Question for Gondy? I don't follow this anywhere near the attention to detail you so do you know if Kraft actually had some type of assurance from Goddell that they would take it easy on Brady if he did not fight the fine and loss of draft picks? or was he assuming this based on his friendship with Goodell?
I don't know that they had a quid pro quo deal, but yesterday Kraft sure made it sound like he had an expectation that not taking the NFL to court over the team penalties and suspending the two ball attendants would have a positive impact on Brady's appeal. He clearly feels betrayed by RG and the league and sounds like the gloves are coming back off.
Oh it sounds like he definitely was expecting quid pro quo from Goodell but unless he had some type of assurances going in his rant yesterday would be a little disingenuous to expect anything in return IMHO.
As business man I would think he would have wanted a deal in place before he agreed to accept the penalty Goodell imposed on the team.
That being said it would not surprise me if Goodell back stabbed him so I wonder if there is more to the story then we are being told.
Question for Gondy? I don't follow this anywhere near the attention to detail you so do you know if Kraft actually had some type of assurance from Goddell that they would take it easy on Brady if he did not fight the fine and loss of draft picks? or was he assuming this based on his friendship with Goodell?
I don't know that they had a quid pro quo deal, but yesterday Kraft sure made it sound like he had an expectation that not taking the NFL to court over the team penalties and suspending the two ball attendants would have a positive impact on Brady's appeal. He clearly feels betrayed by RG and the league and sounds like the gloves are coming back off.
Oh it sounds like he definitely was expecting quid pro quo from Goodell but unless he had some type of assurances going in his rant yesterday would be a little disingenuous to expect anything in return IMHO.
As business man I would think he would have wanted a deal in place before he agreed to accept the penalty Goodell imposed on the team.
That being said it would not surprise me if Goodell back stabbed him so I wonder if there is more to the story then we are being told.
I believe that Kraft tried to placate Goodell by his admission of team guilt in the hopes that the NFL would go easy on Brady. However, since Brady and his agent refused to take any blame, they more or less left few options for Goodell. I think it was Brady who let Kraft down and not Goodell in this instance.
Forget Brady's suspension that is yesterdays news
Those Brady's just can't keep from breaking rules 😛
you're bringing Gisele into this? and Patriots fans have no class...
whatever "the Brady's" do on their own time is nobody's business. Whatever happened to the prevailing attitude around here that "leave others alone"? y'know, mind your own business.
whatever, some people just got to hang other people's laundry out. Makes 'em feel all snugly and safe. I'm not defending the woman. I'm not making fun of her either. You stick an emoticon at the end of your post why, to lend a sort of wistful playfulness to it? Be concerned about your own woman, leave another man's alone. and you told me to grow up. How would you like someone making fun of your wife?
hey Lee
glad you liked it 😛 I knew you would. You're a good guy.
She is a public figure it was posted in newspaper article my friend I did not write it.
These people are not your family piacere so stop taking this so seriously. You really need to get a life.
you went and pulled it off the internet and posted it here.
who needs to get a life?
stick to the topic at hand. You're good at it.
😛
I read it in the paper and posted it here. She is Brady's wife and thought some might find it interesting and a distraction from you whining and beating the dead horse of Brady's suspension.
Unlike you I am not treating this whole affair as if one of my family members is on trial. Football is a game my friend not life and death. You really need to step away from the keyboard and get some perspective.
And now that I know how interested you are in how Giselle makes out with the French authorities for wearing a burka I will be sure to post daily updates for you. 😉 😛
[Edited on 7/30/2015 by Bill_Graham]
[Edited on 7/30/2015 by Bill_Graham]
nice edit. and I'm the obnoxious one. 😉
That has to be one of the most ironic statements I have ever read on this forum and one of the funniest.
me? obnoxious? 😉
as obnoxious as the onslaught of verbal garbage, opinions, accusations, innuendo, insults, championship envy, arrows slung from every angle...all for 6 months? you mean, THAT obnoxious?
yes. Yes I am.
glad you saw the humor. and if you're outside New England...KMA. 😛
and yeah, Goodell did a 180. I think Kraft thought if he took the high road there'd be a level of leniency.
I don't like the Patriots, they are not my team.
If all their fans think they are so damn good, why do they need to do this crap?
Fans can be as smug as they want, yes they thrashed the Colts, (not my team either) but why are they so often linked with provable cheating?
this thread's first post.
"so often" linked to "provable" cheating.
and I'll ask yet again, name me one game, ONE GAME, where provable cheating helped the Patriots win.
ONE.
Question for Gondy? I don't follow this anywhere near the attention to detail you so do you know if Kraft actually had some type of assurance from Goddell that they would take it easy on Brady if he did not fight the fine and loss of draft picks? or was he assuming this based on his friendship with Goodell?
I don't know that they had a quid pro quo deal, but yesterday Kraft sure made it sound like he had an expectation that not taking the NFL to court over the team penalties and suspending the two ball attendants would have a positive impact on Brady's appeal. He clearly feels betrayed by RG and the league and sounds like the gloves are coming back off.
Oh it sounds like he definitely was expecting quid pro quo from Goodell but unless he had some type of assurances going in his rant yesterday would be a little disingenuous to expect anything in return IMHO.
As business man I would think he would have wanted a deal in place before he agreed to accept the penalty Goodell imposed on the team.
That being said it would not surprise me if Goodell back stabbed him so I wonder if there is more to the story then we are being told.
I believe that Kraft tried to placate Goodell by his admission of team guilt in the hopes that the NFL would go easy on Brady. However, since Brady and his agent refused to take any blame, they more or less left few options for Goodell. I think it was Brady who let Kraft down and not Goodell in this instance.
you don't think Goodell could have honored Kraft's decision? Goodell could've buried this in a day or two.
Question for Gondy? I don't follow this anywhere near the attention to detail you so do you know if Kraft actually had some type of assurance from Goddell that they would take it easy on Brady if he did not fight the fine and loss of draft picks? or was he assuming this based on his friendship with Goodell?
I don't know that they had a quid pro quo deal, but yesterday Kraft sure made it sound like he had an expectation that not taking the NFL to court over the team penalties and suspending the two ball attendants would have a positive impact on Brady's appeal. He clearly feels betrayed by RG and the league and sounds like the gloves are coming back off.
Oh it sounds like he definitely was expecting quid pro quo from Goodell but unless he had some type of assurances going in his rant yesterday would be a little disingenuous to expect anything in return IMHO.
As business man I would think he would have wanted a deal in place before he agreed to accept the penalty Goodell imposed on the team.
That being said it would not surprise me if Goodell back stabbed him so I wonder if there is more to the story then we are being told.
I believe that Kraft tried to placate Goodell by his admission of team guilt in the hopes that the NFL would go easy on Brady. However, since Brady and his agent refused to take any blame, they more or less left few options for Goodell. I think it was Brady who let Kraft down and not Goodell in this instance.
you don't think Goodell could have honored Kraft's decision? Goodell could've buried this in a day or two.
Maybe if Brady had admitted to his part. Brady circled the wagons, why would Goodell overlook that?
...because what we're thinking may have been a deal was a deal. or...Kraft carries way more weight than Brady, Goodell works for Kraft, in a sense, all 32 owners. Too much happened behind closed doors for anyone to know. I'm curious as to whether any other owners chimed in.
all of this shouldn't be left up to one man to decide and him basing his decision on any insiders he deems worthy to listen to. It just doesn't seem impartial to me.
...because what we're thinking may have been a deal was a deal. or...Kraft carries way more weight than Brady, Goodell works for Kraft, in a sense, all 32 owners. Too much happened behind closed doors for anyone to know. I'm curious as to whether any other owners chimed in.
all of this shouldn't be left up to one man to decide and him basing his decision on any insiders he deems worthy to listen to. It just doesn't seem impartial to me.
He's either a commissioner or he isn't. The history of the title, which of course began in baseball, shows a creation of a centralized authority.
That was, of course, long before player's unions. The current CBA expires in 2020. At this rate, we can guarantee a work stoppage for the 2021 season...
...because what we're thinking may have been a deal was a deal. or...Kraft carries way more weight than Brady, Goodell works for Kraft, in a sense, all 32 owners. Too much happened behind closed doors for anyone to know. I'm curious as to whether any other owners chimed in.
all of this shouldn't be left up to one man to decide and him basing his decision on any insiders he deems worthy to listen to. It just doesn't seem impartial to me.
I think that is the idea of the commissioner to give one man the power to make decisions. if the 32 owners did not give Goodell the power to make these decision he could not have.
What I think was a sham was Goodell acting arbitrator when Brady challenged the ruling. In essence he became judge and jury. It should have gone to an independent arbitrator for binding arbitration IMHO.
I completely understand why people believe what they do, the NFL has won the PR battle. That's over. It's no longer about air pressure (was it ever?), it is now about a phone and that has completely shifted the narrative. Brilliant. They are obviously very good at it at the PR game, I get that. But the view from the bunker in Foxboro is quite different than from the ivory tower that every other football fan outside NE seems to be cramming themselves in to. From the bunker we see facts and not NFL PR spin.
This sentiment only goes so far no matter where you sit, be it a bunker or anywhere else. The Patriots are a member franchise of the league. You cannot separate them completely. It's not like the Patriots can go off and do business on their own, they are part of a league.
Everyone's going around these days demanding proof. If there's proof of a conspiratorial plot against the New England Patriots by the league office, that would be a sight to see.
I've never been employed by a professional sports team, but I spent a lot of years in the service and hotel industry and have met or been around literally countless pro athletes, coaches and front office folks, all in what would be called public settings. In those settings, more often than not, the amount of ego and arrogance is almost comical by sheer volume. One can only imagine what ego plus competitiveness is like behind closed doors. I would take a solid guess (and wouldn't be surprised at all) that a lot of this situation has to do with egos and personal dislikes behind the scenes.
One thing is for sure, the NFL waited for the start of training camp and that was so stupid. At this point, as a fan "outside New England," I actually care very little what the Patriots are up to. Actually, I don't care at all. My team is looking solid for the season and the return of one of our players from a cancer diagnosis is a helluva story.
The memes and jokes and snide remarks about "cheaters" isn't going to go away, that's the world we live in. The internet enables more banter than ever. If folks in the bunker are holding out for some sort of complete vindication, they aren't going to get it.
I don't like the Patriots, they are not my team.
If all their fans think they are so damn good, why do they need to do this crap?
Fans can be as smug as they want, yes they thrashed the Colts, (not my team either) but why are they so often linked with provable cheating?
this thread's first post.
"so often" linked to "provable" cheating.
and I'll ask yet again, name me one game, ONE GAME, where provable cheating helped the Patriots win.
ONE.
How about explaining what "so often" means?
Spygate is one such infraction (the Patriots admitted it, paid an unprecedented penalty for it, and moved on...unfortunately no one else seems to have moved on), but what are the others? There must be a long list, but other than Spygate and a few PED users (which every team has had), you have to go back to 1982 and the snow plow game to find anything the remotely resembles "provable" cheating, but then again the refs were ok with that and Commissioner Pete Rozelle also confirmed that there was no rule broken so I don't know how anyone can call it cheating. So other than Spygate, in which the Patriots were disciplined for videotaping their September 9, 2007 regular-season game against the New York Jets from an unapproved sideline location instead of from an approved indoor location (much like the Jets got away with, unpunished, a year earlier in Foxborough), there is nothing.
"I look at this testimony and I say for all the failing the NFL has, the bizarre process they use, at the end of the day where is the evidence Tom Brady participated in a ball-deflation scheme? I don't see it." -Sports Illustrated legal expert Michael McCann
The transcripts are very telling and lay bare exactly what a sh!tshow the NFL has been running for these last 6 months. Could even lead to Brady's total exoneration.
SI legal expert Michael McCann on D&C: After reading Tom Brady appeal transcript, ‘I don’t understand why he’s being suspended’
Sports Illustrated legal expert Michael McCann checked in with Dennis & Callahan on Wednesday to discuss the latest Deflategate developments, and the UNH law professor explained why he’s now shifted his position in favor of Tom Brady. To hear the interview, go to the Dennis & Callahan audio on demand page.
After seeing the transcripts of Brady’s appeal hearing that were released Tuesday, McCann said he has altered his thinking and now can’t make sense of why Brady is facing a four-game suspension.
“I don’t understand why he’s being suspended, at the end of the day,” McCann said. “And I say that because, let’s look at the testimony. He categorically denied any wrongdoing. So from that you have the fact that the standard is preponderance of evidence more likely than not, you have his denial. Then you have the absence of evidence contradicting him. Some people said, ‘Oh, he was a little evasive.’ Well, if you ask someone the same question 12 times they’re going to come up with slightly different answers and you might contend that they’re somehow being evasive because their answers aren’t the same each time. Well, that’s human nature, our answers are never the same each time.
“I look at this testimony and I say for all the failing the NFL has, the bizarre process they use, at the end of the day where is the evidence Tom Brady participated in a ball-deflation scheme? I don’t see it. Then you’re left with, OK, was he cooperative? Well, Ted Wells found him sufficiently cooperative. You have Ted Wells saying he is. Why would that would even warrant a suspension if he isn’t as cooperative as he should have been? This doesn’t add up to me.”
McCann noted that Judge Richard Berman’s job is to determine if the league overstepped its authority or mismanaged the situation, not if it penalized Brady too harshly. But after seeing the appeal transcript, McCann said Berman likely will have some concerns to address with the league when the sides get together for settlement talks.
“Initially my expectation was that he would tell Tom Brady in essence, ‘Look, this may not be fair, but the CBA gives Roger Goodell wide latitude. And even if I’m not sure about the allegations against you, it looks like the league has discretion.’ But after reading the testimony, I’m really leaning in the other direction. I’m think the judge is going to tell the NFL this was a kangaroo court. You have the cross-examiner also involved with the preparation of the so-called independent report that clearly wasn’t independent. You have categorical denials by the person who’s alleged to have done the wrongdoing. You have the lack of evidence contradicting those denials.
“I just don’t see, as deferential as the court will be to the NFL, where’s the actual evidence? What is the reasoning that led the NFL to suspending Tom Brady? And if I’m a judge, I’m going to have some hard questions for the NFL.”
McCann predicts Brady ultimately will end up with no more than a one-game suspension.
“I think there’s a good chance it will get settled in a couple of weeks. I don’t think it’s going to go to a [judge’s] decision,” McCann said. “I think right now they’re probably negotiating between a fine and one game, and there’s probably an argument over that. Before I thought maybe Brady would maybe agree to a two-game suspension, but after reading this transcript I’m of the belief that Brady should hold out until he gets it down to a fine.”
Following are more highlights from the conversation:
On the judge’s role: “Berman is going to be looking at this, not whether or not Tom Brady is ‘guilty,’ it’s whether or not the NFL lawfully interpreted the CBA, which are two very different questions. The first one I think clearly favors Tom Brady. There’s no real evidence that he did anything wrong, and he denies it. But that’s not the question that Judge Berman’s going to ask when he makes a decision, if he makes a decision. It’s going to be, did the NFL lawfully interpret the CBA, which isn’t as clear cut in favor of Tom Brady,
“So I think what the judge will tell Tom Brady, in so many words: ‘Look, I get why you’re here. I get why you’re angry. I get why you think you have been wronged. But those are not the considerations that I’m going to use when I decide whether or not the NFL is right. So when you think about a settlement, even if you believe 100 percent that you did nothing wrong, it may still be in your interest to settle. Because the question is not to me going to be, did you do it? It’s going to be, did the NFL lawfully interpret the CBA.’
“So I don’t think he’s going to hold it against Tom Brady if Brady doesn’t seem flexible in a settlement discussion, but I think he’s going to remind Brady that when he pores over these issues in terms of the lawfulness of how the NFL interpreted the CBA, it’s not going to be the types of questions that are going to be, did Tom Brady do it, which is the one Tom Brady’s going to want to be asked.”
On who he believes has more leverage heading into the settlement talks: “I think Tom Brady does. I think the transcripts, the absence of evidence against Tom Brady, that puts Brady in an advantageous position. But I wouldn’t say it’s a slam dunk. I’m not going to say Brady will definitely win. Because I’m also aware of the fact that the NFL is going to be accorded a good deal of deference under federal labor law and arbitration law, and then that benefits the NFL. To me, this is a case where the judge would have to look at this and say, ‘I have real concerns about this, but I’m obligated to look at federal law, which says that I have to provide high deference to the NFL and as troubled as this process was, it’s not enough for me to invalidate it.’ So I think Brady has the leverage, but it isn’t so much that I think it’s a slam dunk he’s going to win.”
On the judge’s role in determining if the punishment was reasonable: “There is an absence of evidence. But the absence of evidence gets back to process. That the process, in order to be lawfully applied, has to be done in a way that’s not arbitrary or capricious. That’s a pretty low bar for the NFL to meet. But when I look at the testimony, I would say where is the evidence that gets the NFL to a four-game suspension. It can’t be an arbitrary number, right? It can’t be a capricious result. There has to be some logic from Point A to Point B. And I don’t see that in the transcript. Honestly, I don’t.”
On the judge telling the sides that the discussions will be made public: “It’s common for a judge to push for settlement. But what I really like what he’s doing is he’s telling both sides, ‘I’m not a private forum. I’m not an arbitrator. I’m not a mediator. Don’t approach this as if you can do things in confidence and I’m going to keep things in confidence. You are availing yourself of taxpayer-funded resources with this system of court. If you’re going to do that, if you can’t settle this on your own, you’re going to have to do things in public, and there’s going to be a record, and it’s going to be open to the public.’ I really like the approach. I think it’s the exact right tone he should be making. I don’t think leagues and players, that are billionaires and millionaires, should be able to go to court and treated [to] a system of arbitration that’s in private. You’re going to go to court, you’re going to be treated like everyone else, its going to be in public. I like this approach. I think the language about ‘avoiding scored earth’ is unique, but it’s unique because rarely is a case so public. I think it was the appropriate tone for the judge to take.”
On if the case would have been dismissed if it were a legal proceeding form the beginning: “Yeah, I think this case gets dismissed. What’s keeping this case alive is that this related to the collective bargaining agreement that the players association signed on to. In a way, Brady’s own enemy is his own union. His union agreed to this crazy system that is not justice at all. But because they agreed to it and because he’s a member of the union he has to abide by it and the court can’t throw it out. So if you take away that, if you take away the whole collective bargaining relationship, I think this would be tossed in a minute. … I would hope that in the next CBA the players association does a better job of creating some protocols. Also, I have a feeling Robert Kraft and other owners are going to demand that as well. Giving Roger Goodell all this discretion has not helped him, it hasn’t helped the league, it’s created a lot of embarrassment for all involved.”
Could even lead to Brady's total exoneration.
I'd bet on a one game suspension for face-saving purposes. The NFL has put itself in a position where they have jeopardized the actual position of commissioner. That's a slippery slope for all kinds of reasons.
Could even lead to Brady's total exoneration.
I'd bet on a one game suspension for face-saving purposes. The NFL has put itself in a position where they have jeopardized the actual position of commissioner. That's a slippery slope for all kinds of reasons.
It's in the judge's hands now and I'm not sure he cares who saves face at the end of the day.
Could even lead to Brady's total exoneration.
I'd bet on a one game suspension for face-saving purposes. The NFL has put itself in a position where they have jeopardized the actual position of commissioner. That's a slippery slope for all kinds of reasons.
It's in the judge's hands now and I'm not sure he cares who saves face at the end of the day.
The judge is going to interpret along the lines of how the CBA was followed. He may not actually get into what happened with the game balls at all. Should be very interesting.
What amazes me about this whole mess is how ready everyone has been to lap up everything the NFL execs have be selling since January (including the false info they put out that many people still think it true even though it was debunked by the Wells Report itself) despite their track record of ALWAYS being overturned on appeal. So here is another case of a league exec putting out info that no one can explain...
Is anybody talking about this? The NFL senior VP of operations Dave Gardi blatantly making up information about the PSI’s of the footballs. Just totally misrepresenting the facts? There is no explanation as to why David Gardi said balls were as low as 10.1 PSI. Nobody can explain it. Nobody can explain how this was made up out of thin air and sent to Mr. Kraft and leaked to the press. Kind of a big deal no? Can somebody remind me how we’re the ones on trial again? Time and time again the NFL has been caught lying, stealing, cheating through this entire investigation and yet nobody seems to care. Oh and guess what team Dave Gardi’s family worked for. The NY Jets! DING! DING! DING!
What amazes me about this whole mess is how ready everyone has been to lap up everything the NFL execs have be selling since January (including the false info they put out that many people still think it true even though it was debunked by the Wells Report itself) despite their track record of ALWAYS being overturned on appeal. So here is another case of a league exec putting out info that no one can explain...
forgive me for only quoting part of your quote, but I just want to address what you said here. You are amazed that everyone is, in your words, lapping up everything that the NFL says. Do you realize that is exactly what you do in regards to Brady and the Patriots? Does that amaze you as well? 😉
What amazes me about this whole mess is how ready everyone has been to lap up everything the NFL execs have be selling since January (including the false info they put out that many people still think it true even though it was debunked by the Wells Report itself) despite their track record of ALWAYS being overturned on appeal. So here is another case of a league exec putting out info that no one can explain...
forgive me for only quoting part of your quote, but I just want to address what you said here. You are amazed that everyone is, in your words, lapping up everything that the NFL says. Do you realize that is exactly what you do in regards to Brady and the Patriots? Does that amaze you as well? 😉
The difference being of course is that until this Brady had an untarnished record (and before you go there, he was not implicated in any way during Spygate) while the NFL has a very tarnished record. Yet everyone laps up every word that NFL puts out like it is gospel and convicted Tom Brady as soon as the very first accusation (which we all know now was false, thanks Mort and Mike Kensil) flew.
[Edited on 8/5/2015 by gondicar]
What amazes me about this whole mess is how ready everyone has been to lap up everything the NFL execs have be selling since January (including the false info they put out that many people still think it true even though it was debunked by the Wells Report itself) despite their track record of ALWAYS being overturned on appeal. So here is another case of a league exec putting out info that no one can explain...
forgive me for only quoting part of your quote, but I just want to address what you said here. You are amazed that everyone is, in your words, lapping up everything that the NFL says. Do you realize that is exactly what you do in regards to Brady and the Patriots? Does that amaze you as well? 😉
The difference being of course is that until this Brady had an untarnished record (and before you go there, he was not implicated in any way during Spygate) while the NFL has a very tarnished record. Yet everyone laps up every word that NFL puts out like it is gospel and convicted Tom Brady as soon as the very first accusation (which we all know now was false, thanks Mort and Mike Kensil) flew.
[Edited on 8/5/2015 by gondicar]
I don't know who exactly did what. But there is no doubt that balls were tampered with, it was most likely done in that mens room by the two guys who wound up under the bus, and there would be no reason to do it unless someone who handled the balls (sorry for that double entendre) wanted them altered. Nobody from the Patriots has stepped forward, everyone was pleading ignorance. The league has no reason to come down on one of their most successful franchises. so, if you take a more objective look, the Patriots were most likely hiding something and Brady, in particular, was the most uncooperative. The Patriots made this a big deal, not the NFL. The NFL tried negotiating a lesser penalty, but Brady's people and the NFLPA refused to budge. You can point out all of the things you want to about possible discrepancies and circumstantial evidence, but, as I have said before, this is not a court of law. The NFL found a rules violation. The Patriots admitted to nothing. Did the Patriots or their fans really think that this would just go away?
But there is no doubt that balls were tampered with,
Sorry but have to stop you right there. If that's really what you think then no point in continuing. Let's just wait and see how it ends.
But there is no doubt that balls were tampered with,
Sorry but have to stop you right there. If that's really what you think then no point in continuing. Let's just wait and see how it ends.
Then I will be sure to not read your long diatribes as there is no point in them.
The real funny thing is that the very first post of this thread references the Mort report that was based on an intentionally inaccurate leak by Mike Kensil to Mort that was proven such by the Wells Report itself. The NFL refused to correct it and just 2 days ago Mort figured how to delete the tweet with the false info more than six months later. And you wonder why I believe the guy the untarnished record over the suits who have shown a lack of judgement and ethics going back years and continuing throughout this witchhunt.
[Edited on 8/6/2015 by gondicar]
The real funny thing is that the very first post of this thread references the Mort report that was based on an intentionally inaccurate leak by Mike Kensil to Mort that was proven such by the Wells Report itself. The NFL refused to correct it and just 2 days ago Mort figured how to delete the tweet with the false info more than six months later. And you wonder why I believe the guy the untarnished record over the suits who have shown a lack of judgement and ethics going back years and continuing throughout this witchhunt.
[Edited on 8/6/2015 by gondicar]
Not to beat a dead horse, but your mind was made up as soon as the Patriots were named as the team involved in this. Everything else that happened did not change your opinion at all.
The real funny thing is that the very first post of this thread references the Mort report that was based on an intentionally inaccurate leak by Mike Kensil to Mort that was proven such by the Wells Report itself. The NFL refused to correct it and just 2 days ago Mort figured how to delete the tweet with the false info more than six months later. And you wonder why I believe the guy the untarnished record over the suits who have shown a lack of judgement and ethics going back years and continuing throughout this witchhunt.
[Edited on 8/6/2015 by gondicar]
Not to beat a dead horse, but your mind was made up as soon as the Patriots were named as the team involved in this. Everything else that happened did not change your opinion at all.
Innocent until proven guilty. Despite the NFL's best efforts, the "proven guilty" part has been an issue.
Now that Tom Brady transcripts have been released, let the Cold, Hard Football Facts summarize for you quickly the entire DeflateGate controversy in 5 bullet points:
1) The entire controversy was fabricated by the NFL, based upon accusations by and apparent collaboration between two teams that can't beat the Patriots, the Ravens and the Colts. It was fueled by NFL executive Mike Kensil, a man who spent many years as a senior front-office executive with another Patriots whipping boy, the New York Jets.
2) The story, including faulty information from Kensil, was blown up by NFL allies in the media, including Bob Kravitz of the Indy Star, who covers a team that can't beat the Patriots, and Chris Mortensen of ESPN, who fed the nation a story that stood in contradiction to facts admitted by the NFL.
He only just retracted the story this week, seven months later.
3) The entire case against Brady is based upon innocuous texts about Brady instructing a ball boy to take care of the footballs ... like any QB would say at any time to any ball boy.
Many of the accusations made by the NFL, meanwhile, are easily explained by science, including the Ideal Gas Law (which NFL officials admitted they knew nothing about before accusing Brady of wrongdoing); and by the fact that NFL officials have admitted that balls lose air pressure during games.
Keep in mind, this entire time, the NFL found that the Colts ALSO played the AFC title game with footballs that measured under the legal limit. The league simply ignored this fact, as if the rules applied to only one team.
4) There is NO proof, no video, no audio, no document, no text, no admission, no data, no communication of any kind that shows that Tom Brady had any role in illegally doctoring footballs so that they were below legal guidelines. None. This proof does not exist. Shit, there is barely any evidence of wrongdoing by Brady, let alone a smoking gun.
5) The legal world has a term for a person against whom no proof of wrongdoing exists: "Innocent."
And for all this, Gridiron Godfather Roger Goodell and the mighty NFL endeavored to destroy the reputation of one of its all-time great players. In doing so, the NFL chiseled away at the foundation of its own integrity ... apparently without realizing it.
Nice job, NFL.
For Goodell, meanwhile, sounds like he'll soon learn what the Colts, Ravens, Jets and others have long known: trying to take down Tommy is a fatal mistake.
The real funny thing is that the very first post of this thread references the Mort report that was based on an intentionally inaccurate leak by Mike Kensil to Mort that was proven such by the Wells Report itself. The NFL refused to correct it and just 2 days ago Mort figured how to delete the tweet with the false info more than six months later. And you wonder why I believe the guy the untarnished record over the suits who have shown a lack of judgement and ethics going back years and continuing throughout this witchhunt.
[Edited on 8/6/2015 by gondicar]
Not to beat a dead horse, but your mind was made up as soon as the Patriots were named as the team involved in this. Everything else that happened did not change your opinion at all.
Innocent until proven guilty. Despite the NFL's best efforts, the "proven guilty" part has been an issue.
Not exactly. The balls were tested and found within the specs before they were given to the Patriots. Later on, they were not within specs. The burden of proof falls on the Patriots. This is not a court of law, innocent until proven guilty does not apply.
The real funny thing is that the very first post of this thread references the Mort report that was based on an intentionally inaccurate leak by Mike Kensil to Mort that was proven such by the Wells Report itself. The NFL refused to correct it and just 2 days ago Mort figured how to delete the tweet with the false info more than six months later. And you wonder why I believe the guy the untarnished record over the suits who have shown a lack of judgement and ethics going back years and continuing throughout this witchhunt.
Not to beat a dead horse, but your mind was made up as soon as the Patriots were named as the team involved in this. Everything else that happened did not change your opinion at all.
Innocent until proven guilty. Despite the NFL's best efforts, the "proven guilty" part has been an issue.
Not exactly. The balls were tested and found within the specs before they were given to the Patriots. Later on, they were not within specs. The burden of proof falls on the Patriots. This is not a court of law, innocent until proven guilty does not apply.
Setting aside that the no one from the NFL documented the pre-game ball pressures and that they did a very sloppy job of measuring them at halftime which throws all of the pressure data that was collected into doubt, several well-respected and independent organizations (as well as grammar school science teachers from across the country with a football and a refrigerator) have totally debunked the scientific evidence in the Wells Report (which took up more than half of the report) as junk science and patently wrong. These same organizations also PROVED with their analysis that the pressure changes in the footballs were consistent with the atmospheric conditions present that evening without anyone tampering with them.
The burden of proof falls on the Patriots. The Patriot's had a scientific analysis done within the first few weeks of story breaking that showed the ball pressure was consistent with atmospheric conditions, and the NFL ignored it and tried to shove a faulty report down our throats instead.
Why do you think the Mike Kensil of the NFL fed Chris Mortensen false info about the pressure measurements and the NFL never did anything to retract or correct it (despite multiple pleas from the Patriots, as newly released email records show)? And that they never mentioned that several of the Colts balls were out of spec as well?
[Edited on 8/6/2015 by gondicar]
Yawn
The NFL's case against TB12 and the Pats continues to fall apart every day as more of the documents and transcripts associated with this case are made public. And now the tide seems like it may be turning within the ranks of the other NFL owners as well.
Report: Some NFL Owners Now ‘Uncomfortable’ With Way Deflategate Is Going
It appears the roller-coaster that is Deflategate has taken another turn, although it might be a positive one for Tom Brady and the New England Patriots.
While some within the NFL want to see the quarterback’s four-game Deflategate suspension upheld, “a significant number” of team owners are growing “uncomfortable” with the way the case is being handled, league sources told Jim Donaldson of The Providence Journal.
Some of the owners are even “losing patience with, and confidence in,” NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, especially after how he handled the Ray Rice situation last year, Donaldson revealed in his column, which was posted Saturday. Donaldson also added that some owners are taking issue with the money spent on the Deflategate case and how it is hurting public opinion of the league.
So how can this mess be fixed? Well, according to Donaldson, some owners want Goodell to compromise and lessen the penalties. Others within the NFL have publicly backed Goodell and his handling of the case.
With all the new evidence from Brady’s appeal transcript and now some owners reportedly losing faith in the way the league is handling Deflategate, momentum could be turning in the Patriots’ favor.
Jerry Thorton of WEEI has been one of the staunchest defenders of Brady and the Pats throughout the deflategate saga. He has often been mocked and called a "homer" and "fanboy" as have many others, including myself on these very pages. However, there are eight important points on which he has been proven right:
1. I said the Ravens and Colts colluded with each other to conduct a sting operation. They did.
This one got routinely shot down as crazy, tinfoil hat level paranoia. Ravens coach John Harbaugh vehemently denied there was any truth to it with the same conviction the Ravens have said Ray Rice didn’t punch his girlfriend and Ray Lewis didn’t obstruct justice in a double homicide investigation. Indy’s coach Chuck Pagano insisted likewise.
But now we have the email in which Colts equipment guy Sean Sullivan admits that Ravens assistant Jerry Rosburg called Pagano to tip him off about the Pats footballs being squishy.
2. I said Ted Wells’ investigation was never “independent.” It wasn’t.
While live-reading the Wells Report on air within an hour of it being released, I was struck by how slanted this thing was. A conviction based on a general awareness that was more probable than not. The glowing praise of Walt Anderson’s unquestionable memory followed by claiming he misremembered the key point about which pressure gauge he used. The fact that Jim McNally said “Deflator” once in a text in May of 2014 and Wells repeated it 15 times in his report. And all the phony findings by a notoriously corrupt junk-science-for-hire firm screamed “witch hunt.” Roger Goodell had given Wells a writing assignment with the thesis “Tom Brady is guilty” and paid him $5 million to prove it.
Well, we now know it was never “independent.” Not only did Wells invoke attorney-client privilege in his testimony, we know that Roger Goodell’s No. 2 man Jeff Pash wrote part of the damned thing. And now in the NFL’s own brief it is arguing that it doesn’t matter, that Wells’ lack of independence is not an issue. It was when Goodell claimed he was independent time and time again. But now that it’s proven to be a lie, just keep moving, citizens. There’s nothing to see here.
3. I called what the league was doing to the Patriots “a conspiracy.” It is.
On the Friday before I left for vacation the Patriots, bless them, released emails from February between team staffers and Jeff Pash begging, imploring the league to correct the false reports that were leading evening newscasts across the country. Reports they knew to be false. In short, Pash refused them any and all help.
The most damning one is from Patriots attorney Robyn Glaser to Pash: “Jeff, you need to step up. I can’t tell you the number of times you have told me that you and your office work for us member clubs. It has been made resoundingly clear to us that your words are just a front.” Glaser said this while the Pats’ public image was being decimated beyond any hope of repair. Pash’s reply was to call Glaser’s email “personal and accusatory” and then he more or less told the team to piss up a rope.
4. I accused the NFL of being involved in a cover up and hiding the truth. It has.
On July 28, Judy Battista of NFL.com began a column by saying that Brady’s side wanted the transcript of the appeal hearing kept sealed. That story was circulated and it made Brady look like he had everything to hide.
And yet Page 344 of that very document shows his lawyer Jeffrey Kessler requesting the transcript be released and NFL’s lawyer responding, “Pending the agreement, the transcript is confidential.” Now we know why. As a Supreme Court justice once said “Sunlight is the best disinfectant.”
5. I said the NFL didn’t have the first clue about how to handle footballs and ridiculously lax standards, which never bothered anyone until the AFC title game. That is now confirmed by its own officials.
In the league’s own report about how footballs will be handled going forward, Central Region supervisor of officials Gary Slaughter said:
“These are man-made products. They have a bladder and a valve. We have all checked them for many years. Sometimes when you check the ball out of the locker room right out of the box, there could be a problem. They could have a slow leak and you wouldn’t even know it at the time.”
6. I defended Tom Brady’s integrity. His own emails do it for me.
I was reluctant to read any of the 1,043 pages of Brady’s private emails because it’s worse than just celebrity gossiping; it’s un-American. It’s the worst sort of invasion of his privacy and something we should all be horrified by. But to use Brady-haters’ own words against them, he has nothing to hide.
There is nothing in there that doesn’t make him out to be a better human being than even the most motivated, starry-eyed fanboy thought he was. The exchange where he agrees to talk to the Vancouver Canucks players about his workout regimen and then sheepishly asks the owner if he’ll donate to help families in need being the shining example. But the bottom line is that in that entire document dump, there’s not one negative, un-PC, off-color, sexist, dirty or even off-color comment. Who among us can say the same thing.
All anyone could find is one mild, backhanded swipe at Peyton Manning’s longevity, and of course that’s the one the jackals in the press ran with. And in a world where Brady’s emails to Bridget Moynahan are posted on Yahoo!, explain to me again why he was wrong not to hand his phone records over to Ted Wells.
7. I’ve insisted that even if the footballs were deflated on purpose, the punishment is grossly unjust. The appeal confirms it.
Troy Vincent, acting as the Kermit to Goodell’s Jim Henson, handed down Brady’s suspension. And yet in his own testimony he admits that the rule about specs for inflating footballs isn’t even in the rule book given to players. It only appears in the game operations manual, which is for teams and their staffs only. And that in Vincent’s playing days, he never saw such a manual. Punishing Brady for that is like holding him accountable for knowing what’s in a set of IKEA instructions.
And as Pete Rose investigator John Dowd pointed out on CNN.com, no player has ever been suspended for “failure to cooperate” with a league investigation.
8. I’ve said from the jump that Roger Goodell is a weakling who can’t be trusted. NFL owners are starting to agree.
Goodell continues to prove to be a feckless, incompetent buffoon carrying out this over-the-top, unjustified McCarthyite slander on the Patriots not out of an effort to get to the truth or protect any shields, but in order to make up for the fact that he has repeatedly bungled real scandals so many times in the past. And in doing so, like old Tailgunner Joe, he’s committed far more egregious sins than anything his accused might have done, destroying his own career in the process.
Now according to Jim Donaldson of the ProJo, some of Goodell’s employers — NFL owners — are “uncomfortable” with his colossal bungling of Framegate and are pushing for him to end this mess he’s created and move on. Granted, they should have done so back in January when it was obvious what was going on here. And the fact that they let him and his minions run roughshod over the Patriots empowers them to do the same thing to the other 31 teams. But I won’t quibble. As John McClane said when the cops finally showed up to Nakatomi Plaza, “Welcome to the party, pal.”
So what the last week and a half has confirmed is that as much as I took the Patriots/Brady side in all this, for all my over-the-top conspiracy theories and rampant, debilitating paranoia on the subject, the truth has been far crazier than anything I actually came up with. And that’s being proven with every fact that’s come out recently.
This was always about “getting” the Patriots and Brady, that much is clear. As Roosevelt himself once put it: “I know the American people. They have a way of erecting a triumphal arch. And after the Conquering Hero as passed beneath it he may expect to receive a shower of bricks at his back at any moment.” Well I’m back, and I have their backs. Exonerate Brady.
