From all reports, the NFL followed the CBA to the letter.
Well, almost. There's enough there for attorneys to make a case. These are some pretty sharp guys. Both Adrian Peterson and Ray Rice scored legal victories, and their conduct went far beyond being accused of trying to gain a competitive edge in a game.
From all reports, the NFL followed the CBA to the letter.
Well, almost. There's enough there for attorneys to make a case. These are some pretty sharp guys. Both Adrian Peterson and Ray Rice scored legal victories, and their conduct went far beyond being accused of trying to gain a competitive edge in a game.
"From all reports"? That's not true at all.
Not just Peterson and Rice. The NFL has a terrible track record with appeals. Over the last 7 or 8 years, every single player who has appealed a suspension has scored a victory, having their suspension reduced or overturned completely. Every one. Interestingly, this is the first time as far as I can tell that Goodell has heard the appeal himself. Why is that? My guess it is because there are some things Goodell does not want out there, and he also knew that the suspension would be reduced or overturned completely if he didn't handle it himself. Brady was not going to settle for anything that included a suspension of any length, so why bother reducing it at all.
From the very first "leak" from the NFL about this supposed violation, they have been putting out misinformation about it. Add to that their awful track record with these things, and one has to wonder why anyone would trust anything coming from the NFL. That said, I completely understand the sentiments coming from everyone outside New England.
That press conference was just plain stupid. You know Belichik won't say anything. Kraft's comments seemed odd to me. The whole thing is stupid. Let it go.
right. when it's Brady getting accused, the Patriots cheat, the cloud over the SB, all of it, a six month circus at the Patriots expense, back then the whole freakin' world was talking about it. Now, a 4 game suspension and let it go?
it doesn't work like that. you weren't on the receiving end of it.
Lighten up Francis. I meant the whole issue should be ignored. I think it is silly and should be resolved/ignored. I didn't mean anything against Brady.
Sheesh, Pats fans sure can be touchy.... 😉
Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
I wonder how Bob Kraft and Tom Brady have deluded themselves into thinking they don't look like total crybabies when the whole thing looks like this:
There is no hard evidence that we deflated footballs other than, you know, bunch of deflated footballs! No one in the Patriots organization did anything wrong which is why we fired the two equipment guys, refused to cooperate with the investigation and destroyed a cell phone.
These guys should thank their lucky stars the NFL isn't MLB because it seems like there's a decent chance they'd have a lot more time than 25% of the season to talk it over with Pete Rose about what's fair and what's not.
speaking of Rose, the dude who ruled on his banishment, I think his name is Dowd, called the NFL's case "a sham".
😛
Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
I wonder how Bob Kraft and Tom Brady have deluded themselves into thinking they don't look like total crybabies when the whole thing looks like this:
Cry babies? Ha! Next time you are accused of something you did not do in front of the world wide media, found guilty and sentenced without being given the chance to mount a defense (again in front of the world wide media), and had your appeal heard and decided by the same person who acted as judge, jury and executioner in the first place (again, world wide media), let's see how much of a cry baby you end up looking like.
There is no hard evidence that we deflated footballs other than, you know, bunch of deflated footballs!
But here's the thing, they weren't found be to be deflated. They were found to be under what they *think* the set PSI was (no one can really say *for sure* what it was) by an amount consistent with the atmospheric conditions at the time (I know, that pesky science keeps getting in the way so probably better to just ignore it).
No one in the Patriots organization did anything wrong which is why we fired the two equipment guys, refused to cooperate with the investigation and destroyed a cell phone.
No one has been fired, the Patriots cooperated fully, and the cell phone is a red herring since they apparently have all the electronic data from it already.
These guys should thank their lucky stars the NFL isn't MLB because it seems like there's a decent chance they'd have a lot more time than 25% of the season to talk it over with Pete Rose about what's fair and what's not.
That's complete and utter BS. Just ask Sammy Sosa and Albert Belle and their corked bats. Do you remember what their penalties were? Go ahead and Google it and let us know.
Have a nice day! 
[Edited on 7/29/2015 by gondicar]
I wonder how Bob Kraft and Tom Brady have deluded themselves into thinking they don't look like total crybabies when the whole thing looks like this:
Cry babies? Ha! Next time you are accused of something you did not do in front of the world wide media, found guilty and sentenced without being given the chance to mount a defense (again in front of the world wide media), and had your appeal heard and decided by the same person who acted as judge, jury and executioner in the first place (again, world wide media), let's see how much of a cry baby you end up looking like.
There is no hard evidence that we deflated footballs other than, you know, bunch of deflated footballs!
But here's the thing, they weren't found be to be deflated. They were found to be under what they *think* the set PSI was (no one can really say *for sure* what it was) by an amount consistent with the atmospheric conditions at the time (I know, that pesky science keeps getting in the way so probably better to just ignore it).
No one in the Patriots organization did anything wrong which is why we fired the two equipment guys, refused to cooperate with the investigation and destroyed a cell phone.
No one has been fired, the Patriots cooperated fully, and the cell phone is a red herring since they apparently have all the electronic data from it already.
These guys should thank their lucky stars the NFL isn't MLB because it seems like there's a decent chance they'd have a lot more time than 25% of the season to talk it over with Pete Rose about what's fair and what's not.
That's complete and utter BS. Just ask Sammy Sosa and Albert Belle and their corked bats. Do you remember what their penalties were? Go ahead and Google it and let us know.
Have a nice day!
[Edited on 7/29/2015 by gondicar]
A: Easy. It's just football smack talk.
B: Yes they did fire them: http://www.hngn.com/articles/92214/20150514/nfl-news-ne-patriots-fired-jim-mcnally-john-jastremski-over-deflategate-now-claim-theyre-innocent.htm
Lastly, I am 99.99% sure Brady did NOT cooperate and have read all sorts of other incriminating items but don't feel the need to go Google that down.
Bottom line, the Pats almost cost the NFL a Blacksox sized scandal with spigot and they just got wrapped up AGAIN in something that drags the NFL's integrity through the mud. They should at least be smart enough to understand why the commissioner was this upset and handle it in private rather than draw more attention to it.
What is it with Tom Brady and deflating things? 😛
A: Easy. It's just football smack talk.
So you don't really think they are acting like crybabies? I'm all good with smack talk (obviously), but that didn't seem like that is what you were doing.
B: Yes they did fire them: http://www.hngn.com/articles/92214/20150514/nfl-news-ne-patriots-fired-jim-mcnally-john-jastremski-over-deflategate-now-claim-theyre-innocent.htm
/blockquote>
That article is wrong. They were suspended without pay (which is kinda meaningless at least for now because they are both game-day employees), and I highly suspect it because of an edict or at least pressure from the NFL office (there are published reports saying the NFL ordered it, but neither the NFL nor the Patriots have confirmed that to this point). This is the announcement that came as part of a broader statement released by the NFL back in May:‘Patriots owner Robert Kraft advised Commissioner Roger Goodell last week that Patriots employees John Jastremski and James McNally have been indefinitely suspended without pay by theclub, effective on May 6th. Neither of these individuals may be reinstated without the prior approval of NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Troy Vincent. If they are reinstated by the Patriots, Jastremski is prohibited from having any role in the preparation, supervision, or handling of footballs to be used in NFL games during the 2015 season. McNally is barred from serving as a locker room attendant for the game officials, or having any involvement with the preparation, supervision, or handling of footballs or any other equipment on game day.’
Lastly, I am 99.99% sure Brady did NOT cooperate and have read all sorts of other incriminating items but don't feel the need to go Google that down.
I get that. But you brought the MLB analogy into this, not me. Come to find out that the MLB equivalent (doctoring bats and/or balls) has never brought much more than a slap on the wrist compared to what Goodell has done here. It was a spurious comparison to make and there simply is no precedent at all in any major US sport for the type of punishment that Goodell handed out for likely having some general knowledge about ill-defined plot to doctor footballs when they can't even prove that the balls were doctored (I know, I know, that pesky science again), especially when you consider the million bucks and draft picks taken from the team. None whatsoever.
Bottom line, the Pats almost cost the NFL a Blacksox sized scandal with spigot and they just got wrapped up AGAIN in something that drags the NFL's integrity through the mud.
The NFL has given themselves a black eye, over and over again, when it comes to law and order in the NFL. As I said before, why anyone trusts the NFL or takes their version of events at face value (or even just gives them the benefit of the doubt) about this or anything else given their track record is astonishing.
They should at least be smart enough to understand why the commissioner was this upset and handle it in private rather than draw more attention to it.
Seriously? You think the Patriots are the ones that need to be told they should have handled it "in private?" That's so disconnected from reality I'm not even sure what else to say about it.
[Edited on 7/29/2015 by gondicar]
This is priceless. Now if it had been Romo who was caught...
Gondicar, my hat is off to you and your devotion to your team.
I will not be spending the kind of time you have on this, but I will say, yes, Kraft and Brady seem like crybabies but that observation is meant for them not as insult to you. As far as fired or indefinitely suspended, the question remains why did the Patriots fire/suspend them if they did nothing wrong. Also, you are giving all the benefit of the doubt to the Pats and none to the NFL. The NFL did not video tape the other teams' signals and hand them to the Pats to use to their advantage. That is all on the Pats. Lastly, Do you believe in the Conspiracy Theory that the NFL is for some reason out to get the Patriots or the Patriots version which is a Coincidence Theory that all these incriminating events just sort of happened in a way and at a time that makes them look guilty? I know there will be no persuading you and I commend your fandom, but they've been guilty before and they sure look guilty here again.
Gondicar, my hat is off to you and your devotion to your team.
I will not be spending the kind of time you have on this, but I will say, yes, Kraft and Brady seem like crybabies but that observation is meant for them not as insult to you. As far as fired or indefinitely suspended, the question remains why did the Patriots fire/suspend them if they did nothing wrong. Also, you are giving all the benefit of the doubt to the Pats and none to the NFL. The NFL did not video tape the other teams' signals and hand them to the Pats to use to their advantage. That is all on the Pats. Lastly, Do you believe in the Conspiracy Theory that the NFL is for some reason out to get the Patriots or the Patriots version which is a Coincidence Theory that all these incriminating events just sort of happened in a way and at a time that makes them look guilty? I know there will be no persuading you and I commend your fandom, but they've been guilty before and they sure look guilty here again.
Thanks? What can I say, I'm in the bunker.
Regarding Spygate, they came clean and subjected themselves to unprecedented punishment and moved on. Except no one else wanted to move on. And now most of the people who are pushing the notion that Brady should just have "admitted it" and everyone would have moved on are the same people who can't seem to move on and get over Spygate. Right.
I completely understand why people believe what they do, the NFL has won the PR battle. That's over. It's no longer about air pressure (was it ever?), it is now about a phone and that has completely shifted the narrative. Brilliant. They are obviously very good at it at the PR game, I get that. But the view from the bunker in Foxboro is quite different than from the ivory tower that every other football fan outside NE seems to be cramming themselves in to. From the bunker we see facts and not NFL PR spin. Now it goes to court where facts matter and the skeletons will come out all around and we'll see where the chips fall. Bottom line, I still believe Brady will start his vengeance tour against Sqeelers and roll on to ring #5 and the rest of the football world will go completely ape$hit (even worse than now). Woot!
Oops, almost forgot your question...
As far as fired or indefinitely suspended, the question remains why did the Patriots fire/suspend them if they did nothing wrong.
Actually, I already answered that question. Because the NFL told them to. Bob thought he had a deal with his old friend Roger. That was a huge mistake.
Just going on record to say I had nothing to do with this.
I know most people outside of NE don't really know what Spygate actually was about, but I would expect ESPN to at least get the basics right. But no, instead we just get one more example of what ESPN is part of the problem, making news rather than reporting it...
You know, the question gets asked every so often “Why would the NFL go after its best franchise and most marquee player if he didn’t do anything wrong?”
Well here’s your answer. The NFL, the 31 other franchises, the football media and most of America are so convinced the Patriots are always cheating, always pushing rules to the limits and getting away with it, that the perception has become reality for them. It’s to the point they’re chasing ghosts that never existed.
Just look at that ESPN graphic. There was no tape of the Rams’ walk-through. Never. The NFL knows it. The Rams know it. ESPN knows it. The man who reported it knows it, retracted the story and apologized for it. And yet the fiction has become fact.
So naturally when some slappy equipment guy from the Colts starts a story about the Patriots monkeying around with footballs, the public is already so invested in this myth of “a pattern of cheating” that people are willing to go along with the fairy tale.
I'm closing in on developing a serious "Kiss my ass" mentality to anyone outside New England.
I tried reasoning 😉 I tried love and compassion 😉 I tried acquiescing to lesser teams 😉 I tried to understand the point of view of those who are spotless 😉 but it boils down to this:
Kiss my ass.
I'm closing in on developing a serious "Kiss my ass" mentality to anyone outside New England.
I tried reasoning 😉 I tried love and compassion 😉 I tried acquiescing to lesser teams 😉 I tried to understand the point of view of those who are spotless 😉 but it boils down to this:
Kiss my ass.
I did an LOL at this. 
Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
Forget Brady's suspension that is yesterdays news
Those Brady's just can't keep from breaking rules 😛
Forget Brady's suspension that is yesterdays news
Those Brady's just can't keep from breaking rules 😛
you're bringing Gisele into this? and Patriots fans have no class...
whatever "the Brady's" do on their own time is nobody's business. Whatever happened to the prevailing attitude around here that "leave others alone"? y'know, mind your own business.
whatever, some people just got to hang other people's laundry out. Makes 'em feel all snugly and safe. I'm not defending the woman. I'm not making fun of her either. You stick an emoticon at the end of your post why, to lend a sort of wistful playfulness to it? Be concerned about your own woman, leave another man's alone. and you told me to grow up. How would you like someone making fun of your wife?
hey Lee
Forget Brady's suspension that is yesterdays news
Those Brady's just can't keep from breaking rules 😛
you're bringing Gisele into this? and Patriots fans have no class...
whatever "the Brady's" do on their own time is nobody's business. Whatever happened to the prevailing attitude around here that "leave others alone"? y'know, mind your own business.
whatever, some people just got to hang other people's laundry out. Makes 'em feel all snugly and safe. I'm not defending the woman. I'm not making fun of her either. You stick an emoticon at the end of your post why, to lend a sort of wistful playfulness to it? Be concerned about your own woman, leave another man's alone. and you told me to grow up. How would you like someone making fun of your wife?
hey Lee
She is a public figure it was posted in newspaper article my friend I did not write it.
These people are not your family piacere so stop taking this so seriously. You really need to get a life.
This whole matter has been taken WAY too seriously from day one. The air pressure in some footballs? C'mon. The Commissioners office is a joke. There is NO proof that Tom Brady did anything wrong, and he still has to sit for four games? He got burned, and so did the Pats.
Forget Brady's suspension that is yesterdays news
Those Brady's just can't keep from breaking rules 😛
you're bringing Gisele into this? and Patriots fans have no class...
whatever "the Brady's" do on their own time is nobody's business. Whatever happened to the prevailing attitude around here that "leave others alone"? y'know, mind your own business.
whatever, some people just got to hang other people's laundry out. Makes 'em feel all snugly and safe. I'm not defending the woman. I'm not making fun of her either. You stick an emoticon at the end of your post why, to lend a sort of wistful playfulness to it? Be concerned about your own woman, leave another man's alone. and you told me to grow up. How would you like someone making fun of your wife?
hey Lee
She is a public figure it was posted in newspaper article my friend I did not write it.
These people are not your family piacere so stop taking this so seriously. You really need to get a life.
you went and pulled it off the internet and posted it here.
who needs to get a life?
stick to the topic at hand. You're good at it.
😛
John Dowd, attorney, former special counsel to ex-MLB commissioner A. Bartlett Giamatti and author of the Dowd Report that led to Pete Rose’s lifetime ban from baseball, went on a Boston radio show Wednesday to give his take on Tom Brady‘s situation.
Dowd read the Wells Report and said he had trouble nailing down what the report itself was saying.
“As they say in the ‘Seinfeld’ show, it’s all about nothing,” Dowd said. “I just could not figure out what it was about, and I read the Wells Report, and I read the subsequent studies that sort of shredded the science in the report, but I couldn’t find anywhere where Tom Brady directed anybody to do anything. So I’ve sort of been troubled watching this thing and how it’s been put together and so I’ve not seen a basis for the punishment of Tom Brady, and I didn’t think the Wells Report was very well done.”
He also said the way the league has thus far handled the issue of Brady destroying his cell phone was an “ambush,” and that the NFL “blindsided” him.
“[Brady] explained, as I understand it, that he couldn’t turn over his phone, but he would do everything else to cooperate and that was apparently acceptable to Wells,” Dowd said. “I mean, Wells noted in his report it was not helpful, but he didn’t charge him or recommend he be charged with failing to cooperate with the commissioner, which can be a big deal. You don’t cooperate with the commissioner in baseball, and you’re going to sit down, you’re not going to play ball, so it’s a very serious charge, which was not made. So Tom went up on appeal and continued to cooperate, continued to try to get the messages. They had already concluded that they had enough so I don’t understand.
“And apparently in some conversation, he described how his assistant handled his phone, and my own theory is that they had taken such a beating on the Wells Report, that it had been shredded by all kinds of experts, that they had to grab something to save face. And as you know, this commissioner has had great difficulty with his disciplinary decisions, and so that’s just my theory. I don’t know if that’s a fact or not, but I do know one thing. It was very unfair to cite that phone and its destruction as evidence of consciousness of guilt or obstruction of justice. He was never charged with that, and fair play and due process require that you receive notice of that and you have a chance to answer that, so that’s what struck me.”
Dowd noted that everything regarding the phone read as though the NFL was just looking to find a way to get to Brady.
“It appears that they were trying very hard to find something adverse to Tom, and because of the weak standard, the weak facts, the lousy science, etc.,” he said. “The other thing, if I were commissioner, or counsel to the commissioner, and given how controversial that Wells Report was, I would make sure the public got an answer and a response about all the science, but it doesn’t look like Goodell looked at that critically at all, and that’s troubling to me.
“The one thing we did in the Rose case was everything we did that was recorded was handed over to the Rose lawyers and to the public, including all of my notes and all my colleagues’ notes. There was nothing that wasn’t put out there, because a lot’s riding on it, particularly the confidence of the public and the fans who are so important to this game.”
Dowd took issue with the fact that the standard for this case is “more probable than not” when his report was based on the standard of “beyond a reasonable doubt” as well.
“The idea that you would injure someone’s career or affect it in some way, some adverse way based on more probable than not is nonsense,” he said. “I don’t know such a standard in the law or anywhere else so that was very troubling to me.”
This whole matter has been taken WAY too seriously from day one. The air pressure in some footballs? C'mon. The Commissioners office is a joke. There is NO proof that Tom Brady did anything wrong, and he still has to sit for four games? He got burned, and so did the Pats.
It is another case of the NFL and Goodell mucking up another issue. Has this guy gotten anything right in the last couple of years? Every suspension he has handed down seems to have been a clustermuck.
That being said I agree the NFL's case is based on circumstantial evidence at best and I think if this had gone to a jury trial Brady would have been acquitted.
But Brady and the Pats had their share of screw ups in this whole affair which has helped the NFL's case in the court of public opinion.
Now it will be interesting to see how this plays out in Federal court if it ever gets there.
Question for Gondy? I don't follow this anywhere near the attention to detail you so do you know if Kraft actually had some type of assurance from Goddell that they would take it easy on Brady if he did not fight the fine and loss of draft picks? or was he assuming this based on his friendship with Goodell?
Forget Brady's suspension that is yesterdays news
Those Brady's just can't keep from breaking rules 😛
you're bringing Gisele into this? and Patriots fans have no class...
whatever "the Brady's" do on their own time is nobody's business. Whatever happened to the prevailing attitude around here that "leave others alone"? y'know, mind your own business.
whatever, some people just got to hang other people's laundry out. Makes 'em feel all snugly and safe. I'm not defending the woman. I'm not making fun of her either. You stick an emoticon at the end of your post why, to lend a sort of wistful playfulness to it? Be concerned about your own woman, leave another man's alone. and you told me to grow up. How would you like someone making fun of your wife?
hey Lee
She is a public figure it was posted in newspaper article my friend I did not write it.
These people are not your family piacere so stop taking this so seriously. You really need to get a life.
you went and pulled it off the internet and posted it here.
who needs to get a life?
stick to the topic at hand. You're good at it.
😛
I read it in the paper and posted it here. She is Brady's wife and thought some might find it interesting and a distraction from you whining and beating the dead horse of Brady's suspension.
Unlike you I am not treating this whole affair as if one of my family members is on trial. Football is a game my friend not life and death. You really need to step away from the keyboard and get some perspective.
And now that I know how interested you are in how Giselle makes out with the French authorities for wearing a burka I will be sure to post daily updates for you. 😉 😛
[Edited on 7/30/2015 by Bill_Graham]
[Edited on 7/30/2015 by Bill_Graham]
I did step away. Went to Iggy's down in Warwick for some fried clams.
I will agree with you that it's football. Entertainment...but Bill, it's tough to describe what it's been like as a Pats fan the last 6 months. As a die hard fan, it hasn't been easy. Still, I don't need or want sympathy, everyone outside of New England can kiss my ass.
Forget Brady's suspension that is yesterdays news
Those Brady's just can't keep from breaking rules 😛
you're bringing Gisele into this? and Patriots fans have no class...
whatever "the Brady's" do on their own time is nobody's business. Whatever happened to the prevailing attitude around here that "leave others alone"? y'know, mind your own business.
whatever, some people just got to hang other people's laundry out. Makes 'em feel all snugly and safe. I'm not defending the woman. I'm not making fun of her either. You stick an emoticon at the end of your post why, to lend a sort of wistful playfulness to it? Be concerned about your own woman, leave another man's alone. and you told me to grow up. How would you like someone making fun of your wife?
hey Lee
She is a public figure it was posted in newspaper article my friend I did not write it.
These people are not your family piacere so stop taking this so seriously. You really need to get a life.
you went and pulled it off the internet and posted it here.
who needs to get a life?
stick to the topic at hand. You're good at it.
😛
I read it in the paper and posted it here. She is Brady's wife and thought some might find it interesting and a distraction from you whining and beating the dead horse of Brady's suspension.
Unlike you I am not treating this whole affair as if one of my family members is on trial. Football is a game my friend not life and death. You really need to step away from the keyboard and get some perspective.
And now that I know how interested you are in how Giselle makes out with the French authorities for wearing a burka I will be sure to post daily updates for you. 😉 😛
[Edited on 7/30/2015 by Bill_Graham]
[Edited on 7/30/2015 by Bill_Graham]
nice edit. and I'm the obnoxious one. 😉
nice edit. and I'm the obnoxious one. 😉
Aren't we all?
Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
Forget Brady's suspension that is yesterdays news
Those Brady's just can't keep from breaking rules 😛
you're bringing Gisele into this? and Patriots fans have no class...
whatever "the Brady's" do on their own time is nobody's business. Whatever happened to the prevailing attitude around here that "leave others alone"? y'know, mind your own business.
whatever, some people just got to hang other people's laundry out. Makes 'em feel all snugly and safe. I'm not defending the woman. I'm not making fun of her either. You stick an emoticon at the end of your post why, to lend a sort of wistful playfulness to it? Be concerned about your own woman, leave another man's alone. and you told me to grow up. How would you like someone making fun of your wife?
hey Lee
She is a public figure it was posted in newspaper article my friend I did not write it.
These people are not your family piacere so stop taking this so seriously. You really need to get a life.
you went and pulled it off the internet and posted it here.
who needs to get a life?
stick to the topic at hand. You're good at it.
😛
I read it in the paper and posted it here. She is Brady's wife and thought some might find it interesting and a distraction from you whining and beating the dead horse of Brady's suspension.
Unlike you I am not treating this whole affair as if one of my family members is on trial. Football is a game my friend not life and death. You really need to step away from the keyboard and get some perspective.
And now that I know how interested you are in how Giselle makes out with the French authorities for wearing a burka I will be sure to post daily updates for you. 😉 😛
[Edited on 7/30/2015 by Bill_Graham]
[Edited on 7/30/2015 by Bill_Graham]
nice edit. and I'm the obnoxious one. 😉
That has to be one of the most ironic statements I have ever read on this forum and one of the funniest.
Question for Gondy? I don't follow this anywhere near the attention to detail you so do you know if Kraft actually had some type of assurance from Goddell that they would take it easy on Brady if he did not fight the fine and loss of draft picks? or was he assuming this based on his friendship with Goodell?
I don't know that they had a quid pro quo deal, but yesterday Kraft sure made it sound like he had an expectation that not taking the NFL to court over the team penalties and suspending the two ball attendants would have a positive impact on Brady's appeal. He clearly feels betrayed by RG and the league and sounds like the gloves are coming back off.
