What if it's not racism, but is a power thing, the old I'm a cop, you ain't squat, you got no rights. Just because she is black doesn't mean it is a racially motivated thing.
It could be cultural, a northern woman is different from southern women. Different parts of the country have different expectations on how a woman is supposed to be and behave.
Back in the days in some yahew town upstate while we were travelling for a concert, (and got a little lost) we stopped for gas and the guy there took our pictures because we were pumping gas, a woman doing that was big news. He wanted to put us in the Agway news.
The point is there are cultural differences and expectations for the roles of women in different parts of the country and world.
In this case it could be because she was a smart, sassy black woman who knew her rights, and they weren't going to tolerate a black woman telling them anything. She looks like a friend of mine, which bothers me also.
FULL VIDEO with entire conversation between Sandy and the cop. The first car he stops the red car he just gave a warning to. Sandra is in the next car he stops.
I now know why he got very angry, she called him a pu**y and an ahole more than once. But everything that happened does not justify her dieing in the jail. The knee in the back injuries noted in the autopsy could be from the female officer who had her knee in her back while she was on the ground. Though it is interesting that he is saying he was trying calm her down and told her to calm down, but that is not what he said to her, he thinks he said that.
Video of Sandra on the ground Shazzam’s video
[Edited on 7/24/2015 by gina]
What if it's not racism, but is a power thing, the old I'm a cop, you ain't squat, you got no rights. Just because she is black doesn't mean it is a racially motivated thing.
It could be cultural, a northern woman is different from southern women. Different parts of the country have different expectations on how a woman is supposed to be and behave.
Back in the days in some yahew town upstate while we were travelling for a concert, (and got a little lost) we stopped for gas and the guy there took our pictures because we were pumping gas, a woman doing that was big news. He wanted to put us in the Agway news.
The point is there are cultural differences and expectations for the roles of women in different parts of the country and world.
In this case it could be because she was a smart, sassy black woman who knew her rights, and they weren't going to tolerate a black woman telling them anything. She looks like a friend of mine, which bothers me also.
________________________________________________________
She didn't know her rights. If a cop asks you to step out and you refuse, he can forcibly remove you. Every lawful order refused authorizes the police to use additional force. Admittedly, I started out down on the cop, but the more that's revealed is starting to make me reconsider. It was reported that during this incident Bland refused to comply with 49 lawful orders. Forty nine!
That's not a very good way to stay out of jail.
He has to have a reason why he is demanding you to get out of the car, not just because he wants to.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/20/us/sandra-bland-arrest-death-videos-maps.html?_r=0
But most people know not to insult and degrade a police officer, that doesn't usually end well. She did not show him the automatic respect (of deference) most people show to police officers. There was clearly a communication problem. If he would have answered her questions and had some dialogue with her it might not have gotten out of hand. But most police need to assert that they are in charge and it is pretty much one way, they give orders, you comply, they ask and you answer. She was changing the balance of power and he was not comfortable with that.
If it was on the TV show COPS, it might have went down different.
[Edited on 7/24/2015 by gina]
Wow, I've had my rights violated and didn't even know it. I still think the best bet
is just to cooperate, though. And say as little as possible.
Wow, I've had my rights violated and didn't even know it. I still think the best bet
is just to cooperate, though. And say as little as possible.
Agreed. Though up here the Highway Patrol are different. Everyone goes to court hoping that the cop will be busy and not show up. In my case, he had a courtroom full of his conquests and called me his Valentine, when I approached the bench since he nailed me on Valentine's Day. I don't speed here anymore, it's not worth it.
[Edited on 7/24/2015 by gina]
From Texas, the AME Church personnel at the jail.
October 10, march to Washington called for by Louis Farrakhan.
It is important to remember, the cop did not kill her, she died in the jail. But this is a flashpoint in the civil rights movement.
These are two videos that she made prior to her arrest. In one she says she wants to unite white and black people, but she believed black people were treated differently because of their race. She wasn't a black Mother Teresa, but she wanted better for herself and the world, that's what makes her death so tragic. Even though she was mouthin' off at the cop sounding ghetto, underneath that was a desire just to be treated like anyone else.
Sandy speaks
[Edited on 7/24/2015 by gina]
Waller County Releases Jail Video
It looks like she was kept in a dark room in the back of the jail. Room 95. What went on there during those three days is unknown.
[Edited on 7/24/2015 by gina]
Authorities point to evidence of suicide in Texas jail death
http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/authorities-point-to-evidence-of-suicide-in-texas-jail-death/
But we love a good conspiracy.
Nothing to see here. Move along. Comply or die.
What exactly can be done, since complying with whatever the police officer says is now out ?
What else could be done? Well we could expect police officers to act like professionals and deescalate situations not inflame them. And I have a brother who is ( was , now retired ) a highly decorated police officer and I consider myself pro police in general.
What exactly can be done, since complying with whatever the police officer says is now out ?
I'd say it's way in. Comply or die. Do whatever a cop says no matter what. Either avoid them all together, or, if you do come in contact, be completely and totally subservient or the worst may happen. Looks like that's becoming quite clear.
I could not imagine the stress involved in being a police office theses days. You never know who is armed, what their mindset is, or what they are going to do next. A split second hesitation could cost you your life, but a split second too soon and someone might die who shouldn't. Every body has a camera. We should expect the highest level of professionalism from law enforcement, but man, I wouldn't want that job. And if you do come in contact with law enforcement, be respectful and do as they say. You can always file a complaint later if you have been wronged in some way.
Nothing to see here. Move along. Comply or die.
Easy to say -- that does not apply to caucasians tho -- put yourself in the shoes of a person of color, and see how well you'd like living under the continuous degrading threat of "comply or die"
peace
He told her she was under arrest for "resisting arrest" but he never charged her with anything prior to her "resisting".
There are a lot of great cops out there and it's a tough job that I don't want, but the best cops understand that the vast amount of the time they aren't going to be meant with open arms. There is a time and a place for force, this traffic stop was not one of them, and I find it unnerving how happy the officer was at the end when he triumphantly says "it's all on tape". She had an attitude, and you never know what can be the cause of someone having a bad day (uh, a traffic stop maybe) but he is clearly the aggressor and instigator.
Nothing to see here. Move along. Comply or die.
Easy to say -- that does not apply to caucasians tho -- put yourself in the shoes of a person of color, and see how well you'd like living under the continuous degrading threat of "comply or die"
peace
Please note the intended sarcasm of the original statement...I agree with you. 😉
He told her she was under arrest for "resisting arrest" but he never charged her with anything prior to her "resisting".
There are a lot of great cops out there and it's a tough job that I don't want, but the best cops understand that the vast amount of the time they aren't going to be meant with open arms. There is a time and a place for force, this traffic stop was not one of them, and I find it unnerving how happy the officer was at the end when he triumphantly says "it's all on tape". She had an attitude, and you never know what can be the cause of someone having a bad day (uh, a traffic stop maybe) but he is clearly the aggressor and instigator.
He is not the instigator, watch the FULL tape the 52 minute one that shows the entire conversation, at least until after she is cuffed and in the car.
Well it's better that it is on tape. The entire traffic stop tape shows the whole conversation and how it escalated. He began asking questions and she wanted him to explain his orders and his actions. He was not going to do that. He maintained his cop stance of issuing orders because that is how he was trained. She felt persecuted from the start, that's clear. He got angrier and angrier but maintained his composure till the point of telling her he would light her up if she did not obey him (comply is the same as obey). He did not say anything degrading to her, but she launched a tirade on him attacking his ablity to do his job, his manhood.
Most cops during a traffic stop do not ask you to get out of the car, they take your info, go back to their car and check to see if there are any warrants on you. If not, they give you a warning or a ticket and you continue off on your way.
Even after she was out of her car, he told her to stand on the grass, then he tells her "come here" and she still challenges his authority, "well you told me to stand here". (like telling him he does not know what he is doing or cannot do his job right).
Why do they need to put someone on the ground to handcuff them? When there were two cops?
[Edited on 7/24/2015 by gina]
I could not imagine the stress involved in being a police office theses days. You never know who is armed, what their mindset is, or what they are going to do next. A split second hesitation could cost you your life, but a split second too soon and someone might die who shouldn't. Every body has a camera. We should expect the highest level of professionalism from law enforcement, but man, I wouldn't want that job. And if you do come in contact with law enforcement, be respectful and do as they say. You can always file a complaint later if you have been wronged in some way.
People know that they can do and say whatever they want to, but the police have limits as to how they can respond to you. That march in NYC (last December) had people chanting, "what do we want? " Response: "Dead Cops", "When do we want them?" "Now. The police on duty that night had to stand there and listen to that. Officers Liu and Ramos shot dead in their squad car. This is how bold people have become. Some could say oh well that was just one person who did that. But in the Pink Houses where another accidentally shot discharged his gun and someone else died, that officer's picture was posted on a wanted poster, meaning if he showed up again, somebody was going to kill him. This is the mindset of people. They don't care, they have no respect for any police officer. They'll shoot them just as soon as look at them.
I could not imagine the stress involved in being a police office theses days. You never know who is armed, what their mindset is, or what they are going to do next. A split second hesitation could cost you your life, but a split second too soon and someone might die who shouldn't. Every body has a camera. We should expect the highest level of professionalism from law enforcement, but man, I wouldn't want that job. And if you do come in contact with law enforcement, be respectful and do as they say. You can always file a complaint later if you have been wronged in some way.
There are a lot of great cops out there and it's a tough job that I don't want, but the best cops understand that the vast amount of the time they aren't going to be meant with open arms. There is a time and a place for force, this traffic stop was not one of them, and I find it unnerving how happy the officer was at the end when he triumphantly says "it's all on tape". She had an attitude, and you never know what can be the cause of someone having a bad day (uh, a traffic stop maybe) but he is clearly the aggressor and instigator.
Great posts that get to the heart of the matter. The cop should have diffused, not provoked. But even when the cop is a bad actor the smart thing to do is be respectful and comply. Then file a complaint afterwards.
This whole episode was so unnecessary. Sandra Bland had an attitude, but really she was acting no worse than my first wife did on a daily basis. The cop should have never pulled her over, but once he did he should have issued the warning or ticket and just said "Have a nice day". No one would have ever heard of Hempsted Texas and Sandra Bland would be starting her new job. As it is the police are complicit in her death whether it was suicide or not.
Bob, are you saying Officer Encinia is complicit in her death because she was unnecessarily arrested?
Bob, are you saying Officer Encinia is complicit in her death because she was unnecessarily arrested?
Not only Officer Encinia but everyone in the department who had a hand in her arrest and detention. It was totally unnecessary. She died in police custody when should not have ever been in police custody.
That video fom the AME church members said that when she was stopped, she was on her way to the job interview at the college. The arrest even if she had not died while in custody probably took away her chance for getting the job. She might have taken her own life due to the gravity of the consequences of that; plus she would have a criminal record charged with assaulting a police officer. Job applications say that they will consider each case individually, but if you have to put down it happened recently, your chances of getting a job are zero.
I think she provoked him and he just responded as the situation escalated. What bothers me also is how calm he was (in the full length video) after she was subdued and in the car and others came to the scene and he recounted what went on.
[Edited on 7/24/2015 by gina]
I think she provoked him and he just responded as the situation escalated.
It is his job to control and diffuse the situation, not to respond as it escalates. That is a recipe for disaster.
Everyone needs to separate two things:
-she got arrested and thrown in jail, plenty of room for debate whether that was right or not.
-she killed herself. While tragic, the arresting officer that F'd up on camera DID NOT kill her.
Everyone needs to separate two things:
-she got arrested and thrown in jail, plenty of room for debate whether that was right or not.
-she killed herself. While tragic, the arresting officer that F'd up on camera DID NOT kill her.
I agree with your separation of the two events. I have not lost sight of that. And I agree that she most likely killed herself.
The arresting officer did not kill her, but he was complicit. He, along with others in the department, were key in creating the situation that led to her death. Not directly responsible for her death but culpable nonetheless.
Everyone needs to separate two things:
-she got arrested and thrown in jail, plenty of room for debate whether that was right or not.
-she killed herself. While tragic, the arresting officer that F'd up on camera DID NOT kill her.
You are CORRECT, the arresting officer did not kill her, was NOT at the jail potentially harassing her causing her to get to the point emotionally where she could break down and take her own life. People DO need to remember that. Many will argue that what went on with the initial arrest led to the downward spiral in her emotional state.
The Officer who arrested her has not been on the force long and his career in law enforcement may be over due to this incident and the black community not letting it just be wept under the rug. [NOR AM I SAYING IT SHOULD BE SWEPT UNDER THE RUG]
http://newsone.com/3157451/brian-encinia-texas-trooper-who-arrested-sandra-bland/
Encinia ventured into police work after a career in agriculture. He attended Texas A&M University and graduated in 2008 with his bachelor’s in agricultural leadership and development. After working as an ingredient processing supervisor at Blue Bell Creameries for six years (2008-2014) he worked as a chief in the Brenham Fire Department from 2009 to 2013.
He began working for the Department of Public Safety in Waller County as a state trooper and has held the position for a little over a year.
REMARKS:
After seeing the entire video and Sandra verbally demeaning him throughout the arrest I have mixed feelings in this case. Learning to diffuse situations comes with experience he had only been on the job for slightly more than a year. Many will question his qualifications and training. I think after she refused to put her cigarette out, he should have told her he was giving her a ticket, and just moved to the back of her car, wrote the ticket, given it to her. If she questioned what it was for he would say for failing to signal when changing lanes. You can go now. That would have been it. Instead he responded to her provoking him. That was his mistake. that is why it escalated.
But playing Monday morning quarterback is easy. He did what he felt he could at the time with the situation. That traffic stop should be used for future training purposes of other officers.
I don't think he is complicit in her death because his part of it ended when she was arrested. Kicking an officer in the shin is not something he could just let be. He had to write her up for that because it was a deliberate act.
[Edited on 7/24/2015 by gina]
Everyone needs to separate two things:
-she got arrested and thrown in jail, plenty of room for debate whether that was right or not.
-she killed herself. While tragic, the arresting officer that F'd up on camera DID NOT kill her.
It's impossible to completely separate the two from a cause/effect point of view. If she were not in jail, she would have not allegedly committed suicide in jail.
The only way they cold be completely separated would be if she was not in jail at the time she died, but that is impossible to know.
OMG, I'm agreeing with Bob. 😮
What's worse is that the black community will use this tragedy for racial reasons. The officer did not know she was black when she was pulled over. NO profiling there. He pulled over because she did not signal when changing lanes. The march to Washington DC on October 10 will demand some sort of national action on the case, when it is not a race case, unless the officer hates black people and treated her more roughly than he would have a white person who did the same things that she did. I don't think that is the case, I think he would have treated a white person the same way if they responded to him as she did.
She lost her composure and got caught up in the oh my God this cannot be happening emotionality of the moment which led to her feeling she had to fight back because she felt persecuted and harassed.
Communication issues and compliance issues on both parts. She asked questions, he would not answer them effectively. He wasn't used to an uppity Northerner. He's lucky it wasn't someone from Occupy Wall Street!
[Edited on 7/24/2015 by gina]
