OMG, I'm agreeing with Bob. 😮
I prime example of why I use the signature that I use. 😮
Another inmate, Alexandra Pyle who was at the jail across from Sandra, speaks. She was in a cell with other inmates and she did not hear anything the morning of Sandra's death that would indicate foul play. She said Sandra was distraught that her friend had not come to bail her out (it would have cost $500 to bail her out). Sandra's sister, Sharon Cooper acknowledged knowing about Sandra's miscarriage a year before when the alleged suicide attempt at that time happened.
http://abc7chicago.com/news/sandra-bland-distraught-neighboring-inmate-says/874337/
Pyle, who was in a nearby cell, said Bland was upset that her friend hadn't come to bail her out. The two spoke through a tiny chute, she said.
"Because she was crying, and I could barely understand her, I was like, 'It will be OK. It's OK. Don't cry. You can't be in here forever," Pyle said. "She was like, 'I'm not equipped for this kind of life. I don't need to be here, I don't deserve to be here, I didn't do anything it's all messed up.'"
Pyle said Bland was "sort of distraught" and upset that her friend didn't bail her out. Pyle says she wishes they had placed Bland in the cell with her and two other women. "I don't think she should have been in the other tank alone by herself," Pyle said. "We're over here, we're trying to keep each other laughing all the time, and she's over there hearing that. That would make anybody sad."
Cooper acknowledged Bland's miscarriage. "She was down about it, yes. But I have to tell you, that was a year ago. And she made her peace with it and got past it," Cooper said.
REMARKS: Sandra is one of five children born to her Mom, who raised them as a single parent. A person's ability to cope is determined by the time they are five years old, by that time their personality is formed. She just may not have had the skills to deal with what happened.
AUTOPSY and CUSTODIAL DEATH REPORT links in article below.
http://www.texastribune.org/2015/07/24/officials-release-sandra-bland-autopsy-report/
REMARKS: What bothers me is how in the space of three days someone who was enthusiastic can go from that to suicide. I know many would feel that the autopsy is too deep for the public. It is only the public that can do something to make sure what happened to her does not happen again.
They did the standard rape collection kit specimens, but the kit was NOT sent off for analysis. Why not? They say no one requested that it be sent off. WHY NOT? There is more I could say but it would be questions and conjecture.
If she was abused in the jail. someone has to pay for that, or it can to someone else. If she was murdered in jail, someone has to pay for that, or they may do it again. The truth MUST come out, however ugly it may be.
[Edited on 7/24/2015 by gina]
I think she provoked him and he just responded as the situation escalated.
It is his job to control and diffuse the situation, not to respond as it escalates. That is a recipe for disaster.
It is not illegal to question a police officer, especially for a routine traffic stop (though it's always in your best interest to comply). The video showed the officer clearly instigated and escalated the situation unnecessarily.
Here is a state trooper with the patience of a saint:
He told her she was under arrest for "resisting arrest" but he never charged her with anything prior to her "resisting".
There are a lot of great cops out there and it's a tough job that I don't want, but the best cops understand that the vast amount of the time they aren't going to be meant with open arms. There is a time and a place for force, this traffic stop was not one of them, and I find it unnerving how happy the officer was at the end when he triumphantly says "it's all on tape". She had an attitude, and you never know what can be the cause of someone having a bad day (uh, a traffic stop maybe) but he is clearly the aggressor and instigator.
He pulled her over for a traffic stop and she was immediately belligerent and non-compliant. The next step in such a situation is to ask the person to get out of the car. Often a search at that point will reveal something else. WHat was the officer's alternative? To say Oh well you got me and let her go on her way? None of this justifies her death or anything else that may have happened but it seems to me she escalated the situation and the officer may well have acted properly though he should have kept his personal anger in check.
I could not imagine the stress involved in being a police office theses days. You never know who is armed, what their mindset is, or what they are going to do next. A split second hesitation could cost you your life, but a split second too soon and someone might die who shouldn't. Every body has a camera. We should expect the highest level of professionalism from law enforcement, but man, I wouldn't want that job. And if you do come in contact with law enforcement, be respectful and do as they say. You can always file a complaint later if you have been wronged in some way.
There are a lot of great cops out there and it's a tough job that I don't want, but the best cops understand that the vast amount of the time they aren't going to be meant with open arms. There is a time and a place for force, this traffic stop was not one of them, and I find it unnerving how happy the officer was at the end when he triumphantly says "it's all on tape". She had an attitude, and you never know what can be the cause of someone having a bad day (uh, a traffic stop maybe) but he is clearly the aggressor and instigator.
Great posts that get to the heart of the matter. The cop should have diffused, not provoked. But even when the cop is a bad actor the smart thing to do is be respectful and comply. Then file a complaint afterwards.
This whole episode was so unnecessary. Sandra Bland had an attitude, but really she was acting no worse than my first wife did on a daily basis. The cop should have never pulled her over, but once he did he should have issued the warning or ticket and just said "Have a nice day". No one would have ever heard of Hempsted Texas and Sandra Bland would be starting her new job. As it is the police are complicit in her death whether it was suicide or not.
Did he not ask her for her license and registration and she refused? Perhaps my knowledge of the facts are wrong.
I could not imagine the stress involved in being a police office theses days. You never know who is armed, what their mindset is, or what they are going to do next. A split second hesitation could cost you your life, but a split second too soon and someone might die who shouldn't. Every body has a camera. We should expect the highest level of professionalism from law enforcement, but man, I wouldn't want that job. And if you do come in contact with law enforcement, be respectful and do as they say. You can always file a complaint later if you have been wronged in some way.
There are a lot of great cops out there and it's a tough job that I don't want, but the best cops understand that the vast amount of the time they aren't going to be meant with open arms. There is a time and a place for force, this traffic stop was not one of them, and I find it unnerving how happy the officer was at the end when he triumphantly says "it's all on tape". She had an attitude, and you never know what can be the cause of someone having a bad day (uh, a traffic stop maybe) but he is clearly the aggressor and instigator.
Great posts that get to the heart of the matter. The cop should have diffused, not provoked. But even when the cop is a bad actor the smart thing to do is be respectful and comply. Then file a complaint afterwards.
This whole episode was so unnecessary. Sandra Bland had an attitude, but really she was acting no worse than my first wife did on a daily basis. The cop should have never pulled her over, but once he did he should have issued the warning or ticket and just said "Have a nice day". No one would have ever heard of Hempsted Texas and Sandra Bland would be starting her new job. As it is the police are complicit in her death whether it was suicide or not.
Did he not ask her for her license and registration and she refused? Perhaps my knowledge of the facts are wrong.
Yes you have the facts wrong. You never let that stop you though so why start now?
Did he not ask her for her license and registration and she refused? Perhaps my knowledge of the facts are wrong.
He asked her to put out her cigarette and she refused. This was as he was about to end the traffic stop by issuing her a warning. He decided the cigarette issue was an opportunity to flex his muscles.
He pulled her over for a traffic stop and she was immediately belligerent and non-compliant. The next step in such a situation is to ask the person to get out of the car. Often a search at that point will reveal something else.
Initially she seemed as compliant as many average people would be at a traffic stop - irritated but cooperative. The only thing she was "non-compliant" about was putting out a cigarette, which is an unreasonable request (and only a request, not a legal order). She asked why would she have to put out her cigarette and he instructed her to get out of the car. That is the moment he escalated the situation. It is still legal to be irritated and ask the reason of a police officer's request. He never stated why she was under arrest (until the charge was "resisting arrest"), which I believe you still have to do. A search can indeed reveal something else, if there is cause for a search if the vehicle is somehow suspicious (uh, "profiling"), but that hardly seems the case here. Just a normal woman driving down the road whose day was ruined by a traffic stop. Once the officer escalated, yes, the smart thing to do would have been to realize this guy had an axe to grind and be as peaceful as possible. The public shouldn't have to have cooler heads than those with a badge.
[Edited on 7/29/2015 by porkchopbob]
Here is a state trooper with the patience of a saint:
Google "Malden traffic stop" or "traffic stop, Malden Mass." and you will see the extreme opposite -- an absolute criminal, Vested With Police Authority -- many people if they had guns, would've shot this guy in self defense, out of fear for their own lives, and how could they be blamed
[Edited on 8/3/2015 by Stephen]
The family of Sandra Bland is filing a lawsuit for wrongful death, but they want to make it a race case. She was not given the treatment or rights she would have received as a white person. That is where the case is going. The October 10th march on Washington will be all about race and the rights of blacks, etc. It is not about incompetence or lack of proper training in the police dept. Whether there is validity to that I cannot speculate. I still feel it is a pivotal moment in the civil rights movement.
Remarks:
First she was pulled over for not signaling. No racial reason existed there.
It seems they are accepting the official determination that her death was a suicide, and feel that the jail did not do enough to prevent that from happening. There were cells for people who are believed to be at risk, she was not placed in one of those, that is the jail's mistake, since her arrest was not without struggle and emotionality.
Did he not ask her for her license and registration and she refused? Perhaps my knowledge of the facts are wrong.
He asked her to put out her cigarette and she refused. This was as he was about to end the traffic stop by issuing her a warning. He decided the cigarette issue was an opportunity to flex his muscles.
Fair enough. She still should have complied. She could have filed a complaint later.
She did not recognize his authority and kept asking him to explain, justify himself. That is why he got angry. Rudolph Guiliani said when he was a kid, if he got into trouble, when he would tell his Father, but they are wrong, his father would say, "they are right, you are wrong, we'll work it out later". He was taught that you have to comply, Ms. Bland did not have that perspective.
She was well versed in her rights, but you cannot argue with a policeman. They operate under the guidelines of the rules they were trained in.
Did he not ask her for her license and registration and she refused? Perhaps my knowledge of the facts are wrong.
He asked her to put out her cigarette and she refused. This was as he was about to end the traffic stop by issuing her a warning. He decided the cigarette issue was an opportunity to flex his muscles.
Fair enough. She still should have complied. She could have filed a complaint later.
Yes, that's what most of us would have done. But she didn't and she was arrested and held in jail for 3 days. My guess is that if I refused to put out my cigarette I would not have been jailed.
Did he not ask her for her license and registration and she refused? Perhaps my knowledge of the facts are wrong.
He asked her to put out her cigarette and she refused. This was as he was about to end the traffic stop by issuing her a warning. He decided the cigarette issue was an opportunity to flex his muscles.
Fair enough. She still should have complied. She could have filed a complaint later.
Yes, that's what most of us would have done. But she didn't and she was arrested and held in jail for 3 days. My guess is that if I refused to put out my cigarette I would not have been jailed.
That's conjecture. I don't think she was arrested for failing to put out a cigarette and if she were she could probably have sued for wrongful arrest. I think the situation escalated from there. She made a very bad choice. I feel very sorry for what happened.
Did he not ask her for her license and registration and she refused? Perhaps my knowledge of the facts are wrong.
He asked her to put out her cigarette and she refused. This was as he was about to end the traffic stop by issuing her a warning. He decided the cigarette issue was an opportunity to flex his muscles.
Fair enough. She still should have complied. She could have filed a complaint later.
Yes, that's what most of us would have done. But she didn't and she was arrested and held in jail for 3 days. My guess is that if I refused to put out my cigarette I would not have been jailed.
That's conjecture. I don't think she was arrested for failing to put out a cigarette and if she were she could probably have sued for wrongful arrest. I think the situation escalated from there. She made a very bad choice. I feel very sorry for what happened.
Yes it is conjecture. As I said it is "my guess". You are right she made a bad choice. So did the arresting officer. So did the magistrate (or whoever set bail and confined her to jail). So did those at the jail who were responsible for her while she was in custody. Lots of bad choices made here. Again, my guess is that some of those choices would have been different if it were me who didn't extinguish the cigarette. But we'll never know.
I'm sure this question will be deemed irrelevant but, would/should it have been ok to treat Cliven Bundy and those at the ranch more harshly because they were not compliant?
edit
i guess my point really is........
reading this forum and other blogs, lots of people express belligerence to the gov't all of the time. also to each other. cops are on the front lines and probably experience this all of the time. they have bad days too. police and during traffic stops are the easiest way for americans to express their displeasure. its a dangerous job that they preform. they have to make life or death decisions even over a simple traffic stop.
how can we change the culture of this country to respect authority yet still retain the right to disagree?
does that make sense?
[Edited on 8/5/2015 by LeglizHemp]
are people pulling our chains, pushing our buttons to cause this?
lol i know that is a dumb question.
reading this forum and other blogs, lots of people express belligerence to the gov't all of the time. also to each other. cops are on the front lines and probably experience this all of the time. they have bad days too. police and during traffic stops are the easiest way for americans to express their displeasure. its a dangerous job that they preform. they have to make life or death decisions even over a simple traffic stop.
how can we change the culture of this country to respect authority yet still retain the right to disagree?
does that make sense?
Makes total sense, and that's why there is (or at least should be) a recourse for when a cop does have a bad day, just as other governing bodies have a system of checks and balances that can inquire into their improprieties. In this case, Officer Encinia was suspended by the Texas Department of Public Safety for "violations of the department's procedures regarding traffic stops and the department's courtesy policy."
I'm sure this question will be deemed irrelevant but, would/should it have been ok to treat Cliven Bundy and those at the ranch more harshly because they were not compliant?
edit
i guess my point really is........
reading this forum and other blogs, lots of people express belligerence to the gov't all of the time. also to each other. cops are on the front lines and probably experience this all of the time. they have bad days too. police and during traffic stops are the easiest way for americans to express their displeasure. its a dangerous job that they preform. they have to make life or death decisions even over a simple traffic stop.
how can we change the culture of this country to respect authority yet still retain the right to disagree?
does that make sense?
[Edited on 8/5/2015 by LeglizHemp]
We can do it by respecting legal authority when we come face to face with it while reserving our righs to free expression.
sounds like a very simple solution then. this should be fixed in no time.
We can do it by respecting legal authority when we come face to face with it while reserving our righs to free expression.
It's pretty evident that those rights do not exist in most cases when one is face-to-face with legal authority.
We can do it by respecting legal authority when we come face to face with it while reserving our righs to free expression.
It's pretty evident that those rights do not exist in most cases when one is face-to-face with legal authority.
...at least for for certain people when faced with certain legal authorities.
Not to resucitate an old thread -- and I don't envy the job police have to do, it's often a no-win situation -- but, like the Sandra Bland case and the Malden Mass. traffic stop, this is way out of line -- reprehensible -- this elderly man was doing nothing wrong
__________________________________________________
Indian man injured by police testifies against officer
HUNTSVILLE, Ala. — An Indian man left partially paralyzed when he was slammed to the ground during a police stop in Alabama testified Wednesday that he'd been in the state only about a week when he was confronted by officers investigating a call about a suspicious person.
Sureshbhai Patel, 58, was pushed in a wheelchair to the witness stand in U.S. District Court in Huntsville, where he testified through an interpreter against Officer Eric Parker during the opening day of testimony. Parker is accused of violating Patel's civil rights during the police stop Feb. 6 in Madison, a suburban city of about 46,500 just west of Huntsville.
Patel recounted how he was staying with his son on a visit from India and had been out for a morning walk in the neighborhood when police approached. He said he doesn't speak English and couldn't understand the orders police gave him.
Cameras in patrol cars recorded the scene as Parker swept one of his legs in front of Patel, slamming him to the ground.
"My two hands, my two legs they all became cold and numb," Patel said, testifying through interpreter.
Patel later recalled that he couldn't stand after officers tried lifting him up. Patel's family has said he still has trouble walking and that the family faces hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills.
Madison police officer Charles Spence testified Wednesday morning that Parker had Patel's hands behind his back when he arrived and that he didn't think Patel needed to be detained because he didn't appear to pose a threat or resist officers. Spence said Patel was knocked down, then handcuffed and the cuffs were taken off when it became clear that he was hurt.
Video, which was slowed down and enlarged for jurors, was shown in court while Spence was on the witness stand.
In the video, Patel can be seen turning his head toward Parker just before he was knocked down. Before and after the takedown, officers are heard several times trying unsuccessfully to communicate with Patel, who had repeatedly said "No English."
Parker and his attorney, Robert Tuten, have said Patel repeatedly tried jerking away from officers and reached for his pockets.
Patel denied those claims through his interpreter and said he stopped when officers ordered him to because he heard them shout — not because he understood what they were saying. Patel also said officers "checked his pants" before he was slammed down.
Police were called after a neighbor reported a thin black man walking around looking at houses. Spence said he initially passed Patel and kept looking for a black man who fit the description.
Prosecutors dismissed the defense's argument that the use of force was justified. They noted that officers were seeking a person based on a vague description and that Patel wasn't engaged in any criminal activity.
"We could imagine some ghastly scenarios, right?" prosecutor Robert Posey asked after Tuten mentioned hypothetical situations a suspicious person could have been involved in. "But that doesn't mean you get to treat everybody like a home invasion killer," Posey said.
Police are trained to be suspicious and must always expect the worst, Tuten said during opening statements. He called Patel's injuries unfortunate and characterized the encounter as an escalation of police tactics, not a criminal offense.
"They say excessive force, Officer Parker says reasonable under the circumstances," Tuten said, later adding. "It's unfortunate that Mr. Patel doesn't speak English. It's also unfortunate that Mr. Parker doesn't speak Hindi."
Patel, a farmer from Gujarat, India, speaks Gujarati. His son, Chirag Patel, said he spent the last nine years working to bring his parents to the United States.
Chirag Patel said he hadn't thought of telling his father to carry identification during his usual morning walks strolling down the block and back.
The elder man, who is now undergoing physical rehabilitation, has since been joined by his wife and now lives in Alabama with his son.
Parker is being fired by the city of Madison but has appealed and the termination process is on hold until criminal charges are resolved.
Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley called Patel's treatment a case of "excessive force" in an apologetic letter to the Indian government.
Parker also faces a state assault charge. Patel filed a federal lawsuit seeking an unspecified amount of money for his injuries.
