Fact is you live in South Dakota and most of Idaho you are in voluntary exile. Self-quarantine is not an issue when you are peeing icicles alone in an empty landscape. These folks hollering around out in the middle of nowhere are full of sh!t.
I guarantee you if Covid comes to Bundy's compound there will be ZERO liberty. These types talk real big about freedom but you can bet they are tyrants of their little armed fortresses. Lockdown is a way of life for these bunkerists.
Biggest city in South Dakota, Sioux Falls, pop. 127,000 . The governor of South Dakota is managing the equivalent population of one small American city, spread out over thousands of square miles. Wonderful for them, fine they can do what they feel is needed and STFU - Their situation has no bearing on densely populated areas and no place in the dialogue.
Right on.
I spent about 6 months in in SD bringing up a health care claims processing operation for the state. It's beautiful out there & has some neat history. I'll bet there is a larger bison population than people. The good governor's perspectives are reflective of & proportional to the breadth of the state in which she governs.
On another note - welcome back, Brer. I trust your sabbatical was successful. Hopefully you have some new material to try out on those who "love" your calling out their positions the most.
Did someone state that everyone needed to respond in the same way that CA or NYC did (niether of which was the same response, by the way)?
Actually yes. The media has been banging this drum about states not conforming to "stay at home" orders for weeks now. The President and task force members repeatedly get peppered with the same questions about a national stay at home order and strict national guidance. Plenty of guests and talking heads saying the governors who are not acting are "irresponsible", "dangerous", "careless", "incompetent". Chuck Todd's show on MSNBC right now just had a guest say some of those exact words when referring to one such state (Missouri).
It's like the media wants Trump so badly to say "ok, everyone must issue stay at home order" only then they will rip apart the failures in forces all the states to conform to one standard.
Governors should act according to their demographic, their circumstances. Some will get it right, some might not get it right, some will get it right at some point in between. Some may have to take more drastic and proactive restrictions, others will be able to have more flexibility in their actions.
To your question, has anyone been saying South Dakota should be doing the same thing as California and New York? Specifically for South Dakota I have not heard that. But broadly for every state that doesn't have such an order, yes they have and they have been doing so quite often.
It's amazing the conversations I (thankfully) miss out on not having cable.
I get the sentiment, I've mentioned here in south Florida that different approaches on a smaller scale (neighboring towns) did not work. I have a brother in Spain, and they waited until Italy got bad before they prepared for impact, and now it's worse there. But those are more densely populated areas. Generally, most people are going to stay home. Like banning jarts, it's the few people who take it too far that cause suggested behaviors to become orders. So if people insist on gathering in Fargo for some reason, someone might have to insist they not, for the safety of everyone else around them.
How long can the economy take it? Well, the economy isn't going to thrive if millions die.
The economy will certainly tank if millions are out of work for than 3 months, small businesses will fail with industry suffering next. Certainly a conversation about the future of the economy is one that needs to be had and soon. How does the thought of a depression sound?
How do you think China's economy would do in the long term if they didn't take the drastic measures that they did?.
China's economy is the least of my concerns
In the best case scenario, twice as many Americans are going to die in the next couple months from COVID-19 than died in over 10 years of fighting in the Vietnam War. I think staying at home for a couple months is far less of a sacrifice than sending young men off to fight in the jungle.
We have zero proof that staying at home is going to do anything beyond "Flattening the curve" and then what?..Can you get it a second time? Will we develop an immunity? There is so much the "experts" do not know and amazing how much the media influences everyday life because the "experts" are not sure about anything, nor can they realistically project what even the near future holds. The "best case scenario" looks way more bleak for the economy than it does for the future of health on this Planet....
So China, which has at a minimum 3 TIMES the population of the US has not seen any spread of the virus to Beijing or Shanghai, two of the most populous cities in the world. This seems really strange to me in light of how easy the virus spreads.
Here are the 10 most populated cities in the world, as reported by Time.
Shanghai, China.
Mumbai, India. ...
São Paulo, Brazil. ...
Beijing, China. ...
Mexico City, Mexico. ...
Osaka, Japan. ...
Cairo, Egypt. ...
New York-Newark, United States. ...
I don't think there is any question that our hero Dumb Donald is guilty 10 times over for his initial delay in taking the virus seriously and even worse, convincing the public the threat was not serious!!! I would say this Lady could be headed a similar direction? I was at Krogers and the annoying Hoosier Hillbilly cashier girl, been there for years, loudly ranting and and raving how she is sick and tired of all this damn hoax etc? Unreal!! She didn't have a mask, 80% of the shoppers did, I had on 2.........stay hunkered......care about one another..........joe
Did someone state that everyone needed to respond in the same way that CA or NYC did (niether of which was the same response, by the way)?
Actually yes. The media has been banging this drum about states not conforming to "stay at home" orders for weeks now. The President and task force members repeatedly get peppered with the same questions about a national stay at home order and strict national guidance. Plenty of guests and talking heads saying the governors who are not acting are "irresponsible", "dangerous", "careless", "incompetent". Chuck Todd's show on MSNBC right now just had a guest say some of those exact words when referring to one such state (Missouri).
It's like the media wants Trump so badly to say "ok, everyone must issue stay at home order" only then they will rip apart the failures in forces all the states to conform to one standard.
Governors should act according to their demographic, their circumstances. Some will get it right, some might not get it right, some will get it right at some point in between. Some may have to take more drastic and proactive restrictions, others will be able to have more flexibility in their actions.
To your question, has anyone been saying South Dakota should be doing the same thing as California and New York? Specifically for South Dakota I have not heard that. But broadly for every state that doesn't have such an order, yes they have and they have been doing so quite often.
It's amazing the conversations I (thankfully) miss out on not having cable.
I get the sentiment, I've mentioned here in south Florida that different approaches on a smaller scale (neighboring towns) did not work. I have a brother in Spain, and they waited until Italy got bad before they prepared for impact, and now it's worse there. But those are more densely populated areas. Generally, most people are going to stay home. Like banning jarts, it's the few people who take it too far that cause suggested behaviors to become orders. So if people insist on gathering in Fargo for some reason, someone might have to insist they not, for the safety of everyone else around them.
True, if you don’t like it, you won’t find any benefit in it. Just because I have cable/satellite doesn’t mean I have to watch.
But I like hearing what people are saying and how they are positioning their positions.
So tonight, I normally watch CNN for their kinda dinner hour timeframe coverage. There’s been this talk around how maybe the networks shouldn’t carry these task force briefings because of the President’s misinformation, ramblings and attacks on the press. What do they do tonight? Carry all of the a Trump part, which is the most worthless part, then when Trump leaves the room handing off to Pence, Fauci and Birx CNN drops it. So they carry the sensational misleading part they supposedly don’t like and don’t carry the most informative part.
I don’t know why I like it but I do. I surround myself with it, trying to pick up on different views either by TV, radio, and papers.
BigV has his own reasons for starting the thread, the debate about how some states are holding out against a stay at home and shelter in place order is what came into my head based on frequent calls by the media for everyone to do the same thing (or along the same lines).
How long can the economy take it? Well, the economy isn't going to thrive if millions die.
The economy will certainly tank if millions are out of work for than 3 months, small businesses will fail with industry suffering next. Certainly a conversation about the future of the economy is one that needs to be had and soon. How does the thought of a depression sound?
How do you think China's economy would do in the long term if they didn't take the drastic measures that they did?.
China's economy is the least of my concerns
In the best case scenario, twice as many Americans are going to die in the next couple months from COVID-19 than died in over 10 years of fighting in the Vietnam War. I think staying at home for a couple months is far less of a sacrifice than sending young men off to fight in the jungle.
We have zero proof that staying at home is going to do anything beyond "Flattening the curve" and then what?..Can you get it a second time? Will we develop an immunity? There is so much the "experts" do not know and amazing how much the media influences everyday life because the "experts" are not sure about anything, nor can they realistically project what even the near future holds. The "best case scenario" looks way more bleak for the economy than it does for the future of health on this Planet....
Sounds like you want everything to reopen right away and whoever dies, dies. I personally don't think having the virus spread more quickly is going to be good for the economy, but we will just have to disagree on that. I'm glad you are in the minority. Even Trump, who has a major case of denial, seems to finally understand the importance of the shelter in place.
And the reason you should be concerned with what is happening in China is that they are a few months ahead of us. We should be paying attention to what works there and what doesn't work. Learn from other people's mistakes and successes. We have several models of what can happen for countries that experienced the outbreak earlier than us - China, South Korea, Italy. Hong Kong and Macau are both densely populated cities that got hit before us and neither had the widespread cases and deaths that NY has. In fact, Hong Kong had less than 950 cases and only 4 deaths (fewer deaths than South Dakota). You may not care about Hong Kong, but ignoring their success is nothing but celebrating ignorance.
And the reason you should be concerned with what is happening in China is that they are a few months ahead of us.
I agree we can learn from those who are ahead of us, but China did pretty much round people up. They were much more aggressive in their containment. Also they are only sharing the bare minimum of info.
We have zero proof that staying at home is going to do anything beyond "Flattening the curve" and then what?..Can you get it a second time? Will we develop an immunity? There is so much the "experts" do not know and amazing how much the media influences everyday life because the "experts" are not sure about anything, nor can they realistically project what even the near future holds.
A regular Joe criticizing doctors and health experts for not knowing enough....JFC. How about you turn off the TV and do whatever you please?
Are you being sarcastic? I ask only because RI got a grade of "C" for it's social distancing. Lots of people doing as they please, which to me, exacerbates and perpetuates the problem. On the other hand, what the hell good is a 14 day quarantine? If every single person did it, every person, then yeah, I could see a high level of effectiveness. Short of that, this thing marches on. This stay at home nonsense; for how long? 14 days? What good is that? 3 months? Through the predicted next wave in the fall? From what I've seen in RI this thing will never go away. Wear a mask, stay the F away from me (I've said that 50 times the last 3 weeks) wash your hands, all the stuff we're supposed to do BC "we're all in this together". (BTW, we're not in this together, its those of us who are considerate, courteous and aware v. an abundance of ignoramuses.
Ty for allowing me to vent. I despise the inconsiderate actions of some people.
I pay close attention when Fauci talks.
Can you imagine the conversation between him and his loved ones every night during dinner?
Trump must be driving him crazy.
Fauci comes from a world where uncertainty and the unknown are a large part of every plan to develop a drug or vaccine. You really dont know until you do the testing so you cant ever say for sure about the questions people want answers to now. These tests can take a year or more. Of course he is now thrust in the spotlight to answer these questions. Many of those asking the questions dont care about the answer, only whether it makes President Trump look bad.
"The president seems oblivious to the fact that his own clown car of an administration bungled the priceless lead time we had to get ready for the pandemic." --Maureen Dowd, NY Times
Fauci comes from a world where uncertainty and the unknown are a large part of every plan to develop a drug or vaccine. You really dont know until you do the testing so you cant ever say for sure about the questions people want answers to now. These tests can take a year or more. Of course he is now thrust in the spotlight to answer these questions. Many of those asking the questions dont care about the answer, only whether it makes President Trump look bad.
You don't think Trump looks bad on his own?
Fauci comes from a world where uncertainty and the unknown are a large part of every plan to develop a drug or vaccine. You really dont know until you do the testing so you cant ever say for sure about the questions people want answers to now. These tests can take a year or more. Of course he is now thrust in the spotlight to answer these questions. Many of those asking the questions dont care about the answer, only whether it makes President Trump look bad.
Fauci comes from a world of science and study that presents facts based upon findings. He is tasked to save lives and prevent death.
Trump comes from a world of conjecture, gut feelings, impulsive decison making, reactionary moves, and whatever in any given day he can squeeze out to make himself look good. Facts be damned in his world. Lies and blaming others are much more important for his self preservation.
So goob - I'll take my medical advice from Dr. Fauci, but you go ahead and take your medical advice from Dr. Trump.
Speaking of Coronavirus in South Dakota:
I pay close attention when Fauci talks..
Dr. SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD on Mr Fauci
I pay close attention when Fauci talks..
Dr. SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD on Mr Fauci
That guy is a partisan hack who spreads more conspiracy theories than Gina. He even lied claiming to have invented email. The fact that he immediately went off into Trump loving, Obama hating politics really tells you all you need to know. Meanwhile, Fauci has worked for presidents from both parties and certainly is far from a partisan hack.
I pay close attention when Fauci talks..
Dr. SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD on Mr Fauci
That guy is a partisan hack who spreads more conspiracy theories than Gina. He even lied claiming to have invented email. The fact that he immediately went off into Trump loving, Obama hating politics really tells you all you need to know. Meanwhile, Fauci has worked for presidents from both parties and certainly is far from a partisan hack.
It's always easy to find exceptions and outliers to support any point of view and inject the usual desire for argument. From what I've read & seen, the consensus is that the medical community and the American public has confidence in Dr. Fauci and at percentages way beyond the guy who would challenge him at the podium.
Speaking of Coronavirus in South Dakota:
This has happened in many states, some with strict stay at home orders like Colorado, Virginia, Pennsylvania.
The governors keep certain businesses open because they are essential and then the virus spreads there.
It will be interesting to see how she responds now that the virus is in her backyard.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/coronavirus-cases-skyrocket-in-south-dakota/
The Republican governor continues to resist a shutdown even as calls for such policies mount. The South Dakota State Medical Association penned a letter to Noem on April 3 urging her to institute a mandatory quarantine.
“A stay-at-home order would give our health professionals the necessary time and resources to manage this pandemic,” the group wrote on its website. “We may soon be facing the challenges and hardships being seen in New York and other cities if a shelter in place order is not issued immediately.”
Yes, it will be watched very close as there are some vested interests in this nationally.
I do not view the outbreak at the meat packing facility as the issue here, because there have been similar issues around the country in various states. The potential problem is what were those infected allowed to do after they left work and were infected and didn't know it yet, potentially spreading it in a way that they might not have spread it in other states.
South Dakota Department of Health has some releases on recent positive cases. For instance they tell of an employee at O'Reilly Auto Parts testing positive. Could that person have gotten it from a Smithfield employee? They also list Tienda America, a food market. Well, auto parts stores and food markets in my state are open and Ohio has been praised nationally for actions Governor Dewine has taken. But there was a case from a diner 120 miles from Sioux Falls, just a small little dot on the map Lane SD. Restaurants were open in South Dakota, many recently have announced closures or take out only. Up to that point people from the Smithfield plant could've gone to a restaurant or diner and spread the disease unknowingly. Was this their acceptable risk, what will the fall out be?
I pay close attention when Fauci talks..
Dr. SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD on Mr Fauci
That guy is a partisan hack who spreads more conspiracy theories than Gina. He even lied claiming to have invented email.
A "Partisan Hack" who just happens to be a graduate of M.I.T. (PHD) and there seems to be a legitimate argument that he did indeed have a lot to do with E-Mail becoming what it is.
Seems a "Partisan Hack" is anyone who veers off the course the mainstream media has paved...
I pay close attention when Fauci talks..
Dr. SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD on Mr Fauci
That guy is a partisan hack who spreads more conspiracy theories than Gina. He even lied claiming to have invented email.
A "Partisan Hack" who just happens to be a graduate of M.I.T. (PHD) and there seems to be a legitimate argument that he did indeed have a lot to do with E-Mail becoming what it is.
Seems a "Partisan Hack" is anyone who veers off the course the mainstream media has paved...
I decided to watch the video. I had to stop when he said Fauci "is your typical example of the worst of the modern scientific establishment".
Look, Dr Ayyadurai knows way more about medical science than I ever will and so does Dr Fauci. I can certainly appreciate that there are differing opinions regarding viruses and immune response and pharmaceutical remedies, or otherwise.
But Dr Fauci is part of a team who is advising our government on what to do. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. It is the same thing with Amy Acton in Ohio. She is under assault and criticism too. Until one of those critics actually replace her, there is no point in paying much attention to what they say. It is easy to sit on the sidelines and backseat drive this thing. The people in charge of these decisions carry the weight.
Maybe he's right, [maybe he's wrong.
This is the main issue in a nutshell. What gives "this expert" more credibility than that one? All of the experts are well educated and articulate. Is it about whom they represent?....That goes to agenda.
All of the experts agree that we've found vaccines for polio.....Let's use that as a standard
I pay close attention when Fauci talks..
Dr. SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD on Mr Fauci
Might as well quote Dr. oz & "Dr." phil.
And McCoy, House, Spock, Doogie Houser, etc.
[Edited on 4/18/2020 by PhotoRon286]
I pay close attention when Fauci talks..
Dr. SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD on Mr Fauci
Might as well quote Dr. oz & "Dr." phil.
And McCoy, House, Spock, Doogie Houser, etc.
[Edited on 4/18/2020 by PhotoRon286]
Did they graduate from M.I.T. with a PHD?
Getting degrees and even advanced degrees is not difficult. The right mindset and work will get you there. Someone can be academically gifted and able to obtain a degree, a masters degree, or even a doctorate. And that can be obtained at "prestigious" universities. That doesn't mean that the individual is good in his or her discipline. Doesn't mean their theories or body of work are correct. Doesn't mean that they provide accurate and value added to society. It only means they were able to obtain degrees.
Maybe he's right, [maybe he's wrong.
This is the main issue in a nutshell. What gives "this expert" more credibility than that one? All of the experts are well educated and articulate. Is it about whom they represent?....That goes to agenda.
All of the experts agree that we've found vaccines for polio.....Let's use that as a standard
People are going to look at things differently. Fauci has spent decades advising several Presidents in our government. That alone doesn't make him any better than Ayyadurai, but until Ayyadurai reaches that point of authority, his words mean much less to me. In a crisis, I tend to listen to the people responsible for managing the crisis. Can they be wrong? Sure. May they error in ways they otherwise shouldn't have? Possibly. But somebody has to be in charge, officially. Everyone has an opinion, opinions are like assh0les right? The opinions of the people in an official capacity to lead us through this matters more, to me.
Getting degrees and even advanced degrees is not difficult. The right mindset and work will get you there. Someone can be academically gifted and able to obtain a degree, a masters degree, or even a doctorate. And that can be obtained at "prestigious" universities. That doesn't mean that the individual is good in his or her discipline. Doesn't mean their theories or body of work are correct. Doesn't mean that they provide accurate and value added to society. It only means they were able to obtain degrees.
And does this "theory" of yours apply to all individuals with advanced degrees?...Or just the ones with "bodies of work" that fit your viewpoints and beliefs?
Please
but until Ayyadurai reaches that point of authority, his words mean much less to me.
Fair enough and a good example of agree/belief
