It's kinda hard to believe that this situation is still going on. Brady could have ended the whole thing when it first came up earlier this year and just copped to the whole thing and it would have been done .Ego and arrogance. Professional athletes,entertainers,politicians, all live in a different world and reality. They think they have different standards and are above. This is not the first and won't be the last.
He will probably come back against the Colts and they will probably thrash them(hopefully not though) and possibly win their division.
NE and their fans outght to be more worried about their defensive backfield then losing TB for 4 games or whatver is going on with this sopa oprea. I know a few quarterbacks who could REALLY know how to take advantage of that.
I am just ready fro the season to start!!!!!
[Edited on 8/10/2015 by jszfunk]
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
It's kinda hard to believe that this situation is still going on. Brady could have ended the whole thing when it first came up earlier this year and just copped to the whole thing and it would have been done .Ego and arrogance. Professional athletes,entertainers,politicians, all live in a different world and reality. They think they have different standards and are above. This is not the first and won't be the last.
He will probably come back against the Colts and they will probably thrash them(hopefully not though) and possibly win their division.
NE and their fans outght to be more worried about their defensive backfield then losing TB for 4 games or whatver is going on with this sopa oprea. I know a few quarterbacks who could REALLY know how to take advantage of that.
I am just ready fro the season to start!!!!!
[Edited on 8/10/2015 by jszfunk]
Why would he cop to something he didn't do? As of now, there is more actual evidence that the Colts and Ravens conspired with the NFL to create a sting operation and that they are the ones in too deep to be able to come clean, than there is that points to Tom Brady doing something, anything wrong. Perhaps I should be asking you why the Colts haven't copped to it, but I won't.
And speaking of the Colts, the Pats have outscored them 189-73 in four meetings since Andrew Luck took over as the Colts’ quarterback. At least their coach knows it has nothing to do with the psi of the footballs...
“No excuses. We got our asses kicked. Period. End of story. None of us here will ever forget that day, that final score. We got a damn artery gushing and no sutures to stop the bleeding. You never forget that.” - Colts coach Chuck Pagano
[Edited on 8/11/2015 by gondicar]
Jerry Thorton of WEEI has been one of the staunchest defenders of Brady and the Pats throughout the deflategate saga. He has often been mocked and called a "homer" and "fanboy" as have many others, including myself on these very pages. However, there are eight important points on which he has been proven right:
1. I said the Ravens and Colts colluded with each other to conduct a sting operation. They did.
This one got routinely shot down as crazy, tinfoil hat level paranoia. Ravens coach John Harbaugh vehemently denied there was any truth to it with the same conviction the Ravens have said Ray Rice didn’t punch his girlfriend and Ray Lewis didn’t obstruct justice in a double homicide investigation. Indy’s coach Chuck Pagano insisted likewise.
But now we have the email in which Colts equipment guy Sean Sullivan admits that Ravens assistant Jerry Rosburg called Pagano to tip him off about the Pats footballs being squishy.
2. I said Ted Wells’ investigation was never “independent.” It wasn’t.
While live-reading the Wells Report on air within an hour of it being released, I was struck by how slanted this thing was. A conviction based on a general awareness that was more probable than not. The glowing praise of Walt Anderson’s unquestionable memory followed by claiming he misremembered the key point about which pressure gauge he used. The fact that Jim McNally said “Deflator” once in a text in May of 2014 and Wells repeated it 15 times in his report. And all the phony findings by a notoriously corrupt junk-science-for-hire firm screamed “witch hunt.” Roger Goodell had given Wells a writing assignment with the thesis “Tom Brady is guilty” and paid him $5 million to prove it.
Well, we now know it was never “independent.” Not only did Wells invoke attorney-client privilege in his testimony, we know that Roger Goodell’s No. 2 man Jeff Pash wrote part of the damned thing. And now in the NFL’s own brief it is arguing that it doesn’t matter, that Wells’ lack of independence is not an issue. It was when Goodell claimed he was independent time and time again. But now that it’s proven to be a lie, just keep moving, citizens. There’s nothing to see here.
3. I called what the league was doing to the Patriots “a conspiracy.” It is.
On the Friday before I left for vacation the Patriots, bless them, released emails from February between team staffers and Jeff Pash begging, imploring the league to correct the false reports that were leading evening newscasts across the country. Reports they knew to be false. In short, Pash refused them any and all help.
The most damning one is from Patriots attorney Robyn Glaser to Pash: “Jeff, you need to step up. I can’t tell you the number of times you have told me that you and your office work for us member clubs. It has been made resoundingly clear to us that your words are just a front.” Glaser said this while the Pats’ public image was being decimated beyond any hope of repair. Pash’s reply was to call Glaser’s email “personal and accusatory” and then he more or less told the team to piss up a rope.
4. I accused the NFL of being involved in a cover up and hiding the truth. It has.
On July 28, Judy Battista of NFL.com began a column by saying that Brady’s side wanted the transcript of the appeal hearing kept sealed. That story was circulated and it made Brady look like he had everything to hide.
And yet Page 344 of that very document shows his lawyer Jeffrey Kessler requesting the transcript be released and NFL’s lawyer responding, “Pending the agreement, the transcript is confidential.” Now we know why. As a Supreme Court justice once said “Sunlight is the best disinfectant.”
5. I said the NFL didn’t have the first clue about how to handle footballs and ridiculously lax standards, which never bothered anyone until the AFC title game. That is now confirmed by its own officials.
In the league’s own report about how footballs will be handled going forward, Central Region supervisor of officials Gary Slaughter said:
“These are man-made products. They have a bladder and a valve. We have all checked them for many years. Sometimes when you check the ball out of the locker room right out of the box, there could be a problem. They could have a slow leak and you wouldn’t even know it at the time.”
6. I defended Tom Brady’s integrity. His own emails do it for me.
I was reluctant to read any of the 1,043 pages of Brady’s private emails because it’s worse than just celebrity gossiping; it’s un-American. It’s the worst sort of invasion of his privacy and something we should all be horrified by. But to use Brady-haters’ own words against them, he has nothing to hide.
There is nothing in there that doesn’t make him out to be a better human being than even the most motivated, starry-eyed fanboy thought he was. The exchange where he agrees to talk to the Vancouver Canucks players about his workout regimen and then sheepishly asks the owner if he’ll donate to help families in need being the shining example. But the bottom line is that in that entire document dump, there’s not one negative, un-PC, off-color, sexist, dirty or even off-color comment. Who among us can say the same thing.
All anyone could find is one mild, backhanded swipe at Peyton Manning’s longevity, and of course that’s the one the jackals in the press ran with. And in a world where Brady’s emails to Bridget Moynahan are posted on Yahoo!, explain to me again why he was wrong not to hand his phone records over to Ted Wells.
7. I’ve insisted that even if the footballs were deflated on purpose, the punishment is grossly unjust. The appeal confirms it.
Troy Vincent, acting as the Kermit to Goodell’s Jim Henson, handed down Brady’s suspension. And yet in his own testimony he admits that the rule about specs for inflating footballs isn’t even in the rule book given to players. It only appears in the game operations manual, which is for teams and their staffs only. And that in Vincent’s playing days, he never saw such a manual. Punishing Brady for that is like holding him accountable for knowing what’s in a set of IKEA instructions.
And as Pete Rose investigator John Dowd pointed out on CNN.com, no player has ever been suspended for “failure to cooperate” with a league investigation.
8. I’ve said from the jump that Roger Goodell is a weakling who can’t be trusted. NFL owners are starting to agree.
Goodell continues to prove to be a feckless, incompetent buffoon carrying out this over-the-top, unjustified McCarthyite slander on the Patriots not out of an effort to get to the truth or protect any shields, but in order to make up for the fact that he has repeatedly bungled real scandals so many times in the past. And in doing so, like old Tailgunner Joe, he’s committed far more egregious sins than anything his accused might have done, destroying his own career in the process.
Now according to Jim Donaldson of the ProJo, some of Goodell’s employers — NFL owners — are “uncomfortable” with his colossal bungling of Framegate and are pushing for him to end this mess he’s created and move on. Granted, they should have done so back in January when it was obvious what was going on here. And the fact that they let him and his minions run roughshod over the Patriots empowers them to do the same thing to the other 31 teams. But I won’t quibble. As John McClane said when the cops finally showed up to Nakatomi Plaza, “Welcome to the party, pal.”
So what the last week and a half has confirmed is that as much as I took the Patriots/Brady side in all this, for all my over-the-top conspiracy theories and rampant, debilitating paranoia on the subject, the truth has been far crazier than anything I actually came up with. And that’s being proven with every fact that’s come out recently.
This was always about “getting” the Patriots and Brady, that much is clear. As Roosevelt himself once put it: “I know the American people. They have a way of erecting a triumphal arch. And after the Conquering Hero as passed beneath it he may expect to receive a shower of bricks at his back at any moment.” Well I’m back, and I have their backs. Exonerate Brady.
A local Boston sports personality believes that Bradywas railroaded. That's good enough for me. Yeah, right. 😛
A local Boston sports personality believes that Brady was railroaded. That's good enough for me. Yeah, right. 😛
Attacking the source rather than the content. Really? Such a muleman-like tactic, usually reserved for those who can't form a cogent argument, and I know you are better than that.
In any case, let me explain what has been happening over the last week or so, on the off chance you've been living under a rock and missed it. The Brady defenders are being proven right by the judge who has blown the lid of the NFL's air of secrecy and their lies by releasing the appeal hearing transcripts, and by the general ineptness of Goodell and the other NFL executives involved that becomes more and more apparent with every additional document and email that gets released. And the Brady defenders are not just pats fans and Boston media any more. Others are joining the defense in droves. They are people like John Dowd, who ran the investigation that eventually led to Pete Rose's lifetime ban from baseball, as well as national reporters like Skip Bayless, Sally Jenkins, Dan Wetzel, Doug Gottleib, Dan Steinberg, Jon Gruden, and Stephen A. Smith. Even former and current players who played/play against Brady, like Tiki Barber and Antonio Cromartie for example, are now pro-Brady.
Here are a couple of blog columns by John Dowd who I mentioned above which you might find interesting...
The Tide Is Turning On Roger Goodell
http://www.deflategatefacts.com/blog/2015/8/7/the-tide-is-turning-on-roger-goodell
NFL's "INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION" TURNS OUT TO BE A SET-UP
http://www.deflategatefacts.com/blog/2015/8/10/nfls-independent-investigation-turns-out-to-be-a-set-up
[Edited on 8/11/2015 by gondicar]
"For six months, Commissioner Goodell and the NFL assured Tom Brady and the general public that Theodore Wells' investigation into Deflategate was unimpeachably independent.
Now, the truth is out. Transcripts revealed that not only did Wells consider the NFL to be his client, but that NFL General Counsel Jeff Pash edited the report before it was made public.
Unsurprisingly, Roger Goodell and the NFL are now saying that Wells' 'independence' is irrelevant, despite the fact that it was insisted upon again and again and again in order to lend credibility to their investigation of Tom Brady.
Turns out, the entire "investigation" was a set-up."
[Edited on 8/11/2015 by gondicar]
I'm wondering how much of the information you've posted, among other things, is admissible in court and/or if the judge takes it into consideration. I hope Brady's counsel presents certain matters to the judge that have come to light recently. Seven months of this...
Me, I'm going to wait on the final say...
You guys can claim that Brady has been railroaded all you want to, but the judge must feel there is merit to the NFL report or why would he tell the parties to negotiate a settlement.
NEW YORK -- A judge is urging last-minute settlement talks between the NFL, the players' union and Tom Brady before a Wednesday hearing in the legal dispute over the superstar quarterback's suspension for using underinflated footballs.
Judge Richard Berman on Tuesday ordered the sides to have "further good-faith settlement efforts" prior to the first meeting since the sides took the scandal known as Deflategate to federal court.
Berman directed NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and Brady to join lawyers in his robing room to discuss negotiations prior to a public hearing.
Brady was not at practice Tuesday. His absence was not related to an injury, a source told ESPN.com's Mike Reiss.
The league has asked Berman to find that it acted legally when it suspended Brady for four games after finding underinflated footballs when the Patriots topped the Colts 45-7 in the AFC championship game in January. The union has countersued to block the suspension.
Tom Brady is set to appear with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell at a hearing Wednesday in the legal dispute over his four-game suspension. AP Photo/Mark Lennihan
Berman has been described as a "famous settlement judge" by Chief Judge Loretta A. Preska, who told The Associated Press last week that Berman is "always calm himself, never ruffled."
During his appeal hearing, Brady denied under oath to Goodell that he tampered with footballs before the AFC title game, and investigator Ted Wells testified that he never warned the quarterback he would be punished if he didn't turn over his cellphone.
In a 457-page transcript released last week, Brady maintained his innocence in the scandal. He denied discussing air-pressure levels with the ball boys or even thinking about how inflated the footballs were when he selected them. He also said he never asked anyone from the Patriots to tamper with footballs.
The transcript filed by the NFL Players Association in Manhattan federal court included the appeal testimony from Brady and Wells on June 23. Wells explained that he did not believe Brady had nothing to do with the ball deflation because Brady refused to provide all of the documents that were requested.
Wells' investigation found text messages between Brady and a pair of equipment managers -- one of whom referred to himself as "the Deflator" -- discussing the preparation of footballs for the Jan. 18 game against Indianapolis.
Although Wells asked repeatedly for Brady's cellphone, the investigator also testified: "I did not tell Mr. Brady at any time that he would be subject to punishment for not giving -- not turning over the documents. I did not say anything like that."
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
You guys can claim that Brady has been railroaded all you want to, but the judge must feel there is merit to the NFL report or why would he tell the parties to negotiate a settlement.
That's pretty standard procedure, especially for this judge who from what I have read about him is known for pushing both sides for settlements. I really wouldn't read too much into it.
You guys can claim that Brady has been railroaded all you want to, but the judge must feel there is merit to the NFL report or why would he tell the parties to negotiate a settlement.
That's pretty standard procedure, especially for this judge who from what I have read about him is known for pushing both sides for settlements. I really wouldn't read too much into it.
Maybe, maybe not. But as Brady refuses to give an inch, this judge might not be happy with the lack of settlement.
You guys can claim that Brady has been railroaded all you want to, but the judge must feel there is merit to the NFL report or why would he tell the parties to negotiate a settlement.
That's pretty standard procedure, especially for this judge who from what I have read about him is known for pushing both sides for settlements. I really wouldn't read too much into it.
Maybe, maybe not. But as Brady refuses to give an inch, this judge might not be happy with the lack of settlement.
Reports are that neither side is giving an inch so not sure why you think he'd lay more blame for that on Brady than the NFL. In any case, I don't expect a settlement and so we'll see where it goes from there.
[Edited on 8/11/2015 by gondicar]
It's kinda hard to believe that this situation is still going on. Brady could have ended the whole thing when it first came up earlier this year and just copped to the whole thing and it would have been done .Ego and arrogance. Professional athletes,entertainers,politicians, all live in a different world and reality. They think they have different standards and are above. This is not the first and won't be the last.
He will probably come back against the Colts and they will probably thrash them(hopefully not though) and possibly win their division.
NE and their fans outght to be more worried about their defensive backfield then losing TB for 4 games or whatver is going on with this sopa oprea. I know a few quarterbacks who could REALLY know how to take advantage of that.
I am just ready fro the season to start!!!!!
[Edited on 8/10/2015 by jszfunk]
Why would he cop to something he didn't do? As of now, there is more actual evidence that the Colts and Ravens conspired with the NFL to create a sting operation and that they are the ones in too deep to be able to come clean, than there is that points to Tom Brady doing something, anything wrong. Perhaps I should be asking you why the Colts haven't copped to it, but I won't.
And speaking of the Colts, the Pats have outscored them 189-73 in four meetings since Andrew Luck took over as the Colts’ quarterback. At least their coach knows it has nothing to do with the psi of the footballs...
“No excuses. We got our asses kicked. Period. End of story. None of us here will ever forget that day, that final score. We got a damn artery gushing and no sutures to stop the bleeding. You never forget that.” - Colts coach Chuck Pagano
[Edited on 8/11/2015 by gondicar]
Never said Brady did , just his balboys..the deflator. I dont think anybody would be messing with the PSI unless it comes down from the "man ". The Colts and Ravens did nothing wrong..just pointed out that something was up. Cant fault either one of them for that. So where is the conspiracy if someone/team is doing something against the rules and caught? Just pointing out the obvious/wrong doing. Sorry if the NE area is butt hurt cause they got busted, rules are rules. They(Colts and Ravens) did not tamper with the balls. Most of the sane people here in Indy never cried anything about getting beat casue of the balls not being within the PSI range. Of cousre you may have a small percentage of delusionals, but the NE area fanbase would know nothing about that.
The Colts would have gotten beat no matter what. I never cried foul for them getting thrashed due to this issue. They are not in the same league,I know better than that, so dont even go there. I like to try and be objective being a fan and not look through rose colred glasses.
So if you buy all of the delfator defense, smashes his cell phone evey few months w, and etc... I got some beach front property I wold love to sell you ,real cheap.
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
Latest twist, and Goodell looks ridiculous yet again...
Roger Goodell finally addressed ESPN’s false report that 11 of 12 New England Patriots footballs tested at halftime of the AFC Championship Game were two PSI under the required limit. The NFL commissioner’s explanation was quite unsatisfactory. The Boston Globe’s Ben Volin tweeted out the entire exchange, which occurred at the NFL quarterly meeting in Chicago:
It's kinda hard to believe that this situation is still going on. Brady could have ended the whole thing when it first came up earlier this year and just copped to the whole thing and it would have been done .Ego and arrogance. Professional athletes,entertainers,politicians, all live in a different world and reality. They think they have different standards and are above. This is not the first and won't be the last.
He will probably come back against the Colts and they will probably thrash them(hopefully not though) and possibly win their division.
NE and their fans outght to be more worried about their defensive backfield then losing TB for 4 games or whatver is going on with this sopa oprea. I know a few quarterbacks who could REALLY know how to take advantage of that.
I am just ready fro the season to start!!!!!
[Edited on 8/10/2015 by jszfunk]
Why would he cop to something he didn't do? As of now, there is more actual evidence that the Colts and Ravens conspired with the NFL to create a sting operation and that they are the ones in too deep to be able to come clean, than there is that points to Tom Brady doing something, anything wrong. Perhaps I should be asking you why the Colts haven't copped to it, but I won't.
And speaking of the Colts, the Pats have outscored them 189-73 in four meetings since Andrew Luck took over as the Colts’ quarterback. At least their coach knows it has nothing to do with the psi of the footballs...
“No excuses. We got our asses kicked. Period. End of story. None of us here will ever forget that day, that final score. We got a damn artery gushing and no sutures to stop the bleeding. You never forget that.” - Colts coach Chuck Pagano
[Edited on 8/11/2015 by gondicar]
Never said Brady did , just his balboys..the deflator. I dont think anybody would be messing with the PSI unless it comes down from the "man ". The Colts and Ravens did nothing wrong..just pointed out that something was up. Cant fault either one of them for that. So where is the conspiracy if someone/team is doing something against the rules and caught? Just pointing out the obvious/wrong doing. Sorry if the NE area is butt hurt cause they got busted, rules are rules. They(Colts and Ravens) did not tamper with the balls. Most of the sane people here in Indy never cried anything about getting beat casue of the balls not being within the PSI range. Of cousre you may have a small percentage of delusionals, but the NE area fanbase would know nothing about that.
The Colts would have gotten beat no matter what. I never cried foul for them getting thrashed due to this issue. They are not in the same league,I know better than that, so dont even go there. I like to try and be objective being a fan and not look through rose colred glasses.
So if you buy all of the delfator defense, smashes his cell phone evey few months w, and etc... I got some beach front property I wold love to sell you ,real cheap.
Ha ha, you can't even get the old "beach front property" saying right! Beach front property isn't cheap. Beach front property in say, Tennessee, would be cheap. Get it? 😛 
Hey, you want to put your faith in Wells and Goodell and their cronies on this, that's up to you. Doesn't seem very smart though.
[Edited on 8/12/2015 by gondicar]
It's kinda hard to believe that this situation is still going on. Brady could have ended the whole thing when it first came up earlier this year and just copped to the whole thing and it would have been done .Ego and arrogance. Professional athletes,entertainers,politicians, all live in a different world and reality. They think they have different standards and are above. This is not the first and won't be the last.
He will probably come back against the Colts and they will probably thrash them(hopefully not though) and possibly win their division.
NE and their fans outght to be more worried about their defensive backfield then losing TB for 4 games or whatver is going on with this sopa oprea. I know a few quarterbacks who could REALLY know how to take advantage of that.
I am just ready fro the season to start!!!!!
[Edited on 8/10/2015 by jszfunk]
Why would he cop to something he didn't do? As of now, there is more actual evidence that the Colts and Ravens conspired with the NFL to create a sting operation and that they are the ones in too deep to be able to come clean, than there is that points to Tom Brady doing something, anything wrong. Perhaps I should be asking you why the Colts haven't copped to it, but I won't.
And speaking of the Colts, the Pats have outscored them 189-73 in four meetings since Andrew Luck took over as the Colts’ quarterback. At least their coach knows it has nothing to do with the psi of the footballs...
“No excuses. We got our asses kicked. Period. End of story. None of us here will ever forget that day, that final score. We got a damn artery gushing and no sutures to stop the bleeding. You never forget that.” - Colts coach Chuck Pagano
[Edited on 8/11/2015 by gondicar]
Never said Brady did , just his balboys..the deflator. I dont think anybody would be messing with the PSI unless it comes down from the "man ". The Colts and Ravens did nothing wrong..just pointed out that something was up. Cant fault either one of them for that. So where is the conspiracy if someone/team is doing something against the rules and caught? Just pointing out the obvious/wrong doing. Sorry if the NE area is butt hurt cause they got busted, rules are rules. They(Colts and Ravens) did not tamper with the balls. Most of the sane people here in Indy never cried anything about getting beat casue of the balls not being within the PSI range. Of cousre you may have a small percentage of delusionals, but the NE area fanbase would know nothing about that.
The Colts would have gotten beat no matter what. I never cried foul for them getting thrashed due to this issue. They are not in the same league,I know better than that, so dont even go there. I like to try and be objective being a fan and not look through rose colred glasses.
So if you buy all of the delfator defense, smashes his cell phone evey few months w, and etc... I got some beach front property I wold love to sell you ,real cheap.
Ha ha, you can't even get the old "beach front property" saying right! Beach front property isn't cheap. Beach front property in say, Tennessee, would be cheap. Get it? 😛
Hey, you want to put your faith in Wells and Goodell and their cronies on this, that's up to you. Doesn't seem very smart though.
[Edited on 8/12/2015 by gondicar]
Typo on my part....thanks for pointing that out.
I never put my faith in those guys and do not need to...Brady and his bumbling buddies have already pretty much proven what went down. When the heat comes down fingers start being pointed to help deflect blame and personal responsiblility.
Jkeller had a couple of good post that sum alot of this up:
Actually, no, there are hard facts and then conclusions drawn from them. First, the footballs were deflated. Nobody questions that. The two locker room guys took them into the mens room. That is fact. they had already been checked by the officials and should not have been returned to anyone in the Patriots organization. The texts between to two guys shows them to be guilty. Now comes the question of who would want softer footballs. Obviously someone who handles the ball. The only people who handle the ball on every play are the center and the qb. I doubt that the center cares about this.
The next part of this that implicates Brady is that the league requested his phone records and he refused to supply them. This is not a court of law, this is an internal private investigation. Brady had no legal standing to refuse to cooperate. The league took this refusal, along with the implications in the texts, decided that the deflation was requested/ordered by Brady and that he is subject to discipline.
Brady could have avoided this by coming clean. The penalty would not have been as severe, he might not have been suspended at all. But, as Ryan Braun, A-Rod and others in baseball have found, the cover up brings stiffer penalties than would otherwise be warranted.
I don't know who exactly did what. But there is no doubt that balls were tampered with, it was most likely done in that mens room by the two guys who wound up under the bus, and there would be no reason to do it unless someone who handled the balls (sorry for that double entendre) wanted them altered. Nobody from the Patriots has stepped forward, everyone was pleading ignorance. The league has no reason to come down on one of their most successful franchises. so, if you take a more objective look, the Patriots were most likely hiding something and Brady, in particular, was the most uncooperative. The Patriots made this a big deal, not the NFL. The NFL tried negotiating a lesser penalty, but Brady's people and the NFLPA refused to budge. You can point out all of the things you want to about possible discrepancies and circumstantial evidence, but, as I have said before, this is not a court of law. The NFL found a rules violation. The Patriots admitted to nothing. Did the Patriots or their fans really think that this would just go away?
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
Many of the "facts" you cite are either wrong or an assumption. Therefore, the conclusions you reach are flawed. Doesn't matter if I go through them point by point or not because the moment the accusation was made your mind was made up and you will fit any set of circumstance to fit your preconceived notion of what happened. In that way, you are a lot in common with Goodell and his minions.
Screw it, can't resist...
First, the footballs were deflated. Nobody questions that.
The psi measured at halftime was consistent with atmospheric conditions at the time. That's been proven by multiple outside 3rd parties. Nobody questions it, but many people don't understand what it means. The other thing nobody questions now is that the NFL intentionally leaked false info to Chris Mortensen about the psi levels, in other words the whole thing was predicated on a lie from the NFL. You you and others have lapped up everything they have spewed since.
The two locker room guys took them into the mens room. That is fact.
That is NOT a fact, it is wrong. Only one person was ever n the restroom with the footballs, not two. He was in there for something like 90 seconds. I'd like to see anyone do what he is supposed to have done to 12 footballs in 90 seconds. The much more likely and probable scenario is that he was in the bathroom to pee before heading out to the field for a few hours.
they had already been checked by the officials and should not have been returned to anyone in the Patriots organization.
There is no documented process that supports this assertion. In fact, common practice across the league says otherwise. That will change in 2015 as the league really left themselves with no choice but to put some specific procedures in place after all this nonsense.
The texts between to two guys shows them to be guilty.
Not true. They can be made to fit a narrative based on a certain set of assumptions, but the texts themselves prove nothing. And even if you want to believe the texts were about manually taking the air out of footballs, there is nothing that indicates that was being done after the officials inspection. Nothing. They could let all the air out before the inspection and leave it to the officials to fix it. Aaron Rogers has admitted that he like the footballs hard and they regularly over-inflate them in the hopes that they slip by the officials that way, and given the lack of a documented, consistent pre-game ball inspection process I'd bet they often did.
Now comes the question of who would want softer footballs. Obviously someone who handles the ball. The only people who handle the ball on every play are the center and the qb. I doubt that the center cares about this.
All NFL quarterbacks have their own preferences, and have access to and are allowed to prepare game balls in the week leading up to a game. There is nothing nefarious or against the rules about doing this. They all do it.
The next part of this that implicates Brady is that the league requested his phone records and he refused to supply them.
He did supply his phone records. He didn't hand over his personal phone, and Wells is on record as confirming that he told Brady the didn't need/want the phone and would not be punished for not turning it over. Fast forward a few months and the NFL's case is falling apart and so they try to make it all about the "destroyed" phone. Don't look at what's in my left hand, focus on my right hand.
This is not a court of law, this is an internal private investigation. Brady had no legal standing to refuse to cooperate.
Brady has no legal standing to refuse to turn over his phone? That's a ridiculous statement. The NFL has no legal standing to require hat he turn over his personal phone, and there is nothing in the collective bargaining agreement that says he has to. By the way, when the NFLPA asked for correspondence between Goodell and Wells and Wells hid behind attorney client privilege...so much for being "independent".
The league took this refusal, along with the implications in the texts, decided that the deflation was requested/ordered by Brady and that he is subject to discipline.
I believe that they decided this is the story they wanted to put out there and then focused on the circumstantial evidence that most supported that story and ignored everything else (why else would the testimony of the two ball attendants not be included in the Wells Report?).
Brady could have avoided this by coming clean.
Only if you assume he is guilty of something. If you allow for even the possibility that he isn't, then why would he "come clean" if he didn't do anything wrong? In any case, this isn't true because the NFL leaked false info that made this thing look like something it isn't before Brady or anyone else even had a chance to react.
I don't know who exactly did what.
But you just posted that "it is a fact" that two ballboys deflated footballs in the bathroom. So which is it, you know for a fact it was two ballboys in bathroom, or you don't know who did what?
But there is no doubt that balls were tampered with
Pardon me? There is so much doubt about this that the NFL went and changed the entire narrative to being about "lack of cooperation" and a cell phone...they want you to forget what's in their right hand and only look at their left hand, a classic illusionist move.
it was most likely done in that mens room by the two guys who wound up under the bus
Wait, it is "no doubt" or "most likely"? You keep contradicting yourself on this.
Something else to consider...if the two ball attendants are at the center of this and are supposed to have been acting on orders from TB12 then why was their sworn testimony completely omitted from the "independent" Wells Report? Don't you think that would be relevant? I'll give you the answer...because their testimony did not fit with the narrative that the NFL wanted to Wells Report to tell.
Nobody from the Patriots has stepped forward, everyone was pleading ignorance.
According to Wells himself, everyone from the Patriots has cooperated every step along the way. Their stories have been consistent all the way through this, the same cannot be said of the NFL officials involved.
The league has no reason to come down on one of their most successful franchises.
The reasons the NFL has done what it has done are known only to them, but there has been much speculation and many plausible theories about this. I'm not going to rehash them but they are out there if you really care.
The Patriots made this a big deal, not the NFL.
This is perhaps the most ridiculous thing written in this thread to date. And it just takes two words to prove you are 100% wrong on this: Mort Report.
The NFL tried negotiating a lesser penalty, but Brady's people and the NFLPA refused to budge.
Really? Where is this coming from? Goodell did not consult Brady or anyone else from the Patriots or the NFLPA prior to issuing his punishment. Since then, all the reports I've seen indicate that neither side is willing to budge an inch. If you have info that indicates otherwise, please cite your source.
You can point out all of the things you want to about possible discrepancies and circumstantial evidence, but, as I have said before, this is not a court of law. The NFL found a rules violation. The Patriots admitted to nothing. Did the Patriots or their fans really think that this would just go away?
The NFL found a rules violation because that's what they wanted to do. The lack of independence of the "independent" investigation, leaks of false info, the deep flaws in the scientific portion of the Wells Report, lies about what went on at the appeal hearing, all topped of by Roger Goodell's baffling and factually inacurate answer (non-answer) yesterday when asked about the Mort Report add up to way more circumstantial evidence suggesting an NFL witch hunt than there is about Brady ordering the deflation of footballs.
[Edited on 8/12/2015 by gondicar]
I can't believe anybody still cares about this. In the overall scheme of things, to me this is a complete non issue, not worth even fooling into, certainly not worth all this time, money, and bandwidth. The NFL should've donate all the money they've spent on this crap to inner city youth organizations. Its like launching an investigation into a missed holding call and then calling the team that did the holding "cheaters". Please.
I can't believe anybody still cares about this. In the overall scheme of things, to me this is a complete non issue, not worth even fooling into, certainly not worth all this time, money, and bandwidth. The NFL should've donate all the money they've spent on this crap to inner city youth organizations. Its like launching an investigation into a missed holding call and then calling the team that did the holding "cheaters". Please.
A voice of reason. Thank you.
So, reports are that the NFL wanted Brady to settle with fine AND accepting the Wells Report, which is an admittance of guilt and would open the door for a case of perjury against him. In civil cases you typically settle with money AND no admittance.
Blow by blow from within the meeting, courtesy of Stephen Brown, the Manhattan court reporter for the NY Daily News. Very interesting so far...
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-tom-brady-sux-beer-20150812-story.html
That is pretty funny. And brilliant marketing with pickups from major media outlets across the country.
Hey jszfunk, do you know this Indy brewer? Is their beer good? If so, maybe we can bet a six-pack of this against a 6-pack of Maine's finest brew (we have a lot to choose from) on the Pats/Indy game this year.
15 pages of bliss...
used to have Narragansett beer here in RI. Lord, it was awful. I think they moved to Texas.
heh heh...
just saw espn's bottom line.
numbers might be off but close, I'm sure someone will correct me. Poll is of 100 players.
75 per cent say Pats did something with balls, Brady/Pats responsible...but...68 per cent say all teams do it.
80 per cent say penalty on Brady is too much.
I'm just going to leave this here...
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-tom-brady-sux-beer-20150812-story.html
That is pretty funny. And brilliant marketing with pickups from major media outlets across the country.
Hey jszfunk, do you know this Indy brewer? Is their beer good? If so, maybe we can bet a six-pack of this against a 6-pack of Maine's finest brew (we have a lot to choose from) on the Pats/Indy game this year.
Brillant!
Sun King is probably the biggest craft brewrey here in Indiana and one of the more popular ones too. I have had a few of them from there and they are pretty good. It is so hard to keep up with all of these local breweries. The are just popping up almost weekly. We did somoe kayaking up in northren Michigan last week and I had some pretty good ones from up there too.
Here is a link to the website
http://www.sunkingbrewing.com/home.html
[Edited on 8/12/2015 by jszfunk]
[Edited on 8/12/2015 by jszfunk]
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
Lots of interesting reports coming out from today's hearing, the vast majority of which seem to favor Brady.
A quote from Adam Shefter: "If Judge Berman was critical of NFL last week, he was even more critical today. Questions of fundamental fairness and evident impartiality."
After the hearing the judge said he is still pushing for a settlement. Next hearing is Mon, Aug. 31 if no settlement by then. And on it goes...
Better late than never...
ESPN Apologizes to New England Patriots While Everyone is Asleep
This apology aired at approximately 12:20am during the 12am edition of SportsCenter on Thursday, August 20th, 2015:
It irks the sh!t out of me knowing that the NFL sits on stuff like this and spends $4M on a poorly executed witch hunt to take down one of the greatest players in history. Not to mention, Warren Sapp leading a symposium to teach rookies how to behave is a joke.
http://deadspin.com/cris-carters-fall-guy-advice-was-kept-off-the-record-1726215757
Cris Carter's "Fall Guy" Advice Was Kept Off The Record At The NFL's Request
At the 2014 NFL Rookie Symposium, Cris Carter told incoming players that it’s in their best interests to have a “fall guy” in their crew—one man willing to take the rap and even go to jail to keep the player out of trouble. There was, for the first time in the symposium’s history, a reporter in the audience: The MMQB’s Robert Klemko. Though Klemko wrote an account of the panel led by Carter and Warren Sapp, he did not mention these comments. Now we know it’s because the NFL asked him not to.
Today Klemko addressed his experience at the symposium and his choice not to publish the controversial remarks.
I agreed to the NFL’s condition that I would not enter the small group sessions, and there would be one or two things the league could look back on and say, ‘that was off the record.’ When the public relations or marketing arm representing an org or a player facilitates access such as this, there is often a verbal agreement that certain details observed in the course of reporting may be negotiated for omission. Personally, I only agree to these omissions when the subject matter is immaterial to what I gather is the larger point of the story, which, in the case of the symposium, I believed Carter’s comment was.
[...]
When Carter said the words, “have a fall guy” in what was a light-hearted and animated session that at times made league employees in attendance cringe, the NFL’s Kim Fields looked my way and said, “that can’t go in the story.” I was torn.
This is a very real problem for all reporters, but especially one who had been invited to a previously private event that had engendered much public curiosity. The news value of a quote or a story has to be pretty high to justify burning a source, even more so when that source is the NFL itself, and a football reporter’s career is dependent on future access. (Access journalism is a scourge, but so deeply entrenched that it’s unrealistic to pretend it’s going anywhere.) At its worst, the symbiotic relationship leads to reporters passing along false information, as in the Ballghazi case. At lesser levels you get something like Klemko’s omission: a news judgment being made by someone other than the newsmen, which ultimately renders the whole operation spiritually closer to marketing than to reporting.
(Cross-sport, I’m reminded of HBO Sports’ gorgeous 24/7, a supposed “all-access” show on which the NHL itself got final cut for what would or wouldn’t make the broadcast. Anything that had the potential to make the league or its stars look bad never saw the light of day. Was 24/7 valuable for hockey fans? Absolutely. Was it as much PR as it was documentary? You know it.)
Klemko recalls performing his own internal calculus on whether the Carter quote was worth torpedoing his relationship with the NFL, and whether his reporting was worthwhile without it. He decided it was.
I loved the Carter quote for how outlandish and idiotic it was, but I didn’t see it as emblematic of the symposium. Upon reflection, I suppose that detail might have highlighted the minor perils of the symposium’s transformation under Vincent. Maybe it was a mistake not to run it, but I had made an agreement which boiled down to this: Tell 95% of an untold story, or none of it. I chose 95% because I wanted to take readers someplace they’d never been, and I wanted to continue getting access to these sorts of events. The reality is nearly all of us reporters make these concessions.
Klemko’s dispatches from the rookie symposium were enlightening enough, but suffer greatly in hindsight from what they’re missing. He consciously omitted the clear most interesting thing that happened at that four-day gathering, notable not just for its whiff of scandal, but for being probably the single most useful and honest advice the rookies were given. It says something about today’s NFL that players are actively (if half-facetiously) being told they need someone willing to do time for them, and it says something about Troy Vincent that he decided Cris Carter and Warren Sapp were the ones best equipped to impart their wisdom. Either of those would be a better and truer story than what Klemko filed.
Of course, it’s remarkably easy for us to—sorry—Monday-morning quarterback Klemko’s decision. We wouldn’t have to choose whether to accede to an NFL flack’s preemptive off-the-record requests because we wouldn’t be invited to an event like this in the first place. (Chicken and egg: we wouldn’t be invited because we wouldn’t accede.) It was a tough call for Klemko, and as he says in his message today, “I need to be tougher.”
At least let’s all join together and laugh at the NFL that managed to keep Carter’s comments out of a national publication, then put them up on its own website.
*BUMP* for being back in court today! 😛
After making a public statement earlier this month that he wanted nothing to do with it, Giants owner John Mara is at the court hearing today at the request of the judge. Presumably his role to help convince the league to settle (why else would he be asked to be there?).
No settlement (shocker), and the judge said he expects to announce his decision Tuesday or Wednesday, or "definitely" by Friday.
According to Gery Myers of the NY Daily NEws, the judge expects to make decision Tues or Wed and will either stick with 4 games or vacate. Then expect appeal. So, no end in sight apparently.
[Edited on 8/31/2015 by gondicar]
