types back in the day he seems way over confident that the rats won't jump ship when the ship begins to sink...
Lastly, while little Caligula may escape impeachment, good ole Rudy may be indicted any day now as he's entwined in this illegal act up to his neck. I relish the day his self-serving traitor @ss is disbarred and escorted into the federal pen....
More and more info. coming out daily about Trump's amateur syndicate in action...How the Senators on the Republican side of the aisle continue to bury their heads in the sand is pretty telling just how afraid they are of Trump and his base.....F*cking cowards is what they are and only worried about their own self interests. So much for the party of "National Security."
It seems the stable genius never bothered to check to see if his co-conspirators were taping his conversations with them. Truly a stable genius....For all his experience hanging with the mafia types back in the day he seems way over confident that the rats won't jump ship when the ship begins to sink...
Lastly, while little Caligula may escape impeachment, good ole Rudy may be indicted any day now as he's entwined in this illegal act up to his neck. I relish the day his self-serving traitor @ss is disbarred and escorted into the federal pen....
I'm starting to believe they are actually in fear for their lives. I think they've probably have gotten some serious threats as that seems to be the way the MAGA crowd deals with life...
I'm starting to believe they are actually in fear for their lives. I think they've probably have gotten some serious threats as that seems to be the way the MAGA crowd deals with life...
Schiff skated very close to saying that in his closing: "CBS has reported that certain senators have been warned, 'Vote against the president and your head will be on a pike."
It would explain the mass exodus of GOP Congressmen who chose not to run for re-election in 2018.
It makes Trump's voice on the Parnas tape saying "TAKE HER OUT. DO IT." in reference to former Ambassador Yavanovitch even more chilling.
