I won't even get into the argument of "who created ISIS" because its utterly irrelevant.
A complete disowning of twenty years of neoconservative foreign policy in one sentence. You gonna burn all your back issues of Commentary?
I won't even get into the argument of "who created ISIS" because its utterly irrelevant.
A complete disowning of twenty years of neoconservative foreign policy in one sentence. You gonna burn all your back issues of Commentary?
_____________________________________________________________________
It is the last 7 years of Obama's failed foreign policy that brought us to the point where ISIS is winning and growing.
I won't even get into the argument of "who created ISIS" because its utterly irrelevant.
A complete disowning of twenty years of neoconservative foreign policy in one sentence. You gonna burn all your back issues of Commentary?
_____________________________________________________________________
It is the last 7 years of Obama's failed foreign policy that brought us to the point where ISIS is winning and growing.
Mule my friend, do you really believe they are winning? Do you really fear they are close to taking over the world or at least the Middle East? They control very little real territory. mostly along the rivers and major highways. small towns and a couple of small cities.
come on man
To many people spend way to much time on the internet they get stoopified! most of all the BS slung on the internet is just that BS this site seems to have some of the most un American people I have ever seen...
It also has some of the most compassionate and some of the most unwilling to see common sense folks I have ever seen and most of them have grown up without being in the service or they are in generation X the missing link group.... my point is this the vetting process takes 2 years that is good and it is a good process but it is not infallible all I see are governors saying slow down with the numbers at this point it would be easy to slip someone in that could ,maybe, cause harm in this country I am all for refugees but not those of fighting age who are leaving their country and expecting other young men to go fight in their stead.
people coming to this country should speak English, take up American ways we do not need groups who alienate themselves from the population we need people who will contribute and become part of America...
Maybe we would be a lot better off without smart phones, tablets and all the other junk that Stoopifies people and that is how they act stoopid.
Muslims when they start turning in other radical Muslims will at that point become American Muslims because the people all the people are this country when they can point the finger and say that one is radical then we will have true immigrants interested in the welfare of the country they want to live in .
Most of you folks have good hearts and care about people but some of you need to figure out which side you are on it is about God ,Country , and family, and we ALL need to help the man or woman next to you protect those things.
com·mon sense
noun
good sense and sound judgment in practical matters.
"use your common sense"
synonyms: good sense, sense, native wit, sensibleness, judgment, levelheadedness, prudence, discernment, canniness, astuteness, shrewdness, wisdom, insight, perception, perspicacity; practicality, capability, resourcefulness, enterprise; informalhorse sense, gumption, savvy, smarts, street smarts
"I had the common sense to phone an ambulance instead of yelling at him to get up"
or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense
I won't even get into the argument of "who created ISIS" because its utterly irrelevant.
A complete disowning of twenty years of neoconservative foreign policy in one sentence. You gonna burn all your back issues of Commentary?
_____________________________________________________________________
It is the last 7 years of Obama's failed foreign policy that brought us to the point where ISIS is winning and growing.
Mule my friend, do you really believe they are winning? Do you really fear they are close to taking over the world or at least the Middle East? They control very little real territory. mostly along the rivers and major highways. small towns and a couple of small cities.
come on man
_______________________________________________________________________
“do you really believe they are winning?”
- Ask a Frenchman, a Middle Eastern Christian or anyone they have beheaded, raped or murdered.
“Do you really fear they are close to taking over the world or at least the Middle East?”
- Not even close but that is not the issue either.
“They control very little real territory. mostly along the rivers and major highways. small towns and a couple of small cities.”
- In 8 countries and growing fast.
A few months back Boko Haram, the largest and most deadly Islamic Extremist Terrorist organization in Africa pledged allegiance to ISIS.
The world has a serious infection. There is only one way to stop an infection. Kill it.
For a relevant historical reference see Hitler/Nazis. They were allowed to grow unimpeded until it took a world war to stop them.
i don't need a lecture Mule. i understand what is going on. yes there are other small pockets.
i'm going to step out of these conversations in the WP for awhile. i'm starting to feel i'm getting chippy. I don't wanna get to that point.
good luck saving the world.
Muslims when they start turning in other radical Muslims will at that point become American Muslims because the people all the people are this country when they can point the finger and say that one is radical then we will have true immigrants interested in the welfare of the country they want to live in .
I think that's a great point Ryde. Until the mainstream Muslim community comes out en masse and condemns these kind of acts of violence and the perpetrators who carry them out they will all be regarded as extremists, whether that is right or wrong.
Most of you folks have good hearts and care about people
Right back at 'ya. 
i don't need a lecture Mule. i understand what is going on. yes there are other small pockets.
i'm going to step out of these conversations in the WP for awhile. i'm starting to feel i'm getting chippy. I don't wanna get to that point.
good luck saving the world.
________________________________________________________________________
"saving the world" falls to the world's leaders.
Man we are screwed.
I won't even get into the argument of "who created ISIS" because its utterly irrelevant.
A complete disowning of twenty years of neoconservative foreign policy in one sentence. You gonna burn all your back issues of Commentary?
_____________________________________________________________________
It is the last 7 years of Obama's failed foreign policy that brought us to the point where ISIS is winning and growing.
Mule my friend, do you really believe they are winning? Do you really fear they are close to taking over the world or at least the Middle East? They control very little real territory. mostly along the rivers and major highways. small towns and a couple of small cities.
come on man
_______________________________________________________________________
“do you really believe they are winning?”
- Ask a Frenchman, a Middle Eastern Christian or anyone they have beheaded, raped or murdered.“Do you really fear they are close to taking over the world or at least the Middle East?”
- Not even close but that is not the issue either.“They control very little real territory. mostly along the rivers and major highways. small towns and a couple of small cities.”
- In 8 countries and growing fast.A few months back Boko Haram, the largest and most deadly Islamic Extremist Terrorist organization in Africa pledged allegiance to ISIS.
The world has a serious infection. There is only one way to stop an infection. Kill it.
For a relevant historical reference see Hitler/Nazis. They were allowed to grow unimpeded until it took a world war to stop them.
For a more recent history of Islamic terrorism after 9/11:
Bali 2002, 202 dead
Russia 2002, 170 dead
Madrid 2004, 191 dead
Beslan, 2004, 320 dead
London 2005, 52 dead
Mumbai 2008, 166 dead
The French attack is tragic but it needs to be put into context.
http://graphics.wsj.com/terror-timeline-since-911/
Christians who want to close our borders and keep the Syrian refugees out are so right about this whole Syrian refugee thing - good thing Jesus, Mary and Joseph weren't middle eastern refugees..... oh, wait.
Jesus Mary and Joseph were not refugees. Where on earth do you get that from? This crap is constantly made up. They were on their way to Jerusalem to take part in a routine annual census and according to tradition there was no room at the local hotel so they spent the night in a manger. They had a home in the Galilee where they returned to immediately after taking part in the Jerusalem census.
Why do you assume your version is correct?
PART 2
And I just don't trust the administration. I personally have witnessed thousands of illegals receiving health insurance despite the governments assurance that this will never happen. Their word on immigration issues mean nothing
You hit the nail on the head. The word of Obama means absolutely nothing, perhaps less than nothing. There is no reason on earth to believe that these groups of refugees will screen out any possible terrorists amongst them prior to gaining entrance to the United States. In any event the American public is strongly against this at this time but that has never stopped Obama before.
You have no idea how the screening process works. There is everything in favor of believing that refugees when they assimilate will become an important resource in identifying possible terrorists. You yourself make that argument when you compare the melting pot with the multicultural model.
The majority of States are now refusing to allow Obama to dump Syrian refugees on them and endangering their citizens.
Scores of people in a position to know are publically stating that the Syrian refugees cannot be vetted.
Yesterday at his G-20 speech Obama was clearly irritated with the media’s repeated questions on this subject. The press kept asking because Obama kept not answering their questions directly. He looked and sounded like Hillary Clinton at Saturday night’s debate. Obama was hammered by the White House Press Corp. and annoyed with those who he used to count on to parrot his agenda. Obama’s embarrassing speech to the world yesterday didn’t make the front page of most American newspapers this morning.
Obama was impassioned about American taking in these refugees who are suffering from the war in their country. Where was Obama’s passion over the last few years while his lack of action and failed foreign policies caused the problem?
ISIS announced a long time ago that they are covertly inserting their fighters into the fleeing refugees.
Democrat Senator Dianne Feinstein was loudest of the Democrats yesterday on the need for Obama to clearly state a Syrian refugee relocation program before Congress and The American People. Sen. Feinstein is one of the few hawks in the Democratic Party but her words carry a lot of weight.
A Trojan horse is coming to American. The American People see it and want Obama to put their safety put first.
This is all nonsense and also cowardly. ISIS was created by George W and is an example of REPUBLICAN failed war policy. Every piece of evidence supports this.
It was the ISIS objective to make the rest of the world fear the refugees. They have succeeded.
The current Republican leadership has surrendered to ISIS. The governors who are almost all Republican have also surrendered to ISIS. They are all afraid! ISIS will be emboldened by this overt display of fear.
I won't even get into the argument of "who created ISIS" because its utterly irrelevant. Bush is not president now. Obama is. ISIS has thrived over the last seven years, is stron ger than ever and is now directly threatening the West. Obama has constantly downplayed the threat and we are not about to take his word now. ISIS couldn't care LESS whether we let in refugees or not. Their goal is to establish a world wide caliphate and ensure everyone follows their brand of Islam. Everything they do is intended to further that goal.
It is totally relevant to research the origins of ISIS and your inability to understand this is solid argument for your side of the fence not be involved in any military planning in the future. To understand the military capacity of ISIS one needs to know who the leaders are and what their training and war experience is. It is not good strategy to go into war blind. One needs knowledge of the enemy and the ability of the enemy.
ISIS does care how the refugees scare republicans. They engineered this and the right capitulated and they will be very proud of this victory. Why wouldn't they be celebrating this defeat?
quote:
quote:ISIS must really enjoy Obama's speeches when he repeatedly states what he will not do.
Yes, maybe we should ask Jihadi John what he thinks of Obama's weakness..... oh, wait.....
________________________________________________________________________
Maybe we should ask the thousands of dead, killed by Islamic Extremist Terrorists what they think of the weak, cowardly American President.
Who got a bead and pulled the trigger on Bin Laden? Not George W and his hunting buddy.
You act like a two year old if you have nothing to add to the discussion go back to watching roller derby.
Obama got a bead and pulled the trigger? Funny I thought it was special forces. Amazing as the world erupts in flames due to Obama's spinelessness and ideological blindness his fans will stick to this one thing. The man pulled the trigger on Bin LAden. As if they hadn't been hunting him for ten years and as if any president wouldn't have done that. Barak Obama, takes credit for anything positive, rejects blame for anything negative.
You make the opposite argument for ISIS, where the history you cite as important with Bin Laden is irrelevant with ISIS.
i don't need a lecture Mule. i understand what is going on. yes there are other small pockets.
i'm going to step out of these conversations in the WP for awhile. i'm starting to feel i'm getting chippy. I don't wanna get to that point.
good luck saving the world.
I've found staying out of the Whipping Post's chronic numbskullery helps one's sanity. All I will say is there was a young Russian-German Jewish WWII refugee who made it to the Bronx not speaking any English and knowing no one. He wouldn't be reunited with his sisters for years, but would go on to work in Brooklyn and Catskills supper clubs. Eventually he worked his way up and opened a couple of concert venues. That man's name is Bill Graham, who was instrumental in promoting The Allman Brothers Band. Had the US (against a good deal of public opposition) not opened their doors to Europe's refugees, you might all be having this argument on a Blood, Sweat & Tears forum.
It also has some of the most compassionate and some of the most unwilling to see common sense folks I have ever seen and most of them have grown up without being in the service or they are in generation X the missing link group....
WTF?
The courts will decide; like the previous threat about Obama's last immigration policy defeat
I wonder what the courts would have decided about the Jewish refugees in 1938? Were any of those folks people you know emr?
Was there a danger that hiding among Holacaust refugees were members of a deadly religious death cult that has promised to reek havoc among the Western world?
According to some people at the time, they were worse than that.
Negative feelings were strong and biased; but to my knowledge no one feared that Tevye would blow up their neighborhood
It was still a decision based on fear and ignorance, and in that respect it is very much analogous to what is happening now.
Just like the gun control and gay marriage issue, I couldn't care any less what the Constituition or the Bible says when it comes to the Syrian refugee issue. We must only analyze present day conditions when making decisions, and in light of what's going on with ISIS, we should be adapting. Past refugee stories are irrelevant because they do not address the threat ISIS poses. Address the threat and then let's talk.
Whe I admit Obama's decision on this is wrong, it is beyond foolish to blame him for what has happened. Just as no other administration would've reacted differently to the FBI 9/11 memo warning, no other administration would be doing anything differently post Iraq, so save the "blame Obama" POV. It's weak. If you are going to unfairly rip him for every move, then be consistent and give him credit for doing more to fight ISIS than any other world leader.
I don't agree with you. Virtually anyone else including Bush would recognize when a strategy is not working or a belief is completely wrong and alter course. Bush did it after 9/11 as you state and he did it after 2006 when he totally changed the startegy in Iraq and actually got it stabilized (it is irrelevant whether the original deicision was right or wrong because it had already happened). Obama has never altered any strategy or changed course in any way whether the public has urged him to or events have proven him wrong. I suspect that if Obama had been president after 9/11 little would have changed just because Obama does not change in reaction to events. And he gets very petulant towards anyone who has the temerity to criticize him.
Christians who want to close our borders and keep the Syrian refugees out are so right about this whole Syrian refugee thing - good thing Jesus, Mary and Joseph weren't middle eastern refugees..... oh, wait.
Jesus Mary and Joseph were not refugees. Where on earth do you get that from? This crap is constantly made up. They were on their way to Jerusalem to take part in a routine annual census and according to tradition there was no room at the local hotel so they spent the night in a manger. They had a home in the Galilee where they returned to immediately after taking part in the Jerusalem census.
I love a good fairy tale.
Thanks!
THAT'S a fairy tale but the made up crap that they were homelss refugees is not. Got it.
I won't even get into the argument of "who created ISIS" because its utterly irrelevant.
A complete disowning of twenty years of neoconservative foreign policy in one sentence. You gonna burn all your back issues of Commentary?
It's irrelevant to what needs to be done going forward to fight it. Obviously I believe Obama's disastrous policies had much to do with its growth to the threat it is today but that is not what we are discussing here. Obama's supporters, whenever he comes under criticism love to dredge up the past as if that absolves him of his lack of leadership from 2009-2015.
Muslims when they start turning in other radical Muslims will at that point become American Muslims because the people all the people are this country when they can point the finger and say that one is radical then we will have true immigrants interested in the welfare of the country they want to live in .
I think that's a great point Ryde. Until the mainstream Muslim community comes out en masse and condemns these kind of acts of violence and the perpetrators who carry them out they will all be regarded as extremists, whether that is right or wrong.
Most of you folks have good hearts and care about people
Right back at 'ya.
And you will be called a bigot by much of the left for pointing that out.
I won't even get into the argument of "who created ISIS" because its utterly irrelevant.
A complete disowning of twenty years of neoconservative foreign policy in one sentence. You gonna burn all your back issues of Commentary?
_____________________________________________________________________
It is the last 7 years of Obama's failed foreign policy that brought us to the point where ISIS is winning and growing.
Mule my friend, do you really believe they are winning? Do you really fear they are close to taking over the world or at least the Middle East? They control very little real territory. mostly along the rivers and major highways. small towns and a couple of small cities.
come on man
_______________________________________________________________________
“do you really believe they are winning?”
- Ask a Frenchman, a Middle Eastern Christian or anyone they have beheaded, raped or murdered.“Do you really fear they are close to taking over the world or at least the Middle East?”
- Not even close but that is not the issue either.“They control very little real territory. mostly along the rivers and major highways. small towns and a couple of small cities.”
- In 8 countries and growing fast.A few months back Boko Haram, the largest and most deadly Islamic Extremist Terrorist organization in Africa pledged allegiance to ISIS.
The world has a serious infection. There is only one way to stop an infection. Kill it.
For a relevant historical reference see Hitler/Nazis. They were allowed to grow unimpeded until it took a world war to stop them.
For a more recent history of Islamic terrorism after 9/11:
Bali 2002, 202 dead
Russia 2002, 170 dead
Madrid 2004, 191 dead
Beslan, 2004, 320 dead
London 2005, 52 dead
Mumbai 2008, 166 deadThe French attack is tragic but it needs to be put into context.
Yes along with the thousanbds of innocent men, women and children in the middle east itself these maniacs kill daily.
Christians who want to close our borders and keep the Syrian refugees out are so right about this whole Syrian refugee thing - good thing Jesus, Mary and Joseph weren't middle eastern refugees..... oh, wait.
Jesus Mary and Joseph were not refugees. Where on earth do you get that from? This crap is constantly made up. They were on their way to Jerusalem to take part in a routine annual census and according to tradition there was no room at the local hotel so they spent the night in a manger. They had a home in the Galilee where they returned to immediately after taking part in the Jerusalem census.
Why do you assume your version is correct?
I'm just basing it on the bible story which is the only version we have. I assume the leftists that use it to advance their point are attempting to do the same thing. Most likely none of that is true except for the fact that the people of Judea DID have to report to Jerusalem for census. What basis is there to say that Mary and Joseph were refugees?
quote:
quote:
quote:
Christians who want to close our borders and keep the Syrian refugees out are so right about this whole Syrian refugee thing - good thing Jesus, Mary and Joseph weren't middle eastern refugees..... oh, wait.Jesus Mary and Joseph were not refugees. Where on earth do you get that from? This crap is constantly made up. They were on their way to Jerusalem to take part in a routine annual census and according to tradition there was no room at the local hotel so they spent the night in a manger. They had a home in the Galilee where they returned to immediately after taking part in the Jerusalem census.
I love a good fairy tale.
Thanks!
THAT'S a fairy tale but the made up crap that they were homelss refugees is not. Got it.
How did the "homeless GI" thing start this past weekend? Did they all end up on sidewalks across America on Saturday morning??? There have been homelss GI"S since the war of independance and now they are the nations number one priority??? Only took what 240 years???
As a great post somewhere said if Homeless GI's are your number one priority what are you doing about it????
The majority of States are now refusing to allow Obama to dump Syrian refugees on them and endangering their citizens.
Scores of people in a position to know are publically stating that the Syrian refugees cannot be vetted.
Yesterday at his G-20 speech Obama was clearly irritated with the media’s repeated questions on this subject. The press kept asking because Obama kept not answering their questions directly. He looked and sounded like Hillary Clinton at Saturday night’s debate. Obama was hammered by the White House Press Corp. and annoyed with those who he used to count on to parrot his agenda. Obama’s embarrassing speech to the world yesterday didn’t make the front page of most American newspapers this morning.
Obama was impassioned about American taking in these refugees who are suffering from the war in their country. Where was Obama’s passion over the last few years while his lack of action and failed foreign policies caused the problem?
ISIS announced a long time ago that they are covertly inserting their fighters into the fleeing refugees.
Democrat Senator Dianne Feinstein was loudest of the Democrats yesterday on the need for Obama to clearly state a Syrian refugee relocation program before Congress and The American People. Sen. Feinstein is one of the few hawks in the Democratic Party but her words carry a lot of weight.
A Trojan horse is coming to American. The American People see it and want Obama to put their safety put first.
This is all nonsense and also cowardly. ISIS was created by George W and is an example of REPUBLICAN failed war policy. Every piece of evidence supports this.
It was the ISIS objective to make the rest of the world fear the refugees. They have succeeded.
The current Republican leadership has surrendered to ISIS. The governors who are almost all Republican have also surrendered to ISIS. They are all afraid! ISIS will be emboldened by this overt display of fear.
I won't even get into the argument of "who created ISIS" because its utterly irrelevant. Bush is not president now. Obama is. ISIS has thrived over the last seven years, is stron ger than ever and is now directly threatening the West. Obama has constantly downplayed the threat and we are not about to take his word now. ISIS couldn't care LESS whether we let in refugees or not. Their goal is to establish a world wide caliphate and ensure everyone follows their brand of Islam. Everything they do is intended to further that goal.
It is totally relevant to research the origins of ISIS and your inability to understand this is solid argument for your side of the fence not be involved in any military planning in the future. To understand the military capacity of ISIS one needs to know who the leaders are and what their training and war experience is. It is not good strategy to go into war blind. One needs knowledge of the enemy and the ability of the enemy.
ISIS does care how the refugees scare republicans. They engineered this and the right capitulated and they will be very proud of this victory. Why wouldn't they be celebrating this defeat?
What on earth are you talking about? It's Obama and the left that refuses to acknowledge the religious Islamic basis of ISIS's actions. ANd believe me it is not just Republicans that are concerned. The Democrats are going to ride this issue right into the ground and are going to be shocked at what happens. ISIS doesn't give a damn if we admit refugees or not. They have a broader strategy and a vision. Our plan is to "weaken degrade and ultimately destroy" Isis. There is absolutely no coherent strategy to make that happen. Killing Jihadi John? That's a tactical victory. Every day ISIS survives or enlarges is a day it grows stronger and attracts more recruits. Because THAT'S what attracts Muslims to it, the feeling that they are winning, have God on their side, the wind at their back, however you want to phrase it. The only coherent strategy to fight ISIS ideologically is to put a world of hurt on them. To actually reverse the process by taking back the territory they have gained. To let the Islamic world know that THIS is not how it's going to happen, that the West is not going to roll over. That is how you fight ISIS. Does anyone seriously believe this has either crossed Obama's mind or is in any way a part of his thought process?
The courts will decide; like the previous threat about Obama's last immigration policy defeat
I wonder what the courts would have decided about the Jewish refugees in 1938? Were any of those folks people you know emr?
Was there a danger that hiding among Holacaust refugees were members of a deadly religious death cult that has promised to reek havoc among the Western world?
According to some people at the time, they were worse than that.
Negative feelings were strong and biased; but to my knowledge no one feared that Tevye would blow up their neighborhood
It was still a decision based on fear and ignorance, and in that respect it is very much analogous to what is happening now.
Except we disagree with your conclusion. That was based on fear and ignorance. THIS is based on practicality and sense.
"Ain't no time to hate..."
[Edited on 11/19/2015 by BillyBlastoff]
Number of refugee's is ~ 4 million. You don't think when a US Govt agency goes through the refugee camps they won't get the pick of the litter or at least a chance to go through lists to pick who they want???
This situation is not like in the movie Scarface where the US govt "housed" folks under the highways in Miami.
Last I heard the US was going to receive 10,000 people. That's what 200 per state???? That equals one more person per 35,000 Americans.
I am thinking the number of wack jobs with permitted and non-permitted guns already living in your country will out number the new arrivals.
It boils down to this, there are people who have to leave their war town land and go someplace else. The surrounding countries are already full of refugees. The US has said it will take them in. Most the people are just people, there might be some who are wit Isis, and get thru. Unless you close the borders you cannot prevent that.
What you can do is provide cities and states of refuge for those seeking it. Some states have already agreed to take in the refugees, they include Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Utah, Colorado, California, Washington state, and Arizona.
Currently 70,000 refugees from around the world are allowed to come to the United States. The U.S. will accept 85,000 people in 2016 and 100,000 in 2017. People fleeing Syria will account for much of the increase, though not all.
One of the other problems is funding for the people we will accept. In most cases they will not speak English, it will be hard for them to get jobs. The issue then becomes supporting them in a humane way.
http://www.newschannel10.com/story/30541478/when-refugees-arrive-in-us-heres-what-they-can-expect
We are allowing 85,000 refugees to come here in 2016, and 100,000 in 2017. Not all of them wil be Syrians, but the issue of how we can afford it is a real one. Many in this country will be angry that refugees coming from Syria right off the bat get:
"Upon arrival in the United States, each refugee is eligible for a $1,975 arrival and placement grant that is managed by one of nine refugee resettlement agencies working with the federal government. At least $1,125 of that grant must be spent on housing, including a bed for each person, basic furniture such as a couch, kitchen items including dishes and silverware, and weather-appropriate clothing. The remainder is used to cover additional costs for the aid agency."
Plus health and other beneifits. US citizens that are homeless, have run out of unemployment benefits etc. will be very angry. I do not advocate treating refugees badly, but I DO advocate helping people who are citizens who have seemingly been left behind because of the lack of jobs and affordable housing.
[Edited on 11/19/2015 by gina]
Don't worry folks Obama said ISIS is contained
It must be true if Obama said it.
If he attacked ISIS as much as he does republicans we just might be ok
But then again republicans are bigots
And don't worry there is no threat
don't be concerned that 6 people from Afghanistan and Pakistan were caught entering Arizona
and 8 Syrians were caught at the Texas border
All in the last few days
ISIS is contained
But Don't ever mention the worlds Islamic terrorist
You must be a bigot if you say that
